What do you think of jobs having different stances than classes?

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Because they were in development for 5+ years.

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Even if they were, so was FFXIV.

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And for the record, FFXIV has significantly more intricate animations than every other MMO on the market. Most other MMO uses the same animation repeatedly and add flashing lights to cover the weapon so users can't see it.

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That you think this only tells me you haven't been playing what else the market has to offer.

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Also, a massive number of XI's skills were repeats of other skills. There were actually very few Different animations. They did the same trick as most current MMOs. They used the same animation and added a different light.

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FFXIV does this too.

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Originally Posted by Yucie

That doesn't change the fact that it CAN be done.

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In 5 years for 0 gain at the cost of Content.

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Originally Posted by Radnar

FFXIV does this too.

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The point of this Dev comment was to say they were undoing that..

Like some have already said, they should at the very least make each race have more distinguished battle stances. I loved how mithra sort of hurled over while fighting in FFXI. It really fit the whole cat-theme. Whereas in this game they're pretty much just female hyurs with cat ears and a tail.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Because it takes weeks to create just one of those animations(not including implementation and testing), they cost a fortune, and To actually think up 10 variations of a single skill 180 times is next to impossible.

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You should befriend an 3D animator... It doesn't take that long to make an emote. Even if you include clipping checks, having to restart multiple times, and adding it into the game.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

I think this is a sensible choice as it's kind of a waste of resources to figure out some new way for each race to do haymaker etc., and every other ability under the sun. Like, that's just a pointless waste of time, especially since races already run in a unique way, and animate in other unique ways. They're already unique enough as it is. Classes however, could benefit more from such differentiation.

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I actually agree with this. It doesn't matter what race you are, if you are trained in a particular martial art you will fight in the established form of that martial art, otherwise you are quite literally doing it wrong, or you're doing something else entirely. When it comes to animations: Class > Character Build ( i.e. heavy or slender ) > Nation > Personality / Personal style > Race. Not to mention that each city state is significantly more diversified than they were in XI. Cultural barriers distinguish a person's motion and behavior far more than their race would in the world of Hydaelyn.

Racial animations belong in the realm of emotes, not battle actions.

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Originally Posted by Dano

they first will need to address the animations when activating skills, at this point they all use the same generic "power up" pose.

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This as well. The special effects being different from Raging Strike and Power Surge are cool, but it'd be better if we had different animations for them entirely. I'd much rather have this than making the races be different.

In XI, instead of "Squat your way to glory" it was "Half Bear Hug your way to glory"

Does anyone really care about emotes, or even use them at all anymore? Why is the animation team still hard at work on finding new ways for us to wave or laugh when they could be making combat more visually appealing? Oh well, I guess we will see in a week :)

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

I actually agree with this. It doesn't matter what race you are, if you are trained in a particular martial art you will fight in the established form of that martial art, otherwise you are quite literally doing it wrong, or you're doing something else entirely. When it comes to animations: Class > Character Build ( i.e. heavy or slender ) > Nation > Personality / Personal style > Race. Not to mention that each city state is significantly more diversified than they were in XI. Cultural barriers distinguish a person's motion and behavior far more than their race would in the world of Hydaelyn.

Racial animations belong in the realm of emotes, not battle actions.



This as well. The special effects being different from Raging Strike and Power Surge are cool, but it'd be better if we had different animations for them entirely. I'd much rather have this than making the races be different.

In XI, instead of "Squat your way to glory" it was "Half Bear Hug your way to glory"

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Battle actions are seen far more often than emotes. I'd rather my battle actions be small in number, but look great and never get old, as opposed to seeing the same emotes over, and over, and over, especially when the game has too many already that go unused. THAT is a waste of memory and resources.

Also, it's a game; there's no 'martial arts' rule to apply to it, which means that each person has their own way to fight.

When the animation team says they are concentrating on emotes, it only tells me they are choosing the easier way. It goes to show they are choosing the lazy way to do things and this is worrisome.

The community wants each race to stand alone animation wise, yet the animation team says "Sorry we are not going to do that, we rather do this emote thing, which is easier in our workload..."

I just want the current character animations to not all look the same... Phalanx/Fast Blade/Flat Blade, Doomspike/Full Thrust, Leg Sweep/Heavy Thrust, True Thrust/Vorpal Thrust/Impulse Drive, Haymaker/Pounce/Demolish, Concussive Blow/Sucker Punch....the list goes on...

If we can't get atleast some race specific things besides emotes atleast vary battle skills alot more.

Also auto attacks if not different between races should atleast be more varied and fluid.

On a relativly slower combat paced game you'd expect alot of interesting animations. Even a game like Tera has good variation on the skill animations, and that has a much faster combat pace then FF14.

I like FF14, i like alot about it, but the combat animations are not engrossing and anything but the Job skills are borderline boring. Though alot of the Job skills rely more on effects that obscure most of the animation anyway.

On the Emote note. I like having a fair amount of emotes, the issue with emotes to me is often the text that goes with it, which is often so specific that it makes semi-situational emotes completey situational.

/thumbsup which can be used for so much more then agreement. Giving a Thumbsup can be used for "Good job" "Thats cool" "Well done" etc.

Theres quite a few emotes that can almost remove themselves from use because of the text that comes with it. So if the Devs insist on spending time on emote building instead of combat which we use much more, atleast make the emote text less specific!

/thumbsup text should just read: "You give Partypants a thumbs up!" At let our conversation, role play or geography decide what we mean.

(could also let us combine an animated emote with custom text to replace it like the non-animation emote command does.)

But really, at some point (even if its not release time) put some work into the combat animations on a fair scale. Thats part of the fun of being X race instead of Y race.

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Originally Posted by Yucie

Battle actions are seen far more often than emotes. I'd rather my battle actions be small in number, but look great and never get old, as opposed to seeing the same emotes over, and over, and over, especially when the game has too many already that go unused. THAT is a waste of memory and resources.

Also, it's a game; there's no 'martial arts' rule to apply to it, which means that each person has their own way to fight.

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So we agree. Increase the number of battle animations and make them smooth and interesting. Still don't need racial differences. Their different skeletal structures will already give them slightly different animations i.e. Lalafells run "quicker" while Roegadyns trample along.

For example: Elezens shouldn't be swiping their blade with any more finesse than the other races unless they are a fencer. Then any fencer of any race would be swiping their blade with finesse. It's not a matter of resources it's a matter of continuity in the game world. There will always be more stuff later, resources aren't the issue. The developers don't need to contradict themselves when they've been trying to make a more diverse Eorzean populace as opposed to the strict segregation laid out in XI.

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

So we agree. Increase the number of battle animations and make them smooth and interesting. Still don't need racial differences. Their different skeletal structures will already give them slightly different animations i.e. Lalafells run "quicker" while Roegadyns trample along.

For example: Elezens shouldn't be swiping their blade with any more finesse than the other races unless they are a fencer. Then any fencer of any race would be swiping their blade with finesse. It's not a matter of resources it's a matter of continuity in the game world. There will always be more stuff later, resources aren't the issue. The developers don't need to contradict themselves when they've been trying to make a more diverse Eorzean populace as opposed to the strict segregation laid out in XI.

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And how often, in any MMO, are such animations either changed or added onto?

I was actually thinking about this the other day.

I'd like to see this, eventually. Creates a bit of variety.

The simple answer to this is.

/display battle-animation off
/display casting-animation off

And then.

Macro or add to the action bar a custom macro like;

/emote laugh <---- or any emote without text.
/ma "Flare" <t>
/large red flame explosion.

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Originally Posted by Yucie

And how often, in any MMO, are such animations either changed or added onto?

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Whenever there are new moves to put into the game...

How often do MMOs get a full on reboot?
How often do MMOs already change their animations? (see BLM screenshot on the main site)
How often have they already been verified by forum reps?

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Originally Posted by Yucie

And how often, in any MMO, are such animations either changed or added onto?

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They've added quite a bit of animations to FFXI in past years (Job Emotes for example) but XI is a special case because they actually care for their MMO -- A lot of MMOs have boring animations that you'll see from start to finish which is true.

The one thing I do hope though...

SquareEnix: Rapier/Epee type swords you do not swing like a normal blade -- You thrust with it, so if you introduce these weapons or class (Fencer?) make sure to get it right this time >.>

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Originally Posted by Viritess

On the Emote note. I like having a fair amount of emotes, the issue with emotes to me is often the text that goes with it, which is often so specific that it makes semi-situational emotes completey situational.

/thumbsup which can be used for so much more then agreement. Giving a Thumbsup can be used for "Good job" "Thats cool" "Well done" etc.

Theres quite a few emotes that can almost remove themselves from use because of the text that comes with it. So if the Devs insist on spending time on emote building instead of combat which we use much more, atleast make the emote text less specific!

/thumbsup text should just read: "You give Partypants a thumbs up!" At let our conversation, role play or geography decide what we mean.

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This is an excellent point that bears repeating. The text which accompanies many emotes is very restrictive, and limits many emote's usage. We already have plenty of emotes - more than I could ever imagine myself using in any practical sense. I would much rather see the animation department start diversifying the race's stock battle animations and make the current emote text less strict, than devote their time to even more emotes.

Since I rarely fight wit Miqotes (surprisingly) do their tails raise up when they go into battle? I hardly pay attention to them lol.

As someone said though, XI may be dated in terms of graphics now (being a 2001 era game) but the animations are still far more diverse and beautifully done with attention to detail than a lot of newer MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Since I rarely fight wit Miqotes (surprisingly) do their tails raise up when they go into battle? I hardly pay attention to them lol.

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I can verify it does not for Keepers of the Moon Miqo'te.

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Originally Posted by Radnar

I can verify it does not for Keepers of the Moon Miqo'te.

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http://www.spirited-ireland.net/imag...angry-cat2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

You should befriend an 3D animator... It doesn't take that long to make an emote. Even if you include clipping checks, having to restart multiple times, and adding it into the game.

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i am a 3D animator and i can say that it doesnt take that long to implement an emote which is probably why there going with emotes instead of battle animations. Because what some people dont understand is that making battle animations does take along time and its not as easy as people think.
people keep saying "well ffxi did it" or other mmos have better animations.

When you create a Battle animation thats not just affecting the animation teams work and putting it in the game. your first having it be designed and planned out before hand, then motion capture team does it, animation team cleans up and refines the animation, then it affect the effects team to make either a new effect (which again takes along time) and the battle team which sets up when damage is done and stuff like that.

all just to get one animation in game. Do that for as many animations as your all talking about and it should be clear why emotes is the way to go for right now. Its not a hard process to do but it takes along time.

which is why some people dont know what there talking about when they say, other mmos have done it, or its not that hard to do.

other mmos had alot more time, you guys want this by ARR? lol
just because its not planned for right now doesnt mean they will never do it, give it time.
this guy knows whats up: Kiote
been making the most sense out of everyone i've been reading on here

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

people keep saying "well ffxi did it" or other mmos have better animations.

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Considering they weren't working on Wings of the Goddess from the start to my knowledge, the fact they added a full range of Dance battle animations in a relatively short time (same frame as ARR production time) they could easily knock it out, especially with the team they have employed. Not to mention that they use MoCap for animations to begin with, that alone speeds up the process and takes out a lot of clipping errors from manual design.

Considering 'Standard MMORPGs' doesn't pay much attention to detail like SE tends to, it could just simply be because they want people to feel at home when they move from their MMO to FFXIV, rather than completely stand out from the crowd. The engine can support it because even 1.0 using Crystal Tools you can see the differences in FFXIII/FFXIII-2 battle animations between the characters, so it's more than doable.

http://www.bladeandsouldojo.com/uplo...2_4_343454.jpg

^What I wish monk stance was...

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

The engine can support it because even 1.0 using Crystal Tools you can see the differences in FFXIII/FFXIII-2 battle animations between the characters, so it's more than doable.

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i mentioned a few times it IS doable, i didnt say it wasnt. but it takes along time to do. i cant confirm that wings of the goddess was started and completed in that time frame but if it was, then it should still be clear that it was done in a short amount of time because they had a smaller task and was therefor able to focus on the smaller things with a bigger team. making an expansion pack and remaking an entire game is completely different. the team has other priorities right now that range from alot more than just animation which normally a team working on an expansion pack wouldnt have to worry about because its already done.
like i said it IS doable, but with the amount of work that the development team has to do right now its not probable to do it in this time frame.
let them finish the tasks they have, finishing the game engine and optimizing textures and rebuilding maps and all that. and then when there work dies down, then they could have more people to work on giving the game that extra polish.
also, mocap does make animation faster but its not by any means easy. theres tracking that needs to be cleaned up based on lost marker possitions, then transfering that as a baked animation to a program like motion builder to edit the animation. since motion capture data and and skeletal rig sizes on characters are different in size, alot of work needs to be done to fix things like arms going into your body or feet not on the ground. then after its fixed then it can actually be modified to look good.
all doable, but just imagine how much time that takes. if multiple people are working on different animations then it goes by faster. but the teams are also divided alot to work on more tasks

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

i mentioned a few times it IS doable, i didnt say it wasnt. but it takes along time to do. i cant confirm that wings of the goddess was started and completed in that time frame but if it was, then it should still be clear that it was done in a short amount of time because they had a smaller task and was therefor able to focus on the smaller things with a bigger team. making an expansion pack and remaking an entire game is completely different. the team has other priorities right now that range from alot more than just animation which normally a team working on an expansion pack wouldnt have to worry about because its already done.
like i said it IS doable, but with the amount of work that the development team has to do right now its not probable to do it in this time frame.
let them finish the tasks they have, finishing the game engine and optimizing textures and rebuilding maps and all that. and then when there work dies down, then they could have more people to work on giving the game that extra polish.
also, mocap does make animation faster but its not by any means easy. theres tracking that needs to be cleaned up based on lost marker possitions, then transfering that as a baked animation to a program like motion builder to edit the animation. since motion capture data and and skeletal rig sizes on characters are different in size, alot of work needs to be done to fix things like arms going into your body or feet not on the ground. then after its fixed then it can actually be modified to look good.
all doable, but just imagine how much time that takes. if multiple people are working on different animations then it goes by faster. but the teams are also divided alot to work on more tasks

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Despite how long it might take, that's not an excuse; they can still do it, and I hope they do.

My poor hyur looks like an absolute retard with a sword/shield combo, and I've never been a huge fan of the running animation. A lot of animations in-game are ugly, aside from a few of the emotes we have..

And right now, the game has too many unused emotes anyway. Of the bunch we have, only 7 or 8 are ever used on a regular basis by people. They could cut those out, save the extra memory, and put the effort towards what really needs polish; battle animations, the non-fluidity of auto attack, and making abilities look far more diverse and interesting.

The bottom line is, 2.0 is a push to save the game (possibly the franchise, since Versus XIII isn't going too well) so they need to pull out all the stops and focus on the more appealing details. I'm fairly certain that unless people are logging in to use the game as a chat room, they'll be in battle or some other event where actions will be seen much more often than spamming emotes. Simply saying "it will take longer" is not an acceptable excuse.

guys, come on
why we still arguing on this
Dev clearly said they will make this low priority, so give them a chance

the point is, the game isnt born yet
dont try make this another premature (re)birth
let them learn to crawl, then standing, then walking
then, you can put any kind of clothes as you like

People act like we are asking for completely new animations for each race. Let the base of the weapon skill be mostly the same but the beginning or ending change. Didn't play XI but I love how for Helix Arrow (I think it's called that) the Elves simply get pushed back and step forward while the Mithra do a front flip forwards.

Or better yet, go watch stardiver (drg ws I think it's called lol) and watch the ending difference between the female humes and the Mithra. Little things like that make your race feel unique! That's what we want.

Chaos Thrust for example. End the last thrust with miqote flipping while the Lalafell end with their body falling. I don't know, just something that is unique for every race lol

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Originally Posted by Yucie

Despite how long it might take, that's not an excuse; they can still do it, and I hope they do.

My poor hyur looks like an absolute retard with a sword/shield combo, and I've never been a huge fan of the running animation. A lot of animations in-game are ugly, aside from a few of the emotes we have..

And right now, the game has too many unused emotes anyway. Of the bunch we have, only 7 or 8 are ever used on a regular basis by people. They could cut those out, save the extra memory, and put the effort towards what really needs polish; battle animations, the non-fluidity of auto attack, and making abilities look far more diverse and interesting.

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i cant explain any clearer. its not an excuse, people say they want more unique animations, im saying on the level of diversity most of you are asking for is not doable by the time ARR is to be released. that doesnt mean they will never do it, if you cant even give them time to do everything they need to and do it RIGHT, then im not even gonna explain anymore. the entire process of making a game and implementing things into a game takes alot of time, just bottom line.
if you want to take that as an excuse then i cant help you.
its amazing how much the dev team has done and still some people wont settle for anything less then "i want it all now" not later, now.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

People act like we are asking for completely new animations for each race. Let the base of the weapon skill be mostly the same but the beginning or ending change. Didn't play XI but I love how for Helix Arrow (I think it's called that) the Elves simply get pushed back and step forward while the Mithra do a front flip forwards.

Or better yet, go watch stardiver (drg ws I think it's called lol) and watch the ending difference between the female humes and the Mithra. Little things like that make your race feel unique! That's what we want.

Chaos Thrust for example. End the last thrust with miqote flipping while the Lalafell end with their body falling. I don't know, just something that is unique for every race lol

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they still have to redraw everything
and given their tight schedule, no wonder this is low priority

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

its amazing how much the dev team has done and still some people wont settle for anything less then "i want it all now" not later, now.

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heh, some people just cant be argued with

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Originally Posted by rina_inverse

heh, some people just cant be argued with

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The entire FFXIV community?

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Originally Posted by Theplatter

The entire FFXIV community?

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are you representing the entire FFXIV community?
Cause I'm pretty sure I never vote for you

Actually it's a running joke; might want to look around the forums more, brainiac.

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

other mmos had alot more time, you guys want this by ARR? lol
just because its not planned for right now doesnt mean they will never do it, give it time.
this guy knows whats up: Kiote
been making the most sense out of everyone i've been reading on here

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I love that guy! ~.^v

But seriously, people who don't work in the industry will never understand. Not trying to belittle people, it just a fact I've learned the hard way. If you ever actually get the chance to work on the development of a AAA video game, especially an MMO, you will be absolutely blow away at sheer amount of people, time, effort and talent go in to the process. A battle animation requires an Art Team, an Animation Team, a Sound Team, a Dev and Design team, Producers, QA and Executive approval. Assuming that every single one of those teams is dedicated to the task, its still up to a week or more in every teams hands, and that is assuming everything works.

I can honestly say, at every company I have ever worked for, those teams are never dedicated to a single task. It's just not possible.

I think adding new races also hampers being able to make a diverse animation set for each character because you then also have another whole 2-3 sets of characters to animate for.

XI had a small selection of character races but each one was well crafted to the core, Elvaans "Haughty" attitude showed in everything they did they held swords with a hand on their hip like a royal swordsman where most races would hold it like a textbook hero. They shot guns with one hand making use of their long limbs, swung greatswords with wide arcing sweeps...and now it's just all the same for everyone.

Hey guys!

I would like to add some more information to my previous animation post!

In A Realm Reborn, conjuring magic, thaumaturge magic, white magic, black magic, songs, and other categories will all have different casting animations. Also, depending on the type of element, the effect colors will be different as well making it easier to distinguish what type of magic is being cast.

awesome!!!

Great to hear this.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hey guys!

I would like to add some more information to my previous animation post!

In A Realm Reborn, conjuring magic, thaumaturge magic, white magic, black magic, songs, and other categories will all have different casting animations. Also, depending on the type of element, the effect colors will be different as well making it easier to distinguish what type of magic is being cast.

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I'm waiting for u arcanist ;)