These Relics Aren't Relicing

Idk why people keep calling just playing the game at all "grinding". It's kinda silly tbh

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

You answered your own question, you just won't accept the answer.

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You cherry picked a specific part of my post and proceeded to ignore every single ounce of context for the rest of what I said. In what world is that an appropriate response?

Yes, I hear you a million times, but what I want answered is the part after your cherry picked statement: "That's exactly what the tomestone weapon was for" (and still is.)

Let's imagine that I have a small ice cream cart that fits two tubs of ice cream. Every day I'd bring a tub of vanilla and a tub of chocolate. Let's say that you love vanilla but hated chocolate. Now, all of the sudden, instead of bringing one of each, I now just bring two tubs of vanilla. Doesn't exactly seem fair to the people who loved chocolate, now, does it? But you don't really care, do you? Because all that matters to you is you like vanilla.

Well you already had vanilla, you already had the tomestone weapon which has gotten easier and faster to grind than ever before. Why do you also need the relic? Because by taking the chocolate ice cream away, now everyone who doesn't like vanilla is forced to pound sand because my little ice cream cart now only caters to one half of the people who used to get ice cream from me. So I'll ask the last question again: What are those of us who want chocolate and not vanilla allowed to have if you have to have the tomestone weapon and the relic weapon?

The question to ask yourself is whether this is about the weapon itself, or about the associated content.

ARR had some fantastic weapon designs and some truly iconic name references. It's unlikely that we'll ever see that again, simply because of the increasing number of jobs with each expansion. Final Fantasy lore doesn't have hundreds of iconic weapon names to give out. It's unfortunate, because I would have loved to see an equipable Save the Queen greatsword utilizing a classical, symmetric design and the Ragnarok Zeta glow effect.

At the end of the day, though, the weapons themselves just come down to being fun glamours, and there are lots of alternative ways for players to at least get close to BiS months before they drop.

I think the more important question to ask is the type of content that you ought to attach to the relic. Ideally, players should feel like progressing towards completion of their relic takes them through new content. ARR started out strong in this regard, by having you complete the HM Primals to get to your first step. But outside of that, both ARR and HW very much stuck to having you grind out old content, at which point you might as well just be collecting tomestones like we are now.

Where Stormblood and Shadowbringers excelled was in creating unique zones for the relic. I think Eureka was a bit more ambitious, had more varied zones, and did a better job of creating a sense of overworld danger and exploration. Bozja was more streamlined and more forgiving, but had some really great innovation with the duel system. Both had some phenomenal group content, between Baldesion Arsenal and Delubrum Reginae Savage, both of which have multiple weekly runs even still from their own dedicated communities, much like all the Deep Dungeon content does. I feel like if you want to create a good exploratory zone and good relics, those are the people whose opinions should be sought first and foremost.

But the biggest thing is - they need to start it rolling early, by which I mean shortly after expansion launch. It doesn't matter if the weapon is completely redundant. I don't think the weapon 'progression' matters nearly as much as simply having access to a large zone filled with players to explore together and discover its secrets. In a way what you're really emulating is that older style of MMO where you have to be a bit more patient and rely on a sense of community.

My only comment would be no- not "Delubrum Reginae Savage" but "Delubrum Reginae", while I'm sure DRS has its fans I would say that the value of DR in terms of the relic far outweighed DRS, as did CEs

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Originally Posted by Bellsong

Idk why people keep calling just playing the game at all "grinding". It's kinda silly tbh

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I guess we can call it grinding when people also try and play the game as little as possible.

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Originally Posted by Bellsong

Idk why people keep calling just playing the game at all "grinding". It's kinda silly tbh

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In Mao opinion, grindings is doing exact same thing overs and overs again without something different in-between. Is usually much borings. Comes in 2 flavors. Hard grindings which is something likes working same gathering nodes or doings same dungeon overs and overs again, and soft grindings which is something likes daily roulettes which is basically same thing each day buts consists of bunch differents dungeons and trials and stuffs. Note that for some peoples, certain activities mights not be borings. For example, Mao nots find gatherings borings.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

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No, I specifically meant DRS. Neither BA nor DRS were mandatory for the relics, but they really illustrate how you can enjoy the content created around the relics without having a specific interest in the relic weapons themselves. I was not a fan of the final Bozja Resistance Weapons designs, so much so that I only bothered to submit one (despite having enough of a stockpile of materials on my retainers from running the content to make others). My point is that I actually enjoyed the relic content (and associated achievement challenges) much more than the relics themselves, and that's where their real value lies. I don't think I've been entirely happy with a final relic step since ARR, despite making at least one weapon from each expansion, and if that was the only attraction then I wouldn't have been all that interested.

I think that Castrum, DR, and Dal are good gateways into getting people interested into this style of content, but both BA and the misnamed DRS are completely unique in terms of the group play and the atmosphere that they bring. It's similar to how only doing 30 floors of Orthos gives you a skewed perspective of what a Deep Dungeon is like, despite the fact that the average group of four players is more than capable of doing a full run with a little bit of trial and error. I think in the case of DRS, they just didn't want to repeat the situation with BA where cutscenes were gated behind completion of slightly harder (but still not 'Savage') content. But they really should encourage more people to get into it to see what it's like for themselves, as there's nothing like it anywhere else in the game.

^i wouldn’t say DRS is misnamed, DRS is 100% at the level of ShB savage (ie enrage is the true villain not body checks on every mechanic)

Trinity avowed and queen are easily 2nd floor savages, trinity seeker, queensguard and Minotaur are first floor savages then ghost and dahu would be extremes, I’d also argue that slimes has easily a savage level of leeway before you straight up wipe the entire raid but the actual mechanic isn’t terribly hard

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Originally Posted by Bellsong

Idk why people keep calling just playing the game at all "grinding". It's kinda silly tbh

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When it comes to RPG's, the term "grinding" in general just refers to doing the same thing repetitively until you reach a certain goal. If you're pounding out roulette after roulette, for example, in order to get tomestones for the relic, you're grinding. It's not silly - it's the basic meaning of the term.

Well currently with the Bozja relics at this point in time due to the general lack of players actively doing DR normal, I'd really just suggest clipping a good chunk of the HP off the bosses to make the fights noticeably shorter with 1-3 ppl and also making that DPS check phase a bit easier to complete when lacking ppl, while also increasing the amount of timeworn artifacts awarded for finishing it. Honestly I feel like this is all the tuning the process needs as no longer current content.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Well currently with the Bozja relics at this point in time due to the general lack of players actively doing DR normal, I'd really just suggest clipping a good chunk of the HP off the bosses to make the fights noticeably shorter with 1-3 ppl and also making that DPS check phase a bit easier to complete when lacking ppl, while also increasing the amount of timeworn artifacts awarded for finishing it. Honestly I feel like this is all the tuning the process needs as no longer current content.

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You can easily solo DRN, you just need to use offensive Essences. They 100% should not nerf anything

Back to the topic of the thread (idk what all this DRS and whatnot talk is about), it really feels like, given the theme, the glow, and especially the fact that the glow colour of the final step of each of the Manderville weapons is identical (something that has not happened with any other relic), I cannot help but think they ran out of time designing the models for the final form, and just shipped the models that were intended to be the reward for the new Arcadion raid Savage. Compare, for example, the final forms of the Bozjan relics. PLD's yellow-white, WAR's red-orange, DRK's purple, GNB's blue. The theme is similar, with the 'teardrop' shapes for the glow, but the colour is different. By comparison, the Manderville weapons.

And as an additional point of comparison, how about the Asphodelos weapons? They, like the Manderville relics, share a consistent theme and colour scheme for the glow (white fantasy script, marble/stone looking weapons, any 'missing chunks' due to damage replaced/repaired by the glowing white 'letters')

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You can easily solo DRN, you just need to use offensive Essences. They 100% should not nerf anything

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For me and anyone else that has good essences and also those passive buffs all capped it's definitely soloable. The fights just feel like they drag on longer than they should. However I don't think someone without the passive buffs and just basic grade essences can pass the DPS check phase of the 4 mini bosses solo.

Everything else about it is just a matter of actually doing mechanics.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

For me and anyone else that has good essences and also those passive buffs all capped it's definitely soloable. The fights just feel like they drag on longer than they should. However I don't think someone without the passive buffs and just basic grade essences can pass the DPS check phase of the 4 mini bosses solo.

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Then does that really warrant a nerf, if you know what you are doing it’s soloable, if you don’t it’s at worst duoable, it’s not like the game is forcing you to try to find 23 other players

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Then does that really warrant a nerf, if you know what you are doing it’s soloable, if you don’t it’s at worst duoable, it’s not like the game is forcing you to try to find 23 other players

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It's more of a thought tbh to address 2 things.

1. the ppl complaining about timeworn artifacts

2. potential new ppl trying to progress the content as I believe clearing DR normal is required to even access the 2nd bozja area.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

It's more of a thought tbh to address 2 things.

1. the ppl complaining about timeworn artifacts

2. potential new ppl trying to progress the content as I believe clearing DR normal is required to even access the 2nd bozja area.

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The rest of Bozja is group content as well though, DR doesn’t need to be made (more) soloable because it’s a part of group content and you barely need anyone to actually do it, getting 8 members for a farm run is really easy, getting 2-4 people who know what they are doing to carry you through is even easier

What’s the point of nerfing content that isn’t hard to get people to do

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You can easily solo DRN, you just need to use offensive Essences. They 100% should not nerf anything

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I would say that's more of a poor experience (for me at least) to solo that content unless someone deliberately chooses to do so, in comparison to how it's meant to be run, as long as at least some people are using appropriate essences. Which is why it's a real shame that the current design doesn't allow for it to have been added to a roulette.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I would say that's more of a poor experience (for me at least) to solo that content unless someone deliberately chooses to do so, in comparison to how it's meant to be run, as long as at least some people are using appropriate essences. Which is why it's a real shame that the current design doesn't allow for it to have been added to a roulette.

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That I think is part of the issue with DR is it's separated from bozja's exploratory zone instances and as a result it makes the bottleneck in the relic assembly line process if you're doing multiple at the same time to have 1 going at each step worse. If it had at the least been added to Duty Finder it would probably be populated more often.

However overall, reducing the HP pool of the bosses doesn't really impact the actual content outside of the noted DPS check phase of 1 battle. It only really reduces the amount of time spent completing it. (Though I am aware of numerical "sweet spots" with the echo buff that easily result in clears faster than having a full instance of ppl)

Did you skip the entire 6.0 manderville quest dialogue? LOL. If you play FF at all, you should know there’s usually a high tech civilization that got wiped out a long time ago, so technically yes, it could be a relic just not in the traditional sense. A relic of an “ancient high tech civilization.” But more specifically in this case, an ancient alien race that died off. The final step totally fits that motif. I do agree that the tomestone grind definitely seemed low effort.

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Originally Posted by Nubrication

Did you skip the entire 6.0 manderville quest dialogue? LOL. If you play FF at all, you should know there’s usually a high tech civilization that got wiped out a long time ago, so technically yes, it could be a relic just not in the traditional sense. A relic of an “ancient high tech civilization.” But more specifically in this case, an ancient alien race that died off. The final step totally fits that motif. I do agree that the tomestone grind definitely seemed low effort.

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Nah, the DT relic is going to end up being an actual PSO2 collab where Gerolt meets someone from ARKs and gets to try his hands at forging Photon weaponry... which at the end of said questline will award a special glamour weapon... the Photon frypan to complement the kettle we got back in ARR lol

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The rest of Bozja is group content as well though, DR doesn’t need to be made (more) soloable because it’s a part of group content and you barely need anyone to actually do it, getting 8 members for a farm run is really easy, getting 2-4 people who know what they are doing to carry you through is even easier

What’s the point of nerfing content that isn’t hard to get people to do

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Good luck trying to DF DRN and getting more than two people, both of whom likely will have less idea on whats happening than you. And PF is not a solution when no 'normal' content in the game otherwise requires it, it is, and should be, reserved for hardcore content only.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

Good luck trying to DF DRN and getting more than two people, both of whom likely will have less idea on whats happening than you. And PF is not a solution when no 'normal' content in the game otherwise requires it, it is, and should be, reserved for hardcore content only.

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If you can’t set up a PF (that will fill) that’s more a you problem than it is a system problem, you’ve already said you struggle due to bad play times. You can’t blame the content if you are queuing at 3am server time; if you are in that situation you need to be making PF’s, because sticking it in the roulette isn’t going to help because it’s almost impossible to get nier to pop at the same time

Or if it’s too much of a problem transfer to JP/NA, one of their server peak times must align with your playtime if EU is outside your time

I got the relic for my RDM main and it's my 1st. I like how accessible it is because I hate long grinds and fancy shiny weapons so I never bothered to get the relics from the other expansions. The overly fancy design is the reason why I instantly covered this one up with the Lakeland Smallsword. I only wanted the relic because of the high ilvl, it will carry me through half of Dawntrail, lol.

Honestly, my only complaint about the relic that is really valid is that they put too much pressure on the mid tier tomestone with this, since we got to use it for the catchup gear and crafting mats. It would have made more sense to have an inflated poetics price since the poetics aren't used for much of anything, and it would open up people to doing older content that needs participation.

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

I got the relic for my RDM main and it's my 1st. I like how accessible it is because I hate long grinds and fancy shiny weapons so I never bothered to get the relics from the other expansions. The overly fancy design is the reason why I instantly covered this one up with the Lakeland Smallsword. I only wanted the relic because of the high ilvl, it will carry me through half of Dawntrail, lol.

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Which an upgraded tome weapon would also fulfil and yes, the upgrade mat will be obtainable outside savage soon.

We already know an exploratory zone is coming in 7.0 and you can bet it's going to reward relics most likely. Devs may have seen more people get this relic but they also see how dead the game is outside very small and specific time windows and their sagging revenue and will not use short term easy relics again.

That said, I'd like to see a hybrid model of non exploratory steps and exploratory steps with branching paths for completion to protect against it becoming outdated. But the non exploratory finish should be a grind.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

We already know an exploratory zone is coming in 7.0 and you can bet it's going to reward relics most likely. Devs may have seen more people get this relic but they also see how dead the game is outside very small and specific time windows and their sagging revenue and will not use short term easy relics again.

That said, I'd like to see a hybrid model of non exploratory steps and exploratory steps with branching paths for completion to protect against it becoming outdated. But the non exploratory finish should be a grind.

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I have good news and bad news for you. The good news is that the dev team, as you mentioned, decided long ago that the next xpac would have an exploratory zone, and their tendency to stick to formulas that work gives us good reason to believe the relics will be involved with it in some way. The dev team recognizes the wide variety of players, and has a history of making content that appeals to different sub-groups each time around.

The bad news is if you're pinning your hopes on mystical scenarios that have no connection to reality, like "sagging revenues" and "dead games." The game is packed with people doing a ton of different things - heck on Aether hunt trains have even started going back to announcing server-side only instead of DC-wide at times because there's too many people. I also enjoy queuing for specific dungeons that don't get much play while doing my WT activities, and queues for even the odd ones have been going quickly all of EW. I understand it can be frustrating when you see a dev team make decision you personally don't like, and desperately want the game to "fail" as a way to say "I told you so," but the reality for FFXIV just isn't that. EW has the highest playerbase of any expansion, topping ShB at every point along the way, and FFXIV is one of their most reliable prime revenue generators (don't confuse SE's overall finances with FFXIV specifically).

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

No one has yet to actually give me a good answer to my question.

We already have a tomestone weapon that one can obtain by grinding whatever content they want. "I prefer that I could grind whatever I wanted for EW" okay, awesome. That's exactly what the tomestone weapon was for. Meanwhile players who wanted more intricate steps with branching, yet specific resources to obtain had Relic weapons. What purpose was there to giving both weapons the same path to obtain them? Why wasn't the tomestone weapon good enough? Why do you need both? And what is left for the players who clearly don't like the tomestone grind path and preferred the relic grind path? If you would rather relics stay a simple tomestone grind every step, then what is it those of us who want the old relic grind experience get to have instead? What do you suggest we get?

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First just to get it out of the way, I like the idea of a smoothed out grind experience and I certainly like the idea of a passive (ish) tomestone can get me some really sweet stuff, that said I was also surprised that they just jumped right there. To me this seemed like a 7.0's relic patch, but I don't hate it- though I can see why it was also a bit of a bummer for players looking for something else.

That said as to why? "dont you already have a thing?".. sure.. but think of it why one when you can have two? Okay, maybe not your favorite answer but it is one. Let's make it less garbage answer though, if I want a weapon ASAP for just any ol job I go tomestone regular, if I want a talking piece I go relic. That's a better answer. It's just like buying anything with real money. I can get some cheap Ikea Ross whatever have you art to put in my house, but then I can also get some handcrafted artisanal work purchased from a far away place, I use the same currency for both. The idea of a specific currency, therefore, shouldn't be relevant. What should be relevant to why people like this is because they get two really reasonable options to spend 'currency' with (time, money, whatever). Do you want function, or do you want the more expensive prestige option? These are fantastically logical currency choices, in and out of game. You've offered me two options I like.

Bringing currency back, for some people that are trying to accomplish a lot or mix it up the best currency is making you do something 'different'. Variety currency. Meanwhile if I'm not doing very much or love what I'm already doing.. the best currency is poetics. Thus you've explained why someone who is satisfied with poetics would also be satisfied with two solid options.

Now it is a game, and people are already earning this passive (ish.. again lol) currency, so when a relic comes along with the opportunity to paint a story and also cause players to approach the game differently.. give them something outside the norm.. and it doesn't. I respect that disappointment. Also not asking you to like that the two options is good for some players, just that I hope you could see that is just a whole combination of streamlined, achievable, and logical (logical in the sense that you have two options, one is an investment tomestone, the other is get it fast tomestone). Worlds most casual friendly relic lol. "Don't change how you play, just invest in me if you want". I might want the cheaper option, or maybe not. They therefore both have a purpose.

To address tombstone + upgrade vs Relic, relic has more visual variety, different and more pacing, and is not the same 1:1 which is to say they are not perfectly interchangeable concepts. Particularly tomestone + upgrade is still cheaper option, which doesn't take away the original "investment vs function".

I'd probably have started out with something different (adding tomestones later) OR that and 'also' started with higher tomestone prices (make both easier over time), but ending up where we are now.. works for me. The ease and system don't have to be the same either, like the next one might be Beast Tribes getting custom delivery Bonus mechanics, and also items and systems that can smooth relic steps. Originally I suggested for the really old relics, like you can give Ixali tokens to complete adventures for pages in your book, each page costing progressively more than the last (so it's really cheap for one page, and then more thereafter).

I imagine the next relic will use their new exploratory content, so we'll be back to the Bozja relic song and dance soon enough. "ONLY BOZJA, DONT YOU DARE MAKE STUFF OUTSIDE OF BOZJA GOOD" "I HATE BOZJA, GIVE ME OTHER OPTIONS". Yeet. Personally hope the next relic can be completed without any party exclusive stuff (perhaps patched in later), some of the steps of previous exploratory relics are quite annoying due to how the content was designed (when coming to it when it's old, it's fine when it's new).

I'd just appreciate it if they'd stop shifting Genres at the very last hurdle more than anything.

This relic quest was entirely too passive both in terms of story, and cutscenes, and in terms of the goals of each step, and each step being the same. I hope the relic quest in Dawntrail is significantly more active both in terms of story, and gameplay. Also completed relics still can't be stored in the glamor dresser or armoir.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

No one has yet to actually give me a good answer to my question.

We already have a tomestone weapon that one can obtain by grinding whatever content they want. "I prefer that I could grind whatever I wanted for EW" okay, awesome. That's exactly what the tomestone weapon was for. Meanwhile players who wanted more intricate steps with branching, yet specific resources to obtain had Relic weapons. What purpose was there to giving both weapons the same path to obtain them? Why wasn't the tomestone weapon good enough? Why do you need both? And what is left for the players who clearly don't like the tomestone grind path and preferred the relic grind path? If you would rather relics stay a simple tomestone grind every step, then what is it those of us who want the old relic grind experience get to have instead? What do you suggest we get?

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Write a list of tasks in the style of old relics yourself or get someone to write one for you. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Xaphire

I hard-disagree though.

I prefer this method of obtaining relics (which is actually the same as every other iteration, it just lets you choose what thing you're going to grind). And I like the look and effect on the final stage weapons.

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The problem is they chose a resource that is shared between multiple different things in the game, making it obnoxious to deal with in a lot of regards. Crafting materials that need tomestones and the materials for upgrading the crafting armor both use those tomestones. And when someone says that we get to choose what content we are doing: So basically Roulette and hunts? I guess if you are max level maybe you just coincidently get a small amount from pvp.

What makes relic grinds typically better is when there are steps you can do while you are sitting around in PF waiting for groups. Thanks to the DC travel and how they engineered this relic the FFXIV experience has been pretty lackluster after probably patch 6.1 or 6.2. I can't really remember when it hit since it has been so long.

On the note of DR, as I vaguely saw this discussed -- I'm not entirely sure it's the best solution to nerf DR in the long run - Perhaps adjusting the scaling of it when there are only 2-4 players to help facilitate players that are doing the content for the first time. Beyond that...

I think increasing the rewards in PotD or adding additional places where you can get the items required for the relic. - Just making the yield guaranteed for the Timeworn artefact from PotD; that alone would go a long way, and would probably produce the best results.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

On the note of DR, as I vaguely saw this discussed -- I'm not entirely sure it's the best solution to nerf DR in the long run - Perhaps adjusting the scaling of it when there are only 2-4 players to help facilitate players that are doing the content for the first time. Beyond that...

I think increasing the rewards in PotD or adding additional places where you can get the items required for the relic. - Just making the yield guaranteed for the Timeworn artefact from PotD; that alone would go a long way, and would probably produce the best results.

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I was saying to my friend in other day about adding good amount of Causality into DRN: revitalize both manderville (lol) and DRN at the same time.

But ofc that's just a band aid.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

What makes relic grinds typically better is when there are steps you can do while you are sitting around in PF waiting for groups. Thanks to the DC travel and how they engineered this relic the FFXIV experience has been pretty lackluster after probably patch 6.1 or 6.2. I can't really remember when it hit since it has been so long.

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That's fine if you have that stuff leveled up but if you don't then you're at the mercy of the MB and as we found out in the early relics, people aren't kind to those looking for those mats.

See: The stuff you can buy on the MB from the bi-color gemstones for the mounts

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

That's fine if you have that stuff leveled up but if you don't then you're at the mercy of the MB and as we found out in the early relics, people aren't kind to those looking for those mats.

See: The stuff you can buy on the MB from the bi-color gemstones for the mounts

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I mean, even so much as being able to do fates to get progress is better than nothing.

The reason we have lackluster relics and no content this expansion is because so many people wanted that ugly new furry, male viera.
All the endwalker budget that could have been used on having content and interesting things to do has gone to waste. Maybe the community will think twice now about demanding a new furry and let them focus on content so that dawntrail doesnt die off before 7.5 like endwalker did before 6.5. the bozjan grind was a grind but it at least kept people playing.

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Originally Posted by Gordita

The reason we have lackluster relics and no content this expansion is because so many people wanted that ugly new furry, male viera.
All the endwalker budget that could have been used on having content and interesting things to do has gone to waste. Maybe the community will think twice now about demanding a new furry and let them focus on content so that dawntrail doesnt die off before 7.5 like endwalker did before 6.5. the bozjan grind was a grind but it at least kept people playing.

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That has literally nothing to do with each other. Also you are an ugly Viera yourself, lol. Somehow they managed to add the female Viera back in ShB and we got a relic grind anyway.

The ressources went into the island sanctuary instead of a new relic zone. And the rework of older dungeons and making them playable with NPCs, variant / criterion dungeons and Eureka Orthos. Basically all of it was badly designed and failed.
But even with the Island they simply could have made us grind fates and dungeons and whatever content there already is in the game like they used to back in ARR and HW. They simply decided not to add a grind by keeping the required amount of tomestones low. Because in the past entitled people complained about the grind I guess?

The ressources to create content were there, but by trying to play it safe all of it was dead on arrival.

When they can add a Moogle Treasure Trove grind then they also can add a relic weapon grind >.>

Side note:
This grouping of Hildebrand quests was probably the least funny of them all, they used to be absolutely hilarious. I think I almost wet myself over the Gazebo jokes, and the "lookout they're getting away" while pursuing the old men hunched over and the last one constantly healing the other's back.

EDIT: That said, from my perspective having multiple classes worked up, I kinda appreciated this version so I didn't have to do a ton of them.

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Originally Posted by Tint

That has literally nothing to do with each other. Also you are an ugly Viera yourself, lol. Somehow they managed to add the female Viera back in ShB and we got a relic grind anyway.

The ressources went into the island sanctuary instead of a new relic zone. And the rework of older dungeons and making them playable with NPCs, variant / criterion dungeons and Eureka Orthos. Basically all of it was badly designed and failed.
But even with the Island they simply could have made us grind fates and dungeons and whatever content there already is in the game like they used to back in ARR and HW. They simply decided not to add a grind by keeping the required amount of tomestones low. Because in the past entitled people complained about the grind I guess?

The ressources to create content were there, but by trying to play it safe all of it was dead on arrival.

When they can add a Moogle Treasure Trove grind then they also can add a relic weapon grind >.>

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Even the moogle event is hilariously bad

Who decided CT was the only alliance raid set that should offer tomestones