Game is not very social to me wether in a FC or not

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

YOU have to be social. You can't expect the people to come to you. We see this from time to time in our FC. Someone quits because they never felt included when they themselves never spoke up in the FC and never made themselves a part of the community. MMOs are what you make of them. If you don't try then you don't get anything at all.



They can buy a keyboard. Just like every Pc player has so that's no excuse.

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That's like demanding a PC player buy a controller just like every console player has. An argument that doesn't get you very far in either case.

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Originally Posted by Zorvan

That's like demanding a PC player buy a controller just like every console player has. An argument that doesn't get you very far in either case.

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Well if you want the full experience you'd buy the extra peripheral to enjoy all that the product has to offer. It's like someone complaining that guitar hero sucked because they had to play on controller.

I have to agree with Tiggy that you make the game Social. Just because a group doesnt include you into things doesnt make them less social. You never spoke up in the first place. Say you need to do something, encourage people to do it with you. Dont expect the help to come flying to you, fly to it! Rather than saying "I need help with this run, someone help me." Say it like this "I am going to run this, does anyone need it too?" Or just go and PF for it. I'm sure by the time you have a full group, you've at least said "Hello!".

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Originally Posted by Koenignovi

How so? In what way have they made this game less social able? You as a player have a chat log, the ability to talk to others in several different ways. The forums and FC forums enable players to keep in touch. I'm not sure what all the flaws are that you mention.

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Yes, you're given the basic tools to communicate but are given little to no incentive while leveling to actually socialize. In the olden days of online gaming, the friends you made on your way to level cap provided you with the group of people that you would experience the level cap content with. That isn't the case anymore. You've listed off nothing more than ways to communicate. My point had everything to do with how the game itself is designed. A player has no reason to socialize from 1-50, and once they hit 50 they're hit hard in face with the reality that they need to socialize. The game punishes a new player upon hitting 50 for not socializing, despite having never made it clear to them that they needed to in the first place. The entire situation of modern MMOs reeks of hypocrisy in design.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

Yes, you're given the basic tools to communicate but are given little to no incentive while leveling to actually socialize. In the olden days of online gaming, the friends you made on your way to level cap provided you with the group of people that you would experience the level cap content with. That isn't the case anymore. You've listed off nothing more than ways to communicate. My point had everything to do with how the game itself is designed. A player has no reason to socialize from 1-50, and once they hit 50 they're hit hard in face with the reality that they need to socialize. The game punishes a new player upon hitting 50 for not socializing, despite having never made it clear to them that they needed to in the first place. The entire situation of modern MMOs reeks of hypocrisy in design.

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From 1 to 50 I spoke to many people, in and out of DF/PF. Never did I feel like I was a lone. If I had a question about my class/job, I would ask people in LS/FC for advice. I would even ask people I didn't even know what they were doing for the class/job I saw them playing on. Again, I reached out to people to make that socialization happen. I wasn't pushed by the game to make it happen. You expect the game to push players into social ques, it is... You are flung into a dungeon with 3-23 random strangers... Break the ice, say something...

I started playing this game with three other friends when it was re-released. We all had a great time up to our 50s. We even found additional comrades getting there. So I don't see how leveling up is so bad for people in this game. Maybe they just assume one or more people are going to see an injured or weary puppy on the side of the road and pick it up... And if that's the case... dang, we have a lot of lonely puppies...

In a slightly different direction, I think outside information on the game makes people assume they can get stuff done solo. Being that the info on gear, stats, battles, etc, are all readily available, players fly to it before asking others for insight which hinders that meta channel. I mean, it's just an observation... Don't think that's the games fault, more of a community thing.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

The game isn't designed around being a very social experience in the first place. Modern MMOs tend to cater towards a "convenient" playstyle rather than a social one, so your average player is left with not much to show by the time they're 50. It's an incredibly flawed way to design a MMO, but it's the ironic reality we have.

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And how would you design the MMO then? No duty finder or single player quests to force people to be social and make their own groups???? Then suddenly a large part of the playerbase does not do dungeons and hates questing. The game would find itself hurt in other ways.

I by no means suggest that everything needs to be anti-social and solo content, but just because something is "social" does not necessarily make it better.

1-50 with little to no interaction with anyone on their server outside of FATE parties in the 40s. And as for your claim that people assume they can get stuff done solo, it's because they can. There is absolutely nothing from 1-50 that requires a new player to socialize on their own server. You're actually DISCOURAGED to seek people from your own server as the quests tell you to use the Duty Finder. There's not even a hinting on by SE that you might want to recruit locally because there's honestly no point. When you begin to cater to the crowd that just wants to login for an hour every night and get something done, you shed any form of socialization. It's the tradeoff of convenience, which the MMO community has chosen.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

I by no means suggest that everything needs to be anti-social and solo content, but just because something is "social" does not necessarily make it better.

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Ignoring the rest of your post, you have to keep in mind this is a MMO. An MMO NOT being social sounds extremely counter-productive don't you think?

Idk what you're talking about, this game is extremely social. See all the /tells I got?

http://i.imgur.com/qkNTxWQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PuCI6oz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rb45o8h.jpg

Constant social activity!

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

And how would you design the MMO then? No duty finder or single player quests to force people to be social and make their own groups???? Then suddenly a large part of the playerbase does not do dungeons and hates questing. The game would find itself hurt in other ways.

I by no means suggest that everything needs to be anti-social and solo content, but just because something is "social" does not necessarily make it better.

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Making the main story synonymous with the best way to level is what has created this problem. If players want to progress their character at a reasonable pace, they are forced to go through the MSQ. Personally I don't feel hand-held questing as the main source of experience points has ever been a good idea in MMOs. In an ideal situation a person would be able to level at whatever pace they choose and experience the story at a different pace, also of their own choosing. I'm painting a target on myself here, but look at FFXI for a good idea of how this used to work. Am I endorsing grinding open world mobs as the holy grail of MMO leveling? No, I feel that things like FATEs, leves, guildhests, and dungeons all provide a role that the MSQ had no place taking for a person's first leveling experience.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

1-50 with little to no interaction with anyone on their server outside of FATE parties in the 40s. And as for your claim that people assume they can get stuff done solo, it's because they can. There is absolutely nothing from 1-50 that requires a new player to socialize on their own server. You're actually DISCOURAGED to seek people from your own server as the quests tell you to use the Duty Finder. There's not even a hinting on by SE that you might want to recruit locally because there's honestly no point. When you begin to cater to the crowd that just wants to login for an hour every night and get something done, you shed any form of socialization. It's the tradeoff of convenience, which the MMO community has chosen.

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I suppose. I never really thought of the game telling me to look away from the people around you. I honestly thought it a means to get started. If that is not a good way of getting started, how would you go about making it so?

I don't imagine you NOT using DF but it does sound like you're against using it. Do you have others group up with you just so you can have them push the DF button for you? All while you stay quiet hoping they understand your implication?

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

Making the main story synonymous with the best way to level is what has created this problem. If players want to progress their character at a reasonable pace, they are forced to go through the MSQ. Personally I don't feel hand-held questing as the main source of experience points has ever been a good idea in MMOs. In an ideal situation a person would be able to level at whatever pace they choose and experience the story at a different pace, also of their own choosing. I'm painting a target on myself here, but look at FFXI for a good idea of how this used to work. Am I endorsing grinding open world mobs as the holy grail of MMO leveling? No, I feel that things like FATEs, leves, guildhests, and dungeons all provide a role that the MSQ had no place taking for a person's first leveling experience.

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Sounds like ESO might be up your ally on this one. Though, from my experience there too, it's mostly story driven if you want to be leveled up quickly.

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Originally Posted by Koenignovi

I suppose. I never really thought of the game telling me to look away from the people around you. I honestly thought it a means to get started. If that is not a good way of getting started, how would you go about making it so?

I don't imagine you NOT using DF but it does sound like you're against using it. Do you have others group up with you just so you can have them push the DF button for you? All while you stay quiet hoping they understand your implication?

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I got my start in 1.0 so none of what I said applies to me. I made my connections in the game when you had to socialize to get anything done. I've already posted my solution on the last page.

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Originally Posted by Varilae

Ignoring the rest of your post, you have to keep in mind this is a MMO. An MMO NOT being social sounds extremely counter-productive don't you think?

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lol, I do see the irony in that statement.

That being said, not everything should be social. Single player content is just as important as the group stuff. You need to have a balanced mix of the two! :P

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

I got my start in 1.0 so none of what I said applies to me. I made my connections in the game when you had to socialize to get anything done. I've already posted my solution on the last page.

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I hardly think that playing this game when it was buggy and glitchy for a few months only a few years ago makes you an expert on socializing in MMOs. ;P

I've played lots of MMOs. WoW, Eve Online, Runescape, Maple story, Final Fantasy 11, Warhammer, Star Wars the Old Republic, ect.... And what I have found is that the single player stuff is good. The main story questline in FF14 that people follow when leveling their first toon is good. That being said, you are right, socializing should be encouraged more. The game should incentivize people to group up for content from time to time, but don't forget just how important the single player stuff is too. :P

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

I hardly think that playing this game when it was buggy and glitchy for a few months only a few years ago makes you an expert on socializing in MMOs. ;P

I've played lots of MMOs. WoW, Eve Online, Runescape, Maple story, Final Fantasy 11, Warhammer, Star Wars the Old Republic, ect.... And what I have found is that the single player stuff is good. The main story questline in FF14 that people follow when leveling their first toon is good. That being said, you are right, socializing should be encouraged more. The game should incentivize people to group up for content from time to time, but don't forget just how important the single player stuff is too. :P

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I don't think 1.0 being buggy or glitchy had anything to do with it's failure, but OK. I never said that having a single player aspect to a MMO was wrong. I don't think there's anything particularly single player about my argument though? DF isn't single player. In fact I feel there's always a place for being able to log on a MMO and get something done by yourself.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

I got my start in 1.0 so none of what I said applies to me. I made my connections in the game when you had to socialize to get anything done. I've already posted my solution on the last page.

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Awww, but I want to socialize! This is a group discussion, no? I want to read your story on how all this could be better. I mean, complaining about it is one thing. It's obvious there are flaws. But how would you rework it? How would you make those flaws less of an issue?

Nothing is perfect and sometimes you have to make due with what you get. This isn't my first rodeo by any means. I've been here since the beginning too, as a different toon and alias. So I hardly see how this doesn't apply to you, unless you believe you've made all the social connections you'll ever make.

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Originally Posted by Koenignovi

Awww, but I want to socialize! This is a group discussion, no? I want to read your story on how all this could be better. I mean, complaining about it is one thing. It's obvious there are flaws. But how would you rework it? How would you make those flaws less of an issue?

Nothing is perfect and sometimes you have to make due with what you get. This isn't my first rodeo by any means. I've been here since the beginning too, as a different toon and alias. So I hardly see how this doesn't apply to you, unless you believe you've made all the social connections you'll ever make.

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I... already posted it on the last page? Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? If you had read what I had said earlier, then you'd realize I was describing a fresh 1-50's experience.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

I... already posted it on the last page? Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? If you had read what I had said earlier, then you'd realize I was describing a fresh 1-50's experience.

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Really? What I read didn't really sound like anything helpful, really... I mean, I suppose there should be better incentives for players to play together during the MSQ but there are plenty of things to do outside of that with other players. Was that your only idea to make this a better game? Hmm, thought you might have more then that.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

I... already posted it on the last page? Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? If you had read what I had said earlier, then you'd realize I was describing a fresh 1-50's experience.

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Your argument on the last page pretty much came down to "I hate duty finder".

While I agree that being able to queue into a group instead of manually searching for a group for duty finder takes away some of the social aspects of the game, I also believe that duty finder is part of what makes MMOs great. Before duty finder in a lot of MMOs very few people would do group dungeons (this was true in WoW) as they were not really accessible to the average gamer. Duty finder allows 100% of the playerbase to experience dungeons instead of only the 10% who are social enough to stand around in a city for twenty minutes looking for a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Your argument on the last page pretty much came down to "I hate duty finder".

While I agree that being able to queue into a group instead of manually searching for a group for duty finder takes away some of the social aspects of the game, I also believe that duty finder is part of what makes MMOs great. Before duty finder in a lot of MMOs very few people would do group dungeons (this was true in WoW) as they were not really accessible to the average gamer. Duty finder allows 100% of the playerbase to experience dungeons instead of only the 10% who are social enough to stand around in a city for twenty minutes looking for a dungeon.

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OMG all of this! ^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you for pointing that out! FINALLY!

You get all my coookies for the win! :)

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Your argument on the last page pretty much came down to "I hate duty finder".

While I agree that being able to queue into a group instead of manually searching for a group for duty finder takes away some of the social aspects of the game, I also believe that duty finder is part of what makes MMOs great. Before duty finder in a lot of MMOs very few people would do group dungeons (this was true in WoW) as they were not really accessible to the average gamer. Duty finder allows 100% of the playerbase to experience dungeons instead of only the 10% who are social enough to stand around in a city for twenty minutes looking for a dungeon.

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Wasn't the cross-server dungeon queuing system for WoW not added until the Wrath of the Lich King expansion? Was there any queue system before that or was it all PF-style?

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Originally Posted by Koenignovi

You get all my coookies for the win! :)

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XD

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Before duty finder in a lot of MMOs very few people would do group dungeons (this was true in WoW) as they were not really accessible to the average gamer.

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Do you have a single fact to back that up?

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Originally Posted by Koenignovi

. Gating yourself off by ignoring back is only going to make your experience worse.


Not everyone is going to accept you and you shouldn't assume they will. Friendships are made by mutual likeness, they are not just people that you want to talk too and hope to be talked back.

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Gating myself would not make the experience any worse.

If I leave what would be my fifth FC, chances are I'm not going to bother with another. Call me a whiner or whatever I guess, but not one soul on Lamia 'accepts' me. The far as I will get is just an associate. It was exactly like that in FFXI. I guess I don't have anything in common with anyone. ::shrugs:: I'm so tired of this endless cycle >_>

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Originally Posted by Varilae

Wasn't the cross-server dungeon queuing system for WoW not added until the Wrath of the Lich King expansion? Was there any queue system before that or was it all PF-style?

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Correct. Before Lich King all parties had to be formed manually. As a result A lot of people would just skip dungeons and quest all the way to max level. Once finding a party became easy through party finder, a lot more people began to party up.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

Do you have a single fact to back that up?

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I doubt I could find a comprehensive scientific study on the effects on MMOs before and after queues for dungeons are added, but I have seen it personally over my last 10+ years of MMO experience. I assure you that with dungeon finder (aka duty finder) people do way more of them than without it.

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Originally Posted by Twilite

Gating myself would not make the experience any worse.

If I leave what would be my fifth FC, chances are I'm not going to bother with another. Call me a whiner or whatever I guess, but not one soul on Lamia 'accepts' me. The far as I will get is just an associate. It was exactly like that in FFXI. I guess I don't have anything in common with anyone. ::shrugs:: I'm so tired of this endless cycle >_>

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I didn't intend to offend, but rather advise that there are better situation out there. You're situation is unique and can take time to solve.

Siren is a laid back server with lots of good people to chat with. Come join the Sirens song and join my FC if you wish. We are usually up to no good during peak hours. :)

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

Correct. Before Lich King all parties had to be formed manually. As a result A lot of people would just skip dungeons and quest all the way to max level. Once finding a party became easy through party finder, a lot more people began to party up.



I doubt I could find a comprehensive scientific study on the effects on MMOs before and after queues for dungeons are added, but I have seen it personally over my last 10+ years of MMO experience. I assure you that with dungeon finder (aka duty finder) people do way more of them than without it.

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Similarly, before DF/PF, in older MMOs I remember having to work my way into group that would run dungeons regularly. Before that, I was just constantly looking for chats/shouts for runs to something I might need. I even remember when people would complain about people shouting to much for that stuff, as to be annoyed by the mass amount of people looking for others to play with. lol

Duty finder has helped the casual player jump in without having to worry about looking for those shouts anymore. It also assures new players that older dungeons are still accessible, even if the advanced players dont always join them.(And there are plenty of improvements to this that I can speak too.)

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Originally Posted by Koenignovi

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Apologies for the late response, this 20 post per day limit is killing me and my thread has been eating up my posts like crazy.

Anyways, Linkshells do help with the impersonality of zergs in hunts. I don't know how it is there though, but on Balmung, the main hunting linkshell is full a lot of the time, or was when I last checked into it at least. Getting into it was and probably is still quite difficult. So the people who are not able to be in it do not have that option. Secondary attempts at hunting linkshells that I've seen have failed fast as well.

The DF problem could definitely be helped. I have met many awesome people in DF who were on other servers. This really sucks, because I can't friend them or talk to them afterwards without making an alt and going through the leveling process for every single person I meet and their servers. It's unrealistic to do that, and discourages socializing in DF because people are aware of the fact. If SE allowed friend requests or messaging across servers, this point would no longer stand, and DF would have both convenience and a design that encourages social behavior, and as such would have all advantages over PF.

some groups i get in we chat it up like a storm...then some we dont say anything. Either way it doesnt matter because ill probably never see them again....they are more than likely on other servers :(

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Originally Posted by Adire

The DF problem could definitely be helped. I have met many awesome people in DF who were on other servers. This really sucks, because I can't friend them or talk to them afterwards without making an alt and going through the leveling process for every single person I meet and their servers. It's unrealistic to do that, and discourages socializing in DF because people are aware of the fact. If SE allowed friend requests or messaging across servers, this point would no longer stand, and DF would have both convenience and a design that encourages social behavior, and as such would have all advantages over PF.

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Oh dear god no! lol! Until they can get their RMT stuff under control, this would be a very bad idea. Cross server friends and messages works in WoW, but WoW has the RMT stuff under control, lol.

This is of course my "personal" opinion, however I believe that SE has moved "too" far away from required social oriented MMO style gameplay.

With the Xpac looming my FC is a ghost town, this game relies too much on being available at the right point in progression at the right time, if you miss that window you are at the mercy of DF/PF with people you don't know to get anything done.

Either make future content more social/FC oriented, or go the full monty in the other direction and take 4-8 or more man content out of requirement to get storyline content progression completed.

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Originally Posted by Twilite

Yes chatting is my only way. Non verbal gestures do not work. Bigger problem is the high chance of being ignored, which leads to this:

I've turned off my LS/FC chat because I get ignored in them anyway, so tells and say are pretty much the only forms of chatting I have right now. Can get very lonely as I can go days at a time not saying anything.

Now by design, this game doesn't support socializing well, nor do these forums. Maybe you all should ask Yoshida what's up with that.

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Maybe it is your topic having a mismatch or? You can't force people to engage in a topic that doesn't interest them?

I don't have problem cooking up a random chat anywhere in the game, really.

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Originally Posted by Varilae

Ignoring the rest of your post, you have to keep in mind this is a MMO. An MMO NOT being social sounds extremely counter-productive don't you think?

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Not really. MMO is a size descriptor, not a gameplay style. I, for example, am here mainly for the game. As I am in most mmos, simply because the game world is larger than what I would get in a singleplayer game and also more content than in a singleplayer where one or two dlcs drop then game is over and done. For all intents and purposes, other players in the world around me are nothing more than moderately advanced AI. If it weren't for the storyline being continually ( and frustratingly ) gated behind the duty finder, I'd have never partied with anyone at this point.

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Originally Posted by Zorvan

Not really. MMO is a size descriptor, not a gameplay style. I, for example, am here mainly for the game. As I am in most mmos, simply because the game world is larger than what I would get in a singleplayer game and also more content than in a singleplayer where one or two dlcs drop then game is over and done. For all intents and purposes, other players in the world around me are nothing more than moderately advanced AI. If it weren't for the storyline being continually ( and frustratingly ) gated behind the duty finder, I'd have never partied with anyone at this point.

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That's great that you have fun with the game like that, but that's still not the point of MMOs. They're intended to be games with social interaction.

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Originally Posted by Varilae

That's great that you have fun with the game like that, but that's still not the point of MMOs. They're intended to be games with social interaction.

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*****Social interaction to a point*******

Just thought I would add that!!! :D While some MMOs have more social interaction than others, very few MMOs are designed to have social interaction 100% of the time.

It is perfectly acceptable to ignore other players for a few days while you are questing in the "wilderness" and to occasionally group for a fate or teleport to a crowded city to sell goods to other players on the market board. It is also perfectly acceptable to be in a group talking to other players every 5 minutes.

While I do agree that the point of an MMO is to be "social", to many people in this thread are interpreting it as being social the majority of the time. Even if you are only social 10% of the time, that is still fine. There is not a social meter where if you dont /tell someone enough you are failing.... :P

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

*****Social interaction to a point*******

Just thought I would add that!!! :D While some MMOs have more social interaction than others, very few MMOs are designed to have social interaction 100% of the time.

It is perfectly acceptable to ignore other players for a few days while you are questing in the "wilderness" and to occasionally group for a fate or teleport to a crowded city to sell goods to other players on the market board. It is also perfectly acceptable to be in a group talking to other players every 5 minutes.

While I do agree that the point of an MMO is to be "social", to many people in this thread are interpreting it as being social the majority of the time. Even if you are only social 10% of the time, that is still fine. There is not a social meter where if you dont /tell someone enough you are failing.... :P

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Well said! MMOs are a descriptor of what size of game it is. Though the game is meant to be multi-player, it does not have to be for all people. That's like saying going outside to a park where people roam is meant for people to interact and what not. But more than half of them are there just for themselves anyways. Not everyone is going to wave hi to you or ask for a convo.

The entire time I've been on this thread is to merely make the point that you make the socialization in the end. Yes, someone can jump out and start a convo with you, but in the end it's up to you to take it or leave it. You have to be engaged to stay engaged. Opportunity will always be there, you just have to see it and step to it.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

*****Social interaction to a point*******

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To a point, yes. A big point, considering it's one of the main selling points on the back of the game's box. I'm in agreement that not everything needs to be a social experience in MMOs. There always has been and always will be some form of content that is soloable. That's all fine. I think the point of this thread and the main complaint is that there isn't enough of it as is (required by the game) or there isn't a big enough incentive to actually go out and socialize, not that everything needs to be like that.

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Originally Posted by Varilae

To a point, yes. A big point, considering it's one of the main selling points on the back of the game's box. I'm in agreement that not everything needs to be a social experience in MMOs. There always has been and always will be some form of content that is soloable. That's all fine. I think the point of this thread and the main complaint is that there isn't enough of it as is (required by the game) or there isn't a big enough incentive to actually go out and socialize, not that everything needs to be like that.

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And where on the "back of the box" are you reading that everyone is meant to socialize and play together the majority of the time? If you mean the "play with thousands of other players", I do that the minute I login. I am playing the game with thousands of other players at the same time, which is all "the box" promises. Nowhere, on any box of any mmo, does it say "socializing and/or grouping mandated for the majority of the time".

See, you seem to be confusing game style ( raiding focused, group focused, etc. ) with game genre (mmo). UO had a focus on PvP, EQ focused on group PvE and later on raiding aimed at the "hardcore", these mmos were that way because the genre was a niche at best and these were the only styles anyone had bothered to make. Here in the present, FFXIV just happens to be focused more on solo and casual play and is one amongst hundreds of different mmos each with a different style of gameplay as the focus. In fact, FFXI was probably the last "old guard" mmo made. There's a reason FFXIV isn't "FFXI: II." In case you haven't noticed, mmos that focus on storyline and play more like singleplayer games with multiplayer as a bonus addon ( TSW, TESO, SWTOR, FFXIV ) are the direction the genre has gone. The "casual" player overwhelmingly won the coin toss.

I remember getting pretty heated when I played those older games and casuals would come in demanding the devs make things more to their liking. I'd tell them the same I'm telling you. Why do you feel the devs should change how they develop their game for you, when you could just go to a game that is developed the way "you" prefer? Believe it or not, not every game is made for every person.

And no, I'm not telling you the equivalent of "go back to EQ". I'm just saying, it's a lot easier to find a game you can enjoy as is than it is to demand one be changed to how you feel it should be.

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Originally Posted by Zorvan

And where on the "back of the box" are you reading that everyone is meant to socialize and play together the majority of the time? If you mean the "play with thousands of other players", I do that the minute I login. I am playing the game with thousands of other players at the same time, which is all "the box" promises. Nowhere, on any box of any mmo, does it say "socializing and/or grouping mandated for the majority of the time".

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I never implied it was mandated. I implied it was a selling point for the game. I guess you're playing with other people if you simply count "playing" as the same thing as "being in the presence of others".

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See, you seem to be confusing game style ( raiding focused, group focused, etc. ) with game genre (mmo).

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The relationship between the two is still heavily implied by the term "MMO", even if there's more solo content right now. Keep in mind I never said solo content was a bad thing.

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I'd tell them the same I'm telling you. Why do you feel the devs should change how they develop their game for you, when you could just go to a game that is developed the way "you" prefer? Believe it or not, not every game is made for every person.

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There's some irony here given that this is coming from someone looking to a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE role playing game for a single player style experience.

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Originally Posted by Varilae

There's some irony here given that this is coming from someone looking to a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE role playing game for a single player style experience.

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And? Unlike yourself, I understand that MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER means MASSES OF PEOPLE PLAYING and nothing more. You keep mistaking what YOU *think* mmo means for what it actually means. It's not MASSIVELY ONLINE SOCIALIZING. Go to Disneyland, that's a real life equivalent of an mmo. When you go to Disneyland, do you expect to be socializing with everyone simply because there's a massive amount of people? No? Welcome to the themepark.

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Originally Posted by Zorvan

And? Unlike yourself, I understand that MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER means MASSES OF PEOPLE PLAYING and nothing more. You keep mistaking what YOU *think* mmo means for what it actually means. It's not MASSIVELY ONLINE SOCIALIZING. Go to Disneyland, that's a real life equivalent of an mmo. When you go to Disneyland, do you expect to be socializing with everyone simply because there's a massive amount of people? No? Welcome to the themepark.

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Not quite the same thing given that this is a video game and you're not going to Disneyland every day or every other day, especially considering the fact that you're not likely to see the same people there every time. That's not a great comparison at all. I'd say my definition of MMO is fairly standard. Certainly more standard than looking to a multiplayer game for a solo experience.

I think at this point you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. It's pretty clear that neither of us are going to budge here.