Shots Fired: A Machinist Guide

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nagoto

The OP and the Doc say a couple things about Gauss Barrel.


Is it a DPS loss to keep it up full time (assuming you arnt losing casts by moving)?

---

There are some tricks to it. If you are out of oGCD stuff for 1-2 auto attacks, it can be a DPS gain to toggle it (What has been referenced as Stance Dancing) but this is for low latency/high level play as it takes a bit to master.

Anyone got a wave by wave guide for savage 2 ? Right now im jus dottin all small mobs then spreadshot then back to singlr targrt when one-two mobs, i think the first 4 waves i got down..but how bout wave 5+? Im not too good wit aoe..but mchs r spose to be good for aoe? I think? Any help or tips appreciated

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KilluaKhan

Anyone got a wave by wave guide for savage 2 ? Right now im jus dottin all small mobs then spreadshot then back to singlr targrt when one-two mobs, i think the first 4 waves i got down..but how bout wave 5+? Im not too good wit aoe..but mchs r spose to be good for aoe? I think? Any help or tips appreciated

---

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3249993

Is the general outline I'm using. Adjusting it a little bit to make it work with my group.

Also, BRDs would be better for AOEs

Did a 11330 Wildfire the other day during A2S. Going to guess it was only that high because of the debuff from the walker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FantasyForever

Did a 11330 Wildfire the other day during A2S. Going to guess it was only that high because of the debuff from the walker.

---

Yes, but 11,330 is still a pretty good number in that situation.

I have terrible latency that's been making me realize that MCH may not be the class for me, and a glut of skill speed makes this even worse.
Is there anything I can do to make the class play a little easier considering I've already spent 6 weeks of esoterics on it, or am I stuck in gcd clipping purgatory? I play on ps4 so it isn't possible for me to grab wtfast or anything similar. Should I try and figure out a less optimal opener that suffers less from gcd clipping and input delay or should I pack up my antiquated ferdinand and shed a barrel of tears?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cloacers

I have terrible latency that's been making me realize that MCH may not be the class for me, and a glut of skill speed makes this even worse.
Is there anything I can do to make the class play a little easier considering I've already spent 6 weeks of esoterics on it, or am I stuck in gcd clipping purgatory? I play on ps4 so it isn't possible for me to grab wtfast or anything similar. Should I try and figure out a less optimal opener that suffers less from gcd clipping and input delay or should I pack up my antiquated ferdinand and shed a barrel of tears?

---

I would say, that you should just adjust for the latency. Outside of Wildfire there isn't much that can greatly reduce your DPS as MCN.

With the changes to QR, you will almost always have a Slug/Clean proc to weave in your CD skills if the latency causes issues seeing the proc early, or even if you have bad animation clipping of your skills.

GCD clipping, at least the kind of clipping where you frequently get your actions interrupted with a "You can't execute that action" message tends to, in my experience, be more a function of packet loss than latency itself. I get 200+ms myself but it has not gotten in the way of savage progression or high percentile parses. That said, there are some ways you can mitigate the effects of this, short of getting a more stable connection or moving to PC.

Don't spam your skills, move through your rotation like you're playing DDR where you press each button exactly once. Reason being, when your connection is unstable it will occasionally let you submit a execute command for a skill before you're actually allowed to it, and it's not until it gets to the server that it get sorted out and you get a "You can't execute that action" error.

Imagine the brackets as the GCD window of a skill and the letters as the respective skills.

Your input: AAAAAAABBBBBBBB
Result: [A-------------][B---------------]

When your connection is stable, even when you spam an input for skill B ahead of time, it will simply disregard all the B inputs that occur while A's GCD is still resolving, and queue up both skills nicely one after each other.

Your input: AAAAAAABBBBBBBB
Result: [A--------[B---]-----------------]

With an unstable connection though, it will sometimes make the mistake of letting you fire B off early and you will get an error once the server verifies the timestamps and realizes you executed an impossible action. This is why sometimes when chaining a lot of ogcds, it feels like you randomly have a faster GCD than normal until you get hit by the "You can't execute that action" message shortly after.

What you can do at least is not spam skill inputs, get a good feel for how long 2.5s is and manually hit each skill exactly once to execute it and it will cut down on the instances of this happening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cloacers

I have terrible latency that's been making me realize that MCH may not be the class for me, and a glut of skill speed makes this even worse.
Is there anything I can do to make the class play a little easier considering I've already spent 6 weeks of esoterics on it, or am I stuck in gcd clipping purgatory? I play on ps4 so it isn't possible for me to grab wtfast or anything similar. Should I try and figure out a less optimal opener that suffers less from gcd clipping and input delay or should I pack up my antiquated ferdinand and shed a barrel of tears?

---

Have you checked to make sure its just latency and not a connection drop? Also are you playing on WiFi or do you have a wired connection?

BTW, should someone start a new thread for Machinists so that the Original Post can be edited with the latest and greatest info?

Since it seems like the OP in this thread has stopped updating it. (BLM and DRG Threads all ended up being restarted with new threads in 3.0)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiara

BTW, should someone start a new thread for Machinists so that the Original Post can be edited with the latest and greatest info?

Since it seems like the OP in this thread has stopped updating it. (BLM and DRG Threads all ended up being restarted with new threads in 3.0)

---

We have actually switched over to a google doc that I try to keep updated as new info comes in and gets tested. If we want to switch over to a new thread with the doc on the first page I am fine with starting it up, as long as people help keep it bumped and move people from this thread to that one.

The Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

Hey, been skimming through this for a while now, but are you supposed to use Ricochet on cd, or save it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emptymind

Hey, been skimming through this for a while now, but are you supposed to use Ricochet on cd, or save it?

---

You pretty much use all of your skills on CD except for B4B which you hold for 10 seconds so it lines up with Hawk's Eye and you also hold Hypercharge so it lines up with your 1st and 3rd wildfires.

Has anyone tested a 3-ammo opener like

(qr 3 ammo) (buffs) hot shot>POT>lead shot>WILDFIRE>split shot>RELOAD>slug shot>REASSEMBLE RICOCHET>clean shot>RAPID FIRE GAUSS ROUND>split shot>HEAD GRAZE>slug shot>BLANK>split shot>clean shot>QR>slug shot>(wildfire explodes)?

I've been toying with the idea and I've had okay results with it, but parses are inconsistent enough that I don't really like to rely on my own wildfire numbers alone.

e: I think you end up trading an unbuffed, no-ammo 50% clean shot/50% split shot for a buffed, reloaded split shot, which is a gain of about 80 potency under wildfire on average. That's a potency gain of about 20 overall, so obviously it's not gamechanging.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by girlsimulation

snip

---

If you got time for a 3-ammo opener, you may as well go for a 5-ammo opener using quick reload to refresh the timer. If reload isn't up before pull: Use 3 skills -> Quick reload -> Use another weapon skill -> Reload -> continue. Otherwise continue per usual.

Ideally you'd want to start with:
Reload -> Quick reload every 15s till Reload is up -> Pull -> Quick reload before reload if you think you'll lose your ammo stacks and cannot use reload without waste. But this involves a 50-58s pull macro, which is worse than a ninja huton macro. For those with a warrior buddy: Warriors may actually thank you for a 50s pull macro, as they may have one as well for "the ideal opener"

If you're like me and are too lazy to do any pre-pull ammo openers at all, you can still do what I do and do a "1-ammo opener" which does not require you to change anything at all. It's the standard single gauss round opener from the Shots Fired google doc.

Just put QR at the start of the pre-pull sequence (bfb, he, hc, rs) and it will come off cooldown exactly at the same time you use it in a normal opener. I really mean exactly, refer to the notation below - it's pretty much 15 seconds on the dot.

You get 20 more potency on the first Hot Shot, that's it. Nothing special, but at the same time it requires practically no thinking or setup timing at all, just start your pre-pull sequence 1 GCD earlier with QR.

QR, bfb, he, hc, rs
hot / pot
lead / reload
split / wf
slug / reassemble, ricochet
clean / rapid fire, QR
split / gauss round
slug / head graze
split / blank
clean /
slug

In raids you pretty much always have to wait a minute on SMN/SCH Aetherflow and maybe some other CDs anyway so it shouldn't be a big deal. In dungeons though yeah just flow with whatever you got.

Yes you pretty much have to wait, but I'm that lazy. It's downtime I'd gladly take advantage of to rest - I'd much rather be doing my own thing tabbed out, or stretching and puttering around my room instead of staring at my timers alongside the SMN and SCH.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by girlsimulation

Has anyone tested a 3-ammo opener like

(qr 3 ammo) (buffs) hot shot>POT>lead shot>WILDFIRE>split shot>RELOAD>slug shot>REASSEMBLE RICOCHET>clean shot>RAPID FIRE GAUSS ROUND>split shot>HEAD GRAZE>slug shot>BLANK>split shot>clean shot>QR>slug shot>(wildfire explodes)?

---

If you play in EU, doing your opener, the last slug shot is out of wildfire...EU servers, we are waiting for them !!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myon88

Yes you pretty much have to wait, but I'm that lazy. It's downtime I'd gladly take advantage of to rest - I'd much rather be doing my own thing tabbed out, or stretching and puttering around my room instead of staring at my timers alongside the SMN and SCH.

---

/ac "Reload" <me>
/p Reload 50s<wait.15>
/ac "Quick Reload" <me><wait.5>
/p Ready in 30s<wait.10>
/ac "Quick Reload" <me><wait.5>
/p Ready in 15s<wait.5>
/p Ready in 10s <se.10><wait.5>
/p Ready in 5s <se.14><wait.1>
/ac "Quick Reload" <me><wait.1>
/p Ready in 3s <se.14><wait.1>
/p Ready in 2s <se.14><wait.1>
/p Ready in 1s <se.14><wait.1>
/p Ready! <se.3>

I never got to use it because I'm always the designated healer for raids, though :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

If you got time for a 3-ammo opener, you may as well go for a 5-ammo opener using quick reload to refresh the timer. If reload isn't up before pull: Use 3 skills -> Quick reload -> Use another weapon skill -> Reload -> continue. Otherwise continue per usual. <snip>

---

I'm not a fan of the five ammo opener because of where it puts your reload CD, but that might just be me being picky. I'll have to play around with it more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

If you play in EU, doing your opener, the last slug shot is out of wildfire...EU servers, we are waiting for them !!!

---

I have <30ms ping, so...my condolences.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by girlsimulation

I'm not a fan of the five ammo opener because of where it puts your reload CD, but that might just be me being picky. I'll have to play around with it more.

---

That was in a response to a particular opening suggestion someone made: 3-ammo opener. Opening with 3 ammo in your pocket would mean 3 quick reloads, which is 30 to 45 seconds you have to invest before pull. If you're already spending that much time preparing for a pull, might as well go for a 5-ammo opener.

As for 5-ammo openers, that's what I do when queued for alexander normal - I mentioned in another post I never get the chance to go machinist for savage. It's a free 100 potency increase for the first 5 weapon skills you use. More if you consider the guaranteed proc as well. This involves a 50 seconds preparation, however. I mentioned a macro for it in my previous post. But as we're on a new page, I'll repost it here for sake of ease.

/ac "Reload" <me>
/p Reload 50s<wait.15>
/ac "Quick Reload" <me><wait.5>
/p Ready in 30s<wait.10>
/ac "Quick Reload" <me><wait.5>
/p Ready in 15s<wait.5>
/p Ready in 10s <se.10><wait.5>
/p Ready in 5s <se.14><wait.1>
/ac "Quick Reload" <me><wait.1>
/p Ready in 3s <se.14><wait.1>
/p Ready in 2s <se.14><wait.1>
/p Ready in 1s <se.14><wait.1>
/p Ready! <se.3>

In a nutshell: You use reload, but the tank shouldn't pull as your reload is still on CD.

edit:
Actually, that was you who mentioned the 3-ammo opener :'D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

edit:
Actually, that was you who mentioned the 3-ammo opener :'D

---

Yeah, I was just explaining why I was considering 3-ammo over 5-ammo, lol.

to continue on the note of an older post on the subject of stance dancing

rather than full time stance dancing lately, i've just been doing something a bit more easy (and also more rng, but pretty rewarding when it pays off)

drop gauss after a procced slug/clean shot where you have no other oGCDs to use in that time period. if you get an auto right as you drop it, you are on pace to get 2 autos for the duration of 1 GB off ws; after that, you turn GB back on before your GCD has a chance to catch up to your auto timing. so for example

clean shot->gauss off+auto->split shot+auto>gauss on>etc

the concept is that, if you have no oGCDs and drop gauss after an instant cast skill, you have effectively a 3.5s~ window to get autos in; so if the timer is friendly, you can get 2 attacks in that window, then put GB back on before your GCD can catch up.

worst case scenario, it's still a pretty low risk dps increase if the timing is off and you only get one shot. this is the issue i had with stance dancing in certain places before; if you turn it off after like a split shot, or after a slug/clean shot that has an oGCD after it, there's a chance that your autos will fall behind your GCD, and by the time you put GB back on, you end up with a DPS loss since you missed an auto. with this, in the best case you get a nice chunk of dmg added on; worst case, it's practically a guaranteed dps increase still, and you can be fairly confident that your autos will maintain a 1:1 ratio with your GCD in that situation.

edit: video on it -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRrOK6pWz0w

Hi I'm trying out by mch and I see first post is last updated in july. Is this not affected by last patch and still good?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpecialKK

Hi I'm trying out by mch and I see first post is last updated in july. Is this not affected by last patch and still good?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Griffeth

We have actually switched over to a google doc that I try to keep updated as new info comes in and gets tested. If we want to switch over to a new thread with the doc on the first page I am fine with starting it up, as long as people help keep it bumped and move people from this thread to that one.

The Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

---

Please see above. At this point I am tempted to start a new thread so people dont just read the first page of this one anymore. You guys ready to keep the new thread updated?

EDIT: New thread started. See the link here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...achinist-Guide

Points to the google doc at the top of the page. Also includes a TL;DR section with the most crucial info to be kept up to date (Opener, Rotation, Stat weight and BiS)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Griffeth

snip

---

Don't know if it is possible or not, but maybe a forum administrator can do something about letting us alter the OP page.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

Don't know if it is possible or not, but maybe a forum administrator can do something about letting us alter the OP page.

---

If that was possible, that would be the preferable route as I do not want to lose all of the information and discussion we have had in this thread. But we have had quite a few people in the last couple weeks only referencing the OP and not looking through the last couple pages of the thread, so they are using out of date information.

I guess we can see what the Admins can do, otherwise we will need to move the discussion to the new thread that will be updated.

Anyone know what color Mide's Forager Vest is? Is it Metallic Silver? And can MCH even wear those boots? They're my favorite boot model in the game because they look the most realistic and simple, but I think they're Acolyte Boots which are DoM only :(

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/w/images/1/1d/Mide.png

Also are MCH's esoteric goggles the only goggles in the game that you can /visor?

It's probably metallic silver if anything.

I'm fairly certain those boots are not wearable by MCH - because I've been looking for simple thighhigh boots to glamour myself and I've probably trawled through our wearable list tens of times over. I don't recall seeing them at all.

have you tried adept's thighboots

http://puu.sh/l7fBp/fb937acf70.png

also, here's an a3s clear @ 1262~ dps (i210) if anyone was interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEjASPWp9wo

Stupid question, but why isn't using GB, then firing off Richochet/Gauss Round, then turning GB off a thing? If GB is 30% damage but takes away Autoattacks which are 30% of our damage, then the only point of GB is to use those two skills, right? So why aren't we out of GB and when GR/Richochet are ready, flick GB on and use them and flick GB off? GB is a 10s recast and is oGCD right? I mean we usually have downtime between GC once we burn our main cooldowns anyway...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aiurily

have you tried adept's thighboots

http://puu.sh/l7fBp/fb937acf70.png

---

Are those available on the Marketboard? Saw them for the first time today and loved the look of them. It says "all classes", but is it crafted only?

They are bought with blue scrips, so you'll need to have a crafter leveled to access them.

If you're in the Maelstrom, the Lominsian Soldier's Boots are a fairly decent alternative as well. The other GCs have similar boots but only the Maelstrom one is black.

Just curious, but I've mostly been using Rend Mind and Dismantle on tank busters with boss fights. That's their main purpose right?
Or do you guys tend to use it soon as it pops?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElasmoFan

Just curious, but I've mostly been using Rend Mind and Dismantle on tank busters with boss fights. That's their main purpose right?
Or do you guys tend to use it soon as it pops?

---

Tank Busters. You'll mitigate much more damage on a big hit and some small ones than just a bunch of small ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myon88

They are bought with blue scrips, so you'll need to have a crafter leveled to access them.

If you're in the Maelstrom, the Lominsian Soldier's Boots are a fairly decent alternative as well. The other GCs have similar boots but only the Maelstrom one is black.

---

Oh awesome. I happen to be with them. I'l check that out. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Stupid question, but why isn't using GB, then firing off Richochet/Gauss Round, then turning GB off a thing? If GB is 30% damage but takes away Autoattacks which are 30% of our damage, then the only point of GB is to use those two skills, right? So why aren't we out of GB and when GR/Richochet are ready, flick GB on and use them and flick GB off? GB is a 10s recast and is oGCD right? I mean we usually have downtime between GC once we burn our main cooldowns anyway...

---

The auto attack total is more around 20% of your dps from the parses I've seen.

Hello guys! I would like to take MCH seriously again, as I really like its concept and playstyle. However, I feel like I'm pretty bad-ish.. Specially as to when to use wildfire. I managed to do 950 dps at i185, i180 weapon, wonder if that's on the low side, which I'm quite sure. Do I just keep on practicing, or am I just hopeless hahaha, thanks!