Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

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Originally Posted by Midare

So, I haven't finished the msq yet, but I had a bit of an Epiphany.
I could go on and on about why she's not an interesting character and, from what I've seen while not trying to spoil myself, it seems a lot of people got most things covered.
But my epiphany was that she reminds me of this character.

https://i.imgur.com/wlwHg5i.jpeg

I feel like someone walked into the meeting sometime and went "Whenever Wuk Lamat is not in screen, all the other characters should be asking: Where is Wuk Lamat?"

Wuk Lamat is the Poochie of FFXIV so far for me.

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Nah, Poochie had the decency to go back to his home planet and "tragically" die along the way.

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Originally Posted by Ayalu

Well i did enjoy Lamati and the DT MSQ overall :)
Cant say anything of her english voice as i play in german (the german forum is dead so i write here) and while i wasnt that fond of ther voice originaly it grew on me and she did deliver a realy good performance....it probably helps that in german we dont do accents, which is probably easier for the actors. From what i gathered her english voiceactress stuggled with it?

But yeah i can imagine if one vibes with Wuk Lamat the story feels way better than when one dislikes her and is forces to like her.
Similar threads happen for other character where the game forces us to like them - Emet Selch comes to mind.

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You are right that the story reception is dependent on how one likes her.
The comparison to Emet Selch is not really true though.
He wasn’t glued to our butt 24/7, he was the villain and he had interesting lorebombs instead of “peace and tacos uwu”
People like him because he is a complex character.
Wuk Lamat has no complexity. She ends as she starts and has no real struggles.
Anyone remember the bird that just so appears to attack the giants before she has to fight them and only attacks them?
Yeah that was artificial so that she won’t have her ideals challenged.
Or the obvious favoritism in the cooking trial for her.

Emet didn’t have that.
He was an ass with a heart of gold and the characters in the game were crapping on him even after shadowbringers. Even in EW his flaw to not listen to us and his arrogance in the unsundered world is bought forth.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

Can y'all stop injecting this culture war BS into every thread. Maybe keep to the VA thread instead of contaminating this thread. The more you keep spamming this nonsense the worse you make everyone else look.

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Agreed. I don’t care for her voice actor or who they are.
Keep it in the right thread.
This one her is for the character Wuk Lamat.

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Originally Posted by ViaDesperare

I've already gathered a lot of evidence in the Voice thread about why Wuk's voice is so lacking. People aren't transphobic for not liking her, we've criticized her acting because she can't scream in the vocal range she uses for Wuk Lamat and the evidence is in the below tweet.

https://i.imgur.com/7NzLr2n.png

The Latin American, Hispanic, side don't like her because her accent is a terrible representation for them. For a prominent character MC lead for FFXIV, it's shameful that they go what ended up as a fake accent that breaks into an American one during voice dialogues. She herself agrees, if she can't fulfill the requirement for the role then it means she's not fit for the role.

https://i.imgur.com/K5VRnqC.png

If you're thinking it's because the VA is trans, it's not and highly likely that the VA is terrible person for attacking another VA, or in general all white and cis VAs nonstop, on twitter. In her own words, it can't be hate-targeting and you have to accept that.

https://i.imgur.com/hJT8jcA.png

https://i.imgur.com/oe5363l.png

In terms of writing, everyone has already said what was bad with Wuk Lamat. The character is written like as if someone saw clips of Naruto. She lacks what makes Naruto lovable, like the underdog trope where everyone hated him, and he was a total loser who had to work hard to earn his respect from his own village which he got after the Pain Arc. Wuk barely grows and just talks about friendship and tradition, and then instead of saving Zoraal Ja she aims to kill him. Naruto reached out his hand to Sasuke, and brought his first friend, who he saw as a brother because Naruto didn't grow up with a family, back.

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Can y'all stop injecting this culture war BS into every thread. Maybe keep to the VA thread instead of contaminating this thread. The more you keep spamming this nonsense the worse you make everyone else look.

The dominant discourse is now turning into "FF14 is getting review bombed and hated because of transphobia" because of people like you who can't help but bring in irrelevant nonsense into every single thread.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

I will not, especially when I have personally seen a GREAT amount of transphobia surrounding the character and her English VA. Especially now that certain figures have attached themselves to the whole thing, there is a substantial amount of people who dislike the character for no reason other than their favorite internet personality said to for transphobic or other asinine reasons.

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And people like you too. Grasping at straws to counter any criticism. 99% of the criticism about Wuk Lamat doesn't even concern the voice acting.

Gamergate is truly the worst thing that happened to video gaming. You can't even make one tiny post without it being flooded with people more invested in culture wars than the actual game itself.

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Originally Posted by Seirikka

jesus christ and this has single-handedly convinced me to switch to the JP dub

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my rule in videogame usually if the game made by jp then i will switch to jp voice. they put more "feel" into it

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

You are right that the story reception is dependent on how one likes her.
The comparison to Emet Selch is not really true though.
He wasn’t glued to our butt 24/7, he was the villain and he had interesting lorebombs instead of “peace and tacos uwu”
People like him because he is a complex character.
Wuk Lamat has no complexity. She ends as she starts and has no real struggles.
Anyone remember the bird that just so appears to attack the giants before she has to fight them and only attacks them?
Yeah that was artificial so that she won’t have her ideals challenged.
Or the obvious favoritism in the cooking trial for her.

Emet didn’t have that.
He was an ass with a heart of gold and the characters in the game were crapping on him even after shadowbringers. Even in EW his flaw to not listen to us and his arrogance in the unsundered world is bought forth.

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I also liked Emet Selch but i saw a thread in the Forums were people who disliked Emet felt very forced to interact with him in a non-adversary way.
That reminded me of that. Of course Wuk Lamat is way more present then Emet but as leader of a State her future invovlment surely will be more limted similar to other Nation Leader Characters :)

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Originally Posted by Aniise

That's not all, she is outright deflecting any form of criticism. Her twitter bubble loves her, so what gives. Who needs other opinions if you get only positive feedback and shut out all the other voices, even when your work was clearly subpar. /shrug


https://i.imgur.com/LYz9hTH.png

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Not going to lie, I can't wait until Wuk gets Lysed and then the twitter VA can fade back into obscurity she came from. Twitter makes people completely delusional. She truly believes the entirety of a Japanese MMORPG revolves around her irrelevant persona. When a good majority of the player base do not use English voice acting and have literally no idea who she even is.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

I think the most telling thing is that so few defenders of the expansion actually defend the game or even engage the criticism, it's just immediate personal insults about "whiners" half the time.

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It's been this way since ShB, but at least back then people can come up with some half-credible nonsense like "it's impossible to balance and make jobs fun at the same time!"

Now there is not even the pretense.

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Originally Posted by BakoolJaJa

Not going to lie, I can't wait until Weak Lmao gets Lysed and then the twitter VA can fade back into obscurity she came from. Twitter makes people completely delusional. She truly believes the entirety of a Japanese MMORPG revolves around her irrelevant persona. When a good majority of the player base do not use English voice acting and have literally no idea who she even is.

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I wish I could go back to a time where I didn't know that the VA for Wuk Lyse was just as intolerable as the character and her voice acting. Take me back to Endwalker, please.

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Originally Posted by Aniise

That's not all, she is outright deflecting any form of criticism. Her twitter bubble loves her, so what gives. Who needs other opinions if you get only positive feedback and shut out all the other voices, even when your work was clearly subpar. /shrug


https://i.imgur.com/LYz9hTH.png

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So many people there sucking the v/a's ass. Mostly for social brownie points I imagine.

They did a bad job, regardless of who they are.

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Originally Posted by Ayalu

Well Wuk Lamat was the counterpart to the Boss so it makes sense to include her. I certainly thought it was cool....but then again i wasn able to play much anyway as the two tank soloed the trial after the team went down at 60% health. xD
So it atleast became more interessting at that point.

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I don't agree, they've tried to replicate Gaia and Ryne (and that one made sense because Gaia and Ryne had opposing elements) but it didn't work.

Wuk Lamat should not have that power level at all, we're saying she's topping Estinien which is completely absurd.
If it was a scene where her voice reached Sphene it would be okay, breaking through dimensions is not.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

Anyone remember the bird that just so appears to attack the giants before she has to fight them and only attacks them?
Yeah that was artificial so that she won’t have her ideals challenged.
Or the obvious favoritism in the cooking trial for her.

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This and then the father of Bakool Ja Ja just immediately changing his ways after an untold number of years of of sticking to the culture to the point of banishing his own son, all on only a chance of some new seeds working. Everything seems shoe horned as to not challenge Wuk's world view at all.

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Originally Posted by Aniise

That's not all, she is outright deflecting any form of criticism. Her twitter bubble loves her, so what gives. Who needs other opinions if you get only positive feedback and shut out all the other voices, even when your work was clearly subpar. /shrug


https://i.imgur.com/LYz9hTH.png

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Lmao that bitch is coping so hard. She knows people hate her performance but will pretend otherwise. I criticized her performance, she hid my reply and then blocked me. Easy to put yourself in a bubble.

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Originally Posted by Balmung_Griffin

I don't agree, they've tried to replicate Gaia and Ryne (and that one made sense because Gaia and Ryne had opposing elements) but it didn't work.

Wuk Lamat should not have that power level at all, we're saying she's topping Estinien which is completely absurd.
If it was a scene where her voice reached Sphene it would be okay, breaking through dimensions is not.

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While a bit weird, we were in a digital space and not really flesh and blood so i thought that made it possible.
Tbh i was more confused about our usual "We summon the other Warriors of Light" trick actualy worked in this place.

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Originally Posted by Karious

Lmao that bitch is coping so hard. She knows people hate her performance but will pretend otherwise. I criticized her performance, she hid my reply and then blocked me. Easy to put yourself in a bubble.

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I'd rather we direct criticism at FF14, Yoshi P, SE, and CBU3 directly than individual workers. This whole VA shit is a pointless distraction that will just cause everyone's feedback to turn into another front in the gaming culture wars.

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

I'd rather we direct criticism at FF14, Yoshi P, SE, and CBU3 directly than individual workers. This whole VA shit is a pointless distraction that will just cause everyone's feedback to turn into another front in the gaming culture wars.

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Oh, I mean, I tried to direct criticism at the SE/FFXIV accounts on X but they blocked me too.

Not gonna lie.

Contacting individual VAs and giving them hate, or reviewing them directly is pointless and it's a bit... Off the rails, so to speak.

The onus is entirely with the team. They are the ones quality checking the product, and should be the ones saying whether the take is fit-for-purpose or needs to be redone.

The actual VA work itself.. It was OK, but it dipped significantly at the end.

You can avoid that VA in 3 other languages, and the text will still be in English. Sadly, it's not the voice acting that is solely responsible for how irritating Llama Tea is as a character. Nor is it the voice acting that makes her a Blackhole Sue. The writing all around her is bad, but if we consider they were planning for DT to be the new start to FFXIV sometime ago, long before the VAs were cast, then it becomes apparent that perhaps the EN localizers chose to cast Miss Bryer in an effort to curb criticism of the game itself by reducing us to arguing about a Trans actor's performance. Taking lessons from Disney on that front, I guess.

So we should do what Krogans do and ignore that aspect of things. I mean, I'm not trying to forbid anyone from talking about it, but the thread for it exists in several flavors, and it is independent of the narrative issues with Yawntrail.

Even if Wuk Lamat had the best voice acting this series ever got I would still hate her as a character anyway.
Besides that I could give less of a damn if her VA is a person who cured cancer, saved a orphanage of baby kittens and discovered the way to solve world hunger. She did a bad job, idc if its the voice directors fault either, if I have a bad meal at a resturant ill blame the cook not the guy who made the produce. It sucked.

I had no idea the VA was trans until after I finished the MSQ and had already come to the conclusion that they did a terrible job. Not that it even matters to me, I don't care which person, or AI even, does the voice acting, just so long as they actually do their job well. In the case of Wuk's English VA, they very clearly did a poor job of it.

I'd say that SE should recast and re-record Wuk Lamat's English lines with a better voice actor, but that sadly won't fix the countless issues with the character related to poor writing, which is also glaringly bad.

i'm glad JP loathes this awful character as much as i do

It's nice to know I'm not the only one who hates the character and finds the voice 100% annoying. Wuk is the jar jar binks of ff. What the hell was yoshi and the rest thinking?

I hated Wuk also, but I've been enjoying most of the rest of the story. Haven't actually finished everything yet since these dungeons are a nightmare.

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Originally Posted by rofland

i'm glad JP loathes this awful character as much as i do

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Thank god! Means more likely the feedback will get passed on. I 100% think they dont get most of the english forum feedback or only get parts of of it. Heres hoping for a recast in the future.

Also,Kate needs to stop inserting her ideology into ffxiv. I have heard she boasts about it. I hope they fire her and bring back people who were steering the game in a good way.

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Originally Posted by Bearskjold

I hated Wuk also, but I've been enjoying most of the rest of the story. Haven't actually finished everything yet since these dungeons are a nightmare.

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Yeah, the story as a whole is ok. The worst offenders are pacing issues. Issues that could have been resolved that the writers put more focus on rest of the cast than Wuk. Better delivery for Zoraal's insecurity, better delivery for Bakuul's desperation. But no. Wuk, Wuk and more Wuk.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Yeah, the story as a whole is ok. The worst offenders are pacing issues. Issues that could have been resolved that the writers put more focus on rest of the cast than Wuk. Better delivery for Zoraal's insecurity, better delivery for Bakuul's desperation. But no. Wuk, Wuk and more Wuk.

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"Here comes character development! LOL. J/K. Have more Wuk instead." Again, and again and again and again. The amount of times she interrupted actual meaningful dialogue to bust in like "HEEEEEERE'S WUK!!!" and immediately turn every character in a 10 mile radius into a moron was too damned high.

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Originally Posted by Nyxs

Also,Kate needs to stop inserting her ideology into ffxiv. I have heard she boasts about it. I hope they fire her and bring back people who were steering the game in a good way.

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Also, this. The amount of people claiming anyone talking about this is some sort of -ist, or making up conspiracies is insane. They are literally bragging about doing this, what part of that is a conspiracy?

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Originally Posted by HighlanderClone

Yoshi P has kept saying they want to capture Fornite gamers multiple times now. Not surprising that Disneyfication fits into that strategy

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"Attention all FFXIV gamers! Wuk Lamat is in GREAT DANGER, and she needs YOUR HELP to wipe out the squads in Solution 9, but to do this... she needs a golden axe and a couple of tacos. To help her, all she needs is your credit card number, the three digits on the back, and the expiration month and year."

"But, you gotta be quick, so Wuk Lamat can secure the bag and achieve the epic Victory Royal!"

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...3449c661e6814&

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Originally Posted by Xylira

I had no idea the VA was trans until after I finished the MSQ and had already come to the conclusion that they did a terrible job. Not that it even matters to me, I don't care which person, or AI even, does the voice acting, just so long as they actually do their job well. In the case of Wuk's English VA, they very clearly did a poor job of it.

I'd say that SE should recast and re-record Wuk Lamat's English lines with a better voice actor, but that sadly won't fix the countless issues with the character related to poor writing, which is also glaringly bad.

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a change of voice is not going to fix anything. The problem is the character was atrocious before they even started recording voices

"Woah, this final boss and it's music are actually pretty alright."

And then phase two starts, the music changes and Naruto Lamat drops in screaming "SpHeEeEn! LiStEn To MeEeEe!.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EazSG9zX...jpg&name=small

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Originally Posted by Xylira

I had no idea the VA was trans until after I finished the MSQ and had already come to the conclusion that they did a terrible job. Not that it even matters to me, I don't care which person, or AI even, does the voice acting, just so long as they actually do their job well. In the case of Wuk's English VA, they very clearly did a poor job of it.

I'd say that SE should recast and re-record Wuk Lamat's English lines with a better voice actor, but that sadly won't fix the countless issues with the character related to poor writing, which is also glaringly bad.

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They could cast the likes of Jennifer Hale, Tara Song or Grey DeLisle and I doubt even they could save a lot of this writing. Granted, it would at least be far more bearable listening to any one of them but heck, almost the entirety of the early portion of DT isn't even voiced to begin with.

My absolute favorite moment was post credits roll.

I was so beyond relieved to finally be done with the worst story I've played in any game in recent memory (not just XIV).

Our character retires to their inn room and I was SO HAPPY that we were looking at a map of the world. My mind raced as to where we would go next, what we would see . . . leaving behind this land as if it was a bad dream . . .

Then there's a knock at the door.

HEY! IT'S WUK LAMAT. HEY! REMEMBER WUK! REMEMBER HOW YOU CAN NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER BE RID OF HER!? WELL HERE SHE IS!

I seriously thought it would have been someone else . . . anyone else but her . . . but there she was.

Honestly if we ended her then and there and just leave it woulda made this story a 20 out of 10 but alas she lives to ruin more stories in the future.

it's actually funny the part where she's gone and your doing shaaloani and starting to go into heritage found, i was actually finding myself getting back into the story.
Then it's snapped right back to just thinking... I hate you so much I'm praying for a "noble sacrifice"

I did think the ending zone was kind of neat idea though, Finding out the golden city is like a prison of memories that is fueled by the souls of the living. Talk about a bad idea cranked to 1000
hope we get to turn the lights back on or something though... what a depressing landscape to do 60 FATES in
Having that tacked onto the end of 'worthless derpgirl, who is occasionally the invincible god of destruction, quest to find something to do with something because why not?' and then trying to match the same energy level was a pretty big mistake though

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Originally Posted by Malthir

snip

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I forget, we need to put a /s with everything now.

(some spoilers ahead)


- Wuk Lamat does a great job of sucking the air out of a scene. Wanted to enjoy the balloon ride? Sorry, wuk lamat is scared. Having a nice meal? WTf is that noise wukie is making? Just skip already.
Another issue is everything is so quicky to progress that the only time it feels like we get to actually start to explore or it feels like an adventure is when wuk lamat isnt there. Specifically, when we're in the desert area with Erenville; That's when things finally started being interesting imo.
In past expansions, you'd see us having moments to ourselves to explore & enjoy the scenery but in DT, wuk lamat ruins these moments bc she's afraid or can't be quiet.
But there were some interactions that should have been more prevalent in the character- like when she isn't okay after finding her nephew & killing her brother, but it's such a small moment & then back to sunshine & rainbows, replacing the purpose of ourselves & our friends practically. There are no stepping stones to character growth or development.
In truth, I wanted to like this character- but it was tough.
The twins had zero purpose & no place amongst the "I can do anything/everything" wuk lamat. In past expansions, even with our character being who they are, we still needed the help of our friends.
Our character is so pacifist in DT, the scions being there is a fanservice but they really do nothing to add to a scene. It's like everyone was toned down for the sake of wukie's character. and everyone's just like 'oh, erenville isnt over his mom being dead? well he needs to get over it lol" That last zone & the writing felt disjointed imo.
Why couldn't we get more of our own dialogue? I wanted to be able to have a chat with choice dialogue with all of the scions- considering it's been x amount of time since we've seen them.
the scenery is most of the zones is gorgeous(except solution nine & the zone outside of it.) the music is great- the dungeons & trials are on point, but my god why couldnt it have felt more like a vacation & a chance to explore? Nope- we were a babysitter rushed through some paper thin plot writing.

Also, I hate yshtola & her NA monotone voice. I hated the voice in dragon age: inquisition as well. Her character was a cringey elf
but in DT, She quite literally walked onto the scene & without fail "this is what the issue is. youre welcome" and ok got it, the only scions who served a purpose in DT is the know-it-all with plot armor. But the blindness is just there to ensure her plot armor is only 99% sufficient & not 100%. If she takes a risk, she'll be rescued/resurrected once again with a little more blindness.

Sooo I got to Section 9 finally (Yeah I know im slow I have a busy life) and I was about to be let go to go explore section 9 and WL "come with me, not that im scared or anything" my response was fuck no give me a choice i wanna go alone but my character nodded... I officially wish WL would just fuck off for 5 minutes.

MSQ genuinely start off fine I wasnt too fussed but im tired of her now and I want my alone time with Graha who has had no screen time *angry auri noises*

So I finally slogged through this story enough to the point that I got all the keystones, but to avoid spoilers... It just feels so off putting when this chick is just given everything, with zero character development, just the same broken record crap about peace, kindness, happiness, etc. It's so annoying how everything through the story was just handed to her, it really does give off the feeling that she's the self insert OC of the VA.

I think the biggest issue they are going to have, is try getting a new person into this game, it was bad enough when they knew they had to slog through ARR. Now they have ARR 2.0 but worse to get through. The barrier to entry for this game is about to cause some problems I think.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Sooo I got to Section 9 finally (Yeah I know im slow I have a busy life) and I was about to be let go to go explore section 9 and WL "come with me, not that im scared or anything" my response was fuck no give me a choice i wanna go alone but my character nodded... I officially wish WL would just fuck off for 5 minutes.

MSQ genuinely start off fine I wasnt too fussed but im tired of her now and I want my alone time with Graha who has had no screen time *angry auri noises*

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The most funny thing about that is that she didn't even confess to being scared despite saying a few quests beforehand that she would be done with pretenting.
When red Alphinaud and G'raha run away together laughing I actually wanted to scream.

I swear I will never preorder a ff14 expansion again.

Silence on Y'shtola. I would rather simp for her than deal with Wuk Lamat.

Wuk Lamat didn't ruin the MSQ in the first half, at least. It was when the second half hit that it became unbearably awful and forced. The author basically wanted Sphene to be a dark mirror to Wuk Lamat but it just went into a freaking dumpster fire from the forced dialog and stupid decision making that didn't account for anything involving the lore of the past expansions. Just because it is a new start doesn't mean that all the existing lore suddenly gets voided.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Wuk Lamat didn't ruin the MSQ in the first half, at least. It was when the second half hit that it became unbearably awful and forced. The author basically wanted Sphene to be a dark mirror to Wuk Lamat but it just went into a freaking dumpster fire from the forced dialog and stupid decision making that didn't account for anything involving the lore of the past expansions. Just because it is a new start doesn't mean that all the existing lore suddenly gets voided.

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The first half is about stacking the dumpster with dried straw, the second half lit the dumpster on fire and the ending fight basically pouring in extra gasoline.

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Originally Posted by Verathel

Silence on Y'shtola. I would rather simp for her than deal with Wuk Lamat.

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I'd rather not deal with either- it was nice to skip yshtola's monotone over explaining