The relic weapon quest is OBSCENELY boring...

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Originally Posted by Meier

Relics were nice in 1.0 and when the game first came out. Then...they became something to keep old content relevant.

Thankfully SE said that they know we want boss fights and Yoshida was all for putting back in boss fights instead of this reused old content junk we have now.

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When did he say this? Please provide me a source I would really like to believe you on this

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Originally Posted by Battlewrench

To be fair, I've done a number of hard mode and ex dungeons drunk / asleep and still made it through healing them.....Take that as you will. Bad quest is bad though.

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Ah, but were you Netflixing at the time as well? ;)

IMO, healing the Midgardsomr fight is the minimum level of challenge tht any fight should have, including the between quests for the relic weapon (if there were any, I mean).

We're honestly at a point of the game where content is overly abundant. Not necessarily a bad thing, in fact, the good outweigh the bad noticeably, but it changes the approach people have with content. Besides certain straight forward activities, the grind aspect of traditional MMORPGs is taboo. Things are readily available now, but being bottlenecked to the point of tedium. Mind you, this is NOT a comment on lockouts and raid specific gear. This is simply a remark on development philosophy.

I can appreciate the grind, but the grind only truly existed on the players terms. With Atma, it was about as close as this game got to the old grind. It honestly felt very nostalgic. When you reached Animus, it was back to the newer model, where the focus was the end, not your actual progress. An example of what I'm getting at is player reaction while progressing between both Atma and Animus. Did you cheer when you killed 10 of X mobs for your book? Heck, did you cheer when you finished a book? Maybe, but probably not. Did you cheer when you finally got that one Atma? I'm willing to bet you did. THAT is the feeling of the old grind. You appreciated every progressive outcome of the grind. The thing is though, it was no longer on our terms once the Atma step was complete.

When you start to force players into grouping with each to support this grind, that's where it starts to weigh heavily on us, even from old school MMORPG standards. We no longer have the choice to play by our terms, but are forced to submit to not just the system, but other players. The grind is daunting enough that we don't need to be harassed, griefed, or otherwise subjected to failure because of someones intentional attempts to ruin the play of everyone (not just the relic goer). Due to the system this game follows, and the point of content we are currently at, the style of grind that the relic weapons are do not promote much in the way of "fun". Truth be told, the relic weapons (Zodiac) are a testament to ones accomplishments in getting it. There's no denying that. But we're not playing a game that keeps these items on level of importance (like FFXI, vanilla WoW, etc). The relic weapons are constantly changing along side newly introduced weapons that are generally better or more efficient to obtain. The bragging rights are nowhere near as satisfying for this reason, and as a result, it's not so much the weapon as it is your journey that you brag about. "I endured more of a PITA method to obtain a weapon than others"... grats? Even the lore behind them in XIV is rather lackluster. Godbert's hammer strikes me as far more interesting of a weapon to wield.

I'm not aiming to demean anyone's accomplishments, in fact, I extend an honest admiration to them. I'm just pointing out that, while it was fine in 1.0 and the first half of ARR, the lack of a shift in design philosophy (to compliment how much content is available). This isn't so much a jab at what is required, so much as it is a lack of intent to change what worked. We don't need more people to do FATEs. We don't need more random people doing relic quests to queue for early dungeons (since there's a very high chance that any 50s you encounter aren't there for relic). Keep in mind, I say that within some context. Of course there's a need for people to queue, but the amount of people who do them for relic isn't exactly the sole reason why people actually get a queue.

Meh there's coil for fun/challenge though? I've grown accustomed to these regular gruelling tests of masochism now. That extreme dread knowing theres a new relic quest just around the corner, me telling my friend everyday " it wont be that bad will it?" to which he responds " nope it will be terrible" xD

An up to date relic is a great thing to have. Safe-guards against slow progress and bad rng in coil too. IMO yes it's worth it, will I say this next Tuesday? probably not xD

There is a breed of people that like solo oriented, laid back grinds. For the love of cake don't bind relics to 24 man troll fests. CT is so full of trolls and derp I never touch it unless I have too. Why would I want to spam a nightmarish 24 man derp fest when I can unwind after a stressful day and just veg out and grind some easy stuff. There are entire games built on concepts line these relic trials and they have tons of players too. We are out there. Not everything needs to be some epic skill check raid or test in troll survival. There is a place for rudimentary simple mindless grinds. Some people do enjoy fishing. Some do enjoy spamming fates. Some do like repetitive simple combat class grinds. Just because you don't doesn't make it wrong. Look at anyone with multiple relics and you found someone. There's a lot of us around.

If you want a weapon from 24 man raids go get your 110s, or soon 130 when they add it to WoD. If you want a skill check weapon go get your coil on. If you want a lighter skill check go do shiva. If you want laid back grind get you relic. Why turn relic into the same type of progression that already exists. You have 24 man raid spam weapons, high skill check and lower skill check weapons. Leave the only laid back grind for those that want it.

While the Relic Quest may be not fun, its a must for players like myself ( solo, anti-raid and late night players) to complete. I fear without this quest there wouldnt be any reason for me to keep playing this game. Now, I do wish the Devs would have given US a REAL quest, one that would keep the mealy mouthed of the hard core/so-called raiders shut. the relic weapon(s) should be the best weapon(s) in the game but with this sorry excess of quest it's NOT and it shouldnt be. Devs,please give relic users a Real quest in the future. One that is hard enough that only a few will complete it. (Just like the COILS). ps: Pleae dont nerf the relic quest in its later parts please, its a ripoff.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

Devs,please give relic users a Real quest in the future. One that is hard enough that only a few will complete it. (Just like the COILS). ps: Pleae dont nerf the relic quest in its later parts please, its a ripoff.

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This is something that will never happen. Given that the majority of the player base are "casuals" whom want to feel like their time spent playing this game has some type of measurable meaning, this is something that will never happen. If anything, they will make the 2.0 process much much easier, and make the 3.0 relic easier so that people aren't having such troubles with it.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

Devs,please give relic users a Real quest in the future. One that is hard enough that only a few will complete it. (Just like the COILS).

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You clearly missed the entire point of the weapon and quest line even though you seem to understand the target audience.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

ps: Pleae dont nerf the relic quest in its later parts please, its a ripoff.

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The relic quest has already been nerfed in the form of higher Atma drop rates. Phasing out old tokens also indirectly nerfed the difficulty of the quest line. Remember the 900 Myth that took 3 weeks? Now it's 450 Soldiery which can be done leisurely in a weekend (in one night if you're up to it).

I'm not sure how the devs initially positioned the relic with the +1 quest line, but as it stands now it is obviously something that takes time and only time. In a sense it's the "everybody's weapon". Remember this weapon is called a relic weapon, not an epic weapon, so it doesn't necessarily follow that it should be difficult to obtain.

It would be great if the game offers some types of "end-game weapon" for every playstyle, a coils weapon for raiders, a relic weapon for leisure players, an epic weapon for hardcore non-raiders, etc. But there's a limit to how much creative resources can be invested in the weapon, and that's most likely why there are only two end-game progressions: raiders and non-raiders.

Too many non-raiders wanted to have nothing to do with the highest tier of raiding content (e.g. Titan HM back then). I guess that's why the current relic is all about time and patience.

The category of "difficult to get weapons" is already catered for by raids.

The category of "difficult to get weapons" is already catered for by raids.[/QUOTE]

Your last statment is the problem with this WHOLE entire game.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

CT is so full of trolls and derp I never touch it unless I have too. Why would I want to spam a nightmarish 24 man derp fest when I can unwind after a stressful day and just veg out and grind some easy stuff.

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I'm sorry, but you're thinking of hunts, not raids.

I've run so many 24 man raids that I've earned over half of my weekly poetics doing them and I can safely say that you're either the unluckiest person ever when it comes to queuing or you're exaggerating like crazy.

And you want leisurely grinds? Go fishing. There's no reason for the relic weapon quest to be as boring AND devoid of storyline as it is. You don't seem to understand the fact that something can be both time-consuming AND fun, and not "masochist who enjoys boredom fun" but REAL fun.

I'm surprised there are no pet grinds in FFXIV: many of the mobs in WoW have a .01% chance of dropping a pet, the DEFINITION of boring grind, but it's there for people like you.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

Your last statment is the problem with this WHOLE entire game.

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And its a completely different argument than this thread is trying to make. This is the casual weapon where you just need time. The 135 from T13 is the difficult to obtain through fighting. You clearly want something more in the middle. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with the other two approaches it just means more options are required that fit different styles. Variety is the problem. Not that a good piece of gear drops from raiding. Focus your message cause it seems scattered every other post.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Your last statment is the problem with this WHOLE entire game.

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And its a completely different argument than this thread is trying to make. This is the casual weapon where you just need time. The 135 from T13 is the difficult to obtain through fighting. You clearly want something more in the middle. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with the other two approaches it just means more options are required that fit different styles. Variety is the problem. Not that a good piece of gear drops from raiding. Focus your message cause it seems scattered every other post.[/QUOTE]

I don't think my Posts are scattered. You just NEVER agree with anything I say. Which is ONE more big problem with this game. The player base always seems tore in two. "The main point is the quest is boring and broken and needs to be redesigned." End of Statement

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

The player base always seems tore in two. "The main point is the quest is boring and broken and needs to be redesigned." End of Statement

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That may have something to do with the fact there is only the casual and raid options in the game. Like I explicitly said in my previous post. With more options in the middle it wouldn't be as segregated thus largely fixing your perceived issues. The problem isn't the players being stratified. The problem is the game forces you to make a decision about what type of content you want to engage in and then you're in either one group or the other. You don't see the forest for the trees anymore when you sit around blaming the players for simply responding the content the game actually has. More options, like I said previously with a middle game option, would fix this. Stop trying to blame players for something the game clearly pushes them to do and we might start agreeing more often. You're so concerned with being right that you don't even see the truth in what people are telling you. I literally just pointed out that there are two different styles and then you go to blame the players for being split that way. Do you not see what's right in front of you?

Simply a raid option existing isn't a problem and neither is a farming casual option existing a problem. The problem is there is nothing in between so your forced to an extreme by default.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

And its a completely different argument than this thread is trying to make. This is the casual weapon where you just need time.

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Know what else was fairly casual? The Hildebrand storyline, and yet it managed to not be skull-crushingly boring.

Imagine the Hildebrand storyline, minus the interesting characters, the funny jokes and whatnot. What's left? A barely-explained quest where you run around and do random shit for no particular reason.

That's the relic weapon questline in a nutshell, and the fact that it's so bland and boring makes it stick out like a sore thumb against all of the other story objectives in the game. Even the crafting and gathering professions have storylines associated with them, FFS! But the relic weapon quest devolves to someone telling you to go check off a big laundry list of random crap because...reasons.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Know what else was fairly casual? The Hildebrand storyline, and yet it managed to not be skull-crushingly boring.

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Because you're ignoring the obvious to try and make some sort of misguided point. The hildebrand story line was intended to be consumed quickly and the weapon was in no way intended to be consumed quickly. These two pieces of content are not similar enough in intent to make this comparison. "Casual" is not enough.

People need to step back and remember that this quest line was added solely to give casual players something to do and as an alternative means to get a powerful weapon. It serves those points perfectly. You're expecting it to be something it was never meant to be, and then acting disappointed. Your expectations are out of whack what with what the quest was intended to do.

Simply a raid option existing isn't a problem and neither is a farming casual option existing a problem. The problem is there is nothing in between so your forced to an extreme by default.

Agree, more middle road non-raid options would be helpful. Anything take away the Stigma of the relic qeust being casul would be nice. The Relic quest should have a hard core "post mode" not for everyone, fun quest line.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Your expectations are out of whack what with what the quest was intended to do.

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1. As I already stated, WoW (which thrives on casual players) did the same thing without making it boring as hell.

2. Since when was "Giving casual players something to do" an excuse for no storyline?

Seriously, in a game series known for its EPIC storylines, why does the relic weapon questline have next to NONE?

It's just lazy. I understand that the questline was intended to give casuals something to do. No one is arguing that, but none of that excuses it being as bland and lazy as it is.

That's like the people who make terrible entertainment and then say, "Eh, it's for children, what do you expect?" when GOOD kids' entertainment is enjoyable even by adults.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

2. Since when was "Giving casual players something to do" an excuse for no storyline?

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It did have a story line. I've been watching it each step of the way over the last 2.5 months that it took me to complete it. Not only did it have main characters but it had supporting roles that developed some lore in their own right. Just because you aren't happy with what it had doesn't mean you can go around lying saying it didn't have a story line. It most certainly did. I personally rather enjoyed the process of creating the most epic weapon in the realm. Hero's don't make weapons. Craftsman do. The quest clearly was very tightly tied to the craftsman. I don't know what you really expected otherwise. Defeat some epic monster or something? That's what you DO with epic weapons. Not how you make them. Even most of the quest line was gathering materials to perform a process on the weapon.

Also what do people expect in grindy content? A cut scene every so often telling you you're good at grinding? At some point you need to walk away from the NPCs and just do work. What kind of story would even be "epic" in the context of forging a weapon for you? Instead of just saying it's bad why not suggest what you would consider good. That would be more productive.

Even if that isn't what you expect what was so wrong with the Zodiac phase? 1 big quest with 4 small quests each with their own characters, cut scenes, and lore. Lot's more cutscenes. More NPC engagement. What's so wrong with that approach?

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

[...]the relic weapon quest devolves to someone telling you to go check off a big laundry list of random crap because...reasons.

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The lore behind the process of bringing back the relic from the ashes and making it stronger and stronger is actually well defined and makes quite a lot of sense.

The least interesting step within the questline is in fact the Zenith one. The process of infusing the weapon with a fake soul is never well explained.
This point aside, the rest of the questline hold up quite well.

Sure, there's (almost) no humor or cutscenes involved, unlike the Hildibrand storyline, but the lore and the explanations do exist.

Your weapon doesn't glow from a step to another just because "reasons".

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

I'm sorry, but you're thinking of hunts, not raids.

I've run so many 24 man raids that I've earned over half of my weekly poetics doing them and I can safely say that you're either the unluckiest person ever when it comes to queuing or you're exaggerating like crazy.

And you want leisurely grinds? Go fishing. There's no reason for the relic weapon quest to be as boring AND devoid of storyline as it is. You don't seem to understand the fact that something can be both time-consuming AND fun, and not "masochist who enjoys boredom fun" but REAL fun.

I'm surprised there are no pet grinds in FFXIV: many of the mobs in WoW have a .01% chance of dropping a pet, the DEFINITION of boring grind, but it's there for people like you.

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sadly there not, i get it all the time,im glad i dont have to run them anymore. http://i61.tinypic.com/1zpgokh.jpg

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Did you cheer when you finally got that one Atma? I'm willing to bet you did.

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Oh, !@#$% no. I was either smashing my mouse/keyboard so hard they almost broke, or I was so burnt-out I just barely even noticed I can go to another zone.
You mention the keyword yourself: progression. To be more precise - the sense of progression. With Atma, there is none; granted, it's much better now than it was pre-nerf, but the fact still is that you have no idea whether you need to do 100 FATEs for the next one to drop, or just 2, because it's basically simple lottery. The books aren't any more fun either, that's true, but at least you do know where you are with that progression.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

Agree, more middle road non-raid options would be helpful. Anything take away the Stigma of the relic qeust being casul would be nice. The Relic quest should have a hard core "post mode" not for everyone, fun quest line.

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Something like this?

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Step 1 - Earn 25,000 seals and buy the key item "On the Properties of Beastmen"

Step 2 - Obtain Inferno Seal x3, Tremor Seal x3, Vortex Seal x3 from Rank 2 Hamlet (gold chest requiring 60K+ scores)
(Note: Step 1 & 2 can be completed in any order)

Step 3 - Talk to Rowena and Exchange for a Soiled Promissory Note

Step 4 - Go to Gerolt and start Quest "A Relic Reborn"

Step 5 - Gather HQ mats and craft or buy Class-Only Weapons (prefferably HQ)

Step 6 - Double meld the gear with 2 Teir IV Materia of a specific Type as follows:
PLD = Mailbreaker + Heaven's Eye IV (Accuracy)
MNK = Avengers + Manathirst IV (+MP)
WAR = Rampager + Touch of Rage IV (Emnity)
DRG = Obelisk + Savage Might IV (Crit Attack)
BRD = Sarnga + Heaven's Eye IV (Accuracy)
WHM = Alkaurops + Mind IV (Mind)
BLM = Astrolobe + Hell's Fist IV (Magic Potency)
(Note: Steps 5 & 6 can be completed prior to starting the quest)

Step 7 - Kill chief NM of one specified Stronghold for the 'broken weapon' item
PLD = Flamefist Ahlygg Roh in Zahar'ak
MNK = Flamefist Ahlygg Roh in Zahar'ak
WAR = Third Order Patriarch Zu Ga in U'Gamaro
DRG = Lozol Totoloq the Decapitator in Natalan
BRD = Lozol Totoloq the Decapitator in Natalan
WHM = Third Order Patriarch Zu Ga in U'Gamaro
BLM = Third Order Patriarch Zu Ga in U'Gamaro

Step 8 - Turn in the Broken Weapon and the Double Meld to Gerolt

Step 9 - Gather 3 Miser's Mythril in Aurum Vale. The 6th chest will appear as long as you have the Relic Quest started. Completing the dungeon in 17 minutes or less gives a 100% item drop. Longer runs still have a chance of drop, but it is a low %. Hand them in to Gerolt

Step 10 - Gather 3 Alumina Salts in Cutter's Cry. Same deal as Step 9. Hand in to Gerolt

Step 11 - Gather a certain number of beastcoins from the appropriate beatmen tribe (10 stacks Tier 1 OR 5 stacks Tier 2 OR 1 stack Tier 3)
PLD = 990 of the Bronze Amalj'ok OR 495 of the Iron Amalj'ok OR 99 Darksteel Amalj'ok
MNK = 990 of the Bronze Amalj'ok OR 495 of the Iron Amalj'ok OR 99 Darksteel Amalj'ok
WAR = 990 of the Titan Copperpiece OR 495 of the Titan Mythrilpiece OR 99 Titan Electrumpiece
DRG = 990 of the Ixali Willowknots OR 495 of the Ixali Mapleknots OR 99 Ixali Ebonknots
BRD = 990 of the Ixali Willowknots OR 495 of the Ixali Mapleknots OR 99 Ixali Ebonknots
WHM = 990 of the Titan Copperpiece OR 495 of the Titan Mythrilpiece OR 99 Titan Electrumpiece
BLM = 990 of the Titan Copperpiece OR 495 of the Titan Mythrilpiece OR 99 Titan Electrumpiece
(Note: THe farming of coins can be completed at any time before this point)

Step 12 - Gather Item "Enchiridion" from one of the chests at the end of Dezmael Darkhold

Step 13 - Gather item "Allagan Band" from completing a r45 behest in Iron Lake, Broken Water or Nine Ives

Step 14 - Gather item "Oschon's Finger Charm" from completing a caravan escort with a perfect run (1,000/1,020 seals) at Skull Valley, Drybone or Treespeak.

Step 15 - Exchange the beastcoins and the items from Step 12-14 to Rowena for a 'manuscript' item with the information needed to complete the weapon construction.

Step 16 - Hand the item to Gerolt to obtain the "Unfinished" Weapon (it won't have colour)

Step 17 - Raise the Spiritbond of the weapon to 100%
(Note: have to do it solo)

Step 18 - Obtain the appropriate Faction Levequest from the Adv Guild for 100 faction points. Complete the faction (kill NM) with the weapon equipped
PLD = Operation: Tailspin from Brotherhood of the Broken Blade
MNK = Wanted: Striped Lightning from Azeyma's Shields
WAR = Operation: Deepground from Brotherhood of the Broken Blade
DRG = Wanted: Ursulien The Unseen from Azeyma's Shields
BRD = Operation: Leaving The Nest from Brotherhood of the Broken Blade
WHM = Wanted: Porus from Azeyma's Shields
BLM = Wanted: Princess Pudding from Azeyma's Shields

Step 19 - Defeat Garuda
(Note: Garuda has to be defeated in a certain amount of time & no deaths)

Step 20 - Defeat Ifrit (Extreme)

Step 21 - Collect your Relic Weapon

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That was the 1.0 version? Rough looking.

Actualy at nexus step. and I totaly lost interest in upgrading my weapon. I can't even track my progression without a third party software, and having to spam the same HM content again and again is killing me. No challenge, no thrill, nothing. it's the most boring step of relic so far. If only I could find a static and give up this horrible thing once for all...

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

It did have a story line

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The first part has a neat storyline, but that drops off sharply when they tell you to go start enhancing the weapon by grinding old content.

It's a flimsy pretense to force us into old content.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Sure, there's (almost) no humor or cutscenes involved

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And as one of the quests that a very large number of people are likely to do, that's why I expected better.

More people will probably (try) the relic weapon quest than will max crafting/gathering professions and yet those have storylines, cutscenes and humor worthy of a FF game.

And NONE of this excuses how boring it is. WoW's legendary questline lasted the entire expansion, was the BEST story in the game (though that may not be saying much, though it was extremely interesting), rewarded you with absolutely BiS items, and most importantly, it did ALL of this WITHOUT resorting to giving you a laundry list of old content to slog through.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Something like this?

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Gods no! It made me remember all the steps needed to get a legendary weapon on Guild Wars 2... that was a nightmare. I though that the relic quest line was "kinda fun" until I reached the books part, it's so tedious and boring to do each book, sure, you can do them faster if you get someone to help you with the dungeons, but it's still a boring grind.

Can't imagine all the frustration that people had when atmas where at a low drop rate. :S

And its also a slap in the face for casuals. First, lest define casual gamer properly. The casual gamer is considered casual because of the time put into game, whether said time is available or just what they want to spend playing game, not because of skill level of game. Casual players are not lemmings or children that just play blindly and are just ok with hitting 2 buttons all day. Casual players are casual because of time invested.


Now, like previous poster has said, the problem with this game is that there only two ways to play. Either doing slow monotonous boring grinding or trying to raid. SE (and lots of others in this community) have a problem with how they perceive "casual" gamers. Casual gamers are not stupid. Casual gamers are not mindless zombies. Casual gamers are not just content with easy stuff. I consider myself a hybrid gamer. There are days when I have nothing to do and I can play games all day, hardcore. But also there is this thing called life. And not everyone is living the same one. So because of that, there are people that just can't put in the time to do some of the things in this game like relic grind. But also, those same people don't have the time to form statics, have time to be dedicated to certain times to play with others to enjoy end game content. Where are those people to play? The main problem with this game that many are having is the "time" you have to put in to do either of the two options in this game. I like to play all at one time as much as I can, but there are days where i only have maybe 1 hr or 2 each day for the whole week. So stop using the word "casual" so casually when talking about a group of players.

Now, I like a challenge. Time grinding same low lvl dungeon for hours and low lvl fates for hours for RNG is not a "challenge" as far a gaming goes. It has less to do with game skills and more to do with enduring monotonous boring stuff for hours, which many casual gamers do not have. Casual gamers are just asking for an increase in difficulty, increase in story/lore, increase in fun. All of you elitist think that if you are not hardcore, you must be casual. That's far from the truth. And the faster SE and the majority of this community realize this, the better the game will get.

lol...close Felis. As stated before I'd like the Relic quest in later stages to have a more Epic feel to it (hard core mode) anything to give the weapons SOME value. As it stands now, I feel the quest in dead in the water and boring. If nothing is done with the relic quest I fear, I wont be resubbing after Heavenward hits. (Sorry, I know no one cares..)

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

lol...close Felis. As stated before I'd like the Relic quest in later stages to have a more Epic feel to it (hard core mode) anything to give the weapons SOME value. As it stands now, I feel the quest in dead in the water and boring. If nothing is done with the relic quest I fear, I wont be resubbing after Heavenward hits. (Sorry, I know no one cares..)

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maybe with some luck, we have a "do Titan (extreme) with no deaths) requirement in the last step? ^^

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Originally Posted by QiLymePye

And its also a slap in the face for casuals. First, lest define casual gamer properly. The casual gamer is considered casual because of the time put into game, whether said time is available or just what they want to spend playing game, not because of skill level of game. Casual players are not lemmings or children that just play blindly and are just ok with hitting 2 buttons all day. Casual players are casual because of time invested.

Now, like previous poster has said, the problem with this game is that there only two ways to play. Either doing slow monotonous boring grinding or trying to raid. SE (and lots of others in this community) have a problem with how they perceive "casual" gamers. Casual gamers are not stupid. Casual gamers are not mindless zombies. Casual gamers are not just content with easy stuff. I consider myself a hybrid gamer. There are days when I have nothing to do and I can play games all day, hardcore. But also there is this thing called life. And not everyone is living the same one. So because of that, there are people that just can't put in the time to do some of the things in this game like relic grind. But also, those same people don't have the time to form statics, have time to be dedicated to certain times to play with others to enjoy end game content. Where are those people to play? The main problem with this game that many are having is the "time" you have to put in to do either of the two options in this game. I like to play all at one time as much as I can, but there are days where i only have maybe 1 hr or 2 each day for the whole week. So stop using the word "casual" so casually when talking about a group of players.

Now, I like a challenge. Time grinding same low lvl dungeon for hours and low lvl fates for hours for RNG is not a "challenge" as far a gaming goes. It has less to do with game skills and more to do with enduring monotonous boring stuff for hours, which many casual gamers do not have. Casual gamers are just asking for an increase in difficulty, increase in story/lore, increase in fun. All of you elitist think that if you are not hardcore, you must be casual. That's far from the truth. And the faster SE and the majority of this community realize this, the better the game will get.

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^ this. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

Simply a raid option existing isn't a problem and neither is a farming casual option existing a problem. The problem is there is nothing in between so your forced to an extreme by default.

Agree, more middle road non-raid options would be helpful. Anything take away the Stigma of the relic qeust being casul would be nice. The Relic quest should have a hard core "post mode" not for everyone, fun quest line.

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what?

there are TONS OF OPTIONS atm

free 110 weapon if u do ST , buy weathered weapon with soldiery , get a tome and sand = instant 110 , the only hard thing is winning the roll , since ppl roll need to everything there...

115 weapons on shiva (u gonna need to farm her for dust so u will get your weapon eventually)

ironwork weapons 120 , and probably augmented weapons 130 in gold saucer patch (tome and carbotwine in WoD )

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

The first part has a neat storyline, but that drops off sharply when they tell you to go start enhancing the weapon by grinding old content.

It's a flimsy pretense to force us into old content.

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You may not approve of it's quality, but it's still story. Story that persists the entire way through. I just finished my Nexus yesterday so to me it was abundantly clear there was still story. You're quite simply wrong on this point. You can have your opinion that it's bad story, but you can't have the opinion that is has none. Only one of those is an opinion where as the other is objectively false.

However thank you for GLEEFULLY ignoring the rest of my post where I asked deeper questions that might get us somewhere and you instead just try to refuse that one minor point that only supports your opinion anyway. GG. You fail at constructive discussions.

Warln, we're getting off topic here but... My opinions of weathered weapons: Are for lazy players, who are too lazy to do the relic quest. "Remember these are my opinions!" Shiva weapons: Again takes little skill to get carried by FC of Raid group to get Shiva weapons ( I know, I've played with some FCOB Item 130 Shiva weapon users, who can't beat Shiva Ex in DF, lol) Ironworks weapons: try hard weapons for try hard players ( players that use these in FCOB get a pass here) The Relics wil end up at item level 130-135 so Ironworks users can kiss it!!

ps: I have 3 Zodiac weapons (soon to be 4 then 5) at item level 125 my Sol and Shiva weapons are being used my retainers....LOL

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

And as one of the quests that a very large number of people are likely to do, that's why I expected better.

More people will probably (try) the relic weapon quest than will max crafting/gathering professions and yet those have storylines, cutscenes and humor worthy of a FF game.

And NONE of this excuses how boring it is. WoW's legendary questline lasted the entire expansion, was the BEST story in the game (though that may not be saying much, though it was extremely interesting), rewarded you with absolutely BiS items, and most importantly, it did ALL of this WITHOUT resorting to giving you a laundry list of old content to slog through.

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Well, that's a different matter. You said, in short, that the relic questline didn't had a lore/story.
I just posted to say that it was false, this quesline has a background, and a good one.

I'm sorry you didn't feel that way, but working with the best blacksmith of Eorzea who tries to kill me by sending me in whatever dangerous place so he can go back making kettles and be drunk all day, and then meet a foreign savant who know ways to break the limits of normal materia melding and spiritbonding while infusing living souls into a legendary weapon, and then to use that ultimate nexus weapon to simply make a materia out of it to recreate a Zodiac weapon with the help of a lot of NPC folks out there...

... that was pretty "legendary" to me.

Yes, the grinding process behind that was quite tedious in terms of gameplay, but the actual lore and story of the quest itself is quite good.
Besides, I cannot care less about WoW.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

You may not approve of it's quality, but it's still story. Story that persists the entire way through. I just finished my Nexus yesterday so to me it was abundantly clear there was still story.

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A story? Where? I can only recall a couple of empty phrases announcing the most boring grind ever.

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Originally Posted by Aurora-Pendragon

A story? Where? I can only recall a couple of empty phrases announcing the most boring grind ever.

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Your lack of memory isn't the point.

Any progress strictly related to RNG is a complete joke in my mind. After going 35 consecutive dungeon runs without one of my relic drops, I gave up. 0 progress made running boring old content over and over. I'm done.

I'll never understand how people can hate their lifes so much.

What amuses me most is that Yoshi said something along the lines of "If it isn't fun, you shouldn't do it." I loved the original Relic quest chain. It wasn't RNG from drops, but was more skill. Once you learned the fights, maybe got a little gear, you could complete it, every time. I wish they'd have made the rest of them similar; require the new primals, different modes of primals, add some new bosses that aren't primals but required for relics (ala Hydra and Chimera).

As a player who just came back to the game after a long break, the current trend of "content" is a bit disheartening. I have no desire to work on my relics past Zenith, not even because there is other stuff available, but because all I see before me is a boring grind.