Zoidac Weapon 2.28

Hard"
requiring a great deal of endurance or effort.
"stooping over all day was hard work"
synonyms: arduous, strenuous, tiring, fatiguing, exhausting, wearying, back-breaking, grueling, heavy, laborious;

adverb
adverb: hard; comparative adverb: harder; superlative adverb: hardest

1.
with a great deal of effort.
"they work hard at school"
synonyms: diligently, industriously, assiduously, conscientiously, sedulously, busily, enthusiastically, energetically, doggedly, steadily;

Do not mistake the trivial chores to be hard, but the overall process.

I think I just won the internet no?

Easier just to edit your post...

Also, we all know what hard means...you just seem to think time=difficulty.

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Originally Posted by DkFusion

Do not mistake the trivial chores to be hard, but the overall process.

I think I just won the internet no?

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No, far from it.

The process is not difficult? Then why doesn't everyone have animus? Because they don't want one? Why? If atma's dropped 50% of the time, speeding up the process, would there be complaints? If it cost 150 myth instead of 1500 myth, would there be complaints? No, because it is less time consuming, hard, and therefore easier to obtain.

Time does not equal difficulty.

Here is where we see differently - You assess difficulty simply on skill required.

I assess difficulty being modified either by skill required for a task, or effort or time required to complete a task, or possibly both.


Edit: I see you point and it is valid, we just have a difference of opinions and I apologize if I seemed stubborn.

Understood, we'll drop it here.

Difficultly can be measured in different ways:

1) Measured in time, and how fast you can get it done ( if at all) If you can't beat the time required ( blindly or not) the difficulty in time is hard
2) Measured in skill, and how well you and/or party can scale against a boss, if killed several times ( 25-50 times before 1st win) the difficulty in skill is hard.
3) Measured in both time and skill, and how well you and/or party can scale going against time and bosses/dungeons etc. If it takes too long/keep dying then difficulty in both skill and time is hard.
4) Measured in combined effort, If your team can't come together to beat something that you can't beat yourself ( or with less than 8 people) then the difficulty in combined effort is hard.

*All of these in time will become easier with each content you do.*

Atma may not be hard skill wise, but in time it can be someone's worse enemy. I'm all for time>skill but not with content that is boring ( like FATEs). If the content in question is of no interest, then that person won't even attempt to go through the torture to begin with.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Source required.

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Originally Posted by KoujiMoreno

Gonna need a source on that.

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my source, in the message about people leaving in DF after the two first boss:

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

I wanted to let you know that the team is currently looking into ways to counteract this behavior. If you encounter a player that is going AFK specifically in an attempt to be dismissed, please be sure to report this to the GMs.

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by the way, it was a given, dungeon are means to be done fully, not just the part that interest us. like with the exploit of AK at that time, people was zaping trash for simply kill boss. there, they simply ignore the last part of the dungeon.

ps: the thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...39#post2026139

For a master painter... Painting a very small house is easy, painting a mansion can be difficult, or hard. Painting 5 houses in one day even more difficult. The way the man paints hasn't changed between the houses... But the extremely long task place before him could be considered "hard".

A man licking envelopes for a living is a cake walk job, that doesn't take any skill. But after a 10 hour shift... He still has completed a "hard days work". Was what he did hard? Nope, but committing to it for a 10 hour shift 5 days a week, was pretty hard. LMAO

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

This is code for we know the current system is awful and we want to make sure Novus isn't as equally bad so that we don't get turbo ragequits.

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explain how its awful? its one of the most ingenious systems/ideas ive ever seen in an mmo. They not only gave a lenghty quest that required time and effort, but they did it in such a way it got people back into the world and into desolate dungeons thereby balancing out the population.

Yea awful idea.... /boggle. I miss middle school.

patch 2.28 - atmas available at merchants around eorzea for 25gil. Book cost reduced to 100myth. Happy?

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

my source, in the message about people leaving in DF after the two first boss:


by the way, it was a given, dungeon are means to be done fully, not just the part that interest us. like with the exploit of AK at that time, people was zaping trash for simply kill boss. there, they simply ignore the last part of the dungeon.

ps: the thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...39#post2026139

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

just a point, tomorrow, with the patch, the speedrun of Brayflox is gone. they have said it that they will work a way for avoid this. like they have done it with AK at that time, remember?.

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It says they're looking into it, not that they're patching it tomorrow.

do you really think they will leave this uncheck for long? you can dream.

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Originally Posted by Luciano_Bozzelli

For a master painter... Painting a very small house is easy, painting a mansion can be difficult, or hard. Painting 5 houses in one day even more difficult. The way the man paints hasn't changed between the houses... But the extremely long task place before him could be considered "hard".

A man licking envelopes for a living is a cake walk job, that doesn't take any skill. But after a 10 hour shift... He still has completed a "hard days work". Was what he did hard? Nope, but committing to it for a 10 hour shift 5 days a week, was pretty hard. LMAO

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you do recall that we are playing at a game... not pointing to a work... just saying!

They want people to redo the quest for other jobs too, i doubt someone who got his 12 atmas in more than 100 hours will happily do it again for another weapon.

the people who say its ok might not have been in a bad luck streak regarding atma drop.

Its normal to have difference between people but not that much. Its not like you're praying the gods to favor RNG once for a one time drop like for rare items in FFXI. you're praying 12 times for EACH weapon you want to upgrade...

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

Devs: "we anticipate not many will have finished the first step by the time we implement the last step"

Forums: "AHHRGHNHEHFHHWFBHFANAAFJSJGHSJFHJFJFFLKLKLKG"

Devs: "uhhh......sorry for the delay but we are making it easier......"

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lmao, nice one

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Originally Posted by Saerk

Yes, and tell me how good determination is for DRGs compared to crit. It's about half as effective. I've done the theorycrafting. So have others. Its a hundred percent bullshit. Higher ilvl=/=better. Animus>Liberator for dragoons.

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orly my det drg dps output is higher than our monk in static runs? besides animus gae bolg is giving too much acc

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explain how its awful? its one of the most ingenious systems/ideas ive ever seen in an mmo. They not only gave a lenghty quest that required time and effort, but they did it in such a way it got people back into the world and into desolate dungeons thereby balancing out the population.

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Are you seriously white knighting FATE grinding with a < 3% drop rate? If only the content we were being pushed into wasn't as boring as all hell, and pretty much played to death by anyone with a lvl 50 job. Then it might not be so awful. Combine that with ultra low drop rates for Atma, and there's nothing to call it but awful.

This is why people haven't done their weapons. It's tedious, tired content, and you're not guaranteed results. I only finished my Atma stage on Tuesday, and that's with pretty casually doing FATE's since the patch (i.e. combined with dailes and when I'm waiting on PF etc.). My situation is probably quite common, and is indicative of more realistic timing for Atma/Animus progress. Sucks if you ground it out frothing at the mouth within a few days of release and now you want to keep working on it, but that's not the case for majority of people.

Also, this notion that people want things handed to them on a Silver Platter has got to stop, most people really don't want that, and you're just being noxious by repeating that kind of thing. People want a system that's fair and rewarding, it's quite simple. Not one where acquiring an Atma can take anywhere between 1 and 1000 minutes depending on your luck.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

If only the content we were being pushed into wasn't as boring as all hell,

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How is them offering you 3 different ways to get end game weapons pushing you into any of them? Most people just didn't take the time to read the statements from Yoshi about how this one would not be locked by Coil/Primal type content, but instead take lots of time and quets involving low drop rates. This quest was accessible the minute the patch came up, Leviathan Extreme and Coil take work to get into, so people chose this one, because they thought it would be the easiest and fastest, then there was the huge influx of not just whining but also calling it broken because it was exactly what Yoshi said it would be, and now we have delayed content once again.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

just a point, tomorrow, with the patch, the speedrun of Brayflox is gone. they have said it that they will work a way for avoid this. like they have done it with AK at that time, remember?.

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Speedruns in DF, yes. Speedrun in premade, not likely.

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Originally Posted by Otoha

So what you're saying is, because you mess around with an MMO a few hours a week. It's ok for them to postpone it for players like you?

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No, he's saying that it already takes him forever. He doesn't care that everything is postponed because he's already mad that it's a system that is very anti-casual and he's going to just keep falling further behind no matter if the quests are added now or next month.

As another very casual player, I can sorta understand his frustration. For me, though, I don't really care because the more content they add before I get to the endgame, the more I have to do when I get there.

EDIT: Also, Reddit has an interesting theory regarding the Zodiac weapons, Atmas, and time. Some people have been getting their Atmas very quickly by experimenting with this.

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How is them offering you 3 different ways to get end game weapons pushing you into any of them?

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If you want an Animus weapon, you're pushed into the Animus content. It's simple. Certainly seems like a lot of people chose not to do it though, and you're calling them whiners? Bahaha. "Smart people" is a more apt term for them.

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This quest was accessible the minute the patch came up, Leviathan Extreme and Coil take work to get into, so people chose this one, because they thought it would be the easiest and fastest, then there was the huge influx of not just whining but also calling it broken because it was exactly what Yoshi said it would be, and now we have delayed content once again.

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Yeah, yet they made the most accessible quest the most ridiculously grindy. I've cleared Titan EX, Ifrit EX, T5, and have farmed a Wave Axe after the patch in less time than it took me to get my Atma weapon. The time investment simply isn't worth it. This is why people aren't farming the weapons, it's not because the community is weak willed or any of that garbage. They just don't want to subject themselves to it.

Again. Blaming the playerbase is just being noxious and short sighted. Any delay here is due to SE not reading their playerbase well enough, and simply not making the Atma/Animus enticing enough for players.

But by all means continue on with the "whiners have ruined my Animus plans!!11!1!!" sentiment. It's very becoming.

Compared to 11 where relics used to take you years (yes, literally), this is not so bad. :P

I don't get the "give me now" mentality. I understand the tedious time sink, but come on, it wasn't meant to take you a few hours/2 days to acquire. Even I don't get too much time to play as I used to and I think the RNG, while frustrating, is fine as it is.

I think players have gotten very spoiled (no offense intended) requesting things they want their way, and the devs catering to them. There needs to be some middle ground.

In my humble opinion, it's not like things have changed and now people have less time in their hands. People used to have less time back then as well. I never understood this argument. The only things that have changed have been the MMOs designs marking a different era where getting things fast has become the norm because people want things fast, not because they have less time than back then. I mean, yeah if you were a teenager back then you obviously have less time now, XD but what I mean is, because of it, some people "demanded" developers to make less time sinks and since MMOs starting becoming popular, it reached to a wider population. The more people it reached, the more vocal? I guess. Then Devs listened and did what players wanted, which is not always a good thing, because, this is what happens. They got them used to getting things fast and now they can't go back.

I would like to see the numbers for the ENTIRE game:
How many players have animus?
How many players have ATMA?
I bet it is not very many at all.

woot i have 8 atma! i'm almost there. just 100 more atma to go to finish all my jobs! fun stuff

think im at 8 crab, 8 archer, 1 ram, 2 waterbearer and already got my atma paladin weapon and animus shield. just farming atma 4-5hrs every 3 or 4 days seeing as need to get more seals to pay for ventures which im doing the atma farming on warrior.
so finished 2 zones for atma at moment which was north shroud and western la noscea. working on upper la noscea whenever i need seals to pay for ventures

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

do you really think they will leave this uncheck for long? you can dream.



you do recall that we are playing at a game... not pointing to a work... just saying!

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Your missing the whole point... I'm addressing the fact that people are saying just because you have to grind low level fates, its easy. Just because your not fighting a lv 100 boss, its easy. Nothing is easy about camping those fates all day. And nothing is easy about grinding 1500 Myths a book. That's all I'm saying...

I'm talking about the stupid person who likes to jump in when someone says grinding fates, or completing the Animus is hard just to say, "No its not its easy because your doing low level fates." And the idiots always bringing up the time=difficulty argument. When it's not about that at all. When the "hard" we mean is that its not easily obtainable, nor can you wave gil at high level players to do it for you. Hence the grind factor.

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Originally Posted by Luciano_Bozzelli

Your missing the whole point... I'm addressing the fact that people are saying just because you have to grind low level fates, its easy. Just because your not fighting a lv 100 boss, its easy. Nothing is easy about camping those fates all day. And nothing is easy about grinding 1500 Myths a book. That's all I'm saying...

I'm talking about the stupid person who likes to jump in when someone says grinding fates, or completing the Animus is hard just to say, "No its not its easy because your doing low level fates."

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ok, my bad, we are saying the same then hehe
the most fun part about all this... is gerolt and levi weapon are faster to get... a loooot and ask only to have a group dedicated to that content. outside this... well they are extremely easy at get.
3 weak of soldiery cap and an item get in T7, if your group farm T7, it's 1-2 hours for do it (after i admit your group must leave you the item, but that another subject). levi fight is not that long too and can be farmed (indeed the drop rate of the mirror are weak) and if you do it with a static you will get it more faster than getting your atma.

and here the sad joke, the guys that have acces to levi and t7, can fairly do both in the week and still work on animus while out of the raid... for make simple they have acces to all content. that not the case of all the people doing atma/animus. for multiple reason, this people are forced into this tiedious grind for what? give content for big player? seriously? if that was all the quest... why not... but we have novus and surely for the 2.3 another step coming... is part of a bigger chain... why make this part soo nobrain and extremely long? i don't see the point.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

ok, my bad, we are saying the same then hehe

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Yeah who knows what those guys were thinking when they made the quest. But it was made, it was handed to me on a plate, so I ate it, and got my Animus. Have had it for a week and a half now. And it makes me a bit stronger for my raid group. I was apart of a group that constantly died on T5, and some of them never got past it, so when 2.2 dropped I was on turn 6 with no raid group, and I wasn't the type to abandon them trying to help them get past 5. So in the meanwhile I got my Animus because I knew it would always be upgradable. But they eventually broke up the raid group, and I've been picked up by a new raid group that is on T6. And I didn't really feel like skipping through the storyline real fast to get to Leviathan ex to do it over and over for a weapon so I chose the atma route. I knew that even if I did go get a Leviathan weapon (Although i'm on it now, the storyline was ok, but a bit shorter than expected) I would eventually still need to complete my relic. Because when turn 10 gets introduced, I'm sure you'll be able to upgrade that relic.

I'm a black mage, and if you ask me that's a lot of soldiery (1200 sol's and chest drop from T7) for 40 accuracy along with 28 spell speed for my weathered weapon. I don't have accuracy problems, and I have a lot of jewelry with accuracy on it at the moment along with the fact that my Animus has 40 spell speed on it. So I was looking forward to the next part of the Zodiac quest so I can look even sexier because where I'm from (FFXI) the word "relic" meant something. LOL

The sad thing that we fail to realize is playing an MMORPG is nothing but a tedious grind. We log on everyday to get stronger, and while you sleep or are at work some people are getting stronger. The whole concept of the game is a grind. My cousin once did 70 Crystal towers without seeing his scholar gloves drop. Stuff like this happens. We play the games to get things, but we also play the game for the company of our friends and to see them get things as well while experiencing epic battles with our friends. It's not always about "us". What we get in the game is just a bonus to our contributions, dedication, time, and achievements.

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Originally Posted by Whiteprincess

woot i have 8 atma! i'm almost there. just 100 more atma to go to finish all my jobs! fun stuff

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This is why it has to be a grind. And a long one. If you got every unidentified tomestone it would take you a minimum of 9 weeks straight of beating turn 7 and an incredible 26 weeks of soldiery...half a year to get all 9 weathered weapons. Weathered weapons are parallel to animus. If they made it any quicker and less time consuming to do you trivialize raid content yet AGAIN. And we're right back to everyone running around with all 9 relics 1 1/2 months after content release.

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Originally Posted by DkFusion

Time consuming and Hard are the same thing. People have constantly as of late been trying to seperate the two. Regardless if it takes 60 hours to down Turn 9 for loot or farm myth for 60 hours for Animus, they both require 60 hards and are more difficult then something that takes 30 minutes minute to complete. The grind is already inherently more easy as it doesn't require to rely on the competency of 7 other players, just your persistence in completing it.

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Time consuming and hard are NOT the same thing at all.

Something can take a chunk of time and be challenging and something can take a chunk of time and be faceroll. eg zerging low level fates compared to running coil 2. Yet in your logic, Coil 2 is easier....

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Time consuming and hard are NOT the same thing at all.

Something can take a chunk of time and be challenging and something can take a chunk of time and be faceroll. eg zerging low level fates compared to running coil 2. Yet in your logic, Coil 2 is easier....

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Well think about it for a second. Is it "easy" for YOU to grind fates for hours on end? You have to stop thinking about skill only, because i'm betting you have to distract yourself or take breaks or something to get past the tedium of it.

Well... whether you consider a faceroll time sink hard or not- when some players are lucky with RNG and some are not- then you are admitting the quest is "easier" for some people than others.

In fact, the players complaining are only asking for the quest to be the same "difficulty" for them as it is for the ones that the RNG gods favored.

Meanwhile, you have people that the quest was super "easy" for telling other players that they should be forced to spend more time (and thus have a "harder" quest) than they might have had... just because they are desperate to keep other players from getting the weapon (which is not even a stat upgrade btw)... to preserve their special snowflake mentality.

Look at it this way- no one is asking for something to be easier or harder- just standardized!

To Below- Reduce the variance in drops, or use a system that isn't so reliant on RNG. You could also introduce upper and lower limits to control the variance.

How can we 'standardize' randomness?

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Originally Posted by DkFusion

This is why it has to be a grind. And a long one. If you got every unidentified tomestone it would take you a minimum of 9 weeks straight of beating turn 7 and an incredible 26 weeks of soldiery...half a year to get all 9 weathered weapons. Weathered weapons are parallel to animus. If they made it any quicker and less time consuming to do you trivialize raid content yet AGAIN. And we're right back to everyone running around with all 9 relics 1 1/2 months after content release.

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Your point about that this has to be a long grind in relation to the raid content is totally negated by the fact that Levi Ex drops ilvl 95 weapons. Someone could basically get comparable raid weapons for all of their jobs in 1 day if they got some lucky dice rolls.

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Originally Posted by KingofAbyss

How can we 'standardize' randomness?

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Increasing the drop percentage could be sufficient if they want to say with the completely RNG system. They could also revamp the system for one that would still be effective years down the road. One, two, three expansions down the road will you still have the same amount of people doing the fates? In one of the various threads about this someone suggested changing the system so that players need to do something like 50 fates to get their atma. This method still requires a grind. It gives players a visual progression they can see. It is also a system that would stand the test of time.

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

How can we 'standardize' randomness?

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Guaranteed drop at a specific interval, while keeping the low drop rate so that if you do get lucky, it takes a bit less time to move on. You're guaranteed progress after a certain point, but have the chance of being able to progress more quickly if you happen to get lucky.

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Originally Posted by MrLeonheart

Guaranteed drop at a specific interval, while keeping the low drop rate so that if you do get lucky, it takes a bit less time to move on. You're guaranteed progress after a certain point, but have the chance of being able to progress more quickly if you happen to get lucky.

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Yeah something like this:

"If X players passes 55 FATEs without an Atma Drop, Then give X Atma"
"If X player gets Atma Before 55 FATEs, then drop X Atma, then at 55 FATEs drop Another X Atma"

I wouldn't mind something like this :).

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

On the other hand, before 2.2 people were complaining there was nothing to do. I'd rather have too much to do than not enough but I guess that's just me...

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if it's not fun at all, it's still nothing to do (referring to Atmas).

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

if it's not fun at all, it's still nothing to do (referring to Atmas).

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Fun is subjective ( even though I don't like FATES), I know some people do find it fun.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Well think about it for a second. Is it "easy" for YOU to grind fates for hours on end? You have to stop thinking about skill only, because i'm betting you have to distract yourself or take breaks or something to get past the tedium of it.

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Doing something easy once, is not hard, it's easy. Doing the same thing 100 times doesnt suddenly make it harder, more difficult and in no way challenging. 683 FATEs (I kept count out of interest) it took to get my 12 ATMA. It's patience not difficulty that gets you the ATMA weapon.