FFXIV: ARR becoming TORtanic

- No PvP upon launch (even SWTOR had PvP on Launch)

Not unusual.

- Little Post-Game Stuff to do (AK,CP Runs, Long Duty Finder Queue, Tomes Farming)
Very boring and repetitive stuff.

Most MMOs boil down to this in the end. Seems okay to me.

- Little incentive to do a max level alt class, leveling them is entirely dependent
Upon mindless Fates grinding and minuscule leve quests, seriously why shouldn't
former low lvl quests reset for a low level alt?

You can always make a new character. You get achievements for having it all on one character because it is hard. Also you should be able to build up a ton of rested xp after hitting one to 50 AND it gives you a 50% xp boost for a big level difference between cross classes.

- Crafting is very boring and inconsequential and a majority of players have no interest
In wasting their time crafting wherein they could be doing other more fun stuff

Crafting is amazingly fun. There's a lot of people doing it. I do it a lot myself and it's the most fun I've had crafting in ANY mmo I've played in the last 10 years.

- Worthless monster drops that give nothing but stupid crafting materials

I love crafting :3 those drops are fun for me.

- Very hard to accumulate Gil in this game because monster loot sucks.

I've been able to get money pretty easily. Leves give a lot of money, especially if you turn in HQ items from my sick gathering >:3

- Ridiculous teleportation and repair fees

Teleportation is chump change! Repair is pretty low too. I figure that might be raised eventually.

- No server transfers upon launch

Also not unusual. The servers are always in a tenuous state on MMO launches. Most companies will only start transferring once things have settled. You don't want people just abandoning worlds and then having worlds that are too small to flourish. They probably could transfer people now, but... they won't, and they shouldn't.

- Terrible Instance Dungeon queues in Duty Finder

My que is just fine! Then again I tank :3 This also isn't unusual. Welcome to MMOs? DPS have long waits for dungeons. Healers and tanks get in right away.

- No vanity/fashion items upon launch

There are a lot of fun pets to get. Also the barding is really cool for the chocos. I love what they do have and the swim suits were pretty fun from the event. You did the event didn't you? You know that's a vanity item right? The swimsuits don't do anything...


I wonder how much of this you actually thought about and how much you just pissed out as angrily as you could.

I say good job square. You've got my sub.

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Originally Posted by oberonQA

Another person who rushed through the content and is now complaining about lack of content.

<<sigh>>

Perhaps you shouldn't have rushed, eh?

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2.0 was designed with max level characters already existing. There's no rush in that.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

For god's sake stop defending the game's deficiencies, Square Enix already failed big time with 1.0 which should already be a sign to everyone that they are not perfect, in fact they've been delivering nothing but flops for more than a decade now, they said it themselves, another Failure like FFXIV 1.0 and it will ruin their company.

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Indeed, they messed up big time with 1.0. But saying that they have delivered nothing but flops in 10 years is like a little bit too much xD.

Personally (as I speak only for myself) I love FFXIV ARR. Also I totally loved the new Tomb Raider, and Sleeping Dogs. Not to mention Final Fantasy XII which I also liked (not my favorite, but was good).

I Agree with OP in that SE should have released more than one dungeon that drops Myth, having only AK for that gets boring and repetitive, also is the main cause of the long queue times to enter it.

But this will be addressed in version 2.1, in one month or so. Meanwhile I do recommend leveling a second class, its really good that you can play different roles on the same char, is like a different game every time you change roles. Tired of being a DPS? try tanking or healing. Tired of being a melee fighter?, try blackmage or summoner. For me that's one of the most positive things about FFXIV.

Lack of content you say?

Lets see, 50 Arcanist, 19 Thauma, 8 Conj and 7 Lancer, and thats it.

You didn't even pick up the other professions. There is your problem.

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Originally Posted by Chrysania

WOULD I PLAY THIS GAME IF IT WERE SINGLE PLAYER?

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No, nor would I want it to be. If I wanted to play a single player game, I’d go play a single player game. There are very different dynamics in play between single and multiplier games, much less MMOs. To judge a multiplier/MMO game on single player game metrics IMO is a terribly biased way of looking at things.

Beyond the obviously different experience the two are designed for, there is a social and persistence component that simply doesn’t exist in single player games, and for many people that’s what makes the MMO experience for them. For example, as much as I loved playing Tales of Xillia, I would not give it more than one play-through. Even my all-time favorites of FFT, VC, Xenogears etc, I would be hard-pressed to give them more than a few runs.

On the other hand, MMOs like Eve Online? It’s a game I would not enjoy playing it if it was a single player game - something like the X3 series, and I find myself getting bored incredibly fast in those. Yet I have immensely enjoyed my 7+ years in Eve, nor do I see myself ever quitting that game until the day it shuts down. The social aspect of the game and the persistent nature of the world turn what would’ve been a meaningless action in a single player game to something that actually matters in the online world – when I blow a ship up, it’s no longer just some pixels and numbers on my own PC, it’s someone else’s prized pixels and numbers :p

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'Cause this just isn't a good game. Its an MMO alright, and there's this demented sort of...something akin to a twisted sort of pride that pervades the MMO gaming community, that MMO's don't have to be good games. They're not supposed to be good games. They're supposed to be grindfests that are painful to play because you're supposed to bleed, and suffer, and hate every step of it until you are hardcore, and then you are allowed to be proud and happy.

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In some ways this is also seen in brutal sandboxes like Eve vs theme parks like ARR and WoW, we often get risk-averse players coming in Eve wondering why there isn’t guaranteed safety in high security space, to them the idea that one can be destroyed anytime, anywhere if someone else wanted to bad enough to be terrible. To us however, that makes the action you take in game actually meaningful, as you actually have something worthwhile on the line in a fight. IMO, you seem to be even further down on the scale.

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I want a good game. There are lots of good games to play. WoW is a shockingly and amazingly good GAME to play. Of all the MMO's currently going, WoW is one of the few I'd play single player.

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That is purely a matter of opinion, not objective fact. I’d rather play minesweeper than WoW.

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SWTOR? Some of those class stories are pretty fun, though they suffer from some of the same disjointed schizophrenia that's plaging ARR's main story. You have to do way too much 'side' stuff between installments, and it gets really easy to wind up going 'Why do I care about this dumbface again? I remember what was happening, but not why I'm supposed to care' a lot in some of them. Not so much in others.

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To me it just sounds like what you really want is a single player game with online components, rather than an actual MMO. That’s fine, but frankly IMO you’re looking at the wrong genre if that’s the type of game you’re looking for.

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Originally Posted by Azazela

this is a 100% pure PVE game, and it will never have PvP outside of a trivial token feature.

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http://funnycatwallpapers.com/wp-con...umpy-cat-1.jpg

PvP games have notoriously been terrible, both in terms of net money gained by the company and over all player consensus.

PvP games are not popular with a subscription model, they're very complicated and prone to massive imbalances. It puts the entire game under a microscope.

MMORPG's are primarily a PvE game, with Final Fantasy being the up most pve oriented ones around. I would rather this game not be burdened by plague that is PvP in a PvE Genre.

No it isn't. I'm going to reply because your supposed frustration and dooms daying opinion is frustrating me.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

Seriously, with the way things are progressing, it won't be long until this game follows the footsteps of SWTOR:

- No PvP upon launch (even SWTOR had PvP on Launch)

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You're right. You just need to sit tight on this one. Its gonna be a WoW grind fest when it hits imo. Shoot they are copying something from the now "standard" MMO.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

- Little Post-Game Stuff to do (AK,CP Runs, Long Duty Finder Queue, Tomes Farming)
Very boring and repetitive stuff.

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This is how every mmo i've played has been. In WoW on release you did MC and you didn't get tomes. You had to wait for the drop then beat your guild mates on rolls or dkp whatever.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

- Little incentive to do a max level alt class, leveling them is entirely dependent
Upon mindless Fates grinding and minuscule leve quests, seriously why shouldn't
former low lvl quests reset for a low level alt?

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I agree with this one. And I also heard there are already changes in the works for this. So its been acknowledged using what game assets are already available. Ignorance here sir.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

- Crafting is very boring and inconsequential and a majority of players have no interest
In wasting their time crafting wherein they could be doing other more fun stuff

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The crafting in this game is the most unique crafting system I have ever seen. Its like a totally different game. So imo you have no idea what you are talking about. Lets look at WoW as a miner. Hit the node, take the loot, hit the node, take the loot. Mining is completely different in this game and actually involves strategy. As for crafting it self if you know what you're doing you can level very fast, make a lot of gil, and then we got NQ, HQ, CP, gear. Yea, you have no idea what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

- Worthless monster drops that give nothing but stupid crafting materials

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L2P - Items that drop off mobs sell for 1000 gil+ on my server.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

- Very hard to accumulate Gil in this game because monster loot sucks.

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L2P - Items that drop off mobs sell for 1000 gil+ on my server.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

- Ridiculous teleportation and repair fees

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I think you've been spoiled again here. L2P with favored destinations, home point, and chocobos. The world is not that big in this game.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

- No server transfers upon launch

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NO server transfer on launch for WoW. WoW or not this shouldn't be a bullet point. EVERY online game has issues on launch. Now you should know better for next game.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

- Terrible Instance Dungeon queues in Duty Finder

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Are you playing a dps? I'm not gonna lodestone you though. There's alternatives though (such as forming your own group) but no one trys to get in groups because of the duty finder. Mixed bag on this one.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

- No vanity/fashion items upon launch

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Spoiled again. Shouldn't be a bullet point.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

I hope Square Enix remembers that first impressions last and hope they won't regret that these game deficiencies won't be solved too little too late like SWTOR did.

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If they last then why is this game so popular that it exceeded SE's expectations on the relaunch so much that error 1017 owned us? If they last people wouldn't have bought realm reborn. As for my first impressions this game is top notch. I've encountered 2 bugs so far and that is not an estimate.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

I can name you a myriad of mmos: Ragnarok Online, Rising Force Online, Tera Online and a dozen more Korean mmos


The White Knights are already defending their masters I see

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Ragnarok Online, sure?
At launch (2003) there was no endgame content at all. All what you did was killing enemies and not more. There was even no WoE at launch (it came with or after the Turtle Island update, if i remember it right). Or do you mean the handfull MVP monsters that were there at launch?

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Originally Posted by Juubi

It took months before you become level 99 (max level) on top of that monsters drops fashion items and cards that you can use to upgrade your weapons and equipments, what do monsters in ARR drop? crafting materials worth nothing

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Level Up has nothing to do with endgame content.
And crafting materials is worth nothing? I sold a Morbol Vine (HQ) for 1425 gil in the AH. You can find it by killing Morbols.

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Originally Posted by Skullcrusher

Well, honestly , cya then. Get the F out of here!
Why are you here?
What do you expect to gain from crying on these forums?

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quoted for emphasis

swtor "failed" due to over-hype expectations , bad engine that cant have too many toons on the screen or the game itself will lagged so hard (ex 1-2 fps on open pvp world ilum),bad decision making and etc. swtoralso failed because it was suppose to be the "WoW killer" and dethrone WoW as the mmo giant

...it didnt and now swtor is seen as a failure.


ffxiv can survive on 200k subs alone, se dont need to have 500k + subs for this game to be successful. ffxiv isnt even trying to be one of those wow killers unlike other MMOs. in fact, i honestly believe that SE didnt think they would get more than 200k sub.

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Originally Posted by sasakusaku

Then I stand correct, however you fail to mention that FF 14 is cross platform thus a massive console base to draw upon while GW2 is PC exclusive atm; that is a pretty solid number of people still playing it. By no means is GW2 flop, no matter what you say it's busy as ever a year later; a proper comparison should be 3 months launch of both games and I am sure GW2 might be close.

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Never claimed it was a flop. Just correcting some information. I also noted that FFXIV is new and still has "new mmo syndrome." a few months will tell if it grows or lessens in population. GW2 has a solid number of players people claiming it flopped are being ridiculous.

PVP is awful in MMOs. Most people here don't like PVP. FFXI didn't even have real PVP and it was wildly successful.

You played nonstop and skipped major content until you were 50 and now complain you have nothing to do. Good job.

There's plenty of incentive to level an alt class. It's the same incentive you have to level a different class in any other MMO + being able to mix and match abilities.

There is a lot to do in this game besides dungeons... did OP level all jobs and classes within a month? You can spend hours on just learning and making Gil..Its fun you get going and realize Oh know I need to go there and mine some more, then go take up leathercrafting :). Anyways when my Gil started getting low I went and did jobs, my character not rich but not a pauper either and teleporting no issue. But if you abuse teleporting and are broke, there were options mounts, chocoporters, ferrys, and air travel that cost less.

No PvP on launch? So what? XI/XIV was always designed as a through and through PvE game.

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Originally Posted by Zer0

anti-pvp rant

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Eve Online, a 10 year old subscription based MMO that is about as pvp centric as it gets, has continued to grow every year since it went live, with a very balanced core mechanic and hands-down the best economic system in a MMO that is orders of magnitudes ahead of everything else, would like to have a word with you :p

Seriously, just because all you've seen are themepark mmo pvp and/or don't enjoy pvp doesn't mean pvp is "terrible" in MMO. Do you realize that when you do that, you are doing the exact same thing as the OP with his anti crafting rant?

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Originally Posted by Zer0

PvP games have notoriously been terrible, both in terms of net money gained by the company and over all player consensus.

PvP games are not popular with a subscription model, they're very complicated and prone to massive imbalances.

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MMORPGs are primarily a failure that can't even fulfil their basic premise of keeping people interested over the long term, games like Minecraft, The Sims, LoL/DOTA2, etc do a better job at that, which is why outside of WoW (and even that is now in decline), you get flop after flop of MMORPG, that even when they start sub based are forced to go F2P because they lose players by the bucketload, whilst a PvP game like LoL has 30 million active accounts a month.

Incidentally, the only MMO other than WoW to actually grow over long periods is EVE Online, a PvP MMO, with a sub.

The MMORPG sector is a stagnant mess, because the largest segment of what is left of its playerbase, are idiots that play for shiny things rather than gameplay, challenge, interaction, etc.

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Originally Posted by Conkers

MMORPGs are primarily a failure that can't even fulfil their basic premise of keeping people interested over the long term, games like Minecraft, The Sims, LoL/DOTA2, etc do a better job at that, which is why outside of WoW (and)

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Many mmo's that people call flops aren't flops. "Not beating wow." isn't a flop. You realize before wow EQ was considered the most successful mmo and a juggernaut with 500,000 active subscribers? FFXI had around the same amount. WoW is an anomaly. Not the norm. An mmo can be profitable at 200,000 players. By definition anything that is "profitable" is not a "flop." It's like I come up with a new company and we make a decent profit. I become a millionaire then go "Well, time to shut down my company. It's a complete failure. Sure, I have millions but there's companies with billions. Guess I need to call it quits."

Look at LOTRO. It was profitable when it went free to play which shocked everyone. It went free to play because their dying game, D&D online, went free to play as a last ditch effort to save it. It became more profitable than it did on it's very release. LOTRO decided, what would happen if we made our successful game free to play? Just because a game goes free to play it really depends on the circumstances. Sometimes it becomes even more profitable.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

No PvP on launch? So what? XI/XIV was always designed as a through and through PvE game.

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I don't understand why people still don't get this.

Crafting in this game is incredibly fun. You obviously haven't spent much time doing it. It's way more complex than the battle system and is incredibly rewarding. I've made countless gil while doing this.

Monsters drop stuff that's worthless to you and worth plenty to other people.

Making gil in this game is super easy. It's not the fault of the game that you're lazy and have no imagination.

Teleportation and repair fees are dirt cheap. And there are MANY alternatives to teleports. Quit being lazy.

No server transfers is not a huge deal. I don't know many other MMOs that have this ready on launch either.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

Seriously, with the way things are progressing. . . ./charlimit

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Just leave man. . .Why do you people feel the need to come on the forums and complain about how much a game sucks when all you have to do is leave. I read somewhere people talking about TERA having more content, um. . .No. . .Tera had B.Temple and Kaprima for a year then it had just 1 dungeon for 2yrs, now it has some PVP junk but it took atleast 3yrs+ to add content and 6months+ in between to patch in stupid fixes to the NA client.

Another 15+ page thread of WhiteKnights vs filthy keyboard commando basement dwellers that obviously have nothing better to do then to sit here and complain about how much a game sucks but somehow still sit there dwelling in that basement playing it. GG

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Originally Posted by Juubi

I can name you a myriad of mmos: Ragnarok Online, Rising Force Online, Tera Online and a dozen more Korean mmos


The White Knights are already defending their masters I see

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You know I was kind of sympathetic to your post until this. Tera didn't have shit to do at end game at launch. I was completely done with everything within 3 weeks. They didn't even have the nexus in which was the ONLY raid of any kind and it was open world so equal to Odin and Bahamut here. That came a month after release.

RO, seriously RO? That was a very long time ago and I can assure you they didn't have end game content at launch either. The only reason that one didn't matter as much was because it took for ever to get to the end game so they had time to launch more.

The others don't even matter ...

Bottom line is that no MMO ever has launched and kept the interest of every hardcore player out there. People will always clear all of the content faster then intended. As for you, how about you go lvl jobs for your cross class skills, finish relic and DL, and then take on coil. Because I'm sure you haven't completed that since no one has.

The game does have issues but not 1 thing you said are any of the issues it has. Call me a "white knight" or w/e you want but in reality these problems are only yours.

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Originally Posted by Neasa

Or do you want the ultimate uber-sword of slaying from a random bunny mob?

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Where do I sign up? :p

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Originally Posted by Reslin

snip

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I didn't mention beating WoW, they are flops because they shed customers by the boatload, are unable to sustain even the minimum numbers to keep on their sub model, and basically fail at their core design of long term play. And no being profitable does not negate being a flop, e.g - someone releases a song, it sells 150 downloads, it makes a "profit", guess what that is a flop.

As for LOTRO, they didn't make more profit than at release, they made 3 times more revenue (not profit) than they were making at tail end of their failed sub model, not than what they were making when the population was still healthy. Since then LOTRO has only gone downhill further, with layoffs and the pop is now nearly back to what it was at end end of sub, just with much less revenue.

P.S - Yes EQ, DAoC, Utlima, etc did well, I mean since WoW and the playerbase has gone to pot, along with the game design that tries to accommodate the terrible playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

No, nor would I want it to be. If I wanted to play a single player game, I’d go play a single player game. There are very different dynamics in play between single and multiplier games, much less MMOs. To judge a multiplier/MMO game on single player game metrics IMO is a terribly biased way of looking at things.

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Because I'm here to be an objective consumer (said nobody ever). Think I care if its biased? Think I'm here to be fair? I'll compare it to opening boxes of cracker jacks if I dang well please. There is no such thing as an objective metric on what makes a good game anyway.

There are, however, games that entertain me (subjective). There are ways to identify amazing games that clearly do well, and one can identify correlatives and even causatives between certain characteristics and that (chiefly financial) success.

FOR ME (subjective), its a very important question; would I play this if it were a single player game?

There are no objective questions to ask.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

Beyond the obviously different experience the two are designed for, there is a social and persistence component that simply doesn’t exist in single player games, and for many people that’s what makes the MMO experience for them. For example, as much as I loved playing Tales of Xillia, I would not give it more than one play-through. Even my all-time favorites of FFT, VC, Xenogears etc, I would be hard-pressed to give them more than a few runs.

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Yeah, I like the social aspect as well. However, the social aspect is 100% irrelevant to whether or not the game itself is crap, or is not.
Do you have wonderful people to play with? Maybe so! Maybe that makes your experience joyful. Does the game suck?

'Well, I have all these amazing people--" BZZT, irrelevant. DOES. THE GAME. SUCK? 'Well, but my friends are--" BZZT. Irrelevant.

Does. The game. Suck? Its you vs the game. Is it fun to play? 'Well I can't answer that if I can't factor for all my friends being there'

So all you really want is a chatroom? Why are you and your friends here, playing this game and not some other game? The game must not suck, yet there's very little I can see that is anything more than mediocre.

'Well, ok, A is boring and B is a grind, but if you have friends, you can--' BZZT, I don't care about your friends and I don't want to hear about how they make a sucky game tolerable; I get it, you enjoy hanging out with your friends and would like to do things with them, even if those things are retarded.

Does. The game. Suck?

If you think yes, why?

If you think no, why?

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

On the other hand, MMOs like Eve Online? It’s a game I would not enjoy playing it if it was a single player game - something like the X3 series, and I find myself getting bored incredibly fast in those. Yet I have immensely enjoyed my 7+ years in Eve, nor do I see myself ever quitting that game until the day it shuts down. The social aspect of the game and the persistent nature of the world turn what would’ve been a meaningless action in a single player game to something that actually matters in the online world – when I blow a ship up, it’s no longer just some pixels and numbers on my own PC, it’s someone else’s prized pixels and numbers :p

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So the game sucks, but you like hanging out with your friends and only perceive meaning in your in-game actions if someone else acknowledges them, chiefly by suffering? Sanctioned sociopathy. /thumbsup.jpg

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

In some ways this is also seen in brutal sandboxes like Eve vs theme parks like ARR and WoW, we often get risk-averse players coming in Eve wondering why there isn’t guaranteed safety in high security space, to them the idea that one can be destroyed anytime, anywhere if someone else wanted to bad enough to be terrible. To us however, that makes the action you take in game actually meaningful, as you actually have something worthwhile on the line in a fight. IMO, you seem to be even further down on the scale.

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Most of those people probably wanted a neat game in space to play and instead found crazy sociopaths and a game that sucks if you have no friends to distract you from the game being boring as banging two rocks together.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

That is purely a matter of opinion, not objective fact. I’d rather play minesweeper than WoW.

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WoW proves itself to be a good game to play along many objective metrics. Here's one; it lost more players than FFXIV has ever had or (almost certainly) will ever have and STILL has close to ten million active subs. Hallmark of a bad game? Must be. /bizarrelogic.jpg

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

To me it just sounds like what you really want is a single player game with online components, rather than an actual MMO. That’s fine, but frankly IMO you’re looking at the wrong genre if that’s the type of game you’re looking for.

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Bzzt, you have guessed poorly. I like MMO's in general. Gear treadmills, I despise because its the rat everyone keeps boiling for the increasingly watery stew that nobody was honestly enjoying in the first place. Increasing numbers of people are admitting that the treadmills themselves are not fun and the whole appeal is to get that sense of completion/satisfaction/achievement/e-peen bragging rights when they finally make it.

Unfortunately for the MMO industry, its so easy to do gear treadmills that virtually everyone has done it absolutely to death, and even the most monosyllabic mental midget that has difficulty outwitting fenceposts are getting sick and tired of them.

I have single player games. I have a whole backlog I have to get around to playing still, and that's grand. I also like replaying the classics.

Online components in single player? Ehh, that didn't work out so well with Fable 3. Nice gimmick, ultimately pointless. Nah. I like my single player games the way I like my ice cream; not with your (ubiquitous, non-specific 'your') face anywhere near it.

Multiplayer? I'd do somewhat absurd things and spend obscene sums of money for the ability to have multiplayer in Skyrim, yes. But Bethesda is also insanely stupid and can't possibly give us multiplayer Elder Scrolls.

And then there are these Final Fantasy MMO's that seem to have nothing to do with any final fantasy game ever. Tiny pieces of a fun game have been shotgun sprayed into this ball of grind, and I'd like to play that fun game. However, even if you take all the pieces, subtract the grind and put them together in order, you don't have a fun game.

But you are right on one point; I'm looking in the wrong genre for what I want.

Because what I want is simple: I'd like to play a good Final Fantasy MMO. That sort of thing, sadly, does not exist.

Its funny though. You speak as though there's a certain lockstepped form that an MMO must take to be an MMO. The only requirement is that it be massively multi-player.

'Suck' is not required. It'll be amazing when some developing studio figures out that their game doesn't have to be sucky, painful and generally an exercise in balancing frustrations to play in order to be an MMO.

Today is clearly not that day.

I write this post in a larger font size. That makes what I'm saying more true.

Even back in the before times, when there was nothing to do except level to 20 and spam Tam-Tara, I was still finding so much to do.

If you can't find anything to do in this game, you aren't looking hard enough.

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Originally Posted by Millerna

You're on Balmung though, there's ALWAYS fun to be had on Balmung ;)

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'struth. ^_^

all these people who expected so much more are disappointed. no surprise.

From a 1.0 players perspective, this game has a lot more to offer than it did in 1.0. The issue is that the vast majority of players continued to play in 1.0 for their friends and community. Hamlets, speed runs, and ifrit extreme were pretty much all there was to do...Now the typical MMO gamer who hops to the next big thing and has the attention span of a three year old has shown up, proclaims they have beaten the game and proceeds to say how bad it is.

Go ahead and be a naysayer and say the game will fail or is failing because of this or that. In the end, a large majority of 1.0 players will continue to play ARR and enjoy it...some of us were already fine with paying a monthly fee back then anyway.

This thread is still going? All the points in it have been made and addressed and everyone arguing for OP clearly can't read or has a different problem with the game.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

I write this post in a larger font size. That makes what I'm saying more true.

Even back in the before times, when there was nothing to do except level to 20 and spam Tam-Tara, I was still finding so much to do.

If you can't find anything to do in this game, you aren't looking hard enough.

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You're on Balmung though, there's ALWAYS fun to be had on Balmung ;)

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Originally Posted by Conkers

P.S - Yes EQ, DAoC, Utlima, etc did well, I mean since WoW.

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What games do you consider a success? Mmo wise? I said what I said because I thought you had implied that no game other than wow was a success. Do you consider FFXI a success? It did maintain a subscription through and through. Also kept it's population of 500,000 for a very very long time. I think this game can be at least as successful as FFXI.

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Originally Posted by aswedishtiger

CM AK CM AK CM AK CM AK

yep pretty much 2!!! well 1 if you're capped on mythology. nice fail try though!

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Ummm this is a FF MMO, being social is supposed to be a huge part of the experience and the building of lasting memories and friendships. Part of that is done via helping FC mates and friends run all of these endgame fights, and not just doing them a few times to get your weapon/gear.

The way I see it, the above mentioned dungeons and primals all count as endgame and can be run many times before they are "played out".

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Originally Posted by Juubi

sorry to tell you this but a majority of mmo players don't waste time on something as mundane as crafting

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You're high if you think this, at least when it comes to this game. There's a CRAP TON of crafters around. Maybe not as much as battle classes, but I can go out and mindlessly grind x mob, only to see crafters outside crafting and gatherers gathering. This game doesn't properly reward those aspects of play just yet, but for what it does offer, crafting in this game is fun and can be rather complicated. In other games I play, it's more or less a side thing. This game has actual classes dedicated to a craft. I feel you are very wrong here, time to take off the doomsayer googles.

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Originally Posted by Meleoffs

This thread is still going? All the points in it have been made and addressed and everyone arguing for OP clearly can't read or has a different problem with the game.

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It's amusing that the problems of FFXIV:ARR are being treated by White Knights as a non-issue, it's either mind-blindness or blatant denial of the obvious.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

It's amusing that the problems of FFXIV:ARR are being treated by White Knights as a non-issue, it's either mind-blindness or blatant denial of the obvious.

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Do you wear clown shoes? I know someone who can get a good pair for you, because you are definitely a clown.

Seeing you haven't explored ALL of the endgame content and don't have Coil on farm status then I'd say you still have work to do to experience the rest of the content...
THe trash that you bitch about from mobs....it's actually very profitable in the hands of someone with more than a 6th grade education...
PvP in this game is not necessary and will probably always be an afterthought. You want PvP go play GW2....
Also a lot of "real" MMO players do "waste time" crafting, because they see the inherent benefit in selling the items and keeping up their funds. Not to mention it's a break from the grind....

Imo, this is your typical MMO that has or had nothing new to offer.
It really doesn't.
I know opinions are just that but why bash the guy when he says something? Most of you always do this.
I hate the "You should pick up crafting or level your other classes."
Some people do not like crafting, some people don't want to FATE grind their asses to 50 because of boring ZERG zone FATE's that don't even load.
It PAINS me to level boring ACN to be a much-wanted SCH because I hate grinding to and from FATE's...
Yoshi said there is not much ways to make Gil in it, he admited it. You must craft or Sell Tome whatevers to earn gil.
Soooo at 50 there's the gil. After you get your Relic/AF and crap, time to spam the same dungeons 13 million times to get some gil.
Open your eyes folks. I didn't rush either, I like my WHM now but I agree with Mapleine, this game needs some variety.
It has to stand out other than being Generic MMO, with Final Fantasy slapped up across it too. I'm not going to leave
but I don't want this game to go down the gutters. Hope for good things here. So you can really see how the game will go down in the next few patches.
Some people already left because the game is boring, and that's fine. I'm going to wait to see some turn of events. I want to make this game my home MMO for once in my life so yeah.
http://i2.wp.com/awesomegifs.com/wp-...size=245%2C175

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Originally Posted by Chrysania

The main story attempts to do this. A lot of the grind in the first half of the game is, in fact, a-ok. A lot of Final Fantasy games found one running around in circles on the overworld map, beating up monsters a bit more often than was strictly necessary, because you WANTED a few more levels and more gil and to build up more points on this, or get that job up some, etc, etc, etc.
But you were never forced to. I can't think of a single Final Fantasy game where I was ever once forced to run around in circles and mindlessly farm random encounters to get to and beat the end boss. I also can't think of a Final Fantasy wherein which I didn't want to do every farking thing there was, because it was all neat.

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This is the only part I want to reply to. This tells me you have never played a FF game.

You are pretty much forced to grind in order to beat the game in every FF that has ever released.

If you want 1 specific example, the original version of FFIV, before it was nerfed for the US. I remember spending 3-4 hours running around in circles right outside the first town so I could hit level 10. If you tried to do the very first dungeon in that game below level 10, your chances of survival were around 10%. You had to stay outside the first town, because Tents were so expensive, it was cheaper to: 1. fight 1 or 2 battles 2. run into town to use the inn 3. repeat.

You were REQUIRED to run in circles killing stuff to advance the game. Grinding has NEVER been optional in FF games.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

It's amusing that the problems of FFXIV:ARR are being treated by White Knights as a non-issue, it's either mind-blindness or blatant denial of the obvious.

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Also crafting in other MMOs has always been something most people maxed out for the inherent stat bonuses/special items that they could obtain....i.e. WoW with specific stats from harvesting, items specifcally usable by the crafter to min/max stats for raiding to name one example...

You obviously have never been a hardcore MMOer or you'd have at least caught on to that one...bobo the wonder clown.

I can't imagine how the OP is bored when he hasn't even leveled Archer to 4 for Raging Strikes or THM to 26 for Swiftcast. Just because you hit 50 doesn't mean you have all your essential skills. Also, I'm a little confused as to how you can complain about lack of endgame content when you've most likely never beaten Garuda, never beaten Titan, and never stepped foot in the actual endgame dungeon.

As far as PvP goes, there's not much to complain about at this point. The Wolves Den, where the PvP will take place, is already in game and can be visited (with the NPC's just giving "come back later" dialog). They are delaying PvP because dropping you into PvP with your PvE skillsets/gear would be a disaster. Would you rather they just allow PvP using current stats so your SMN can get face-rolled by every DRG/MNK/BRD/BLM?

Also, do you understand how silly it is to complain about a lack of money while not touching either the gathering OR crafting classes?