Anyone not so excited for 2.2 and the future of this game?

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Originally Posted by Grailer

time for SE to start to worry when players start talking about other games on their games forums ?

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there will always be people who game hope. Just play the new MMO for few months waiting for the next release thinking it will be best thing ever, just to always have it be the same and start waiting again.

Many of us who have been playing MMO's since pre-WOW have this idea if what a perfect MMO, and it is something that will likely never exist as no company would put the time and money to make a truly quality MMO that caters to the few percent of players that are looking for that niche.

I personally have learned to take a game for what it is and just have fun, and as a result I am looking forward to 2.2, partially because it will tell me just how dedicated to the game I will be for the next big chunk of time, but mostly for new things to do. Twintania is the only thing in game I have not completed, but my static finally started to focus on her and will have it down soon enough. I enjoy running current content still, but more variety to keep from burning out on any one thing is always a good thing, and 2.2 will give us more to do so less repetition.

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

Most of this seems like a nightmare,ultra rare progression items omg no. 6 months and 18-20 months to complete something...not just a no, but a hell no lol.

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That's the point.. for most players to say 'hell no'.

The 6-18 month quests are for prestige gear. The items they give are the absolute best --and should be for ~2 years, but the vast majority of players (like you and I) will likely ignore the commitment/headache required and instead focus on the more accessible linear gear progression for their gear fix. (Coil 31-70, CT floors 15-25, Sastasha Insane Mode, Titan-Super-Ultimate-PinHead-Arena-Edition, etc..)

Without an (almost) impossible goal and proportional reward, the game is a treadmill, and only a treadmill. I don't think I'd ever have the time or dedication to obtain one of those 6-18month ultimate weapons if they were ever added. But it would make my game experience better to think that I could, and I'd be really happy to see someone who had one :)

ARR has good foundation ?

The combat system is so boring, and unless they tweak it drastically, i dont know how they can add fun to it

you have your rotation, and none of the skill in your rota gonna make you feel powerfull, critical are the same, u dont even care of the big number cause they re drown in the cycle

i miss FFXI where u were doing a OMG weapon skill, main stat/sub stat was also more complex, like dmg was not same on HNM until you reach that high cap

now, everyone find the optimal rotation in few days, then nothing to speak about the game, u have 1 strat that everyone use, and u wont be able to impose your own unless you have a static

at start i was confident, that the game was generic/simple, until they balance it, and then they would add a layer of complexity, but i dont think it gonna come in 2.2 or 2.3, they just gonna give us other primals , dj, same shit

nothing makes me want to keep subbing, i rather take a break and come back in 1/2 years "if" they make the game more interesting

i know many gonna say "okthxbye" "you re free to leave" blabla

of course, but im part of the people who never abandon the game, always cheering up other to say "game gonna be better thrust SE"

When you loose the core of player that has been supporting you through bad times all that time, i think it means SE s doing a big mistake

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Originally Posted by Mihael_Longclaw

Again Dark Souls leads by example, little to no grinding in that game :>
You can grind if you want, but it's not necessary for anything :D

& yet it still lasts 1000s of hours, truely shocking :>

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There was an enormous amount of grinding in Dark Souls. That is of course unless you are talking about Dom's Mega Mule, which was a hack.

I absolutely loved Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. I was an active member of FCs, the wikis, and tourneys. I love them. I have yet to find another series to fill the void.

I'm just saying this statement is misleading.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

And that doesn't depress you? I miss multiple equally viable gearsets, situational gear sets etc. Things that take years to acquire.

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While I'm not averse to a bit of pain to gain some nice gear (O-hat, Leaping Boots, Emp Pin to name a few) I don't think it should take years, although I'm guessing you weren't too serious about that timeframe. I guess what I miss in gear is choice. If I was kiting on my Ninja I'd be wearing my AF boots at night for the movement buff plus the -% damage crafted osode, Earth staff etc. If I was avoidance tanking I'd load up on a combination of evasion/agility/haste gear to both improve my avoidance and the refresh rate of Utsusemi. Then you have all the macro pieces for specific weaponskills, nuking sets, etc. In FFXIV it's the same tired old iLevel route of WoW where gear feels like it is designed by accountants with item budgets. There is no room for personalisation or experimentation and that is sad.

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Originally Posted by NefGP

Content didn't last in XI because of "Super low drop rates" (though some gear was notoriously awful I won't deny) it lasted because up until Abyssea and the level cap increases past 75, Tanaka maintained a mantra of never obsoleting old content but instead adding new content with new rewards that were comparable with older ones.

Didn't feel like grinding Sky? Go do Limbus/Sea/Salvage/Assault/Dynamis/whatever for your endgame gear. They were always adding more things to do without ever negating older stuff and it's what led to the thing I adored most about XI (after the presentation and job system) - endless stuff to do, and all of it meaningful. Even if you had everything you wanted it was fun helping out friends too. XI was not only the epitome of the series, but it just seemed to have one of if not the best MMO communities out there....

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I played XI for about 6 years, and it was a great game, and will always to me be the best MMO I have ever played. But, lets be honest if another game came out like XI, I'd stay as far away from it as possible because it wouldn't fit into my life as an adult.

The community was as good as it was because only the subset of MMO players who liked that style of game would actually stick it out for the long run. Most of the players I knew in XI ranged from 16-25, mainly students (HS or college) and those without families or numerous life commitments. Most of these players are now adults, have families, real jobs, and would not have the time to commit to a game like XI again.

a new MMO in todays world tried to focus that same group of people (16-25yr olds with time and money to spend), and guess what, work for it = quit; no progression for killing this boss = bad design; low drop rate = something is broken, please fix it; no new things ever month or two = too slow content and quit.

Point is, the MMO market has changed as the younger gamers dictate the markets, and they do not like the same thing that the same group liked 10yrs ago. most MMO's have investors = need big numbers or f2p; and those who shell out their own money will not risk it for a small subset of gamers.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

In FFXIV it's the same tired old iLevel route of WoW where gear feels like it is designed by accountants with item budgets. There is no room for personalisation or experimentation and that is sad.

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Excuse me, as an accountant I am offended by your statement- I find this gear boring as well. So, let blame it on someone even more boring than accountants... like... librarians or anyone that likes lima beans.

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Originally Posted by OptimalZedd

ARR has good foundation ?
The combat system is so boring, and unless they tweak it drastically, i dont know how they can add fun to it
...
i miss FFXI where u were doing a OMG weapon skill, main stat/sub stat was also more complex, like dmg was not same on HNM until you reach that high cap

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..... did someone just say sit there and press one skill every 30sec or so (ok some jobs more often, but dps was like afk chat oh tp full let me press a skill) was fun and exciting but XIV is boring needing to do something every 2sec or so? So we should change XIV to all auto attacks and about 6 skills that are rarely used, and the hope purpose of them (skill chians) would be fully avoided...

While I do miss being able to talk all day in combat, its 2014 everyone is in voice chat playing MMOs so the only reason for not using many skills is gone imo.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Excuse me, as an accountant I am offended by your statement- I find this gear boring as well. So, let blame it on someone even more boring than accountants... like... librarians or anyone that likes lima beans.

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I too am an accountant. That's at least two people on this forum who clearly committed some terrible sin in a previous life.

Still, thanks to Monty Python, we at least have our own shanty.

I am not really excited about the whole game anymore, my Sub is running out and ill be done with the game.

While i respect everyones opinion about this game, i am going to mention my thoughts about ARR.

I am an old XI Veteran and also played XIV 1.0 until the end (1.23), and the whole game design doesnt fit to a FF series anymore. The Job Balance is terrible the Combatsystem itself is just a dodge-skill-spam fest and i cant really enjoy any Encounter because i am watching my CD's and Red Markers of Death.

While i dont have anything against Fast Combat Speed or Slow Combat Speed is that a fast Combat System shouldnt use much skills. I tested ESo at the beta Weekend, i have to mention i liked the Maximum of 6 skills, alone this fact Shows that you finally start to enjoy the Boss itself instead of watching your CD's, same Counts for Wildstar.

I always ask myself why SE didnt builded up on XI and why Yoshi didnt builded up on 1.23. FF were known in the oldest series as tactical RPG and it was tactical in XI atleast it felt more tactical due the slow combat mechanics and the Random Generator TP move attacks from Bosses.

Probably true that Yoshi had to go the safest way by creating a WoW game atleast for the start because (i cant deny it) it had success. But a common MMO design (WOW nature) doesnt automatical mean a success over the time. MMOs like ARR growing out of the nowhere and the competition is hard and less Companys can Keep up with it.

There are serval MMOs they probably going to hurt ARR and also WoW but to be honest WoW has more then 6M subbings and only the tooth of time will kill WoW sooner or later. ARR will get hurt alot if they loose lets say 200k of their subbings thats 1/3 from the current subbings and thats a number which is realistic in my eyes.

TESO which becomes interesting atleast for fans and some People they enjoy this and i think ARR currently holds some of this fans.

Some will join Wildstar (what ive heard some of the vanilla wow devs working on this game but correct me if i am wrong)

We get EQN with sandbox design which will attract alot sandbox mmo Players they just waiting to jump from a themepark to a sandbox one

SE should just have sticked to the Basics they have known and just should have builded on top of it.

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Originally Posted by KogaDrake

..... did someone just say sit there and press one skill every 30sec or so (ok some jobs more often, but dps was like afk chat oh tp full let me press a skill) was fun and exciting but XIV is boring needing to do something every 2sec or so? So we should change XIV to all auto attacks and about 6 skills that are rarely used, and the hope purpose of them (skill chians) would be fully avoided...

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As acounter-argument: let me set you a scenario

Garlaige Citadel, Party level 33.

Party's targetted mob reaches 1/3 hp
BRD runs out to pull mob
BRD dodges holes of insta-death on the way back
Bat reaches camp as previous mob dies
THF preloads Sneak Attack, Trick Attack
Off-Tank provokes mob
BRD sings buff
THF hits bat with acid bolt to lower defence
PLD lines up behind mob
THF takes up position behind PLD
DD (any, really) uses weaponskill, opens skill chain
BLM starts casting Blizzard II
THF uses SATA Viper Bite
BRD sings second buff
Distortion Skill Chain closes, knocking 30% hp off the Bat
PLD provokes or flashes to cement hate
WHM can now finally heal the first voke without taking hate
Blizzard 2 lands as a Magic Burst, knocking a further 10-20% hp off
Bat reaches 33% HP
Return to step 1

This was the amount of co-ordination and communication needed to efficiently kill a single mob in a low-mid level exp party. If you did this, you weren't great, you were acceptable.

Just because you have to spam a button every 2.5 seconds does not mean the XI system was any less engaging. Quite the opposite, in fact. You needed to rely on each other to do your jobs correctly. Healer cures too early? Possible death. Paladin does not get in position? Possible death. Thief fails SATA? possible death. I had to pay far more attention in XI than I do in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

As acounter-argument: let me set you a scenario

Garlaige Citadel, Party level 33.

This was the amount of co-ordination and communication needed to efficiently kill a single mob in a low-mid level exp party. If you did this, you weren't great, you were acceptable.

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Ah those were the days. Can't really expect today's gamers to actually work together though.

Think my favorite Garlaige party was this awesome group THFx2, NIN, WAR, BLM, WHM.

Myself and the other thf were rotating distortion skillchains, myself with the nin tank and the other with the war. Rotating pulling as well, was pretty fast paced if you ask me but was fun as hell. Only thing really limiting us was our healers MP but of course neither of us would pull if we weren't sure he had enough MP.

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Originally Posted by Imapooonu

There was an enormous amount of grinding in Dark Souls. (snip)

I absolutely loved Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. I was an active member of FCs, the wikis, and tourneys. I love them. I have yet to find another series to fill the void.

I'm just saying this statement is misleading.

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If you wanted to grind out Souls for levels, go ahead, but by NO means necessary, neither is upgrading gear and in fact, all the upgrading stones are given to you in the game if you explore hard enough, help the characters and the likes.

If you wanted a Soul Level 120 PvP Build min/maxxed with 73 poise breakpoint, your choice of weapon and whatever gear you like best, sure you can spend some hours grinding away to +15 it, but Dark Souls is always skill + patience + learning > gear + level.

You can beat the game at the lowest of levels, not even using a shield, a little toothpick if you want.

Grinding is 100% optional in those games

One important note that I don't think anyone has mentioned. Yes, the game is only 4 months (disregarding the version and all its updates) and people are comparing it to 11 at launch. HOWEVER people don't have the patience anymore to wait like when 11 first was released. There is more competition now, and people will jump ship, especially casuals who have less invested. I consider myself casual to mid, I play most nights 2-3 hrs, but causual in the respect that if I don't get the BIS i don't really care as long as I can still do content. I have all crafting at 50 and 2 jobs at 50 (i83 and i73). I think that is what FFXIV is trying to balance, with some myth option BIS along with coil drops.

They need to add content for everyone of course, and quickly as possible. That includes crafting (I suppose gathering) as well. Crafting is has so much less value now. Elder Scrolls is the biggest shorterm threat to their player base. I'm sure I will stick around, the game has done enough to keep me, however the lure to try out Elder Scrolls will be dependent on if there is enough to do (that I want) in FFXIV.

Things not to add: More fate related events
Some things to add: Free Roam NM, Quests that encourage party finder utilization, i80 to 90 gear option with alt stats ( as mentioned) with a mixture of solo/party acquisition, boss fights with more random elements vs pattern memorization. materia enhancement for certain upper level dungeon drops (maybe bring back gear loss with forbidden meld for these), more crafted high level options, crafted companion gear that gives traits or actions, crafted or otherwise obtained gear/weapon that gives chance for regen/refresh/stat up/instant ability/free use proc. And don't add stupid traits if you do, like regen in daylight on full moon kinda thing...
And skillchains!

Not everyone has 8h+ a day, every day, to spend on this game. That's why older content becomes easier to access for those who are casual players and new content is hard for those hardcore players. New content will make old content obsolete in the long run yes but that's how the game will evolve.

Repeating the same content over and over because it is impossibly hard will push away all the casuals and will cut off 50% of the game's population.

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Originally Posted by Rona

Snip

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I'd say the PvP that's still thriving is pretty endless, as well as the many many challenge runs and builds you can customise.
The weapons are so different, you can go as Death with the Black-hemmed Gold Robes, Darkwraith Mask, Great Scythe. Or dual wield shields and become a tank.

As long as people have imagination, Dark Souls shall have content :D

I'm still playing it how many years after release, and sos a large group of the community , lol

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Originally Posted by Mihael_Longclaw

Again Dark Souls leads by example, little to no grinding in that game :>
You can grind if you want, but it's not necessary for anything :D

& yet it still lasts 1000s of hours, truely shocking :>

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comparing a single player game to an mmo is beyond pointless

well they shut down the 42 page thread for being off topic when it wasnt at all...cant have people going and making giant threads that are not for their current design for too long now can we?

anyways if 2.2 cant show signs of a move to some things i might enjoy and its not just more ilevel gear, primals and dungeons made the same way...im out for good...and im pretty sure its gonna feel like everything we have now. Sadly my friend put down for a few months and now regrets it, but you cant undo it sadly. Lucky me i do month to month using crysta so i cant get screwed lol. I do really want to love the game, but it seems to just like everything else out there and has no plans of changing.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Not everyone has 8h+ a day, every day, to spend on this game. That's why older content becomes easier to access for those who are casual players and new content is hard for those hardcore players. New content will make old content obsolete in the long run yes but that's how the game will evolve.

Repeating the same content over and over because it is impossibly hard will push away all the casuals and will cut off 50% of the game's population.

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I'm not saying you need to spend 8 hours a day, I'm saying there should be more to the game than just dungeons, loot, dungeons, loot, loot becomes useless, new dungeon, new loot, dungeon, loot. And so on.

I want this game to succeed more than anything, I love so much of what it does, but then there's so many things that push me away.

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Originally Posted by alhandra

comparing a single player game to an mmo is beyond pointless

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You're right. An MMO should last longer.
& Dark Souls has more community interaction than this game.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Repeating the same content over and over because it is impossibly hard will push away all the casuals and will cut off 50% of the game's population.

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These days, casuals consist way more then 50% in most MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Mihael_Longclaw

I'm not saying you need to spend 8 hours a day, I'm saying there should be more to the game than just dungeons, loot, dungeons, loot, loot becomes useless, new dungeon, new loot, dungeon, loot. And so on.

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welcome to mmo end game?

you get expansions every so often to shake things up but end game consists of dungeons and boss mechanics, which I think are pretty good in this game.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

well they shut down the 42 page thread for being off topic when it wasnt at all...cant have people going and making giant threads that are not for their current design for too long now can we?

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http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbaazdDYyw1qimao1.png

/thischar

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

I know people are probably sick of hearing this, but I think we need to give it some time. With 2.1 having been a backwards patch, I don't think it's fair to judge until 2.2 or even 2.3. But 2.2 will give us a pretty clear idea of what they're envisioning and we'll definitely know where the game is headed by 2.3.

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Just you wait. Patch 2.23 is going to make this game spectacular, and what it should've been at launch!

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Not everyone has 8h+ a day, every day, to spend on this game. That's why older content becomes easier to access for those who are casual players and new content is hard for those hardcore players. New content will make old content obsolete in the long run yes but that's how the game will evolve.

Repeating the same content over and over because it is impossibly hard will push away all the casuals and will cut off 50% of the game's population.

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That's why horizontal progression > vertical progression. It doesn't kill off content the second new content is introduced.

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Originally Posted by jars

welcome to mmo end game?

you get expansions every so often to shake things up but end game consists of dungeons and boss mechanics, which I think are pretty good in this game.

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This is my first MMO, and likely my last.
Not saying the dungeons aren't well-designed they are, and great music/aesthetics.

But they're corridors, the music doesn't even loop, they're completely cut off from the game world, theres enemies in them because they need to pad it out, and not because they're unique enemies that are a joy to fight, then there's a boss with a stratedgy that must be followed to the T, with little experimentation.

Look at speedruns in any other game, they do it to challenge themselves.
In this game people speedrun because they want to see the end of the dungeon faster.

Introducing Super Super Ultra Extreme Hyper Realism Primal difficulty. Please look forward to it.

Another Dark Souls reference but, in DkS you'd find a weapon you loved and formed a bond with it, mastering its moveset and knowing exactly how to use what attack in what scenariors, your weapon become a part of your character.

In this game, gear is a quickie, you move on as soon as you obtain it, you'll likely be well above the level of the Brayflox gear by the time you actually get the set.
Then once 2.2 hits, the months of farming WP just so you could get Myth, will people look back at those fond memories?
Soon to be replaced yet again, and again.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Just you wait. Patch 2.23 is going to make this game spectacular, and what it should've been at launch!

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What makes you so confident in 2.23?

old game was better old game was better old game was better old game was better old game was better

thread will live on some how...

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Originally Posted by Beetle

old game was better old game was better old game was better old game was better old game was better

thread will live on some how...

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People have concerns and SE has no intentions of addresing them from what they've said.

The people 'constantly complaining' probably want the game to succeed and become great, if they didn't they'd just leave and not say how they wanted the game to evolve.

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Originally Posted by Susanoh

Instead of trying to flesh out their original concepts, it seems like they instead put together a team to try to mold this game into what every other game on the market is. Quick, easy leveling, menial quests, handing out gear like candy, every important piece of content becomes instanced and the main world is basically a hub for people to queue up for those instances. Like it or not, it's what we have for now.

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I agree with you but for the most part, all the changes that were made were suggested by the unhappy 1.0 player base via the forums as well as the three polls that SE released for players to tell SE what they wanted in a MMO. The majority wanted a WoW clone. Now that we have it... they regret asking for it.

Its a case of the... be careful what you wish for.

I am going to be completely honest here:

Am I excited for 2.2?

To put it bluntly I am scared of the outcome. Because of the simple fact that every 6 months a much bigger update is put into the game than the 3 month (2.1). If 2.2 doesn't appeal to the masses, this game will surely be in trouble.

2.1 was more of:

1) Catching up
2) Laying down the foundation
3) Adding some new features

2.2 I feel is where the meat and potatoes will come in personally. Which is why I am excited personally for it, but at the same time scared.

I haven't been playing much not because I hate it, but because of other single player games recently that I found myself not playing as often.

2.2 will set the bar on how FFXIV ARR will progress.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

I agree with you but for the most part, all the changes that were made were suggested by the unhappy 1.0 player base via the forums as well as the three polls that SE released for players to tell SE what they wanted in a MMO. The majority wanted a WoW clone. Now that we have it... they regret asking for it.

Its a case of the... be careful what you wish for.

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no offense but i was never reading the question "Should ARR become a WoW Clone?"

All I want for content is more open world party play.

Yoshi P, everyone is tired of the Primal stuff. I think most people enjoyed having summons as avatars you control rather than a God-like monster you have to kill that has broken mechanics. Enough of the Primal (Hard), (EX), (Ultra EX), (Ultra Uber EX One Wing Angel edition). Im tired of it.

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Originally Posted by Arkune

no offense but i was never reading the question "Should ARR become a WoW Clone?"

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I think she's implying that features voted on were remniscent of WoW, rather than them bluntly stating "do you want a WoW clone?".

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Originally Posted by LoLo

All I want for content is more open world party play.

Yoshi P, everyone is tired of the Primal stuff. I think most people enjoyed having summons as avatars you control rather than a God-like monster you have to kill that has broken mechanics. Enough of the Primal (Hard), (EX), (Ultra EX), (Ultra Uber EX One Wing Angel edition). Im tired of it.

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Watch out, you might have this thread shut down for "being off topic" soon lol

People aren't gonna wanna do the same stuff, but from what they said so far...well what are you really expecting? another primal means they can do a hard mode and then later shove and extreme mode down our throat...cause we NEED MOAR! The other thing announced was a dungeon....based on an old dungeon...so nothing much there....i wonder if it will be trash mobs >boss 1 > trash mobs > boss 2 > trash mobs > boss 3 = end. Maybe im just a crazy person, but i have a good feeling its gonna play out sorta like that. How about a Primal fight a circle arena with lots of content dodging and some form of "Nails mechanic" ...if that comes true am i a future reader?

Open world content that isnt FATE wont happen, the devs say people dont like competition (btw we have PVP!) and they are scared of RMT all the time. But hell dont listen to me and my crazy ramblings, there is no way in hell il be right about that stuff.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

That's the point.. for most players to say 'hell no'.

The 6-18 month quests are for prestige gear. The items they give are the absolute best --and should be for ~2 years, but the vast majority of players (like you and I) will likely ignore the commitment/headache required and instead focus on the more accessible linear gear progression for their gear fix. (Coil 31-70, CT floors 15-25, Sastasha Insane Mode, Titan-Super-Ultimate-PinHead-Arena-Edition, etc..)

Without an (almost) impossible goal and proportional reward, the game is a treadmill, and only a treadmill. I don't think I'd ever have the time or dedication to obtain one of those 6-18month ultimate weapons if they were ever added. But it would make my game experience better to think that I could, and I'd be really happy to see someone who had one :)

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Nah that's 1 thing XI did horribly wrong and should be left dead and buried. There was nothing hard about getting a Relic or Mythic weapon, it was just a tedious, merciless grind. Empyreans were a step in the right direction until Void Watch entered the picture.

While I do find Relics are a bit too easy to get in ARR, I'd rather not go back to the old stupidly grindy ways either. Prestiege or not it's a frigging game, not a 2nd job and there are better ways to actually challenge players than simply force us to grind out the same nonsense for months on end for a single item.

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Originally Posted by KogaDrake

I played XI for about 6 years, and it was a great game, and will always to me be the best MMO I have ever played. But, lets be honest if another game came out like XI, I'd stay as far away from it as possible because it wouldn't fit into my life as an adult.

The community was as good as it was because only the subset of MMO players who liked that style of game would actually stick it out for the long run. Most of the players I knew in XI ranged from 16-25, mainly students (HS or college) and those without families or numerous life commitments. Most of these players are now adults, have families, real jobs, and would not have the time to commit to a game like XI again.

a new MMO in todays world tried to focus that same group of people (16-25yr olds with time and money to spend), and guess what, work for it = quit; no progression for killing this boss = bad design; low drop rate = something is broken, please fix it; no new things ever month or two = too slow content and quit.

Point is, the MMO market has changed as the younger gamers dictate the markets, and they do not like the same thing that the same group liked 10yrs ago. most MMO's have investors = need big numbers or f2p; and those who shell out their own money will not risk it for a small subset of gamers.

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But this is a false assessment and why ARR is in the sorry state it is. There's no reason we couldn't have a game like XI was again but with the refinements of ARR - in other words it doesn't have to be a tedious time sink in every regard. Just before Abyssea XI was actually striking a pretty good balance between hardcore and casual play with stuff like Fields of Valor that should have been in the game from the start. If you factor in things like XIV removing the need to skill up, more fast travel etc. I'm confident we could still have a game modeled after XI but with modern influences that smoothen out the overall experience.

I can't wrap my head around why SE didn't try that. Maybe they just did ARR this way on purpose because they felt it was a safe bet to get back the money they'd blown.

EDIT: Crap double-post, shoulda condensed this into my other one. I really wish they'd fix the stupid 1000 character limit.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

As acounter-argument: let me set you a scenario

Garlaige Citadel, Party level 33.

..SNIP..

This was the amount of co-ordination and communication needed to efficiently kill a single mob in a low-mid level exp party. If you did this, you weren't great, you were acceptable.

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Written that way makes very little look complicated. lets look again. XIV has more to do for each person, and most (endgame atleast) depend on your group members doing their job just as much as your XI example.


THF, SATA tank at start, hen stand there and auto attack until time to SC.

PLD, stand behind mob for SATA then provoke every30sec and flash now and then, rest of time stand and auto attack.

off tank (if used, often just a dps with war subjob) provoke at start, stand there and auto attack.

BRD, cast songs, pull mob, run back (do so many time you can run around the insta death holes with eyes closed) recast songs doing a cure here and there while auto attack till next pull.

healer, heals..

other DPS (if used), stands and auto attacks till time till skill chain

BLM, cast spells till time to MB then time a bigger spell correct.


Now each person does very little, very repetitive and much of this training is left to the wind by lv75. no one Skillchain > MB at 75, SATA was used at max once a fight, and most often the thf was only there for treasure hunter (so SATA leave group, reinvite close to death). While it was fun, if you thought it was hard and alot to do.. idk what to tell you as most of the time in combat was doing next to nothing or running the same pulling paths over and over...