The Monk Temple

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Interesting.

That being said, ultimately I tested it myself to my own satisfaction and didn't see a decrease of any kind. In fact I saw a slight increase.

I would at the very least say it's enough to discourage any budding MNKs from buying the Melee Cyclas at all if they haven't yet, and instead getting the Fuma Body and saving themselves the ~800 myth.

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Yea, and I sort of support the Fuma as a stand-in piece particularly since the BiS also has no accuracy as well.
800 myth is a lot if you're just gearing up.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Yea, and I sort of support the Fuma as a stand-in piece particularly since the BiS also has no accuracy as well.
800 myth is a lot if you're just gearing up.

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The Allagan Cuirass has accuracy.

on a straight gear vs gear comparison, given stat weights, Fuma is a wash at worst (and may even be a slight increase) with both Melee Cyclas and Allagan Curiass in any fight where you don't need to offload the lost Acc from using it in place of either (meaning, fights outside of Coil) other chest piece.

the Melee Cyclas is really good for substituting in better Allagan stuff in other slots and still being Acc capped for Coil, though. I wouldn't call the piece nonessential if you have a lot of Allagan Coil drops.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Interesting.

That being said, ultimately I tested it myself to my own satisfaction and didn't see a decrease of any kind. In fact I saw a slight increase.

I would at the very least say it's enough to discourage any budding MNKs from buying the Melee Cyclas at all if they haven't yet, and instead getting the Fuma Body and saving themselves the ~800 myth.

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This has been my result after testing as well, Fuma gives you an increase on DPS.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The Allagan Cuirass has accuracy.

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My life is a lie.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

My life is a lie.

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you aren't the only one! until a couple days ago i thought it had det with the crit, i was surprised when i realized it had acc

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

My life is a lie.

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Originally Posted by hamsteak

you aren't the only one! until a couple days ago i thought it had det with the crit, i was surprised when i realized it had acc

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I won't lie... I did at some point, too. I guess it was easy for the mind to pair it together with the Allagan Baghnakhs as being Det+Crit pieces both from Turn 5.

It's a tough patch every MNK goes through I feel like. As one who overcame this struggle earlier than you gentlemen, I offer you both my shoulder to cry on. Let the healing begin.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Interesting.

That being said, ultimately I tested it myself to my own satisfaction and didn't see a decrease of any kind. In fact I saw a slight increase.

I would at the very least say it's enough to discourage any budding MNKs from buying the Melee Cyclas at all if they haven't yet, and instead getting the Fuma Body and saving themselves the ~800 myth.

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I'm not sure I would support this. The fuma piece probably does squeak past melee body so long as you can hit whatever you are punching. But remember Allagan pants drop in T1 which is a major accuracy loss. You wont be able to use them both, so I think people starting coil still need to invest in the melee body 1st.

But you could go with the same logic and say get the pants first.

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Originally Posted by Size

I'm not sure I would support this. The fuma piece probably does squeak past melee body so long as you can hit whatever you are punching. But remember Allagan pants drop in T1 which is a major accuracy loss. You wont be able to use them both, so I think people starting coil still need to invest in the melee body 1st.

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Unlike the Melee Cyclas, the Melee Gaskins actually are BiS... so it would make sense to spend that myth on the pants rather than the body...

There is currently no logical reason to buy a Melee Cyclas unless you find yourself in a position where you're really hurting for accuracy even after getting the Gaskins. Even then it's painful to watch.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Unlike the Melee Cyclas, the Melee Gaskins actually are BiS... so it would make sense to spend that myth on the pants rather than the body...

There is currently no logical reason to buy a Melee Cyclas unless you find yourself in a position where you're really hurting for accuracy even after getting the Gaskins. Even then it's painful to watch.

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that's the situation a lot of Monks will run into once they start getting Coil drops, though. Allagan armor doesn't provide Accuracy (chest piece aside) and only the Maiming accessories will help you.

it's the unfortunate result of all Monk accuracy being available only from 4 armor pieces for 3 slots (and 1 is a Turn 5 drop).

I did some testing with the Fuma chest/Melee pants and Melee chest/Allagan pants to satisfy my curiosity as well (I have no luck in the months of running Coil so I don't have a lot of BiS pieces). So in my current gear setup swapping between those two combinations my maximum DPS was almost the same. However, between different parses and with the range of DPS I'd get the Melee chest/Allagan pants were closer to the maximum I'd get more consistently. Parses generally around 4 minutes until I start to run dry on TP.

With that being said for others I'd recommend getting the Fuma chest/Melee pants because the difference is so nominal and it'll help your pool of myth to play with unless you are just in dire need of accuracy. I'm sure there's other out there like me that have run Coil for a good long while and almost never see monk loot.

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

I did some testing with the Fuma chest/Melee pants and Melee chest/Allagan pants to satisfy my curiosity as well (I have no luck in the months of running Coil so I don't have a lot of BiS pieces). So in my current gear setup swapping between those two combinations my maximum DPS was almost the same. However, between different parses and with the range of DPS I'd get the Melee chest/Allagan pants were closer to the maximum I'd get more consistently. Parses generally around 4 minutes until I start to run dry on TP.

With that being said for others I'd recommend getting the Fuma chest/Melee pants because the difference is so nominal and it'll help your pool of myth to play with unless you are just in dire need of accuracy. I'm sure there's other out there like me that have run Coil for a good long while and almost never see monk loot.

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i've been hoping every week for the visor/belt/boots to drop... none of it ever does ;_;

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Originally Posted by hamsteak

i've been hoping every week for the visor/belt/boots to drop... none of it ever does ;_;

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Over 3 months with no visor drop.....

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I won't lie... I did at some point, too. I guess it was easy for the mind to pair it together with the Allagan Baghnakhs as being Det+Crit pieces both from Turn 5.

It's a tough patch every MNK goes through I feel like. As one who overcame this struggle earlier than you gentlemen, I offer you both my shoulder to cry on. Let the healing begin.

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Haha, thanks Noctis.

Would just like to add, as an endgame raider who isn't a big number cruncher, thank you guys for all the theorycrafting and discussion surrounding our job!

I always love to find new ways to do my job better and this thread has certainly helped with that. So keep punching away and lets remind everyone that Monk dps is best dps.

How about the Melee feet compared to Allagan. Previously these were identical but since have changed from Crit to Det. I have the Allagan feet, but would it be better to go Melee feet for the crit? I know Det is good for AA but crits really seem to be our best form of damage. Any info/advice on this would be great.

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Originally Posted by KaosPrimeZero

How about the Melee feet compared to Allagan. Previously these were identical but since have changed from Crit to Det. I have the Allagan feet, but would it be better to go Melee feet for the crit? I know Det is good for AA but crits really seem to be our best form of damage. Any info/advice on this would be great.

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Det >> Crit. The Allagan Sollerets vs the Melee Boots are a no brainer win for Allagan. Not only are you exchanging Crit for Det (point for point mind you) but you're doing it at the cost of Skill Speed, which is the least effective stat. It's not even a discussion that Allagan Sollerets are better :)

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Det >> Crit. The Allagan Sollerets vs the Melee Boots are a no brainer win for Allagan. Not only are you exchanging Crit for Det (point for point mind you) but you're doing it at the cost of Skill Speed, which is the least effective stat. It's not even a discussion that Allagan Sollerets are better :)

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Thanks for confirming that for me. Now if only the Allagan belt and hands would drop today..... The visor will likely never drop lol

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Originally Posted by KaosPrimeZero

Thanks for confirming that for me. Now if only the Allagan belt and hands would drop today..... The visor will likely never drop lol

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Well the good news is, if it doesn't fall in the next 4~6 weeks, you'll be able to farm and get it in like a day once the next update hits.

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Originally Posted by Size

Well the good news is, if it doesn't fall in the next 4~6 weeks, you'll be able to farm and get it in like a day once the next update hits.

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isnt the 2.16 that come in 4-6week?the weekly restriction of coil is on the 2.2 patch and probably wont come until few more months.

edit:nvm,just read the *letter from the producer Q/A* and they said 2.2 might come in march.

2.2 is supposed to drop in "March," so 6 weeks could be accurate.

P.S. Between beginning my Coil career in PUGs, and running with a static, then building my own FC group, I've seen 34 Coil drops on my main character and have never received a single piece of Allagan loot. I feel that pain immensely.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

2.2 is supposed to drop in "March," so 6 weeks could be accurate.

P.S. Between beginning my Coil career in PUGs, and running with a static, then building my own FC group, I've seen 34 Coil drops on my main character and have never received a single piece of Allagan loot. I feel that pain immensely.

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Then there will come a night where you run coil and suddenly all turns drop MNK loot.










This night will be the first night of farming Turns 1-5 once the lockout has been removed.

What do people think about the new stat weights put forward by EasymodeX in this post?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1761108

Following those, you'd end up with BiS being:

(Pre-T5): http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LQOP

(Post-T5): http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/LMO7

The weird part about this is that he values skill speed almost as highly as crit. EasymodeX, how did you arrive at those numbers?

How's that strange? For Monk I'd value skill speed higher than crit, actually. Crit has diminishing returns and Skill Speed has increased returns, so the more of both you have, the better skill speed is. Combine with Infernal Release and Bootshine lessening crit's effect even more and it should be an obvious conclusion. The softcap I'd place at 2.00 on 3 greased lightning stacks because when you go lower than that, you lose dps while using skills that are off GCD.


Furthermore, I've noticed that with very low, minimal skill speed like in your sets, I actually cannot use 5 skills after Perfect Balance, at least while using non-GCD skills in between them. That's why in you post-T5 BiS list at least, I definitely would swap Hero's Necklace of Slaying with Allagan Choker of Striking and Allagan Tassets of Striking with Hero's Belt of Striking, giving you 32 more skill speed and 32 less crit. Probably can do similiar swaps all around, because I just don't see how crit could possibly be better than skill speed for monk. Bootshine takes approximately 1/6.666 of your GCDs so at least 15% of your crit for your skill damage is 100% wasted(or was it 1/6.333? Either way...).

Here's my rotation so if anyone is interested on it.

TOD (Touch of death) - Impulsive Drive(from DRG) - Bootshine - True strike - Demolish 1ST Rotation
Fracture (from MRD) - Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch 2ND Rotation
Impusilve Drive - Bootshine - True Strike - Demolish 3RD Rotation
Fracture (from MRD) - Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch 4TH Rotation
Then repeat all rotaion :)

Here's the thing this works good especiialy when you have your GS3 already as you don't need to put up TOD as much as Fracture cause TOD has 30 sec effect on the enemy.
Hopefully this helps other :) Btw on your GS1 and GS2 its up to you if you want to put up TOD. Btw I always use this rotation on Titan so I think its quite effective :D

PS: You should move the moment you use Snap punch as the animation is quite long XD but it still works if you even if you watch it.

This is a very bad rotation. The impulse drive makes absolutely no sense, wasting your TP and delaying your stack application. Furthermore, you randomly use True Strike before Twin Snakes in the first rotation - this makes no sense. You can just use Twin Snakes for a second time if you want to combine it with Dragon Kick, that still does more damage. Third, you use Fracture. Fourth, you apply Demolish and Fracture before they tick the full duration. Fifth, when you reapply Touch of Death with this rotation, you will miss one GCD worth of Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes uptime.

Generally you want to wait with dots until GL3 is up, although I tend to use Demolish for the GL2>3 transition.
Aside from that with the True strike update in 2.1 Impulse drve has become quite useless as you're throwing away 70 TP for 180 potency against 190 Potency for only 50 TP.

The rest is covered by Shayuki above me.

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Originally Posted by Shayuki

This is a very bad rotation. The impulse drive makes absolutely no sense, wasting your TP and delaying your stack application. Furthermore, you randomly use True Strike before Twin Snakes in the first rotation - this makes no sense. You can just use Twin Snakes for a second time if you want to combine it with Dragon Kick, that still does more damage. Third, you use Fracture. Fourth, you apply Demolish and Fracture before they tick the full duration. Fifth, when you reapply Touch of Death with this rotation, you will miss one GCD worth of Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes uptime.

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Look the Impulse Drive is just a preference. You can put it away if you don't want it I'm not implying it to everyone to use it. For your information I can still do everything without missing any uptime and Fracture is for increase of DoT.

I actually like making Demolish the first Coeurl form skill that I use, the base damage still is 310 and the duration ticks out just after you gain your third greased lightning stack. Demolish(GL1) -> Snap(GL2) -> Snap(GL3) -> Demolish(fully ticked and buffed by GL3).

I don't see any reason to ever use Snap Punch for the first Coeurl move due to this.

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Originally Posted by buckler173

Look the Impulse Drive is just a preference. You can put it away if you don't want it I'm not implying it to everyone to use it. For your information I can still do everything without missing any uptime and Fracture is for increase of DoT.

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You prefer dealing lower damage? I prefer dealing higher damage. I guess that's preference.

The rest of your post makes no sense. That's not possible.

Unless you confuse "missing no uptime" with clipping in which case you actually are wasting 2 ticks of the DoT every rotation.

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Originally Posted by Shayuki

I actually like making Demolish the first Coeurl form skill that I use, the base damage still is 310 and the duration ticks out just after you gain your third greased lightning stack. Demolish(GL1) -> Snap(GL2) -> Snap(GL3) -> Demolish(fully ticked and buffed by GL3).

I don't see any reason to ever use Snap Punch for the first Coeurl move due to this.

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Interesting.
Aside from that, I may have missed the memo somewhere, but why is it bad to use Fracture?

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Originally Posted by buckler173

Look the Impulse Drive is just a preference. You can put it away if you don't want it I'm not implying it to everyone to use it. For your information I can still do everything without missing any uptime and Fracture is for increase of DoT.

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No it is not a preference, you are throwing away 70 TP on a skill that does less damage than one that costs 50 TP.
Shayuki is not the only one saying your rotation is bad.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

Interesting.
Aside from that, I may have missed the memo somewhere, but why is it bad to use Fracture?



No it is not a preference, you are throwing away 70 TP on a skill that does less damage then one that costs 50 TP.
Shayuki is not the only one saying your rotation is bad.

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Well, it's not that Fracture is bad to use period but it needs to be used at very specific times.

If you do your normal rotation and you reapply Touch of Death, if you use Fracture as well during that rotation, you will miss one GCD of Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes, as said before(Unless you skip Bootshine and True Strike but that's a huge dps loss as well). It also costs 80 TP. It's situational.

I guess that rotation isn't a gigantic DPS loss though, mostly it's extremely TP-inefficient but maybe a 6-8% loss?

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Originally Posted by Shayuki

Well, it's not that Fracture is bad to use period but it needs to be used at very specific times.

If you do your normal rotation and you reapply Touch of Death, if you use Fracture as well during that rotation, you will miss one GCD of Dragon Kick and Twin Snakes, as said before(Unless you skip Bootshine and True Strike but that's a huge dps loss as well). It also costs 80 TP. It's situational.

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Ah, I see what you mean.
My rotations have been set up in such a way that I do not lose DK/TwS, apart from that, if TP becomes an issue I stop using it.

I'll leave it out tonight and look at the parse results.

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Originally Posted by Shayuki

I guess that rotation isn't a gigantic DPS loss though, mostly it's extremely TP-inefficient but maybe a 6-8% loss?

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Um... 6 to 8% DPS loss is something I do consider gigantic.

I'm open for advice and help so I don't miind the opinions, although it bugs me why Fracture is bad?

I actually have a question about Demolish. Since it's more powerful than Snap Punch if allowed to run for a bit, why not use it to get the first stack of GL?

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I actually have a question about Demolish. Since it's more powerful than Snap Punch if allowed to run for a bit, why not use it to get the first stack of GL?

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I'm a fresh 50 but I think we use it for that reason:

1. maximize its dmg with 3rd stack of GL
2. when we have all buff AND dots up we use IR+B2B so if we sued it as first we would have less up time of demolish and we can't use our 3 best dmg dealer skills (which that don't give us any buff) while buff and adrenals up, so it would be a dps loss.

Btw this is nice 3d but it misses something..I'm an experienced player of swtor and theorycrafter (not a deep one) and I have a guide about my main class on a forum and it would be nice if you update first post like i did with a general guide (rotation, Bis stats, etc) because if there will be a patch that change some skills and we need to update our rotation it will be mad to find on the last pages..instead to see just 1 update post here AND see the discussion here at last pages.
Can you do that? we can discuss about what to write and the OP can edit it, or easyX (that seems one of the better theorycrafter/player here can create a new one like "Monk Guide Class" where to discuss about specific things and hold this 3d to more general things..

my5cents

(sorry for second post...wtf limit chars?)

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Originally Posted by buckler173

I'm open for advice and help so I don't miind the opinions, although it bugs me why Fracture is bad?

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I'd like to know this too :P Cause i attach it to my rotation when using Demolish > Fracture > ToD and get all 3 up initially then reapply 2 as they are falling off etc and then demolish again unless im over thinking this which i maybe as im at work and shouldnt be strollin gon here lol

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Originally Posted by KaosPrimeZero

I'd like to know this too :P Cause i attach it to my rotation when using Demolish > Fracture > ToD and get all 3 up initially then reapply 2 as they are falling off etc and then demolish again unless im over thinking this which i maybe as im at work and shouldnt be strollin gon here lol

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On long fights, if we use it we will have a TP problem EARLIER so we cut the lowest potency skill == fracture in this case (calculted by easyX)

to see that easier: DPSLoss (TP problem) > DPSLoss (not using fracture)

I have a question about OPENER in Perfect balance.

I read 2/3 ways to do and there are 2 that are "interesting":

Skills: PB -> 2xSnap Punch -> Demolish -> Twin Snakes -> Dragon Kick -> ToD
Buffs/Debuffs: GL1 -> GL2 -> GL3 (1°DoT) -> %dmgIncr -> BluntDebuff -> (2°DoT)

or

Skills: PB -> 2xSnap Punch -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish -> Dragon Kick -> ToD
Buffs/Debuffs: GL1 -> GL2 -> %dmgIncr -> GL3 (1°DoT) -> BluntDebuff -> (2°DoT)

I'd like to use the first sequence cause I'd like to have asap GL3 (easier to use DK in perfect balance) but with second sequence we have a better maximized Demolish (maybe negligible) what do you think about?

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Originally Posted by Inox

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I did some really quick and potentially completely wrong maths but the second set seems better.

Assuming nothing else after these, and ignoring ToD too because its the same potency on both rotations I got this:

2x Snap > Demo > Twin > DK = 1188.8 potency = 180 + (180 * 1.09) + (310 * 1.18) + (190 * 1.27) + (150*1.37)
2x Snap > Twin > Demo > DK = 1202.7 potency = 180 + (180 * 1.09) + (190 * 1.18) + (310 * 1.28) + (150 * 1.37)

Not the greatest maths but I think its correct in saying the second one wins.

It is incredibly ignorant of anything outside of it, it may be worse due to the overlapping point of Demolish, so take it with a pinch of salt.

Edit: Helps when I use the correct maths rather than just make numbers up. Second one is still better but the numbers were wrong.

2x Snap > Demo > Twin > DK = 1125.3 potency = 180 + (180 * 1.09) + (310 * 1.18) + (140 * 1.27) + (150*1.37)
2x Snap > Twin > Demo > DK = 1143.7 potency = 180 + (180 * 1.09) + (140 * 1.18) + (310 * 1.28) + (150 * 1.37)

Same thing as above still applies though