Concerns about the PvP and why it might not succeed, though I want it to very much!

Anonymity is the source of bad behavior as there are no consequences for how one acts. The internet age has led to this and even promoted it in the form of trolling making one feel better than others by their actions. Everyone wants to point at SE for trying to prevent the pointless harassment from happening in the first place when the real solution is these people should have higher morals than to act that way in the first place. If you are doing something that would get you punched int he face if done in person... it is probably a big sign that you shouldn't be doing it.

One thing the older MMO's had due to the inability to change servers or cross server group for content was a strong sense of community. When someone acted out of line that person became blacklisted and the community banished them for their own actions. I wish this would return...

woah woah woah, that FRESH MEAT thing is still gonna be implemented?

oh dear.

I dunno why everyone has their panties in a twist about this PvP.

This is... wait for it... yup... you guessed it... FINAL... FREAKING....FANTASY.

Final Fantasy has ALWAYS been a PvE oriented game, honestly, they could lock us in place 4v4, standing in a line, letting us watch timers for our next move. You don't HAVE to have twitch-combat for fun and enthralling PvP.

They are adding PvP for FUN, that's IT. If you're expecting something that can "compete" with PvP like LoL, or CoD, WoW, or any other game that has put a big focus on PvP, then you're just getting your hopes up for nothing.

Personally, all the footage I've seen of the PvP looks fun, I don't need to circle jump like a monkey to have "fun" or "good" PvP.

Contrary to popular belief, you CAN use melee short range abilities on someone while they're running away, as long as you keep the gap close enough. So what does this mean? It simply means PvP in this game will FEEL different, than other games, big woop.

And are you really upset that the opposing team will be called Fresh Meat? All this means is you won't be able to make macros to target a specific person, which honestly, is a GOOD thing.

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Originally Posted by Soul_drax

Seriously this is one of the reasons why I will never PVP in this game.... SE's already taking the FFXI rout with PVP. This^^ is just beyond stupid, if people want to be cry babies and turn there names off let them but stop stepping on the feet of players who are over the age of 10 and can actually handle w/e comes there way grief wise. I'm not gonna go QQing to a GM because dem feel's got hurt and someone said I was bad... grow up or gtfo.

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It's not a new thing. Even a game like Aion, which is hugely focused on PvP, still gives opponents anonymous names in arena matches. What the reasoning behind it is I can't say. You also can't use any chat functions except party and legion, everything else is disabled (most likely to cut out the trash talking) and I'll imagine it will be the same here.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Oh look. Another thread predicting the doom of PvP. As usual it's filled with people who don't read the info coming from developers so they don't realize the game is going to be balanced separately from PvE. As such half of the complaints will naturally be about certain abilities being overpowered. Hurrah for needing another one of these instead of posting in one of the dozen other similar threads.

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So what does this high-and-mighty poster have to say about the 0.3 sec positioning delay, again?

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Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of the whole anonymous thing? Unless it's supposed to simply stop harassment in battle...?

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Not exactly, because except for people on your server, you're not likely to see those people again so you have no way of harassing them.

It's reasonable to be against the 'Fresh Meat' thing, but holy crap guys. Really? Is that how you're going to act? Should people take this thread as an accurate indication of what the PvP community is going to be like? Grow up, you're making yourselves look like giant red baboon asses.

Obviously the entire PvP community is not like that, but we all know just how well a vocal minority can ruin everything for the majority.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Not exactly, because except for people on your server, you're not likely to see those people again so you have no way of harassing them.

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But that further makes me question the entire point of the fresh meat thing.

Though, if WoW was any indication, the more toxic players won't be deterred to make a character and 'verbally' harass someone (unless they're using the basic account).

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Originally Posted by Rereyl

But that further makes me question the entire point of the fresh meat thing.

Though, if WoW was any indication, the more toxic players won't be deterred to make a character and 'verbally' harass someone (unless they're using the basic account).

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I remember when i was PvP'ing in WoW half a year back.. after an arena match someone tried to harass me because they won and thought i sucked... i came up with an amazing counter-argument for them, it was called /ignore. They surprisingly, didn't want to take the time to create a new character on the server and continue trash talking.. if I didn't know better, i would think that his trolling became rather un-fun once he realized that /ignore was an effortless thing to do.

You think Square would realize how easy it was, and how rare you would actually have to do it...

The more toxic players also won't bother hunting people down to harass them, they'll trash talk in the streets of Ul'Dah about how great they are and that the server has nothing but scrubs, with exception to himself of course.

So two of your reasons why it won't work are gear and inexperience?
Okay....
Not everyone has latency issues you know.

Is this really your reason?

I am going to have to call BS on a lot of these arguments. If you are truly only after the competition a person name matters about as much as eye color. Wrestled through highschool and up until recent injury did mma. I love competition, but I have never needed a name to enjoy the fight, chances are wouldn't of remembered it anyway. I enjoy Pvp but I avoid it in most games, because unfortunetly there are a lot immature idiots that flock to pvp and the bs that goes along with it is ridiculous. This is the only way to completely avoid it for everyone and I see no problem with it.

Shit talking in video games is stupid. You aren't hardcore, you aren't amazing. You press buttons, plain and simple. Bring on the Fresh Meat, the less interaction with the polluted community the better.

Most of the people talking against it... aren't even really PVPers are you? Almost sounds like you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

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Originally Posted by Hasseo

I am going to have to call BS on a lot of these arguments. If you are truly only after the competition a person name matters about as much as eye color. Wrestled through highschool and up until recent injury did mma. I love competition, but I have never needed a name to enjoy the fight, chances are wouldn't of remembered it anyway. I enjoy Pvp but I avoid it in most games, because unfortunetly there are a lot immature idiots that flock to pvp and the bs that goes along with it is ridiculous. This is the only way to completely avoid it for everyone and I see no problem with it.

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I can't even begin to imagine why you think this will solve the problem of immaturity.


4chan /b/ is a perfect example of how allowing trolls to hide behind a veil of anonymity turns them into paragons of virtue, right? Surely they will reconsider typing inflammatory comments when they realize their actions cannot be tied to their names...

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

Most of the people talking against it... aren't even really PVPers are you? Almost sounds like you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

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Some people despise us PvP players and PvP so much they feel it has no place here. They quickly forget Yoshida is a PvPer and that not all of us are mean. They also dont seem to realize lots of PvP vets are pretty respectful, Its usually the players fresh from the PvE grind or just assholes in general who get extremely heated from one simple loss outside of tournament settings. Those idiots are the same duty finder trolls people encounter. They just have an easier time making people mad in PvP. But they do not come from our community alone.

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Originally Posted by Aaron_T

So two of your reasons why it won't work are gear and inexperience?
Okay....
Not everyone has latency issues you know.

Is this really your reason?

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Except that nearly everyone does, and the devs have confirmed it's part of the netcode.

Toronto gamers will prevail! With ping of 14ms :D Too bad im in Norway yay 160ms ping + :(

And this is only if u dont counter in the latency lags.. FPS games are ping based, try shafting(lightning gun) in Quake on a server with ping over 100ms... good luck !

sigh ... you know they re reworkin netcode for endgame pve and pvp right ? no need to fear.

There will be pvp armors, pvp materias, pvp skills and all the like, it have been said countless of times. Also, sorry to break that image but, we PvPers are most of the time more than just respectfull compared to these PvE lootwhores / greedy persons in general. We re here to play against people, but its still at some point, you know, to play with them. Just do your best and if you lose you lose, take it with a smile, a good opponent is an opponent that enjoy to be defeated by someone that he just beated, that's how you start bromance.

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

sigh ... you know they re reworkin netcode for endgame pve and pvp right ? no need to fear.

There will be pvp armors, pvp materias, pvp skills and all the like, it have been said countless of times. Also, sorry to break that image but, we PvPers are most of the time more than just respectfull compared to these PvE lootwhores / greedy persons in general. We re here to play against people, but its still at some point, you know, to play with them. Just do your best and if you lose you lose, take it with a smile, a good opponent is an opponent that enjoy to be defeated by someone that he just beated, that's how you start bromance.

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They'll be addressing it in specific instanced cases. PvP will still be a broken mess. I'm not doomsaying for the game, I'm saying that that particular issue is going to break it.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

They'll be addressing it in specific instanced cases. PvP will still be a broken mess. I'm not doomsaying for the game, I'm saying that that particular issue is going to break it.

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Well with an attitude like that, of course it will.

If dont know who you are fighting and chat is limited to only your party how will this not solve the problem? Its real hard to troll someone when they dissappear once they leave instance. I fail to see how it could possibly make it worse. worse you can do is follow someone around and instance and single them out. Big deal, people do that in anygame regaurdless of names. Atleast this keeps is isolated to in instance only.

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They'll be addressing it in specific instanced cases. PvP will still be a broken mess. I'm not doomsaying for the game, I'm saying that that particular issue is going to break it.

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You should just stop trying.

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Originally Posted by Rereyl

But that further makes me question the entire point of the fresh meat thing.

Though, if WoW was any indication, the more toxic players won't be deterred to make a character and 'verbally' harass someone (unless they're using the basic account).

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The idea is to prevent harssment during the match e.g. curb stomping / tea bagging / etc which I guess isn't as fun if you can't put a name to the face.

During the beta test all chat except party was locked down. There was a likely oversight though in /emote which was not restricted. It was probably a bug and will hvae been fixed (you could /emote a <t> and reveal the target's name as well)

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Originally Posted by Acaelus

Well with an attitude like that, of course it will.

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Your white knighting and turning a blind eye does nothing to help SE recognize the problem.

And this is a problem that will leave PvP a broken, likely untouched mess - making it a waste of resources, effort and time spent.

Think interrupting was hard to get used to? Imagine juking interrupts in this game. Imagine kiting other players. Melee characters will be constantly on the move because that's what PvPers do. It can delay actions, if even for a second, because the server recognizes you as being somewhere other than your client does, and that delay can mean the difference between a win and a loss.

Kiting when your target is right in front of you, but you're being told it's out of range. Ever try to time a Bane on your primary target when your secondary target's running past? Only really functions if you Bane -after- they're close enough to your primary target, when they would otherwise be out of range if stationary. Frustrating as hell.

Imagine dropping Miasma IIs to kite that melee, but every time you hit the button, nothing happens. He's sitting on your head as you run away from him, but no Miasma II. Or your Bind triggers, but in that timeframe he's run within melee range because the server didn't recognize he was bound - oops, there's an Overpower in your face!

It will break PvP. Honestly these other issues are small potatoes, but PvP is going to be a broken mess because of this. Hopefully, they realize that, because as of now they've released no information to indicate they will be addressing it in the Arena itself.

The end.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

While we're aware some of you don't like the use of an anonymous name like Fresh Meat, the team has decided to go with that for now and don't have any current plans to provide additional options for it.

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I know it may seem a minor issue compared to something like positional lag, but I feel like this is a big mistake on the PvP team's part. I don't want to fight against anonymous pseudo-NPCs. I want to fight against actual players. I want to be able to recognize a formidable opponent by name and think, "Awesome, I know this guy. This fight's gonna be good!" The whole Fresh Meat thing kills a lot of the competition and spirit behind PvP.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

Your white knighting and turning a blind eye does nothing to help SE recognize the problem.

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They already recognized the problem. There is a recent official statement in regard to changes to netcode on populated zones only, especially Wolf's den, primals and bahamut's coil. Am I white knighing according to your logic?

Netcode issue isnt something new, it exists in FF11 ballista. It is an issue, yes, game-breaking? Not really. Most of my jobs in FF11 on ballista are close range: Ninja, Thief and Paladin, but i dont really find that netcode delay is game breaking. I dont have have too much trouble landing my weapon skill on target that is kiting me. You can go on and argue that Ballista is not a true PvP, but you need to kill someone to obtain Gate Breach nevertheless.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

They already recognized the problem. There is a recent official statement in regard to changes to netcode on populated zones only, especially Wolf's den, primals and bahamut's coil. Am I white knighing according to your logic?

Netcode issue isnt something new, it exists in FF11 ballista. It is an issue, yes, game-breaking? Not really. Most of my jobs in FF11 on ballista are close range: Ninja, Thief and Paladin, but i dont really find that netcode delay is game breaking. I dont have have too much trouble landing my weapon skill on target that is kiting me. You can go on and argue that Ballista is not a true PvP, but you need to kill someone to obtain Gate Breach nevertheless.

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It is game-breaking in PvP.

In PvE it's obnoxious and a major annoyance. In PvP? It will destroy it.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

It is game-breaking in PvP.

In PvE it's obnoxious and a major annoyance. In PvP? It will destroy it.

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My question to you is, have you been playing in FF11 Ballista with exactly same netcode issue? I did and I should be complaining according to your hypthothsis. Unfortunately, I did quite well in Ballista and I also able to provide screenshot of Star Cap as proof. Are you sure you are not here arguing just for the sake to argue? They already announced that netcode will be addressed for zone like Wolf's den. Is that not enough for you?

The discussion of this thread is no longer about netcode as we all know this issue is getting addressed for Wolf Den. Current debate is about whether we should be anonymous or not. Would be nice if you stick to that.

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In PvE it's obnoxious and a major annoyance. In PvP? It will destroy it.

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In PvP in FFXI there were specific adjustments made in PvP to make it playable- unable to alter server response they increased melee attack ranges so it wasn't impossible to hit people trying to run from you. They've also established that they can adjust response for specific locations but can't do it in the open world because a lower response time would put too much stress on the server. They said they were decreasing the response to .1 seconds (100ms) in specific instances.

As the above poster said, they know about the problem, and they will be making adjustments to address it where they can without causing the very problem they're trying to fix to get worse.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

My question to you is, have you been playing in FF11 Ballista with exactly same netcode issue? I did and I should be complaining according to your hypthothsis. Unfortunately, I did quite well in Ballista and I also able to provide screenshot of Star Cap as proof. Are you sure you are not here arguing just for the sake to argue? They already announced that netcode will be addressed for zone like Wolf's den. Is that not enough for you?

The discussion of this thread is no longer about netcode as we all know this issue is getting addressed for Wolf Den. Current debate is about whether we should be anonymous or not. Would be nice if you stick to that.

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What's awesome about discussions is that multiple can be happening at the same time within the same thread. Did you know that?

Incidentally, I was under the impression Wolf's Den was not one of the areas with planned workarounds, so it's good to know they're actually looking at it.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

What's awesome about discussions is that multiple can be happening at the same time within the same thread. Did you know that?

Incidentally, I was under the impression Wolf's Den was not one of the areas with planned workarounds, so it's good to know they're actually looking at it.

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You should pay more attention to the threads you post in as well as the live letters . And the QA thread, and the many other posts on the subject since the live letter.

Oh no, I missed the words Wolf's Den when the devs mentioned their plans to address specific content.

Quick, everyone get high and mighty.

Someone sounds mad, but.........

Not our fault that someone does not keep himself update with latest information..... :cool:

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Originally Posted by Borfin

Oh no, I missed the words Wolf's Den when the devs mentioned their plans to address specific content.

Quick, everyone get high and mighty.

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If that content is important to you then you should read carefully about it. Instead you came with your pitchfork at the ready. Not that it doesn't happen 100 times every day up in here.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

It is game-breaking in PvP.

In PvE it's obnoxious and a major annoyance. In PvP? It will destroy it.

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Incidentally, I was under the impression Wolf's Den was not one of the areas with planned workarounds, so it's good to know they're actually looking at it.

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I like to see manly angry persons goin full pussy. You re adorable. Begin to read maybe or are your thoughts too big for that ?

/throwin pop corn

Profit, it's free

It's a shame how many decided to pile on one guy for missing a single line of information about something. One person pointing out, "Hey, actually..." is fine. But for four other folk to mean-spiritedly parade in on the tail of some person's honest mistake and lord over him/her with demeaning, nasty comments... None of those posts were necessary or even warranted.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

It's a shame how many decided to pile on one guy for missing a single line of information about something..

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It is also very impressive with such double standard mindset. You need to take a second look on was he cut throat into an argument. He could stop respond when fact is already in front of him, but no, someone decides to throw a fit. There is no point for post #152 to exist at all, someone' is simply getting the consequence of his own action.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

It is also very impressive with such double standard mindset. You need to take a second look on was he cut throat into an argument. He could stop respond when fact is already in front of him, but no, someone decides to throw a fit.

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Keep at it. You don't look like a child at all.

I admitted my mistake. When are you going to get off YOUR high horse?

You'll notice I never actually tore into anyone. All of my arguments were stated plainly and without personal attack. YOU on the other hand...

Question : Will PVP be only for lvl50 or it will be by 5lvls tiers like in every other MMO?

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Originally Posted by Borfin

Keep at it. You don't look like a child at all.

I admitted my mistake. When are you going to get off YOUR high horse?

You'll notice I never actually tore into anyone. All of my arguments were stated plainly and without personal bias. YOU on the other hand...

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High horse? Nah, I have been civil and reasoning and post #152 looks like a provoking rather than an acceptance of the fact.

Quote the part that aim attacking you if you may. I simply asked you one question...what do you want when debs already fixing netcode and reminds you that netcode is not issue for current discussion .