Be brave

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

Just because they limited the Thaumaturge's curing abilities doesn't mean class = role. All along, the classes have certain abilities that can't be shared, and among the ones that can be shared, they are limited in potency when used off-class. The classes were never meant to be completely identical to each other at any point in time. That was never the intention with the Armory System.

It's as simple as this: Thaumaturges weren't meant to be better healers than Conjurers. So they got nerfed.

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A) The entire thaumaturge class is based on life/death and healing.

B) Conjurer and Thaum were both given healing abilities because they were both meant to have capacity to be healers.

C) conj was never meant to be isolated as "the healer class". Thm was never meant to be isolated as the "not healer class". Now Conj has been isolated as the healer class. Now conj = healer. Now conjurer is equated with the role of healing. Hence class now equates to role. Hence armory system has changed from being a system based on versatility and customisation to being repositioned as a "this is your class, this is your role" system.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

A) The entire thaumaturge class is based on life/death and healing.

B) Conjurer and Thaum were both given healing abilities because they were both meant to have capacity to be healers.

C) conj was never meant to be isolated as "the healer class". Thm was never meant to be isolated as the "not healer class". Now Conj has been isolated as the healer class. Now conj = healer. Now conjurer is equated with the role of healing. Hence class now equates to role. Hence armory system has changed from being a system based on versatility and customisation to being repositioned as a "this is your class, this is your role" system.

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They're going through a little thing called 'game balancing' at the moment. I don't know if you noticed this whilst you hide under your rock but they're making radical changes to the game. this means that some aspects of the game, including it's classes, may bounce up and down like a yo-yo for a while whilst they try to even everything out.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

A) The entire thaumaturge class is based on life/death and healing/Damage

B) Conjurer and Thaum were both given healing abilities because they were both meant to have capacity to be healers.

C) conj was never meant to be isolated as "the healer class". Thm was never meant to be isolated as the "not healer class". Now Conj has been isolated as the healer class. Now conj = healer. Now conjurer is equated with the role of healing. Hence class now equates to role. Hence armory system has changed from being a system based on versatility and customisation to being repositioned as a "this is your class, this is your role" system.

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Apearently you are a little confused. As the facts stand now, little to nothing in your post is accurate to the actual situation in game.
I had to modify section A accordingly as you tend to scew fact or omit important information.
Section B is on the other hand a gennerally accepted statement.
Section C is the belief of the week minded. If you are allowing others to force you to heal when every SP party, NM party, or raid party can accomplish there goal with THMs doing 100% of the healing, then thats your fault.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

It's as simple as this: Thaumaturges weren't meant to be better healers than Conjurers. So they got nerfed.

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Oh really, meant by whom? Oh that's right, they "weren't meant" all of a sudden 9 months after the game came out. Right, right..

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

conj was never meant to be isolated as "the healer class". Thm was never meant to be isolated as the "not healer class". Now Conj has been isolated as the healer class. Now conj = healer. Now conjurer is equated with the role of healing. Hence class now equates to role. Hence armory system has changed from being a system based on versatility and customisation to being repositioned as a "this is your class, this is your role" system.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Konachibi

They're going through a little thing called 'game balancing' at the moment. ... this means that some aspects of the game, including it's classes, may bounce up and down like a yo-yo for a while whilst they try to even everything out.

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There's another way to word that.. scrapping the Armoury system. If you want to see what game balance would have looked like, Tanaka had that planned, and it had nothing to do with scrapping the Armoury system.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Apearently you are a little confused. As the facts stand now, little to nothing in your post is accurate to the actual situation in game.
I had to modify section A accordingly as you tend to scew fact or omit important information.

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He was talking about the lore of Thaumaturges.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Apearently you are a little confused. As the facts stand now, little to nothing in your post is accurate to the actual situation in game.
I had to modify section A accordingly as you tend to scew fact or omit important information.
Section B is on the other hand a gennerally accepted statement.
Section C is the belief of the week minded. If you are allowing others to force you to heal when every SP party, NM party, or raid party can accomplish there goal with THMs doing 100% of the healing, then thats your fault.

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THM is still an inept healer relatively speaking. Go back to patch notes and look at how SE repositioned Conjurer as a typical WHM job/role. Are you blind to what's actually happening or just get off on false arguments?

On topic:

SE needs to get way more ambitious. Recently they've stated they want to make the game a gear grind. They want to release new content every 3 months for people to do.

This is really shooting themselves in the foot.

I think they are still stuck on trying to immitate the WoW-model that they've overlooked how all new MMOs are leaving this concept behind as the market realises there's more to a Massively Multiplayer Online Game than making players chase carrots.

Yoshi's mentality is so unambitious.

-Force people into specific roles
-Instances
-Gear Grind
-Some quests

That's all it comes down to. And that is not enough to make it in the industry. Looking at the old team's vision, they were much more ambitious. Much braver. Much more market potential.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

THM is still an inept healer relatively speaking. Go back to patch notes and look at how SE repositioned Conjurer as a typical WHM job/role. Are you blind to what's actually happening or just get off on false arguments?

On topic:

SE needs to get way more ambitious. Recently they've stated they want to make the game a gear grind. They want to release new content every 3 months for people to do.

This is really shooting themselves in the foot.

I think they are still stuck on trying to immitate the WoW-model that they've overlooked how all new MMOs are leaving this concept behind as the market realises there's more to a Massively Multiplayer Online Game than making players chase carrots.

Yoshi's mentality is so unambitious.

-Force people into specific roles
-Instances
-Gear Grind
-Some quests

That's all it comes down to. And that is not enough to make it in the industry. Looking at the old team's vision, they were much more ambitious. Much braver. Much more market potential.

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Damn User201109011315, layin' it down like a pro. You just seriously called out Yoshi-P. I've been telling him this from day 1, please be a market leader and not a market peer. The 4 things you ticked off are good if you're a career WoW player but there is so much more to an online game than devolving to that! Hello, Minecraft? If anything they should stop restricting people, do their 3 month gear grind if they want, but they need to open the game up to other kinds of people. Tanaka had a vision of people logging in just to be Blacksmiths, or Botanists, and maybe help out during a raid somehow without actually being in combat. Damn you Tanaka for resigning.. and damn you if you had stayed!!

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

THM is still an inept healer relatively speaking. Go back to patch notes and look at how SE repositioned Conjurer as a typical WHM job/role. Are you blind to what's actually happening or just get off on false arguments?

On topic:

SE needs to get way more ambitious. Recently they've stated they want to make the game a gear grind. They want to release new content every 3 months for people to do.

This is really shooting themselves in the foot.

I think they are still stuck on trying to immitate the WoW-model that they've overlooked how all new MMOs are leaving this concept behind as the market realises there's more to a Massively Multiplayer Online Game than making players chase carrots.

Yoshi's mentality is so unambitious.

-Force people into specific roles
-Instances
-Gear Grind
-Some quests

That's all it comes down to. And that is not enough to make it in the industry. Looking at the old team's vision, they were much more ambitious. Much braver. Much more market potential.

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That would sure suck if any of it were actually true and stated by SE! Thank god it is just a typical gifthorse delusional rant.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Damn User201109011315, layin' it down like a pro. You just seriously called out Yoshi-P. I've been telling him this from day 1, please be a market leader and not a market peer. The 4 things you ticked off are good if you're a career WoW player but there is so much more to an online game than devolving to that! Hello, Minecraft? If anything they should stop restricting people, do their 3 month gear grind if they want, but they need to open the game up to other kinds of people. Tanaka had a vision of people logging in just to be Blacksmiths, or Botanists, and maybe help out during a raid somehow without actually being in combat. Damn you Tanaka for resigning.. and damn you if you had stayed!!

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Lets not forget about Tanaka's dream for all crafters to come together to build air ships O.o if only dreams came true.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

That would sure suck if any of it were actually true and stated by SE! Thank god it is just a typical gifthorse delusional rant.

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I mean this in the nicest possible way, but if you don't think Yoshi has stated these things, then the only delusional one around here is you. Delusional or gullible.

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Originally Posted by Bled

Lets not forget about Tanaka's dream for all crafters to come together to build air ships O.o if only dreams came true.

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I believe those were naval ships, not airships.

But still.

Features like player-run companies and collaborative content (ship building) would have been an outlet for player progression which wasn't just a flat out, unapologetic, blatant, generic gear grind. And so I think the old dev team had the right of it.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

I believe those were naval ships, not airships.

But still.

Features like player-run companies and collaborative content (ship building) would have been an outlet for players which wasn't just a flat out, unapologetic, blatant, generic gear grind. And so I think the old dev team had the right of it.

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aye you sir are correct they were naval ships, not airships, slip o the FF terminology tongue lol

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Originally Posted by Bled

Lets not forget about Tanaka's dream for all crafters to come together to build air ships O.o if only dreams came true.

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And making cannons, giant cakes and player guilds of their own...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FR3oXDIEj4

If only... if only..

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Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere

And making cannons, giant cakes and player guilds of their own...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FR3oXDIEj4

If only... if only..

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I have never really watched that video. Man it does look pretty good. I feel like this new team is not thinking outside the box at all. They are working to deliver us familiar stuff from other games instead of something new. Watching that video I got the sense that I got when I first got this game. Something new, unique, unfamiliar, wonderful. Alas.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

I have never really watched that video. Man it does look pretty good. I feel like this new team is not thinking outside the box at all. They are working to deliver us familiar stuff from other games instead of something new. Watching that video I got the sense that I got when I first got this game. Something new, unique, unfamiliar, wonderful. Alas.

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Don't worry Hyur, we can dream... We shall make giant cakes one day! (Oh wait I forgot, Hyur can't cook lol)

It's funny how they said "there's no point for ship building and cake making".

It's funny because that's their job as developers, to make it have meaning.

Duh.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

It's funny how they said "there's no point for ship building and cake making".

It's funny because that's their job as developers, to make it have meaning.

Duh.

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I kind of understand what he means though. What is the point in developing a meaning for these things over others? Do you honestly think this should be developed over top of, say, the Materia System or the new crafting recipe and HQ edits? I think the biggest reason of, "why" is why "this" over "that"?

I think it's important to edit yourself, especially in this type of position, down to what YOU think is important towards your vision. Personally, I feel that company group crafting projects seem a lot less intriguing that what is coming down the pipe line.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

I kind of understand what he means though. What is the point in developing a meaning for these things over others? Do you honestly think this should be developed over top of, say, the Materia System or the new crafting recipe and HQ edits? I think the biggest reason of, "why" is why "this" over "that"?

I think it's important to edit yourself, especially in this type of position, down to what YOU think is important towards your vision. Personally, I feel that company group crafting projects seem a lot less intriguing that what is coming down the pipe line.

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"Why this over that" is a question I honestly don't think the dev team ever asked themselves.

• Half the players hated spamming actions so they added autoattack which half the players hate.
  
  Net effect: nothing.
  
  
• Economy ruined by easy-mode gear drops so they add materia system to combat a problem they added.
  
  Net effect: nothing.
  
  
• Materia system makes HQ crafting too complicated so they have to oversimplify the system to accommodate it.
  
  Net effect: less than nothing.
  
  
• Oversimplification of crafting system turns the crafting process into a material grind, negating any kind of skilful play for crafters (guaranteed HQ success).
  
  Net effect: stupid

2.0 isn't even here yet, they haven't even done an official announcement listing off all their features, they're re-designing a terrible engine/client built with horrific limitations that crashes at least once a day for most users.

As much as we'd like to bitch about not having lots of features and cool content, I'd prefer them to have a working client, with no input lag and move their data to better hardware before even worrying about the content.

Why did you bump this thread..

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Originally Posted by Mudd

Why did you bump this thread..

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report it and move along I guess.

There's nothing wrong with bringing a topic back up for discussion. Although anybody reading this now should know this topic is from before 2.0 was announced, and it was a criticism of the direction of the game.

While many of the criticisms of this thread are being addressed by 2.0, what is troubling is that many of the things that were -perhaps needlessly- altered have not been planned to be remedied.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

"Why this over that" is a question I honestly don't think the dev team ever asked themselves.

• Half the players hated spamming actions so they added autoattack which half the players hate.
  
  Net effect: nothing.
  
  
• Economy ruined by easy-mode gear drops so they add materia system to combat a problem they added.
  
  Net effect: nothing.
  
  
• Materia system makes HQ crafting too complicated so they have to oversimplify the system to accommodate it.
  
  Net effect: less than nothing.
  
  
• Oversimplification of crafting system turns the crafting process into a material grind, negating any kind of skilful play for crafters (guaranteed HQ success).
  
  Net effect: stupid

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This post is very poignant now, 9 months later.

Remember crafting when it first came out? Crafters were necessary in all areas of the game, for end game weapons and armor to every accessory in the game. Now, crafters are cut out of the equation by end game progression and low level NMs.

While looking forward to 2.0 let's not lose sight of the overall picture.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

There's nothing wrong with bringing a topic back up for discussion. Although anybody reading this now should know this topic is from before 2.0 was announced, and it was a criticism of the direction of the game.

While many of the criticisms of this thread are being addressed by 2.0, what is troubling is that many of the things that were -perhaps needlessly- altered have not been planned to be remedied.



This post is very poignant now, 9 months later.

Remember crafting when it first came out? Crafters were necessary in all areas of the game, for end game weapons and armor to every accessory in the game. Now, crafters are cut out of the equation by end game progression and low level NMs.

While looking forward to 2.0 let's not lose sight of the overall picture.

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There's still loads of gear that's best in slot for some classes and it's all crafted. The majority of double and trip melds are better than lots of endgame gear.

Not arguing against you per say, just saying that crafters are still relevant.

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Originally Posted by Grimwald

There's still loads of gear that's best in slot for some classes and it's all crafted. The majority of double and trip melds are better than lots of endgame gear.

Not arguing against you per say, just saying that crafters are still relevant.

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Actually that is an interesting point. Does triple melding make crafters more relevant? I don't think it does. In America, most of us would never ask someone to triple meld an item for us. The existence of melding is like another personal grind to take on. You would never think of who the best crafter is to try to make that item for you, since it's all based on luck. So you grind that particular craft up just so you can repair your own gear and meld your own items. I would go further and say that most of the people that do that aren't that into their craft and don't even actively make and sell items on the markets in that particular craft. Now that I think about it, it sort of make the concept of crafting even worse than it originally was.

Not arguing with you either, but you have to admit that the vision of crafting as it originally was was so much better than how the landscape looks now. Imagine that, no gear ever dropped anywhere in the game. That fact really made crafting special. Anytime you saw any gear of any kind, you realized that a crafter put their time into that item. Now when you look around it's easy just to see piles of junk.