Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

It's more like they don't have a choice. It's either that or never finding a group, cuz NOBODY wants them.
N O B O D Y.

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Tell that to the multiple FCoB learning parties I've jumped into or made with a friend or two. Plenty of us are willing to help, just not when we're trying to farm. Lying and disrupting our farm runs is a great way to end up on the blacklist of the very same people that are willing to help. It's nothing short of shooting yourself in the foot.

http://www.gamesprays.com/files/reso...55_preview.png

Also don't be an asshole to people while playing videogames.

So...Who bare's the popcorn this time? :eek:

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

So...Who bare's the popcorn this time? :eek:

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https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...46f614c878.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

So...Who bare's the popcorn this time? :eek:

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Okay I know grammar nazi's are the most hated people on the internet, but c'mon man...

I challenge every one here saying casuals are "victimizing themselves" to log in, and look at your PF for any learning parties for any content that's not T12 or 13.
If you find any, post screenshot here.

Please, do this. Let's see how many we find across servers. Do you guys accept my challenge?

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Originally Posted by Anna_Lannis

This isn't "victim-thinking". Awnsering the "what I can do to get better" isn't always easy, neither is actually doing it. Sometimes it's not always available. Do you know how many homeless military they are that can't get jobs? No one wants to lie around and do nothing, but sometimes their isn't always a right now. Failing after repeated attempts with no one to go for help leads people to disrepair. Anyone who couldn't find a party in FFXI will agree with me.

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Yet that didn't stop me from sitting in Jeuno with my flag up for hours on end.

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Originally Posted by Anna_Lannis

I hate people who make "coffee is for closers" posts to get popularity that they can't actually backup. These arguments are used by cowards; the moment you disagree or find fault with an argument like this, you are wrong, lazy, scrub, etc. "Oh look the OP is right, look how badass she is." Anyone can say this, you need to actually be constructive about it (which you aren't) and actually back it up (not expecting pick up groups to farm your vanity mount so you can trot about in Mor Dohna like a princess on your My Little Pony to show you helped all the "little people" to feed your bloated ego).

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I wouldn't have tried to argue with you either but if you're going to continue a tirade, why not? You're right, right now isn't always available. Sure your learning party may not fill up but you can meet people while you wait. Talk about the fight, learn from one another and friend each other while you wait for others. If they have to go then the next time you're setting up a learning party, you can look for them. The reason these things rarely get off the ground is because no one wants to join a 1/8 party and sit on their hands when other possibilities may arise. If you can start that same learning party with 5/8 people, it has a much higher chance of filling. Is it actual fight experience? No. Is it a step in the process, sure it can be.

Are you joining DF groups? Yes you're going to meet people who are jerks but so what, they don't really owe you anything and words on the internet aren't going to kill you. Are you going to meet people who are worse than you and stymie your progress? Absolutely but if you bitch about them doesn't that make you something of a hypocrite? Are you studying videos and trying to learn the ins and outs of the fight while you wait or are you sitting on your hands getting upset? If you know what to expect when you enter, then all that matters is execution. You just need to see the whole fight once or twice to set up a clear party which has a better chance of filling with experienced people.

Finally, I find it quite ironic that in the forum where elitists/raiders have this stigma of being mean-spirited, spiteful people towards others. Your posts seem to spout unmatched vitriol.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

I challenge every one here saying casuals are "victimizing themselves" to log in, and look at your PF for any learning parties for any content that's not T12 or 13.
If you find any, post screenshot here.

Please, do this. Let's see how many we find across servers. Do you guys accept my challenge?

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This is a moot point cause I can make my own at any time of the day. Will it fill? Maybe. Can I meet people who are on the same content as I am? Yes. Can I talk to said people. Yes. Next time I'm looking to do this content, can I ask these same people again? Yes. 6/8 Party Finder parties have a higher likelihood of filling than 1/8.

You can also Duty Find it. Will you clear it? Unlikely. Will people bail after a couple of wipes? Maybe. Is it possible to get to meaningful phases and actually learn through it. Yes, you absolutely can.

Is your FC/LS helping you at all? Are they around the same level you are or are they much higher? If they're much higher and they won't help you ever, at all, never going to do it... then why are you in that FC/LS? Alternatively, what do YOU do for the FC/LS? I'm in the top ranks of my small ~40 (15 active) FC and if I see someone asking for help for something I will try to make time. However, how hard I will try will typically be indicative of how much the other offers to help. Does the other person join lower people for their runs? Do they give their time and skills to others? If they do then I'll be much more inclined to force some free time to happen. Hell at the very least be somewhat active in the FC/LS. At the very least say Hello when you log on and try to join in conversations that you can. The more friends you can make, the easier things get cause your friends have friends who have friends. The ONLY legitimate excuse for never helping lower level was prior to the weekly clear cap getting removed. I can't go help someone on T10 if I'm on T11. However, that's no longer an excuse.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

I can mostly agree with you.

However not watching a guide is not the sign of a bad/weak player. To some players the challenge of learning a new fight is more fun then beating it. And often times those players have learned to quickly adapt to new situations and formulate tactics on the fly. This is is skill that is not easily gained and is even harder to obtain if all you ever do is watch/read guides.

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All well and good buuuut:

If this is really true, and is for any content more than 1-2 weeks old then if you want the 'fresh' experience, you should look for others also either are:
- willing to let it be 'fresh' for you (IE they don't mind the wipes/don't offer direct instructions/advice unless specifically asked...and if that advice is asked for after a couple attempts....like 'okay, why do I keep dying here, what am i missing' vs. 'okay we just entered, what do we do.' )
-or who also have yet to clear it who also want the 'learn it as we go' and/or 'we beat it all by ourselves' approach.

What happens more often than not though, is these folk who want to avoid looking up basic strategies/videos before entering either:
1. Join a group that expects some basic pre-knowledge of the battle (IE you at least read a quick run down of the mechanics)
2. Joins a group that is in 'clear' mode and thinks it's okay they are the only person not on that page
3. Joins a group, didn't look anything up, but expects everyone else in the party to explain their role/the battle mechanics to them.

In general, if I queue for something, and someone asks 'what do we do in here/I'm new' I don't answer. Why? Google can answer it. And I can heal lots of 'what the hell'. You entered blind....you get to play blind...I am not your Eorzean tour guide. (and technically, by not telling you what to do, I'm letting you 'learn it on your own'...at my own expense I might add) If someone else in the party wants to tell you 'stay out of the pooh' 'boss goes here' 'kill this not that' fine, but I'm not wasting my breath. Not just because you opted out from letting Google be your guide, but because sometimes, that FIRST experience is priceless. (Like I won't tell you about the final boss in brayflox longstop....who cares if we wipe...watching your ass get run over....is satisfaction enough for me).

The greater point. It is absolutely fine to want to 'learn on my own' 'not see spoilers' but then, if that's what you really want, you need to find the proper people to do that with...otherwise, you are wasting other peoples time/trying their patience/or using them to avoid doing your own 'homework'.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Okay I know grammar nazi's are the most hated people on the internet, but c'mon man...

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I was going to show you a 'naked popcorn' but don't look it up...just don't lol.
[And yes I realized I think I used that word wrong but now I'm traumatized lol.]

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...46f614c878.jpg

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https://33.media.tumblr.com/99b155ae...0ag1o1_500.gif
@Malevicton:
LMFAO I'M OUTTA HERE! XDD

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

I was going to show you 'naked popcorn' but don't look it up...just don't lol.
[And yes I realized I think I used that word wrong but now I'm traumatized lol.]

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Couldn't help myself. Search history is forever unclean*

*Okay let's be honest my search history wasn't the cleanest going into this

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Originally Posted by Dement

This is a moot point cause I can make my own at any time of the day. Will it fill? Maybe. Can I meet people who are on the same content as I am? Yes. Can I talk to said people. Yes. Next time I'm looking to do this content, can I ask these same people again? Yes. 6/8 Party Finder parties have a higher likelihood of filling than 1/8. You can also Duty Find it.

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So, you are saying that for me to do content, I need to form not one, but SEVERAL PF parties, do a truckload of networking, add like 10 or 15 names to my friendlist so I can find at least 5 more logged in at the same time as myself another day, form a semi-filled PF party (or be lucky enough to find all 7 online) to even SET FOOT inside the instance. So THEN we finally have a shot at TRYING to learn the fight. That provided among the 7 you found to the party there isn't a jerkish tank who'll say "this DPS won't cut it. I'm out" after the second wipe, and party will disband afterwards, to MAYBE try another day.

That's your solution?

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

. . . .And the 4 good players don't say anything. They're trying to be nice, they think they can still get it done (higher ilevel, echo, luck, whatever). Then the group loses when the boss is at like 5% and the 4 who died ages ago are like "You should've used LB. You should've drank a potion. You should've won SOMEHOW, even though we haven't contributed like AT ALL."

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I've recently been commenting in reddit threads about this phenomenon. There were some threads about how to really give back to the community, and make Eorzea a better home for everyone, accross all servers. Each time I read this, I felt like I was guilty of not giving back enough. I am a tank, I take advantage of my role, I get low queue times, and overall feel like I don't have to work as hard on new content as, say, DPS do. At any rate, each time I read commented in these threads, I took back to Eorzea, and joined a PF for a learning party.

Every single time, I was reprimanded by people who needed clears, because I was doing it wrong.

wait a minute. I'm the one who has cleared this 100 times. Yoou haven't cleared it once. I did something you weren't expecting, and you died. Then your decision is to yell at me, and tell me that I am stupid, and that I don't know what I'm doing? I didn't even entertain the conversation. IN this case, I was just on lunch break, I didn' care about the penalty, and I just dropped, without saying a word in response.

I also know from experience a lot of these Party Finders set up for "Clear experience only" are often set up by people who need the clear. Every time I am learning a new fight, people start telling me I need to change it so that we get members faster. I have integrity, I don't do that. I'll disband a PF of 7 people and start a new one, because obviously they aren't the type of people who want to work hard and learn the fight.

In tandem with your post, I find that the people making the most noise, are the incompetent casuals, who aren't able to clear stuff. They are often most upset with the way they have treated each other, and not even the true elitists.

A friend of mine would definitely be considered an elitist. I don't like watching videos before I run stuff. . . but if I'm not running it on day 1, and if Mr. Happy or MTQCapture have already released videos, he expects me to have seen them. Typically, he expects I would have googled it, looked up strats posted on Reddit, and bluegartr. If I am going to get into his groups, I know that's expected, and i do it. I also know we are going to clear the fight, b/c if somebody is utter fail, they will be called out on it, kicked from the party, and replaced, then given another chance when they have watched a few more videos, or pacticed more. That's the way it is.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

So, you are saying that for me to do content, I need to form not one, but SEVERAL PF parties, do a truckload of networking, add like 10 or 15 names to my friendlist so I can find at least 5 more logged in at the same time as myself another day, form a semi-filled PF party (or be lucky enough to find all 7 online) to even SET FOOT inside the instance. So THEN we finally have a shot at TRYING to learn the fight. That provided among the 7 you found to the party there isn't a jerkish tank who'll say "this DPS won't cut it. I'm out" after the second wipe, and party will disband afterwards, to MAYBE try another day.

That's your solution?

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Yes. Patience is a virtue. You won't clear it today but what else are you going to do? Join a farm group, get cussed out and booted and come to the forums to talk about how terrible the community is? In that scenario you've alienated 7 other people who might possibly one day help you. Reputations go a lot further than you'd think, good or bad.

It certainly undercuts the notion that ffxiv is designed to be friendly for casual players when the community approach is to insists they watch a let's play of the content.

It certainly makes it difficult to recommend to people in real life. If they have to watch the game on YouTube before playing it, then what justifies playing it?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

It certainly undercuts the notion that ffxiv is designed to be friendly for casual players when the community approach is to insists they watch a let's play of the content.

It certainly makes it difficult to recommend to people in real life. If they have to watch the game on YouTube before playing it, then what justifies playing it?

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Because having a basic understanding of mechanics is not the same as actually executing it. FFXIV is designed to be friendly to casual players and there is a ton of content that does not require you to have the slightest idea what you're doing. You can jump into any dungeon without watching videos. You can do any quest, leve, guildhest without knowing what you're doing. You can farm zodiacs and do FATEs without knowing what you're doing. At this point with the nerfs you can do most of BCoB and SCoB without knowing what you're doing. You even get increasing echo everytime you wipe on the Extreme primals. There are a handful of fights though that are designed to be the hardest fights in the game... by going into these blind you are wasting the time of 7 other people. You want to go into the hardest fights blind? Catch up and be ready to tackle them when they come out.

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Originally Posted by Dement

Yes. Patience is a virtue.

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I'm not even talking about clear. I have NOTHING against wiping 100x in a fight before I can get a clear. That rosary was just for GETTING INTO the instance.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

So, you are saying that for me to do content, I need to form not one, but SEVERAL PF parties, do a truckload of networking, add like 10 or 15 names to my friendlist so I can find at least 5 more logged in at the same time as myself another day, form a semi-filled PF party (or be lucky enough to find all 7 online) to even SET FOOT inside the instance. So THEN we finally have a shot at TRYING to learn the fight. That provided among the 7 you found to the party there isn't a jerkish tank who'll say "this DPS won't cut it. I'm out" after the second wipe, and party will disband afterwards, to MAYBE try another day.

That's your solution?

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Well, it certainly doesn't make you look nearly as dumb as jumping into a 7/8 farm run with no prior experience in the raid, claiming you know the fight but just haven't cleared, and wiping at the very first boss mechanic.

In any case, yes. If you want clears in the most expedited and least painful way, you will need to put in some effort. You will need to join learning parties or make your own. You will need to get out there and meet people that want to do the same thing you do. In other words, you will need to put in the same amount of effort that people that cleared it before Echo and DF put in when they first got into their statics or linkshells. Do you think raid statics grow on trees? Do you think that there's some weird hidden stat on your character that means you come into the game with a network of veteran players already in place? Nobody's going to come to you and drop a clear into your lap unless you have some very nice friends, so you'd best make peace with that now. Veteran players don't typically put up party finder advertisements looking for inexperienced players to help (and by 'help' I mean 'carry') unless there's a hefty fee involved. Some of us, however, are quite willing to jump into parties with players that have taken the initiative to put together a message that basically tells the world: HEY, I WANT TO LEARN. We help those that help themselves.

Your alternative is lying (which we've been over) or Duty Finder (which has its own issues), so pick your poison.

If I didn't have the group of friends and static that I have now to run things with, I would have quit playing the game a long time ago and moved onto another game

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

I'm not even talking about clear. I have NOTHING against wiping 100x in a fight before I can get a clear. That rosary was just for GETTING INTO the instance.

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Then join the DF, it'll pop eventually and you don't have to worry about any of that.

Then ask your FC/LS for people to join you. If they don't then why are you in that particular FC/LS?

That rosary was for having a shot at going about it in a PF learning group. There are lots of different ways you can approach it if you truly want to learn/clear. Most of them take time and networking cuts that time down by predisposing you to a group of people in similar situations.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

It certainly undercuts the notion that ffxiv is designed to be friendly for casual players when the community approach is to insists they watch a let's play of the content.

It certainly makes it difficult to recommend to people in real life. If they have to watch the game on YouTube before playing it, then what justifies playing it?

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Casual here; I don't understand what's so hard about watching a video or at least reading a guide for high level content?

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

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Hi, I sell in Behemoth. I can tell you yes, most of my group of sellers is not willing to help someone with a clear unless it is a close friend. We will not join a "T11 clear party" on PF as a missing class. How many people would join a learning party of a complete stranger just to lend a helping hand? I've seen many "Please help! Moogle Ex!" or "T5 clear. Really need this..." on PF, did you consider joining?

Some of us help, yes, but please do understand we have our own patience. Wiping in a turn for an hour due to lack of DPS is not fun after an hour. I mean, if we are helping on our main DPS job, and the group barely beats the enrage timer, then do the rest of dps deserve that clear?

Another question is which contents are NEEDED? Coils are definitely not NEEDED, this is end content, hard mode primals is required, but I have never seen a sale for that. EX is not required but we get sales for that a lot, mostly for ponies.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

It certainly undercuts the notion that ffxiv is designed to be friendly for casual players when the community approach is to insists they watch a let's play of the content.

It certainly makes it difficult to recommend to people in real life. If they have to watch the game on YouTube before playing it, then what justifies playing it?

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That's because the raiding content in this game is based on Japanese shooter mechanics, instead of an actual RPG. It's actually a shallow bastardized version of a WoW raid; the bad ones. I wish we could actually have a Lady Deathwhisper, Alliance/Horde Airship battles, Kargath, MoP Treasure Room, The spider boss right before you enter Orginmar, Onyxia, etc. instead we have a bunch of tank-check, heal-check, DPS-check bosses, that aren't actually fun. All we have in terms of EX primals, coil raids are just brutal ilvl checks, dodge the AoE, Kaizo Mario BS. The ones that people think are easy are the ones that are well designed (Leviathan EX, Avatar) that had action elements to them (such as pushing towers or not getting knocked off) but still had RPG elements to it (like the Allagan debuff or the Water Viel that stacks the more you healed the tank). Leviathan also had organic methods to make sure you had two tanks and two healers, as opposed to forced "tank swaps" or ifrit's Searing Wind attack.

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Originally Posted by ilmynasa

Hi, I sell in Behemoth. I can tell you yes, most of my group of sellers is not willing to help someone with a clear unless it is a close friend. We will not join a "T11 clear party" on PF as a missing class. How many people would join a learning party of a complete stranger just to lend a helping hand? I've seen many "Please help! Moogle Ex!" or "T5 clear. Really need this..." on PF, did you consider joining?

Some of us help, yes, but please do understand we have our own patience. Wiping in a turn for an hour due to lack of DPS is not fun after an hour. I mean, if we are helping on our main DPS job, and the group barely beats the enrage timer, then do the rest of dps deserve that clear?

Another question is which contents are NEEDED? Coils are definitely not NEEDED, this is end content, hard mode primals is required, but I have never seen a sale for that. EX is not required but we get sales for that a lot, mostly for ponies.

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I'm not sure how run-sellers factor into the discussion of people getting help on instances.Run-sellers don't help. Period. Every person they help for free is a customer gone. Run-sellers typically won't teach you a turn, they'll make you kill yourself and then 7-man it so that you can't screw it up. You walk out of the encounter worse than you went in because now you don't have the 100 sol message so people expect you to be experienced but you still don't have the slightest clue what's going on.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

The attitude that demands others watch a video before playing is selfish pure and simple. Many players wish to experience content the first time by actually playing it.Shocking I know, imagine that wanting to play this game instead if simply viewing it on You Tube....

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Watching a video won't help a lot really, but if you want an experience where nobody knows what to do, all the group has to be in the same situation, like when you do content the first day and nobody has been there before. If somebody is going to explain it, it will not be a real first time experience and reading a guide or seeing a video would have been better really, a video or guide is never like real playing and does not spoil things much more since the rest of players already know what to do. And you may not spoil other people's game as much. Other people's experience is as important as yours, it's a team game and the normal thing is try to do your best. You can make a party in PF for completely new people for the place or a no explanations, experience party.

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Originally Posted by Dement

I'm not sure how run-sellers factor into the discussion of people getting help on instances. Run-sellers don't help. Period. Every person they help for free is a customer gone.

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That's a very broad brush to paint even a small portion of the raiding community with, so I can't agree. My static has actually been helped on every single turn since T9 by a fairly prominent run seller on my server. He genuinely enjoys running Coil and genuinely enjoys helping people clear. He's a really fun guy to be around, but isn't afraid to tell you exactly what you're screwing up and how you can fix it. I wish I had more opportunities to party with him, actually. The fact that he sells runs is basically the path of least resistance to earn gil. Some of us are good at crafting. Some of us are good at playing the market. He's really really good at raiding, and more power to him for making money from it.

There are going to be run sellers that will help, and there are going to be those that won't. *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by ilmynasa

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I'm also on behemoth and helped some random dude with a t5 just yesterday :P

Some run sellers might help people, some won't. They're still people at the end of the day. Being a run seller in and of itself doesn't make someone more or less likely to join learning parties.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

you will need to put in the same amount of effort that people that cleared it before Echo and DF put in

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Actually it's not the same effort. First because it's a feasible option to find learning / clear parties on PF... WHEN THE CONTENT IS BLEEDING EDGE. Second because as time advances, more and more people will have cleared the content and will be less patient with people who don't know it yet. Third, the number people who need that clear dwindles as time go by, making harder and harder to put together a party with each passing week.

So no. It's not the same effort. I GUARANTEE you went through much less pain to find people willing to wipe on T9 back when you cleared it than you would right now.

I do admit that may have been too broad of a stroke. What I was thinking of explicitly was not one run-seller helping out a mostly pre-made party but a group of run-sellers are not likely to take on an individual who needs the clear pro-bono. They wouldn't hand a clear over that they can charge for.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

I'm also on behemoth and helped some random dude with a t5 just yesterday :P

Some run sellers might help people, some won't. They're still people at the end of the day. Being a run seller in and of itself doesn't make someone more or less likely to join learning parties.

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Supporting this as another seller, I help people in my FC through T5 whenever I have time. I'd also help with T9s but I'm currently in midterm season so I'm busy with that (and also working on a second relic).

Just because we're not in public shouting "FREE CARRIES COME AND GET SUM" doesn't mean we're not still helping people out.

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Originally Posted by Dement

I do admit that may have been too brought of a stroke. What I was thinking of explicitly was not one run-seller helping out a mostly pre-made party but a group of run-sellers are not likely to take on an individual who needs the clear pro-bono. They wouldn't hand a clear over that they can charge for.

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I dunno, I've made and seen arrangements such as these before. It doesn't happen nearly as often, but it still does.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Actually it's not the same effort. First because it's a feasible option to find learning / clear parties on PF... WHEN THE CONTENT IS BLEEDING EDGE. Second because as time advances, more and more people will have cleared the content and will be less patient with people who don't know it yet. Third, the number people who need that clear dwindles as time go by, making harder and harder to put together a party with each passing week.

So no. It's not the same effort. I GUARANTEE you went through much less pain to find people willing to wipe on T9 back when you cleared it than you would right now.

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I'm not sure what you're GUARANTEEING here. When I was getting my T9 clear it had a weekly lock on it. That effectively made sure that there weren't ANY learning party finders ever. Furthermore, people who had cleared it for the week and were thus experienced could not help you. Furthermore, most of the community is in a static of some kind and wouldn't raid with anyone else not because they didn't want to but because if you cleared the content you'd lock yourself out of your static's run time. It was not in Duty Finder. You either had a static or you got insanely lucky to find enough people who were not running with their statics that week or had other issues come up. The only other possibility was jumping into a static that was missing someone and couldn't fill the spot with stand-bys.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Actually it's not the same effort. First because it's a feasible option to find learning / clear parties on PF... WHEN THE CONTENT IS BLEEDING EDGE. Second because as time advances, more and more people will have cleared the content and will be less patient with people who don't know it yet. Third, the number people who need that clear dwindles as time go by, making harder and harder to put together a party with each passing week.

So no. It's not the same effort. I GUARANTEE you went through much less pain to find people willing to wipe on T9 back when you cleared it than you would right now.

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If you're citing T9, should I then cite T13? That's the closest we have to bleeding edge now. I see T13 learning and clear parties in PF all day. The funny part is I also see them for T9, mostly due to its status as a "gatekeeper" turn. Hell, I see at least 1 or 2 T5 clears a day in PF, and hear about several more on linkshells. I see half a dozen parties per day for lower turns of FCoB, sometimes more. Most of them that I've joined have had at least one other player with clear experience in it. If anything, it's easier for people to get a clear now because there are people that have had the content on farm for awhile now and are willing to help less experienced people learn. Some of us get a warm fuzzy feeling from it.

All we ask is that you put in a modicum of effort. Put up that PF. And now, I'm going to be silly. :)

http://blog.frogslayer.com/wp-conten...eywillcome.png

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Originally Posted by Kallera

It certainly undercuts the notion that ffxiv is designed to be friendly for casual players when the community approach is to insists they watch a let's play of the content.

It certainly makes it difficult to recommend to people in real life. If they have to watch the game on YouTube before playing it, then what justifies playing it?

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The only thing you really need to watch videos for, are the top-end, most challenging content available. Most other things, it's probably not necessary.

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Third, the number people who need that clear dwindles as time go by, making harder and harder to put together a party with each passing week.

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You are talking about less than 10% of the entire server population. On some servers the number is less than 3%. There is a HUGE amout of ppl who don't have the clear months after the content was released. You make it sound like there are only couple few who are being left behind because of the mean elitists.

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Originally Posted by Dement

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Sorry, was bit vague on that I guess. Some of my static members join teaching parties in a FC to help those who want the clear. But there are many people who goes in there, and expect to for a carry. We don't help those people.

I guess I'll give a specific example. 3 of my static is helping with a T13 clear. I was on my smn main dpsing. Our clear was right after the last akh morn, just as enrage gigaflare is casting. One melee is parsing below 350 for almost every pull, with echo, even after he got the weapon. And I think one of my static member already went to him regarding his rotation.

Us willing to help does not equal to people willing to listen. And not all sellers treat others as potential customers.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

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Your server must be some kind of utopian paradise, then. Me and a bunch of other people already told about a much harsher reality in this topic. Please tell us where that magical realm where T5 and T9 parties actually happens is. We only heard it in legends.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

http://blog.frogslayer.com/wp-conten...eywillcome.png

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I can vouch for this. I'm a member of a four-man static. Due to family reponsibilities we can only meet as a group one night per week, for roughly three hours. This has meant that our progression is slow, but we ARE progressing. We're good players, or like to think we are, but our glacial weekly pace means that it's tough to recruit.

Nevertheless, when we put up T9 progression in Party Finder, we usually fill up pretty quickly. The players often bail if we don't meet their standards (including one hilarious case where a pick-up warned, "If we wipe on meteors, I'm out," who kept his promise - after HE caused the wipe), but usually we'll eventually manage to cobble a crew together willing to actually get some practice in. We made it to T9 Divebombs for the first time this week, something we're please and excited by.

But yeah, use Party Finder. It does work. You won't get placed in a group as quickly as you would be by Duty Finder, but the players you get will typically be more worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Your server must be some kind of utopian paradise, then. Me and a bunch of other people already told about a much harsher reality in this topic. Please tell us where that magical realm where T5 and T9 parties actually happens is. We only heard it in legends.

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Well you and I are on the same server, and I've actually joined a decent amount of t5/t9 parties...

I'm a proponent of the "you'll get whatever you look for" philosophy. There are some jerks in this game and there are some awesome people. If you are expecting and looking for jerks, then you'll find em. If you're expecting and looking for awesome people you'll find em as well.

So, instead of expecting everyone to be a jerk and waiting for them to prove you wrong, flip it around. Assume people are chill until they prove otherwise. May sound cheesy, but seriously it helps.

Actually that is my attitude. I'm even one of the few who sees the vote abandons and reply on chat "ow, c'mon, don't give up". I'm the one who tried to make several dozens of learning parties who didn't fill. I'm the one who tries to stay with a positive attitude even on the brink of failure.

But bad attitude and lack of good will is something that is outside my control.
Funny thing is it's always the TANKS who are lacking. I figure most of them finda parties easier and already got their clears, so why bother.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

Your server must be some kind of utopian paradise, then. Me and a bunch of other people already told about a much harsher reality in this topic. Please tell us where that magical realm where T5 and T9 parties actually happens is. We only heard it in legends.

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It's a magical realm called Sargatanas, on data center Aether. We have cookies! ;3

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

We made it to T9 Divebombs for the first time this week, something we're please and excited by.

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Gratz on your progress!! It always feels really really good to push to the next phase. :D

I wish more of the people posting here were from my server. I like to help. :c

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

But bad attitude and lack of good will is something that is outside my control.
Funny thing is it's always the TANKS who are lacking. I figure most of them finda parties easier and already got their clears, so why bother.

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They may just be afraid to go in as tanks because of the inherent responsibility and visibility of the role. If the tank screws up, everyone knows. It's the same reason it can be hard to find Scholars for T10 - Prey gets missed, guess who gets taken to task for it. It could also be that they have tried as tanks, have messed up, and have had abuse heaped on them because of it so they're leery of going in as a tank again. I think that less people actually play tanks in endgame (versus queueing up as tanks for fast queues in lolfaceroll dungeons) than may actually be apparent from DF queues.