Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

https://i.imgur.com/U7pDlBW.jpg

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https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ME6P9ptoE...-please-no.gif

Characters in Beastars are pretty expressive... I think? Its been a hot minute since I watched the anime.
https://i.imgur.com/80ra4Av.png

The development of Viera & Hrothgar was never given the development time it really needed. The issues with head gear for both races, and the lack of genders are clear examples of this. FFXIV has the subscription base to easily have had teams dedicated to fully developing these characters alongside development of Shadowbringers expansion. Instead we got a,"didn't meet our crowdfunding goals," attempt. This is not acceptable from such large development studios.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

I keep saying expressive because human brains are designed to read human faces. This is the reason Hrothgar have ALL THE DRAMA in their emotes, to make up for the fact that much of their facial reactions to things is "shocked Pikachu face". We're not wired to read animal faces well and animals don't rely as much on facial expressions as we do so the more animal a face is the more you have to do with the body language to show what that character is thinking.

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Counter argument to this would be pulling up zoo footage dealing with a lion. Watching the facial reactions, they can be pretty animated, just as much as people. Like with people, it's mostly in reaction to things, such as being surprised, yawning, smelling something bad, etc. It's fairly easy to read the emotions on the faces of lions in such circumstances, and it's most likely what they've based Hrothgar facial reactions on.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Counter argument to this would be pulling up zoo footage dealing with a lion. Watching the facial reactions, they can be pretty animated, just as much as people. Like with people, it's mostly in reaction to things, such as being surprised, yawning, smelling something bad, etc. It's fairly easy to read the emotions on the faces of lions in such circumstances, and it's most likely what they've based Hrothgar facial reactions on.

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Felines in general can be pretty expressive. Personally, I think that Hrothgar are pretty animated when it comes to their poses, emotes and facial expressions.

...And now I'm feeling the itch to switch back to my white lion.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Characters in Beastars are pretty expressive... I think? Its been a hot minute since I watched the anime.
https://i.imgur.com/80ra4Av.png

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I covered this in that post.

"Other way around that is to stylize the face to have more exaggerated, cartoony proportions/ features like the furry art I've been posting and in stuff like Western animation"

This is a Beastars Gray Wolf ... notice the huge eyes and the eyebrows plus general facial proportions that allow this character to portray human like expressions of emotions.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Erq9-rHX...pg&name=medium
https://i0.wp.com/www.otaquest.com/w...g?w=1280&ssl=1


This is a real gray wolf.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/El55_oJU...pg&name=medium



That's the exaggeration cartoonist/ artist/ 3D modelers-riggers-animators use to get clear, complex human facial expressions out of animals.


I'm not saying that they can not be expressive in the face with more reserved animations, I am saying that in-order for them to do that they would have to give them either larger eyes and eyebrows than we see on the males ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETBvj0aU...jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMbJNyMX...jpg&name=large


or give them plainly more human faces so that they can emote better with them.
Giving them bigger, more expressive eyes than the dudes is fine in my book, either's fine with me tbh. I expect expressive animations also because "emote energy" seems to stay consistent between the genders in a race even if they're not the same themes.

As an animator I can tell they put a ton of love and care into the Hrothgar's emotes and tbh they had to ... cause the race would be a complete let down if they had the tiny emotional range of Viera emotes and their faces as is. It would be a struggle to show much of what they're feeling.

Going back to some older posts...

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

[Feminine emotes are] only a conundrum for Femroe, thighlanders are human and have explicitly goofy/ expressive/ "extra" and flat out troll emotes unique to them that build their identity. So yeah, seeing them do any number of girly emotes shared by other females isn't jarring in the least for me. They're made in a way where that type of stuff works, prob one of if not the most flexible females when it comes to looking either tough as f or traditionally goofy or feminine.

When I potioned to Thighlander the girlish giggle at the end of the Toast emote or the Sch scribble didn't hit me in any off-putting way cause their /pose hits just the same. Lots of their personal emotes have that energy. But when I was Femroe? It was jarring AF and highly disappointing like many of their shared emotes/ stances since everything about them is pretty much "BIG and strong".

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To borrow your own quote, "That's just like, your opinion, man".

I deliberately aim for my Roegadyn alt to be girlish, and really their emotes feel like a weird half-and-half mix of tough and girlish emotes. Things like their bow and default sitting pose are quite dainty.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

This new body type is a good indication, in my opinion, that this might be the blueprint for female hrothgar's body.
The same way I believe Urianger's new muscular Shadowbringers' body is the blueprint for male Viera.

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Urianger's model isn't new at all - it's just what all male Elezen look like in that robe.

There's a disconnect between what he probably should look like if he had a fully unique model (and therefore what you would assume he looks like when he's wearing long, covering robes), and what the single Elezen body model looks like whether the character is a mage or a warrior.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

In any case please make female Hrothgar pretty as in not like [unattractive human race].

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(Quote altered to summarise intent, not for my personal take on the races.)

This seems like a weird request, because that's a difficult comparison to judge the attractiveness of an essentially human face what will probably be a feline face, so the criteria for what looks pretty will be very different.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Roe females, I'd probably play them (on my alt) if I had some heavy armor ideas in mind, and had access to a ton of options. By that I mean, I'd play them as if they were males. Feminine glams just don't work on them, in my opinion.

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Feminine glamours can definitely be made to work, but it takes a lot more searching around for the right things to make them look nice. Simpler styles seem to work better than frilly ones.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

That's the exaggeration cartoonist/ artist/ 3D modelers-riggers-animators use to get clear, complex human facial expressions out of animals.

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I'm not really seeing how that translates into "Hrothgar need body-language emotes more than other races because their faces can't do it", unless it's specifically about how the game models work compared to full-detailed 3D animation with more fine control.

I'm fairly sure they can do the "eyes wide, shocked snarl" expression just as well as the human races can do it compared to a screenshot of a human anime character.

This is not to say that the body language doesn't add to their expressiveness, but that holds true for all races.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

To borrow your own quote, "That's just like, your opinion, man".

I deliberately aim for my Roegadyn alt to be girlish, and really their emotes feel like a weird half-and-half mix of tough and girlish emotes. Things like their bow and default sitting pose are quite dainty.

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...
Person says it's a problem for both Thighlanders and Femroe to have animations shared with other races females.
I say thighlanders having "emotes shared by other females isn't jarring in the least for me".

I never said my opinion was fact and I've many times pointed out that Femroe have a strange mix of feminine/ stud/ imposing emotes and poses if you're looking at my old post on OF.

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I'm not really seeing how that translates into "Hrothgar need body-language emotes more than other races because their faces can't do it", unless it's specifically about how the game models work compared to full-detailed 3D animation with more fine control.

I'm fairly sure they can do the "eyes wide, shocked snarl" expression just as well as the human races can do it compared to a screenshot of a human anime character.

This is not to say that the body language doesn't add to their expressiveness, but that holds true for all races.

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If you want to talk on a tech side they did a GREAT job with the Hrothgar, for what they are they have a good range of facial emotes. But given the diversity of their heads and the style they're going for they can only do so much.
Fact of the matter is that they lack eyebrows, proportionally large sclera/ eyes and their mouths do not have the shape range of human lips.

This ... isn't a bad thing. It's how animals are. It just means that it's harder to read emotions and expression on their faces at a distance cause that's what humans use to read other human's faces.
Tis why they have such big animations, it's what body language is used for. It's how we read emotion in actual animals for the most part.

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Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

Occam's razor is obviously, "sex sells". However, a simple look into how a culture looks and consumes media they grew up in or were taught could unconsciously sway the minds in one way or the other. And right now we're at the peak of changing that mindset of females needing to be more human in facial structure to appeal an anthropomorphic character

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The "sex sells" ticket was purchased when they made Hrothgar Males hot western bara-furrys, the question is more along the lines of which style of "sexy female furry" they would go with.

Eastern style is very much the flat mostly human/ anime face like this and tbh they could feel it would fit the style of this game's playerbase easiest.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhxJ1dCU...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EieZJCJU...pg&name=medium

Western style is more animal featured faces.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/En2T1vxX...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhvXoYcX...name=4096x4096


To me the males are clearly made to appeal more to the western audiences and as such I'd expect the females to also be based on attractive western furrys. But who knows, Draggos show they are willing to go every which way in opposition between genders if the key feature is covered.

The closest there is to a female hrothgar - based on how the males look - would be a female khajiit, with maybe one of the faces being more humanoid (aka conventionally waifu)

https://i.imgur.com/ORENRcf.png

https://i.imgur.com/PG04VsB.png

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/4a...583d370ee4.jpg

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Originally Posted by Allegor

The closest there is to a female hrothgar - based on how the males look - would be a female khajiit, with maybe one of the faces being more humanoid (aka conventionally waifu)

https://i.imgur.com/ORENRcf.png

https://i.imgur.com/PG04VsB.png

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/4a...583d370ee4.jpg

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I think a kajit with a higlander build is likely what we will get

Hopefully female Hrothgars won't be female Roe's in disguise. I'd prefer them to be slim and a little smaller than the males. Pantera from bless online would be a very good example.

I'm open to both styles of them, either more like the males with a full feline face, or the more Bless style human-esque design, however i'd say I'd rather prefer the human style design if it meant less issues with head gear and such. But with all the cutbacks and stuff Covid is causing to pretty much every business I'm doubtful we'll see them till 7.0 at the earliest unfortunately. That being said they could also just surprise us and throw one in Fran style in the Bozja content..

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Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

I'm open to both styles of them, either more like the males with a full feline face, or the more Bless style human-esque design, however i'd say I'd rather prefer the human style design if it meant less issues with head gear and such. But with all the cutbacks and stuff Covid is causing to pretty much every business I'm doubtful we'll see them till 7.0 at the earliest unfortunately. That being said they could also just surprise us and throw one in Fran style in the Bozja content..

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Imma be honest and say I'd really appreciate it that if we werent getting the missing genders at 6.0 (which at this point they know either or not we have them considering how far theyre into development) they told us beforehand so we could just put the issue to rest. I guess it makes sense for them to reveal them as a surprise drop or not talk about it so it wont spark as much controversy if they cant add them

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Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

I'm open to both styles of them, either more like the males with a full feline face, or the more Bless style human-esque design, however i'd say I'd rather prefer the human style design if it meant less issues with head gear and such. But with all the cutbacks and stuff Covid is causing to pretty much every business I'm doubtful we'll see them till 7.0 at the earliest unfortunately. That being said they could also just surprise us and throw one in Fran style in the Bozja content..

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I'd honestly be really disappointed in SE if they made female Hrothgars more human in appearance (especially as we already have Miqo'te). Either SE go the route of making them as bestial as the males (head gear issues and all), or not bother at all.
I'm not a fan of "males can be anything, but females must always be mostly human."

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Hopefully female Hrothgars won't be female Roe's in disguise. I'd prefer them to be slim and a little smaller than the males. Pantera from bless online would be a very good example.

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It's what this post is pointing at if you need a visual comparison ..vv

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

https://pasteboard.co/JJe4ZEq.png
some notes on hrothgals v femroe
slimmer, shorter (even more so since the mural seems to cut off the femroe at the ankles, but hrothgar has her feet), with prominent cat ears compared to the males
with this scientific analysis i can therefore conclude that they will be taller, bald miqote.

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TBH they may very well have the flatter human style faces if the art is any indication of the face.
I'm personally fine with either style of face.

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Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

I'm open to both styles of them, either more like the males with a full feline face, or the more Bless style human-esque design, however i'd say I'd rather prefer the human style design if it meant less issues with head gear and such. But with all the cutbacks and stuff Covid is causing to pretty much every business I'm doubtful we'll see them till 7.0 at the earliest unfortunately. That being said they could also just surprise us and throw one in Fran style in the Bozja content..

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That's the type of catch 22 I've been wondering about.
Seems clear to me that people are not happy with the limits of Viera and Hrothgar and it also seems clear that it's not exactly easy, fast or a top priority to make NEW Viera hair and Hrothgar heads as is. So ... would people be ok with them making both the missing genders have heads designed to be more compatible with shared Hair and head gear (aka, learn from this backlash)? It's something I rarely get a straight answer for from people who want to play the gender. At the end of the day they make new player models for the people who will play them, tis why no amount of memeing Draggo's sex differences means anything. People who like and play which ever Draggo gender are happy enough with them.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

The closest there is to a female hrothgar - based on how the males look - would be a female khajiit, with maybe one of the faces being more humanoid (aka conventionally waifu)

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I've been avoiding using western games/ MMOs as a comparison for the simple fact that it's hard breaking down the the principles of animation and character design to tell people something as simple as "exaggeration is a thing" let alone the difference in different aesthetics and art styles.
Many western games like ESO or EQ2 try to go for a gritty, realistic European fantasy style of yesteryear with lil to zero effort in trying to look cute/ glamorous/ sexy in aesthetics and art style. That's the opposite of how FF14 and other Eastern games work, everything in this game is designed to look cute/ glamorous/ sexy/ appealing on some level.

To put it simple ...

This..
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErmqVeZV...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErmmpkqV...jpg&name=large
has the same energy as this.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...75/440/9ad.jpg
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...70/886/361.png
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...72/347/9f0.png

Neither are as bland as ESO cats cause they're made to look sexy/ attractive. So IMO furry art is what we should be using as ref as everything in this game tries to strike on "cute/ glamorous/ pretty/ handsome/ sexy" and this is even more true for the females of any race. Females are not given the range of faces to pick from as males are in this game, they are given 4 types of attractive faces with different flairs.

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Originally Posted by zeylos

I think a kajit with a higlander build is likely what we will get

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Khajiit with FemRoe Body plz :3

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Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

I'm open to both styles of them, either more like the males with a full feline face, or the more Bless style human-esque design, however i'd say I'd rather prefer the human style design if it meant less issues with head gear and such. But with all the cutbacks and stuff Covid is causing to pretty much every business I'm doubtful we'll see them till 7.0 at the earliest unfortunately. That being said they could also just surprise us and throw one in Fran style in the Bozja content..

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The issue with the Human face is, then they would literally just be Miqote 2.0. And I know most people would hate that then be ok with it.
Having the ability to wear head gear by Sacrificing a unique head to give the beast race an authentic beastly appearance would also be seen as lazy. Even if you factor in making making the body rig and the animations for emotes and such....you could literally say "Why didnt we get this sooner" if this is all it is?

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Originally Posted by Allegor

The closest there is to a female hrothgar - based on how the males look - would be a female khajiit, with maybe one of the faces being more humanoid (aka conventionally waifu)

https://i.imgur.com/ORENRcf.png

https://i.imgur.com/PG04VsB.png

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/4a...583d370ee4.jpg

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Judging from certain...(spoilers)

paintings in Bozja this might indeed be the case. I'm guessing a bit more feminine though.

If they look similar to the female Ronso of old, I'm very much interested in becoming one! +1

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

The issue with the Human face is, then they would literally just be Miqote 2.0. And I know most people would hate that then be ok with it.
Having the ability to wear head gear by Sacrificing a unique head to give the beast race an authentic beastly appearance would also be seen as lazy. Even if you factor in making making the body rig and the animations for emotes and such....you could literally say "Why didnt we get this sooner" if this is all it is?

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Not that I'm advocating for anything but it's non-sense to think "most people" would hate Miqote 2.0 when you can sum up the last 2 newest poplar af females added to the game as "____ version Miqote". Many would jump at the chance for a "different Miqote".
There's a lot of room between Miqote and heads that were built to have shatty limits. For example, I'm 100% sure just having "reg hair" would do a lot towards making Hrothgar more hat friendly as the shape of their face or their head isn't what stops them from wearing hats (The shape of their head and face may very well stop the devs from giving them shared hair as their ears come out the front of their head but they could have had reg racial hair). The males were built to have "lion manes" be a part of their body in CC instead of having reg hair so it's something they either turn on or off, there's no hat hair model cause they don't have hair. Giving the dudes reg hair instead of manes wouldn't make them Miqote 2 and likely would allow hats but still leave them out in the cold for open face helms. Much Like if Viera didn't have 4 options for ears it would be far easier to come up with a solution to their hat's problem, a number of problems with these 2 races as-is comes from arbitrary design decisions that don't add as much as they take away.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Not that I'm advocating for anything but it's non-sense to think "most people" would hate Miqote 2.0 when you can sum up the last 2 newest poplar af females added to the game as "____ version Miqote". Many would jump at the chance for a "different Miqote".
There's a lot of room between Miqote and heads that were built to have shatty limits. For example, I'm 100% sure just having "reg hair" would do a lot towards making Hrothgar more hat friendly as the shape of their face or their head isn't what stops them from wearing hats (The shape of their head and face may very well stop the devs from giving them shared hair as their ears come out the front of their head but they could have had reg racial hair). The males were built to have "lion manes" be a part of their body in CC instead of having reg hair so it's something they either turn on or off, there's no hat hair model cause they don't have hair. Giving the dudes reg hair instead of manes wouldn't make them Miqote 2 and likely would allow hats but still leave them out in the cold for open face helms. Much Like if Viera didn't have 4 options for ears it would be far easier to come up with a solution to their hat's problem, a number of problems with these 2 races as-is comes from arbitrary design decisions that don't add as much as they take away.

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I think more people would prefer the miqo'te 2.0 or whatever. I don't see "most people" wanting khajiit with roe bodies. Like sorry guys, but that just wouldn't be very popular.

Now me? I wouldn't want miqo'te 2.0 regardless if it would be popular or not. I definitely wouldn't want them to have a roe body either though. Then again, for me, this is just casual conversation. I wouldn't play a femhroth either way.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think more people would prefer the miqo'te 2.0 or whatever. I don't see "most people" wanting khajiit with roe bodies. Like sorry guys, but that just wouldn't be very popular.

Now me? I wouldn't want miqo'te 2.0 regardless if it would be popular or not. I definitely wouldn't want them to have a roe body either though. Then again, for me, this is just casual conversation. I wouldn't play a femhroth either way.

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I feel you, I'm on the other side kinda ... as in I WANT to play them and I want them to be enjoyed by others. I don't personally want "Miqote 2.0" but there's a ton of ways to make them flat faced and I wouldn't personally care or blame the devs if they just did that as it has it's fanbase. W/e they do, I'm down so long as they're appealing to fans of female furries as much as the dudes are appealing to the Bara-furry crowd.

The interesting thing I noticed about body type talk is that the whole "make em Femroe/ masculine!" just comes across as virtue signaling. Like, given femroe numbers slapping a Khajiit animal head on them would just result in them having even a smaller population than Femroe who themselves are the least played option in game. I'm a part of a number of FB FF14 groups and after that looong fight with the Hrothgar dude a few pages back in this thread I saw some woman in one say they should add Female Hrothgar and have them be "just as buff as the males!". I asked her "Why do you want this? Is this a thing people are into or want to play?" and she just plainly said "No, I just find the idea of seeing a male Hrothgar with boobs and a dress to be hilarious!".

It was more proof to me of something I'd been suspecting, that a number of people saying this wouldn't bother playing them or don't seem to care about those who would normally be down for playing an anthro female. Got me asking myself "Who ARE the Hrothgar for?" and it all comes back to the furry crowd as the dudes are very much made to be appeal to fans of Bara-furries. That's why I started posted all this furry art, it's like a strange elephant in the room that no one wants to address. That everything about this game says that the females "would also be attractive".

The spectrum of what styles furrys are into is wide and long, but they're often times not hulking beefed out females like femroe.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/El_FBkJX...jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em-_atFV...png&name=large

People assuming they would just be Femroe with animal heads "Cause the dudes use the Roebro rig" (Not understanding that all females other than Lala use the same rig) is IMO why they get faar less chatter and very lil fan-art even though furries are a huge an active crowd online. That's not a very exciting idea to most people who aren't willing to play Femroe already.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Snip

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Kittydee's Lion artwork is great. *cough* >.>

On a side note i really hope they do make female Hrothgar around those lines. But a voice in the back of my head is also saying "Watch them do half and half. Semi-fur. Miqo'te 2.0 but with some fur and a little more feral looking".

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

I feel you, I'm on the other side kinda ... as in I WANT to play them..

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Yeah, I can guarantee that people largely wouldn't want to play a hrothgar with a roe body. Doesn't matter if they had a human or more animal face. The body would completely ruin it. Like when I've seen tall, or bigger females in games, the body people actually want for them is more like what I was talking about earlier: similar to Archeage's Warborn. Something still a bit feminine, with curves. That's why if they decided to make them a bit taller they would be infinitely more popular, and definitely look better, being closer to highlander rather than femroe, in my opinion.

One thing I really hope they would get right for female hrothgar/male viera, is animations though. Male hrothgar being hunched over is one of the biggest complaints I see for them.

Also, I'd guess those Bless cats were probably really popular, though they also have the unique feet and everything going on. All we'd get is the head/face, it's too bad.

I just remembered that if the Devs will stick onto the design principle of Hrothgar as "race with unique heads, limited headgear", via evidence said from Devs that want to try adding more unique heads, patterns for the current Hrothgar. It could be just as plausible for them to make unique heads were we can have a flatter face and a more animal/bestial face to "please both". The only issue is that a flatter face would mean less complex textures (paint colors on skin with no fur detail/hatching ala BNA) and a more animal face means females should have the same skin/fur textures as the males. The sample of KittyDee's lion if applied would still be miles ahead of what we can express ourselves with(or most eastern mmos have). Jjust make them taller and buffer around the collarbone and thighs. Outside of that, we all know Femroe is a flop just like the Roebros but its a matter of EXECUTION...or realizing your game don't work in adding fun things :/

At least they thought ahead in giving Khajit rounder heads to allow headgear. A blend of Form & Function, as they say. FF would be entirely different if they only just took from Dragon Quest. The interpretation of East/West styles mingled together is fascinating.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

One thing I really hope they would get right for female hrothgar/male viera, is animations though. Male hrothgar being hunched over is one of the biggest complaints I see for them.

Also, I'd guess those Bless cats were probably really popular, though they also have the unique feet and everything going on. All we'd get is the head/face, it's too bad.

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I definitely think no hunch will happen. While I'm indifferent to the hunch while understanding the anatomy idea behind it (Himbos that constantly travel through multiple forms of terrain at different elevation), I do enjoy its "ready stance" nature when pulling out an axe or gun. If female's are going to be smaller than it would just be odd. However, maybe give an idle stance where they can hunch/slouch?

Less Bless the better and no amount of popularity for a race can save that mess. Lupus gives me 2001 Planet of the Apes vibes but with less face detail than the makeup on 1998 CATS.

imo Bless's lupus or FF X ronso are what hrotgar should have been (Id have prefered to have male ronso instead of male hrotgar if im honest, with a higlander body build and more athletic animations) which is what I assume female hrotgar will look like based on the murals

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Originally Posted by EtherRose

Kittydee's Lion artwork is great. *cough* >.>

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I really enjoy her style.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ei74l7WW...pg&name=medium

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Originally Posted by zeylos

imo Bless's lupus or FF X ronso are what hrotgar should have been (Id have prefered to have male ronso instead of male hrotgar if im honest, with a higlander body build and more athletic animations) which is what I assume female hrotgar will look like based on the murals

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I've been making sure to post the East Asian furry art along side the Western art to temper expectations because this may very well be the case.

I've noticed from the time I first saw them that they looked very flat faced and that's very much the way the Eastern Furrys seem to gravitate.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiJeg6bV...jpg&name=large


So I decided to do a lil side-by-side with the Varg in Bless Unleashed. (Added the lil race because I felt that dot of a nose may mean it's tiny like a house cat nose)
https://i.imgur.com/TVtcLSF.png

Then I remembered that I had 2 screens of test Femroe for Femroe faces 1 and 4 on my computer so I decided to make a face 2 Femroe and show just how closely the Femroe face looks to what we have in game.
https://i.imgur.com/EP3745O.png

I realize that the art isn't super duper detailed but it's detailed enough to nail all the key features of any Femroe face when they coulda left all these women faceless so take from that what you will.

I don't care what body they have long as they are also beast like in face as the males are, literally care about nothing else cause I feel its moot. Would I LOVE them to have beast feet and hands? Yes... would it ever happen? Seventh hells no, no way would they do that. So I'd take what I can get.

Also now I want to play bless but i don't have a console anymore damnit lol

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Originally Posted by zeylos

imo Bless's lupus or FF X ronso are what hrotgar should have been (Id have prefered to have male ronso instead of male hrotgar if im honest, with a higlander body build and more athletic animations) which is what I assume female hrotgar will look like based on the murals

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No to Bless's Vargs. No no no no NO NO NONONONONONONONONO! Those faces are an abomination and female Hrothgar should never use them, EVER!

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

No to Bless's Vargs. No no no no NO NO NONONONONONONONONO! Those faces are an abomination and female Hrothgar should never use them, EVER!

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Do you mind if I ask why you consider them an "abomination"? Their designs are clearly based on the eastern furry designs shown above, that is extremely popular even here in the west, when I look at them at no point do I think they could be ugly enough to even use a strong descriptional word like abomination, and I'm not even a furry.

Just here to state that I absolutely want female Hrothgar (and MALE VIERA) very badly. Full support!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

Do you mind if I ask why you consider them an "abomination"? Their designs are clearly based on the eastern furry designs shown above, that is extremely popular even here in the west, when I look at them at no point do I think they could be ugly enough to even use a strong descriptional word like abomination, and I'm not even a furry.

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They do not feel bestial, they don't give it off. They feel more like the 2019 Cats faces. They are human faces on bestial bodies. If you want that, then you don't want to play a bestial character, you want to cosplay as one. We have outfits for that ingame.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

They do not feel bestial, they don't give it off. They feel more like the 2019 Cats faces. They are human faces on bestial bodies. If you want that, then you don't want to play a bestial character, you want to cosplay as one. We have outfits for that ingame.

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I'm inclined to agree, human looks don't belong to what's meant to be a beastly race, period. That said, we also have to consider there are (at least) 4 faces, and as much as I too abhor the "Cats movie look" I can almost guarantee one face will be like that because Twelve forbid a female race that can't be waifufied (no offense to anyone), but as long as at least one other looks like an actual cat, I don't really care.

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Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

Their designs are clearly based on the eastern furry designs shown above, that is extremely popular even here in the west...

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Extremely popular in illustrations/vn/2d animation. Yet even those don't even get the clicks or commission loads from artists like MilesDF and Yuliandress. TwoKinds also has a subtle variety in their characters.
Japan separated their ideas of anthropomorphism to two terms:
Kemono ("Beast") and Jujin ("Beastmen")
Splitting the market and interpretation down even more. The former is slowly(thanks maybe to a certain anime) now being used to describe and express the simpler "nyeko" style yet still holding the description to cartoonish/chibi ones like Hello Kitty. While the later is more towards the furry communities preferences, more distinct animal traits to be more anthro than human even if some have flatter faces. Google at your own risk ;3.

I'd play devils advocate in saying the example shots under the CC are expressing the race rather poorly. Even some outside of it via PR images/screenshots. The left looks like a sick Panthro who lost the iconic ears. The right is a hornless elf Padjal with an admittedly nice fur color to compliment the form, reflecting the light all around rather than on glossy textures. Its the best and I wish female Au-Ra could be that. The lower one is just begging for a pig snout. I still overall prefer the "eastern" style in 2D rather than 3D. And I admit it'll just take a bit longer till some enthusiasts can stomach it.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

They do not feel bestial, they don't give it off. They feel more like the 2019 Cats faces.
you want to cosplay as one. We have outfits for that ingame.

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1998 Rum Tum Tugger outfit when?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

They do not feel bestial, they don't give it off. They feel more like the 2019 Cats faces. They are human faces on bestial bodies. If you want that, then you don't want to play a bestial character, you want to cosplay as one. We have outfits for that ingame.

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Thank goodness. I thought I was the only one who thought those Varg pictures looked hideously creepy.

Hroth ladies should be beastial just like their male counterparts, not watered down to appeal to the people who don't want a beast race.

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Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

Do you mind if I ask why you consider them an "abomination"? Their designs are clearly based on the eastern furry designs shown above, that is extremely popular even here in the west, when I look at them at no point do I think they could be ugly enough to even use a strong descriptional word like abomination, and I'm not even a furry.

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It's completely dependent on personal taste. I personally don't find anything wrong with them and given the limits of this game back when I was begging for Viera I thought that the Bless Panth/ Varg style was the most logical thing the devs could do to please those asking for a beast race (cause surely they would never make a race with out head gear). But that's me, I've never had anything against all the styles of furry art I see so long as it's appealing in some way ... be it cute or cool or sexy. (This IS why I'm not a fan of Khajiit. I find everything about them boring, unappealing and lazy).

It comes in all shapes and styles, even Avatar works on the bases of "cat like features on a mostly flat human face" and regardless of what personal opinion is on Cats the movie people fucking loved Avatar.
https://insidethemagic-119e2.kxcdn.c...-5-800x400.jpg

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Originally Posted by Allegor

That said, we also have to consider there are (at least) 4 faces, and as much as I too abhor the "Cats movie look" I can almost guarantee one face will be like that

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I don't think that's feasible.
Though the Hrothgar male heads look different to each other they all have snouts and follow the same basic principles/ facial structure. If this art is to be taken as accurate the 1 face we know of to rep the females (2 if you count the queen, she's got slight differences) has a very flat face large eyes and some kinda notable lip(s). To put it simply, if I had to bet I'd 100% say we're getting 4 versions of 1 type of face cause I don't believe they've ever made such structural differences between faces that they could require different animation controls or rigs for emotes.

But who knows what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

I'd play devils advocate in saying the example shots under the CC are expressing the race rather poorly. Even some outside of it via PR images/screenshots.

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That picture isn't to promote Bless Unleashed, it's simply to help people visualize why it looks so similar to the art. Feel like everyone interested in the topic or hopeful of playing them someday should actively be looking for examples of what they could look like based on what we know.

If they are making their own version of the flat face eastern style I expect it to look as good as anything else they make these days so I don't think anyone who likes how FF14 looks should worry.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

It's completely dependent on personal taste. I personally don't find anything wrong with them and given the limits of this game back when I was begging for Viera I thought that the Bless Panth/ Varg style was the most logical thing the devs could do to please those asking for a beast race (cause surely they would never make a race with out head gear). But that's me, I've never had anything against all the styles of furry art I see so long as it's appealing in some way ... be it cute or cool or sexy. (This IS why I'm not a fan of Khajiit. I find everything about them boring, unappealing and lazy).

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Ironically what you find boring, unappealing, and lazy, is what a lot of furries find to be exciting, appealing, and detailed. There are very few games out there where you can play as an actual beast race, and Elder Scrolls is one of them. Khajiit and Argonians have a lot of fanart in the community, just like how there's a lot of fanart of Tauren, Pandaren, and Worgen from WoW. Rather than human/dwarf/elf/giant/nekomimi (human with animal ears/tail) variants, these are actual unique races.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Ironically what you find boring, unappealing, and lazy, is what a lot of furries find to be exciting, appealing, and detailed. There are very few games out there where you can play as an actual beast race, and Elder Scrolls is one of them. Khajiit and Argonians have a lot of fanart in the community, just like how there's a lot of fanart of Tauren, Pandaren, and Worgen from WoW. Rather than human/dwarf/elf/giant/nekomimi (human with animal ears/tail) variants, these are actual unique races.

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Frankly, I think the whole ESO character creator is boring, unappealing, and lazy, but people cannot deny the popularity of khajiit - probably less so argonian though. A lot of people love the lore and everything else behind them, when I play ESO I see RP all the time with "this one" etc. People love Khajiit. In comparison with other races, I'd have to agree that khajiit are actually one of the most unique ones for ESO, and they look great in hoods. I still don't play them (I prefer elves).

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Ironically what you find boring, unappealing, and lazy, is what a lot of furries find to be exciting, appealing, and detailed.

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Like I said, it's all personal taste. The reason I say that about Khajiit is that the games they're from have old drab ass boring European fantasy aesthetics and an art style that tries to be realistic. This is reflected in the characters, making them look like unnerving corpses regardless of race. Part of the appeal to the series is modding to make your prefect game to which I can say I've seen a number of mods that seek to pump some soul into this game's characters by changing designs and aesthetics.

I have nothing against WoW, it's got an art style that's full of life and like 100 races.
The game Second Life has a huge furry presence as it's a game that allows the players to express themselves in any number of body shapes.

So nah, I'm not giving ES a gold star for stapling a sawed off cat head on a corpse just cause there isn't many games that have 3D anthros.

Edit: Forgot to quote but you probably know who is being spoken to about this subject lol

Sure, however that still doesn't really fit the bill for an abomination to me, sure if something had a human body but a slug face I'd probably consider that an abomination, like I get that full on animal faces are generally what full on furries enjoy, i've certainly seen my fair share of fan art. But looking at the Bless/Eastern style cat people I certainly don't look at them and go Eugh wtf is that.. Guess this is something that would need me to be in the same mindset of a furry I guess?

In regards to the body shape, what's the general consensus? Same as the Bozja art, Curvy but slim? Or do most people want something different than what was shown?