Can Meteor's next job not be melee?

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Originally Posted by NightHour

It's confirmed to be a Physical Ranged and a Tank.

We don't need another melee until at least 10.0 in my opinion.

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probably be a striking DPS and Healer in 9.0

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Originally Posted by Duskane

probably be a striking DPS and Healer in 9.0

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And 10.0 would be double DPS again. So it could be Stormblood/Dawntrail in being 1 caster and 1 melee, alternatively they could shake that up and give double melee in the form of 1 maiming and 1 scouting.

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Originally Posted by Valence

As a full European with no American side myself, reading this just made my day.

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As a person who is Swiss and Australian (both passports) I can confirm my evil European side usually just tells me to buy more laeckerlies

really longwinded discussion to say "Reaper is my main please don't take this away from me"

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

He already did, at one of the HW ones IIRC

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ah okay, I did very briefly try to look up a list but couldn't find one so that's cool.

On topic, I do kind have trouble seeing Meteor a Disciple of Magic at this point but I would like to see him use a phys ranged job again

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

really longwinded discussion to say "Reaper is my main please don't take this away from me"



ah okay, I did very briefly try to look up a list but couldn't find one so that's cool.

On topic, I do kind have trouble seeing Meteor a Disciple of Magic at this point but I would like to see him use a phys ranged job again

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It's funny because no one is asking to change meteor from a Reaper to something else. I don't think Reaper was a thematically strong choice, but that's already been decided. Who knows how many more expansions there will be, but if FFXIV does continue on for many more, I would just get very tired if all we see is 9.0 Striking DPS, Ninja, 8.0 Tank, Gunbreaker, etc.

I'm actually surprised he's not been a Black Mage, yet. It's probably the most iconic job in the Final Fantasy franchise, and I struggle to see him dropping a fireball the size of a house as less hype than the melee stuff he gets up to.

That said, knowing a good bit of Norse myth thanks to a closeness to Heathenry, Reaper isn't a bad choice. There is a lot of really interesting thematic potential there, and I also just LIKE Reaper.

The doubters will be looking stupid after Berlin or Tokyo, it's whatever man.

How do we know your “creepy European side” isn’t making you say that

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

How do we know your “creepy European side” isn’t making you say that

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Do you only care about snarking, trolling and rage baiting or are you going to tell me why Dancer and White Mage fit the Evercold theme like a completely delusional person? You haven't made one decent point in this entire discussion yet, 7000 logged posts and this is the best you have to say lmao. At least ty_taurus is trying and I can respect that even if we agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

I've already explained this multiple times in this thread but I'll do it again I guess since you haven't read them:

First I will have to ask you to look at this for convenience sake: https://imgur.com/a/DCH7aFe

Obviously what I am about to say is all speculation and they will not copy Norse Mythology 1:1, but it's clearly themed around Norse Mythology.

In The Fourth the Sky Islands are supposed to be the Norse Realms. The land we see in the trailer with the Snowstorm is probably the equivalent of Midgard which they had to abandon due to uninhabitable weather, fleeing to the Sky Islands. If all the Nine Realms are explorable it makes sense that we will eventually end up exploring the equivalent of the underworld Helheim, which is the land of the dead that is under the frozen lands that is Midgard. This is probably the early favorite for being the Final Zone in Evercold.

A central theme of Norse Mythology is obviously, Death. You see this in God of War where there are a bunch of dead spirits roaming the various Realms and you typically need to fight or help them. Obviously in FFXIV the Reaper is the Job that is most synonymous with Death besides probably Dark Knight. Obviously Reapers in a general context are supposed to be the arbiter of Death as when you see one you are die. In XIV this isn't 1:1 but the Job quest and Reaper lore does a pretty good job establishing this identity. The villain in the Job questline is pretty insane if you remember him. It's pretty poetic that the finale of the Reaper questline is in Coerthas Western Highlands which is a winter zone with a lot of Death surrounding it. Go replay the Reaper questline before Evercold if you haven't, very good stuff.

Another theme with Norse Mythology is Possession, I shouldn't need to explain this if you have played God of War. Reaper is thematically involved with Possession as letting a Voidsent possess you is the main gameplay of the Job and this is magnified further when Enshrouding. I'm pretty sure at one point Zenos does end up possessing us during In From The Cold and we almost die. Yes I think a Dancer and White Mage would fit this theming so much, wow everyone.

Evercold will probably be a more creepy expansion if they are basing it on Norse Mythology and Reaper fits this horror identity better than most Jobs.

A notable theme with Reaper is that it's this lone wolf of the XIV Jobs. We clearly see this with Zenos in Endwalker as he struggled with his own isolation as he truly believed he had no equal and was superior to everyone besides the WoL. Therefore he ends up hunting the WoL at all costs to fulfill his own selfish desires even if that meant bringing his home, Etheirys, to ruin by working with Fandaniel to render The Final Days upon the Star. Throughout Endwalker he surpasses his humanoid limits and does multiple events that were originally considered impossible like possessing our body to torture us, awakening Zodiark with the intention of being his vessel to defeat us, and following us to the edge of the universe to have his final battle. By all means Zenos surpassed all expectations and was supposed to be XIV's interpretation of a Grim Reaper as an entity who is this personification of Death but in a more PG Final Fantasy manner. They will probably dig much deeper with the Zenos and WoL parallels in Evercold as what I am talking about was directly referenced in 7.5 by Halmarut. I'm assuming a main theme of Evercold is that the WoL will struggle interally with their evil side and more selfish desires which is very fitting of a Reaper. After Dawntrail I believe the WoL wants to enjoy themselves again by any means and is tired of saving the world for the tenth time, which isn't necessarily bad and we'll see how it plays out in Evercold.

Obviously this isn't all that Norse Mythology has, there is a lot of awesome parts which we will experience in the Sky Islands. Expansion is themed a lot on FFXIII which is unsurprisingly a Norse inspired game. Especially since they are covering Fimbulwinter and potentially Ragnarok which are the awful parts of Norse Mythology we shouldn't be surprised if this Expansion is more on the creepy and high stakes side.

If you still can't comprehend everything that's totally fine as they will reveal much more at Berlin and Tokyo obviously. NA Fanfest wasn't heavy on the story at all. But again they picked Reaper as the canonical Job for a multitude of reasons. They weren't throwing darts and it happened to land on Reaper. 7.5 MSQ makes this clear and the Evercold trailer make this clear.

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Literally go back and look how idiotic your response was here, I don't think you even read the post. They literally showed an Asgard equivalent as a in-game rendered city and Evercold has this clear Norse Theme, but yes the Nine Realms has no influence at all on the Evercold Sky Islands I guess despite them showing Muspelheim.

You’ve done absolutely zero in my eyes to justify why RPR matches evercold’s themes because

1) you don’t even know evercold’s themes you are extrapolating incredibly vague Norse mythology themes that apply to just about any religious mythos and hoping you are correct

2) even if the themes do closely match Norse mythology like a GOW style then your relationship of RPR to themes is still incredibly tenuous to the point of pointlessness; “Norse mythology has a lot of death”, that’s not a theme, that’s religious mythology in a nutshell. And then you tried to connect RPR’s visual design to the western representation of the grim reaper; which has zero connection to Norse mythology anyway. So you have taken a non existent connection then made an unrealistic leap of logic with it. Can you disprove my linking of your nebulous “themes” to Christianity or Greek mythology

And if you don’t want people snarking don’t make weird and frankly insulting comments about people from Europe

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You’ve done absolutely zero in my eyes to justify why RPR matches evercold’s themes because

1) you don’t even know evercold’s themes you are extrapolating incredibly vague Norse mythology themes that apply to just about any religious mythos and hoping you are correct

2) even if the themes do closely match Norse mythology like a GOW style then your relationship of RPR to themes is still incredibly tenuous to the point of pointlessness; “Norse mythology has a lot of death”, that’s not a theme, that’s religious mythology in a nutshell. Can you disprove my linking of your nebulous “themes” to Christianity or Greek mythology

And if you don’t want people snarking don’t make weird and frankly insulting comments about people from Europe

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I mean like I say again one of us will be proven an total idiot at Berlin and Tokyo, and I don't think it will be me as they have chosen Reaper to be the WoL Job for obvious reasons. So agree to disagree, but at the same time the developers themselves agree with one of us so clearly I have a point.

Reminder that this was a comment from you:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

………what?

Your evidence is that the sky islands mentioned in the trailer will be like the Norse realms and Norse mythology has a lot of death?

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7000 forum posts and you somehow act this ignorant when they quite literally shove the Nine Realms influence in your eyes with the in-game showcases and concept art. I bet you were saying this same silly stuff before Shadowbringers, Endwalker and Dawntrail also hahahah. "Endwalker has no IV influence" despite the Towers being dungeons. "Dawntrail has no IX influence" despite Viper using Zidane's weapons, type shh.

Mmm yes nothing Nine Realms here: https://imgur.com/a/n6zCbd6. Asgard equivalent: https://imgur.com/a/xOXylAF. Oh wow look it's Asgard again!: https://imgur.com/a/udTDkoD. Again??? How is this possible!: https://imgur.com/a/Pi5XjnL.

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

Do you only care about snarking, trolling and rage baiting or are you going to tell me why Dancer and White Mage fit the Evercold theme like a completely delusional person?

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Rich of you to accuse others of trolling when your own posts have been condescending, biased, and repeatedly derailing the thread. On top of insulting others for not agreeing I'm starting to think you're the trolling ragebaiter here, ngl

Wrong again

If you actually read my comments you’ll find I have no problem believing evercold is Norse themed

I’m saying your justification for why Norse means RPR is non existent

For someone so quick to jump to insults you don’t read my comments

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

The doubters will be looking stupid after Berlin or Tokyo, it's whatever man.

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Doubting what, exactly?

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

Do you only care about snarking, trolling and rage baiting or are you going to tell me why Dancer and White Mage fit the Evercold theme like a completely delusional person? You haven't made one decent point in this entire discussion yet, 7000 logged posts and this is the best you have to say lmao. At least ty_taurus is trying and I can respect that even if we agree to disagree.

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If we're talking about jobs that would fit Evercold better, if the realm is overwhelmed by ice aether, which we understand to be an element of stasis closest to light, Black Mage bringing an abundance of fire aether is the element to counteract the ice, like darkness was for The First, but I can understand reserving Black Mage for whatever shard was affected by the Sixth Umbral Calamity along with White Mage, as I've echoed. But Summoner bringing Phoenix is perhaps what I would consider to be the most appropriate choice with the former reservation in mind. I can see an argument for dancer bringing the physical opposite to stasis. I don't find it to the strongest option in hindsight, but there are a lot of thematic aspects to dance being a foil to cold and stillness from a real-world standpoint. Given that there seems to be some inspiration from FFX with the Sin-like enemies, had the new Physical Ranged DPS actually been the Blitz Ace, that would've been a fitting choice. Going with the Norse theme and also the tone of the trailer being the tales of our heroics after succeeding, Bard would also feel quite fitting. I mentioned earlier as well, Bard could be a good representation of the beginning of a new arc as meteor did start by taking up Archer in 1.0 while never upgrading to Bard afterward.

imagine if the new class was a healer - Songstress. It would of been absolutely hilarious if at the end of the EC teaser, he's glammed up rather than being a reaper lmfao

Whole lotta back and forth and not a whole lot of sense made, I see

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

And this just makes no sense but you probably don't have the context yet. You need to read up about Norse Mythology like Yoshida has told us to. Maybe play the Norse God of War games as they are really fun and Yoshida is a really big God of War fan himself that's a big inspiration for FFXVI, so you will quickly see the inspiration for Evercold. Then should probably understand how Reaper fits into the more creepy/horror aspects of Norse Myth thematically. Scandinavian Lore is notably creepy and weird. I say this as a half-Scandinavian whose European side has made me do some pretty creepy... stuff, so I'm not bullshitting here lol.

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Setting aside the 'made me do creepy stuff' sounding like you're admitting to real world crimes or immoral actions, how is Reaper, at all, 'fits Norse Mythology'? If it were Norse in any way, we'd have ability names that reference Helheim, or Ragnarok, or Jormangundr (would be a more fitting name for VPR's LB3 than the current one IMO), instead they're all either generic 'dark' sounding words like Infernal, Hell's Egress/Ingress, Enshroud, or they're Latin because of the Garlean lore with Communio, Sacrificium and Perfectio. You're reaching big time

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

Sure a completely different game but both use the exact same mythology as inspiration. Yoshida is a huge God of War fan I am not making this up, that's literally a big reason why he made FFXVI the way he did. If you're trying to outright deny the Norse Mythology influence in Evercold then I'm not sure if this is a serious discussion anymore, but I can't tell if you are.

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Not them, but I'm personally not denying that there might be some Norse inspiration in EC, I'm denying that the said Norse inspiration has anything at all to do with Reaper

If Yoshida was as big a 'huge GOW fan' as you're so rabidly insinuating, surely he'd have also played the games in the series that are based on the Greek Pantheon, of which there are more entries? Why's his enjoyment of GOW somehow evidence that Reaper has Norse Mythology links at all? You're conflating 'How does Reaper 'fit' the Norse theme' with 'Is there a Norse theme in the first place', and the answers to those two are different, with the first being 'I have no clue what you're on about, because to me nothing about Reaper is 'Norse' themed', and the other is 'yeh there's probably some Norse inspiration for the architecture of some of the buildings they showed'

Side note, is your entire frame of reference for 'what is Norse Mythology' just what you learned from God of War? Becuase you mention it a lot, and other sources seem to be conspicuously missing

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Originally Posted by Coolyy

They saw Dawntrail's reception and still decided to make the WoL Melee again, so what does that indicate to you?

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What it indicates to me, is that the level of success an expansion has, and the 'poster job' in the trailer for said expansion, have absolutely nothing to do with one another, and as such, they could do a WHM, or a Dancer, or hell a Fisher, and it'd still sell just as well. Rather, they decide to have Melee/Tanks as the 'poster job' each time, not for financial reasons, but for some other reason like 'they find it easier to concept fight scenes with a Melee guy rather than trying to think of how to make Magic guy work in the same scene'

You know what’s funny is it would actually go so hard if when panning through a new city in a trailer, they showed off th crafting area briefly and showed meteor in a crafter or gatherer job working on a project, or showing off some new jewelry for an excited NPC, or maybe showing off a new legendary fish they caught. You could even have them as a Botanist showing off some fresh vegetables for Gra’ha to eat since that’s the running gag I guess. It’d be all of 3 seconds of screen time of course, but you’d hear nothing but cheers for the representation.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Wrong again

If you actually read my comments you’ll find I have no problem believing evercold is Norse themed

I’m saying your justification for why Norse means RPR is non existent

For someone so quick to jump to insults you don’t read my comments

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Apparently you did say that Endwalker has no FF4 influence and Dawntrail has no FF9 influence whatsoever which checkmates any argument you have. It's a thing now and you'll have to take responsibility. Please recognize you were wrong about this right this instant.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Apparently you did say that Endwalker has no FF4 influence and Dawntrail has no FF9 influence whatsoever which checkmates any argument you have. It's a thing now and you'll have to take responsibility. Please recognize you were wrong about this right this instant.

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Must be my evil European side getting the best of me

Should have bought more Laekerlies

As much as I love the idea of meteor in skimpy little dancer gear, I just don't think they'd get away with it. It gives the dude bro crowd something to power fantasize over if meteor is dressed up in some tank or melee gear.

We'd get even more people screaming that FFXIV has gone "woke" if they dressed up their poster child in a white mage dress.

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Originally Posted by boigerking

As much as I love the idea of meteor in skimpy little dancer gear, I just don't think they'd get away with it. It gives the dude bro crowd something to power fantasize over if meteor is dressed up in some tank or melee gear.

We'd get even more people screaming that FFXIV has gone "woke" if they dressed up their poster child in a white mage dress.

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Ah yes, because male dancers only ever wear bikinis and thongs. Never in human history has a male dancer worn anything masculine ever.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Ah yes, because male dancers only ever wear bikinis and thongs. Never in human history has a male dancer worn anything masculine ever.

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With this game's artifact dancer gear? No, they're not what the average person would consider masculine. Never did I say male dancer's haven't worn anything masculine ever, but with the dancer gear they've given us in the past (and the concept art for the dnc AF gear for evercold we saw), I don't think they're going to change that anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by boigerking

With this game's artifact dancer gear? No, they're not what the average person would consider masculine. Never did I say male dancer's haven't worn anything masculine ever, but with the dancer gear they've given us in the past (and the concept art for the dnc AF gear for evercold we saw), I don't think they're going to change that anytime soon.

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Using Evercold’s dancer Artifact gear concept art is irrelevant because of meteor ever does get featured as a dancer, it won’t be for Evercold. I would imagine if they made that decision, the artifact gear of that expansion would feature something more heroic for the masculine set. For as little as they like to innovate on artifact gear, dancer’s masculine sets actually have been fairly different across expansions.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Using Evercold’s dancer Artifact gear concept art is irrelevant because of meteor ever does get featured as a dancer, it won’t be for Evercold. I would imagine if they made that decision, the artifact gear of that expansion would feature something more heroic for the masculine set. For as little as they like to innovate on artifact gear, dancer’s masculine sets actually have been fairly different across expansions.

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It has nothing to do with masculine or feminine. all expansions had featured jobs that made sense thematically. In the next one,he will be a reaper.

Dancer boat sailed in SHB and it would have been weird to be dancer because they used the female Viera, which they were launching to introduce the class.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

It has nothing to do with masculine or feminine. all expansions had featured jobs that made sense thematically. In the next one,he will be a reaper.

Dancer boat sailed in SHB and it would have been weird to be dancer because they used the female Viera, which they were launching to introduce the class.

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Okay, someone needs to explain to me where this idea comes from that there’s any question or doubt about what job he’s repping in the Evercold trailer because I feel like I’m having a stroke. He’s very clearly a reaper in the trailer and the title reads: “can meteor’s next job not be melee?”

I do recall seeing someone predicting they might replace Reaper Meteor with Zero in a later fanfest and have Meteor rep one of the new jobs.
Probably a stretch but would be kinda funny if they do something like that.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Okay, someone needs to explain to me where this idea comes from that there’s any question or doubt about what job he’s repping in the Evercold trailer because I feel like I’m having a stroke. He’s very clearly a reaper in the trailer and the title reads: “can meteor’s next job not be melee?”

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and what class would he be to make the most sense then in that context? WHM? Please..

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

And 10.0 would be double DPS again. So it could be Stormblood/Dawntrail in being 1 caster and 1 melee, alternatively they could shake that up and give double melee in the form of 1 maiming and 1 scouting.

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The greed on this dude is biblical.

People still refuse to acknowledge that nobody besides gearing melees cares about the melee gear differences

It isn’t “scouting and maiming” it’s “two melee”

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

and what class would he be to make the most sense then in that context? WHM? Please..

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You don’t even know the context of 9.0.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

and what class would he be to make the most sense then in that context? WHM? Please..

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If you mean for 8.0 instead of RPR, SMN

If you mean for 9.0 or onwards, whatever the new Caster/Healer would be at the time, or SMN

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You don’t even know the context of 9.0.

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I'm pretty sure it won't be in Gridania, or any of the already heavily featured zones.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

If you mean for 8.0 instead of RPR, SMN

If you mean for 9.0 or onwards, whatever the new Caster/Healer would be at the time, or SMN

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SMN? How so? Why would any of the primals be there? It might have made sense.. in EW.. maybe??? at least in the middle part, but for 8.0?

To be it would be weird to have him any of those. There are 2 healers, 3 mages, 1 tank, and 1 melee. Maybe in 10.0 everyone is a mage except Thancred cause he is now fully "Garlean".

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

SMN? How so? Why would any of the primals be there? It might have made sense.. in EW.. maybe??? at least in the middle part, but for 8.0?

To be it would be weird to have him any of those. There are 2 healers, 3 mages, 1 tank, and 1 melee. Maybe in 10.0 everyone is a mage except Thancred cause he is now fully "Garlean".

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For 8.0, Eden's story showed that we can restore balance to an aetherially-imbalanced world, by summoning a Primal, destroying it, and letting its aether be re-circulated back into the world. So, SMN summons a big Fire entity (Ifrit, Phoenix, or some bastardized versions of them ala Eden Story itself), we destroy it in the 4th, the Fire Aether starts to mend the world a bit. If Fire+Ice is still imbalanced, SMN can also summon a Wind entity of some kind, defeat that, and then the Fire/Wind from the Summons, plus the ambient Ice of the world, all neutralize each other entirely, and the Shard returns to equilibrium

For 9.0, we literally have zero idea what it's going to be about, so SMN could fit, or it could not. However, due to Eden again, we have been shown that SMN would be incredibly easy to fit into any story that involves an aetherially imbalanced world, which appears to be the 'overarching problem' for the new story arc we have to deal with now (as compared to 'Ascians' being the previous story arc's 'overarching problem' to solve). IE, if we go a Shard they decide is tilted towards Water (because they want to do FFX references everywhere), then SMN A: can fix that by summoning something of the element that is strongest against Water (unfortunately, that's Lightning, so Ixion or Ramuh fight, again), and perhaps an Earth entity to have the full triangle and keep the Lightning under control (so, another Titan fight probably), and B: would be in itself, a reference to FFX because Yuna


Still not seeing how Reaper fits Evercold, besides maybe 'it's Garle-cold in Garlemald and that's where Reaper is from', but we learned it in Uldah so I don't think that counts

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I'm pretty sure it won't be in Gridania, or any of the already heavily featured zones.



SMN? How so? Why would any of the primals be there? It might have made sense.. in EW.. maybe??? at least in the middle part, but for 8.0?

To be it would be weird to have him any of those. There are 2 healers, 3 mages, 1 tank, and 1 melee. Maybe in 10.0 everyone is a mage except Thancred cause he is now fully "Garlean".

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The example I gave a few times was when we inevitably go to help the shard that fell during the sixth umbral calamity. Like how Meteor was both a Monk and a Samurai for Stormblood, I think they should be both a Black Mage and a White Mage since those are the two fields of magic that caused that calamity in the first place. It would be very fitting for the warrior of light to fix the mess created by those schools of magic while wielding them.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Still not seeing how Reaper fits Evercold, besides maybe 'it's Garle-cold in Garlemald and that's where Reaper is from', but we learned it in Uldah so I don't think that counts

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imo the whole shard freezing over seems pretty adjacent to a light calamity (which was also kind of what Eden Shiva was) so I don't think it's that outlandish to try countering that with darkness.

Think he's also supposed to mirror Zenos as Halmarut implied in the MSQ, but moreover it looks like to me they're trying to do a Heavensward X Shadowbringers theming so them choosing the job that's kind of between Dragoon and Dark Knight is also fitting.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

imo the whole shard freezing over seems pretty adjacent to a light calamity (which was also kind of what Eden Shiva was) so I don't think it's that outlandish to try countering that with darkness.

Think he's also supposed to mirror Zenos as Halmarut implied in the MSQ, but moreover it looks like to me they're trying to do a Heavensward X Shadowbringers theming so them choosing the job that's kind of between Dragoon and Dark Knight is also fitting.

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While Ice is closest on the wheel to Light, that doesn't make them the same thing, nor does it mean that the solution to them would be the same

By the same logic, we'd use Light to counteract the Ninth's massive Lightning tilt. That sounds like it makes no sense

We also don't know if we're actually going to be fixing the Ice at all, maybe it's just beyond saving and we're going to do something that just prevents the Shard from getting any closer to re-merging with the Source (using the Key in some way), in which case, the fact that RPR uses Darkness at all is moot. If we DO fix the Ice problem there, then there has to be an ingame explanation for how and why, and if RPR's Darkness is the reason we're able to resolve the Ice, what is the explanation that allows all the other Jobs to also 'save the world', despite not using Darkness. IE, how does a WHM save the world when they're using Light vs a Monk who punches things vs a MCH and their tech/gun vs a PCT and their paint? The answer has to be 'one size fits all' and as such, has to be unrelated to the Job in the trailer.

Remember that, despite the SHB trailers, we didn't need a Darkness-using Job to remove the Light from the skies in the First (if anything, we actually used Light to do that). We just got called 'Warrior of Darkness' in the story cos A: the end result was that the night returned and B: there was a prophecy and we/our actions happened to fit, and in the trailer because it sounded cool

I do not know what you mean by 'mirror Zenos', please explain further

I don’t understand why people find it hard to imagine WoL doing mid-battle job switching like they did in ShB trailer. Personally I like to imagine the poster guy make use of this ability to showcase that he can use a combination of caster/healer abilities in tandem with their melee jobs action. Both side (i.e. ppl who want role representation) ‘wins’.

Why does certain person always thinks so black & white?

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

For 8.0, Eden's story showed that we can restore balance to an aetherially-imbalanced world, by summoning a Primal, destroying it, and letting its aether be re-circulated back into the world. So, SMN summons a big Fire entity (Ifrit, Phoenix, or some bastardized versions of them ala Eden Story itself), we destroy it in the 4th, the Fire Aether starts to mend the world a bit. If Fire+Ice is still imbalanced, SMN can also summon a Wind entity of some kind, defeat that, and then the Fire/Wind from the Summons, plus the ambient Ice of the world, all neutralize each other entirely, and the Shard returns to equilibrium

For 9.0, we literally have zero idea what it's going to be about, so SMN could fit, or it could not. However, due to Eden again, we have been shown that SMN would be incredibly easy to fit into any story that involves an aetherially imbalanced world, which appears to be the 'overarching problem' for the new story arc we have to deal with now (as compared to 'Ascians' being the previous story arc's 'overarching problem' to solve). IE, if we go a Shard they decide is tilted towards Water (because they want to do FFX references everywhere), then SMN A: can fix that by summoning something of the element that is strongest against Water (unfortunately, that's Lightning, so Ixion or Ramuh fight, again), and perhaps an Earth entity to have the full triangle and keep the Lightning under control (so, another Titan fight probably), and B: would be in itself, a reference to FFX because Yuna


Still not seeing how Reaper fits Evercold, besides maybe 'it's Garle-cold in Garlemald and that's where Reaper is from', but we learned it in Uldah so I don't think that counts

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Why would he summon Ifrit in the first place? It's not just any aether that it needs to be infused there, but Light specifically, which is why they extract and divert it from the First.

Light and Darkness counter/balance eachother.

Also, what do you mean you don't see how Reaper fits in there when it was very clearly explained how things work in the 13-th? It's very obvious that the 13th will play a major part in the next story since WoL already found a way to travel there by using the key. Now they have to find ways to further expand and allow the rest to travel.

Now, the question is, who will form a contract with WoL? Will it be Golbez or Malphas, or somebody new altogether? But that discussion is for another topic.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Why would he summon Ifrit in the first place? It's not just any aether that it needs to be infused there, but Light specifically, which is why they extract and divert it from the First.

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Are we talking about the same thing? The 13th needs Light to counteract its Darkness, yes. But we're on about why Reaper would fit EC, which is in the 4th, which is consumed by Ice. Fire is the element dominant to Ice in the wheel (and Wind is dominant to Fire, if that is required to fully stabilize the three in a rock-paper-scissors equilibrium), so in theory, using Eden's lore, summoning Ifrit (or some such Fire entity) in the 4th, killing it there and letting the aether disperse into the environment, would counteract the Ice. And if the Fire then becomes too dominant, we do the same with a Wind entity like Garuda. The Fire beats the Ice of the world, the Wind beats the Fire, the Ice of the world beats the Wind, they all equalize into a more stable level of each, world fixed. Makes more sense to me than any Reaper-related explanation put forward thus far

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Light and Darkness counter/balance eachother.

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I'm aware of this. But again, this is about EC/the 4th, which is Ice. Ice is 'the element closest to Stasis on the Elemental Wheel', but it's not 'the same thing'. If Darkness affects anything besides Light (and vice versa), doesn't that imply that we can use Light from the First to counteract the Lightning on the Ninth? I'd have assumed we'd have seen that mentioned by now if it were a viable solution. Besides that, it'd also mean that we're able to use Light on any of the 'Elements closer to Darkness on the Wheel', so Fire and Wind would be susceptible to Light (though to a lesser extent than Lightning), and the same with Darkness being used against Water and Earth?

I think the simple explanation makes far more sense. Light and Darkness oppose one another. They affect each other, and not anything else. Fire beats Ice, Ice beats Wind, Wind beats Fire. Lightning beats Water, Water beats Earth, Earth beats Lightning. Light and Darkness aren't 'Elements' in the same way that the other 6 are, they're more like Polarities. It was, at one point, canon that you could have Umbral Fire, or Astral Ice, or Umbral Lightning, with the positions on the Wheel indicating what the element was most likely to be aligned to, not that it 'has to be this polarity every time'. So, unless that was entirely retconned (instead of just forgotten about for simplification), introducing pure Astral/'Activity' to Ice, wouldn't thaw it, or make it not-Ice. It'd just make it into 'Active Ice', which I'd assume would result in instantaneous expansion of a Flash-Freeze. As an example in the lore already, the 'Calamity of Darkness' that Bahamut brought coincided with the timing of the flash-freeze of Coerthas, and my reading of that would be 'The Darkness-aspected rain of destruction that Bahamut brought, reacted with the already-colder climate of the area, catalyzing the Ice Aether of the area with 'Darkness'/'Activity', and so the area got flash-frozen as the Ice Aether became 'active' and rapidly expanded in area and potency'.

I might be wrong, of course, I don't own any Encyclopedia Eorzea books which might have the explanations. But I think what I'm saying makes for a more solid explanation than anything relating to Reaper, when it comes to 'which Job would best fit 8.0's story'. Plus, if 'Darkness' is really the reason Reaper's a good fit for EC... Black Mage has Darkness-aspected spells in its kit too. Darkness AND Fire in one Job's kit, sounds like it'd be way more suited for counteracting a world of Ice, because it's got multiple options it can try. Of course, by that logic SMN would be the optimal choice, because it has (in gameplay terms) Fire, Wind, Earth, Darkness (Demi-Bahamut), Fire again (Phoenix), and Light (Solar Bahamut). In lore terms, we were present at the 'death' of Leviathan, Ramuh, and arguably Shiva, so we also have the capacity (in lore) to summon an Egi of those three as well, we just don't in gameplay because... reasons (SE let me EgiGlam them over the ITG trio please and thank you)

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Also, what do you mean you don't see how Reaper fits in there when it was very clearly explained how things work in the 13-th? It's very obvious that the 13th will play a major part in the next story since WoL already found a way to travel there by using the key. Now they have to find ways to further expand and allow the rest to travel.

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I saw how things work in the 13th, but again, we're talking about the 4th. I can see them writing that 'The barriers between the 13th and other Shards (including the Source) are weaker than any other, which is how/why voidgates appear. As such, the 13th functions as a 'nexus' for us to travel through to get to other Shards without as many contrivances/hoops like the power of the Crystal Tower'

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Now, the question is, who will form a contract with WoL? Will it be Golbez or Malphas, or somebody new altogether? But that discussion is for another topic.

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Probably Zero, since she was Zenos' Avatar for a while, and they're apparently setting up a 'you mirror Zenos' angle according to that other post

Just to back up a point here everything forsaken has said matches what encyclopaedia eorzea says about the elemental wheel the only thing that’s hazy (not wrong, just doesn’t have justification one way or another) is is the darkness aspectation of the 7th umbral calamity was part of why cortheas flash froze or if the “darkness” started and ended at the turbulence of Bahamut and the secondary effects of the falling shards of dalamud weren’t necessarily aspected