I'm sorry but what they posted has truth to it. Saying it was ridiculous might have been a bit of a jab at you, but they were just being honest and likely not making a personal attack against you. You, on the other hand, attacking their possible native language though...says a lot about the kind of person you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor
TT has a pseudo leveling system to it where you have to collect more cards to "level up" and have stronger decks. Since collecting 60 cards is currently the "level cap" per se, it should not be easy to get to, nor do I think SE meant for it to be. Patch has been out less than a week, if they made it too easy there would be no content to do after day one.
-
03-03-2015, 06:24 AMMiste
-
03-03-2015, 06:29 AMRyuukishi
The content in this game is designed to keep people busy for months and years. Pace yourself. If you're trying to accomplish everything under the sun in one day, yeah maybe you're not going to have such a great time.
-
03-03-2015, 06:54 AMDoctorPepper
I agree with the OP in many ways. To me this game has too much RNG/grind for certain aspects that are supposed to be just for fun. I understand the devs want to extend the lifespan of the game but the simple fact is that it feels shitty seeing some people get drops with 1/10th the effort you put into them.
For example, back in the atma days pre-nerf I spent 14 hours in bentbranch trying to get an atma there while a friend of mine got lucky and had his entire set of atma in 12 hours.
I've also spent a good 10 hours sitting at Elmer playing TT at this point with no bahamut card to show for it, I'd say my win rate is around 60-80% give or take. I've also purchase 5 gold packs, got 3 momodi and 2 baderon. I get it, it's just bad luck, but it still makes a person feel like shit.
These are only 2 examples, I've experienced some good luck as well but these 2 things in particular made me question why I'm playing this game. Honestly, if it weren't for coil I don't know if I'd be here right now because I have most other things already completed and the few things I don't have done (like having multiple zodiacs) really don't seem appealing to me with the coming expansion and the amount of time it currently takes to do them. If they weren't as much of a grind I would be gladly taking part in things like big fishing and additional zodiacs. -
03-03-2015, 07:49 AMLatarma
12hrs+ running CopperBell Minds hm for my zodiac drop and it hasn't show up yet, i think it is time we moved away from RNG on everything. and no i don't have the answer tot he RNG issues i just know it's now working as many people have said.
-
03-03-2015, 07:57 AMGramul
They're going to do everything in their power to keep you playing as long as possible.
And that includes severe tests of will and resilience.
You're not meant to really win those super high end items every patch. They're just there to get you to keep you occupied. -
03-03-2015, 08:12 AMOphie-MioThe content in this game currently cannot keep people busy for years. If you freeze the game right now and put someone down in it, they will "complete" the basics of it within a few months. Hell, I had two 50's within a month and I still had a full time job and did things in my evening. The relic will delay you but unless you're hunkering down and doing multiple of them, it is still a game that can only occupy someone for a few months. Unless they are super casual that they can only play like twice a week for an hour or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuukishi
-
03-03-2015, 08:15 AMNoahlimits
950+ wins against the imperial and 15+ Prae's and I have 0 Gaius cards. I'm not complaining about it because RNG is RNG. It's part of the game. It'd also be unrewarding if you got everything handed to you on a silver platter. So /shrug.
-
03-03-2015, 09:18 AMIzsha
Rng, or lockouts. Those are the standard tools available for pacing content. Frequency (spamability of content) is always inversely related to success rate (gerti ng drop, fish, card, atma etc).
If something is infinitely spam able with no restrictions (original atma fates is a good example), the drop rate will be low. If something has a single attempt, or somehow 'expensive' (coil do once and locked) drop rate is 100% for items,.
Look at everythi ng with low droprates that's 'to much rng' and there's a trend.
Old atma. Fates are everywhere all the time. Can farm 24 7.
Alex fate drops. Same
Dungeon zodiac drops.
fishing. All day eryday.
npc TT challenges. All day eryday l.
ponies. Lawl.
also these things have no real 'cost'. This is why crafting has less rng than fishing, because materials and such make it slightly less spammable, while fishing is a 5 gil bait, or a lure that lasts near forever.
If you want less rng, you get restrictions on participation in the event (soft or hard lockouts of some type).
if something in an MMO can be done anytime, as much as you want, and costs virtually nothing to attempt, it's going to be rng, or just VERY grindy (nexus lights).
People say they want 'fun' content to replace grinds, but it's an illusion. No matter how they package it, a grind is a grind. It's going to be either rng, or just a giant quota. That's how you spend time in mmos. That's what they ARE. It's just busy work dressed up in fantasy. There is no getting rid of it.
The grindy stuff is designed as content without lock9uts so we have something to do when coil, wod, and tomes are capped for the week. To make it less grindy is to put play caps on it. Sure you can get a card every time you win against nocs. But you can only get 1 card a day/week. Gratz it's no longer a grind.....or is it.
The only choice is between rng or quota. Beat npc 200 times per card or have 0.5% droprate. Atma vs lights. Books vs zodiac dungeon drops. Some people like one better than the other so se has both in the game. But neither will make everyone hapoy. -
03-03-2015, 09:32 AMYukikoI have never meet anyone liking droprates that low!Quote:
Originally Posted by Izsha
When asking why defending low droprates it always ends up in something like "because others cant get it that easy..." and "just a few have it, when having it i am elite too..."
About grinding, its an artificial way to increase game time, but at cost of life energy and "fun"... if overused.
Compared to other MMOs grinding is like a path you walk across (mostly with experience points) but in ffxiv where everyone is lvl 50 we do not have any path to walk and SE thinks that they have to artificial increase game time. -
03-03-2015, 10:06 AMIzsha
The 200 vs 0.5% was just a hypothetical example. It could be 10 wins vs 10%. I was saying that given a choice between 200 kills or a 0.5% drop (same avg kills) some people prefer 1 over the other. Some like stuff like lights more than atma rng. Some dont.
My point is that mmos are designed intentionally to take time to complete objectives, and the pacing is set by devs. in a broad sense the pacing for content is broken into 2 categories. How often you can complete content and how often you get rewarded (latter sub divided into rng or a checklist.) Those are the 2 levers devs have to tweak content pacing. I'm not advocating a specific pacing, just that you don't just get to pull 1 lever without the other moving. If you want higher droprates, there's going to be more restrictions. Note the time window npcs have higher droprates than all day npcs.
The devs have chosen their pacing based on their update cycle and relevancy of content (nerf old content rates like atma later etc).
If you reduce rng you it doesn't go away. It gets replaced by either restrictions on content or a token system (do it 10 times instead of 10% drop rate etc) -
03-03-2015, 10:25 AMOoshimaExactly, which is why I didn't grind him for Hildi. None of the NPCs drops a card he/she doesn't use anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrimace
As a side not I got him after a few matches with Hab again last night while waiting for members to come online for raid lol. -
03-03-2015, 10:49 AMDiana_Pepper
So an update since I posted here last time, I finally received the Gaius card! \^.^/
I played over 2500 games (approaching 3000 or over possibly) with a total time of 36-40 hours. (And no, it's not an exaggeration. I could only wish it were. -.-)
Total rallied cards were:
Rhitahtyn - 264
Livia - 217 (not sure why Liv was less frequent than Rhi seeing as they're both 2*... RNG? xD)
Nero - 78
The sad thing is I'm going to still continue to play Imp to obtain more goodies from the shop. :/
Now at least, I won't be disappointed when I don't receive Gaius whilst farming. (which I bet Gaius will pop up now that I have one. -.-) -
03-03-2015, 10:52 AMOoshima
Meanwhile I am over 50 Shiva HM kills and still no damned Shiva card.
None of the 3 GC commanders are dropping their leader's card as well, only the 3* and 4* cards :/
57/60 cards right now. The struggle to 60 is real. -
03-03-2015, 11:02 AMKinkoz
Oh hey, yet another thread complaining about RNG drop rates.
It's almost like some of you only play the game only to acquire something, and not to actually, you know, enjoy playing the game.
If one (or more) aspect(s) of a game with a wide variety of different activities available is starting to lose it's fun factor, then go do something else for a while and try it again later. Some days you get things done and others you don't. Just the way things go when content is intentionally designed in a way that's meant to keep you playing. -
03-03-2015, 11:05 AMDeviant1Why do people think this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuukishi
No seriously... this game unlike ffxi is designed for 6 month windows tops. Once the 'next' major patch comes out, everything becomes degraded. Heros/turn 1-5 gear was special all the way up until 2nd coil... 2nd coil was special until final coil, and guess what will happen when the expansion raid comes out. the amount of vertical only progression will cause this game to cave in at some point.
SE probably wants the game to last years, but i doubt there will be that many from the launch that is still playing. That is the real reason everything is focused into having the advanced players go back and play with the brand new players. -
03-03-2015, 11:07 AMDeviant1Sorry, had to correct your typo... a letter 'L' snuck in there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinkoz
-
03-03-2015, 11:15 AMKinkozWell, you are paying to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviant1
-
03-03-2015, 11:30 AMPurrfectstorm
There are a lot of false dichotomies in this thread. There are more options to increase content longevity than grinds. You can have grinds without having absurdly low drop rates. You can want something a little easier without wanting it "handed to you." You can want some content/items easier without wanting them ALL easier (Kuno, the Killer, Bahamut Card, cough cough).
-
03-03-2015, 11:49 AMDarksword
A little grind never hurt nobody. :3
-
03-03-2015, 12:01 PMStarrywisdomExcept the part of guranteed time sinks; such as the minimum 800 hours of minigame time(unless you score well on crackpots) for your first mil[do the math - it's basic]. Which for the casual person is months. The minimum 80 hours to finish your first relic ; once again do the basic math assuming generic times per fate and drop rate - queue times as a DPS for dungons etc etc. Ignoring the original grind to 50. Ignoring the 12 or so hours of just cutscene time that's in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio
A 'casual' player I would say is someone that logs 2-4 hours 3 or so days a week. So let's say on average 10 hours a week - 40 hours a month. It would take them 2 months of all their login time to just complete their first relic to completion.
So rather then spouting your gibberish - do some basic mathmatics then come back. -
03-03-2015, 02:16 PMZumi
I don't think the grind for cards was that bad. Now the grind to get 1m mgp for fenrir now that will take a very long time.
-
03-03-2015, 02:22 PMsilentwindfrno, it's more the content of the game can't keep player with a loot of play time busy, but i will tell you something nice, the other mmorpg don't do better, actually they do worst. let's take wow, you don't get any new patch for 6-9 month, and the big patch barely have the same amount of content. i know some people will say: "yeah but them raid have more boss"Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio
yeah raid on orgrimmar had more of 10 boss....the time between the 5.3 and the 6.0 was 15 month.... 15 month without new addition.
FF14 have tons of content added over the same period. 15 month = 5 major patch for FF14.... the trouble is not the content but how people destroy it. -
03-03-2015, 02:45 PMSpawniei lol'd when he/she said cactpot was a bust it seems like he/she expected to win the million lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Rankina
-
03-03-2015, 02:51 PMSpawniethis if it was easy to obtain every rare item then they would be complaining how every1 has them i feel sory for SE no matter what they try always gonna be a small group of people whining about somethinQuote:
Originally Posted by Noahlimits
-
03-03-2015, 03:46 PMsilentwindfr
i think the main concern is about the limitation of the hand, right now 60 card for be allowed to use 3 star card is kinda hard.... but in a few month with the add of heavenward and more content more card will be added and people will not complain that much anymore. the trouble is to put a limitation behind some really heavy rng... that was not a smart move, if it was me i will have put the first hand at 20 card and the next one at 40, people will have enjoy more the game and you will have seen less complain about the unfair npc with insane hand.
ps: that don't take out the fact that recently the game have become a massive grindfest and overuse rng too much. is not at the level of some korean game, i admit it.... but it's not without reason that this sort of game don't work well outside asia.... difference of culture and such make it that we prefer enjoy the game more than spend countless hours to grind. i means we do pay for enjoy something different of our real life, not for get another jobs where we pay for take part into it!
mmorpg are a videon GAME it's nice to not forget it! -
03-03-2015, 09:14 PMAeyisCrafting less rng? 1% HQ and 90%+ NQ would like to have a word with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izsha
In regards to grinding or rng, se doesnt have a choice between both in the game. Because you need to defeat a npc 200 times to have a chance to get it, not a guaranty.
Oh hey yet another copy pasted reply that did not read the posts in said thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinkoz
For you, I think my signature might apply. -
03-03-2015, 11:41 PMNoxifer
Sorry in advance for Wall of Text.
Yeah, because players are still grinding first coil for its awesome powerful loot. Right? And still going at them HM primals to upgrade their weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuukishi
(Not talking about glamour purposes here, because that's 'optional' and 'not part of end-game'. *tries to keep face straight*)
Face it, with RNG affecting this much of a thing (almost every card beyond the first five you get), you're going to reach a point where it'll be impossible to play against others in tournaments and such because you've had bad luck and they have a full deck already. Unless you're playing with the rule that draws five random cards from your deck.
I like the suggestions made for gradually increasing the drop rate (it's been suggested before, too, back before the Atma drop increase). It would actually help make things a bit fairer, when you know you'll get that drop after 1-300 runs/matches/whatever instead of after 1-infinity.
Currently, RNG works a bit like it would be if /random wasn't 1-999 but open-ended and you rolled against others and tried to get the lowest number.
Key words 'a little'. Having RNG affecting that much of something is just bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksword
I'm still working on my first set of Atma books, mainly because I gave up on getting the Atma drops until the drop rate increase, and then struggled with my motivation to do them when I already had weapons of higher ilvl. Doing them together with two friends now who're on the same books, so that makes it easier.
Even so, I like the books a lot more than I liked Atma (or the later dungeon-drop grind), because you can see progress. It may be a somewhat dull grind, especially if you do it on your own, but you know there's a definite end. With the earlier Atma droprate, you could do the same dull grind (low-level fates) for hours, days or even weeks, without being able to see an end to it because you had no idea if you'd ever get that drop. (As a reference point, I had three Atma stones after almost five months, though I admit I'd stopped with the grinding and only did a few fates a day after the first three months. Had two before that, got one through the casual fate-running.)
To return to the topic of cards...
Doing the dungeons for Atma books, my flatmate (one of the people I'm doing them with) got a card drop from every place that could drop one (except for maybe one). I still haven't seen a single card drop from a dungeon.
I've played Elmer since release day, sometimes for an hour or two in a row, with a fairly consistent win rate, and in that time I've gotten two Godbert cards. No Bahamuts. Been mostly playing him to up my MGP, though, but it's still disheartening.
An LS friend managed to rack up around 850 soldiery off of Garuda HM runs, and had almost every weapon off of her before getting the Garuda card. Then got the Titan card after five runs.
And as for fishing... I still haven't gotten more than six HQ silver sovereigns, and one of those I got from a quick venture. I've pretty much stopped trying by now.
Yes, I know that I have a tendency to 'give up easily', but that's also because I know that if I go on I will only get more and more frustrated and eventually quit the game because it's no longer fun. So instead I opt out of doing content, which leaves me unable to do even try new content because I'm still on the earlier stages =/ It'd be a lot easier for me to go at it if I could actually see the finish line, instead of this vague 'oh, it'll drop eventually. maybe' that we have now. =/ -
03-04-2015, 12:46 AMIzshaI said less, not zero. You have some non rng control with skill use. If you think casting a line and praying is the same thing as leveling up cross class skills and using your brain while crafting to increase your odds more in your favor are the same level of rng, then we got bigger problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
I didn't mean a choice between one or the other for 1 type of content (although some do such as fate grinding for Alex vs buying alex maps. Rng vs quota collecting x items). I meant that there is both rng and quota systems spread throughout the game. Cards rng. Lights quota. Dungeon armor rng. Tome armor quota. Fishing rng. Etc. Some content is hybrid. Atma is both rng and quota (12 atmas). Alex/materia are rng and quota. Alex fates and materia success rng. Need 75 quota (also soldiery for maps quota).
There's a variety of content, but it all boils down to the pacing tools every game uses. Their pacing is designed to keep people busy for 3 to 6 months t buy the needed time to develop new content. It's not that the current content is built for YEARS, but to the next patch and by maintaining that pacing cycle, you can play for years. -
03-04-2015, 12:50 AMPurrfectstormYeah I probably shouldn't have mentioned the cactpot at all since many people incorrectly assume that I expected to win. What I was actually trying to point out was that after 8 hours of playing, all my luck was bad. It was this that I actually found frustrating. It wasn't because of any ONE thing. I think if I had fished for 8 hours and finally caught Kuno, or played cards for 8 hours and finally got Bahamut, or grinded Titan EX for 8 hours and finally got my pony, or went to log off and "oh look, hey I won the cactpot!" (or had ANY other positive experience) I would've felt differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawnie
My point was merely that an all day game session should yield at least ONE positive experience. My mistake was listing things that shouldn't have such low probabilities (Triple Triad drops, Big Fish) with things that SHOULD have low probabilities (the cactpot lotteries). I hope that people will focus on the point I'm trying to get across without becoming too fixated on the cactpot. The cactpot is fine as is. It was not my intent to give the impression that I expected to win or that it should be different. -
03-04-2015, 12:54 AMTiggyLiterally the entire genre of MMOs begs to differ. WoW had considerably worse RNG in some instances and it was massively more popular. Talking out of your rear or misinformed.Quote:
Originally Posted by silentwindfr
-
03-04-2015, 12:58 AMVynceNiore
Go play WoW, you don't gotta work hard for shit in that game anymore.
-
03-04-2015, 12:58 AMKinkozCool story, bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
-
03-04-2015, 01:31 AMAlberel
Seems my post on Smart RNG was missed so I'm posting it again as it is the solution to this issue. Every failed chance at a drop should increase the odds the next time you try for the same drop and resets when you get it.
If you have a 1% drop chance, every failed attempt increases the odds by a further 0.5%. After roughly 100 failed attempts (the point at which in a larger sample size you should have seen the drop) you'll now have a roughly 50% chance of getting it. Ultimately you'd get a 100% chance at the drop at 200 attempts, which is twice the average for obtaining that drop. This would keep the ultimate drop rate within the intended range but would prevent any extreme outliers on the unlucky end of the spectrum. There is no downside to doing this. Plenty of other games already use this system and it works perfectly. Smart RNG is 'more fun' than regular RNG because it guarantees you can't be so insanely unlucky that you can never progress.
Why more games don't use it I honestly have no idea... -
03-04-2015, 01:42 AMAeyisIndeed. Asian mmos have always been known for a massive amount of grinding required. Not for having horrible RNG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggy
WoW on the other hand had very little grind, even in its earlier days; but it had very horrible RNG. -
03-04-2015, 01:45 AMIzshaGrind is rng. They are 2 options that accomplish the same task. Quota system vs rng. Both require you to repeat something over and over. Quota says do something 10 times. Rng says 10% success rate. End result is player base as a whole spends X time (dev decided pacing) completing said content. Card farming I'd a grind (rng). Light farming is a grind (quota). They are synonymous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
Point in fact. Rag online. Leveling was giant grindy exp quota. Droprates in fractions of a %. Asian mmos aren't devoid of rng, just as westerns aren't devoid of quotas. You ever see achievement lists? Western games created a NEW approach to quota grinding.
Every mmo has both and both methods are functionally identical. The difference is how the brain interprets them. Rng triggers skinner box (this time I'll get it! Slot machine syndrome) to psychologically push you on. The quota system triggers constant tangible progress and our brains love incremental development. Change you can see.
Bot methods are effective and both methods are better liked by some over others. But the end result is the same in all cases. -
03-04-2015, 01:48 AMBreathlessTaoThere's the issue. Unless we're not aware of the fact that the pacing / update cycle is forced on them... Yes, they set it themselves. And on one hand, compared with some other games of the same genre, it's awesome that we get so much new (or "new" anyway) content so often. But on the other? Am I the only one sick and tired of the "we can't do this because we're focusing on that" and "the dev team is very small" excuses? Okay, maybe not 100% excuses, they can safely be assumed to be true, but nevertheless. So many ideas - heck, so many issues just get swept under the rug with these lines, because they "have" to stick to their own pacing and update schedules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izsha
While at the same time, consider this (and I'm not saying it's 100% accurate either, but a perspective nevertheless):
To a new player, every content is relevant. Obviously, not only because they want to, but because (in a way) they have to do it all. Talk about being overwhelmed when they can't even finish content from, say, patch 2.2, and there's already another batch of new stuff to do - on top of what 2.3, 2.4, 2.5 brought to the table? You don't even have to be an entirely new player and you still can easily have "leftovers" from previous patches that you couldn't yet complete for whatever reason. (Re: grinding for weeks or even months for a Novus when you can easily get an equivalent with a few dungeon runs in a week - and let's not even talk about moving on from Novus; yes, it's optional, but that doesn't mean some people wouldn't like to actually do it without feeling frustrated/meaningless while getting there, remember, it's a game you should have fun with.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Starrywisdom
And once more it has to be mentioned: Yoshi & co. themselves have reasoned the way thingsarewere, by now, the way theyarewere, because they wanted to make the game as casual-friendly as possible. That has gone down the drain quite a while ago. Because their team is too small, yet they "have" to stick to their update cycles because for some inexplicable reason, they feel they need to cater specially to that thin top layer of players that clocks in 4-8 hours of playtime at least 4 days a week and burn through everything and then complain they have nothing to do. As if they had no lives, or as if there was nothing outside of FFXIV to occupy themselves with - heck, I do love this game myself, but that doesn't mean this is the only one I play, I dunno, am I alone with that?? Yet, at the same time, in many aspects they're still holding our hands quite much and quite tightly, which again obviously not liked by older players by now, and of course all the more noticeable when in direct contrast of some other things in the game.
I have said this earlier, not once either, but for just one "cycle", maybe slowing down wouldn't hurt? Maybe it could help ease up on these ridiculous RNG-based grinds that are painfully obviously artificial walls for so many of us? Maybe it could contribute to certain issues getting fixed (completely random example, but Miqo'te tail clipping, which always gets shunned despite the whole race being implemented by the devs themselves - and despite the fact that the longer it's dragged out, the more stuff they'd have to eventually redesign if they ever got to it)? It's a weird and somewhat vicious cycle. And as someone already mentioned here: it is gonna cave in sooner or later. Personally, if there's one thing I hope for in Heavensward, it's exactly this: the narrowminded verticality to change into at least a little bit more horizontal.
DEAR SE, FOR THE LOVE OF THE TWELVE, DO AWAY WITH THIS GODSDAMNED STUPID CHARACTER LIMIT. -
03-04-2015, 02:23 AMVelhart
I still find it funny that people can't tell the difference between hard work and rolling a dice.
Simply put, the effort/luck ratio is greatly imbalanced. Both do have to exist to make a working system, but SE believes the best way to keep the content relevant is by going to certain extremes on the luck factor. The effort to obtain something should be equal among everyone. That is why I don't mind the light grinding from Novus > Nexus and Zodiac > Zeta. At least everyone has to earn the same amount of lights to progress to the next stage. You can't convince me it does not bother you when you are out doing FATE's for atma all day non-stop, and then someone joins you, gets it the first FATE, and moves on. It is understandable that grinds are a thing for the relic quest since it is mostly casual content, but there should be a set goal to work towards, not complete something then cross your fingers.
People need to feel like they are progressing to keep the momentum and interest in the game going. When you put systems like Atma or cards that never drop in battle content, people start losing interest and in extreme cases, quit the game all together. I know people who have quit Triple Triad already because the RNG is unreal to obtain cards. Not so much the difficulty in getting it as it is more of a bother that someone gets a card on the first try, and you are doing days worth of that content to get one just to end with nothing. It is understandable why people rage and leave the game alone when things like that happen.
Honestly, cards should of not been involved with battle content in the first place and stuck with NPC's. It is a lame and convenient excuse for SE to get people to venture into old content again. -
03-04-2015, 02:27 AMFranSeara
We agree again Tiggy!! Yeap, you may have to work for things in this game. Luckly, the devs have made MOST things uneeded to enjoy MOST of the game.
Good Day! -
03-04-2015, 02:35 AMVelhartSo is it hard work when you go in, get a card on your first run, then leave while other people spent days worth trying to get it?Quote:
Originally Posted by FranSeara
-
03-04-2015, 02:42 AMFranSeara
I've never once farmed for cards but I have ALL the primals so far. Thanks relic quest!!