if this game was so good there would be more people just playing rather than these discussions in the forums. its apparent there's a issue with the direction SE took with xiv. im not sure how this will be fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupsi
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11-30-2013, 11:22 AMmidnitdragoon
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11-30-2013, 11:28 AMGilthasOh please, if you really played FFXI you should know how people dealt with the majority of the difficult mobs in the open world of FFXI: they completely avoided them. That's what you're calling a world "that has meaning and feels alive". I'm sorry that you feel that the open world of FFXIV has no meaning just because you can solo most of the mobs, I on the other hand actually enjoy being able to kill stuff on my own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
And stop with this "controlled" nonsense already. Open-world mobs are just as controlled as the dungeon mobs aside from your nonsensical example of having other people train mobs on top of you (which has nothing to do witht he mobs themselves).
Lol at the "claiming skills" part. The reason why people don't want the utter crap that was FFXI's king system isn't because they can't "hang with end game content" its because they'd rather actually play the damn game instead of standing around waiting for a mob to pop. You guys must be suffering from some form of Stockholm syndrome from doing too much camping in FFXI.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyKnuckles
The problem with so many arguments in this thread:Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
Everything in FFXIV is repetitive and boring. Not FFXI though! That game always felt fresh even though we were doing the same endgame content for years on end!
The other problem with arguments in this thread:
So many of the things you claim are good in FFXI weren't really that good.
But I think the worse of it all is that you're comparing a game with several expansions and years on its back to a game that was released 3 months ago. FFXI took a very long time to get all the endgame content that it eventually had, the same thing will happen with FFXIV. And the funny part of all of this? The best FFXI endgame content, the content that people actually had fun playing, was actually *drum rolls* the instanced content.
God forbid people actually enjoying themselves!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupsi
You're seriously delusional if you think there are more people posting on the forums than playing the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnitdragoon
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11-30-2013, 11:45 AMRaydeusI would jump on that faster than you can say Prishe. =PQuote:
Originally Posted by midnitdragoon
But unfortunately XIV actually started as XI-HD, then they decided they had a new "vision". And the rest is history. I guess 1.0's utter failure was just karma getting back at them for going back on their promise, and the only reason ARR was possible was because they were willing to spend A LOT of money to bring XIV back from the dead.
Edit >
Personally I would've liked seeing XIV die a horrible death and having them use the money to finally make XI-HD instead. But since that didn't happen I just want some indication I'll be able to play XIV for more than 6 months, because so far my projections barely get beyond that point. In comparison I played XI for around 10 years, so I'd be very happy if XIV could keep me entertained for a similar amount of time, heck even 5 years would be good.
But the way things are looking I give it 6 months before I get completely bored unless something really good happens in a future update. I'm already taking it very slow and taking breaks to play other games so I don't burn out, because I know if I played more often I'd get bored way too fast since I just don't like the WoW formula much. -
11-30-2013, 11:50 AMVelhartQuote:
Originally Posted by Tupsi
Because people might actually believe the direction the development team is taking is right. Your statement is kind of off because SE did believe they could throw whatever they wanted at us, and ohh hey look, we got Version 2.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by midnitdragoon
You really think everyone who plays engages on the forums? An extremely insignificant amount are actual active posters on here. -
11-30-2013, 12:01 PMgamersince1976
I'm loving this game. I'm not Legacy, just started a couple weeks after the PS3 launch. I've played a whole lot, mostly crafting. My FC just started our Coil group this week, and have only cleared turn 1 so far (with so many different schedules it's tough to get together more than a few hours a week).
That being said, I'm REALLY looking forward to the new content that's planned. I got my relic just after all DL gear, and now Philo tomes are worthless to me for anything but mats (or rolling the dice on crafting a 2 star item - the amount that have been sold on my server since launch is still less than a page in the history). Week 2 at endgame (after kicking myself for jumping on the ring too soon) means I'm sitting on less than 300 Myth and capped for the week. I've gotten in the habit of playing at least a bit daily, but it feels a little pointless currently.
So, all the content that's coming on the 17th (fingers crossed) is very welcome. :) -
11-30-2013, 12:03 PMTupsiFunny enough there were people who enjoyed the direction 1.23 was going and was hoping ARR would have expanded upon that while fixing the core issues - those people were told they didn't know a good game and were also called white knights. Kinda weird how it's swapped around whenever someone may have a complaint or criticism about ARR >.>.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
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11-30-2013, 12:20 PMMaxthunder
[QUOTE=Gilthas;1613776] snip
Believe what you want but when it is all said and done and this game actually starts bleed players due to everything being instanced, the open world being stagnant, players who continue to white night XIV will be the ones to lose out. This is an opportunity to make something great but you wish the game to be stagnant.
Also the so called instanced content in XI wasnt every damn dungeon. There is way less instanced stuff in XI than in XIV. I would rather have mobs trained on me than this stagnant open world we have now. The fact is you like everything in XIV but you dont want others to have something that they enjoy. The open world in XI is worth exploring where as the open world in XIV isnt, after you have done it once. -
11-30-2013, 12:24 PMVelhartI thought 1.23 was fine also and nothing against you if you liked 1.23's system more, but the fact of the matter is, it isn't in this game and a new system is in it. So either you like it or don't, ARR is technically a brand new game. So I would probably find a game that suits your needs if ARR cannot deliver it. SE knew making it that not everyone from FFXI/1.xx would be into it and looking at the numbers, they seem pretty content on that decision. I have a ton of criticisms towards ARR on several levels, but that is the nature of a launch game, it usually takes until about an expansion to get things into motion just like FFXI with Rise of the Zilart. I focus on suggesting to help improve current systems in the game to make it a more enjoyable experience because that is more of a realistic approach the developers may be willing to take in. Because while I think the systems in place are great, I do believe some of them can be improved upon for better gameplay, like making guildleves as a source for fighting unique monsters in certain areas or use events like Lightning's to engage in. Because while I like FATE's, the system just doesn't work well with special events. Saying "We want 1.23 back." or "FFXI did it better." doesn't help at all. It isn't to say I don't want to see some things from FFXI make it here as long as it doesn't conflict with FFXIV's system. Like certain jobs from FFXI I like to see return with a FFXIV take on it, bring Chocobo Racing back, or bring famous mobs from FFXI over here (which they have brought a lot of familiar mobs from FFXI already). Ideas that don't conflict with the system and improve the experience is the best thing for this game in my opinion. I wouldn't call people white knights just because they think a system is good, we can easily just call you a whiner for hating everything that isn't 1.23.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupsi
Actually my most favorite parts of FFXI was the instanced content. Dynamis, Limbus, BCNM/KSNM/ENM, Assault, Nyzul Isle, main story fights, Salvage, Einherjar, and so on. Why aren't people suggesting things like this from FFXI to come back? I'd love to traverse a tower like Nyzul Isle again with the puzzles and battles. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
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11-30-2013, 01:23 PMBabydoll
I just thought of something lol...my friends and I play a LOT everyday. Now..we have only seen Behemoth in the launch week. AUGUST!! How is that better then HNM? I understand the claiming system issue...yeah ok, but that is not an issue in fate since its carebear everyone gets to attack. But at least with HNM we had a window and knew a general idea of the spawn time! ; ; Why don't they at least put the timer back in like that lol.
I just want some hard open world end game stuff ; ; Make them put it in!!!! Haha...but yeah I agree it should be realistic/accessible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
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11-30-2013, 01:41 PMVelhartSounds like a personal problem. I have fought Behemoth and Odin on several occasions and I only play during the evenings and some on weekends. Only reason I haven't gone near them is because of the server crashes every time they popped, I believe that has been fixed for the most part though(maybe?). You should suggest to make guildleves more than what they are right now if you want major end game open world battles. Its non-conflicting for the most part with others and you get that open world experience you are craving. Like make it that you earn a special item when completing daily quests from beastmen and buying the item that lets you get a guildleve that lets you fight a major boss open world similar to Faction Leves. It goes back to what I said before in taking what is in place right now and improving upon it to make both parties happy. Unfortunately a lot of people are one-sided on the arguments and only like to shout the problems instead of find a solution that works for everyone. I wouldn't say my ideas are bad or good, but what I care about is balance and I am at least trying to offer something to the table. It is a pretty big understatement that having roaming HNM's has more negative aspects than positive, especially since this game is much bigger in terms of population per server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babydoll
So if you look at it one way, people are not exactly denying "hard open world end game stuff", but the way people want it is outdated and promotes more toxic behavior than we have already. Trust me, and you might know also, my 8 year experience in FFXI showed me how bad and desperate a person can be to get what he wants. At least the way the game is set up now, I don't conflict with that desperate group and the pace myself and my group play are our own. -
11-30-2013, 01:51 PMBaxterin XI mobs were often repurposed, whether crafting drops, exp logs, or magian trials there were reasons to kill mobs at all levels. A large majority of XIV's open world mobs are utterly useless and ignored at all levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilthas
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11-30-2013, 02:06 PMKyri
I loved 1.0 and im happy with arr but ive lost that "must log in!" feel I had in XI, XIV1.0 and though iI do enjoy FFXIV I just am really sick of dungeons.. and more dungeons and nothing but dungeons. Yes I do craft and gather, I enjoy both(but enjoyed them more in 1.0 tbh) but I feel the same. I miss chocobo escorts and Hamlets and world content. repeating dungeons makes me ... especially sine I do them for gear, for money, for tomes, well.. for everything. I know new things are coming and im hopeful but something not dungeon would be lovely.
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11-30-2013, 02:32 PMAllyrion+1 for group guildleves with major bosses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
I don't think "compromise" exists in most forum posters' vocabulary. -
11-30-2013, 03:27 PMLiadansWhisperSure. I'm not one of them. But what you're advocating is, quite frankly, silly. There's a reason why XI never got the amount of subs that XIV already has. And there's a reason why 1.0 failed. You are smoking something if you think that SE is going to make those same mistakes with this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupsi
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11-30-2013, 04:05 PMReslin1.23 was so good and brought so many people back that.. wait, it didn't? You mean to say there were only an insignificant 30,000 people actually playing? Sorry. I disagree with you and I don't think 1.23 was that great. You stated "If they fixed the core issues.." they did by scrapping it. People like to go "What was wrong with 1.23? Why didn't Yoshi continue with that?" You think he went "It's doing well but lol let's try something else." No. It's because it wasn't doing well. It wasn't bringing anyone back and people were still leaving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupsi
Also many of us (including me) who defend the game do admit to it's short comings. If you go through my posts you'll see admittance on certain faults as well as concerns and what I don't think will work. Thing is most of us are mostly happy with the game. It's done more right than wrong. People just keep suggesting terrible systems that have proven to not work in the past but suddenly think they'll work now. Systems that the majority of the player base (call them casual or whatever) simply don't want.
Could some of the ideas from 11 and 1.0 end up good additions to 14? Certainly but most of them won't work here and would change the core design of the game. Those things need to stay out. -
11-30-2013, 04:24 PMVelhartJust playing devil's advocate here, but I don't think it was because of 1.23 that people were not coming back. In general FFXIV 1.xx was a disaster and a flop and that alone made it extremely hard to get people back, especially with knowledge the game was going to be shut down and releasing a brand new version of the game. 1.23 did succeed in making the old version playable. The question they ask is if ARR would be as successful if the battle system stayed with the 1.23 formula, which was okay in it's own right. Would it have the mass appeal that the current system today does? We won't ever know, since we have a brand new system in place and it isn't going anywhere. So all people can do is leave it up to speculation. However, people thinking SE can just flip the switch and go back to 1.23 have unrealistic expectations and don't know what the process even is of changing the core fundamentals of the entire game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reslin
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11-30-2013, 05:39 PMReslinWhile that's all well and true SE has data on how people reacted to patch 1.23. They have seen how many stayed, how many left, and how many joined. Regardless, Yoshi didn't feel it did good enough to justify building a game around it. He didn't feel it would "Sell." the current rendition of FF14 is his vision because he felt that this is what would succeed, this is what would bring the players in, and this is what would be successful. So far he's been right. So the people asking for him to go back are being unrealistic. It's like asking him to go back to something that was failing over something that was succeeding. Could 1.23 polished up do well? Possibly but Yoshi and his team didn't think so. Is what we have now working? Yup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
I know you're just playing devil's advocate but at the same time I think this is something many of the 1.23 fans don't want to acknowledge. SE simply doesn't agree to them that what they made in the past (1.23) was worth salvaging. -
11-30-2013, 05:45 PMDooNo, I wanted a game more similar to FFXI than WoW but more casual than FFXI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cod_Eye
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11-30-2013, 05:48 PMBabydollHi Velhart..again haha :D Yeah that is a good idea. I really want fraction leves back. I think that would give us at least some open world end game stuff! In fact I really, really like your idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velhart
Yeah I played FFXI too...since 2003 until 2011 haha so I know exactly what you mean ;) Sorry if I'm not making much sense..lol 4AM here and I am so out of it but hopefully you get the idea! -
12-01-2013, 01:55 AMArusethMy opinion and i agree
These 2 things were fun and the relic quest back in 1.0 were a challenge. Granted the coil right now is challenging especially starting out. but really that's the only thing to do takes 3 hours to clear 1-4 if that. After that there isn't anything left to do in the game except craft; which is almost worthless with the current market system. being able to see all listed prices allows to much flux in prices nothing is ever steady in any market you pick. I think having retainers is a nice feature but they should block view of others listed prices that way ppl have to go by the history. They should also make it so ceartin items like food materials potions shouldn't be aloud to be broken up into stacks of 1-99 instead set it at 99 stack and if u don't have a stack then 1 at a time. I think this would stop flooding of markets and pushing ppl off the board after 100 hits. also having a listing price factor could help control markets so people aren't undercutting the market so often.
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12-01-2013, 01:56 AMAruseth
I think the game is too casual at the moment. everyone has access to everything their isn't anything to set anyone apart. its like playing a game of some sport variety at a highschool where everybody is a winner nobody loses. sure the casuals need some stuff but so do the hardcore gamers. Open world NMs for gear would be a great thing to have; as well as other open world content to keep people with more time to play interested. The curve for leveling in this game is so low that every casual can get 50 on any job in about 3 days hardcore players within 24hours. which leads me to crafting leveling...
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12-01-2013, 01:56 AMAruseth
Crafting is a joke to level. after you get to 25ish you can just go buy hq items for the turn in of leves. Now this gives you triple exp per turn in because of the HQ and then that exp 2 more times since u can turn it in 3 times per leve. This is in my opinion so dumb a craft is suppose to be earned the levels with this and gathering are just being given away which also in turn deplores the market as mentioned above. a Possible solution would be to have a tier system in crafts so u can only be a master at say 1-2 crafts currently 50 but if someday 99 then 2 at 99 a 2 at say 85 then 65 and the rest at 50. This way at least you have to choose a main and helps people choose a niche within the market. so if the current system is going to be kept this seems like a pretty fair and balanced solution.
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12-01-2013, 01:57 AMAruseth
Now as for the token system. Again everyone has it the gear from tomes its nothing really special which I guess is good for the casual player-base but gets boring for the hardcore players. I really don't have a gripe with this system but without other content to move on to free world or instanced just gets old way to fast. and with crystal tower going to be ilevel 80 that's another 3 months or so with nothing to really do when your already in ilvl90. Gaming is suppose to be a challenge and fun current content is just to weak or repetitive and kinda boring. The casual player base will no doubt flame troll and cry about my post but I don't care. If you don't have time to put in the effort and or will to do so then why are you playing a MMO in the first place? just saying
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12-01-2013, 02:41 AMLuso
I miss the charm 1.x had. It wasn't a great game, but it was still engaging and had some content that kept me coming back. The challenge and adventure feeling of an mmo seem to be missing in ARR.
Some things that could be improved:- Relics (everyone has one....these are not really relics. They are handouts.)
- Dungeons (everything is instanced and limited to the 4/8 party rules.)
- F.A.T.E. (in my opinion, we need less of these. Add quest chains instead.)
- Events (These are really fun, but without the vanity system these events sort of lack a lot.)
- Job roles (Tank, Healer, Dps. This gets boring. Add actual support, or better hybrids. When I say support, I mean an actual support spot for 4/8/24 man parties that's filled in DF)
- NM (why are these gones, and the ones that stuck around are now F.A.T.E.s xD )
- Lack of open world content
What happened, Yoshi you took the danger away from the world. I want my adventure back. -
12-01-2013, 03:25 AMLiadansWhisperThis is a symptom of your server. It is not this way on every server. Prices are quite steady on my server, unless bots are dumping everything on the Marketboards - but that has nothing to do with other players, and everything to do with RMT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruseth
That would quite honestly be horrible.Quote:
I think having retainers is a nice feature but they should block view of others listed prices that way ppl have to go by the history.
How on God's green earth would this help anything? I don't want to buy items in either stacks of 99 or just 1 piece at a time. I would prefer to get items in stacks of 20 or 30, and that is how I list most of my stackable items - because that's much more convenient for most buyers.Quote:
They should also make it so ceartin items like food materials potions shouldn't be aloud to be broken up into stacks of 1-99 instead set it at 99 stack and if u don't have a stack then 1 at a time. I think this would stop flooding of markets and pushing ppl off the board after 100 hits. also having a listing price factor could help control markets so people aren't undercutting the market so often.
"Other people are able to get stuff, too, and this makes me less of a special snowflake." Am I doin' it right? You haven't even cleared Twintania, but you feel the game isn't "Hardcore" enough? I dont't think you're really in a position to say the game isn't "hardcore" enough when you haven't even completed the most hardcore content available. :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruseth
So um...where exactly are you getting all of these items? Is this how you leveled? I checked the Marketboards on my server several times...there aren't enough HQ items listed for those leves (at least on my server) for it to be a viable leveling option. Is it just because you're a non-Legacy server? o_O Like, where are you getting all of these HQ items?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruseth
Also, I find it funny that you want to throttle everyone else after you've already gotten your crafts to 50. Would you be cool with having all of them wiped back to one, with no refund on your items spent, and losing any crafting gear you'd already attained?
Tomes gear is very much meant to be a fill-in for gear you haven't yet gotten in Coils or elsewhere. It's not meant to be a primary gear path, and that is why it is so damn slow to get. BTW, it's boring for the "dirty casuals," too! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruseth
The casual playerbase is paying for the game, same as you. In fact, there are a lot more of them than there are hardcore players. The casual playerbase is also doing your farming, doing most of the consumable crafting (since many of those "casuals" haven't gotten into PvE at all and are focused solely on crafting), and generally making the economy function. It never ceases to amaze me how so-called "hardcore" players (read: people who want to be hardcore, but really aren't) fail to understand the need for casual players. They pay the bulk of the bills. They are the people you ultimately recruit from to fill in spots. They fund your economy - both through gil they earn, alt classes they level, and crafting, etc. In short, the game needs both casuals and hardcore players, and casting aspersions on the casual playerbase is foolish, at best.Quote:
I really don't have a gripe with this system but without other content to move on to free world or instanced just gets old way to fast. and with crystal tower going to be ilevel 80 that's another 3 months or so with nothing to really do when your already in ilvl90. Gaming is suppose to be a challenge and fun current content is just to weak or repetitive and kinda boring. The casual player base will no doubt flame troll and cry about my post but I don't care. If you don't have time to put in the effort and or will to do so then why are you playing a MMO in the first place? just saying
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12-01-2013, 03:31 AMLiadansWhisperWhy is this a problem? How does this hurt you? From what I understand, Relic weapons were a random drop at one point, as were the items. How is that "more hardcore" than doing a very long, rather demanding questline to get an item?Quote:
Originally Posted by Luso
"Everything" isn't instanced. FATEs are not instanced. They do count, too.Quote:
- Dungeons (everything is instanced and limited to the 4/8 party rules.)
I actually wouldn't mind having more quest chains. I really don't want to grind FATEs to level alt classes, but I don't feel that I have another choice. Dungeon queues are extremely slow for DPS, and the dungeons themselves just don't give very good XP.Quote:
- F.A.T.E. (in my opinion, we need less of these. Add quest chains instead.)
They're fun the first day, but then become rather boring. Tying events to FATEs is also a mistake, I think. So I agree with you there.Quote:
- Events (These are really fun, but without the vanity system these events sort of lack a lot.)
The problem with Support is that you have two options: You can either make it not required (And thus no one takes it, because they will have supbar DPS and/or healing) or you make them required for everything (in which case, other classes are consistently excluded because the group needs that one ability that only the Support class brings). Case in point: Bards are not super supporty, but because of the way their Silence and Mage Ballad work, they are considered "required" for many encounters. This is also, I suspect, one of the reasons why they're talking about nerfing their damage output.Quote:
- Job roles (Tank, Healer, Dps. This gets boring. Add actual support, or better hybrids. When I say support, I mean an actual support spot for 4/8/24 man parties that's filled in DF)
I seriously have no idea what this is. People keep using this acronymn and the only thing I can come up with is "Normal Modes." Well, Normal Modes are boring. :-PQuote:
- NM (why are these gones, and the ones that stuck around are now F.A.T.E.s xD )
What are FATEs and how do they work?Quote:
- Lack of open world content
I'm not sure how Relics, Dungeons, Events, and Job Roles have removed the danger from your world.Quote:
What happened, Yoshi you took the danger away from the world. I want my adventure back.
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12-01-2013, 03:45 AMArusethI can jump on any legacy server and there market blows. Everyone that came at 50 and the handouts the newbies are receiving is breaking the game just like abyssea did in XI its crap earn your lvlsQuote:
Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper
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12-01-2013, 03:51 AMArusethTwintania is the only content that is hard and once our group gets it down we will one shot it like we do turns 1 through 4. and no the game isn't hard enough as a legacy player other than turn 5 there isn't a single thing to do in the game other than turn 5 and can only be done with 8 ppl for a certain amount of time per day certain days of the week. what to do the other 5 days of the week? nothing cause there isn't anything.Quote:
"Other people are able to get stuff, too, and this makes me less of a special snowflake." Am I doin' it right? You haven't even cleared Twintania, but you feel the game isn't "Hardcore" enough? I dont't think you're really in a position to say the game isn't "hardcore" enough when you haven't even completed the most hardcore content available. :-\
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12-01-2013, 03:53 AMMaxthunder
[QUOTE=LiadansWhisper;1615160] snip
This is the issue regardless if you have beatne turn 5 or not is irrelavent. Reason being is that turn 5 is the only thing left for hardcore players to do. Outside of turn 5 there is nothing, there is no challenge there is no dynamics to the open world it is stagnant. So you basicly are saying that all the hardcore should do is run turn 5 with nothing else to do on the side that offers any type of challenge?
NM stands for notorious Monster, something that you cant solo something that offers a challenge and has a limited spawn rate.
Fates maybe in the open world but they dont present any type of challenge it is nothing more than a zerg fest, they are practically useless to a level cap player.
Danger dose not exist in XIV due to everything being leashed and there are no mobs above the current level cap. There is nothing to threaten high level players. Even instanced dungeons are linear and boring they dont present any challenge (other than coil) they never change and are always the same.
We dont need quest chains what we need is a game that dosent hand everyone, everything, we need something that presents a challenge, something players have to actually work to earn not give hand outs to those who dont want to put time and effort into something. Nothing in XIV holds any value.
Casuals will only stay so long before the next big shiny game appears at that point probably 50% will bail, than that leaves the mid to hardcore base, but seeing there is nothing for the mid to hardcore why should they stay? Currently there is no reason to play more than once a week and thats is sad, because sooner or later a game that hardcore players can appreciate will appear and if you lose your mid to hardcore as well as half your casual base the game is going in the toilet and no amount of changes that Yoshi could do will bring them back. This game fail once already, this is SE second attempt and if it dosent work players wont give them a third chance. -
12-01-2013, 03:53 AMArusethIf you cant put in the time to get the good stuff then no you don't deserve to have it! Take your weak sauce back to Wow where you belong.Quote:
"Other people are able to get stuff, too, and this makes me less of a special snowflake." Am I doin' it right? You haven't even cleared Twintania, but you feel the game isn't "Hardcore" enough? I dont't think you're really in a position to say the game isn't "hardcore" enough when you haven't even completed the most hardcore content available. :-\
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12-01-2013, 03:54 AMmbncdNM is a reference to Notorious Monsters from FFXI. Basically, uniquely named monsters. HNM is related but not sure what the H stands for.Quote:
Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper
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12-01-2013, 04:07 AMArusethI wasn't arguing the need for some casual players just saying just because their casual they shudnt be handed everything to them on a silver platter. and your wrong imo, casual don't pay the bills cause casual don't play for as long as a hardcore player will they will break from the game for extended periods hence not paying the bills. hardcores keep there subscription going play often and rarely take any breaks from the game and if they do their subscription continues. at the end of the day both are needed but don't think because your casual you should have the ability to get what I can as a hardcore player with little to no effort on your part. Life don't work that way and neither should the game. And I don't care if the casual pay for the game as I do. again ill say it if u don't have the time to put in the effort go buy a console game you can beat in a few hours. otherwise stop whining when S**t gets hard and earn the gear and levels etc.Quote:
The casual playerbase is paying for the game, same as you. In fact, there are a lot more of them than there are hardcore players. The casual playerbase is also doing your farming, doing most of the consumable crafting (since many of those "casuals" haven't gotten into PvE at all and are focused solely on crafting), and generally making the economy function. It never ceases to amaze me how so-called "hardcore" players (read: people who want to be hardcore, but really aren't) fail to understand the need for casual players. They pay the bulk of the bills. They are the people you ultimately recruit from to fill in spots. They fund your economy - both through gil they earn, alt classes they level, and crafting, etc. In short, the game needs both casuals and hardcore players, and casting aspersions on the casual playerbase is foolish, at best.
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12-01-2013, 05:05 AMLiadansWhisperCome to mine, then. The economy on mine is quite strong. The only issue we're having at the moment is bots crashing the shard/crystal market, but the crystal market has already rebounded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruseth
Yes. That is what happens at the end of initial content before a content patch. It happens in every game, btw. It's also important to note that we're doing things somewhat out of order at the moment. They had intended for us to be spending quite some time in Crystal Tower before ever seeing Coils. But because they had to pull Crystal Tower at the last moment and swap in Coils, I'm fairly certain that they lowered the difficulty quite a bit since we're all doing it ostensibly reallllly undergeared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruseth
This happens in every game at the end of a content patch. I'm pretty sure this is the "niche" that the PvP area is supposed to fill in - something for people to do every day of the week, that changes every time, and is still there after you've cleared PvE content. I could be wrong, but that is how it seems to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthunder
Then again, I don't think that they expected people to rush to level 50 and ignore the experience.
Your idea for open world content is roaming elites? o_O I'll be honest...I really don't find that to be "compelling" content.Quote:
NM stands for notorious Monster, something that you cant solo something that offers a challenge and has a limited spawn rate.
The fact that they don't present a challenge and the fact that they are practically useless to a level cap player (outside of leveling alt classes/jobs) are two separate issues. The first (the lack of challenge) is due to the zerging that's going on, and that's regrettable but I don't know how SE could fix it, tbh. Even the item gathering fates end up a zerg fest. The second (lack of use to level cap players) is something that could be addressed by SE. And probably needs to be addressed by SE. The issue is, if Fates start dropping useful items, the zerg fests will probably become even more intense.Quote:
Fates maybe in the open world but they dont present any type of challenge it is nothing more than a zerg fest, they are practically useless to a level cap player.
Two things:Quote:
Danger dose not exist in XIV due to everything being leashed and there are no mobs above the current level cap. There is nothing to threaten high level players. Even instanced dungeons are linear and boring they dont present any challenge (other than coil) they never change and are always the same.
1) Mobs leash because people are jerks. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. People are griefing jerks, and unfortunately mobs need to leash or you have some asshat running level 50 mobs over a group of brand new players, destroying their experience (which is, incidentally, another reason why you can't interact with mobs in another person's Leves, nor can you engage mobs in a Fate if it's far below your level and you have not level synced).
2) Dungeons do not change, but people do. There are a myriad of ways to put flavor and spice into your dungeon run, but you have to think outside of the box. Personally, I recommend taking three scholars and a tank to WP and doing a speed run. Alternatively, you could do a "Relic-Only" run....where you run with just your Relic. And nothing else. >.>
Really? Well, that's your opinion, but it's not one I share. I'm proud of the classes that I've leveled, and the time I've put into gearing them and learning how to play them. I'm proud of the things I make with my crafts, and I find it interesting and engaging. You're not required to share my opinions, of course, but that doesn't make them any less valid than yours.Quote:
We dont need quest chains what we need is a game that dosent hand everyone, everything, we need something that presents a challenge, something players have to actually work to earn not give hand outs to those who dont want to put time and effort into something. Nothing in XIV holds any value.
This is an assumption, it isn't fact. "Casual" has a variety of definitions, but when I speak of "casual" players, I'm referring to people for whom raiding is not the center of their game experience. Those players may be more attracted to dungeons, or crafting, or even role play. Maybe they really enjoy leveling, or have a thing for playing the Marketboards, or they really like exploring. Maybe they play to hang out with their friends exclusively. Casual players are finding things to do every day, long after the hardcore" players who rushed to 50 but skipped the actual content burn out. Casual players tend to play on a casual basis - a few hours a week - but they keep their subs intact.Quote:
Casuals will only stay so long before the next big shiny game appears at that point probably 50% will bail, than that leaves the mid to hardcore base, but seeing there is nothing for the mid to hardcore why should they stay?
BTW, a lot of "hardcore" raiders also bail at the first sign of a shiny new game, so it runs both ways. :)
There's no reason for you to play more than once a week. There's more than enough reason for me to have logged in every day this week. Personally, this is one of the best games I've seen in years and I very much like the direction it's going in. Would I like more content? Oh yes! But this is also very early in the game's new life, and I understand that it's going to take a while for the game to settle.Quote:
Currently there is no reason to play more than once a week and thats is sad, because sooner or later a game that hardcore players can appreciate will appear and if you lose your mid to hardcore as well as half your casual base the game is going in the toilet and no amount of changes that Yoshi could do will bring them back. This game fail once already, this is SE second attempt and if it dosent work players wont give them a third chance.
LOL. I'm pretty sure I've spent more time raiding than you have playing any games at all. :) And, btw, I do agree that the raiding content is somewhat lackluster - primarily because it's nowhere near as difficult as hardmode raiding in WoW. But sure...I'm just weaksauce. *pats*Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruseth
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12-01-2013, 05:15 AMLiadansWhisperNever said they should. But they deserve access to the content just like you, and they are just as interested in rewards for the efforts they put into the game - and deserve them equally as much as you do so long as they put in the effort. They may not get there as fast as you do, but that doesn't mean that when they DO get there, they shouldn't be able to get the same shinies you did the first week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruseth
Hardcore players do this, too. In fact, they do this more often, because they tend to consume the content at a much higher pace than casual players do. Thus, casual players normally end up being much more reliable, in terms of sub revenue, because they still have things left to do after the hardcore players have cleared every boss and gotten bored.Quote:
and your wrong imo, casual don't pay the bills cause casual don't play for as long as a hardcore player will they will break from the game for extended periods hence not paying the bills.
This is not true.Quote:
hardcores keep there subscription going play often and rarely take any breaks from the game
And neither is this.Quote:
and if they do their subscription continues.
It isn't true in WoW, SWTOR, Rift, or this game. No one likes to pay for something they're not using, and hardcore raiders are not somehow "addicted" to the game more than more casual players. Sorry, but it's just not accurate.
I'm pretty sure if you were as hardcore as you like to claim, you'd have Twintania down, just like if I was seriously hardcore I'd have Heroic Garrosh down on 25 man on 5 alts. But alas, neither of us are really, truly that hardcore. That said, no one has ever asked for equal access to the rewards that are only found in Coils (well, beyond a few very silly people, but they are and should be ignored for such silliness). That does not, however, mean that the entirety of the game should be predicated on the wants and desires of "hardcore" players. This is not a hardcore game, and was not advertised as such. It's very clear that the game is aimed at a mix of players, with different skills and interests - which is a good thing, because it's going to make SE a lot more money in the long run.Quote:
at the end of the day both are needed but don't think because your casual you should have the ability to get what I can as a hardcore player with little to no effort on your part.
I haven't seen any "casual" players whining about the content. But I have seen you whining that there's nothing to do. It isn't even a question of having the same rewards - where did I ever, ever say that a casual player should have the same in-game rewards as a hardcore raider? Because I never said that. What I said is that by looking down on and spitting on casual players, and acting like somehow their presence is ruining the game and how dare SE actually aim content at those dirty, worthless players, you're doing yourself a disservice. You're also doing the hardcore raiding community a disservice because you are exactly the kind of elitist that people point to when they say that the hardcore community is ruining the game (it's not, but you're busily digging as deep a hole as possible).Quote:
Life don't work that way and neither should the game. And I don't care if the casual pay for the game as I do. again ill say it if u don't have the time to put in the effort go buy a console game you can beat in a few hours. otherwise stop whining when S**t gets hard and earn the gear and levels etc.
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12-01-2013, 05:17 AMReslinNot wanting to play a grind fest =/= being weak. Sorry. There's people who only play an hour a day out there that are better than you at gaming. Time consuming does not mean difficult. If you think time sinks = difficulty please learn to play. Asking for certain things to be harder is fine. I don't want more time sinks. I want an actual challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aruseth
Also as to your statement that hardcore players pay the bill? Sorry, wrong. According to satistics blizzard stated only 4% of their player base even completed MC back in vanilla. Guess what? 4% of WoW's numbers was a pittance. That means 96% of their playerbase are casual. If all 96% decided to take a break their population wouldn't be near what it is now.
P.S. If time consuming = Difficult I assure you FF11 was a very casual game compared to EQ. You can't end up losing everything you've earned by dying. Wiping on a raid boss in EQ could have disastrous consequences.
Also while we're on the topic of what mmo is more hardcore. Do you play EvE? Darkfall? Ultima Online? Mortal? My point is that to someone else you're always going to be the "Casual" here. I've stopped being hardcore and there's nothing wrong with being casual. Catering to the casuals as you put it is the best business decision you can make unless you build your mmo from the ground up to be hardcore. Even then EvE is the only one who has managed to successfully tap that audience. No other hardcore mmo has come close. If you put gates at the end game that only the hardcore have access too and release a leveling curve only catering to those who can put the time in the casuals are now just going to turn to other games in which do cater to their experience. There's more competition these days than back then.
P.S.S. I completely disagree with your assessment that hardcore players play the longest and don't take a break from a game. Aren't they the same players who complete content first, complain there is none, and then jump ship to the next game/wait for the next patch? They've even been this way on WoW. Unless you make an extreme leveling curve it will always be this way. Hardcore jump ship first. You want a game with an extreme leveling curve? ESO is just right around the corner. 16 hours to get to level 8. Have fun. -
12-01-2013, 05:31 AMBorfin
I always find it funny when people seem to think that hardcore raiders spend any more time in the game than anyone else.
I raided hardcore for 8 years and spent maybe an average of 4-6 hours a week playing depending on the guild I was in.
"Hardcore" players have jobs and lives too. Promise. -
12-01-2013, 05:52 AMHyrist
I'm going to be as inoffensive as I can.
The people who are clamoring for open world content need to be very concise in the way they want it, or they need to hit the door. Because right now, there is nothing in the system that can support true open world content, nor does it really encourage it outside of the FATE and Leve systems.
Let me give a brief breakdown.
1. Claims - there's no such thing as them. Quest credits are given to all who can deal a certain amount of damage. Damage is accessible to all who can clam. AoE effects all in the area. Every NM system in the game is, and will be encompassed within FATEs. Meaning there is zero way the traditional world boss claim system can be implemented without undermining the very fundamentals the system is built on. If we alter the fundamentals of claiming, then we're effectively turning this into a different game.
2. Danger vs Accessibility - It has been made very clear that the open world zones are to be accessible to all players. That means enemies will leash, and monster zones will not become too dangerous for the exploration of a single adventurer. This means any open circumstance that involves a valued target is going to be just as crowded as Behemoth and Odin are now. As it is, those two FATES are already both suffering from myriad problems from model prioritization to zone/client crashing from congestion. There is virtually no way a true open world content of high desirability will not become a zerg fest.
Any other situation of implementation becomes semi-instancing, such as Leves, which would work ,but in no way implement the full on "Open World" Content people are clamoring for.
I'm sorry, but the game just doesn't support it, not in game mechanics, system management, or philosophy.
The best they could do, without reconstructing the game again would be to meet people halfway, such as shared 'instances' like FFXI's current Dynamis structure, or in a force-pop method like Leves or the X-NM mechanics.
The true open world systems like Sky, Sea, and Ground Kings? That's not going to happen. Best you're going to get in those situations is the large FATES like we have now. That argument has already been brought up and shot down by Yoshida in more than one interview. -
12-01-2013, 06:37 AMDSNKind of hard the world is pretty small when compared to other games. If you are a crafter who farms their own materials you learn this really fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babydoll
There some materials that drop from one specific enemy and there are 6 in the entire game all in one spot over farmed / botted / camped, the solution to this is to have more than one camp for these enemies but they are out of space already. -
12-01-2013, 06:37 AMBabydollCan you post where he totally shot them down? If I knew this I would have left a long time ago, I am not saying I don't believe you, I just want to see it for myself so I can go be sad ; ; Large scale FATE things are NOTHING like sky, sea, or NM. FATE is a spam fest with no thinking involved..it is only for EXP and drops nothing game breaking..it is a sad, pathetic filler and slap in the face to the folks wanting real NM content. It is a waste of time end game...no one really uses it outside of leveling up. I would never consider it end game replacement for NM/etc...that is a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrist
Me hating FATE though is just a personal opinion. I don't even like it for exp lol. I enjoy using my brain and having to use strategy...
I know right? ; ; It is very pretty, but so very small. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by DSN
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12-01-2013, 06:55 AMMaxthunder
[QUOTE=Hyrist;1615430] snip
Yoshi's design choice in the in may well be his own companies collaspe, only time will tell. I remind you of what Yoshi had stated at one point and that was; he wants to attract a broad audience. Now currently he has catered to one side, so I find it hard to believe he wants to cater to A Broad Audience. Based of his design and what he has planned so far seems to be far from that.
I would say he made a bad design choice and has limited XIV due to the fact if at some point he did need to change course, he could not because of the design choice. He can include content for all he can include open world content for all if he wants too. In order to stand by what he stated about attracting a broad audience, he should include content even if it isnt accesible at 1st to the casuals due to the fact he also stated he would nerf the old content. So yes he could add the requests content in the open world and it would at some point benefit everyone, but than he will need to address his design to allow that. XIV needs to be more flexible than how it is currently design to be so ridgid. In the end it would be best to design XIV to be more flexible in any new expansions and or updates, to include true open world content regardless. You must take the good with the bad. Even now in the current XIV we have those that abuse others but that should not deter Yoshi or other players from not having true open world content. The community and Yoshi, can ensure that the players who wish to abuse things are removed from the game.
Than of course if subs keep dropping due to his design choice we may get our wish sooner than later, as this game can not flop again but we wont know for at least another 9 months. Best advice for everyone keep an open mind, look for possibilities, and dont throw away good ideas because players dont like them or care for them, this is what will help ensure the game continue's to be strong as well as grow.