Ways to fix BRD and MCH in a realistic way

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Originally Posted by meldon90

Nope, its not, their main bonus are the damn songs, why bards cant understand this?

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A tank, a healer, one dps and some songs wont get you through much - as it is right now with a bard in the party

I think there are several things to take into account:
- I choose the bard for it's mobility, and bard was the only class that SE decided to take it's paradigm and change it completelly, we were the "run and gun" class but now we are a mage with bow, and what did we win, a marginal increase on our dps, only when there are no AoE around.

-The songs are an important characteristic of the bard, but you know what, we are the only class (if i´m not wrong) who get penalized by using it's buff, so we already hit less than other dps class, and if we want to use our songs, we hit even less.

-We use a DPS spot, some people say that the bard are needed by it's songs, so i think i should stand waiting for some heler with low mana or someone with low TP.

-The amount of time we need to be singing is pretty low, as a non hardcore player i think i'ts almost never.

Make Songs and Support raid wide and bring in actual raiding content. <3

God the hell we would raise. Only would need two Bards to actively cycle Requiem and Ballad. Every other slot filled with casters. I wanna see it happen, lol.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I was going to point out the same thing lol.

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Its just mind boggling isnt it? Even Bards say their DPS should be low because "oh but we're support."

No, no we are not. There is no support. There are support abilities which all DPS have. Thats like saying WAR should be horrible tanks because they DPS a little better now than other tanks. What?!?! No... their role is tank, they need to and should match the other tanks as best they can. Apparently that only sounds silly when its not BRD and MCH. /tableflip

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Originally Posted by Kayote

If thats true then we need a melee buff songs, maybe some avoidance, +crit, +accuracy... you know, buffs. Actual buffs. Because some crappy 10% magic damage debuff (no its actually -resistance)that only helps with casters, and resource regens that youll never need with experienced players, sounds like a whole lot of bulldookie for a class thats not only does less damage while buffing the group, it also takes a another nerf by design.

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Foe Requiem does not cost the Bard DpS; it is a roughly 11% increase in caster DpS and you are guaranteed at the least 2 per 8 man content. Healer DpS is being factored in for Alexander Savage so FR will help in there.

Paladin has increased MT and OT DpS, but little effective way to recover TP. Effective use of Armies Peon will likely extend their ability to DpS by more than 25% while the Bard temporarily loses 15% damage output and tank DpS got a lot better than it was at 50.

Do not assume that standards set in 2.55 when Raid content was overgeared will be the same when Alexander Savage is released.

I guess I might as well finish with this since this thread has derailed too much already.

My original argument was that many Bards chose the class for its gameplay, which is a mobile run-and-gunner. And that's not a bad reason because being able to move while attacking and weaving in oGCDs rapidly allowed us to still pump out acceptable DPS even with our low damage. Also, there are plenty of people who like ranged combat, but absolutely dislike standing still to cast spells, or are just not fans of magic in general. That, too, is a completely valid and fair reason for choosing Bard pre-3.0. Songs are just a bonus, but to us who've actually mained Bard and painstakingly learned it till 60, our mobility and speed still defined our core gameplay. Chances are, bards never even use songs outside of dire situations in hardcore raids. And that's like what? Only around 1% of a Bard's total gameplay time (solo-play, questing, FATES, and other non-raid playtime included).

Yet there were people like Meldon, who argued that Bards should have their mobility taken away because it's "overpowered," although I already proved why it's not. Then there are people like Musha, who argued that Bards should have their mobility taken away because they apparently should be nothing more but TP and MP pots, and attacking and movement is irrelevant, despite the fact that those are integral components of Bards. I have also posted plenty of good reasons why that shouldn't be the case, although somehow that derailed the topic into something else.

In the end upon looking at these people's characters, none of them even have Bard leveled at 60, or even at 52, where they learn Minuet, the root cause of all these outrages. That is a red flag right there. Personally speaking, I believe you should only comment on these class feedback threads when you've already mastered a class's core mechanics. In other words, have reached the level cap and spent a considerable amount of time in it. Because even seasoned Bards demand proof and statistics from other seasoned Bards when they make unpopular opinion about Minuet or the 3.0 Bard changes.

If experienced career Bards are already being asked to prove their credibility or to show parse numbers or number-crunching data when defending Minuet, how much more credibility, do you think, does a non-Bard with only a Lv. 20 archer, for example, has when making baseless claims such as "You're not DPS, you are just jukeboxes. Taking away your mobility is A-OK" or "You don't need mobility/casting times doesn't break your gameplay, lrn2play your job." They have no credibility at all. They have no clue what they are talking about, yet they are mouthing off anyways.

That is my ultimate gripe with threads like these, and why I comment on these kinds of people. I'll state it again. If you don't even have the class at max level, you have not spent enough time with it, and hence all of your claims are baseless and lack credibility. In other words, null and void. This is a PSA to non-Bards. Just please refrain from making smart-aleck comments in these threads, because your ignorance is only adding fuel to the fire.

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Originally Posted by Intellion

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as much as you do, seeing as songs aren't as important as moving. which blm has clearly over proven is not true at all.

the only ignorance is the fact that you add nothing to the argument but you're wrong you're not lvl 60 like me.

wanna have a real discussion then add too it.

don't just pretend you're better without adding anything to the table.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Foe Requiem does not cost the Bard DpS; it is a roughly 11% increase in caster DpS and you are guaranteed at the least 2 per 8 man content. Healer DpS is being factored in for Alexander Savage so FR will help in there.

Paladin has increased MT and OT DpS, but little effective way to recover TP. Effective use of Armies Peon will likely extend their ability to DpS by more than 25% while the Bard temporarily loses 15% damage output and tank DpS got a lot better than it was at 50.

Do not assume that standards set in 2.55 when Raid content was overgeared will be the same when Alexander Savage is released.

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Requiem is elemental resistance reduction, meaning it has pretty much no impact on melee. Doesn't exactly scream all around useful in any given situation. The point of the matter is that they might be great for progression, but they're practically useless everywhere else. Why bring a gimped job when you can easily get a different one to better fill the role (DPS) for well over 90% of the game at any given moment? LOL! It's the fact that people view the situational songs/support, which are hindered by very limited upkeep (and further hindered if using a regen song), as enough reason to permanently keep the damage low, that makes the situation horrible to accept. If the support was universal and applicable to all situations (8man, 24man, 4man, solo), and provided equal benefit throughout, then that would be a totally different story. As is, it does not... not even close. This is coming from someone who has played support roles in games for years, including a long-time BRD in FFXI... probably the best example of how justifiable a support player can be to take up a party slot.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

what you don't get is your dps doesn't matter your boost to the other dps do.

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Resource recovery is not a direct DPS boost. You'd have to give BRD +Attack, +Crit and +Determination before you can even make that claim. This said, Paeon and Ballad are essentially raid cooldowns, which is why they're a nice thing to have but are not definitive of BRD gameplay. They're basically our version of Bloodlust/Heroism, except Blizzard and the WoW's playerbase haven't convinced themselves that Shaman DPS needs to be below the tanks to justify them having those buffs.

And BRD DPS does matter because if they're in the group, their contribution to DPS checks will determine whether you see the next phase or wipe.

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mobility has nothing to do with it.

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Mobility is precipitated by the fact BRD is built around instants and off-GCD skills. It's what allows them to keep up the damage despite dealing less damage per skill, since they can keep attacking while everyone else is moving in and out of AoEs.

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let's see you beat a raid without a bard when your tank/melee dps are out of tp and your healers are out of mp, and you are doing zero damage and dying because noone is getting heals.

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When DPS is high enough, the value of resource recovery plummets since you won't need it unless someone messes up on mechanics and drains the healer's MP (even then, I'd argue that things are salvageable seeing that casters have been given more ways to restore their own MP).

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Resource recovery is not a direct DPS boost. You'd have to give BRD +Attack, +Crit and +Determination before you can even make that claim. This said, Paeon and Ballad are essentially raid cooldowns, which is why they're a nice thing to have but are not definitive of BRD gameplay. They're basically our version of Bloodlust/Heroism, except Blizzard and the WoW's playerbase haven't convinced themselves that Shaman DPS needs to be below the tanks to justify them having those buffs.

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of course it is a direct boost. without the resource recovery everything stops, dps and heals. unless you go into these fight in bis (which has been showed earlier in the thread) heals will run out of mp and need a ballad and dps/tanks will need tp recovered. without this resource recovery damage drops tremendously.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

And BRD DPS does matter because if they're in the group, their contribution to DPS checks will determine whether you see the next phase or wipe.
Mobility is precipitated by the fact BRD is built around instants and off-GCD skills. It's what allows them to keep up the damage despite dealing less damage per skill, since they can keep attacking while everyone else is moving in and out of AoEs.

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bard dps matter in the base fact of are they doing the bare minimum. yes for all current content that is currently out bards can do the bare minimum.

bards can do the same damage moving or not moving. we will use blackmage as the example they would have no dps if movement was as required as everyone seems to believe.

yes the instant casts allow bard to keep dpsing where blackmages can't, but wm is not meant to be used 100% of the time which once again everyone is trying to say. the down time of aoes is not very large at all.

mobility has little impact on them. you know when aoes are coming it's all scripted.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

When DPS is high enough, the value of resource recovery plummets since you won't need it unless someone messes up on mechanics and drains the healer's MP (even then, I'd argue that things are salvageable seeing that casters have been given more ways to restore their own MP).

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dps will not be high enough unless you already have done the content and out gear it. in which case you're right certain things aren't needed like 2 heals 2 tanks.

This whole BRD thing these days has left me very surprised by the number of people who are, seemingly content, that their raid slot is secured primarily by nature of their ability to be a glorified battery

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Originally Posted by ParanoidHobo

This whole BRD thing these days has left me very surprised by the number of people who are, seemingly content, that their raid slot is secured primarily by nature of their ability to be a glorified battery

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It's more like acceptance not contentment. We've always been a 'battery' mid-tp/mp stress fights anyways.

But yeah, the reality is that there's no way we're going to be going from 50~99 without changes to our playstyle or rotation anyways so rather than fight about it, we're trying to change with the flow. We're getting WM fixed def and honestly if stuff gets fixed then we can change properly.

It's not solely on us doing tp/mp regen but that is definitely a strong reason we're picked, I heard machinist isn't as strong in that department though so.... I don't know but I definitely hope you guys get fixed too, so that you can toss out some decent dps.

So in any non-premade party with too much bards can fail a dps check? and a 4-man dungeon, with two bards, why make things slowers just for "they doing the bare minimun"?

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

bards can do the same damage moving or not moving. we will use blackmage as the example they would have no dps if movement was as required as everyone seems to believe.
wm is not meant to be used 100%

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There are some problems with that:
- yes, let's compare Bards with Black mages... and even if you can make dps dodging AoE, the dps gain you get with WM is MARGINAL even in PERFECT CONDITIONS,WM is useless.
-and yes, is meant to be used 100% of the time, or like an opener. Reasons: 3s cast.

-they changed in 180° the bard's paradigm because of reasons, SE cut our legs and what we get back, basically nothing.
Bards are meant to be DPS and not just a jukebox who spits buff,and we are already heavily penalized by using our songs, there's no reason to hinder our dps even further.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

God the hell we would raise. Only would need two Bards to actively cycle Requiem and Ballad. Every other slot filled with casters. I wanna see it happen, lol.

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You just described some fights in FFXI, haha.

Oh, the days of three bard alliance wide rotations for Dynamis Lord and Kirin!

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Originally Posted by micheleuno

-they changed in 180° the bard's paradigm because of reasons, SE cut our legs and what we get back, basically nothing.
Bards are meant to be DPS and not just a jukebox who spits buff,and we are already heavily penalized by using our songs, there's no reason to hinder our dps even further.

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The problems with WM and GR have already been recognized. It is likely that someone a SE made a mistake calculating the effects of the two abilities on DpS. It looks like the formulas they used forgot to factor in the DpS gained from auto-attacks. All they need to do to fix the to abilities is to increases the stances damage bonuses to the point where a Bard/Machinist in WM/GR is doing 120% the damage as one that is not in the stances.

From my own point of view Bard strong point is their mobility, they can move without losing their DPS. Yes I agree their DPS is not the strongest but their mobility is their biggest asset. Do you know why Bard are assigned to take Blue fire Ice Buff and intercept the Red fire Ball during T12? Because they can move and DPS at the same time, they are "Helper" or "Assistance" in many ways not just from song only.

That's why many Bards are mad when they lost their mobility plus their auto attack are taken away from it. Yes we can switch off our "Wanderer's Minuet", but we can't use our new skill.

I honestly feel suck when I need to disable my new skill for the sake of mobility while seeing all other Job can use it freely.

I cant pew-pew while moving.

Ok Musashi, based on your "understanding" (sarcasm) of the BRD class, and I challenge all BRDS to do this. when in a party, all brds should just sing, no dps. I mean, hey, what dps we put out is either not needed, or minimal anyways. See how far the group gets. By the same token, Tanks should not attack, just flash/provoke and absorbs dmg. Healers, no throwing stone or whatever, just heal. if no one needs healing, just do nothing until they do. Melee, just stand there and attack. Because apparently, only BRD is supposed to do only one thing only, which is sing, which isn't even what they are listed as.

My point is that its the UTILITY of the BRD that made the class after 2.0. Yes, we werent the top dps, yes we weren't the best support and yes we moved a bit. But its the fact that we could adapt that made the class. We were kinda the jack of all trades. We would pop a song to help with mp/tp, then do some dps, maybe hit a switch here or there, kite some enemies, even pull, all while being mobile. Thats what it means to have UTILITY. As of now, BRDS utility has taken a huge hit, and people that don't play the brd class can't understand that.

Now not one BRD has said they want to do same dps as melee constantly. Yes, we can burst. And we were ok with that. So stop saying we want to be on par with melee. We want to be on par with how far we were behind melee dps in 2.0. We want consistency. I mean, im hearing that there ave been plenty of TANKS doing more DPS than BRD and MCH, doing more dps than a dps role. BRD is the ONLY class/job that had its mechanics totally changed. Its like them making casters have to be in melee range to pull of spells while keeping the disadvantage of having to not move while casting. Or having tanks be completely mobile while trying to keep enmity. Its taking the core concept of the class, which is their mobility/utility, not just singing for 10% of a fight, and changing it.

And finally, I created this thread to inspire BRDS and even non BRDS to come up with creative ways to fix the BRD/MCH problems(RNG for MCH-WTF was SE thinking). So instead of coming here and talking about BRDS being TP/MP mobile pots(which you shouldn't be happy about, cause if thats the case, people won't play as them and then you won't even have that in your group), give ideas for how you want SE to come to a compromise for a fix.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

But yeah, the reality is that there's no way we're going to be going from 50~99 without changes to our playstyle or rotation anyways so rather than fight about it, we're trying to change with the flow.

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This much is obvious, but the key thing to remember is that the additions should be cohesive to the rest of the desing. If you're going to make major changes, then those have to retroactively affect the way the job grows. WM does neither.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

This much is obvious, but the key thing to remember is that the additions should be cohesive to the rest of the desing. If you're going to make major changes, then those have to retroactively affect the way the job grows. WM does neither.

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Yes, and also, why only change one class? change them all at the same time. I think they just dropped the ball and just need to go back and fix it. Like i said, if BRD is so important to endgame only because of their songs, then people will quit using them and you who think its their only viable reason to be in raid groups will see that we are not needed to sing songs, proving us right in the long run.

Some ideas that I would've tried with Bard/Mechanist:

Wanderer's minuet, basically increases them to on-level of Caster DPS. In exchange, it constantly saps the bard's MP until it's 0. At 0 MP, the song is maintained,
but there is no way to restore MP from this point.

or perhaps...

Wanderer's Minuet, make it oGCD - making it possible to weave in and out of the stance easily between GCD's. This would, in my opinion, greatly enhance the effect of the skill and make it a lot more fluid for bards to use and stance dance between Caster and Mobility. No CD, no cast time, oGCD buff that changes you to a caster's stance means that you could enhance yourself without the current GCD penalty you suffer.

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

Yes, and also, why only change one class? change them all at the same time. I think they just dropped the ball and just need to go back and fix it. Like i said, if BRD is so important to endgame only because of their songs, then people will quit using them and you who think its their only viable reason to be in raid groups will see that we are not needed to sing songs, proving us right in the long run.

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I don't mind them changing certain classes and giving QoL changes to others. My beef with what they've done to BRD is just lack of cohesiveness with the way BRD has played. To indulge a fancy I had, here's something I came up with:

Abilities

lv52 Invocation - Calls forth the effect of a song. 30 second cooldown.
--If used while Army Paeon is active => Cancels song effect of Paeon and turns it into a buff with a 24 second duration. Places Army Paeon on a 2 minute cooldown.
--If used while Mage Ballad is active => Cancels song effect of Ballad and turns it into a buff with a 24 second duration. Places Mage Ballad on a 2 minute cooldown.
--If used while Foe Requiem is active => Cancels song effect of Requiem and causes your next shot to apply the Requiem debuff on target enemy for 24 second. Places Foe Requiem on a 2 minute cooldown.
--If used while Wanderer's Minuet is active => Calls forth a special effect depending on which verse of the minuet is active.
lv54 Wanderer's Minuet - Chant the Wanderer's Minuet. Progresses as weapon skills are used. (Note: WM starts with access to verses I and II). Cannot be used while other songs with other songs.
lv56 Wanderer's Minuet III & IV - Grants access to verses III and IV of the wanderer's minuet.
lv58 Sidewinder - Delivers an attack with a potency of 150. Additional effect: If the target is suffering from a Venomous Bite or Windbite effect inflicted by you, Sidewinder's potency is increased to 250 for one effect, or 350 for both.
lv60 Wanderer's Minuet V - Grants access to verse V of the wanderer's minuet.

Wanderer's Minuet I + Invocation - Increases damage of the next weapon skill, but triples it's TP cost. (The buff would be called Careful Aim)
Wanderer's Minuet II + Invocation - Reduces target enemy's resistance to piercing attacks for 20 seconds.
Wanderer's Minuet III + Invocation - Refreshes the duration of Windbite and Venomous Bite on target.
Wanderer's Minuet IV + Invocation - Increases target ally's parry rate for 20 seconds.
Wanderer's Minuet V + Invocation - Your next single-target shot places a DoT effect that deals damage equal to the damage of the shot over 30 seconds (ex: You hit WM V+Invocation, then use Heavy Shot on the mob, dealing 300 damage. The mob gets a DoT on it that deals 300 damage over 30 seconds)

Mechanics

So, the deal with this version of WM is that it's a progressive buff of sorts. Unlike Wrath, however, you don't stack it to max then consume it. Instead, you pick what verse you want to trigger with Invocation and get a specific effect. For example, if you're looking to refresh your DoTs, you know you have to pop WM (starting you at verse I), perform two weapon skills to progress you to verse III, then hit Invocation. If you want to just get the Careful Aim buff, then you pop WM and hit Invocation.

To make things clear, when you first get WM at lv54, you can only progress into the second verse (so you pop it, hit a weapon skill to progress to verse II, and will go back to verse I if you use a weapon skill after that). At lv56 you'd get access to verses III and IV of the minuet instead of an ability with its own icon, and to access verse III and IV you'd need to pop WM then use the number of weapon skills needed to progress into those verses. At lv60 you wouldn't get a new skill with its own icon, but instead the ability for WM to progress into verse V.

On the "cancels song effect" stuff, by this I mean that in the case of the first three songs (requiem, ballad, paeon), you'd still activate those songs if you want the continuous effect that drains your MP. Invocation gives you the option of turning those into temporary buffs for situations where you may not be needed to perpetually keep those buffs up. I'm not sure if 24 seconds is long enough, but the idea is that by using Invocation you'd apply a shorter duration buff/debuff while allowing longer uptime doing full DPS; you'd still get more bang for your buck from paeon/ballad/requiem if you let them consume your entire MP pool.

Progression and Applications

Basic Buff Progression: This is a nooby rotation and how WM would interact with it.

Click on Wanderer's Minuet (you gain Wanderer's Minuet I) => Click Heavy Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet II) => Click Straight Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet III) => Click Venomous Bite (you gain Wanderer's Minuet IV) => Click Windbite (you gain Wanderer's Minuet V) => Click on Bloodletter (you gain Wanderer's Minuet I)

Application 1: You want to show off your DPS

Click on Wanderer's Minuet (you gain Wanderer's Minuet I) => Click Invocation (Invocation consumes Wanderer's Minuet I and grants you the Careful Aim buff)

Application 2: You want to give the DRK in your party +parry to help him get procs.

Click on Wanderer's Minuet (you gain Wanderer's Minuet I) => Click Heavy Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet II) => Click Straight Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet III) => Click Venomous Bite (you gain Wanderer's Minuet IV) => Click Invocation while targeting the DRK tank (Invocation consumes Wanderer's Minuet IV and your tank gains the +parry buff)

Application 3: You want to renew DoT durations without reusing them

Click on Wanderer's Minuet (you gain Wanderer's Minuet I) => Click Heavy Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet II) => Click Straight Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet III) => Click Invocation while targeting the mob affected by your DoTs (Invocation consumes Wanderer's Minuet III and refreshes the duration of your DoTs on the mob)

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Mind you that this is something I just made up, so I haven't taken the time to balance it. I simply want to prove a point by showing you can build on BRD's 2.0 gameplay without changing everything about it.

@ Duelle; the concept seems cool to me but... I don't really think I'd play bard anymore if it was like that... :x

I like the verse thing and not making it stack and use all at once. It makes us play the job different from other BRDS and allows even more utility in group settings. I also want something that, if it doesn't increase potency, at least increase crit rate and dmg. Like someone else said, accuracy is key in real life archery. So with accuracy comes well placed, critical hits. I wouldn't mind that if I activate WM, my potency might not improve but my chances of crit hit and dmg would. Kinda turn me into a sniper...I can dig that

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Originally Posted by Lillia

@ Duelle; the concept seems cool to me but... I don't really think I'd play bard anymore if it was like that... :x

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The intent was more to have something you can plan to weave into your rotation while keeping the instant-cast-mobile nature of BRD intact. I'm sure there are kinks that need to be dealt with to make it worthy of implementation, but it's just an idea I put together on the spot. I will admit inspiration came from how Cyan's sword skills were implemented in FFVI.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

The intent was more to have something you can plan to weave into your rotation while keeping the instant-cast-mobile nature of BRD intact. I'm sure there are kinks that need to be dealt with to make it worthy of implementation, but it's just an idea I put together on the spot.

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That's actually not why I wouldn't.... It's just really reliant on songs that way and as much as I love being utility, I also don't feel great about us being tied to singing songs more than we are right now as it would force more down time unless invocation isn't a song..? then wanderer's I may also use a lot of TP depending on the skill used when under that effect right..? Idk... it needs a little work as you said..

besides we were nerfed for being too useful with rain of death and hawk eye before, wouldn't that concept just defeat that logic? Idk... it just seems like we'd be given too much and be really tied to repeatedly using a song under quite a few situations....

Edit: I reached my daily limit, so I'm going to just edit here.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Well, yeah. That's sort of the point. I figure a BRD could save it for Sidewinder with both DoTs up (or at least be faced with the choice of trippling TP cost for bigger burst or waiting until hitting verse V for the additional DoT). Also keep in mind Invocation has a 30 second cooldown, so it's not something you can really spam.
Old Rain of Death lowered enemy attack, though. Verse II would put BRD in line with what DRG does (DRG would still be able to refresh the duration while BRD would not since the duration is shorter than the cooldown on Invoke). Verse IV could be changed into something else, but I had just read a thread about how DRKs don't have enough +Parry when I came up with the effects for it.

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But then if we're in I for too long due to Invoc being down then how will we maintain our tp until II? I'm not trying to poke holes into your concept, I think it's a good one... I'm just a little wary on it.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

That's actually not why I wouldn't.... It's just really reliant on songs that way and as much as I love being utility, I also don't feel great about being tied to singing songs more than we do right now as it would force more down time.. then wanderer's I may also use a lot of TP depending on the skill right..?

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Well, yeah. That's sort of the point. I figure a BRD could save it for Sidewinder with both DoTs up (or at least be faced with the choice of trippling TP cost for bigger burst or waiting until hitting verse V for the additional DoT). Also keep in mind Invocation has a 30 second cooldown, so it's not something you can really spam.

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besides we were nerfed for being too useful with rain of death and hawk eye before, wouldn't that concept just defeat that logic? Idk... it just seems like we'd be given too much and be really tied to repeatedly using a song under quite a few situations....

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Old Rain of Death lowered enemy attack, though. Verse II would put BRD in line with what DRG does (DRG would still be able to refresh the duration while BRD would not since the duration is shorter than the cooldown on Invoke). Verse IV could be changed into something else, but I had just read a thread about how DRKs don't have enough +Parry when I came up with the effects for it.

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...c79b08edff54a8

There you go, cleric stance for dummies. Happy?

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...c79b08edff54a8

There you go, cleric stance for dummies. Happy?

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Doesn't deal with the underlying issues of that design decision, but oh well.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Doesn't deal with the underlying issues of that design decision, but oh well.

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Which is that BRD can burst damage every minute at a cost of not running around the group like a 3 year old with ADHD?

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Which is that BRD can burst damage every minute at a cost of not running around the group like a 3 year old with ADHD?

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I was referring to the fact WM is still a mechanic shoehorned into a job built around entirely different gameplay. I'll concede that the changes were made on very short notice and do commend the devs for implementing them.