Here's why I will not support this healer strike.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Not really that they should listen to just the top percentage players... But this part I would definitely like to point to as a top tier example of what kind of people are testing the game for us users.


Their dedicated and purpose built team for testing content learned about silly things like coordination and communication because they wiped too much.

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Meanwhile, we're just out here, even as casual raiders, slapping down markers for people to stand around in most raid fights, not even talking to each other, and clearing in PF... They really are completely out of touch with the game, aren't they?

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Originally Posted by Zadood

I can understand for not support a strike, but then again, what's the alternative to get CS3 to acknowledge the job and content design issue that FFXIV is currently facing?

Continue to be complacent and willingness to settle for mediocrity is definitely not helping as well.

So... do you have any better idea to voice it other than a strike?
Mind you, CS3 have been ignored healer's feedback for years since SHB is launched.

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Yeah: stop grinding yourself bloody.

Videogames are not open source projects. We have complained (me too, I don't like the excessive Glare mashing either) we have been heard, the DEVs stuck to their guns. Why? Because there is no actual issue as far as they are concerned.

A handful of us forum diehards in a sea of happy players who don't give many hoots either way (or prefer it because it's easy).

We can either accept or vote with our wallets and move on.
Because in the end, that is the only language a corporation like SE understands. As long as we keep paying, they've done everything right in their books.

I keep reading these contradicting points of view.

"You can't demand changes unless you're a top 1% player having experienced and cleared the hardest content , thus proving mastery of the role."

But also

"You only want changes because you're the top 1%, average healers don't want changes or have any problems with the current design."

I think this only proves the playerbase has no idea who the ShB healer kit pruning was made for. It's not the top players, it's not the average players.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

I keep reading these contradicting points of view.

"You can't demand changes unless you're a top 1% player having experienced and cleared the hardest content , thus proving mastery of the role."

But also

"You only want changes because you're the top 1%, average healers don't want changes or have any problems with the current design."

I think this only proves the playerbase has no idea who the ShB healer kit pruning was made for. It's not the top players, it's not the average players.

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Apparently it was for the players who can't read, because it seems like those are the only ones defending it.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

Better to just call it like it is. Embarrassing
Like your taking this whole 2 lines I said onto entirely yourself. When I and 9999,% of the human race don't know who you are. I didn't ONLY check your lodestone. I checked most of them
So chil out lmao

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Does anyone else sees the irony in this? Can you actually put together a cohesive argument, or are you going to dig yourself deeper into a hole? You've not only been attacking someone repeatedly, but admitted to what even reddit considered stalking more than once now. Bravo.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

but admitted to what even reddit considered stalking

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looking at somebody's public achievement page is stalking now? so this is why reddit has the reputation it has

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Does anyone else sees the irony in this? Can you actually put together a cohesive argument, or are you going to dig yourself deeper into a hole? You've not only been attacking someone repeatedly, but admitted to what even reddit considered stalking more than once now. Bravo.

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Man needs to update his character profile. It says Reaper, but the dude's out here maining Clown instead.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

looking at somebody's public achievement page is stalking now? so this is why reddit has the reputation it has

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It's unsavory to not be able to respond with arguments for or against and instead go to look at people's profiles to find something on them.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I can go through all of the pages and put up statistics too. If there is a methodology showing how the information was collected and easily verifiable, please link it here and I will stand corrected. I also randomly checked to see the progress of some of the more vocal people here and 99% did not touch anything that is beyond casual content.

And yes, you dabbed in some EX, but even so, you failed to grasp the entirety of your class. It's not just about the healing, it's also about uptime, slide casting, clipping, utilizing your entire kit effectively while executing mechanics, and having as little overheal as possible. No job is unidimensional.

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how can one be expected to use ones ENTIRE kit when a majority of that kit are heals that you rarely touch because people dont need healing?

or do you mean the ENTIRETY of my dps kit.. which consists of basically, glare, and dia .... so, 21111111 etc, with the occasion, for variety Presence tossed in so I can use.. wow.. Glare IV.

I wont support it because I will play how I always have.
I level Warrior 1st then WHM then a DPS.
After all 3 are leveled, I queue with what gives me the quickest queue.

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Sure, acceptable. You are 1 in how many?

Since when changes are done on outliers? If you don't enjoy the role why do you insist on it?

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It isnt outliers and it's across all levels of play that people find healers unfun. That's why the thread and the amount of positive reactions it had is remarkable. For a long time I thought it really was just the raiders that are bored of playing healers but actually it turns out it's unfun for many casuals aswell. That's why they're giving feedback and why many are stopping to play healer. You say "why do you insist on it" when stopping to play healer because it's perceived as unfun is describing exactly what the plan is. Which leads me to the conclusion that you just dont like seeing critical feedback about the game being posted.

If you're taking any job that can heal others (RDM, DNC, SMN, etc), you're not going in without a healer. Self-heals are extremely weak and are meant only as an emergency to hopefully survive until someone with an actual heal can help you.

I largely don't care much about this healer strike, I don't think it will result in the change they're hoping for. Strikes rarely do, after all, and even less so in an MMO where nothing of real world value is being impacted.

That said, healers do need changes. Or rather, encounters need changes so that healers can be healers. One-shot mechanics, body-count mechanics, spike damage mechanics... none of these are fun. Neither for the target nor for the healer. Beyond that, I won't claim to have any revelatory solutions. I don't need to be able to paint a masterpiece to recognize a masterpiece. I can see when something isn't good, even if I don't know how to fix it. The only time Healers should be thinking about DPSing is when they overgear the content. Anything before that line is crossed should be about healing and survival of the party. But I'm from old school healing, back when healers didn't have time to DPS because they had to keep the party alive.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

If you're taking any job that can heal others (RDM, DNC, SMN, etc), you're not going in without a healer.

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If you're taking any job that can take a hit (DRG, BRD, BLM, etc), you're not going in without a tank.

The vast majority of content hits like a wet fart.

The reasons I don't support them is because I do not agree with their methods and their CONSTANT harrassment of other topics that remote mention the word 'healer'
I also don't think that a few hundred out of 30+ mil players refusing to play a role will do anything in the grand scheme of things so there's that 2.

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Originally Posted by Sylpharia

The reasons I don't support them is because I do not agree with their methods and their CONSTANT harrassment of other topics that remote mention the word 'healer'
I also don't think that a few hundred out of 30+ mil players refusing to play a role will do anything in the grand scheme of things so there's that 2.

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i really doubt they are stupid enough to believe the strike is going to do much directly

they just try to get attention.... and they did get more than they would have with another random healer feedback topic. so i guess you can say that whole thing was a success.

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Originally Posted by Sylpharia

The reasons I don't support them is because I do not agree with their methods and their CONSTANT harrassment of other topics that remote mention the word 'healer'
I also don't think that a few hundred out of 30+ mil players refusing to play a role will do anything in the grand scheme of things so there's that 2.

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I agree with you, I've just been reading the forums over the last few days and as soon as someone mentions they like healer or are happy/not supporting the strike you have the same 5-6 people gang up on the one person calling those who like it stupid or braindead... I won't name names but they know who they are and it's absolutely abhorrent behavior and they should be ashamed of themselves.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

It isnt outliers and it's across all levels of play that people find healers unfun. That's why the thread and the amount of positive reactions it had is remarkable. For a long time I thought it really was just the raiders that are bored of playing healers but actually it turns out it's unfun for many casuals aswell. That's why they're giving feedback and why many are stopping to play healer. You say "why do you insist on it" when stopping to play healer because it's perceived as unfun is describing exactly what the plan is. Which leads me to the conclusion that you just dont like seeing critical feedback about the game being posted.

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It's unfortunate for some people to hear, but it really is outliers. There were ~1.1 million active players before DT's early access started, so figure with more people coming back we're likely closer to ~1.5 million now. The "reaction" to the "strike" post is meaningless in comparison. Just look at what's happening in-game. Tanks remain the most "in need" role (I just checked on Aether this moment and the entire roulette board is Tank). It defaults to tanks even if tanks/healers are "equally" in need, but it's just further hard evidence that the amount of people involved is minuscule compared to the playerbase.

Again, think about that. There's over a million people playing this game. You could put any position you wanted out there, and you'll find "many" people aligned with it. It doesn't mean there aren't many more taking different positions. That concept gets even further amplified when you look at the comments being made and realize that people finding it "unfun" do so for many different reasons which often completely contradict each other (which further limits the ability to usefully change anything).

Oh, and as one last note just to give a sense of numbers. The "strike" post is almost a month old and has just under 400 "likes". Someone made a positive hype video about DT on Youtube 4 days ago and it already has just over 850 "likes." The forums are just a very small sliver of the actual playerbase.

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I also don't think that a few hundred out of 30+ mil players refusing to play a role will do anything in the grand scheme of things so there's that 2.

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Just need to point out the number of players you're using is the total number of accounts that have been created over the entire life of the game, not the number of presently "active" ones.

I wish this healer strike is real, but seeing how I play almost exclusively healer and rarely ever get a healer bonus for DF, this strike sounds like fake news.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

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The game/devs are explicitly asking people to post their feedback on the this forum. The healerstrike is just a firm feedback. That feedback isn't for you to act on. I am very sure that people giving the feedback aren't trying to adhere to your opinions about when it's worth giving feedback. So if there is anything in these feedback threads that is pointless, it's discussions about the validity of feedback on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

I agree with you, I've just been reading the forums over the last few days and as soon as someone mentions they like healer or are happy/not supporting the strike you have the same 5-6 people gang up on the one person calling those who like it stupid or braindead... I won't name names but they know who they are and it's absolutely abhorrent behavior and they should be ashamed of themselves.

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Which 5-6 are swarming to intimidate those that are happy or like healer?

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Originally Posted by Manamaru

Which 5-6 are swarming to intimidate those that are happy or like healer?

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Some people are mildly salty in other threads but that's about it. Kathryn here is just another one of those people who get snarky and then act all hurt when someone returns fire. Nobody is calling people who like the current healers stupid or braindead. The only things being called braindead are the healing jobs themselves. Nobody is "ganging up" on anyone. Some people just can't take disagreement.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

I wish this healer strike is real, but seeing how I play almost exclusively healer and rarely ever get a healer bonus for DF, this strike sounds like fake news.

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It may as well be fake. I still don't believe it will make a dent in the queue times especially at the start of the new expansion. It's misguided, mismanaged, and misplanned. The FF14 community is fully capable of getting noticed when they come together in a positive light, but piggybacking a strike created in response do a video is just not going to get the response they want. They just don't understand the stigma already associated with that. It doesn't matter how valid their reasons are if they're dismissed outright because of it. Yet some of them feel like they need to justify their reasons to me or say I'm ignoring things, when I only suggested they try to get their message out another way. I never said they were invalid. These people will be their own undoing. They want to be heard but don't actually listen to reason. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if they want to keep doing the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Cercie

It may as well be fake. I still don't believe it will make a dent in the queue times especially at the start of the new expansion. It's misguided, mismanaged, and misplanned. The FF14 community is fully capable of getting noticed when they come together in a positive light, but piggybacking a strike created in response do a video is just not going to get the response they want. They just don't understand the stigma already associated with that. It doesn't matter how valid their reasons are if they're dismissed outright because of it. Yet some of them feel like they need to justify their reasons to me or say I'm ignoring things, when I only suggested they try to get their message out another way. I never said they were invalid. These people will be their own undoing. They want to be heard but don't actually listen to reason. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if they want to keep doing the same thing.

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Like the constant feedback healers have given for the last 6 years? Spending countless hours detailing everything that is wrong with the role. Only to get ignored by the devs and most other players.

But if you are sure there is an alternative that works even better, and isn't just a repeat of the failed attempts of the last 6 years that you can find in the healer subforum, I am fully supportive of your innitiative. When can we expect that action?

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Originally Posted by Isala

If you're taking any job that can take a hit (DRG, BRD, BLM, etc), you're not going in without a tank.

The vast majority of content hits like a wet fart.

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That comparison doesn't work. Not all jobs can heal others, but all jobs can take a hit.

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Originally Posted by Cercie

It may as well be fake. I still don't believe it will make a dent in the queue times especially at the start of the new expansion. It's misguided, mismanaged, and misplanned. The FF14 community is fully capable of getting noticed when they come together in a positive light, but piggybacking a strike created in response do a video is just not going to get the response they want. They just don't understand the stigma already associated with that. It doesn't matter how valid their reasons are if they're dismissed outright because of it. Yet some of them feel like they need to justify their reasons to me or say I'm ignoring things, when I only suggested they try to get their message out another way. I never said they were invalid. These people will be their own undoing. They want to be heard but don't actually listen to reason. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it if they want to keep doing the same thing.

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Yeah like... Have you ever been on the internet? Healers trying to give positively constructed feedback for years is all over the shop. It's in the forums all over the place - go take one step in the healer forums and see for yourself. Here's a 180 page 4 year old post from a cursory glance. It's on reddit. It's in podcasts. It's discussed by personalities in the community.

The strike itself is both worded carefully and incredibly respectfully, all things considered. Plus, you really have no right to cast judgement on how people choose to play the game. Whether someone actively opts not to player healer through coordinated action or they just don't queue healer because they think it's grim - the result is the same.

Nobody is forcing you to take part and nobody has been uncivil. If you genuinely think this begun from Xeno doing a dungeon without a healer, you haven't played the game. It's been going on for years and years and is getting worse as time goes by.

The healer strike, and much else are pretty much contained here. The forum is an echo chamber. Loud, but not at all representative of the player base at large.

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Originally Posted by Cercie

Without Yoshi P at the helm, FF14 would be in trouble because SE has many issues that have lead it into near financial ruin multiple times.

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Jesus Christ. That you're one of the ones who think Yoshi-P and Final Fantasy XIV are single-handedly keeping Square Enix financially afloat essentially blows all of your credibility completely out of the water. I mean, this man just finished helming Final Fantasy XVI for f's sake, and that entry is amongst the myriad reasons why the recent SE financials reported significant deficits lol.

How can anyone expect someone who believes something so blatantly inaccurate to keep adequate hold of any degree of actual facts?

On a slightly more on topick note, while I do not oppose it from an ideologickal perspective nor believe it 'in bad faith' or 'misguided' I sadly do not imagine the Healer Strike is actually gonna accomplish anything. Call me a cynick I guess? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by FuwafuwaMii

The healer strike, and much else are pretty much contained here. The forum is an echo chamber. Loud, but not at all representative of the player base at large.

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The devs explicitly ask player to give feedback about the game on this forum. There is no requirement for that feedback to be representative of the opinions of the playerbase at large. Pointing out we don't know the opinions of a few million other people adds or detracts nothing to that feedback.

If you feel the devs need a better way to collect feedback, you are free to provide them some suggestions. You can provide that feedback on this website.

Maybe if square enix has such robust methods of collecting data that they truly know exactly what the playerbase wants then they should be sharing that with us and being more open about their design methods because if there is one thing that unifies all listening posts opinions right now (even shitter) it’s the fact that square’s recent decisions and design direction don’t seem to align with anyone’s feedback (here and discussion sub don’t like the direction the game is going as a collective, mainsub didn’t like the job changes and is weirdly angry at the jazz choice for the city BGM, shitter doesn’t like the character graphics update and Facebook doesn’t really like the MSQ)

Everyone seems to believe that feedback is drawn from somewhere else so people are pretty unified on feeling like feedback is not acted on

Bottom line, play what you enjoy.
Healer strike is a wake up call saying, hey, are you actually enjoying healer? Or just instant queues? You should expect more for how expensive and time consuming the game is. Play a dps or something and realize how much more fun it is, at least until they get simplified into oblivion.
I want to play a different game, myself. Dawntrail not hitting for me so see ya in 8.0.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Some people are mildly salty in other threads but that's about it. Kathryn here is just another one of those people who get snarky and then act all hurt when someone returns fire. Nobody is calling people who like the current healers stupid or braindead. The only things being called braindead are the healing jobs themselves. Nobody is "ganging up" on anyone. Some people just can't take disagreement.

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Oh yes, they are. Pick your way through the strike thread. I dared to mention recently that I actually find I need to heal in DF dungeons, and the first response "liked" by almost 20 people was just trying to insult and belittle me by saying I must be a bad healer (which doesn't even make any sense given the context of the echo chamber's own arguments...). It's very revealing the kind of toxic people are pushing the strike, and if you're someone who likes healing and is willing to speak up about it, you definitely see the cabal ganging up on people.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Oh yes, they are. Pick your way through the strike thread. I dared to mention recently that I actually find I need to heal in DF dungeons, and the first response "liked" by almost 20 people was just trying to insult and belittle me by saying I must be a bad healer (which doesn't even make any sense given the context of the echo chamber's own arguments...). It's very revealing the kind of toxic people are pushing the strike, and if you're someone who likes healing and is willing to speak up about it, you definitely see the cabal ganging up on people.

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And the pages upon pages of people calling us everything from casual idiots who need to do savage to toxic raiders who want to exclude the casuals not to mention the unhinged fanboy that decided to stalk all our logs to create a spreadsheet for the content creators to use and the amount of vitriol directed towards Gemina including people who are publicly posting and laughing at her logs doesn’t count

You certainly have a very one sided view of the problems here. There definitely seems to be a strong element of “strikers you need to police the entirety of your sides arguments” but then when someone opposes the strike and goes unhinged it’s “hey man that’s their opinion”

public expressions of mental illness are fun.

Have you seen the majority of the people in the healer thread. They are horrible people who are nasty, dismiss others opinions and make personal attacks for no reason. You can't have a different opinion in there without being attacked.

I don't think the people who are in the healer strike represent our positive, helpful and respectful community, and they should be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You certainly have a very one sided view of the problems here. There definitely seems to be a strong element of “strikers you need to police the entirety of your sides arguments” but then when someone opposes the strike and goes unhinged it’s “hey man that’s their opinion”

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And here's the perfect example of someone being dismissive, one-sided, and ironically being toxic:

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Have you seen the majority of the people in the healer thread. They are horrible people who are nasty, dismiss others opinions and make personal attacks for no reason. You can't have a different opinion in there without being attacked.

I don't think the people who are in the healer strike represent our positive, helpful and respectful community, and they should be ignored.

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If people didn't have double standards, they'd have no standards at all.

I think those of us who do not support it should bump this thread. Tho I do support the idea of some changes to skill expression, the rest to me is meh

I honestly like the design of healer in this game because, well, Green DPS. Having healed in WoW as well, it just feels cozier here (at least for me!).

I generally play healer in content when I want to have a more laid-back experience overall. If I want to have a super easy time, I'll usually go WHM, or if I want to throw cards at people (and have slightly more involved play), I'll opt for AST.

That said, I've never felt like healing has been EASY in Ultimates or Savage-tier content in terms of outgoing damage versus amount of HP healed, and that seems to be like one of the things people want changed. Like, in early prog, some AoEs will just straight up wipe groups? I guess it becomes easier as fights are learned and memorized, but I don't know if just making stuff hit harder and having us hard cast more spells necessarily makes the jobs feel more enjoyable?

Moreover, it seems like there has been at least SOME effort in Dawntrail to make dungeon bosses a bit more healing intensive.

I dunno...like, just because content CAN be done with a solo healer or healers can be foregone entirely doesn't mean it's the optimal way for content to be cleared?

I guess it's possible I'm misunderstanding as well though.

The thread about it here is headed by one of the biggest reactionary clowns on this forum, so I could never take it seriously to begin with tbh.

I am curious about some things in the healer protest thread but if I ask them there, I will likely get bashed for it so I will ask it first here since it seems a little more clear headed.

How do you make healing more compelling? In order for a healer to do their job then someone has to get hurt right? They throw in unavoidable damage in the dungeons to help the tedium of not having people get hurt but if you want to do more healing then more people have to get hurt so they want more people to almost die to make their gameplay better? They forget that their content is other players and npcs that get hurt. How else can you put it? Are the players not supposed to get better at dungeons and not get hurt and die less? I thought learning the dungeons to make them easier was the point.

They want to be able to do damage in between healing but they don't want other classes to be able to heal themselves? Wasn't the healing for dps and tank classes put in to appease the solo player out in the wild and make them more survivable back in the day? Obviously as you grow in levels that heal for dps becomes almost useless because it does not scale very well at all. I remember when my summoner could heal almost anything with just the one heal and I use to be able to take over when the healer died, now when I use it, it barely even moves the bar so I have to spam it when taking damage and I end up running out of mana. Tanks are a different story. I have seen my daughter take a boss from half health to nothing with a tank class, I don't remember which one but I think it was paladin, just by healing herself after everyone else died. It took almost perfect timing of the heal and getting out of the way of everything the boss threw at her but that was a 4 man dungeon. Now THAT may have been a bit OP.

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Originally Posted by Sadebreth

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The main problem we run into is that yes players should become better at the game and when they do they take less damage that is totally fine, there is two problems however (and a third if you include savage)

1) people should get better at casual content, but that doesn’t mean that the damage should be so low the tank can basically completely overtake the healer role, right now in anything below extremes the tank knowing how to press their shared mitigation that heals their target and use their raidwide is enough to heal anything as long as people aren’t taking massive avoidable damage, the tank is also functionally immortal in mob packs because of their self healing. Other roles having healing is fine, other roles having a level of healing that overtakes the healer role is not. This leads into problem 2

2) when there is nothing to heal which is quite often given how low the damage is and how much the other roles can heal there is so little to do to keep us engaged, we have one nuke and 1 DOT and maybe an extra flavour ability on a decently long CD. So when the other roles are healing for us we end up having nothing to do of any interest. For example let’s take pictomancer, it’s big level 100 attack heals everyone for 400 potency. Since PCT is a caster it has main and mend so that heal is as strong as a healer using indom. Why does PCT need this? Should the reward for star prism be…….casting star prism, it’s a big powerful flashy attack.

3) savage exclusive (mostly)- healing is savage is extremely rote memorisation in savage and body checks lead to lack of triage healing so the 1 button spam becomes even more noticeable