Now that leves will be gone from our main exp function...

They really do need to add more party grinding like that was in FFXI and make it worth while so people actually do it. I loved partying with people in FFXI and it was probably the reason why the community was so tight knit. I loved all my friends in FFXI, yet for some reason i feel alienated from my fellow adventurers in FFXIV because the only time i ever get to play with my linkshell mates is the guildleve spams, the rare occasion we camp an NM, or if they happen to be at the same behest camp. Its just not the same as grinding parties where you form a bond with players and truely learn their style of play.

The fact that people are asking for grinding at all says multitudes about the mindsets of the posters here. You shouldn't be asking for party grinding at all, you should be asking how the devs can make character progression both efficient and enjoyable.

So (just so I understand) for party quests you would want something like the ff:xi country missions? But with better rewards? Or exp reward?

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

The cap should be removed as it is one of the main reasons people do not group up and party. You can solo some mobs that are 10 ranks higher than yourself and certainly duo/trio them, this makes being in a large group kind of pointless and also makes fighting tougher Mobs that challenge the group pointless.

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I'd say being able to solo mobs 10 levels higher than you is more of a problem. The balance of the mobs is completely off, something that much higher should be near impossible to take solo. We seem to have the exact opposite problem that FFXI had in its early days.

Mobs of a similar level to the player should offer a suitable challenge. Equipped with HQ gear or rare NM drops, perhaps you can go a few levels higher. Equipped with low rank, outdated equipment, perhaps only a few levels lower.

This should apply to high ranks too, trying to fight the level 99 mobs (that shouldn't really be there at all) should be like trying to kill level 50 mobs at level 1. 1 hit kills all around.

I really hope that the best way to get exp is in a party. I'm fine with leves becoming a solo or small pt game but if party exp isn't the best way to level then everyone will just solo again and no one will want to party.

Now, having said that, I'm happy with what Yoshi-p talked about, but my only fear is that the exp will be better for solo then it would be for a party. I'm hoping we get more info on party based content for leveling be it raids, mob grinding, party quests, or whatever. I'd just like some clarification on what they plan in terms of parties.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

The fact that people are asking for grinding at all says multitudes about the mindsets of the posters here. You shouldn't be asking for party grinding at all, you should be asking how the devs can make character progression both efficient and enjoyable.

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This thread is about coming up with multiple way to progress so instead of focusing on the aspect you don't like why not offer solutions to other forms of progression. The fact is some people do want grind parties to be one of those viable forms and as they are trying to caterer to everyone they should make it a viable option but not the only option.

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

I'd say being able to solo mobs 10 levels higher than you is more of a problem. The balance of the mobs is completely off, something that much higher should be near impossible to take solo. We seem to have the exact opposite problem that FFXI had in its early days.

Mobs of a similar level to the player should offer a suitable challenge. Equipped with HQ gear or rare NM drops, perhaps you can go a few levels higher. Equipped with low rank, outdated equipment, perhaps only a few levels lower.

This should apply to high ranks too, trying to fight the level 99 mobs (that shouldn't really be there at all) should be like trying to kill level 50 mobs at level 1. 1 hit kills all around.

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Completely agree I do think it is ridiculous that we can solo mobs 10 ranks higher than our own and have suggested they look in to that but some people just prefer it that way so that is why I suggested raising/removing the 10 Rank cap as an option to get around that.

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

I really hope that the best way to get exp is in a party. I'm fine with leves becoming a solo or small pt game but if party exp isn't the best way to level then everyone will just solo again and no one will want to party.

Now, having said that, I'm happy with what Yoshi-p talked about, but my only fear is that the exp will be better for solo then it would be for a party. I'm hoping we get more info on party based content for leveling be it raids, mob grinding, party quests, or whatever. I'd just like some clarification on what they plan in terms of parties.

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They should be the same IMO.

Party because it's fun and sociable, not because it's the quickest way to level.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

This thread is about coming up with multiple way to progress so instead of focusing on the aspect you don't like why not offer solutions to other forms of progression. The fact is some people do want grind parties to be one of those viable forms and as they are trying to caterer to everyone they should make it a viable option but not the only option.



Completely agree I do think it is ridiculous that we can solo mobs 10 ranks higher than our own and have suggested they look in to that but some people just prefer it that way so that is why I suggested raising/removing the 10 Rank cap as an option to get around that.

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it doesnt really matter what level people can take on, whether its their level or higher, its just cosmetic, whether its their level or higher, the real limiting factor is the upper and lower limits, and the exp reward, our current 10 level plan would be fine, if the cap wasnt 10 levels. Shifting monster balancing 10 levels would also work, but at the same time they would have to shift sp gains, becuase lets face it, fighting monsters 10 levels above you doesnt even give that great sp for most things.
The main problem with shifting levels, is it would be really jarring, and probably the balance of the drops and levels it would take to get them would go even further out of balance. for example raptor sinew, already comes late in the leveling process, players to 10 levels lower would make it even more ridiculous,

crafter needs to find someone 20 levels higher than the gear hes making to kill for said gear? Not to mention level wise, by 40 and 50 we should start fighting the interesting things, which currently we start to. efts beastmen, at 50 dragons start becoming feasible.

another solution would be to add some more difficult mobs, or like elite versions that parties would target, that give more SP.

anyhow i agree one of the main problems with combat is we are limited to fighting the things that provide interesting fights to a duo or trio.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Why remove the cap? It did away with a huge part of the problem that hit FFXI: people started overcamping everything they could for max exp/hour. This affected gearing trends and created asinine "expectations" of what people should have when grouping. It also created a stupid and pointless status quo while leveling. That's stress and pressure not needed during the leveling process.

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I know that you posted after this and you made some good points, but I must disagree with you on this point.

In FF11 there were expectations of people in parties that were valid. Once you hit level 72 and were ready for partying in Caedarva Mire you were expected to know that wearing fang earrings, fang necklace and NQ Amemet mantle was gimp. If that was "stressful" then there's no way you'd make it at endgame.

It was training. The skills you learned in Valkurm Dunes and Qufim Island built up to ready you for Garliage Citadel etc. There was a progression. It may have seemed like a grind but you did get to go to new places and fight different monsters. There was a social element to it because if you were doing something wrong or were new to an area people would help you.

Yes, you could solo some jobs in FF11 like beastmaster, black mage or summoner, but coming from a Maat's Cap holder I'll tell you it wasn't easy.

That being said I have read people's suggestions and the whole FF11 vs. FFXIV debate, but since both are SE's I think that some comparison is valid. They really should take the good parts of FF11, otherwise, why name it Final Fantasy at all?

Here's what they need to fix FFXIV:

1. Experience (SP) bands or rings.
2. Signet/Sigil/Alliance boosts. The competitive nature of Bastok vs San D'oria was fun. They should do the same with the Grand Companies.
3. Remove SP 10 level cap. If you solo a red mob you should get more SP than killing a green mob. (likewise as a party)
4. Emphasize and fix party size bonuses. You shold get more SP in a 6 person party than a 2 person party.
5. Add monster kill chain bonuses. If you kill the mobs in a row as in FF11 you get SP bonuses. This encourages parties to work together to be more efficient.
6. Allow monsters to be pulled out of their wandering range. This would allow for more parties in other areas.
7. Add Fields of Valor type quests. Those were fun solo and in groups.
8. Add level sync parties.
9. Get rid of fatigue

It's really sad to see them "adjust" SP without providing concrete examples or balancing Party SP as indicated above. I'd really like Yoshida-san to tell us that when doing leve link with 3 leves you'll get 70% less SP. But that's too much to expect from SE.

some people want quest/story based leveling cause pure grind is boring.
some people want monster grind leveling cause doing quests/leve based play is requires you to kill x mobs or collect y things then "stop killing" to go get next quest/leve thing...making it a slow processess

so maybe we need an epic storyline...one that is about that of an offline rpg.... where you level by advancing through the story. but what to do once the story is complete? would you be level 50? do you have to level with people your same exact level?

how about a chrono cross leveling system? do a quest to unlock a star...everyone is technically level one...just gear and traits add to stats...star gives you more job points to equip abilities? or need x amount of stars to equip certain gear. this of course would have to make each quest decently long in length and place NMs around the world as "bosses" and such. having the star system would mean people have to work together cause everyone wants to unlock every star. there would have to be a very large amount of quests to pull this off though.

just some thoughts

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

The fact that people are asking for grinding at all says multitudes about the mindsets of the posters here. You shouldn't be asking for party grinding at all, you should be asking how the devs can make character progression both efficient and enjoyable.

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Holy crap thank you. I didn't want to say it, but it looks like the vast majority of FFXI/FFXIV fans are all single track, grindan oriented players. Virtually every RPG in the last half a decade or more has done away with grinding; and here we have a whole bunch of people who cling to grinding like it's the holy grail of gaming.

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9. Get rid of fatigue

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I don't know how I forgot to mention this so far. IMO this is the single biggest reason that I saw people leaving the game. It wasn't the battle system. It wasn't lack of content. It was SE telling the players that they were not allowed to play the game as much as they wanted. I understand WHY SE thought this was a good idea but the end result was many players felt like they were children being told by their parents how long they could do something. It sent entirely the wrong message and many players DID NOT LIKE FATIGUE.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

In FF11 there were expectations of people in parties that were valid. Once you hit level 72 and were ready for partying in Caedarva Mire you were expected to know that wearing fang earrings, fang necklace and NQ Amemet mantle was gimp.

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Bad reasoning to begin with. The fang earrings thing I can understand, well, once stuff like spike earrings became easier to get rather than be subject to the sad rule HQs followed in XI. The NQ Amemet mantle, no. Not when the HQ was much, much more expensive. On Asura when I was leveling the HQ mantle was seven or eight times what the mantle was worth NQ before the introduction of stuff like forager's mantle. I hated the "farm beehive chips between level ranges so that people don't wrongfully consider you a gimp" aspect of that mess.

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If that was "stressful" then there's no way you'd make it at endgame.

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Gear elitism is fine in the context of endgame. I've been there as well and put in my time to research my options and went with what worked for me.

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The skills you learned in Valkurm Dunes and Qufim Island built up to ready you for Garliage Citadel etc. There was a progression. It may have seemed like a grind but you did get to go to new places and fight different monsters. There was a social element to it because if you were doing something wrong or were new to an area people would help you.

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Bad reasoning, and has been debunked. You could hit the level cap and still not know how to play your class. Forced partying had nothing to do with the "training" one needed to actually be useful at the level cap.

Maybe forced partying wasn't required, but if you were a good player at the game it was a useful tool to learn more about your role. Sure you could be an idiot and just get carried, but you'd get kicked out of my party if you were'nt doing your best at your job.

You learned valuable lessons in the game at different camps. There was a progression. It wasn't requred to learn skills but it helped. No one ever said: "You should try this......"? There was a social aspect to partying in groups in FF11.
My friends didn't play in NQ Amemet at Caedarva Mire. At 72 if you couldn't afford HQ Amemet you were an amateur.

I'm not going to beat the FF11 was better than FFXIV because the horse is dead.

All I'm saying is that there are some good things that SE should take from the old version. That's all.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Duelle this thread is about making multiple forms of gaining SP/EXP and the only way that can be achieved for Grind Parties to become viable is to remove the cap. If everything was fine as is then there would be grind parties everywhere but there is not and this cap is one of the reasons for that.

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I understand what you're saying, but at the same time I keep in mind the implications of how that would affect party dynamics. Not even level correction is much of a deterrent when it comes to it.

As was put so well, the problem is more people being able to solo mobs 10 ranks above them. If you ask me, I'd go with the idea to create an "elite" bracket for mobs and have those be in dungeons and be grinding targets in the open field.

It's a difficult situation seeing that if you make normal mobs more difficult you'll have to up SP gains upon kill. If you create elites, you need to place them somewhere where they won't intrude on your average traveler when not in the context of dungeons. Level correction would still have to be fiddled with to a degree. I'd go the WoW route and make it so that anything more than three levels/ranks higher than you as normal mobs would be very difficult and elites being near impossible to kill, and balance combat between PCs and NPCs around that.

I'm just going to throw this out there, but I don't see it as a mob difficulty issue. I see it as an SE issue where they don't scale the SP with the difficulty of the mob that you kill. Rather they capped the SP at 10 levels above your rank and give you the SP for a much lower level mob.

There are many difficult mobs that no one kills because the risk/reward is unbalanced.

No one mentions that they really ramped up the SP per level in FFXIV versus FF11. I know they won't change that now because that's not SE's modus operandi, but I thought that I'd throw it out there. 44001 XP to level from 75-76 in FF11 compared in FFXIV from 31~32 it's 45,000SP. (XP is useless in FFXIV once you hit the 50 cap). It still is a valid comparison because the SP per mob is comparable. Yes, leves, etc. skew the comparison, but when you're grinding DoH at 280-300sp per synth and it's 45,000 until you get your next rank, that's one hell of a grind.

I'm fairly certain the goal is to make this game not about leveling up. The Devs seem to want to make leveling something that just happens naturally. That being said, the only thing that ever stopped partying from being viable in this game was the inability to find people who wanted to party.. Grinding will never go away and it will always be the most efficient way to hit level cap, but whats the point of hitting level cap if you just pass by everything else in the game? I think SE has the right Idea giving us leves, quests, dungeons and what I can only assume will be party invasions of beast-men settlements. In the end, if things are done right, we will all be so busy doing various fun activities with our friends we won't even notice our XP bars going up and grinding will be lost to we who play the game part of the game.

Oh yea, I also meant to point out that there is a tier system in this game.. You may get capped SP at 10 level over your own but there is still variation. Some types of enemies cap at 200 other cap at 350.. If your not getting good SP in your grind you should try fighting something else.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Oh yea, I also meant to point out that there is a tier system in this game.. You may get capped SP at 10 level over your own but there is still variation. Some types of enemies cap at 200 other cap at 350.. If your not getting good SP in your grind you should try fighting something else.

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What about when you solo a red mob that is over 10 levels above you and you get 120SP?

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

What about when you solo a red mob that is over 10 levels above you and you get 120SP?

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Then you should probably not be fighting Chigo's, beetles, fireflies and rats...
Also these cap out at 150, not 120, so maybe you were in -20% fatigue

I don't know about you, But personally i am ok with a R45-49 Spiny dormouse giving less SP than an R45-49 mistbeard buccaneer, or R45-49 Qiqirn Poacher
Both of which will cap out at 300 or 450

Well, I was a level 4 LNC and I destroyed a red copper coblyn for less SP than the green coblyns. Didn't seem fair, but I just figured it was another SE "FU".

It does seem like when groups take down tougher mobs than their level that the SP is not equivalent with the difficulty of the mob.

Fatigue strikes again. Praise the 12! Save us from fatigue!

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

Well, I was a level 4 LNC and I destroyed a red copper coblyn for less SP than the green coblyns. Didn't seem fair, but I just figured it was another SE "FU".

It does seem like when groups take down tougher mobs than their level that the SP is not equivalent with the difficulty of the mob.

Fatigue strikes again. Praise the 12! Save us from fatigue!

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Well 1-20 is a special case... SE changed the SP at low level so all the talk about level SP cap tiers is different for R1-R20

I think it's great that solo play is being optimized. I hope they will do the same for party play.

I think that a few things need to be in place for this to happen though.
* Better search & LFG tools
* Improve monster distribution world-wide to allow for group grinding
* Transportation system improved (mounts/ships)
* Fun party mechanics -- improved BR system or Skillchain

At least for the foundation of a good grouping/grindng system. There are some great ideas for party questing systems in this thread. I would happily give up the grind if there were more fun options that still involved grouping.

These are all good things that people are discussing. I will be doing revisions of the OP after work today, I would have done it but was watching Transformers last night (It was AWESOME)

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Originally Posted by Balbanes

I think it's great that solo play is being optimized. I hope they will do the same for party play.

I think that a few things need to be in place for this to happen though.
* Better search & LFG tools
* Improve monster distribution world-wide to allow for group grinding
* Transportation system improved (mounts/ships)
* Fun party mechanics -- improved BR system or Skillchain

At least for the foundation of a good grouping/grindng system. There are some great ideas for party questing systems in this thread. I would happily give up the grind if there were more fun options that still involved grouping.

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Oh yeah its great they are revising the game for solo players, but if they aren't doing something to help people level when they are in groups, which we haven't heard anything about whatsoever, and hasn't even been hinted at, at the exact same time its screwing over alot of the player base. All the ideas are great, that have been in this thread, including yours for party play. I am just very weary of this patch with 1.19 not coming until more than likely the end of summer.

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Originally Posted by Req

Oh yeah its great they are revising the game for solo players, but if they aren't doing something to help people level when they are in groups, which we haven't heard anything about whatsoever, and hasn't even been hinted at, at the exact same time its screwing over alot of the player base. All the ideas are great, that have been in this thread, including yours for party play. I am just very weary of this patch with 1.19 not coming until more than likely the end of summer.

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More than likely they will make group play bit more accessible if they do things right.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

R45-49 Spiny dormouse giving less SP than an R45-49 mistbeard buccaneer, or R45-49 Qiqirn Poacher
Both of which will cap out at 300 or 450

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Then why give the mobs levels at all if they aren't representative of the difficulty of the mob?

If the dormouse is easier to kill and gives less exp, shouldn't it just be a lower level mob than the Buccaneer and Poacher?

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

Then why give the mobs levels at all if they aren't representative of the difficulty of the mob?

If the dormouse is easier to kill and gives less exp, shouldn't it just be a lower level mob than the Buccaneer and Poacher?

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no, a dragon who is experienced as you, shouldnt be the same as a rat who is experienced as you. some things are just tougher because of who they are. If you make every monster the same exp, then why fight anything that has high hp? why fight anything that has strong special attacks? This is especially important with level difference systems, because if the rat was lower level it would be weaker and take more damage just from that alone.

This allows you to design interesting monsters and also have multiple playstyles. Rats might be better for soloists, because they have less hp, whereas a dragon is made more for a larger grooup to fight. also you can make enemies that die fast, or enemies that take long without making one intrinisicly better than the other.
Perfect example is you can make as much sp at certain levels chaining puks as you can from killing crabs, because although puks die faster, crabs give more sp. This allows people in the same level range to have different target monsters based on thier own party makeup/number of people.

now the problem becomes, accurately balancing the risk/reward/speed when deciding each species base sp levels.

truthfully more rpgs have worked on the concept of differnt species giving different sp/exp/gil rather than just a straight level difference.

another good thing about it, is you dont end up hunting rats forever, as they introduce better monsters, and you have better stats/gears/teamwork, you can take on harder monster types.
Your a bad ass when you choose to get SP off of dragons, more so then when you try to get sp off of a rat.

It was sad that in FFXI level 70 people would still seek out the things they killed as level 1 newbs, like crabs to exp on, because they were the same as fighting an ancient undead warrior. To me it makes a lot more sense.

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Originally Posted by Req

Oh yeah its great they are revising the game for solo players, but if they aren't doing something to help people level when they are in groups, which we haven't heard anything about whatsoever, and hasn't even been hinted at, at the exact same time its screwing over alot of the player base. All the ideas are great, that have been in this thread, including yours for party play. I am just very weary of this patch with 1.19 not coming until more than likely the end of summer.

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As to this, I think Yoshida has hinted at your/our concern.

We still have some ways to go, but FINAL FANTASY XIV will gradually shift from being a grind-centric game to one that offers enjoyment for all playing styles and circumstances with its ever-expanding variety of content.

If FFXIV is to offer enjoyment for all playing styles, you would think that also includes party play.

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Originally Posted by Balbanes

As to this, I think Yoshida has hinted at your/our concern.

We still have some ways to go, but FINAL FANTASY XIV will gradually shift from being a grind-centric game to one that offers enjoyment for all playing styles and circumstances with its ever-expanding variety of content.

If FFXIV is to offer enjoyment for all playing styles, you would think that also includes party play.

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Yeah, I was looking at this and perhaps some of the ideas were coming up with will be in the game to offer variety.

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Originally Posted by Balbanes

I think it's great that solo play is being optimized. I hope they will do the same for party play.

I think that a few things need to be in place for this to happen though.
* Better search & LFG tools
* Improve monster distribution world-wide to allow for group grinding
* Transportation system improved (mounts/ships)
* Fun party mechanics -- improved BR system or Skillchain

At least for the foundation of a good grouping/grindng system. There are some great ideas for party questing systems in this thread. I would happily give up the grind if there were more fun options that still involved grouping.

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The search/LFG tool works fine right now, but people don't use it.

Aside from that, there needs to be a button to invite people rather than having to type "/party cmd invite [Name]" or whatever it is. Shouldn't have to remember a list of commands to do "long-distance" things.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

The search/LFG tool works fine right now, but people don't use it.

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People don't use it because it doesn't work fine.

It's a vicious cycle.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

People don't use it because it doesn't work fine.

It's a vicious cycle.

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People don't use it because it's confusing and tedious at best to try to use. In other words, it's a piece of crap. It may work, but not in a way that makes sense to any normal human.

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Originally Posted by Physic

no, a dragon who is experienced as you, shouldnt be the same as a rat who is experienced as you. some things are just tougher because of who they are. If you make every monster the same exp, then why fight anything that has high hp? why fight anything that has strong special attacks? This is especially important with level difference systems, because if the rat was lower level it would be weaker and take more damage just from that alone.

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Because different types of mobs can have different challenges they offer, a crab could have higher defence, a dragon more attack, a rat more evasive. Mobs should certainly vary in strengths, weaknesses, resistances to different types of attack and different elements, but if you make the level mean nothing then you might as well just have a level 1 dragon that's hard as nails and give a boat load of SP.

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Originally Posted by Physic

another good thing about it, is you dont end up hunting rats forever, as they introduce better monsters, and you have better stats/gears/teamwork, you can take on harder monster types.
Your a bad ass when you choose to get SP off of dragons, more so then when you try to get sp off of a rat.

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I certainly wouldn't want to fighting the same mob at every level. But that's one problem FFXIV has now and FFXI has always had too. I don't want to see rats, rabbits or squirrels or anything like that as we're getting in to the higher levels, not even if they're better for solo players. As a high level adventurer I don't want to be hunting rodents, I want to be hunting dragons, undead, monstrous fiends and that's whether I'm solo or in a party. A party should certainly offer the chance to bigger prey or prey in larger numbers but mobs should have their levels earned.

To go by FFXI's naming conventions, I want a mob the same level as me to be an even match, not some push over that can barely scratch me or something so hard that I don't stand a chance against it.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

People don't use it because it doesn't work fine.

It's a vicious cycle.

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people used it before when sp parties were actually viable, and it worked pretty well, its not really difficult to use at all, and if people are putting up parties its good, but they did say they were combining it with a search feature as well. Combined with a search feature the only problem i see is not being able to join while people are in battle. (one advantage of the setting recruitment is you can go out and do something without searching constantly)

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

Because different types of mobs can have different challenges they offer, a crab could have higher defence, a dragon more attack, a rat more evasive. Mobs should certainly vary in strengths, weaknesses, resistances to different types of attack and different elements, but if you make the level mean nothing then you might as well just have a level 1 dragon that's hard as nails and give a boat load of SP.



I certainly wouldn't want to fighting the same mob at every level. But that's one problem FFXIV has now and FFXI has always had too. I don't want to see rats, rabbits or squirrels or anything like that as we're getting in to the higher levels, not even if they're better for solo players. As a high level adventurer I don't want to be hunting rodents, I want to be hunting dragons, undead, monstrous fiends and that's whether I'm solo or in a party. A party should certainly offer the chance to bigger prey or prey in larger numbers but mobs should have their levels earned.

To go by FFXI's naming conventions, I want a mob the same level as me to be an even match, not some push over that can barely scratch me or something so hard that I don't stand a chance against it.

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but ultimately if things give the same SP they should all take the same time to kill. So any monster with high hp, or high defense would be a monster it wasnt worth it to fight. Then any monster with high attack wouldnt be worth it. They have monsters that are built to be longer fights, like efts, and monsters that are built to be quick dangerous fights, like puks. You cant have that type of monster diversity if the SP is the same.

Its not to say you cant take on a dragon by yourself, but if you can its because your gear, actions, and player skill is high/right (physical level used to help, but probably wont anymore) and skills at your disposal definitely helps, you can take on those higher sp mobs as you get higher, because you have more skills at your disposal.

goodbye leve onry noobs. Hello skillful mob grind parties.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

goodbye leve onry noobs. Hello skillful mob grind parties.

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Unless the 10 rank SP cap is being raised or removed, there is not much skillful involved in grind parties. It doesn't make sense sp-wise to kill anything that's even reasonably difficult to kill at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

goodbye leve onry noobs. Hello skillful mob grind parties.

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This is the biggest thign for me :D I like parties...and mob grinding :o

since when is mob grinding skillful?