Battle Reform: Auto-Attack (06/30/2011)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

its supposedly not going to be like a action rpg any more, but how does having to manually use skills make it less action rpgish? if anything it makes it more action rpgish

---

I'm not talking about manually using abilities, I'm talking about Auto Attack.

Every class has to manually use their WS. That's a given. That's not what I'm complaining about. You've missed the point.

The point is that Auto Attack is Auto Attack. ARC won't have a ranged Auto Attack, which defeats the purpose of being a ranged DPS class by being forced into melee to use our Auto Attack. This isn't a problem with solo, it's a problem with endgame HNM's and dungeons.

Point is:

Stand back and shoot, your damage won't change -- get up close and personal, you're going to punch for auto-attack. I've played every variation of ranged damage in MMOs and offline RPGs, it all boils down to shooting. How about this:

Give my Conjurer daggers as well because my SCH in FFXI had skill with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capita

ARC won't have a ranged Auto Attack, which defeats the purpose of being a ranged DPS class by being forced into melee to use our Auto Attack.

---

You're not being forced into melee.

You can't implement ranged AA on archer without screwing up multishot, which is one of archer's main sources of DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

You're not being forced into melee.

You can't implement ranged AA on archer without screwing up multishot, which is one of archer's main sources of DPS.

---

Yes you are being forced into it. I mean how isn't it forcing you to AA? Do you not see that .45 pointed at his head?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jennestia

Yes you are being forced into it. I mean how isn't it forcing you to AA? Do you not see that .45 pointed at his head?

---

No, you're not.

Archers get an accuracy bonus when the attack from range. Their DPS is the greatest when attacking from range and with careful use of buffed multishot, trifurcate, bloodletter, and barrage.

If you get in close, you run the risk of getting smashed by monster AOE TP moves. When you are dead, your DPS is a big, fat zero.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jennestia

Point is:

Stand back and shoot, your damage won't change -- get up close and personal, you're going to punch for auto-attack. I've played every variation of ranged damage in MMOs and offline RPGs, it all boils down to shooting. How about this:

Give my Conjurer daggers as well because my SCH in FFXI had skill with them.

---

If you knew anything about min-maxing for endgame and were in any sort of competitive guild in any of those games you mentioned, you'd know that AA is a very important part of endgame DPS.

Actually, AA makes up a considerable amount of endgame DPS. Up to 60% of Hunter DPS (even higher for MM than SV) in WoW was AA, which is why we developed "stutter stepping". It was moving in bursts with the AA timer so we could still AA even while moving out of an AOE, for max possible DPS. It's what separated the good Hunters from the great ones, and is reflected in DPS parses. If AA is anything like other games (and you'd actually have to try really hard to make AA different), that's a considerable amount of DPS lost if you're limited to just abilities unless they super buff our abilities to hit like jet-powered trucks.

I wander if anyone of those complaining about the Archer's AA have actually played that class... because imho it's the only class that doesn't need an AA at all, his gameplay is working fine even with the current battle system and his combat style would be totally ruined if they added a ranged AA.

And the excuse "if everyone else has it i want it too" doesn't work, the other classes have to repeat normal attacks multiple times in order to build TP, Archers don't, they're not spammy at all, so if you feel the need of a ranged AA learn how to play that class...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xenor

I'm not getting auto attack, ARC is my main class and attacking with bare fists is hardly going to be the norm. You'll do it as often as you attack with rocks right now. All they're doing is adding a recast timer to Light Shot to compensate for the lack of stamina cost.



If you want to be the only person playing then may I suggest you play Final Fantasy XIII instead or one of the other great single player titles? Because you appear to be the only person who has never whined about anything in this game.

Oh and you can't have criticism without whining. It's like having cookies without biscuits. It's the same damn thing.

---

Well... just think about it.

You're near the monster, you b*tchslap it.
You're far from the monster, you... ?

Yeah, I know having Flying Fists of Mazinga Z could be great, but even if this game is called Final "Fantasy" that's a bit too much.

"Chicks dig giant robots" anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renshi

Well... just think about it.

You're near the monster, you b*tchslap it.
You're far from the monster, you... ?

---

... Kill it with a moogle?! :DD

I get it. Some people want to play a ranger class on WoW but with FFXIV graphics. I think that sums it up.

Sounds like haste is in the works

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capita

If you knew anything about min-maxing for endgame and were in any sort of competitive guild in any of those games you mentioned, you'd know that AA is a very important part of endgame DPS.

Actually, AA makes up a considerable amount of endgame DPS. Up to 60% of Hunter DPS (even higher for MM than SV) in WoW was AA, which is why we developed "stutter stepping". It was moving in bursts with the AA timer so we could still AA even while moving out of an AOE, for max possible DPS. It's what separated the good Hunters from the great ones, and is reflected in DPS parses. If AA is anything like other games (and you'd actually have to try really hard to make AA different), that's a considerable amount of DPS lost if you're limited to just abilities unless they super buff our abilities to hit like jet-powered trucks.

---

Another fundamental flaw in argument spotted. Your entire argument seems to suggest that Archer's DPS will be better if it utilizes the close range AA fists, thus putting itself at risk by getting up close and personal, all being besides the point that an archer at close range is lulz.

The fundamental flaw here is - you are assuming that the AA this game will have will be anything like the dozens of other MMOs you have played. Your argument is based on the assumption that getting close for an archer will be desirable from a dps point of view, whereas I assure you it will not. No amount of AA will ever make up for the DPS Archer can do at range with it's accuracy buff, which in turn effects everything, as well as multishot.

No amount of experience in any other MMO can speak for your experience as an Archer in this one. Having played so many MMOs I would expect you to understand that better than most people. This is a different game. It functions differently. All your extensive MMO experience does for you is allow you to pick up new ones much more readily, but that will never mean you will know how to play a r50 Archer until you actually get there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rubicon

I get it. Some people want to play a ranger class on WoW but with FFXIV graphics. I think that sums it up.

---

Sadly thats probably the case :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capita

I'm not talking about manually using abilities, I'm talking about Auto Attack.

Every class has to manually use their WS. That's a given. That's not what I'm complaining about. You've missed the point.

The point is that Auto Attack is Auto Attack. ARC won't have a ranged Auto Attack, which defeats the purpose of being a ranged DPS class by being forced into melee to use our Auto Attack. This isn't a problem with solo, it's a problem with endgame HNM's and dungeons.

---

the point is AA does nothing to help damage for any class, and even less to help damage for an ARC. As you level on archer you realize an Archer is about picking his shots, and his time. AA does not help this. The only thing AA does in this game is make you have one less thing to do. For some classes that will be more than others.

like i told you on pug this AA will be near useless, unless they drastically alter flurry and light strike (which they may)
they have basically increased archers utility with this update. they can get in close for extra consistent free damage, or they can go at range and pick their shots, which will cost money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capita

If you knew anything about min-maxing for endgame and were in any sort of competitive guild in any of those games you mentioned, you'd know that AA is a very important part of endgame DPS.

Actually, AA makes up a considerable amount of endgame DPS. Up to 60% of Hunter DPS (even higher for MM than SV) in WoW was AA, which is why we developed "stutter stepping". It was moving in bursts with the AA timer so we could still AA even while moving out of an AOE, for max possible DPS. It's what separated the good Hunters from the great ones, and is reflected in DPS parses. If AA is anything like other games (and you'd actually have to try really hard to make AA different), that's a considerable amount of DPS lost if you're limited to just abilities unless they super buff our abilities to hit like jet-powered trucks.

---

ok you dont understand this games basic attacks. it doesnt mean archer has no basic attacks, it means it will not automatically press it for them. other than that, it is virtually the same. You will manually press your basic attacks in this game. you also cannot move while shooting in this game. so having AA will not be great for that case.

Its not aion, its not WoW it has different strengths, weaknesses and playstyle choices. you may not even like this incarnation of Archer, but i can tell you right now, it is the highest DPS class. so your idea of being gimped doesnt make sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Another fundamental flaw in argument spotted. Your entire argument seems to suggest that Archer's DPS will be better if it utilizes the close range AA fists, thus putting itself at risk by getting up close and personal, all being besides the point that an archer at close range is lulz.

The fundamental flaw here is - you are assuming that the AA this game will have will be anything like the dozens of other MMOs you have played. Your argument is based on the assumption that getting close for an archer will be desirable from a dps point of view, whereas I assure you it will not. No amount of AA will ever make up for the DPS Archer can do at range with it's accuracy buff, which in turn effects everything, as well as multishot.

No amount of experience in any other MMO can speak for your experience as an Archer in this one. Having played so many MMOs I would expect you to understand that better than most people. This is a different game. It functions differently. All your extensive MMO experience does for you is allow you to pick up new ones much more readily, but that will never mean you will know how to play a r50 Archer until you actually get there.

---

Obviously everything about AA is speculation due to the fact that it's not out yet. I'm merely voicing my opinion that forcing a melee AA on a RANGED class is redundant. It has nothing to do with how well I know my class. It's a genuine concern from a person who has played every kind of ranged class AS a ranged class.

And to the person saying I want to play WoW, no. The one thing WoW did right was balance the Hunter class around being able to shoot their main weapon's AA at a distance, and being forced to melee at close range. Using it as an excuse to bash WoW is juvenile. Give a game its credit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

ok you dont understand this games basic attacks. it doesnt mean archer has no basic attacks, it means it will not automatically press it for them. other than that, it is virtually the same. You will manually press your basic attacks in this game. you also cannot move while shooting in this game. so having AA will not be great for that case.

Its not aion, its not WoW it has different strengths, weaknesses and playstyle choices. you may not even like this incarnation of Archer, but i can tell you right now, it is the highest DPS class. so your idea of being gimped doesnt make sense.

---

Sometimes I wonder if some of you ever failed reading comprehension.

You're the one who doesn't understand what I'm saying. Every other class (aside from mages) will have their basic attacks automated (because, you know, Auto Attacks are basic attacks) while we still have to manually press ours. Simple enough for you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Another fundamental flaw in argument spotted. Your entire argument seems to suggest that Archer's DPS will be better if it utilizes the close range AA fists, thus putting itself at risk by getting up close and personal, all being besides the point that an archer at close range is lulz.

The fundamental flaw here is - you are assuming that the AA this game will have will be anything like the dozens of other MMOs you have played. Your argument is based on the assumption that getting close for an archer will be desirable from a dps point of view, whereas I assure you it will not. No amount of AA will ever make up for the DPS Archer can do at range with it's accuracy buff, which in turn effects everything, as well as multishot.

No amount of experience in any other MMO can speak for your experience as an Archer in this one. Having played so many MMOs I would expect you to understand that better than most people. This is a different game. It functions differently. All your extensive MMO experience does for you is allow you to pick up new ones much more readily, but that will never mean you will know how to play a r50 Archer until you actually get there.

---

Another thing I may add...

Even if you could get great Damage by being upfront let me ask you something:

Archers in real life... do they go straight up to a deer and say Hello Deer how are you before trying too attack it at 2ft of range? Two things wrong with that:

1) The Deer even if you get to close to it about 75ft and if your not camouflaged they will noticed you and they will either A) Run away
B) If its a Buck.. be ready for some horns depending on how aggressive the Buck is.

Lets translate this to FFXIV terms:

Bad way:

Take an "aggro" mob for example.. if you were to just charge in there and " get close" The monster is going to attack you, and Archers aren't know to sustain damaged much. So in return can cause a quick death for you.

Good way:

Have Your team, mainly your tank to gather the hate from the aggroed mob so when you shoot arrows you wont get attacked. now if the Aggro mob has an AOE based attack its best if you stay at your distance.

and also.. What would be the use of a Bow and arrow if your going to be so close that you want to kiss the monster? lol

Bow and Arrow has always been, (in real life and in games) "DISTANCE" . that is all =)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

You're not being forced into melee.

You can't implement ranged AA on archer without screwing up multishot, which is one of archer's main sources of DPS.

---

Put multishot on a charge system like quick draw from FFXI. Problem solved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capita

Obviously everything about AA is speculation due to the fact that it's not out yet. I'm merely voicing my opinion that forcing a melee AA on a RANGED class is redundant. It has nothing to do with how well I know my class. It's a genuine concern from a person who has played every kind of ranged class AS a ranged class.

And to the person saying I want to play WoW, no. The one thing WoW did right was balance the Hunter class around being able to shoot their main weapon's AA at a distance, and being forced to melee at close range. Using it as an excuse to bash WoW is juvenile. Give a game its credit.


Sometimes I wonder if some of you ever failed reading comprehension.

You're the one who doesn't understand what I'm saying. Every other class (aside from mages) will have their basic attacks automated while we still have to manually press ours. Simple enough for you?

---

what exactly is it you consider AA? automated attacks? or do you mean basic attacks? I can see you arguing about having to actually press buttons yourself, but aside from that AA is not doing anything different in this game.

You may have to press more buttons on archer, thats all not having ranged AA means in this game. if you have a problem with it, its because you dont like pressing buttons, not because its going to some how gimp archers.

How can it gimp archers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corrderio

Put multishot on a charge system like quick draw from FFXI. Problem solved.

---

what do you mean by a charge system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capita

Sometimes I wonder if some of you ever failed reading comprehension.

You're the one who doesn't understand what I'm saying. Every other class (aside from mages) will have their basic attacks automated (because, you know, Auto Attacks are basic attacks) while we still have to manually press ours. Simple enough for you?

---

Simple. Yes. Correct? No.

The issue is: AA in FFXIV is NOT for DPS, it's taking one basic attack and making it automatic so you can build TP. More TP = More DPS. The other games you use as your 'examples' don't use TP and so they are flawed in basing a comparison to them. As far as AA, only 1 attack per melee class is being taken away. This leaves us with 3 (at least for a PGL with Light Strike, Pummel, and Flurry) to build TP so we can DPS. Ranged classes like Archer, and Mages aren't having anything taken away, but instead are just adding on melee AA.

AA != DPS
AA = Less spamming

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

what exactly is it you consider AA? automated attacks? or do you mean basic attacks? I can see you arguing about having to actually press buttons yourself, but aside from that AA is not doing anything different in this game.

You may have to press more buttons on archer, thats all not having ranged AA means in this game. if you have a problem with it, its because you dont like pressing buttons, not because its going to some how gimp archers.

How can it gimp archers?

---

Auto Attack is exactly what it is. It's a basic automatic attack that does basic damage. It's basically what Light Shot is. Abilities are attacks that have bonus damage and are limited in use by either cooldowns or energy consumption.

Melee classes get Auto Attack. It's a free attack that's separate from abilities. Archers get a melee Auto Attack but not a ranged one. At range, our basic attack has to be manually pressed and has a cooldown. Why should we have to spam our basic attack when other classes get theirs automated?

Even if it's not for more DPS, it just adds more unnecessary tedium to the Archer class.

Let's assume AA does basic damage and builds TP. Now let's assume LS does basic damage and builds TP. Both attack at the same rate (1-2 seconds). Now imagine your buddy with AA is chilling there waiting for his TP gauge to go up while we frantically mash our LS just to keep up with his TP gauge.

It's just extremely inconvenient. Can you honestly tell me why you think a ranged AA would be a bad idea?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capita

Why should we have to spam our basic attack when other classes get theirs automated?

---

Because that would drastically change how the class is supposed to work.

(and if you play archer by "spamming" your basic attack, you're doing it wrong)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capita

Auto Attack is exactly what it is. It's a basic automatic attack that does basic damage. It's basically what Light Shot is. Abilities are attacks that have bonus damage and are limited in use by either cooldowns or energy consumption.

Melee classes get Auto Attack. It's a free attack that's separate from abilities. Archers get a melee Auto Attack but not a ranged one. At range, our basic attack has to be manually pressed and has a cooldown. Why should we have to spam our basic attack when other classes get theirs automated?

Even if it's not for more DPS, it just adds more unnecessary tedium to the Archer class.

---

Because you have an additional mechanic to consider: Ammo. You would be burning twice as much of it with an AA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capita

Obviously everything about AA is speculation due to the fact that it's not out yet. I'm merely voicing my opinion that forcing a melee AA on a RANGED class is redundant. It has nothing to do with how well I know my class. It's a genuine concern from a person who has played every kind of ranged class AS a ranged class.

And to the person saying I want to play WoW, no. The one thing WoW did right was balance the Hunter class around being able to shoot their main weapon's AA at a distance, and being forced to melee at close range. Using it as an excuse to bash WoW is juvenile. Give a game its credit.


Sometimes I wonder if some of you ever failed reading comprehension.

You're the one who doesn't understand what I'm saying. Every other class (aside from mages) will have their basic attacks automated (because, you know, Auto Attacks are basic attacks) while we still have to manually press ours. Simple enough for you?

---

ok, you just dont want to press buttons, you were making it sound like it was going to have some other effect an lower your ability to dps in endgame or something.

As archer stands, with multishot and trifurcate, there is a big advantage to not shooting all the time. you can get more ACC and damage which also equals more tp (tp is damage based) so essentially you get more ACC damage and TP by using multishot and trifurcate with buffs. if it fires off shots randomly this screws that up, if you make it so buffs dont effect AA attacks, you would have to use close shot, which has less range, or nothing until you get heavy shot later. Heavy shot uses more stamina, so one can assume it will have a longer cool down time in the new system. Also you stop every time you shoot on archer.

Combining all these you see that in this game, AA would not help archer, it would only limit its playstyle and choices. And since archer is currently one of the most loved classes, maybe they shouldnt remake the whole entire basic mechanics of archer to fit it into an AA world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

what do you mean by a charge system.

---

In FFXI Corsair's ability "Quick Draw" (QD) was on a charge system. When I use QD I use a charge, and when that happens the ingame timer builds up that charge again (1 min. per charge without merits). QD is also capped at 2 charges, once I hit the cap on charges the countdown timer doesn't function.

So I could see the system work similar in XIV. Multishot would work the same way, except I'd just nock an arrow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Because that would drastically change how the class is supposed to work.

(and if you play archer by "spamming" your basic attack, you're doing it wrong)

---

Sometimes I wonder.. if he ever played as a Ranged class before.. just saying he does... but meh who know right? He wonder why some people have reading comprehension problems? Or maybe perhaps he can't Comprehend himself that he has to say others can't Read :/. Smells like a personal Attack to me.... :/ oh well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DurtiMonkeyToe

Because you have an additional mechanic to consider: Ammo. You would be burning twice as much of it with an AA

---

That's the tradeoff. Ammo usage is a given, and it's easy enough to compensate for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Because that would drastically change how the class is supposed to work.

(and if you play archer by "spamming" your basic attack, you're doing it wrong)

---

I don't currently "spam" my basic attack. I'm speaking strictly in terms of post-1.18. How the class is "supposed" to work is neither up to me or you, which is exactly why we have these debates.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

ok, you just dont want to press buttons, you were making it sound like it was going to have some other effect an lower your ability to dps in endgame or something.

As archer stands, with multishot and trifurcate, there is a big advantage to not shooting all the time. you can get more ACC and damage which also equals more tp (tp is damage based) so essentially you get more ACC damage and TP by using multishot and trifurcate with buffs. if it fires off shots randomly this screws that up, if you make it so buffs dont effect AA attacks, you would have to use close shot, which has less range, or nothing until you get heavy shot later. Heavy shot uses more stamina, so one can assume it will have a longer cool down time in the new system. Also you stop every time you shoot on archer.

Combining all these you see that in this game, AA would not help archer, it would only limit its playstyle and choices. And since archer is currently one of the most loved classes, maybe they shouldnt remake the whole entire basic mechanics of archer to fit it into an AA world.

---

Every other class has "On hit" effect buffs, including the ones who are getting AA. It's not difficult to change it from "On hit" to a short timer so that it doesn't randomly get used up.

And we don't know if AA will effect endgame DPS yet. It's an assumption on both of us whether it will or it won't. If it doesn't, then it's just a matter of inconvenience. If it does, then it's a matter of balance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Sometimes I wonder.. if he ever played as a Ranged class before.. just saying he does... but meh who know right? He wonder why some people have reading comprehension problems? Or maybe perhaps he can't Comprehend himself that he has to say others can't Read :/. Smells like a personal Attack to me.... :/ oh well

---

Would you like to see my ranged classes in the various games I've played? Only reason I'm not 50 in this game is by choice, not because of lack of skill or understanding of the class.

So please, enlighten me as to your interpretation of the ranged physical DPS niche.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corrderio

Put multishot on a charge system like quick draw from FFXI. Problem solved.

---

Too bad people would cry rivers of blood at the mere thought of FFXI mechanics in XIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jennestia

Too bad people would cry rivers of blood at the mere thought of FFXI mechanics in XIV.

---

Which is sad since that was one of the few things that would actually be a good thing to transfer over to XIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

lol

You're only archer rank 24, so I'll let this one slide.

As you get to know your class better, you'll realize that playing archer is different than melee classes. Choosing when NOT to shoot is just as important, if not more so, than choosing when to shoot.

---

Last page and all, but you could pretty much copypasta RNG in for archer there, and apply it to FFXI instead.

Oh wait, RNG in FFXI is STILL underpowered, and has been regardless of buffs since the original RNG nerf. The only thing that made it competitive for a while pre-Abyssea was a KC and a gun. Good thing all those other melee classes had to pony up for a 50m gil weapon just to compete. Oh wait...

The dude you're shooting down is right on the money... they way they are implementing AA puts ARC at a deficit by default. Unless AA for melee classes is so awful that it's not even used (in other words... the other basic attacks would have to have such short cooldowns that they're spammable, and doing so would have to override the auto attack cycle), ARC is going to have the same deficit RNG has in FFXI.

The only way it will be close to balanced is if Haste cuts down the recast on ranged attacks so that ARC can match pace with melee DDs, but even then the melees will be swinging automatically in between triggering abilities, while ARC will still be mashing 11111111111 just to get their basic hits in.

And hey, it might even have been you who had the right answer to Multishot/Trifurcate... don't have them proc on a ranged AA. Load them up, fire off with a Heavy Shot. Easy peasy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amas

while ARC will still be mashing 11111111111 just to get their basic hits in.

---

That's not how you play Archer effectively.

Looks interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

That's not how you play Archer effectively.

---

That's not the point. You're basing everything you're saying on how classes are now, which is pointless because 1.18 changes everything.

The point is that with the addition of AA, spamming a basic attack to match a melee's DPS output becomes grossly inconvenient. Also, if AA actually does any sort of significant DPS, ARC is left in the dust because of a lack of it unless they turn our WS into actual nukes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amas

Last page and all, but you could pretty much copypasta RNG in for archer there, and apply it to FFXI instead.

Oh wait, RNG in FFXI is STILL underpowered, and has been regardless of buffs since the original RNG nerf. The only thing that made it competitive for a while pre-Abyssea was a KC and a gun. Good thing all those other melee classes had to pony up for a 50m gil weapon just to compete. Oh wait...

The dude you're shooting down is right on the money... they way they are implementing AA puts ARC at a deficit by default. Unless AA for melee classes is so awful that it's not even used (in other words... the other basic attacks would have to have such short cooldowns that they're spammable, and doing so would have to override the auto attack cycle), ARC is going to have the same deficit RNG has in FFXI.

The only way it will be close to balanced is if Haste cuts down the recast on ranged attacks so that ARC can match pace with melee DDs, but even then the melees will be swinging automatically in between triggering abilities, while ARC will still be mashing 11111111111 just to get their basic hits in.

And hey, it might even have been you who had the right answer to Multishot/Trifurcate... don't have them proc on a ranged AA. Load them up, fire off with a Heavy Shot. Easy peasy.

---

heavy shot doesnt exist till you do a quest and hit level 30 and buy it with points. it also has a higher stamina cost.
you also cant move while shooting.
you also dont need to hit 11111 on archer
archer still out dps lancer who has the only haste in this game, and it used to effect ALL Actions.

The other attacks will probably have short cooldowns so that they can be spammed or they will serve no purpose at all.

What is the point of a basic attack that does cone damage/line peircing if its recast is 30 seconds? a WS that is 500 tp cost is more useful

What is the point of a basic attack that gives you a defense and evasion buff for 8 seconds, if its cooldown is 20 seconds

What is the point of a basic attack that does 3 quick attacks for less damage and can follow a heavy or itself if its cooldown is 10 seconds.

The reality is, AA isnt going to be that useful. In fact they themselves said that AA wasnt going to be that useful. Its only purpose was to lower the amount of presses people did, and for some classes it will be more usefull than others. Mostly i think Glad and marauder may benefit, maybe lancer a little, and lnc and marauder wont get that much benefit if they increase amount of possible claims.
arch pugilist and the mages wont get much out of it.

I could be wrong, but based on that video and what they said about other basic attacks, and the overall purpose of AA

AA is a lie, designed to placate the masses.

Now I'm wondering if people even know what Auto Attack is. It's not a WS, so it's not supposed to do more damage than your WS. It's not a spell, so it's not supposed to do more damage than your spells. It's a BASIC ATTACK. No bonus damage, no cost.

We're not talking about spamming our WS, we're talking about spamming our basic ranged attack while everyone else is allowed to just focus on their WS since their basic attacks will become automated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capita

That's not the point. You're basing everything you're saying on how classes are now, which is pointless because 1.18 changes everything.

The point is that with the addition of AA, spamming a basic attack to match a melee's DPS output becomes grossly inconvenient. Also, if AA actually does any sort of significant DPS, ARC is left in the dust because of a lack of it unless they turn our WS into actual nukes.

---

Yes, that is the point, because archer DPS will still revolve around careful useage of multishot, trifurcate, light shot, buffs, and your various weapon skills.

It will not revolve around getting into melee range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Capita

That's not the point. You're basing everything you're saying on how classes are now, which is pointless because 1.18 changes everything.

The point is that with the addition of AA, spamming a basic attack to match a melee's DPS output becomes grossly inconvenient. Also, if AA actually does any sort of significant DPS, ARC is left in the dust because of a lack of it unless they turn our WS into actual nukes.

---

archer didnt need to spam attacks to keep up with mellee spamming attacks before. Archers basic attacks ARE NUKES. multishot+ buffs are the highest damage mellee nukes in the game (moreso than even WS). so much so that an archer out DPS all other melee including haste lancers while only taking basic attack every 20 seconds or so. Archers actually sit around waiting for peoples hate to build up so they can hit something again without dying AND STILL OUT DPS all mellee.

this is while melee are sitting around spamming 11111 non stop. the fact that the computer is going to take over pressing 1 1111 for meleers, doesnt change the fact than an archer can outdmg them all by pressing 1 every 20 seconds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Yes, that is the point, because archer DPS will still revolve around careful useage of multishot, trifurcate, light shot, buffs, and your various weapon skills.

It will not revolve around getting into melee range.

---

You're still missing the point.

Every class will ultimately revolve around their WS and their timing. That doesn't change with or without AA. I don't see why you think AA has such an impact on the usage and timing of WS. It doesn't. And it obviously has nothing to do with going into melee range as an ARC.

The entire argument is about our only AA being a melee attack and the lack of a ranged AA, which will be a huge detriment if AA's DPS is important enough for endgame raids and bosses because that means ARC gets shafted. Skillful use and timing of WS is still important even with AA. I don't understand how you could think otherwise.