#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Yes! I would love if different jobs within the same role had different purposes. Let WHM be the "big instant heals" healer and AST be the "mostly HoT and delayed healer", for example. Not to the point that one of them is not viable in certain content, but to the point that jobs don't constantly step on each other's toes.

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I was furious to see that some domes (Sch/Sag) were giving hots...

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Originally Posted by hunter2

https://i.imgur.com/0sbyjt0.png
Any artists in the thread? :p

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What a terrible day to have eyes. Even more terrible is the fact that they're probably right.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

Player "who have encounter one trollish healer a few years ago but has focused on this one bad experience since then" spotted.

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I've only ever had one trollish healer, they threatened to not heal me if I kept pulling (I was playing MNK and was literally beside the Tank on every pull) so I told them that refusing to heal out of spite was a reportable offense, which I don't even know if it's tru but it shut them up. Here's the sad truth about this whole healer strike; 99% of healers are perfectly fine and realize that the rest of the playerbase wants them DPSing so that everyone can finish their roulettes, or their clears as fast as possible because they respect other people's time. Then you have this tiny, vocal minority that actually want everything to be way harder and take up more of everyone's time because their enjoyment comes first, damn everyone else. That's why I'm here. Because I see a group of selfish people trying to ruin everyone else's time so that they can have a negligible improvement to their rotation, all the while refusing to partake in anything harder than Normal Variant Dungeons or Extreme Trials.

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Originally Posted by ClayyLmao

I've only ever had one trollish healer, they threatened to not heal me if I kept pulling (I was playing MNK and was literally beside the Tank on every pull) so I told them that refusing to heal out of spite was a reportable offense, which I don't even know if it's tru but it shut them up. Here's the sad truth about this whole healer strike; 99% of healers are perfectly fine and realize that the rest of the playerbase wants them DPSing so that everyone can finish their roulettes, or their clears as fast as possible because they respect other people's time. Then you have this tiny, vocal minority that actually want everything to be way harder and take up more of everyone's time because their enjoyment comes first, damn everyone else. That's why I'm here. Because I see a group of selfish people trying to ruin everyone else's time so that they can have a negligible improvement to their rotation, all the while refusing to partake in anything harder than Normal Variant Dungeons or Extreme Trials.

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Enjoyment should be equal across all jobs and roles, not just tanks and DPS. If there's people who enjoy healer role as is, then this thread isn't really for them, and people who attempt to troll and antagonize everyone else is because they took this as a personal offense with "well I enjoy it, why don't you?".

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Originally Posted by ClayyLmao

99% of healers are perfectly fine and realize that the rest of the playerbase wants them DPSing so that everyone can finish their roulettes, or their clears as fast as possible because they respect other people's time. Then you have this tiny, vocal minority that actually want everything to be way harder and take up more of everyone's time because their enjoyment comes first, damn everyone else.

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No job is perfectly fine, they're all samey in one sense or another. Healers (and tanks) just have it worse than DPS when it comes to samey.

And I believe it's possible for both sides to get what they want.

People like me, casual players, can still continue playing the job on easy mode, pressing a few damage buttons but stopping DPS to heal, not worrying if Adlo is a DPS loss or not (I never cared about that anyway), while giving other healers the possibility to optimise and reach a higher skill ceiling if they want to.

It doesn't need to be mutually exclusive, as long as SE implements it properly.

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Originally Posted by ClayyLmao

I've only ever had one trollish healer, they threatened to not heal me if I kept pulling (I was playing MNK and was literally beside the Tank on every pull) so I told them that refusing to heal out of spite was a reportable offense, which I don't even know if it's tru but it shut them up. Here's the sad truth about this whole healer strike; 99% of healers are perfectly fine and realize that the rest of the playerbase wants them DPSing so that everyone can finish their roulettes, or their clears as fast as possible because they respect other people's time. Then you have this tiny, vocal minority that actually want everything to be way harder and take up more of everyone's time because their enjoyment comes first, damn everyone else. That's why I'm here. Because I see a group of selfish people trying to ruin everyone else's time so that they can have a negligible improvement to their rotation, all the while refusing to partake in anything harder than Normal Variant Dungeons or Extreme Trials.

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So I was right for the trollish healer. Damn.

And... I don't mean to be unpleasant, but do you realise that one of the purposes of this thread is to denounce dps phases, where you only spam a button; which implicitly means that the healers in this thread are among those who dps in your roulettes?

It might be useful to read the thread.

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Originally Posted by Tint

It's not even that out of place. I mean Y'shtola has quit healing and became a Black Mage in Shadowbringers.

And now Krile will quit healing and becomes Pictomancer.

Not even the FFXIV main cast wants to deal with healing anymore.

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Alphinaud as well.


https://i.imgur.com/AeQADsP.png

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Enjoyment should be equal across all jobs and roles, not just tanks and DPS. If there's people who enjoy healer role as is, then this thread isn't really for them, and people who attempt to troll and antagonize everyone else is because they took this as a personal offense with "well I enjoy it, why don't you?".

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Sure, and I'd agree with you if I didn't see so many people in this thread asking for kit to be taken away from other jobs so that they have an excuse to heal more. Which is demanding other people lose fun pieces of kit so that the healers can spend more time doing something they should already be doing quite a bit of. And the only examples of things I'm being shown is High level players pulling off crazy clears on current content, or bald streamer man farting his way through the easiest tier of content in the game without a healer.

I'm all for Healers getting more interesting DPS rotations or OGCD Damage options, those are good solutions to the problem.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

No job is perfectly fine, they're all samey in one sense or another. Healers (and tanks) just have it worse than DPS when it comes to samey.

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I was referring to Healers as the people that play them, not the jobs. i.e. The vast majority of people who play healer are willing to put up with what is in reality a very minor issue for the sake of the enjoyment of everyone else in the party, and to respect everyone's time.

A few of us asked questions on the japanese forums regarding their stance on the healer design, and it seems that they indeed like this type of braindead 111 gameplay. It does not bode well...... And it might explain why we've been stuck with this bs design for years... They might very well just not care at all about international players.

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Originally Posted by ClayyLmao

Sure, and I'd agree with you if I didn't see so many people in this thread asking for kit to be taken away from other jobs so that they have an excuse to heal more. Which is demanding other people lose fun pieces of kit so that the healers can spend more time doing something they should already be doing quite a bit of. And the only examples of things I'm being shown is High level players pulling off crazy clears on current content, or bald streamer man farting his way through the easiest tier of content in the game without a healer.

I'm all for Healers getting more interesting DPS rotations or OGCD Damage options, those are good solutions to the problem.

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It's more about something to do, pretty sure that's the entire message of this thread. If SE doesn't nerf WAR or any other tank self sustain, then they should increase incoming damage to force healers to actually use their kit rooted in their role -- heals. With the mediatour, you can really thank Xeno for showing the possibility to clear a dungeon without a healer, and that's how all they played mediocre because they were clicking skills rather than using their gaming mice. Imagine if you were always stuck in a level 16 Sastasha rotation, 1 aoe and your 1+2 skill to spam, and go like that through the entirety of the game from 16 to 90, wouldn't that become boring to you? Because that's pretty much how healers are 90% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Alphinaud as well.


https://i.imgur.com/AeQADsP.png

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He ditched SCH to become SGE... now he's slowly becoming a DPS. Oh the irony.

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Originally Posted by Teno

A few of us asked questions on the japanese forums regarding their stance on the healer design, and it seems that they indeed like this type of braindead 111 gameplay. It does not bode well...... And it might explain why we've been stuck with this bs design for years... They might very well just not care at all about international players.

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Either that, or this:

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Originally Posted by Aravell

There is a chance that you're speaking to the new healer mains on JP who jumped on the boat precisely because it's easy.

I play on JP and this is just my anecdote, but I have noticed some of the good JP healers I've cohealed with in SB are now playing DPS/tanks in PF. It's possible that their good healers quit the role much earlier than some here and the replacements are the people you see posting now[...]

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Originally Posted by ClayyLmao

Sure, and I'd agree with you if I didn't see so many people in this thread asking for kit to be taken away from other jobs so that they have an excuse to heal more. Which is demanding other people lose fun pieces of kit so that the healers can spend more time doing something they should already be doing quite a bit of. And the only examples of things I'm being shown is High level players pulling off crazy clears on current content, or bald streamer man farting his way through the easiest tier of content in the game without a healer.

I'm all for Healers getting more interesting DPS rotations or OGCD Damage options, those are good solutions to the problem.


I was referring to Healers as the people that play them, not the jobs. i.e. The vast majority of people who play healer are willing to put up with what is in reality a very minor issue for the sake of the enjoyment of everyone else in the party, and to respect everyone's time.

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A CD isn’t well designed if to get your fun it robs another role of their core design

What if holy applied a stun that never dropped off. You are “tanking” but really you are just playing a crap DPS because the healer has stunned the mobs into being totally useless. Would you like that? If you didn’t would you like to hear the excuse “oh but I like holy just change the tanks”

It’s a stupid argument, the same can be applied to shake it off

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Originally Posted by ClayyLmao

I was referring to Healers as the people that play them, not the jobs. i.e. The vast majority of people who play healer are willing to put up with what is in reality a very minor issue for the sake of the enjoyment of everyone else in the party, and to respect everyone's time.

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Alright, misunderstood, sorry. But still, that's all the strikers are asking for, and the strike is just a way to put pressure on the devs to review and make some changes. And I don't see the harm in dropping a role that you're not enjoying playing, and making your grievances known.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Either that, or this:

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Yeah true, but the difference with our forums was so striking and appalling that I tilted and just left given the responses they were giving.

As a Dark Knight, what did we ever do to deseve this?

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Originally Posted by Teno

A few of us asked questions on the japanese forums regarding their stance on the healer design, and it seems that they indeed like this type of braindead 111 gameplay. It does not bode well...... And it might explain why we've been stuck with this bs design for years... They might very well just not care at all about international players.

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They gave valid concerns even though they partially agree with us. I dont see why you're all to negative?
Though, I guess you got a bit icky cause you got called out for your rather aggressive post in the jp thread?

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Originally Posted by ClayyLmao

"Erm, healers don't have massive egos, we just attempt to go on strike when we don't like that we're no longer able to control the entire party by refusing to heal people that don't play in the very specific way we permit"

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Uhh..what? How is asking for changes to make the healer jobs less braindead "refusing to heal people that don't play in the very specific way we permit"? Do you need some reading comprehension classes or something?

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Originally Posted by Lau298

As a Dark Knight, what did we ever do to deseve this?

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To walk the path is to suffer. To sacrifice. Justice demands no less. :p

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Uhh..what? How is asking for changes to make the healer jobs less braindead "refusing to heal people that don't play in the very specific way we permit"? Do you need some reading comprehension classes or something?

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I think someone is running disinformation somewhere. There's been a few people in the last 24 hours who came in and talked as if we were planning to queue in on healers and grief people.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Big, wall-to-wall pulls are annoying when the tank does not telegraph they are going to do that. Especially for people who just picked up conjurer, and get blindsided in sastasha with a tank who pulls the entire floor and then runs off.

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Satasha in particular is a funny case because of clam skip. That dungeon actively encourages just hitting the wall despite the lack of AoE. It also needs to be the first tank dungeon too so it can't hit super hard and you can have only Rampart for mit if you're still leveling.

As you progress through ARR, it's difficult to wall pull Brayflox, it's really difficult to wall pull Stone Vigil (those ice spirits have hands). There's something lost at higher levels that makes walls normal and [looks at Raw Intuition, looks at healer kits being 80~% heals] I wonder what could do that? They stop letting us manage how much we pull too by putting up unnecessary walls so we can't even try to push our bloated kits and now people queue healer to skip in queue, not because, you know, they enjoy healer.

You obviously can attempt to do this to get some attention to your concerns, but I don't think this will really do anything in the long run other than slow up the df queue for a bit. First of all if you're serious about some sort of strike you should probably be doing it even in early access. You should probably also continue to do it until you have some sort of a response from yoshiP or the company. Otherwise you've only made a tiny inconvenience to the player base without really having a lasting impact. I bring this up because your original post doesn't specify when the strike ends.

Why aren't you starting the strike on early access? Is it so you can get through the story and then sit back and wait? It just doesn't speak to me that you all really prioritize having the classes changed without playing the game in the mean time. In the end it speaks of a weak will that won't be able to accomplish much. A shame really because I agree with you all that healers could definitely use a bit more love on the job side of things.

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Originally Posted by hunter2

https://i.imgur.com/0sbyjt0.png
Any artists in the thread? :p

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You mean the art of Yshtola dress in bikini chilling at seaside beach in protest of healerstrike? I could see that...

Just glad I don't main healer anymore. Healer was once fun to play but now it's a boring job to play.

The arrogance of healers. To state with one breath that dps and tanks shouldn't get the occasional support or self healing so that soloing or a healer dying in a dungeon isn't an instant wipe. Yet on the other hand, you demand more active dps, demanding to dip into our role. Your 'strike' will go nowhere. It won't even be a blip on the duty finder radar. The average player will not notice your efforts. And it will all be forgotten as one by one, you all realize how silly you're being. Either going back to your healing or realizing just how few of you there are outside of the forum echo chambers.

You are not the tsunami. You are a drop in the ocean.

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

The arrogance of healers. To state with one breath that dps and tanks shouldn't get the occasional support or self healing so that soloing or a healer dying in a dungeon isn't an instant wipe. Yet on the other hand, you demand more active dps, demanding to dip into our role. Your 'strike' will go nowhere. It won't even be a blip on the duty finder radar. The average player will not notice your efforts. And it will all be forgotten as one by one, you all realize how silly you're being. Either going back to your healing or realizing just how few of you there are outside of the forum echo chambers.

You are not the tsunami. You are a drop in the ocean.

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“Occasional support or self healing”

The tanks are better healers than we are

And we don’t want to do more DPS, we want to do our current DPS in more interesting ways

Maybe don’t insult us if you don’t even know what we are arguing for

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

The arrogance of healers. To state with one breath that dps and tanks shouldn't get the occasional support or self healing so that soloing or a healer dying in a dungeon isn't an instant wipe. Yet on the other hand, you demand more active dps, demanding to dip into our role. Your 'strike' will go nowhere. It won't even be a blip on the duty finder radar. The average player will not notice your efforts. And it will all be forgotten as one by one, you all realize how silly you're being. Either going back to your healing or realizing just how few of you there are outside of the forum echo chambers.

You are not the tsunami. You are a drop in the ocean.

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So using your logic against you of, "It's fine for tanks to gain party healing and self healing to the point of replacing healers"...okay, so it should also be fine that healers get the tank treatment and be able to fill in the tank role while also having a similar dps kit to the tanks. Again, your words not mine. I don't want that, but if you can't see the hypocrisy, I am not sure what to tell you...

I’m a former SCH main. Played it from ARR till Endwalker. I was staggered by what they did to it in Shadowbrigners and endlessly frustrated by the ongoing lack of identity in the role. Abilities and theming very inconsistent. I was enjoying myself so little that I switched to maining SMN and haven’t touched healing since. I don’t even know what’s going on with it lately with all the religious themed stuff randomly for the classes higher level abilities. So strange. I’ve been really worried about the state and future of this game that I love. So many things seem rushed or poorly thought out, and I often find myself scratching my head trying to understand the decisions being made in recent years. I have a lot of respect for this development team and I think they do a lot right that other developers get wrong. Very frequently they correct course or implement things that really impress me. I hope they can do so going forward and make sure this game lasts another 10 years or more.

For what it’s worth, I wont be healing in 7.0 unless substantial change comes to the game.

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Originally Posted by Bun_Vivant

Well, if some one is ignorant of or willing to selfishly ignore the fact that healing is fun for a lot of people,

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This is a copout and does not address that there are fundamental issues with job design in general. A car that is leaking oil will still you get you from point A to point B, and it will keep running so long as you keep putting oil in it. This is FFXIV job design in a nutshell.

And yes, it is true that these issues exist across all roles and jobs in FFXIV. However, the difference here is no role is encroached upon as much a the healer role. Like, it doesn't even come close. Imagine a game where DPS constantly rip enmity from the tank, and the effort to resolve the issue is to just give that job more mitigation, self-sustain, and even double downing on that job's ability to acquire enmity. Imagine if healers were given more dynamic DPS rotations than the DPS jobs in the game, where they exist outside the 2-minute meta and not only are their rotations rewarding and dynamic, they also have all that support ability stacked on top of it. That is what is happening to the healer role, and it is happening whether a player is having fun with the jobs or not.

Then there is this BS argument about waiting to see what 7.2 or even 8.0 brings. To not cast judgment until we can see what they've cooked up. For the sake of argument, let's say that this content shakes things up, and the content is absolutely amazing. Great! Right? Until roulettes, relic quests, leveling, etc. sends us right back into the content that precedes it. Yoshi has stated that he would like to work on raid design first, which means he would rather design jobs around encounter design, opposed to the opposite. My question is why are not both taken into mind simultaneously? Seems to me that this would be the best approach to avoid the dev's massive lack of foresight.

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

The arrogance of healers. To state with one breath that dps and tanks shouldn't get the occasional support or self healing so that soloing or a healer dying in a dungeon isn't an instant wipe. Yet on the other hand, you demand more active dps, demanding to dip into our role. Your 'strike' will go nowhere. It won't even be a blip on the duty finder radar. The average player will not notice your efforts. And it will all be forgotten as one by one, you all realize how silly you're being. Either going back to your healing or realizing just how few of you there are outside of the forum echo chambers.

You are not the tsunami. You are a drop in the ocean.

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Nice work completely strawmanning what people are saying. Nobody is saying tanks and DPS should have zero sustain. What people are saying is that currently, there is way too much, especially on tanks. If you can straight up do zero healing if your party's healer is Warrior, something is wrong. Somehow, SE are doubling down on this and giving tanks even MORE healing, further making healers unneccessary.

Is tanks having a 1/2/3 combo "dipping into DPS"? Because if not, you are being blatantly hypocritical here.

Besides, what else should we be asking for, then? If we ask to be able to heal more, we get shouted down. Either by people saying "you want to take healing away from other jobs" or by people claiming that requiring healers to be awake would hurt casuals. Great, if we can't have more opportunities to heal, we ask for more ways to DPS. But people don't want us to ask for those, either. What CAN we ask for, then?

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Originally Posted by Katish

So using your logic against you, it's fine for tanks to gain party healing and self healing to the point of replacing healers...okay, so it should also be fine that healers get the tank treatment and be able to fill in the tank role while also having a similar dps kit to the tanks. Again, your words not mine.

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Tanks are not replacing healers lmao you are delusional. Leave the conspiracy nonsense behind and come back when you're ready to be serious.

Frankly I’m convinced the people so vehemently opposed to this are just acting contrarian/trolling rather than stating an actual opinion.

No reasonable person makes a post in a forum thread to say ‘ how dare you not like this thing I like …’

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

Tanks are not replacing healers lmao you are delusional. Leave the conspiracy nonsense behind and come back when you're ready to be serious.

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You don't dungeon enough or do healerless extremes like I do, troll better. In fact, I can run one with you right now if you need irrefutable evidence LEL.

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Originally Posted by Katish

So using your logic against you, it's fine for tanks to gain party healing and self healing to the point of replacing healers...okay, so it should also be fine healers get the tank treatment and be able to fill in the tank role while also having the tank dps kit. Again, your words not mine.

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The problem is that you either have it your way and any time a healer F'd up and die its a wipe unless the boss is almost dead and you punish the all party for the healer mistake or you gives the party a chance to succeed.

A few month ago i had a Ghimlyt Dark run where the healer dc'd mid fight on last boss nobody got mad when the paladin started to keep us alive with clemency quite the opposite actually.

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Originally Posted by Bun_Vivant

search for "#FFXIVHEALERSCAB" and educate yourself

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k

https://i.ibb.co/VVzwjqJ/IMG-1471.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sesera

The problem is that you either have it your way and any time a healer F'd up and die its a wipe unless the boss is almost dead and you punish the all party for the healer mistake or you gives the party a chance to succeed.

A few month ago i had a Ghimlyt Dark run where the healer dc'd mid fight on last boss nobody got mad when the paladin started to keep us alive with clemency quite the opposite actually.

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100% I am okay with clemency, it has a cost toward the Paladin and doesn't always guarantee a save. But did they really need all the regens and stuff for free 82+, those I have an issue with. Note: I also play all the tanks and see the bigger picture for what it is. Ghimlyt Dark does not see those given it's a 70 dungeon, so the Paladin might struggle to continue the fight...but on dungeons 82+ I can guarantee you that it becomes very very easy to do.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

The problem is that you either have it your way and any time a healer F'd up and die its a wipe unless the boss is almost dead and you punish the all party for the healer mistake or you gives the party a chance to succeed.

A few month ago i had a Ghimlyt Dark run where the healer dc'd mid fight on last boss nobody got mad when the paladin started to keep us alive with clemency quite the opposite actually.

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If a tank DC's the team struggles just as much, if not more. Singling out healers for a "but what if they DC" is not fair. And Clemency isn't the main problem, a PLD spamming Clemecy to keep a team alive through AoE's is far worse than a healer with strong AoE heals. The main issue is all the ogcd/inherent healing from tanks.

You know, people keep saying stuff like "You're a drop in the ocean" and "You can be replaced", you know what I say to that? "Don't threaten me with a good time". Someone else mind-numbingly mashing 1 on their keyboard while I have actual gameplay? Yes, all of my yes. Take the healer role, I don't want it, you'd be doing me a favour.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I find it cute that people think this will actually do anything meaningful (and I'll willingly eat my words if it turns out it does). We have a sea of over 1 million active players right now, and that's going to spike when DT comes out. The group going on "strike" is barely a grain of sand in comparison (several of whom have already in other threads pointed out they already rarely do roulettes or play outside of pre-made static or FC groups). Other people will just see that healer queues have gone from instant 95% of the time to instant 95.1% of the time (actually, they won't even notice that) and just take the insta-queue. I think people seem to be forgetting that once WoW went all-in on esports, FFXIV became the go-to MMO for relaxed, casual players who couldn't care less about people going on "strike."

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https://i.gifer.com/6x6G.gif

The 2024 Annual Awards for Most Unique Ways to Complain About Vocal Minorities goes to...

Striker44!

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

No, it's the tank saying "I want to do your job for you because I can". Because that's what tanks are thinking when they do it.

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I can't speak for all Tank players (and I hope you'll forgive my choice of words) but that's an utterly paranoiac and insane way of thinking. Unless you weren't serious of course.

Tanks have tools to reduce the amount of damage they take and thus their chances of dying (and wiping the group), they simply use them, trying to be as efficient for the group as they can be (as all party members should).

Now, I can agree that some of these tools are borderline overpowered, if not completely, but I very much doubt the whole "Tanks using cooldowns is a way to assert dominance on puny weak useless healers."