White Mage is Poorly designed compared to Scholar

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

I am not bitter, i am fine/happy actually that our pet no longer hinders our heal, they complement not only me but also my WHM partner in healing when we needed it. Please check in which statement did i classify SoS as infinite mp and then we can take it from there. You look like you are the bitter one, actually you should be, after all you are no longer on the top of the healing chart. *for those who did not get the sarcasm*

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Yeah, applying one SCH's opinion to you. That sounds familiar.. Man, it's almost as if someone would make a joke about it. Surely not though, it'd probably go over their head.

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Originally Posted by Wilbow

- Heal I now has a 20% chance to proc Improved Cure, which either grants the user 50% increased healing on the next Cure II or Cure III. Lasts 15 seconds.

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In order to get more overhealing ? xD

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Originally Posted by Wilbow

Patch Notes, 2.2:?

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Why blatantly make spell speed superior to DET and CRIT? WHM doesn't need to scale more with a certain stat, all stats need to be equally viable choices. You are essentially screwing over people who geared for things other than spell speed.

We also need to undo some of that medica2 nerf....

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Originally Posted by Lucipurr

I'm not a great Scholar but I usually find myself outhealing a better geared and skilled WHM by quite a margin, because of my unlimited mp. (people keep parsing my hps for some reason, so thats how I know). Anyone else notice the large HPS difference too? Maybe parsers are inaccurate.

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Parsers also factor in overhealing. I have tested this before, and as far as I know, you cannot adjust it. If both parties play well, SCH will probably always top parsers due to fairy, SCH having a very relaxed mana pool, and WHM being forced to stress over their low-mana returns. If shields were counted in parsers (which they are not), then that would only skyrocket SCH past their dominance on the parsers. SCH naturally do more overhealing and contribution in lax situations due to mechanics mentioned earlier. Parsers are irrelevant for healers. I can keep 100% uptime on medica 2, and regen on like 3-4 people without going oom on turns 1-4 and any hardmode primal and get like 70% of the groups healing done (putting SCH probably around the 15-20% range). If it did not factor in overhealing, and had a separate calculator for purely overhealing, similar to WoW's meters, it would be valuable and worth looking at. But right now, it is not. :( The best way to find out how much you are contributing is just to guestimate incoming damage, and how much of it you are actually healing.

WHMs in full ilvl90 are capable of solohealing all HM primals without ballad, as well as garuda EX (I havent done titan/Ifrit EX yet to see).

I have been asking for scaling SoS, a low-potency/non GCD/10-30s cd/instant heal to smooth healing out, larger contributions from secondary stats, and real syngery throughout the class since weeks 1-2 of release, but when I came on the forums about some of this stuff, particularly scaling SoS and an expanded kit, everyone called me a fool, telling me that all of these things are a complete waste of time due to WHMs not needing any of these things, even if they were simply a quality of life adjustment.

WHM needs to stop relying on RNG freecures, non-synergistic PIE, and crutch ballading to sustain their mana pools on hard fights, or when they are learning new encounters. There are so many things I wished SE would do to make this class better. I always preferred the less mobile, burst healers in MMO's. I prefer MT healing over raid-healing. But right now, WHMs kit can be trivalized into three things: Medica 1/2, Cure 1/2, and Regen. I could heal turns 1&2, ultima, and all HM primals with solely those spells and absolutely nothing else. Hell, I can heal most of those things with just Cure 1&2. That, in my opinion, is not a very complete class. Most of our kit besides these abilities are either too weak, have too long of CDs, are very situational, or are just meh in general. Don't get me wrong, I utilize every single tool given to me, including every one of my nukes, which I use on most bosses including Twintania, but WHM is so lackluster right now, because its power is largely focused into about as many spells/abilities as I have on one hand, and we are in less control of our own mana pools than bards are, which is completely stupid.

WHM does not need a buff. WHM's are plenty powerful and viable as is. WHM/SCH is so much better than SCH/SCH it's ridiculous. WHM's have no reason to fear for their raid spots at all. In fact, we are still a more priority spot than SCH's are for most stuff due to Holy and having the upper hand in AOE healing. I also think WHM's make a more independent healer than SCH's do, but thats my opinion.
What does WHM need? WHM needs to spread its power out to its other abilities, which means to lose power in some areas (particularly Regen, Divine Seal, and AOE healing), and have it become spread out in the form of extra tools, quality of life adjustments, and proper class synergy.

I always knew things would turn out in our current situation of SCH becoming more dominant over WHM. The big reason comes from proper scaling and design. SCH has a real secondary stat to scale off of, its mana regen scales, adlo scales extremely well, and pet fixes are an obvious priority for SE as an entire class, half of the healing roles, and thousands of people depend on it to function properly. As a result, SCH starts off a little weaker, but will become vastly superior. Imagine SCH vs. WHM in around ilvl120 gear, by then if nothings changed (which things most likely will be), I could see WHM being pretty obsolete if things continued down on this road. (WHM will probably get some kind of change soon enough).

I personally find SCH to be a pretty ideal healer. It has a unique playstyle, clutch heals, defining features, good scaling, plenty of tools and options, incorporates some decisionmaking, etc. WHM doesn't really have any of that.

/rant

I will never understand why people bad mouth the class they play. If another class is better in your mind, then play that one. WHITE MAGE FOREVER!

Currently SCH have shields. Maybe should give WHM some spells that provide damage mitigation. Maybe WHM should instead have some skills like overcure and procure, Divine Seal that instead provide damage mitigation buffs up to 3 stacks with a 15 secs cooldown.

Instead of Divine Seal increasing healing, maybe it could give 1 stack per healing within skill period.

As for cure 3, maybe over cure should give a stack of damage mitigation too.

For cure 2, procure should give 2 stacks of damage mitigation when pop.

Make Stoneskin also provide a stack of mitigation and increase mitigation buff time to 30 secs and an instant cast.

Medica 2 can a stack of damage mitigation buff instead of regen.

Then give WHM a passive ability that gives a percentage of mp back every time a party mate with the mitigation buff is hit. That would make it more interesting.

Shroud can stay as it is :)

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Originally Posted by gadenp

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I'm all for buffing WHM skills and mana regen but I draw the line at giving them shields. If you start giving WHMs shields then one of two things must happen. The shield must suck and not be worth the time to cast or you nerf WHMs raw healing abilities but that would turn them into SCHs. WHMs CANNOT have both awesome healing abilities and awesome shields.

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

WHM is being nerf for a reason, ppl are spamming Medica II (OP) too casually and then when you pull aggro, you blame the tank for being a noob. When you OOM, you blame SE for giving you broken SoS. You are suppose to use Medica II in-conjunction with Medica. You are suppose to not treat SoS as only a decrease aggro tool, they also regen your mana, so if your SoS is off CD, use it and heal considerately without spamming and you won't need to save it for when you pull aggro from the tank while casting medica II when clearly medica is enough.

*rage mode:off* now i felt better :P

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You seem to have this connotation that all WHMs act this way... What you described is a BAD WHM, not a normal one. Any WHM who only uses SoS to reduce enmity is bad, and spamming medica 2 is bad. I NEVER use SoS to only reduce my enmity, because i know how to keep the hate low... you have no idea what you are talking about. Just stop.

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

With the way you guys spam Medica II, no amount of mana would be suffice~

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You keep saying this over and over, that WHMs "spam" Medica 2, I nor any other WHM i have ever met has spammed Medica 2. If you know how to play WHM correctly you would only use Medica 2 on massive damage to the whole group, like Titan's stomps. (Or now precast it to help mitigate a bit of damage) The amount of MP it uses is extremely high, you would have to be an idiot to "spam" it. Not to mention the enmity it dishes out.

lol I love SCH v WHMS, really highlights the dim lighted.

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Originally Posted by gadenp

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Please tell me that you are being sarcastic....

The only thing that WHMs should not get are SCH shields O.o

What I hate when playing WHM is the total randomness of freecure and overcure.
Most of the time, I don't need them when they pop and they don't stay up long enough to be of any real use.
Now if they could stay up until needed and even be stacked up to 2 or 3 ...

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Originally Posted by SulwynCaliope

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I am not disagreeing with you here. But ummm.... you do know Scholars have been crying from day one about getting stronger AOE heals - like white mage has... if that happens, then why can't WHM get stronger shields??

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Originally Posted by XNihili

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There is nothing I hate about playing white mage. We are powerful healers, and when played right - you wont go out of mana all the time or get hate all the time.

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Originally Posted by BrodyAlgana

I am not disagreeing with you here. But ummm.... you do know Scholars have been crying from day one about getting stronger AOE heals - like white mage has... if that happens, then why can't WHM get stronger shields??

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I've been surfing these forums for a while now and haven't seen any SCHs asking for stronger AoE heals but if had seen someone asking for that, I'd tell them no. I do not want a stronger AoE heal on my SCH. I like knowing that I'll always need a WHM by my side to complete content efficiently. If SE gave SCHs a stronger AoE heal and WHMs strong shields, I'd quit the game.

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Originally Posted by BrodyAlgana

I am not disagreeing with you here. But ummm.... you do know Scholars have been crying from day one about getting stronger AOE heals - like white mage has... if that happens, then why can't WHM get stronger shields??

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Good SCH have never complained about their AOE Heals, Bad ones have. I'll take Succor / Rouse + WD any day over medica / medica 2.

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Originally Posted by Euphe

I wonder what a bonus attribute of MND+20/Piety+10 would do for WHM? Maybe even a split of MND+15/Piety+15? Anyone try this yet?

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I run 15 mind 15 piety MP regen is based on PIE, usually I have no MP issues. Think of WHM as an everquest 1 cleric. Almost the exact same strengths and weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by Jarlax

I run 15 mind 15 piety MP regen is based on PIE, usually I have no MP issues. Think of WHM as an everquest 1 cleric. Almost the exact same strengths and weaknesses.

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15 mind is too much to give up.

If you are having no mana concerns. Why would 15 piety change that?
Mp regen is based of max mana . You regen 2% of your max mp in combat every 3 seconds.

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Originally Posted by XNihili

What I hate when playing WHM is the total randomness of freecure and overcure.
Most of the time, I don't need them when they pop and they don't stay up long enough to be of any real use.
Now if they could stay up until needed and even be stacked up to 2 or 3 ...

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Yeah, this.

What I see about White Mage and Scholars:

1. White Mage is for burst heals with threat of enmity. Evident with Cure II, Benediction, and Shroud of Saints
2. Scholar is for sustained heals. Evident with low heal potency, multiple instances of heals and sustainable flow of MP

White Mage and Black Mage are pretty much the same: they excel at what they do, but are extremely boring. White Mages are focused too much on burst heals that to keep up MP I don't do much else, and when I DO need to burst heal, MP goes down the drain. Scholars have low potency on Succor/Adloquium, but keep in mind the presence of fairy, which takes half of the potency and also half the MP cost, couple this with Aetherflow and Scholars have plenty of things to do with the "excess" MP when fight is not big. Yes, White Mage has Holy, but it pretty much costs about 12% of your MP

While I agree with the role of burst and sustain heals, I find that White Mage's skills are... lackluster.

Presence of Mind really needs some work. 3 minutes cooldown for 10s duration? I don't use it much, because with THAT cooldown, it's like Benediction: if you use it at the wrong time, you're screwed when you need it. Maybe increase the duration or lower the cooldown or change it to some kind of MP management tool, maybe have it reduce MP cost by 10 % while it's active, or change it to a defensive tool such as increased defense with it active.

We need some kind of synergy. Right now, critical heals are nice but nothing to look forward to. Adloquium criticals will always benefit the recipients: you will always receive the full benefits of the shield. Critical heals on White Mages are usually wasted by a large margin because it will usually go over the max HP limit, and when the party only has White Mage, you'll be healing even when the tank still has about 70% HP

Freecure and Overcure are not that good. Free Cure II is welcome, but since it relies on luck, it's not something I really look forward to. Cure III is bad in general, and the new Overcure makes me use it sometimes when I have enough MP to spend like water, but Cure III and Overcure really needs a complete overhaul. The situational part of Cure III is so over the top, I never used it before the new Overcure. 500 MP is just too much to spend at once with a chance of somebody not getting the cure, and getting Overcure requires you to gamble and burn your MP with Cure II.

I do think that Cure III actually needs to go altogether. I already have Medica/II, I don't need such an overly situational spell such as Cure III. I'm not saying that it doesn't have its uses, it does, but it simply is not something I look forward to like the leap of Cure to Cure II, and I cannot put it in normal rotation due to the hefty cost and the extremely small coverage area. I think the radius is less than Sacred Soil.

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Presence of Mind really needs some work. 3 minutes cooldown for 10s duration

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its 5 minutes cooldown and 10 second duration.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

its 5 minutes cooldown and 10 second duration.

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Typo on my part, sorry. But anyway, Presence of Mind is too situational and have too long a cooldown, I find myself rarely remembering it's there. I use it only to heal tank during Caduceus when "no slime" policy is in effect

I only use it for bursts of dps with holy/stone II. I'm kind of nervous about using it as a panic button due to the risk of the first cast as it activates occasionally getting interrupted. Whilst I'm actually beginning to like Cure III the more I use it, I totally agree that PoM could do with some attention.

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

Yeah, this.

What I see about White Mage and Scholars:

1. White Mage is for burst heals with threat of enmity. Evident with Cure II, Benediction, and Shroud of Saints
2. Scholar is for sustained heals. Evident with low heal potency, multiple instances of heals and sustainable flow of MP

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In single target healing whm can't touch sch burst healing. A sch microing pet is almost always healing close to the potency of a whm cure 2. The only area where whm excel is burst aoe healing.

What low heal potency? cure and physick are the same, then add embrace.

whm cure 2 in ilvl 90 is roughly 1700 with a det build.
sch physick is roughly 1000 plus fairy at 650 for half the mana and half the threat with a crit build. Fairy heal is slightly longer, but then factor adlo. with the shield the potency is equal to cure 2 on its own. I won't bring up lustrate.

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Originally Posted by Eriane

In single target healing whm can't touch sch burst healing. A sch microing pet is almost always healing close to the potency of a whm cure 2. The only area where whm excel is burst aoe healing.

What low heal potency? cure and physick are the same, then add embrace.

whm cure 2 in ilvl 90 is roughly 1700 with a det build.
sch physick is roughly 1000 plus fairy at 650 for half the mana and half the threat with a crit build. Fairy heal is slightly longer, but then factor adlo. with the shield the potency is equal to cure 2 on its own. I won't bring up lustrate.

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With Adloquium, the potency is 300. so unless it crits, it's still equivalent to a 600 potency, which is 50 less than cure II.
Dont forget to factor in Divine Seal, since we're talking about burst healing. Cure II goes for about ~1600 for my build. DS goes to about 2100. With Presence of Mind, if you ever use it, my cure casting time will go from 1.93 to ~1.60. factor in regen since as far as I've been able to tell, will be on the tank a majority of the time. 3255 with DS, 2555 w/o DS. I'm in iLVL 83. so the numbers should go up a bit with iLVL 90.

So dont discount WHM burst just yet.

I still believe that WHM is very lackluster in regards to synergy, with the 15% chance to trigger a free Cure II, and Cure II's 15% chance to trigger Freecure. I'm not a fan of relying on RNG to gain benefits to my class for the core abilities. one of which (freecure) is rarely used, since the window is 10 seconds (if i remember correctly). If they bumped up the duration to 30 seconds, or permament; removed upon changing areas, i believe it would be far more beneficial, but that's just food for thought. Just throwing out something.

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Originally Posted by Aeser

Dont forget to factor in Divine Seal

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Sch have cooldowns as well. They also affect allied healer too. Rouse, Fey illumination, Fey covenant and possibly Fey glow. Don't forget about lustrate too , it has a small cooldown of 3 per minute.

You are actually factoring in Presence of mind? Might as well factor in benediction while your at it. They have the same cooldown...

You are really undervaluing adloquium. The shield portion never overheals unlike your 3k cure2 crit. Regen overheals quite a bit too due to how it ticks every 3 seconds and can't be controlled or timed.

i'm not forgetting anything. it was said whm cant touch sch. WHM can do pretty damn good burst healing as well. I use DS all the time, and PoM, even though it's simply just bad is still there.

I'm just talking about burst healing. I didnt include benediction since the previous person said they wouldnt include lustrate.

I'm not undervaluing anything at all. just stating the healing potential. i never included over healing since with burst healing your trying to get your tank up as fast as possible. not topping them off.

I'm also fully aware whm's are more for AoE healing, not single target/ tank healing.

i was just stating what i've observed, and made a counter point to previous poster.

Well, let's not just focus on PvE healing.
Honestly I don't think there's much to debate in that aspect, because that's the very fundamental function of both healer classes.
If it were to be lopsided to SCH, then no raid group would even want WHM, which is not the case right now.

Recently did PvP with WHM and SCH:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...der-PvE-choice.

In PvP, WHM is totally eclipsed by SCH:
- Better mobility (more instacasts)
- Healbot+distraction (pet with hp pool)
- Much more and better utilities (enhanced virus + EfaE, blind, Miasma II, Sacred Soil + Shadow Flare)
- Better style of healing:
-- Lustrate >>> Benediction
-- Strength of WHM (AoE Heal) becomes moot in PvP: AoE heal very situational for PvP due to scattered teammates and etc.
-- Miasma II = anti-healing, which makes the team with WHM much harder to heal, handicapped, because for each target that insta-cast Miasma affected, WHM need to pull-off two cast-time spells: Esuna + Heal. FOR. EACH. AFFECTED. TARGET.

That's for PvP. It makes me feel bad for my teammate if I choose to be WHM while we fight team with SCH.

As for PvE, well, since this thread already speak much about that, I'll save the recap, it's listed in my thread anyway.
But just to voice-out my major gripe:
- WHM once dead, no good way to regain MP without help from bard. SCH can hold on its own.
- Too long cooldowns for Benediction and Presence of Mind.
- WHM heal-procs totally unreliable, but SCH can spec to improve chance...plus extra shield with that...
- WHM lacking many good utilities that SCH has.

So please, stop denying WHM is poorly designed compared to SCH, and don't just look at the PvE Healing, it's simply too fundamental to be lopsided.
Again, not calling for SCH nerf, but WHM really needs some love.
Regardless, as long as WHM not screwed to the ground, I'll stick with it :)

With shroud I can easily keep my mana up, plus bards keep me up too. I out heal most sch, and I dont have all that other stuff but im perfectly fine. To say poorly, is abit steep.

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Originally Posted by Aeser

i'm not forgetting anything. it was said whm cant touch sch. WHM can do pretty damn good burst healing as well. I use DS all the time, and PoM, even though it's simply just bad is still there.

I'm just talking about burst healing. I didnt include benediction since the previous person said they wouldnt include lustrate.

I'm not undervaluing anything at all. just stating the healing potential. i never included over healing since with burst healing your trying to get your tank up as fast as possible. not topping them off.

I'm also fully aware whm's are more for AoE healing, not single target/ tank healing.

i was just stating what i've observed, and made a counter point to previous poster.

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When I say burst I mean roughly 2.5-3 sec before the tank gets hit again, and you have to consider lustrate. Bene isn't reliable with a 5 min cd but lustrate is potentially 3 times a min.

Whm burst heal: DS Cure 2
Sch burst heal: Fey illumination, adlo, rouse, embrace, and lustrate. The adlo and embrace can be cast together and lustrate is off the gcd.
Your cure 2 crits, great, if adlo crits the shield is doubled.

There is no comparison, even moreso if you consider that with any healing debuff will wreck a whm's heals but sch lustrate isn't affected.

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Originally Posted by Aeser

With Adloquium, the potency is 300. so unless it crits, it's still equivalent to a 600 potency, which is 50 less than cure II.
Dont forget to factor in Divine Seal, since we're talking about burst healing. Cure II goes for about ~1600 for my build. DS goes to about 2100. With Presence of Mind, if you ever use it, my cure casting time will go from 1.93 to ~1.60. factor in regen since as far as I've been able to tell, will be on the tank a majority of the time. 3255 with DS, 2555 w/o DS. I'm in iLVL 83. so the numbers should go up a bit with iLVL 90.

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My whm is ilvl 90 with a det build. My cure is around 1100 and my cure 2 is 1700-1800.
My raid sch is ilvl 82, crit build (what else). Physick is around 1k and embrace is 650. When his adlo crits I sit back and take a break.

Why are we talking about pom? its 5 min cd.

If you want to factor in ds you have to consider fey and rouse. also keep in mind the sch have better dmg mitigation and preshielding. with less threat and better mana management. Go ahead and spam cure 2 for a bit and see how your mana is doing crumpled in a dry heap on the floor while your sch buddy is wishing he could give you some of his. This has happened to me a few times in dumb situations, like a tank without cd's tanking two dreadnaughts that ate spiders in the last phase of turn 4. I think I nearly went out of mana with bard song, sch was at half. I get that you aren't supposed to heal stupid, but a sch borderline can.

I was talking with two raiding sch from my fc yesterday and it was funny to listen to them talk about how whm regen should be off the gcd, or stoneskin improved or something. Kinda makes me giggle. Personally I wouldn't mind medica 2 being changed to just a hot. Remove the burst heal and lower the mana cost to compensate. When I need to raid heal I'm using medica or cure 3 anyway. Give us the option of having a baby heal in the background.

But don't misunderstand, I'm not saying whm is terrible or sch should be nerfed. But a few qol changes would really help. Heck, i'll even take bene actually being instant and not having the tank die as the heal goes off and the cd wasted.

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Originally Posted by Eriane

When I say burst I mean roughly 2.5-3 sec before the tank gets hit again, and you have to consider lustrate. Bene isn't reliable with a 5 min cd but lustrate is potentially 3 times a min.

Whm burst heal: DS Cure 2
Sch burst heal: Fey illumination, adlo, rouse, embrace, and lustrate. The adlo and embrace can be cast together and lustrate is off the gcd.
Your cure 2 crits, great, if adlo crits the shield is doubled.

There is no comparison, even moreso if you consider that with any healing debuff will wreck a whm's heals but sch lustrate isn't affected.



My whm is ilvl 90 with a det build. My cure is around 1100 and my cure 2 is 1700-1800.
My raid sch is ilvl 82, crit build (what else). Physick is around 1k and embrace is 650. When his adlo crits I sit back and take a break.

Why are we talking about pom? its 5 min cd.

If you want to factor in ds you have to consider fey and rouse. also keep in mind the sch have better dmg mitigation and preshielding. with less threat and better mana management. Go ahead and spam cure 2 for a bit and see how your mana is doing crumpled in a dry heap on the floor while your sch buddy is wishing he could give you some of his. This has happened to me a few times in dumb situations, like a tank without cd's tanking two dreadnaughts that ate spiders in the last phase of turn 4. I think I nearly went out of mana with bard song, sch was at half. I get that you aren't supposed to heal stupid, but a sch borderline can.

I was talking with two raiding sch from my fc yesterday and it was funny to listen to them talk about how whm regen should be off the gcd, or stoneskin improved or something. Kinda makes me giggle. Personally I wouldn't mind medica 2 being changed to just a hot. Remove the burst heal and lower the mana cost to compensate. When I need to raid heal I'm using medica or cure 3 anyway. Give us the option of having a baby heal in the background.

But don't misunderstand, I'm not saying whm is terrible or sch should be nerfed. But a few qol changes would really help. Heck, i'll even take bene actually being instant and not having the tank die as the heal goes off and the cd wasted.

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I relent then. It seems like a lot to setup for your burst healing though. hit 4 abilities. with Fey illumination on a 2 min CD. If you can, could you show some numbers? I'd like to compare in a 5 second window how much healing can be done. Without proof (not being cynical, i just like to compare numbers) i only see SCH having a huge advantage with Lustrate. (i am a bit jealous over that ability and it's utility)
"Your cure 2 crits, great, if adlo crits the shield is doubled." Why are we talking about unreliable RNG?


If Benediction actually was instant, then a lot of BS deaths would have been avoided.

I use PoM because it's there. It's an incredibly bad/lackluster ability, but it's still there, so not using it would be a waste.


I like the idea of Medica II being just an AoE regen, as that's what i ever use it for anyway.

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With shroud I can easily keep my mana up, plus bards keep me up too. I out heal most sch, and I dont have all that other stuff but im perfectly fine. To say poorly, is abit steep.

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Sch receive i would say 1.5 - 2.5 x the mana to work with in a fight compared to whm. Due to aetherflow scaling with mana, being a 1min cooldown compared to SS 2min cooldown. Sch also having access to free healing from fairy and lustrate.

A sch can simply heal more, dps more, prebuff more,raise more. A whm will be holding back to some extent.

I play both SCH and WHM. I say WHM is better overall. However, that is strictly because it fits how I like to play better. I have no trouble burst healing tanks, AND I can heal the whole group by a lot. But I have some fun with SCH too.

I just wish people would stop badmouthing one over the other before square completely screws up BOTH. Just pick one and play it and have fun with the GAME....

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Originally Posted by Aeser

I relent then. It seems like a lot to setup for your burst healing though. hit 4 abilities. with Fey illumination on a 2 min CD. If you can, could you show some numbers? I'd like to compare in a 5 second window how much healing can be done. Without proof (not being cynical, i just like to compare numbers) i only see SCH having a huge advantage with Lustrate. (i am a bit jealous over that ability and it's utility)
"Your cure 2 crits, great, if adlo crits the shield is doubled." Why are we talking about unreliable RNG?


If Benediction actually was instant, then a lot of BS deaths would have been avoided.

I use PoM because it's there. It's an incredibly bad/lackluster ability, but it's still there, so not using it would be a waste.


I like the idea of Medica II being just an AoE regen, as that's what i ever use it for anyway.

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It really is lustrate that just gives sch that edge in burst. I can do some testing later with healing buffs, ds and fey etc. I will say that fey illumination being a party buff does lend for some interesting synergies between whm and sch.

But like I mentioned earlier, on my whm my cure 2 does on average 1740-1780, 1800 on a really good day.
With less gear the sch does physick and embrace for roughly 1650-1700 for half the mana. For the record I have about 40-50 more mind than this sch and more det.

Then factor in aldo (which is close to a cure 2 on its own with the shield), used in a rotation right after boss attacks its very effective, not just for pre-shielding.

Just a fun thing, yesterday I was playing around with fey and rouse and the stupid fairy was healing for 1k. It kinda made me sad. Non-crit.

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Originally Posted by BrodyAlgana

I play both SCH and WHM. I say WHM is better overall. However, that is strictly because it fits how I like to play better. I have no trouble burst healing tanks, AND I can heal the whole group by a lot. But I have some fun with SCH too.

I just wish people would stop badmouthing one over the other before square completely screws up BOTH. Just pick one and play it and have fun with the GAME....

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I love the whm, its fun. But to say its better because of how you like to play? Which way is that?

Pushing less buttons? That I can understand, constantly having to micro a pet's casts and placement is fun but not for everyone.

I don't think anyone is saying that whm can't burst heal tanks, simply that sch do it better. And then when you actually get to endgame and are dealing with healing debuffs... well. sigh.

Speaking of poorly designed. Why don't whm have a better tool than stoneskin for dealing with infirmity?

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Originally Posted by Eriane

I love the whm, its fun. But to say its better because of how you like to play? Which way is that?

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Can't speak directly for Brody, but I prefer whm simply because it fits me, I've been full time healing in MMOs going back some 15 years. The whole mitigation healing thing is comparatively recent and I'm just not as comfortable or natural with shields as I am with good old fashioned big heals and HoTs.

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Originally Posted by Eriane

Speaking of poorly designed. Why don't whm have a better tool than stoneskin for dealing with infirmity?

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The same reason sch don't have a better tool than succor/rouse/wd for dealing with T5 fireballs.

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The same reason sch don't have a better tool than succor/rouse/wd for dealing with T5 fireballs.

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Lustrate the conflagee and sacred soil(if you are double sch) to reduce incoming damage.

I think pre succor, soil , rouse,embrace, whispering dawn, lustrate is pretty good for dealing with fireball/conflag?

Rouse -dawn ticks harder then divine medica 2.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Lustrate the conflagee and sacred soil(if you are double sch) to reduce incoming damage.

I think pre succor, soil , rouse,embrace, whispering dawn, lustrate is pretty good for dealing with fireball/conflag?

Rouse -dawn ticks harder then divine medica 2.

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It ticks for about the amount the old medica 2 used to tick for, and for longer.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

The same reason sch don't have a better tool than succor/rouse/wd for dealing with T5 fireballs.

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lol? Because sch/sch wipe on twin because of fireballs...?

Succor/rouse/WD > old medica 2. Which was just fine for healing fireballs.

But like I said I can understand playing the class you are more comfortable with. In that regard obviously the performance with the class that you like will be higher. I also like doing things myself as whm but after playing around on a sch, when I'm on the whm i feel so limited. The toolkit just needs a little work.

I've been thinking about leveling up acn to try out sch healing as opposed to whm. I'm just little reluctant due to pet managing. I have felt overwhelmed with healing at times (like DPS taking unnecessary damage during Cads fight/Titan HM) and it just seems like managing a pet and maximizing with acn damage/debuff spells is not going to be any less overwhelming in some instances. I like the idea, and it sounds fun, I just don't know if I would be good at it lol

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I've been thinking about leveling up acn to try out sch healing as opposed to whm. I'm just little reluctant due to pet managing. I have felt overwhelmed with healing at times (like DPS taking unnecessary damage during Cads fight/Titan HM) and it just seems like managing a pet and maximizing with acn damage/debuff spells is not going to be any less overwhelming in some instances. I like the idea, and it sounds fun, I just don't know if I would be good at it lol

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I recommend a pet mouseover macro if you are on pc, if on ps3 just assign embrace to a comfortable button. On a whm when casting a heal you just sit while its casting anyway, use that time to also heal with the fairy or even pick a different target for the fairy to heal while you are casting.

Those times where you feel overwhelmed? In my opinion as a whm its very frustrating because I have to use a gcd for everything, even regen. Once you get comfortable with just knowing your toolkit you find you have options. If you have a dps who is particularly keen on getting hit for example, you may decide to throw an adlo on them for the shield. Lustrate is an amazing spell for saving the day. You might surprise yourself.

I do personally strongly dislike sch dps lol.

But as far as dmg mitigation, using virus and eye are just like on whm, they are just better/shorter cd. You actually have the mana to use stoneskin even if it is 10% should you want to as long as you manage your aetherflow and charges. If you are a good whm you'll do fine. Suddenly you'll have mana! and not be in danger of pulling threat, (although the tank threat ceiling raise did help with that).

Plus, its much easier to level now if you hate fate grinding.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Sch receive i would say 1.5 - 2.5 x the mana to work with in a fight compared to whm. Due to aetherflow scaling with mana, being a 1min cooldown compared to SS 2min cooldown. Sch also having access to free healing from fairy and lustrate.

A sch can simply heal more, dps more, prebuff more,raise more. A whm will be holding back to some extent.

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Ive learned to solo heal alot so the other white mage can dps, when it comes down to longer fights i keep hearing the sch say they ran out of lustrates?

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Originally Posted by koikitty

Ive learned to solo heal alot so the other white mage can dps, when it comes down to longer fights i keep hearing the sch say they ran out of lustrates?

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Run out? It uses an Aetherflow charge, you get 3 charges a minute.