I hope dungeons in this game aren't like western MMO dungeons

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Originally Posted by Mitsuhide

I dont care if its western, eastern, northern oder southern.
It just has to be good.

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this :3 /10

Well... not sure if this is what you meant by pop Shiyo, but instances where you have to find certain items to either make the boss appear or fight the boss sounds good too. But the items need to be randomly placed or on random monsters.

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Originally Posted by derekx

Completely agree. While I enjoyed many of those dungeons, those games had too much of an emphasis on knowing encounters instead of knowing game, class, and mob mechanics. They have their place in those games, but I don't care to see them here. I want the fight to challenge my ability to tank or to play a class, not an encyclopedia knowledge of some raid encounter.

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Agreed. :)

I like mazes, but too many specific mechanics on bosses, not so much. A few are ok.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

ps also get over yourself.. about me not playing. its not like i had a choice in that matter. And i want to stioll participate in what dev i can.

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No one said that you can not participate and post ideas but sometimes (often) you post about things that would simply require you to play game. It is a different thing to read about something or to experience the effect first hand.
That is the reason so many people get pissed at your comments.

"Pop items" means, you need to collect items and trade it to a ??? or trade it to something to pop the mob/access the zone/etc

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

"Pop items" means, you need to collect items and trade it to a ??? or trade it to something to pop the mob/access the zone/etc

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Ah. Thank you. :)

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Originally Posted by Randis

No one said that you can not participate and post ideas but sometimes (often) you post about things that would simply require you to play game. It is a different thing to read about something or to experience the effect first hand.
That is the reason so many people get pissed at your comments.

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no reason to be rude though I know I fly off sometimes. Its mostly my typing frustrations and having a hard time expressing stuff. I stoped posting in thread I may need some ingame experienjce in and stuck to general or idea topics.

Honestly I think having FF style fights with the dynamic more similar to western MMO's, the dungeons might be pretty bad ass. I think people would like them even more than if they were in games like WoW or Rift because of 3 reasons:

1. Better graphics, fights like that would be insanely good looking in XIV.

2. Camera angles and ratio of objects vs character. If you ever noticed in WoW your character is rather tiny compared to the overall environment, and you're mostly looking over the top / far behind your character. I never did like that while playing.

3. No add-ons (hopefully) I don't want my screen completely clustered with crap, especially the ones that actually tell me what I have to do. That made even the bigger dungeons boring no matter how hard the fight was.

SE has my vote for randomly generated maps and enemies!

On a side note: I wonder if they will require items like they did in Dynamis/Limbus to enter the dungeons. They really need some way to get gil off the servers.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

Honestly I think having FF style fights with the dynamis more similar to western MMO's the dungeons might be pretty bad ass. I think people would like them even more than if they were in games like WoW or Rift because of 2 reason:

1. Better graphics, fights like that would be insanely good looking in XIV.

2. Camera angles and ratio of objects vs character. If you ever noticed in WoW your character is rather tiny compared to the overall environment, and you're mostly looking over the top / far behind your character. I never did like that while playing.

3. No add-ons (hopefully) I don't want my screen completely clustered with crap, especially the ones that actually tell me what I have to do. That made even the bigger dungeons boring no matter how hard the fight was.

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You do have a point with that. I suppose the common thread here is variety. No reason there can't be a more traditional instance as well I suppose.

I never used add-ons, except recount to measure my performance. I found it funny when people would complain things were too easy, then come to find they had so many addons, they might as well just let the computer take over and watch the show.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

3. No add-ons (hopefully) I don't want my screen completely clustered with crap, especially the ones that actually tell me what I have to do. That made even the bigger dungeons boring no matter how hard the fight was.

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Widgets aren't so bad especially in a scenario with changing or randomized objectives (think Dynamis or Nyzul) where one action/event triggers others. Having an on-screen objective widget helps players retain focus and aids those who glance over directives within their chatlog. But what could accompany this is widget toggle commands like (/mapdisplay).

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Originally Posted by Chezen

You do have a point with that. I suppose the common thread here is variety. No reason there can't be a more traditional instance as well I suppose.

I never used add-ons, except recount to measure my performance. I found it funny when people would complain things were too easy, then come to find they had so many addons, they might as well just let the computer take over and watch the show.

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like my all time fav
DON'T STAND IN THE FIRE add on
i found it funny ppl in WoW said addons don't playu the game for you, but infact it did. It told you want to expect or when to move. went to job or where to stand. when to cast. it may as well played fopr you if you need to be told such things. Like don;t stand in the fire.... >.> that should be common sence from any gamer... name 1 game where standing in fire was good?

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I'm no fan of WoW, but hating something just because WoW has it will male this game pretty limited. And all ffxi content had class resrictions based, but that was based on players.

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Ever think they hated it in WoW? Not hate it because it's in WoW? I really don't like these type of instances I'm all for instances that are like a sand box and fun to explore but I don't want a set path I have to take each time with the same monster sin the same room saying the same thing. People complain about copy/pasted maps in XIV the only thing worse IMO is copy/pasted end game content.

Is anyone else hoping for more original dungeon/battles/events like Nyzul and Assaults? I know I am. Friends making me play WoW right now and their dungeons are so ^#46ing boring. I loved the objectives Nyzul had and wish that SE would expand on their awesome instances.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

I love your website :X

And limbus is different because you port from area to area, it's lowmannable or zergable, you need to collect "pop items" to pop the two major bosses, while farming the pop items you get items you can trade in for +1 AF, you get beastcoins for special items/+1 AF, you can sell beastcoins, etc. There's also time extension chests, loot chests, and full restore chests. You had to choose between the 3 depending on your situation a lot. It just feels different imo, and was.

Western MMO dungeons are:
1) Clear trash for 15 mins
2) Kill boss
3) Repeat x3-5
4) Required a set number of people ALWAYS(boring)
5) Tuned exactly for that "gear level" and set party limit(boring)

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You apparently haven't played wow recently then :P

1. Wow instances are zergable, infact I've had people just DRAG the entire mob army with them from the start to a boss, literally everything. This is very true for low level instances and or "normal" difficulty instances. (With a good tank anyway, some take it slow and pull 1 group of mobs at a time)

2. Technically you do have to clear bosses in an area in some instances or certain mobs, or hit certain switches "aka pop items" to spawn/be able to fight a final boss. (for instance dire maul requires killing and deactivating "arcane barrier consoles" to be able to fight the final boss).

3. There are item chests in wow (with sometimes "epic" gear) aka loot chest. If you do "random dungeon" you get tokens which you can trade in to get "Exp bonus gear for lvling or high level epic pve/pvp gear (or old world gear/content or crafting materials or mounts or pets etc etc)

4. Limbus back when I did it about 5-6 years ago was slow, you could do it with 2 BLM but it took like 45min+ (for like 1/2 the instance), sort of like you can do a 5man wow instance with 2-3 but it will be slow. With current content of both FFXI and Wow however, I doubt it takes every long even with a few FFXI and especially wow (5man instances I've done can be anywhere from 8min to 20min) namely because of bad players, I'm sure ffxi has bad players also however :P

5. Wow instances are tuned for a level range not gear (till your doing heroic/hardmode instancing very late in the game). Before that you can basically go in a high level "normal" instance naked with a gun if you wanted to and still get a group within 5-8min (yes I have done that, was trying to fix a gear swap mod).

Overall unless SE really changed limbus over the years I haven't played it (although I hear people just jump in abyssa at Lv 30 and go to Lv 70 within a day now?) It doesn't seem too different excluding the scenery/mobs :P

I doubt that Yoshi P will want a wow clone anyway though, as I'm sure in one way or another he's seeing the NA response to "ZOMG NO WOW CLONE PLZ THXS" spam on the forums so they will probably makeup something different.

I'm really hoping though, they don't do more world NM's... even with the current low populations, the world NM (namely just this one) Dodore is over camped, especially during JP hours when you see over 10 mules at the aether jsut waiting for the weather change O_o

I just recently crafted my own dodore doublet after all this time, because JP competition is fierce on here for dodore ;/

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Originally Posted by Grimm

Ever think they hated it in WoW? Not hate it because it's in WoW? I really don't like these type of instances I'm all for instances that are like a sand box and fun to explore but I don't want a set path I have to take each time with the same monster sin the same room saying the same thing. People complain about copy/pasted maps in XIV the only thing worse IMO is copy/pasted end game content.

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ever did dynmis? you pretty much stuck going the same path each run. And dungeons have pretty much set paths.... thats why its a dungeon not a field. Also every ff game had set paths to stuff. as well as well every rpg,

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Originally Posted by Gulkeeva

5. Wow instances are tuned for a level range not gear (till your doing heroic/hardmode instancing very late in the game). Before that you can basically go in a high level "normal" instance naked with a gun if you wanted to and still get a group within 5-8min (yes I have done that, was trying to fix a gear swap mod).

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My brother plays WoW and he says they go by AVG item lvl now instead of gear score, not char lvl. ''You have to get the better gear to go in the new raids'' Direct quote from him just now as he is playing.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

ever did dynmis? you pretty much stuck going the same path each run. And dungeons have pretty much set paths.... thats why its a dungeon not a field. Also every ff game had set paths to stuff. as well as well every rpg,

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I wasn't debating FFXI I was saying maybe they just disliked the content in WoW Because they disliked it not because they have hate for WoW.

And some games make it alot less obvious about paths and give you ''options''.

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Originally Posted by Grimm

My brother plays WoW and he says they go by AVG item lvl now instead of gear score, not char lvl. ''You have to get the better gear to go in the new raids'' Direct quote from him just now as he is playing.

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Yeah i.. mentioned it in my post you just quoted >.>
Normal/easy mode instances don't require an an average gear level, "heroics" however do and you cannot que/do them or enter them as you get a Gear level too low notice.

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Originally Posted by Gulkeeva

You apparently haven't played wow recently then :P

1. Wow instances are zergable, infact I've had people just DRAG the entire mob army with them from the start to a boss, literally everything. This is very true for low level instances and or "normal" difficulty instances. (With a good tank anyway, some take it slow and pull 1 group of mobs at a time)

2. Technically you do have to clear bosses in an area in some instances or certain mobs, or hit certain switches "aka pop items" to spawn/be able to fight a final boss. (for instance dire maul requires killing and deactivating "arcane barrier consoles" to be able to fight the final boss).

3. There are item chests in wow (with sometimes "epic" gear) aka loot chest. If you do "random dungeon" you get tokens which you can trade in to get "Exp bonus gear for lvling or high level epic pve/pvp gear (or old world gear/content or crafting materials or mounts or pets etc etc)

4. Limbus back when I did it about 5-6 years ago was slow, you could do it with 2 BLM but it took like 45min+ (for like 1/2 the instance), sort of like you can do a 5man wow instance with 2-3 but it will be slow. With current content of both FFXI and Wow however, I doubt it takes every long even with a few FFXI and especially wow (5man instances I've done can be anywhere from 8min to 20min) namely because of bad players, I'm sure ffxi has bad players also however :P

5. Wow instances are tuned for a level range not gear (till your doing heroic/hardmode instancing very late in the game). Before that you can basically go in a high level "normal" instance naked with a gun if you wanted to and still get a group within 5-8min (yes I have done that, was trying to fix a gear swap mod).

Overall unless SE really changed limbus over the years I haven't played it (although I hear people just jump in abyssa at Lv 30 and go to Lv 70 within a day now?) It doesn't seem too different excluding the scenery/mobs :P

I doubt that Yoshi P will want a wow clone anyway though, as I'm sure in one way or another he's seeing the NA response to "ZOMG NO WOW CLONE PLZ THXS" spam on the forums so they will probably makeup something different.

I'm really hoping though, they don't do more world NM's... even with the current low populations, the world NM (namely just this one) Dodore is over camped, especially during JP hours when you see over 10 mules at the aether jsut waiting for the weather change O_o

I just recently crafted my own dodore doublet after all this time, because JP competition is fierce on here for dodore ;/

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I have played wow since WotLK came out and this has not been my experience with wow. Some instances are zergable, but not to the extent you say unless you massively out level or out gear the instance. Instances in wow are heavily based on gear. Early instances don't really count because they are way out of date and are usually only done for content or bonus rewards. Level cap dungeons all have gear requirements to enter now, and before limits were system imposed they were player imposed. Many fights in end game are refereed to as "gear checks". Many fights require certain dps or hps to do them at all.

I'm not interested in these types of systems in FFXIV. There is skill to being a good dps or tank in wow, but not the kind of skill I want in FFXIV. If you ever have done much end game content in wow (or similar) and FFXI I think you can appreciate my last statement.

Edit: Here is and old endgame wow instance: http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...inger-Saurfang

This one is more straight forward for an endgame wow instance. If your in the mood check the Professor Putricide encounter. That was retarded. For that matter check any of the new encounters in Cataclysm.

They are fine for wow, but don't want them in this game.

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Originally Posted by derekx

I have played wow since WotLK came out and this has not been my experience with wow. Some instances are zergable, but not to the extent you say unless you massively out level or out gear the instance. Instances in wow are heavily based on gear. Early instances don't really count because they are way out of date and are usually only done for content or bonus rewards. Level cap dungeons all have gear requirements to enter now, and before limits were system imposed they were player imposed. Many fights in end game are refereed to as "gear checks". Many fights require certain dps or hps to do them at all.

I'm not interested in these types of systems in FFXIV. There is skill to being a good dps or tank in wow, but not the kind of skill I want in FFXIV. If you ever have done much end game content in wow (or similar) and FFXI I think you can appreciate my last statement.

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Each expansions "buffs" made talents and damage for abilities strong so it scales up for the end game. I'm sure you have at some point tried old content with "new content" gear for instance you can get Wotlk gear at Lv68 (including enchants etc) I'm sure that made stuff easy leveling there right? Its the same for Lv 78->80 it makes stuff really easy right.

Current talents/abilities are made to be "optimal" at Lv 85, so before that your abilities are somewhat overpowered. Blizzard even SAID in a blue post (before cata) that they may be removing/making harder to obtain some "hard mode special content because cata talents makes things way too easy".


Anyway I do agree with you I wouldn't want WoW heroic raid style stuff in FFXIV, the difficulty difference between FFXI/FFXIV and Wow content is miles apart, and would cause alot of rage most likely (that and the FFXIV team probably isn't used to making such content and would be all kinds of wtf going on).

I liked the ffxi "endgame" because its relaxing (and or a wipe fest but still relaxing!), I can sit and eat dinner, watch a movie on the side or something while tanking dodore/ buffalo/tiamat/niddhogg etc (or dpsing) in wow... they don't happen ;/

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Originally Posted by Gulkeeva

You apparently haven't played wow recently then :P

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I played WOW for over 5 years, I played since day1 of release, I even played beta. I've played CAT, however, I don't do much PVE, I only did heroics and the first few bosses of one of the raid dungeons on 25 man and the "voa" boss on 10/25.

What I meant by zerging was, bringing an entire alliance to clear a full zone of limbus, in WOW 5 man dungeons are capped at that, 5 people, 25 man are capped at 25, etc etc.

I just REALLY dislike the gear progession system, where old gear is instantly outdated when they release a new "tier" because you can get the old tier gear by running the same boring heroics you outgeared in the gear FROM THEM @ release. Heroics were fun in quest greens in CAT, once I got full heroic gear they became a complete joke. However in FFXI gear wasn't as powerful or strong, and not outdated as fast(or ever at all until abyssea which compmletely destroyed the game), which I like a lot more.

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Originally Posted by Boricua

Widgets aren't so bad especially in a scenario with changing or randomized objectives (think Dynamis or Nyzul) where one action/event triggers others. Having an on-screen objective widget helps players retain focus and aids those who glance over directives within their chatlog. But what could accompany this is widget toggle commands like (/mapdisplay).

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With event triggers I wouldn't mind if something was built into the game that told you where to go on your screen. I just don't want all that cluster from the add-ons. It's one of the biggest things I disliked about playing WoW. It completely ruins the atmosphere of the game in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

I played WOW for over 5 years, I played since day1 of release, I even played beta. I've played CAT, however, I don't do much PVE, I only did heroics and the first few bosses of one of the raid dungeons on 25 man and the "voa" boss on 10/25.

What I meant by zerging was, bringing an entire alliance to clear a full zone of limbus, in WOW 5 man dungeons are capped at that, 5 people, 25 man are capped at 25, etc etc.

I just REALLY dislike the gear progession system, where old gear is instantly outdated when they release a new "tier" because you can get the old tier gear by running the same boring heroics you outgeared in the gear FROM THEM @ release. Heroics were fun in quest greens in CAT, once I got full heroic gear they became a complete joke. However in FFXI gear wasn't as powerful or strong, and not outdated as fast(or ever at all until abyssea which compmletely destroyed the game), which I like a lot more.

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Well gotta have a change of gear once in awhile, alot people like "new stuff", might be why SE added abyssea and all that fancy looking new gear,

I dont really care how they are to be honest. I dont see anything wrong with western style dungeons. Although I do prefer the outdoor style of FFXI. But these are been instanced.... so I dont really see how they can make it similar to FFXI. I wouldnt mind seeing WoW or western style dungeons in FFXIV. So be it. I just want something to do. Content, Yes Please.

Oh yeah! Because dynamis was so awesome and different!

Different strokes for different folks I guess, personally I think WoW style dungeons are pretty unbeatable (mainly the ones from OG WoW). They were fun and never got old no matter how many times you ran them. FF11 type instances were Boooooooooooring, except the to 100 nyzul and that was the only one to me that was remotely fun. (To clarify I am a long time FFXI vet and it is my most played game ever) That is my 2 cents on this topic.

I understand what you guys are saying about gear but you know better than anyone else this is a FF style and the game will not be like WoW in anyway so quit thinking it will. Also this topic wasn't about gear it was about dungeon design and play styles that go with that.

Anything repeatable will get boring from time to time, regardless if it is a copy from WoW or XI..

There are some things Blizzard just did right with their instances, I hope that SE recognizes what worked and incorporates that. I also hope they incorporate some of the things they did right in XI. I don't want a clone of either, I'd like to see elements from various end games that worked incorporated into XIV's implementation.

Everyone can rest assured that the raid dungeons and content that we're planning to implement in the future will feature not only tough battles, but also challenging and exhilarating bosses. The nitty-gritty details are tied into the future rollout of Grand Companies which we'll be announcing the juicy particulars of at a later date. I hope you're all looking forward to it with bated breath!

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Everyone can rest assured that the raid dungeons and content that we're planning to implement in the future will feature not only tough battles, but also challenging and exhilarating bosses. The nitty-gritty details are tied into the future rollout of Grand Companies which we'll be announcing the juicy particulars of at a later date. I hope you're all looking forward to it with bated breath!

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Awesome! Thank you sir! ^_^; You made my day! <3 <3

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Awesome! Thank you sir! ^_^; You made my day! <3 <3

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^^ I'm glad.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Everyone can rest assured that the raid dungeons and content that we're planning to implement in the future will feature not only tough battles, but also challenging and exhilarating bosses. The nitty-gritty details are tied into the future rollout of Grand Companies which we'll be announcing the juicy particulars of at a later date. I hope you're all looking forward to it with bated breath!

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^this made my day. I can't wait!

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Everyone can rest assured that the raid dungeons and content that we're planning to implement in the future will feature not only tough battles, but also challenging and exhilarating bosses. The nitty-gritty details are tied into the future rollout of Grand Companies which we'll be announcing the juicy particulars of at a later date. I hope you're all looking forward to it with bated breath!

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Oh no! What did you do. Now they have to find something else to cry about!

On a serious note. Thanks Bayohne! I was already expecting this, but it is always nice to hear it from you guys. I hope the developers take their time and release some challenging and tough battles when they are finished and not sooner because some people can't seem to wait.

I hope to see requierment for dungeon, by exemple, To grant access to Odin's chamber you have to gatherer somes feathers from others chambers, so you can't do Odin's chamber everytime, and so, we get less bored of the dungeons.

I played a lot of wow, aion, and others stuff, and what i hate most from it, is the game is only a dungeon thing, everyone are in town, all others area... total desert, plus, we have to grind again & again & again the same dungeon to get the ubber item you want. i like limbus too, same thing as Odin's chambers, we have to clear some zone to get access to the boss, we can't kill it in only one run, but the reward at the end are great and each zone need for get access to the last boss are different so we dont get bored.

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Originally Posted by Nexxus

I hope to see requierment for dungeon, by exemple, To grant access to Odin's chamber you have to gatherer somes feathers from others chambers, so you can't do Odin's chamber everytime, and so, we get less bored of the dungeons.

I played a lot of wow, aion, and others stuff, and what i hate most from it, is the game is only a dungeon thing, everyone are in town, all others area... total desert, plus, we have to grind again & again & again the same dungeon to get the ubber item you want. i like limbus too, same thing as Odin's chambers, we have to clear some zone to get access to the boss, we can't kill it in only one run, but the reward at the end are great and each zone need for get access to the last boss are different so we dont get bored.

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Yeah I agree, those games don't feel like actual MMOS at all.

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Originally Posted by Nexxus

I hope to see requierment for dungeon, by exemple, To grant access to Odin's chamber you have to gatherer somes feathers from others chambers, so you can't do Odin's chamber everytime, and so, we get less bored of the dungeons.

I played a lot of wow, aion, and others stuff, and what i hate most from it, is the game is only a dungeon thing, everyone are in town, all others area... total desert, plus, we have to grind again & again & again the same dungeon to get the ubber item you want. i like limbus too, same thing as Odin's chambers, we have to clear some zone to get access to the boss, we can't kill it in only one run, but the reward at the end are great and each zone need for get access to the last boss are different so we dont get bored.

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And how is that any different than FF14 currently, most people gather in Ul'dah and correct me if I'm wrong but didn't we have to grind mobs over and over to get loot in FF11.

Get over yourself people, grinding is the staple of any MMO whether it be Western or Asian.

As I said before you have to clear bosses in WoW raids before you can fight other boses, you can't just walk into Icecrown Citadel and kill The Lich King ya know.

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Yeah I agree, those games don't feel like actual MMOS at all.

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You do understand what MMO stands for right ?

Great news. :D
Btw i hope these dungeon will have also some other challanges like riddles to solve or something to find to procede like Nexxus said.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Everyone can rest assured that the raid dungeons and content that we're planning to implement in the future will feature not only tough battles, but also challenging and exhilarating bosses. The nitty-gritty details are tied into the future rollout of Grand Companies which we'll be announcing the juicy particulars of at a later date. I hope you're all looking forward to it with bated breath!

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High five for you, and yes I am waiting with bated breath :D.

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Originally Posted by Munba

Great news. :D
Btw i hope these dungeon will have also some other challanges like riddles to solve

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Without giving too much away... Let's just say... I hope everyone can read and speak fluent Latin!

(Just kiddin')

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Without giving too much away... Let's just say... I hope everyone can read and speak fluent Latin!

(Just kiddin')

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Ahah :D

But maybe you mean... something about Eorzean alphabet? ..don't worry, i know you can't go in details for now eheh