Jobs start @50?

as long as the skills from the 'advanced job" is not needed to be individually earned by marks (ugh not a fan of the marks system) and there IS a stat difference between a PLD50 and a GLD 50 along with skills beign exclusive to each, then im fine. I just dont want a 50GLD to be basicly the same aside from some exclusive skills and limits on others...with a new title...that would be a massive letdown

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

as long as the skills from the 'advanced job" is not needed to be individually earned by marks (ugh not a fan of the marks system) and there IS a stat difference between a PLD50 and a GLD 50 along with skills beign exclusive to each, then im fine. I just dont want a 50GLD to be basicly the same aside from some exclusive skills and limits on others...with a new title...that would be a massive letdown

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Your stats will differ when you equip Paladin from Gladiator alone. Skills from other classes will be locked out. Paladin is not its own class. No levels, no ranks, no experience points, nothing but earning skills through quests. That is the info we have so far.

Ok, so physical levels are going to be abolished and the current class ranks will take their place. That means if you have all the classes leveled already to 50, then you'll have nothing to do after changing to a job. People will switch to paladin, play around with the skills for a lil bit, then put the game down.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

For once I agree, I would prefer if they just scrapped the current system and rebuilt with Jobs from the get go instead of trying to shoehorn them in somehow so as not to upset current players. If they just scrapped and rebuilt with Jobs they could still let us keep our equivalent Ranks/Level and transfer them to the new Jobs so it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

Who knows though maybe they have actually come up with something great, but to me it seems like they are trying to go back to a more FFXI setup but trying not to piss off the current player base and I hope that won't be a mistake by doing that and trying to shoehorn the Job system around the class system as opposed to building it from the ground up.

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One problem that I could see with scrapping the current class system and building from scratch is that the current Class system is designed for solo play (especially since you can equip abilities of other jobs). However, making each Class soloable also means balancing abilities/stats/gear, which is not necessarily good for a party setup (ex: the healer was trying to nuke and the PUG was on defense and trying to cure everybody =P). The Jobs system would basically refine the class for party scenarios to make partying more dynamic.

If jobs are refined for partying, they probably won't be good for soloing, which is why they're being built around the class system. Otherwise it would be FFXI all over again, where you pretty much HAD to party. It was great party dynamics because every job was a specialty, but at the same time made soloing a pain (even if u /whm or /nin). We have to remember that part of the game's appeal is that if you can't find a party, or are just trying to squeeze in a quick leve, you can solo relatively painlessly and get decent xp.

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Originally Posted by Serio

If jobs are refined for partying, they probably won't be good for soloing, which is why they're being built around the class system. Otherwise it would be FFXI all over again, where you pretty much HAD to party. It was great party dynamics because every job was a specialty, but at the same time made soloing a pain (even if u /whm or /nin). We have to remember that part of the game's appeal is that if you can't find a party, or are just trying to squeeze in a quick leve, you can solo relatively painlessly and get decent xp.

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It's an eternal struggle, but there's a load of successful protocols to remedy it. They probably don't have the man power right now, but it's not like it's an impossible wall as oppose to 5yrs ago.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

Ok, so physical levels are going to be abolished and the current class ranks will take their place. That means if you have all the classes leveled already to 50, then you'll have nothing to do after changing to a job. People will switch to paladin, play around with the skills for a lil bit, then put the game down.

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this isnt a problem yet
all of what, 10 people have done this so far?

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Originally Posted by Dyne

Ok, so physical levels are going to be abolished and the current class ranks will take their place. That means if you have all the classes leveled already to 50, then you'll have nothing to do after changing to a job. People will switch to paladin, play around with the skills for a lil bit, then put the game down.

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so what does that person do now? nothing. Level cap increase and new classes solve their problem

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Originally Posted by Physic

so what does that person do now? nothing. Level cap increase and new classes solve their problem

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and even then they will again be the first to complete it and thus the first to put down the game for those reasons

those arent the people you EVER market to

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Originally Posted by Dyne

Ok, so physical levels are going to be abolished and the current class ranks will take their place. That means if you have all the classes leveled already to 50, then you'll have nothing to do after changing to a job. People will switch to paladin, play around with the skills for a lil bit, then put the game down.

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Maybe, but I don't really see that happening quite so simply. Firstly, if you have all jobs @50, nothing bores/bothers you. Because, honestly, you would've had to play at or near the release when the game was worse and had less content. Secondly, if you have all classes @50, you're going to be busy getting all the unlockable jobs, all the job abilities, and all the job specific gear from the dungeons. Afterwards, if there isn't anything new, then yeah, they will probably put the game down.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

this isnt a problem yet
all of what, 10 people have done this so far?

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there is a lot of people with full house, or half house (all dow/m or all doh/l)

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Please also keep in mind that there are still many unannounced details regarding the job system and I was only speaking to a specific question that was being asked/was a point of confusion. I suggest waiting for further announcements for more intricate details. :)

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Just one question. Gladiator/Fencer => melee-capable Red Mage. Will it happen this time?

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Originally Posted by Serio

One problem that I could see with scrapping the current class system and building from scratch is that the current Class system is designed for solo play (especially since you can equip abilities of other jobs). However, making each Class soloable also means balancing abilities/stats/gear, which is not necessarily good for a party setup (ex: the healer was trying to nuke and the PUG was on defense and trying to cure everybody =P). The Jobs system would basically refine the class for party scenarios to make partying more dynamic.

If jobs are refined for partying, they probably won't be good for soloing, which is why they're being built around the class system. Otherwise it would be FFXI all over again, where you pretty much HAD to party. It was great party dynamics because every job was a specialty, but at the same time made soloing a pain (even if u /whm or /nin). We have to remember that part of the game's appeal is that if you can't find a party, or are just trying to squeeze in a quick leve, you can solo relatively painlessly and get decent xp.

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I see what you are saying in the solo vs. party situation but honestly if SE made some decent content like for solo players to group up in easy then this wouldn't even be an issue. If they did something like campaign or redid the Leve system then solo would be viable. They could even allow you to call your Companion to fight at your side while solo to fill a needed role like cures or tank.

I hoping SE surprise me and add a AP system to allow us to enchance the skills we acquire from quest for each job, and maybe some uber hard to complete limit break (2hour-esque skill?)quests, aside from collecting all the new skills for each job that would give us something to do without forcing grinding on us.

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Originally Posted by Physic

so what does that person do now? nothing. Level cap increase and new classes solve their problem

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They didn't say anything about level cap increase and new classes, and we probably won't have it till expansion, which maybe be fall or winter. If you have nothing to do for 6 months, may as well put the game down til then.

Or they actually make people grind those jobs up to 50, then it will be something to do.

I think the problem is that people are currently perceiving Jobs to be drastically different than Classes, despite the fact that SE has said multiple times now that they will simply augment current classes. Kind of like a Class+. Becoming a "Job" will not stop you from being a certain class, it will simply allow for specific armor and abilities to be used on top of the class. As such the play style will be very similar to that of playing the respective class without a job attached. The way SE has it planned it would make no sense to start over again from rank 1. Personally I agree with the people that wanted a deeper revamp of the system with Jobs being "advances classes," however I think the current system will still allow for a lot of depth to be added to the armory system without completely undermining it, and SE seem pretty set with their design, so getting upset over it at this point does more harm than good.

Sad that i can't start from level one on monk that it just a dumb title system and we still have to deal with class -.-.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Sad that i can't start from level one on monk that it just a dumb title system and we still have to deal with class -.-.

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Technically you've already leveled the basic class, the job only entails the appearance and some extra abilities. You'd really want to level up fist weapons all over again be my guest. :P

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Please also keep in mind that there are still many unannounced details regarding the job system and I was only speaking to a specific question that was being asked/was a point of confusion. I suggest waiting for further announcements for more intricate details. :)

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Why do I get the feeling that the dev reps are allowed to answer specific questions with gems, but only if we ask the right questions first. Maybe they're I, Robot holograms.

Can we put the rewards from raids in a bread basket?
Does the thm job start with the letter R and end in ed mage??

Please lock this thread bayohne you and the dev team have posted about this numerous times now people need to learn to read.

I have a good one, Peregrine!

Is there a possibility that the job system will be introduced in patch 1.18? :D

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Technically you've already leveled the basic class, the job only entails the appearance and some extra abilities. You'd really want to level up fist weapons all over again be my guest. :P

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I level it 2times and level it up again due to rerolling so yes it not a issue.

1: First Char elvaan 37pug 20lancer 20mrd few level 15 craft
2: Hume 44 pug level 25 ARM 20mrd 15lancer 15conj 15 black smith 10 black smith
3: Elvaan : 19pug 10blacksmith and few other craft "Last reroll"

So ya i think jobs and class should be by itself not together pretty much you can level all the class to 50 and have all the jobs to 50 o.o but w/e i can care less at this point i just want them to fix the dam game.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

They didn't say anything about level cap increase and new classes, and we probably won't have it till expansion, which maybe be fall or winter. If you have nothing to do for 6 months, may as well put the game down til then.

Or they actually make people grind those jobs up to 50, then it will be something to do.

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my point is, the job system is to make unique playstyles for party play, not to add new leveling syncs. Just because a few rare people have leveled all classes doesnt mean they should make normal people regrind the exact same job with slight tweaks.

pld is going to be almost identical to a glad who uses mostly shield skills, sub cures, heavy armor and a few damage skills. why would someone want to have to do the exact same thing for 50 levels, just use 4 new skills. It makes no sense.

Yes it sucks for people who want to level stuff that their is no cap increase or new jobs in 12 months, but that is the only real solution for those people anyhow. But dont worry, cap raise is basically already prepared. they have had the content for a cap increase since this game came out. they have the mobs, they have the leves, they have the behests, they have the gears, so basically they just have to flip a switch. likely it wont come till ps3 release though, a long with other content they are saving to repitch the game.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

I level it 2times and level it up again due to rerolling so yes it not a issue.

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you just like leveling stuff, thats fine, but the whole world should not be built around someone who wants to level a job 2x for like 3 new skills, and some stat adjustments

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Originally Posted by Physic

you just like leveling stuff, thats fine, but the whole world should not be built around someone who wants to level a job 2x for like 3 new skills, and some stat adjustments

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In the world of time sinks, maybe you should.

They're obviously not going to give you content in place of time sinks.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

They could even allow you to call your Companion to fight at your side while solo to fill a needed role like cures or tank.

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I'd like to see the path companion become more useful overall. Of course, there's the issue with you already choosing your companion's class, but I guess that can be worked around. More choices for appearance would be nice too...

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I see what you are saying in the solo vs. party situation but honestly if SE made some decent content like for solo players to group up in easy then this wouldn't even be an issue. If they did something like campaign or redid the Leve system then solo would be viable. They could even allow you to call your Companion to fight at your side while solo to fill a needed role like cures or tank.

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This is somewhat true to the extent that the game would then become FFXI-2. However, the content designed for solo players is the class system itself. Aside from the fact that Campaign would be cool (which let me lvl RDM to 75 w/o being a refresh/haste whore), leves are already soloable, behest allows you to hop right into a group, and a Companion isn't really needed to fill any role because you can tank/cure/DD by yourself on any class.

I say that the class system is designed for solo players because if you take away the overlapping party member bonus, the light/max party buffs, and leve linking (especially under Guardian's Aspect), soloing and partying levels out in reward. (Remember back in the day when none of these existed?) The Jobs system is essentially another party bonus to add to the big book of party bonuses, but yet it's somehow an "issue" that classes are optional.

Because that's what's really happening. They're scrapping the classes and recreating them as jobs. Just like a lot of people wanted. Except that classes are optional. And I really think that doing some quick quest (cause everything in this game is quick) to unlock the jobs and abilities isn't asking too much considering how ridiculously easy this game is if you're always in a party.

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Also we can confirm that we'll be changing the term "ranks" (as in rank 50 Pugilist) to "levels" (as in level 50 Pugilist) along with the removal of the physical level. We'll also be changing skill points to experience points.

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what happens to my EXP from physical level?

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Because that's what's really happening. They're scrapping the classes and recreating them as jobs. Just like a lot of people wanted. Except that classes are optional. And I really think that doing some quick quest (cause everything in this game is quick) to unlock the jobs and abilities isn't asking too much considering how ridiculously easy this game is if you're always in a party.

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they should do quest like this long as hell, like in EQ1 cuz there more to it than just killing 10 mobs.

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Originally Posted by indira

what happens to my EXP from physical level?

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physical level ceases to exist

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Originally Posted by indira

what happens to my EXP from physical level?

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you never really "Earned" that to begin with, since everything you do, no matter how small, even sneezing got you exp

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you never really "Earned" that to begin with, since everything you do, no matter how small, even sneezing got you exp

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lol pretty much. You cant say its hard earned, let alone even say its earned. Its just given to you.

Why even bother with this, just phase out the armory system and use the revamped jobs. In anything worthwhile you're going to use the "advanced" jobs anyway. Use them for soloing? Mobs are really hard in this game that you'd need to swap in different skills from different jobs..

I think I'll be long dead before I see a SE MMO that doesn't have a million confirm windows or convoluted systems.

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Originally Posted by Radaghast

Why even bother with this, just phase out the armory system and use the revamped jobs. In anything worthwhile you're going to use the "advanced" jobs anyway. Use them for soloing? Mobs are really hard in this game that you'd need to swap in different skills from different jobs..

I think I'll be long dead before I see a SE MMO that doesn't have a million confirm windows or convoluted systems.

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Because Job Skill are not Weapon Skills, same concept used in FFXI. Seraph Blade can only be used when you have a sword equipped. If you think about it, in FFXI, Job had the Levels, and Weapons had the Ranks. In this game, Weapons have the Levels, and Jobs will progress through questing for abilities.

FFXI: Emphasis on Job Level
FFXIV: Emphasis on Class(Weapon) Level

Yeah but you don't need to add an extra unnecessary layer to do that. That'd be like being able to use any weaponskill in FFXI but you can't use certain ones if you're playing as an "advanced" paladin.

Just revamp the jobs and restrict what skills they can or can't equip instead of having two layers. This would allow the use of different weapons instead of being restricted to one.

I would prefer to level each separately, but I guess this will have to work.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Jobs won't have levels and as such won't need to be leveled up. Jobs are an advanced form of the class that unlocks them. So for example purposes, a level 50 Gladiator would be a level 50 Paladin. (Example only!)

Also we can confirm that we'll be changing the term "ranks" (as in rank 50 Pugilist) to "levels" (as in level 50 Pugilist) along with the removal of the physical level. We'll also be changing skill points to experience points.

In summation:
Rank > Level
Skill points > Experience points

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i really like that system a lot. Its still a lot of time to level a job from 1-50 (if you play the game and have fun instead of just abandoning the same leves and redo them with max links all over again :) )

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Because Job Skill are not Weapon Skills, same concept used in FFXI. Seraph Blade can only be used when you have a sword equipped. If you think about it, in FFXI, Job had the Levels, and Weapons had the Ranks. In this game, Weapons have the Levels, and Jobs will progress through questing for abilities.

FFXI: Emphasis on Job Level
FFXIV: Emphasis on Class(Weapon) Level

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The only problem is too many important skills got mixed into it for FF14. Their best option might be that choosing a job will unlock those skills, but eventually it comes down to

It's that or axe-ing most of the skills from classes as a necessity.

Stats + skills. They're going to have to detach those from the armoury system to make it work right.

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Originally Posted by Dyne

Ok, so physical levels are going to be abolished and the current class ranks will take their place. That means if you have all the classes leveled already to 50, then you'll have nothing to do after changing to a job. People will switch to paladin, play around with the skills for a lil bit, then put the game down.

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Hi Dyne,

I posted this in an earlier thread, regarding the SE Interview in Dengeki Magazine. But this might help some of your concerns...

I understand both sides of the argument about the "Same Rank Class = Instant Same Rank Job." I think initially, my gut reaction was, "Aw... isn't that just too 'easy' then?" :( But then I thought about it some more, and thought about Matsui's official post about Job Quests to unlock the job and exclusive skills.

We don't know what the final implementation is like, so this is all speculation, but as physic and Wind have pointed out:

• Rank 50 Gladiator = Rank 50 Paladin is Not A Bad Thing.
  • Job Quest and Skill Quests: Matsui has said that we're getting Quests to unlock the Job and Skills. If this turns out to be *multiple*, challenging, interesting Quests to (A) Unlock the Job; and then (B) to Unlock Each New Skill, that's far more engaging and interesting than just getting "Paladin Rank 1" and grinding.
  • Job Specific Equipment (JSE) Quests: We've seen the Concept Art for JSE Armor for Black Mage and Dark Knight, and Yoshida-san has mentioned it's coming. So this is another set of more meaningful content (instead of just grinding 1 - 50).
  • Same Grind AGAIN (Leves, Efts, Raptors) To Be Able To Use New Job Fully? No Thanks.
    Let's say they gave us Paladin Rank 1 after you reached Gladiator Rank 50. Do you really want to grind the same Nanawa Mines, Efts, Raptors, Guildleves for another 50 (FIFTY) Ranks just to be able to fully utilize Paladin skills? (and then repeat that over every other Class in the game?) As much of a Final Fantasy fan as I am, I'd probably say "No."

• Class Rank = Job Rank Means You're Ready for Real Raid Dungeons & New Content Now. :)
  As Wind said, grinding Rank 1 to 50 *again* on, say, Paladin, is *not* real "content." I would hope most of us would want to *use* the (hopefully) cool, new Paladin Skills / Weaponskills, *for* stuff like the Rank 30 and Rank 50 Raid Dungeons and New NMs and New Frontier Quest Hubs.
  
  So, having it so that we're the same Rank at our new Job as the Class that unlocked it means we're basically "Ready!" to jump into the exciting, meaningful real New Content as soon as it gets delivered.
  
  If it was the other way, then, say a new Patch gets released. "Oh, we have New Raid Dungeons and New NMs and Grand Company Challenges... but they're balanced for Paladin, Monk, White Mage, etc. OK, let's spend ~4 - 12 WEEKS grinding Paladin from Rank 1 to 50 and THEN we can start to have fun with those new Dungeons and Challenges." That'd be frustrating, no?

• 1 Job for 1 Class. More To Come / More To Explore.
  For those that are worried about 1:1 unlock, it does seem a bit limiting, but there's no reason they couldn't add more Jobs per Class later. It's better to start small and focused, instead of having too many Jobs and not have them all balanced properly (or need a lot more time before unleashing them in a Patch for us).
  
  Also, it encourages more "Class Exploration." I think one of the biggest question marks is which Class unlocks White Mage vs. Black Mage? That's a great question.
  
  As an example, let's say, Conjurer unlocks White Mage, and Thaumaturge unlocks Black Mage.
  
  At first, you might think, "Aw darn it! I'm a R50 Conjurer already and I want to cast Elemental Spells / be a Nuker!" Well, it's not a bad thing to now *explore* playing Thaumaturge to unlock the Black Mage Class. No one has said that you have to play THM to Rank 50 to unlock the Job Quest. It could be Rank 20 or 30 (which is really easy to get to with the fast SP these days). You get THM to R20 or 30, unlock the Black Mage Quest and start working your way through that (hopefully interesting set of Challenges / Quests).

• Real Content: Raid Dungeons, Grand Companies, Frontier Quest Hubs
  The real "content" that's already been confirmed for this next patch 1.18 should be the R30 and R50 Raid Dungeons, which will hopefully be tied into the Grand Companies and a developing Rank System (SE has hinted that you can earn better equipment and items via the Grand Companies, so hopefully it's a long-term goal-oriented system, like a Reputation / Points System, or working towards stuff like Relic Weapons / Armor).
  
  In addition, we're getting the Frontier Quest Hubs, which should also give us more interesting things to do than repeat the same Guildleves we've been doing the past 9 months.
  
  This stuff should be the real content (along with more NMs (which they said are on the way), and more Dungeons, etc.). It shouldn't be grinding a Job from 1 - 50.

Of course all this could be moot after we find out the full details, but let's try and stay positive. ;)

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Originally Posted by Physic

you just like leveling stuff, thats fine, but the whole world should not be built around someone who wants to level a job 2x for like 3 new skills, and some stat adjustments

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Pug is not a monk that the only thing i hate about it that why i want a Monk that you start from level 1. But at the end i can care less as long as monk somewhat feel like FF11/FF7 type monk.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Pug is not a monk that the only thing i hate about it that why i want a Monk that you start from level 1. But at the end i can care less as long as monk somewhat feel like FF11/FF7 type monk.

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its not going to be like ffxi though, its going to be pug with a few new skills, it might not even be monk, might be theif. dont get your hopes up.

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Originally Posted by Physic

its not going to be like ffxi though, its going to be pug with a few new skills, it might not even be monk, might be theif. dont get your hopes up.

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Then what would a monk be? a class by itself turning into something else? what make sense is Pug=Monk if it turn into a THF then i guess i wait to monk or samurai come out i just hope samurai does not become overpower asshole like they did in ffxi -.- i like it when no one really was a samurai and was only good for SC.