Except I have personal experience (over 3-4 years) with people who identify themselves as 'HC Raiders', personal experience in this game looking for FCs and statics before finally founding my own group, and personal experience reading and hearing what my friends who still do HC-level raiding have to say about the scene. There are problems with how we organize raids, problems with what we demand to see in our games ('to help promote the health of raiding'), and there are problems with the mindset with which we approach pick-up players.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorPepper
Does that make a statement on every single raider as an individual? Hell naw. But it makes a statement on the social norms that at this point, are pretty much baked into raiding, which become an issue when the majority of players who reach 50 only have HC raiding as their main skill-based activity.
The cycle of disbanding that keep casuals from doing content
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11-08-2014, 08:30 AMKrr
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11-08-2014, 08:44 AMDoctorPepperI can't really speak for your personal experience, I'm just saying that generalizations are typically wrong. People who have bad experiences are typically influenced/affected by those experiences more than when they have good experiences and are therefore more vocal about them. Look at the media for example, there's a reason the news is all about the bad things, it's because nobody really seems to care about the good things going on. Happy people are quiet people in most cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krr
It's unfortunate that you had some bad experiences but the fact remains that this game has an average of about 50000-100000 players per server and I doubt you've met even 0.05% of the ones on yours. Generalizations are typically based on little to no evidence, a handful of bad people doesn't make everybody bad.
Going back to your original question, why is it wrong to hate raiders. It's wrong for the same reasons that it's wrong to hate casuals. I've met plenty of casual players who are total assholes but I'm not going to blackball all the casuals I don't even know because of it. -
11-08-2014, 09:04 AMDwillAnd I have experience over 14-15 years of MMO that is literally the contrary of yours. Funny how that works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krr
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11-08-2014, 09:47 AMExstalYou'd actually have to call it #RaiderForCasualQuote:
Originally Posted by Krr
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11-08-2014, 10:06 AMAanaProtip: good raiders aren't making pfs. The shit you see in PF is usually wannabes that think they are hot stuff but got kicked out of their groups for being terrible. Otherwise those 'farming' pfs wouldn't wipe for hours if they were actually good raiders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krr
Good raiders don't make groups in pf. This is why casuals don't get what we have said 1000 times. PF is not the way raiding works. Good raiders are pulling from their network they build to create groups and find people. Not broadcasting in df shouts and pf. All these ideas you get about the raiding community from PF comments like no newbs and clear sells are NOT representative of raiders because we don't use those to raid. Network. Connect. Stop relying on PF and make friends. When I make a primal run I go through my fc, ls, and friend list. I don't make a stupid pf. You don't see what real Raiders are doing because it's silent. Stop reading pf lines and judging an entire community based on it. -
11-08-2014, 10:13 AMVynny
So your argument is that raiders are selfish inconsiderate people because after spending hours and hours of their own time learning a fight with their group they do not put up learning groups in pf and teach the casuals how to do the fight, but instead sell runs to people (who are most likely gil buyers) instead of teaching them how to actually do the fight. My question is, isn't it selfish of the casual players to expect the raiders to walk the casuals through the fights solely at the expense of the raiders time?
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11-09-2014, 09:25 AMNyarukoWYet those people treat newer players like they have ebola and want a "no newbies allowed" checkbox.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aana
Well isn't that a funny one. How do you network and connect with people who are silent? How do you break into that secret of club so silent gestures and hidden signals? I suppose it is a secret society that is not likely to accept newcomers, i.e. exclusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aana
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11-09-2014, 09:28 AMDwillYet you treat raiders like the same and want them to help anyone and everyone. The hypocritical attitude is strong in you.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyarukoW
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11-09-2014, 09:31 AMNyarukoWAsking raiders to extend a hand when they can is not hating them. The player base needs their help if and when they can extend it. And I always express my thanks for their assistance. There is no hypocritical attitude. I am asking people to try to be inclusive if they can. I don't avoid raiders and certainly do NOT consider them as ebola carriers. You are so eager to call me names that you come up with the goofiest non-sequitors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwill
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That is such a strawman. The raiders if they feel like can put up learning parties, but that is not what they need for certain and would be beyond the bounds of reasonable expectations. What they can do is if they see a learning pf, and if they have time, perhaps they can help for 30 minutes or so. Don't rage quit and yell at people when they tire of the wipes. But certainly raiders should not behave like clear sellers who obviously have the time since they are selling clears like 24/7 with advertising on the PF, and don't bother to join a learning PF that is there and being ignored by the clear seller.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vynny
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11-09-2014, 09:51 AMDwillExcept that plenty of raiders do the exact things you mention yet your tune doesn't change. You make a hyperbole of the whole situation and ignore any argument proving you wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by NyarukoW