Dear SE, Yoshi, etc, remove Coil lock outs. Right now.

Friend list; 200 people.
Free Company; 512 people
Linkshell; 128 people.

Having all your content be 8-man or less with raid lockouts?

Priceless.

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Originally Posted by Edli

Or just allow running it with another class. Is that simple.

The problem here is that SE still doesn't understand the huge flaw with their class design when it comes to lockouts. They did it the same way every other MMO does it just because every other MMO does it without realizing what impact it will have in their unique way of how they handle classes.

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Please implement this ASAP. I have all DOW classes levelled to 50 and I have not touched 6 of those classes for over a month. I use smn to raid, blm for speed runs, whm and warrior occasionally when tanking or healing roulette with friends or fc. The other jobs are essentially rotting away. If I had known what I was getting into I would have rolled 9 different characters and have 9 separate lockouts, not to mention much more gil from levelling quests.

Playing alt characters are important for many mmo players. Some of us get bored with our main classes after a while and we would like to challenge high level content playing a different role. Also, because of the way the game is structured around statics, sometimes one member of that static cannot make the raid so some of us with that class might want to switch to fill that void. Of course, this will also prolong the content at the same time not having many super geared players but many more semi geared players

As it stands currently, the only benefit of investing a large amount of time getting all jobs to 50 is "The Professional" title. Pretty underwhelming imo.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

If you want to play "alt characters" then the far more feasible way is to actually create another character. The armoury system is nice in theory but it's handicapped by weekly lockouts such as soldiery and coil.

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Yeah like I said if I could turn back time I would. But I don't feel like levelling another class that I already have at 50 from scratch. The premise of the armoury system is good, except for this one oversight.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

Playing alt characters are important for many mmo players.

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If you want to play "alt characters" then the far more feasible way is to actually create another character. The armoury system is nice in theory but it's handicapped by weekly lockouts such as soldiery and coil.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

Friend list; 200 people.
Free Company; 512 people
Linkshell; 128 people.

Having all your content be 8-man or less with raid lockouts?

Priceless.

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Gone are the days of 28-men party in sky :(

Do a gear lockout wherein when you have rolled on an item (regardless of winning or not), it locks you for rolling. This way, people can still help others out.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Okay, I'll get straight to the point.

It's sunday, there's a Turn 8 party finder group, and I'd love to run it.

But I can't. Why not?
I have my coil static running it tonight and if I beat it I won't be able to run with them because I'll be locked out. So I'm bored out of my mind with PVP queues being between 10 and 30 minutes until prime time thanks to the regional servers.

This issue happened on friday too. Some friends and I had no plans, we had the people to run Coil 2, but we couldn't. Why? We are friends divided in three statics with different friends.

I'm sick and tired of being unable to play with my friends, or with strangers, the content I want to play. Crystal tower already implemented lock outs on drops, why don't you implement something similar instead of just forbidding people to play with whom they want to play?

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https://i.imgur.com/hsgFsQG.gif

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Originally Posted by Zephyranthes

Do a gear lockout wherein when you have rolled on an item (regardless of winning or not), it locks you for rolling. This way, people can still help others out.

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Horrible idea on the just rolling part unless you want to see even more Coil reserved parties with nobody willing to roll on anything period unless a run is dedicated to them.

I do agree on a loot lock after completion but not one for JUST rolling lol

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Originally Posted by Meier

Seconding this.

People's RL schedules are constantly changing and having to meet very sepcific times and days is sometimes impossible.

Also it creates drama where there needs to be none.

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QFT. I've seen so much drama regarding this. "You went with team B? You could have screwed us!" "I didn't think team A was running this week and I just wanted to help." "But if we decided to go, then we would have been screwed!"

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Originally Posted by skaterger

Playing alt characters are important for many mmo players. Some of us get bored with our main classes after a while and we would like to challenge high level content playing a different role.

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True that. A run as a healer is much different than as tank for example and I would like to experience it from different viewpoints.

The point of lockouts is to prevent a player from max gearing in a week. If SE could allow us to run with another class after one class is locked nothing would change. Gearing up my warrior would still take the same amount of time but at least I can play as another class now. I hate the idea of marrying a class till death do us part, especially in this game which in the start fooled you with all the classes you could get. Who would have known this would end up being worse than other MMOs on endgame.

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Originally Posted by Edli

True that. A run as a healer is much different than as tank for example and I would like to experience it from different viewpoints.

The point of lockouts is to prevent a player from max gearing in a week. If SE could allow us to run with another class after one class is locked nothing would change. Gearing up my warrior would still take the same amount of time but at least I can play as another class now. I hate the idea of marrying a class till death do us part, especially in this game which in the start fooled you with all the classes you could get. Who would have known this would end up being worse than other MMOs on endgame.

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There are still benefits to the armoury system even looking beyond the worst offending flaws. Being able to repair all your gear using crafts, being able to earn myth/soldiery on whatever class you choose, shared gear sets, getting bonus rewards for the same character even if you have to play a job that isn't your main.


I would be satisfied if they allowed a soldiery cap per role.

However, they would have to re-work some things. Like the soldiery weapon token would need to be job based since it's universal, and the gear/accessories purchasing would have to be reworked since you could just buy all the things using 4 jobs worth of soldiery etc. for your main job.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

There are still benefits to the armoury system even looking beyond the worst offending flaws.

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I agree and I loved it. Instead of logging out and in I can just switch in the fly to change a class.

All I'm saying is they should lock the class not the character. You cannot implement the exact same system other MMOs have because you don't have the same exact way in how you handle classes. When WoW locks your x character they basically lock your healer. You can still run it with the other character as a tank. That is how it works on a one class per character MMO. In here however one character has multiple classes. Locking a character here is like locking the entire account on WoW. That's way too harsh.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

No. Because then

1. people will run it over and. Over and full gear within a week, then complain
They have nothing to do, no content. Bla bla bla.

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If that is that case then this means that there isn't enough content to justify the subscription fee. This looks more bad on the devs than the players.

My Game experiment is totally screw up with this lockout crap right now. Some friends join in and I cannot go with them, cannot abandon my current static either. So sometime I decided not to go at all, since it only upset one or the other.

This lockout is the biggest insult to players. We get punish for playing with friends, and many FC become useless because of lockout. Please SE, just do something about it like make it Rared drop or do like CT lockout. I know Coil is optional, but to get the best gears in the game you have to do coil right now.

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Originally Posted by OmegaFlare

It would be so perfect if they changed the coil lockout to loot lockout like in CT, only one loot per person per turn each week. Then there would be no segregation within an fc. There will be no coil group 1 or coil group 2 but everyone could play with anyone at anytime. With the way coil lockouts are right now, if you've beaten turn 9 and are on farm each week, you just log in on Tuesday and spend like 1-2 hours to do t6-t9 and then you're done for week. You can't do those turns again even if you wanted to.

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Our bard literally just got 5 pieces of loot last night, and we were very happy that he was able to gear up from i lvl 99 to 105 in a night. one item per person is probably the the worst idea I have seen, in between coil 6~9 you have 13 items drop throughout. You going to just throw 5 on the ground each week?

I support the idea of removing locks on coil 2. And by the way, for those who thinks 2nd coil runs will begin to sell, I personnaly think this is absolutly impossible to carry 1 person in any of the 4 fights, at least not now with the current gear and the current mechanics and enrage timers.

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

I support the idea of removing locks on coil 2. And by the way, for those who thinks 2nd coil runs will begin to sell, I personnaly think this is absolutly impossible to carry 1 person in any of the 4 fights, at least not now with the current gear and the current mechanics and enrage timers.

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SCOB runs are already being sold, even T9.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

SCOB runs are already being sold, even T9.

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What this guy said.

I wish they'd remove weekly coil lockouts. Some of my friends and I haven't even seen or gotten anything over the month and a half. We tend to only see caster and tank stuff drop for the longest while now lol -_-

Even if they don't remove the lockout completely, they could at least implement a one loot per Turn for your character each week. This would also help remove the barrier that some players currently have within SCOB to at least familiarize themselves within it outside YouTube. I feel bad for the players who cannot even get some practice in because of conflicting real world priorities and commitments. They end up being shunned by the parties that do not want inexperienced players lol.

These Coil lockouts also prevent being able to play with all your friends. It's either your part of a static or a decent pug group to clear it. If anything, these Coil lockouts create more community divide if anything. The major logic behind Coil lockouts, however, is to clearly continue retaining end-game player interest. In doing so, SE manages to keep revenue each month because players will always want to sub in order to see if they'll get a drop from Coil each week.

However, it probably won't matter much once Echo buff is introduced to SCOB in 2.4 or 2.5. ANYONE CAN CLEAR COIL WITH CHEAP GAMESHARK-LIKE BUFF!!! LOL.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

SCOB runs are already being sold, even T9.

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Alright then, not on my server at least but i trust you. And the one buying the run must be capable of doing something, not dying at the start and hope they pass it no?

I have to completely agree with OP. Whatever solution is implemented, the lockout-once-win system has to go. I'm actually in the situation of *having* no static, and finding it very difficult to *join* one because of my schedule and my job. (DPS aren't exactly in high demand.) Worse, it is completely fragmenting the community of my social Free Company. There is one group of FC members who made their own static, and a lot of people envious and jealous of their progress, or wishing they could come but unable because of the lockout mechanics. People have already left the FC because we can't create a static for them, or because they find other statics that demand they join their FC. And so forth.

SE, a lot of people, myself included, have just decided to wait on this content entirely until you do like you did with Coil 1 and remove the lockouts. And though I will keep playing in the interim, plenty of people will just cancel their sub until they see it in the patch notes. I understand the desire and need to keep gear distribution at a reasonable pace, but you have to come up with some solution that doesn't fragment our communities so badly.

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

Alright then, not on my server at least but i trust you. And the one buying the run must be capable of doing something, not dying at the start and hope they pass it no?

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Yup you can check them here

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...k-Coil-Carries
http://solitude.guildwork.com/forum/...ll-runs-thread

Anyway I'm pretty certain that they get the player buying the run to die at the start. Can't have people randomly getting stoned in t7 now eh?

But I have to agree with you, the number of grps selling these runs are very little at the moment but as more grps get geared this will become more common.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

Yup you can check them here

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...k-Coil-Carries
http://solitude.guildwork.com/forum/...ll-runs-thread

Anyway I'm pretty certain that they get the player buying the run to die at the start. Can't have people randomly getting stoned in t7 now eh?

But I have to agree with you, the number of grps selling these runs are very little at the moment but as more grps get geared this will become more common.

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Gearing isn't the only thing to be able to sell these runs thou, having a strategy to be able to constantly and reliably 7 man all 4 turns is a bigger factor :)

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

Alright then, not on my server at least but i trust you. And the one buying the run must be capable of doing something, not dying at the start and hope they pass it no?

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Generally they are buying the loot, not the clear. Money is paid up front and they are expected to stand in front of the boss and die immediately so as not to cause complications.

If they removed coil lockouts, an entire raid would be able to get 8 i115 weapons in two days :p.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

If they removed coil lockouts, an entire raid would be able to get 8 i115 weapons in two days :p.

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Then let them.

Playing with your friends>some people getting geared in 2 days.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

If they removed coil lockouts, an entire raid would be able to get 8 i115 weapons in two days :p.

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They could implement a personal loot system, lock that down to once per boss per every reset, and then remove the instance locks altogether. That would solve your problems with people getting "Geared too fast (who cares?)" and let people run content multiple times if they want to help friends later on. This is what is being phased into other games and it's working great. This is one of those places where SE doesn't really need to reinvent the wheel. These growing pains have already been experienced and solved.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

If they removed coil lockouts, an entire raid would be able to get 8 i115 weapons in two days :p.

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When you make a lockout, that you can only loot at your first kill of the week, than this will not happen and what you are able to loot has the same RNG, like now.

This way would also eleminate following abusing: Players group up for T6 but one is already in T7, 8 or 9 and is locking all the others out from playing and looting T6 the week.

I don't know if it was already proposed but maybe something a lockout on rolling any loot once you defeated a turn would be a good trade off.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

When you make a lockout, that you can only loot at your first kill of the week, than this will not happen and what you are able to loot has the same RNG, like now.

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Let's say theoretically:

8 players have 2 characters each that are mirrors of each other.
7 of them play their "dummy characters" and funnel all the gear to the 8th slot person, then the 8th slot switches with someone who was playing a dummy and funnel the gear again to the next person.

Current case: 1 stone, 1-2 oils, 1-2 sands plus loot each week shared for 8 people.
"Loot lockout" on clear + unlimited re-entry: Switching to secondary characters allows 8 people to get each of their mirrored characters 1 stone and 1-2 oils, 1-2 sands plus all loot per week.

They would have to change the distribution somewhat.

Sure, not everyone could do this, but it's still a possibility to account for.

You know, in other games there is enough content to raid something different every night. Raids are large, so gearing still takes a while.

This is an issue here because there is so little content to run and raid groups are so tiny.

We have big Free Company, Big linkshell and the party for the best raid are locked at 8 people.

Please SE remove this lockout, just put a flag on the clear where a player can loot only the first time he close it up.

This lockout divide the community and doesn't allow the member of an FC to help each other filling the space when a static have trouble to start.

The bigger part of the community are asking for that, why ignore us?

I would also point out the EQ 2 had a mix of small group content and large group content. There were small group quest lines with epic rewards, heritage quests, and even mini-"raids" like Nizara.... but also large group raids that made use of those large guilds.

You could even have large and small versions of raids, so that you could do both.

There isn't a whole lot of reason for such restrictive game play in this day and age.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Current case: 1 stone, 1-2 oils, 1-2 sands plus loot each week shared for 8 people.
"Loot lockout" on clear + unlimited re-entry: Switching to secondary characters allows 8 people to get each of their mirrored characters 1 stone and 1-2 oils, 1-2 sands plus all loot per week.

They would have to change the distribution somewhat.

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Actually I still don't understand for what we do need wheatered gear or weapons. I also don't understand for what Gerold need that stone to do his masterwork or why his masterwork is weathered too. From my own experience, coil2 is less a gearcheck than coil1 and more a skillcheck. So outgearing would not help that much like it have done it in the turns before.

Why not make it like with myth gear? Make the gear full powered from begin, remove the stones and the oil. The suggested idea with loot lockout after first kill of the week would work fine.

The issue for me and many others is, it is to difficult to find enough people, that are able to do coil2, when you cannot play at the primetime. I've tried it since february. At beginning it looked not bad, that it could work. But after 5 weeks the group got destroyed more and more because of changing worktimes of the people, familiar issues, people quitting the game, people that not wantet it static this way. So it was not possible anymore for me to shedule static raids. I tried to fill the gaps again and again, but when it was raid time, we were mostly 6 or 7 of the 8 ppl that should be there.

If there would be no lockout like we do currently have, we could use ppl of our other groups, that have finished their own raid that day and which would help out if they would not be locked out. But thats impossible with the actual system and so I've played that content not much. My current kill progress is 1xT6 and 1xT7. Not with my own group. As replacement in another group on days I could start playing earlier. With my own group, that I gave up two weeks ago, we did try T6 exactly 3 evenings since 2.2. These were the only days, where 8 ppl of the group got together at the times scheduled in our raid calender.

The actual lockout system does lock me out. But not after the kill. It do it already before I can try it.

There are bright sides of loot lockout. Say your first weekly run is ok and if you get a lockout all your subsequent runs you will be locked out of the loot whil estill providing you with ability to run the content. It seems very nice for many players but you have to look at it closely.

If it was possible there are so many downsides for the game:
1. Waaaay many people would have access to BiS loot. Be it weaker FC members pulled through content or rich buyers.
2. This would negate reasoning to run all other content for people who are geared (it is already a valid point for people who cleared coil)
3. This so much decreases lifetime for content. In a month or 2 max most of the server will be top geared whining that they are bored
4. Now if you look at player's gear you can judge upon his skill level. With locks removed everyone and his grandma will be geared and we will see a sea of poorly skilled players geared equally with top ones effectively negating that feeling of accomplishment for those skilled ones. The whole point of gear progression is that end feeling of superiority earned by hard work.
5. We currently have an issue of gil sellers being in demand cause you can buy T3 crafted gear and different kinds of runs with loot. Imagine what will be if you could buy endgame runs. We by our own hands will destroy economy allowing such heavy emission of gil into it cause SE won't have rights to ban us for doing paid runs legalizing this emission.

All this being said I can definitely ensure you - endgame content will have weekly lockouts for visiting forever. You can stop this useless whine now.

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Originally Posted by Pacifyer

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Well said.

I think 95% of people on the server dont clear coil so its not like people dont have anybody to team up with they're just lazy and want it handed to them by finding people who have cleared it to carry them through, pretty sure most people would just stay and farm with their static anyways unless they want to sell runs. Once people get their loot they wont bother with it like CT unless someone will pay them for a carry.

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Originally Posted by Pacifyer

1. Waaaay many people would have access to BiS loot. Be it weaker FC members pulled through content or rich buyers.

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1. It must drop. They also have the same RNG like it is actaully the way.
2. Coil loot is not BiS at all. On my scholar, most pieces of daylight are BiS. Only one piece of clothes I can wear high allegan. And from accessoires, the ring must be taken as there is no other choise.

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2. This would negate reasoning to run all other content for people who are geared (it is already a valid point for people who cleared coil)

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What would be the difference to now? Really.

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3. This so much decreases lifetime for content. In a month or 2 max most of the server will be top geared whining that they are bored

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No, as the amount of loot they can get and the RNG is exactly the same.

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5. We currently have an issue of gil sellers being in demand cause you can buy T3 crafted gear and different kinds of runs with loot. Imagine what will be if you could buy endgame runs. We by our own hands will destroy economy allowing such heavy emission of gil into it cause SE won't have rights to ban us for doing paid runs legalizing this emission.

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Yoshida already has pointed, that he has no issue with selling runs. So what? And coil2 runs get already sold.

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Originally Posted by Pacifyer

You can stop this useless whine now.

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Buuuuhuuuuu. When more ppl are able to play the content, I'm not that exclusive anymore. Buuhuuuuuu.

That is whining.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

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A group gets 2 sands/oils per week and most jobs besides SCH only need about 2-3 so you will eventually get your upgrades.

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Originally Posted by NinjaTaru72

No. Because then

1. people will run it over and. Over and full gear within a week, then complain
They have nothing to do, no content. Bla bla bla.

2. Runs will get sold and yeah... That whole argument.

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I'd rather have nothing to do because I've completed the content than have nothing to do because I can't do the content.

If you're not in a static you have to tear your hair out with crap PUGs and that is no fun. I want to be able to raid with my FC but I can't because the two statics are full and plans for a third have been axed. I don't mind finding a new one but I've been advertising for a new static for over a week with no success. The hardest thing in this game isn't T9, it's finding a group to do it with.

If anything will make me cancel my subscription it's the way end-game is setup. I'd be gone already if it weren't for the fact I run one of the biggest FFXIV fan sites.

I fully support a loot lockout over a content lockout.

Edit: Also concerns about people selling runs are ridiculous. If top tier content is so poorly designed that 7 people can carry an 8th then the content is too easy and that's SE at fault not us. Primal carries work because they aren't top tier content, you shouldn't be able to carry anyone through T6-9. If you can that's a separate issue entirely.

I started playing after 2.1 dropped, I hope there was this much complaining when the first coil turns were released so I can rest easy knowing SE didn't give in to these same whines and kept things as is.

Literally 2-5% of a server clears SCOB, maybe even less so there isnt a shortage of people who are not locked out of coil to play with, I'm sure you can find a reliable group if you just get off your ass and stop expecting things to go your way so it can be easier for you to get what you want. Your FC can also make alts, which is common practice for some to help fill spots in a group that are lacking them. There is so many options for you to be able to do what you want to be done but you're too pampered to see them.

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Originally Posted by Brainberry

A group gets 2 sands/oils per week and most jobs besides SCH only need about 2-3 so you will eventually get your upgrades.

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This^^
In the case of loot lockout your group in theory would be able to get 8 per week instead of 2.
For example I do not get my WHM loot for 3 or even 4 weeks now due to no luck. With this being on loot lockout I would be geared to teeth already and imagine what happens if a group clears T9 and gets all their weapons in 1 week and then sells t9 runs and you start seeing rich morons around carrying those cause they bought it from them while never able to clear it themselves...

And have in mind that being able to find proper group is a part of overall difficulty defeating coil so removing this will not have any good impact when people are already screaming about the lack of difficulty.