Forked Tower premade patch coming before 7.3

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Originally Posted by Bryson

savage is 8 people. ft is 48. it's hard to explain if you haven't done FT, but too much things can go wrong inside (not even necessarily the bosses themselves) that imo, all but guarantee, pf will not clear outside of discord (assuming the group isn't full of people who've cleared already).

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To be clear, you've claimed in other posts that you regularly clear FT with casuals using Discord, but experienced raiders will find it virtually impossible to clear FT without Discord?

I'm not disputing your claim, just trying to understand this unique content better.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

To be clear, you've claimed in other posts that you regularly clear FT with casuals using Discord, but experienced raiders will find it virtually impossible to clear FT without Discord?

I'm not disputing your claim, just trying to understand this unique content better.

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Yeah that's my general question and what I will be curious to see. If the people in PF are those who are already used to the idea of "Go to the right spot or you wipe the raid" then can we be successful with the aids that we already have available for PF in other endgame content.

Chaotic seems to imply it may be possible, at least for the first few weeks until people get what they want from it. The big issue with Chaotic was the PF just taking far too long to fill and then parties often died after one or two wipes. I seen the random run on Aether now but that content is either pretty much dead or is being organized in Discords somewhere if it's still being run regularly.

Also like LegendWait pointed out, you may not be able to replace and retry easily (will remain to be seen with how the queue into the instance is set up). Can we get kicked out, back entirely out of that instance, then queue again for another and have a shorter time waiting for another FT try?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Yeah that's my general question and what I will be curious to see. If the people in PF are those who are already used to the idea of "Go to the right spot or you wipe the raid" then can we be successful with the aids that we already have available for PF in other endgame content.

Chaotic seems to imply it may be possible, at least for the first few weeks until people get what they want from it. The big issue with Chaotic was the PF just taking far too long to fill and then parties often died after one or two wipes. I seen the random run on Aether now but that content is either pretty much dead or is being organized in Discords somewhere if it's still being run regularly.

Also like LegendWait pointed out, you may not be able to replace and retry easily (will remain to be seen with how the queue into the instance is set up). Can we get kicked out, back entirely out of that instance, then queue again for another and have a shorter time waiting for another FT try?

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Comparing all of FT to Chaotic inadvertently just proves you aren't familar with FT at all. FT isn't a circle platform with a boss infront of you.. Zone in pull boss. When I say pf won't clear outside of discord on NA, it's because of all the things that can go wrong during the boss fight and also inbetween them. Hall between 1-2, snowball and towers on 2, bridges between 2-3, baiting wrong, adds, towers on 3, all the various rooms and adds before 4, rune, holy lance on 4.. like you can't just compare FT to chaotic.. it's reductive and just completely out of touch with the reality of what goes on inside FT.

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Originally Posted by Bryson

Comparing all of FT to Chaotic inadvertently just proves you aren't familar with FT at all. FT isn't a circle platform with a boss infront of you.. Zone in pull boss. When I say pf won't clear outside of discord on NA, it's because of all the things that can go wrong during the boss fight and also inbetween them. Hall between 1-2, snowball and towers on 2, bridges between 2-3, baiting wrong, adds, towers on 3, all the various rooms and adds before 4, rune, holy lance on 4.. like you can't just compare FT to chaotic.. it's reductive and just completely out of touch with the reality of what goes on inside FT.

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It wasn't already implied that I haven't done it yet when I said I didn't want to get carried by a Discord?

My comments have been curiosity on how we might accomplish it in public PFs. I'm certainly going to look for them and see what resources might develop that make it possible. It's not meant to be reductive but more to theorize on how we might accomplish it as the non-Discord community. And if it doesn't work, to find the pain points we can give feedback on to SE about why. But we have to try it first.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It wasn't already implied that I haven't done it yet when I said I didn't want to get carried by a Discord?

My comments have been curiosity on how we might accomplish it in public PFs. I'm certainly going to look for them and see what resources might develop that make it possible. It's not meant to be reductive but more to theorize on how we might accomplish it as the non-Discord community. And if it doesn't work, to find the pain points we can give feedback on to SE about why. But we have to try it first.

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and I'm saying given it's design, you won't clear it outside of discord... unless like majority of the 48 is comprised of people who've already cleared.

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Originally Posted by Bryson

and I'm saying given it's design, you won't clear it outside of discord... unless like majority of the 48 is comprised of people who've already cleared.

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The thing that gets me is that while large-scale difficult content might be a bit annoying to organize through a discord server it's not really the end of the world. But bringing this point feels like the forums are gonna beat me up with a DSM-V book about social anxiety so I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

The thing that gets me is that while large-scale difficult content might be a bit annoying to organize through a discord server it's not really the end of the world. But bringing this point feels like the forums are gonna beat me up with a DSM-V book about social anxiety so I don't know.

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imagine unironically being so apprehensive to joining discord and muting yourself in discord, that you'd rather just not clear instead lol..

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Originally Posted by Volgia

The thing that gets me is that while large-scale difficult content might be a bit annoying to organize through a discord server it's not really the end of the world. But bringing this point feels like the forums are gonna beat me up with a DSM-V book about social anxiety so I don't know.

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I understand Discord is used commonly over a wide range of games, but is it not unusual for a game to release content that, according to Bryson, basically requires Discord to clear?

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Originally Posted by Volgia

The thing that gets me is that while large-scale difficult content might be a bit annoying to organize through a discord server it's not really the end of the world. But bringing this point feels like the forums are gonna beat me up with a DSM-V book about social anxiety so I don't know.

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Discord? DISCORD?! How dare you make me open up the program I already have on my PC.

Genuinely curious, and far be it for me to ask, but why is someone who hasn't even cleared the tier yet being so condescending?

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Originally Posted by Bryson

and I'm saying given it's design, you won't clear it outside of discord... unless like majority of the 48 is comprised of people who've already cleared.

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Just curious: Wouldn't you also need people who cleared the content to be able give reliable callouts in discord? I mean even the people in discord probably failed mechanics before they understood them. So can't it be the same without discord, that people fail (many times) in order to understand what to do in the end?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It wasn't already implied that I haven't done it yet when I said I didn't want to get carried by a Discord?

My comments have been curiosity on how we might accomplish it in public PFs. I'm certainly going to look for them and see what resources might develop that make it possible. It's not meant to be reductive but more to theorize on how we might accomplish it as the non-Discord community. And if it doesn't work, to find the pain points we can give feedback on to SE about why. But we have to try it first.

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My honest opinion on the best way to do this is have the wtfdig website post the strats and have specific roles do specific phantom jobs. As long as the 6 parties can queue together and everything else is decided (strats/jobs) beforehand then it all comes down to people's patience with each other while everyone screws it up until they don't.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Your point? What's the goalpost you want to artificially set up where someone can say they're a Savage raider? You people really are sad.

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JFC the mentality of some of these posters. Actual cringe to make a claim that, cause you didnt clear in an arbitrary amount of time, your opinion is somehow less valid. Fucking spare me.

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Originally Posted by Aniise

Wow, another person giving raiders a bad name. You realize you're doing the people you are claiming to be superior to all other players a big disservice by your behavior?
And at the same time, you criticize others social skills. Congrats, I guess you really mastered the art of projection.

Some people on this forum, I swear...

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Hit the nail on the head, thank you for calling out this behavior.

I'm gonna cut this off at the pass and ignore the 12 pages of people yelling at each other in circles about the obvious problems with this content and it's relation to discord.

Pretty much everyone is in agreement it's access is poorly designed from most angles considering the content type and difficulty. Cool? Cool.

1: The reason they are doing this right now, is because it's a low hanging fruit solution to a major issue that is heavily impacting the content being played. Forked tower was designed to be a part of the OC zone and likely can not be removed into it's own que without a major rework, particularly on the back end. This was the easiest and quickest solution they could put out so that players can actually DO the content. We can argue if discord should be required or not till our hands bleed but that does not change the reality of how the content was created. They simply made a quick change that made the content more easy to access for premade groups.

2: They likely will NEVER create a normal mode for this, not because they have some sort of specific contempt for "casual" players but because at this point it simply isn't really a valid solution to this issue. No matter how much money you can throw at it, development takes time, making a normal mode of forked tower would practically be the equivalent of making a 24 man raid. Just because it's easier to play, does not mean it's easier to make, it would still require just as much play testing, and bug testing as the current Forked tower did. Everyone saying "Just remove _____ _____ and _______,and put it out" have no idea how the development process works, particularly at a company this large. Even if they threw infinite money at it, it would still take far longer then they have. By the time it would be released this content would be long out of it's "new" period, hell it already is. Likely it wouldn't be ready until later portion of OC are already complete, and by that point, its far to late. Yoshi P was saying there will not be a normal mode created, because by the time it would finish it would 100% be dead on arrival with it released as already out dated content in the progression of OC by the time its done.


For the record, I agree there 100% should have been a normal mode, and this content was designed in a way that was "out of touch" to put in generously. Considering how rare this kind of quick change is and how unanimous the distaste for the entry methods of this content is, I think they know they messed up. They looked at the situation, looked at the easiest, quickest, and most importantly viable way the could make the content *Playable* and did it.

They chose the method that made the content more accessible to the people who wanted to approach it as a group, because any solution to make the content more accessible to the general public would take much longer to implement, long enough that it would no longer really be worth it.

So many people on this forum have this bizzare "us vs them" mentality, where they get mad when people who aren't them get what they want and they don't. Nothing about this change takes away from players who want a easier Forked tower, and I 100% agree with you that it should have been normalish difficulty in the first place. But this change specifically isn't about the developers "catering to hardcore" or anything of the sort, it's simply about making the already created content actually accessible.

For whatever it's worth there is no chance they aren't scrambling to add a normal mode to the next big raid at this moment to avoid this situation when the next zone comes out.

Whoa, so they can smack the emergency maint button to make big changes like this.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by RiotSiren

2: They likely will NEVER create a normal mode for this, not because they have some sort of specific contempt for "casual" players but because at this point it simply isn't really a valid solution to this issue. No matter how much money you can throw at it, development takes time, making a normal mode of forked tower would practically be the equivalent of making a savage version of a fight.

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Nearly that much work, huh?

Yeah I imagine doing that 12 times for 7.X, they're all out of resources.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Is the War on Discord over?

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I wish it would be. I'm in some really great Discords who just wanna do the content and have been open and welcoming to literally anyone. 0 cliques, no exclusions. Just come in and do the content. But then I come here and its the freaking boogeyman with the same people denouncing anyone who makes a run that uses it like we're all scum for wanting to team up and do some fun content. It's fun content man even though its implementation is horrendous. I can't see myself forgiving the team for creating this unnecessary rift between people who are, in the end, just looking to have some god damn fun be it in game with no discord or with it.

Is this like an EU to NA thing? Or am I just extremely lucky that all the EU discords I'm in have been super chill? lol We had some "snipers" turn up to our run and we invited them into the group and they joined the Discord and then turned up the next weekend as a regular member trying to prog. We raise people in our runs who were in there randomly but we just hope they know what's up if they say no. I know not all discord communities are made equal but sometimes its disheartening to see good people get lumped in just for the platform they use to coordinate themselves through poorly thought out content.

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

Alright Square Enix I'll tell you how to fix Occult Crescent and get people to do Forked Tower, since you clearly don't know how to learn lessons from past content of this type.

1) remove the raise limit

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Just this one change alone would make such a substantial difference. I recall that they apologised for the raise restriction and that it made players unhappy in previous content... only to bring it back again. lol We have all these jobs that can do unique things and then they make FT where you can potentially force your way through some totally gruelling fights through pure gumption and use of your kit and then you realise "Oh, no we can't. There's a death limit." Let alone the really small time limit inside the tower meaning having to explain the content to people, coordinate groups and all that leaves absolutely 0 time for miscommunications due to language barrier/prog differences/what have you.

The super traps are super funny 'cause it's like, oh cool we have a combo of Ranger/Thief that can find traps and clear the way for each other! And then there's a trap where if the Ranger isn't paying attention can just kill everyone anyway.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Nearly that much work, huh?

Yeah I imagine doing that 12 times for 7.X, they're all out of resources.

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I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm not defending them, I'm saying it wouldn't realistically be worth it or viable in a quick enough time frame. Developing a properly balanced, fun, and polished normal mode for players is a far bigger task then people seem to think it is. Forked tower was likely being worked on and balanced before DT even came out, for sure the assets existing would speed up the process, but you can't really rush things like play-testing, and the iteration it requires, unless you want extremely unpolished content, which I don't think you do. I agree this should have never been like this in the first place.

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Originally Posted by RiotSiren

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm not defending them, I'm saying it wouldn't realistically be worth it or viable in a quick enough time frame. Developing a properly balanced, fun, and polished normal mode for players is a far bigger task then people seem to think it is. Forked tower was likely being worked on and balanced before DT even came out, for sure the assets existing would speed up the process, but you can't really rush things like play-testing, and the iteration it requires, unless you want extremely unpolished content, which I don't think you do. I agree this should have never been like this in the first place.

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Sensible position. I think many of us are just fuming at the "lack of resources" explanation of why there was no normal mode, when as you note, the amount of work (if committed to early) would be less than 1/12th that of the relatively niche savage raids of 7.X.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Sensible position. I think many of us are just fuming at the "lack of resources" explanation of why there was no normal mode, when as you note, the amount of work (if committed to early) would be less than 1/12th that of the relatively niche savage raids of 7.X.

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Ah for sure, thats completely valid. Though I'll be honest I actually appreciate the transparency, like it or not CBU3 is subject to cooperate politics and gets the budget they get. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he specifically mentioned it to put pressure on those who designate the budget.

Though your statement about " 1/12th that of the relatively niche savage raids of 7.X. " is loaded as all hell though and honestly very incorrect. I'll be honest, I misspoke, as it several fights that all need to keep the phantom jobs in mind. It would be more equivalent to designing another extra 24 man raid in development time, of which we will have 4 (5 if they do another one in OC). Either way though, I still stand by my point, that expecting a fully developed 48 man normal raid (that needs to take into account phantom jobs. current and future) before the content becomes outdated is unrealistic

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Originally Posted by RiotSiren

Ah for sure, thats completely valid. Though I'll be honest I actually appreciate the transparency, like it or not CBU3 is subject to cooperate politics and gets the budget they get. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he specifically mentioned it to put pressure on those who designate the budget.

Though your statement about " 1/12th that of the relatively niche savage raids of 7.X. " is loaded as all hell though and honestly very incorrect. I'll be honest, I misspoke, as it several fights that all need to keep the phantom jobs in mind. It would be more equivalent to designing another extra 24 man raid in development time, of which we will have 4 (5 if they do another one in OC). Either way though, I still stand by my point, that expecting a fully developed 48 man normal raid (that needs to take into account phantom jobs. current and future) before the content becomes outdated is unrealistic

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Then perhaps we can settle on the common ground that the omission of a normal mode FT was a mistake, and that it isn't surprising that those who were looking forward to it are miffed.

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Originally Posted by RiotSiren

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm not defending them, I'm saying it wouldn't realistically be worth it or viable in a quick enough time frame. Developing a properly balanced, fun, and polished normal mode for players is a far bigger task then people seem to think it is. Forked tower was likely being worked on and balanced before DT even came out, for sure the assets existing would speed up the process, but you can't really rush things like play-testing, and the iteration it requires, unless you want extremely unpolished content, which I don't think you do. I agree this should have never been like this in the first place.

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It would be worth it for the part of the player base that feels like they’ve left out entirely… and I wouldn’t mind waiting until the next zone comes out. I’m not expecting it to be as easy a fix as what they’re doing tonight. But it should happen. There are only two zones for OC. Forked Tower Blood and Magic are a matching set here. Even if they make a Normal for the next zone, and honestly I’m not getting my hopes up at this point, it’s going to be lopsided if this one doesn’t get one.

As it is now, the scheduling alone will keep me from doing it for quite a while, let alone the prospect of having to do so multiple times to get a clear. And honestly having to prog it and not just having it be a still challenging but less punishing experience is going to suck most of the fun out it for me anyway. If the next zone gets Normal, great, but then what about those who didn’t manage to get the first one done? Maybe some will be fine doing things out of order or just skipping the first Tower altogether, but for most I’d wager it kills their motivation to go through the content altogether.

Occult Crescent premade patch coming before 7.3*

It's still a band-aid fix. Hopefully the Forked Tower premade comes in 7.3. And of course it doesn't compromise the patch, when SE revealed most of 7.3's content after the Forked Tower fiasco.

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Originally Posted by RiotSiren

Either way though, I still stand by my point, that expecting a fully developed 48 man normal raid (that needs to take into account phantom jobs. current and future) before the content becomes outdated is unrealistic

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On this point in particular: Define outdated. lol OC is the current field ops zone, but Eureka and Bozja still see engagement to this day. Eureka especially was packed before OC and Cosmic released, and Bozja continues to be popular just for its ability to level jobs.

But then look at the dungeon instances involved… Bozja’s have replay-ability. CLL, Dalriada, Del Reg Normal… They weren’t “easy” on release but became so over time as one got stronger in the zones and learned the best ways to utilize the lost actions, there were no rez restrictions or “single person makes mistake=game over” mechs, and were usually puggable in a single run unless things went catastrophically wrong. But even so, you could just try again later, and it was fun enough to do as many times as you needed to get coins, relic bits, etc., while offering DRS for those who wanted more of a challenge. BA on the other hand is the ancestor to the current FTB. How many times do most people run BA? Considering it also has the same entrance contrivances and inability to run without scheduling and organizing. I’d guess the overwhelming majority are “one and done” on that, other than those that enjoy either maximizing gear or hosting runs. This isn’t something you can just pop into the zone and get done. Which is why I still haven’t done BA, regardless of how much I loved Eureka in general.

So tldr, I’d argue that adding the Normal mode, more on par with the Bozja instances would actually extend the life of the content, and make it desirable to go back to long after it’s no longer new & shiny.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Again, if content is designed where it needs guides, callouts and you must be in discord to clear - it shouldn't exist. No content should be added or designed that is unable to be completed in-game with the system's in-game. Period.

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So extremes shouldnt exist either? Because you got Guides etc too, and i say it again you dont need to be in discord anymore just opener you random partyfinder group and good is

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Originally Posted by SeriousPan

I wish it would be. I'm in some really great Discords who just wanna do the content and have been open and welcoming to literally anyone. 0 cliques, no exclusions. Just come in and do the content. But then I come here and its the freaking boogeyman with the same people denouncing anyone who makes a run that uses it like we're all scum for wanting to team up and do some fun content. It's fun content man even though its implementation is horrendous. I can't see myself forgiving the team for creating this unnecessary rift between people who are, in the end, just looking to have some god damn fun be it in game with no discord or with it.

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I never had any problems with Discords on doing this kind of content. As like.. .you don't even need to talk, just need to listen to someone giving call outs. It's not amazing but it's not the end of the world. You can enjoy 99% of the game without Discord anyways.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I understand Discord is used commonly over a wide range of games, but is it not unusual for a game to release content that, according to Bryson, basically requires Discord to clear?

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It doesn't require it, it just happens to be the most efficient way to do it.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

It doesn't require it, it just happens to be the most efficient way to do it.

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I guess it's part of MMO culture to worship at the min-max alter.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I guess it's part of MMO culture to worship at the min-max alter.

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Well I'll give you a savage equivalent that kind of frustrates me but you learn to accept, in PF in the beginning of any tier, people are loose with the strats they make and some of them might be cool and others might be awkward, but when Hector puts up a video he consolidates PF into one single strat. His videos are just too efficient a way to learn a fight, so if you're doing it with Randos, he's your best bet to clear savage.

it isn't required to watch his videos to beat savage, a friend has a blind static he does every fight figuring them out, but if you're doing PF it almost feels like you're forced to watch his videos to clear.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Well I'll give you a savage equivalent that kind of frustrates me but you learn to accept, in PF in the beginning of any tier, people are loose with the strats they make and some of them might be cool and others might be awkward, but when Hector puts up a video he consolidates PF into one single strat. His videos are just too efficient a way to learn a fight, so if you're doing it with Randos, he's your best bet to clear savage.

it isn't required to watch his videos to beat savage, a friend has a blind static he does every fight figuring them out, but if you're doing PF it almost feels like you're forced to watch his videos to clear.

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Sure, if clearing is the only goal it makes perfect sense. Just not my cup of tea.

Sort of like Fashion Report. When I discovered the "answer" is posted on Reddit every week, I didn't bother unlocking it.

I'm probably just better suited to sandbox MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Normal DR had Twice-come Ruin, so it's something that pugs can overcome if there isn't a set of raise restrictions and copious body checks. The rest I agree with.

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Fuck twice-come ruin, it genuinely moves the game away further from an actual RPG, healing and everything else and it just becomes about dodging the mechanics appropriately instead. Everything is binary now.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I guess it's part of MMO culture to worship at the min-max alter.

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Following efficient guide isn't min-maxing. Crying over AST rng card because it doesn't give you aoe balance every draw is worshipping min-max, for example.

If someone doesn't like to follow guide strat, they might as well pick a fight with the entire community, especially JP community as they clear savage with PF randoms (which means universal strat is a must). Well, unless you play with your own group/static, then you can do whatever.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Following efficient guide isn't min-maxing. Crying over AST rng card because it doesn't give you aoe balance every draw is worshipping min-max, for example.

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I'd suggest you have it completely backwards.

We can probably find some pathological cases, but you can't min-max a random process. It's like claiming when flipping a coin that the strategy is to always flip heads.

If it's the "crying" (boy this forum loves that word) is your key point, one would hope anyone playing a job with a random element has the nous to recognize it is random, thereby averting tears.

I mean NGL, I'm kind of scratching my head here about what a min-maxxer in FFXIV looks like. Maybe a tight party composition for parsing and fishing out crits and speed runs, you can't very much theorycraft in this game, there is only one way to play it.

If I wanted to play a skillspeed Machinist I wouldn't meet any DPS checks, if I wanted to go play a full Piety White Mage I would be trolling my runs, the design even with stats is too stiff.

I appreciate (and am actually shocked they did this before the patch to begin with) the fixes they are trying to do. Interesting to me that they even brought up a point about "reserving the instance for a bit" to remove trolls.
But it's still feels like it's too late. The moment they uttered the reason why we didn't get a normal version, a lot of players probably decided then and there they weren't going to bother with this version, and everyone's on break or just unsubbed outright.
Would hope to see people trying prog PFs like I know Japanese servers will be able to do, but the NA playerbase is deeply allergic to using PF like that for some reason.

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Originally Posted by Bryson

and I'm saying given it's design, you won't clear it outside of discord... unless like majority of the 48 is comprised of people who've already cleared.

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You have said in other posts the content is pretty easy with the right callouts.
Most content in this game can be cleared with people leading and calling out things in the chat, or the group learning from mistakes and working it out in the chat together. If this content is "easy" as you have claimed it is in other posts, then it doesn't need Discord to begin with.
If it's not, then that means there's something wrong with the content.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I mean NGL, I'm kind of scratching my head here about what a min-maxxer in FFXIV looks like. Maybe a tight party composition for parsing and fishing out crits and speed runs, you can't very much theorycraft in this game, there is only one way to play it.

If I wanted to play a skillspeed Machinist I wouldn't meet any DPS checks, if I wanted to go play a full Piety White Mage I would be trolling my runs, the design even with stats is too stiff.

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In general terms, I'd suggest following a guide allows one to maximize the probability of clearing and/or the number of clears, while minimizing the time required to do so.

But you make an important point. Job homogenization basically washes out any composition maximization (with occasional exceptions like PCT on release). PvE is thus reduced to aligning as closely as possible with the predetermined dance.

It's so dull that skilled players are reduced to handicapping themselves, such as with no-healer runs.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I'd suggest you have it completely backwards.

We can probably find some pathological cases, but you can't min-max a random process. It's like claiming when flipping a coin that the strategy is to always flip heads.

If it's the "crying" (boy this forum loves that word) is your key point, one would hope anyone playing a job with a random element has the nous to recognize it is random, thereby averting tears.

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No yeah, that's my point. AST used to be rng, but some loud people complained because they can't get AOE Balance every time, which makes it not "max" (sorry, idk how else to explain it). Therefore the devs turned the card into non rng in shb where every pull always guarantee you a party damage buff (the only variation is whether you get ranged buff or melee buff).

Anyway, probably not the best example for min-max, but I'm still salty about AST, so whatever.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I mean NGL, I'm kind of scratching my head here about what a min-maxxer in FFXIV looks like. Maybe a tight party composition for parsing and fishing out crits and speed runs, you can't very much theorycraft in this game, there is only one way to play it.

If I wanted to play a skillspeed Machinist I wouldn't meet any DPS checks, if I wanted to go play a full Piety White Mage I would be trolling my runs, the design even with stats is too stiff.

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Completly wrong, did you ever just out of curiousity in the Balance Discord the non standard "Reaper" Guide? You will see things you never thought about, people think always your Rotation is Static and you cant do much, but you can do more then you can imagine if you look deeper

and critfarming is actually btw a minmax way too

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I understand Discord is used commonly over a wide range of games, but is it not unusual for a game to release content that, according to Bryson, basically requires Discord to clear?

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Nothing to do with external voice chat but the game could implement a lot of things that would help with large scale content. Better alliance / party management, more easy chat features, markers that are cross-alliance, etc. since none of that exists now and FT is in OC instance people shout a lot so people outside tend to talk a lot there too it's just a big mess... However with how ... lackluster the battle planner has been and how they presented "ideas in consideration" I have no hope for tools to improve large scale content to ever be implemented.

At least we have this one step to help with the queue insanity but still have the other issues related to it lol.

My group that quit attempting because of how hard it was to get in together is waiting to see how this goes in reality before starting up again.