Genuine Question for Frequent Negative Posters

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

TLDR: No, the dev just dont care and want money. Thats all. Does not matter how we present any critique. They gave up on games and just want money with the least amount of effort. No, this is not a critique on money making, its the "only money nothing else" whats creating a problem for me.

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I think more people really need to understand this. At the end of the day SE is a business. But they're not gonna change if you just keep subbing despite your grievances. Maybe you leaving won't change anything, but why does it have to be about that? If you (not specifically you Banriikku) are so dejected by the game than that alone is enough reason to unsub. Why give your money to something that isn't giving you your money's worth? Giving feedback is one thing, but it's not my job to spend years sitting on the forums trying to give feedback to a dev that isn't even listening.

There are plenty of far better games out there that I could give my time and money to instead right now. I think some people, particularly MMO players due to sunk-cost-fallacy from paying a subscription fee for so many years and being invested in their characters, get way too emotionally attached to game and that becomes their reason for staying, and gradually they become jaded and some turn toxic. It's a video game at the end of the day, and at a certain point you really just need to step back and ask yourself if this is really worth your continued time and money.

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

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Just proving my point by how you're acting. They haven't listened to you for the past however many years, I don't know what exactly you're attempting to accomplish at this point. Many of you have even ADMITTED that you know they aren't listening. So why do you come here? Other than to cope and farm likes. I think you're just mad and come here to vent your frustrations. At that point, yeah, you are just wasting your time and money. Or if you do in fact think they devs are listening to this place, than insulting other posters, and the devs, is the exact opposite of what you should do, you're only ensuring nobody will listen to you ever. But if it makes you feel better than by all means, it's your $15/month.

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Originally Posted by RaenMan

I think more people really need to understand this. At the end of the day SE is a business. But they're not gonna change if you just keep subbing despite your grievances. Maybe you leaving won't change anything, but why does it have to be about that? If you (not specifically you Banriikku) are so dejected by the game than that alone is enough reason to unsub. Why give your money to something that isn't giving you your money's worth? Giving feedback is one thing, but it's not my job to spend years sitting on the forums trying to give feedback to a dev that isn't even listening.

There are plenty of far better games out there that I could give my time and money to instead right now. I think some people, particularly MMO players due to sunk-cost-fallacy from paying a subscription fee for so many years and being invested in their characters, get way too emotionally attached to game and that becomes their reason for staying, and gradually they become jaded and some turn toxic. It's a video game at the end of the day, and at a certain point you really just need to step back and ask yourself if this is really worth your continued time and money.

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Hmmm... i think you are going too far with "dejected" and "too emotionally attached". You let it look like a buisness transaction without emotion but thats not how a hobby works.
Sooo... how do you go with youre hobby without or less emotions ? Eitherway you are reading too much into it or you are disconnected from reallity.

Better games ? Subjective and depends on what you want. I want a FF MMO and F14 is the closest thing to this. I gave feedback like many other but most of the time we get back " we heard you" or silence. After a looooong wait, we got then some halfbacked features and even absolute tone deaf things and very fishy excuses and/or PR sentiments. Lets be honest youre argument is the same as "no fun ? unsub..hur dur.." just more polite. So some of us or just me, i dont know, are just disappointed in the ignorance and disrespect form other players and the devs alike. Sure we have some people that are absolute doom but on the other hand we have the shiny corporate protectors... so i think its balanced as it should be- Thanos meme here pls.

If you think youre point i valid lets have look the other way around.
HOT_TAKE: If youre fine with the game you should not be on the forum in topics for critique or the forum itself because it is all fine and no feedback necessary. You should only sing praise, be logged in the game and pay for the mogstation. At a certain point you need to aks yourself are these people worth it ..... you could be logged in and playing the critical acclaimed... i stop here.
Sounds bad and absolute bonkers or not ?

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

Hmmm... i think you are going too far with "dejected" and "too emotionally attached". You let it look like a buisness transaction without emotion but thats not how a hobby works.
Sooo... how do you go with youre hobby without or less emotions ? Eitherway you are reading too much into it or you are disconnected from reallity.

Better games ? Subjective and depends on what you want. I want a FF MMO and F14 is the closest thing to this. I gave feedback like many other but most of the time we get back " we heard you" or silence. After a looooong wait, we got then some halfbacked features and even absolute tone deaf things and very fishy excuses and/or PR sentiments. Lets be honest youre argument is the same as "no fun ? unsub..hur dur.." just more polite. So some of us or just me, i dont know, are just disappointed in the ignorance and disrespect form other players and the devs alike. Sure we have some people that are absolute doom but on the other hand we have the shiny corporate protectors... so i think its balanced as it should be- Thanos meme here pls.

If you think youre point i valid lets have look the other way around.
HOT_TAKE: If youre fine with the game you should not be on the forum in topics for critique or the forum itself because it is all fine and no feedback necessary. You should only sing praise, be logged in the game and pay for the mogstation. At a certain point you need to aks yourself are these people worth it ..... you could be logged in and playing the critical acclaimed... i stop here.
Sounds bad and absolute bonkers or not ?

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this tbh, all of this, what a W take

https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...km1Ts4/200.gif

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Originally Posted by Banriikku

HOT_TAKE: If youre fine with the game you should not be on the forum in topics for critique or the forum itself because it is all fine and no feedback necessary. You should only sing praise, be logged in the game and pay for the mogstation. At a certain point you need to aks yourself are these people worth it ..... you could be logged in and playing the critical acclaimed... i stop here.
Sounds bad and absolute bonkers or not ?

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Honestly, I dont disagree with this. The vast majority of my posts here are made only at times and places when I have Internet access but can't necessarily play the game. Otherwise, I would be, you know, playing the game. I disagree a bit with "no feedback is necessary" just because one is enjoying the game. I think it is important to let the developers of my favorite hobby know what I love and what I dont, and that they are appreciated, especially with all the hate, threats, and vitriol game devs have to endure from their community. I also understand this an English forum and its unlikely that my praises (or complaints for that matter) will ever even be seen by anyone of importance.

The forums are, after all, just something to do when I cant play the game.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Honestly, I dont disagree with this. The vast majority of my posts here are made only at times and places when I have Internet access but can't necessarily play the game. Otherwise, I would be, you know, playing the game. I disagree a bit with "no feedback is necessary" just because one is enjoying the game. I think it is important to let the developers of my favorite hobby know what I love and what I dont, and that they are appreciated, especially with all the hate, threats, and vitriol game devs have to endure from their community. I also understand this an English forum and its unlikely that my praises (or complaints for that matter) will ever even be seen by anyone of importance.

The forums are, after all, just something to do when I cant play the game.

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I agree with you, I don't agree with the person whose post you quoted entirely, because it's the same in reverse. Meaning white knight if you are positive shouldn't be posting... Hur dur... The forums are for communications good or bad but as always some people take it too far in either direction. I like reading a healthy conversation or someone who exchanges ideas good or bad. What I don't like are insults because you have an opinion that differs front the herd.

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

This aint what goes on here, did you even read his post ?



Actually rare Zephyr L take right there, same for the rest of their post, they're just unhinged, let alone the tags they posted on this thread that they just removed because I called it out, insulting Macchiato with the P word.

Also hi Pratini/Raenman, using double accounts I see ? That's agaisnt the rules per your own post from an hour or so ago.

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I do want to clarify that I never think in absolutes. While I think some posters are here only for drama and may have an unhealthy attachment to the forums (with a certain such poster even saying this themselves), I don't think any critique of the game is for that reason. Lots of people are here to voice concerns they are sincere about, so it would be an unfair dismissal of such people that generally are here to discuss the game and provide feedback.

If I wanted universal praise only, I'd be on the reddit that I personally can't stand lol.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Honestly, I dont disagree with this. The vast majority of my posts here are made only at times and places when I have Internet access but can't necessarily play the game. Otherwise, I would be, you know, playing the game. I disagree a bit with "no feedback is necessary" just because one is enjoying the game. I think it is important to let the developers of my favorite hobby know what I love and what I dont, and that they are appreciated, especially with all the hate, threats, and vitriol game devs have to endure from their community. I also understand this an English forum and its unlikely that my praises (or complaints for that matter) will ever even be seen by anyone of importance.

The forums are, after all, just something to do when I cant play the game.

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If there's none to little negative feedback about X or Y, but no positive feedback either, then devs need to deduct that people are, in fact, happy with X or Y, since they're too busy playing it. If there is neither negative or positive feedback, then reception is likely good.

Of course it's not that straightforward, they need to make sure participation is there and so on, but in essence, that's about it. Most people don't come here to say what they like, they come here because some negative experience they had.

Okay I will bite, I personally find Endwalker a horribly boring expansion and see they took gambles on new content that didn't pay off as well as previous expansions ideas did in terms of longevity and that really worries me. I don't need the game to have endless grinds mind you but content lasting for more then 2 weeks would be great. I feel this is where exploratory zones really did well, yes you would get your relic step done in a few days but there was still plenty of reason to be in the zones outside of that thanks to lockboxes, the farmable fragments for actions, and the armor sets for glam via currency. I understand people may not have liked them but I think it is a bit hard to deny they added way more to the game then the current Manderville relics do.

I also am well noted on my opinion of I want Endwalker's story over already as a whole. I find the void story utterly boring and lacking characters who should logically be involved and 6.0 wasn't that much of a winner to me either in how badly it framed the cause of the Sundering.

Now that isn't me saying I am fully jaded and don't enjoy my time in the game, I just question a ton of the recent choices. I still enjoy what content there is, it is just a tad short, unrewarding, and the storytelling is a bit bland. For example I am excited to see moogle tomestone rewards are rather good this time around and a raid boss turned mount is not instantly on the store for The Rising event. However as happy as I am about that it hasn't excused the past several months of "Well guess I will just log in to save my house and go play x instead" to me.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

Okay I will bite, I personally find Endwalker a horribly boring expansion and see they took gambles on new content that didn't pay off as well as previous expansions ideas did in terms of longevity and that really worries me. I don't need the game to have endless grinds mind you but content lasting for more then 2 weeks would be great. I feel this is where exploratory zones really did well, yes you would get your relic step done in a few days but there was still plenty of reason to be in the zones outside of that thanks to lockboxes, the farmable fragments for actions, and the armor sets for glam via currency. I understand people may not have liked them but I think it is a bit hard to deny they added way more to the game then the current Manderville relics do.

I also am well noted on my opinion of I want Endwalker's story over already as a whole. I find the void story utterly boring and lacking characters who should logically be involved and 6.0 wasn't that much of a winner to me either in how badly it framed the cause of the Sundering.

Now that isn't me saying I am fully jaded and don't enjoy my time in the game, I just question a ton of the recent choices. I still enjoy what content there is, it is just a tad short, unrewarding, and the storytelling is a bit bland. For example I am excited to see moogle tomestone rewards are rather good this time around and a raid boss turned mount is not instantly on the store for The Rising event. However as happy as I am about that it hasn't excused the past several months of "Well guess I will just log in to save my house and go play x instead" to me.

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I can get on board with this criticism (well done) I agree I don't care for the storyline of the void and agree endwalker story was a bit of a let down for me. I didn't hate it but I don't know something was missing for me. I find so much to do in game though. For me it's a journey not a sprint. I am at the point in my life that I don't have time for the negative anymore. When I get tired I will take a break and come back happy again. I took almost a year break from playing this last time. So no biggie just a refresh.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

I can get on board with this criticism (well done) I agree I don't care for the storyline of the void and agree endwalker story was a bit of a let down for me. I didn't hate it but I don't know something was missing for me. I find so much to do in game though. For me it's a journey not a sprint. I am at the point in my life that I don't have time for the negative anymore. When I get tired I will take a break and come back happy again. I took almost a year break from playing this last time. So no biggie just a refresh.

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You see I understand that but I also have done most long term things I wished to do because I have been here since HW, I did most of what people would recommend when it was current. I personally took up doing the Splenderous Tools and making gil for the materia I will inevitably blow up next expansion. (I have had a slot eat 72 materia before, I know my luck is awful with overmelding.) I will however note one of these is a personal objective and the other is a grind that basically boils down to several macro crafts and hours of gathering. I am not too put off by that myself but I would also struggle to say it is an improvement of say Ishgardian Restoration.

I feel like most if not all criticism of the games story (and music for that matter, not that anyone mentioned it) will fall on deaf ears. Liking the story or not in part or in whole is fully subjective. Good luck changing the story direction when the author still gets standing ovations from huge crowds.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I feel like most if not all criticism of the games story (and music for that matter, not that anyone mentioned it) will fall on deaf ears. Liking the story or not in part or in whole is fully subjective. Good luck changing the story direction when the author still gets standing ovations from huge crowds.

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One mans trash is another mans treasure. This Very much Applies to Story telling whats Garbage to one person is brilliant to another..

They are just Trolls, they exist in ALL MMOS...

Sometimes it is people coming from another MMO and want it to be like the one they just left, why leave in the first place? Also add to that, is that they probably complain about other stuff when they was in previous MMOS.

Mostly it is just trolls on the FFXIV Forum, that just should had moved on long time ago.

The DT kind speech is really on the way out, and is ridicoulous.

They way I see it, as the ones who are most negative are those that have invested a ton of time in the game and the game just cannot release content fast enough for them anymore as they've already did most, if not all, things that can be done. Yet they're too addicted to take a break and stamp their feet because the game isn't releasing at a pace that they want. Meanwhile, most players don't have that problem as very few players have thoroughly beaten the game at that state.

Why Stormspeaks isn't in the first page? the world isn't the same

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Originally Posted by Elissar

Why Stormspeaks isn't in the first page? the world isn't the same

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They are they are an alt called RosariaDLB or something along those lines...you honestly thought stormy wouldn't respond to this haha :P

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Feedback needs to be constructive, whether positive or negative, if it's going to be helpful in improving the game. When you resort to using hyperbole, derogatory words and insults directed at the devs or other players, you're undermining yourself. Those reading can't help but doubt the reasons you are posting.

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I don't really agree with the notion that all feedback needs to be constructive to be valuable. Sentiment is still pretty valuable on its own, and it's frequently going to be the role of the professional to contextualize customer sentiment, positive or negative.

Getting messages from customers that are just blocks of insults and profanity isn't that uncommon if you are designing consumer grade software, and the stuff I've seen at my job is 1 million times worse worse than the types of criticisms that appear on these forums (almost all of the 'negative' posts here could very easily be characterized as constructive btw). It is hard to convey just how mild the types of negativity on these boards really are. Absolutely no developer in my company is even remotely phased by stuff way more deranged than what gets posted here, and I seriously seriously doubt anyone in CBU3 really feels upset about the content of these forums. The notion of a developer in a corporate setting ignoring feedback because it hurts their feelings is legitimately beyond absurd.

CBU3's handling of customer feedback is worthy of criticism. FWIW, they aren't really listening to JP that much either, as parts of the JP community have also been pretty vocal about a lot of the exact same grievances players in NA have. When customers in two fairly separate regions with a major language barrier both have the same exact complaints about certain systems, it really tends to say something.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

They way I see it, as the ones who are most negative are those that have invested a ton of time in the game and the game just cannot release content fast enough for them anymore as they've already did most, if not all, things that can be done. Yet they're too addicted to take a break and stamp their feet because the game isn't releasing at a pace that they want. Meanwhile, most players don't have that problem as very few players have thoroughly beaten the game at that state.

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And is it wrong to ask for rewarding content that would keep people around a bit longer? I did Eureka Orthos in a duo and rather enjoyed it, but I had to do it in a duo because of no one doing it unlike PotD or HoH prior which I easily got into well after their releases. If I had a guess this is due to initial difficulty and exp just not being high enough to be worth using to level jobs are the main issues. You can see a very similar issue with how quickly Variant and Criterion die due to yet again lack of good rewards. If anything it seems very counter-intuitive to me to have such short term content in a game that seems to be priding itself on the idea "Take a break whenever you want! This will all still be doable when you get back!" and yet we have content that dies so quickly after introduction. I feel as previously stated PoTD, HoH, Eureka, and Bozja, and even Diadem and it's several iterations never ran into these issues that hard. Honestly the reward structure for a lot of EW content needs to be re-evaluated and I hope given a lot of it is returning in Dawntrial it is being looked at.

Negative? i rather call myself positive with all the facts.
I think XIV can be greater. So much more.

I also like it for what it is, if not my money would not be here.

But there are glaring shortcomings in several areas, systems, and services - Including the quality, quantity and frecuency of interaction between the developing team and the playerbase. Or rather, the forums themselves.
Remember that the forums were the main line of feedback during the transition into ARR. But after it that line was completely cut, they just wanted market oriented feedback on the west and that was it, the focus has been always been on the japanese community. And thats a huge red flag.

The game is lacking, the content is slim this expansion. The lack of resources, and people probably, working on XIV is showing.
Dawntrailer has the chance to introduce core changes to the formulaic ten year old design, but it seems it's gonna be the retirement expansion instead of the vacation one.

BU3 should dedicate their entire workforce to XIV. Not other proyects.
SE is having one of their worse times with one complete comercial failure (didn't read the west well once more... zero connection with reality) Forsaken and XVI has not meet the expectatives of the company (when has anything really... Is there enough for SE?)

Endwalker clearly suffered cuts for the production of XVI.

I know most of the white knights in these forums really enjoy the MSQ or whatever niche/high end content, and all the best for you.
But calling every piece of criticism, commentary against design, implementation, communication as bad, lacking, etc just as "hate" and "trolling" is alike to live in a bubble.

XIV right now is lacking content, and most of it's progression/rewards don't even make sense with the kind of design philosophy behind the proyect. If i were to compare XIV now to the famous Yoshi-P .ppt at the GDC not much would match...
A game with for example very short lived relevant content, and timed exclusive non-returning rewards also preaches itself on being a "take a break when needed" game?

Is things like that which even main streamers of the game playing at the very high end have been calling out.
For example the fact that gearing in this game works as if player characters were single class instead of omni-classes. You gear one "main class" and then the struggle goes up and up. Which doesn't make sense as everything from encouter design to high end mechanics revolves arround the idea of players knowing what other roles can do or how they work.
One the main reasons why static groups fail and splinter even after a sucessful tier is that comes a time to re-gear other classes... Gearing is not good.

The sorry lack of a Field Operation this expansion.

The uninspired Deep Dungeon.

The unrewarding Criterion/Variants.

All disconected from the process of gearing/progressing characters, either veritcally or horizontally.

And lastly that, the lack horizontality - Or why Eureka and Bozja were interesting.


Yeah, there is plenty to talk about FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

And is it wrong to ask for rewarding content that would keep people around a bit longer? I did Eureka Orthos in a duo and rather enjoyed it, but I had to do it in a duo because of no one doing it unlike PotD or HoH prior which I easily got into well after their releases. If I had a guess this is due to initial difficulty and exp just not being high enough to be worth using to level jobs are the main issues. You can see a very similar issue with how quickly Variant and Criterion die due to yet again lack of good rewards. If anything it seems very counter-intuitive to me to have such short term content in a game that seems to be priding itself on the idea "Take a break whenever you want! This will all still be doable when you get back!" and yet we have content that dies so quickly after introduction. I feel as previously stated PoTD, HoH, Eureka, and Bozja, and even Diadem and it's several iterations never ran into these issues that hard. Honestly the reward structure for a lot of EW content needs to be re-evaluated and I hope given a lot of it is returning in Dawntrial it is being looked at.

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I mean, they are doing that. Just not at a pace certain players want. They've been gaining players and most players aren't hitting that wall as they aren't playing FF14 hardcore.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

I mean, they are doing that. Just not at a pace certain players want. They've been gaining players and most players aren't hitting that wall as they aren't playing FF14 hardcore.

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"they've been gaining players"

lmao

Who are these white knight players anyway, that proclaim the game is 100% flawless and perfect in every way? I keep hearing about these posters who worship at the alter of Yoshi P and scream at anyone with the slightest criticism? Where are the posts? Who are these people? Im not saying there are zero people like this, im sure theres a post here and there somewhere but I dont think I have seen even the most devoted lovers of this game (and I love it a lot myself) come out and say the game was perfect in every way and was undeserving of any criticism ever and always?

Just because someone is overall positive about the game, or still generally loves it or god forbid, disagrees with "you" about something you dislike, doesn't make them white knight sycophants.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

I mean, they are doing that. Just not at a pace certain players want. They've been gaining players and most players aren't hitting that wall as they aren't playing FF14 hardcore.

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How have they been doing anything about those complaints? The lack of rewards wasn't changed in Mount Rokkan despite several bigger content creators citing the lack of rewards in Sil'dih Subterranean and no mention of it came up at fanfest at all about reward structure. There is no guarantee there is ever a change to that formula. I will give you they did say they wanted to go a new direction with how Deep Dungeons are approached but without any further details that is a very vague statement. After seeing what Endwalker delivered thus far there has been no statements Dawntrail will be any different in content and reward structure. To me that is an issue and thus here I am hoping somehow the feedback gets back to them that another expansion repeating Endwalker's flaws with content reward structure is concerning, especially given this is one that seems to be echoed by as I said prior larger content creators.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

Who are these white knight players anyway, that proclaim the game is 100% flawless and perfect in every way? I keep hearing about these posters who worship at the alter of Yoshi P and scream at anyone with the slightest criticism? Where are the posts? Who are these people? Im not saying there are zero people like this, im sure theres a post here and there somewhere but I dont think I have seen even the most devoted lovers of this game (and I love it a lot myself) come out and say the game was perfect in every way and was undeserving of any criticism ever and always?

Just because someone is overall positive about the game, or still generally loves it or god forbid, disagrees with "you" about something you dislike, doesn't make them white knight sycophants.

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It's about emotional attachment foremost. For what it's worth, there is a negative phenomenon of the same nature; They're usually called Antis.

White-knights are people who are emotionally reliant on the perception of a product being 'good' or 'successful', to the degree that their opinions about aspects of the product are more informed by that emotional attachment than they are by actual reason or experience. This leads to a strong willingness to be disingenuous, and frequently a kind of aggressive drive to suppress or otherwise shut down the products 'dectractors'. It's most noticeable when it comes to things like long running franchises, development companies or live-service games; This game happens to check all 3 of those boxes, which I believe may be partially responsible for the abundance of white-knight types (and antis) in its community.

Essentially, people get called white-knights when other people start to suspect that their opinions and arguments are overly informed by their emotional reliance on the games perceived success, as opposed to being genuine assessments formed by reason/experience. A pretty common example would be a white-knight defending the design of a system in the game that they have never actually played or interacted with, which happens a mind boggling amount on these boards.

Where a suspiciously negative poster is a troll, a suspiciously positive poster is a white knight (or a shill, but it's pretty irrational to think SE would pay to AstroTurf forums when they can't even be bothered to read them).

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Note that half the topics in this forum are made by the same person with 2-3 alts that they change every month or so. There are genuinely a lot of negative posters because people mostly come to forums when they want to complain, but the alts are a significant contributor to this.

They want it to be better though and the point is to communicate it.

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I have yet to see any actual proof of there being this hidden alt army. Just feels like baseless conspiracy nonsense. "Clearly this many people can't disagree with me! They must all the the same person!"

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I have yet to see any actual proof of there being this hidden alt army. Just feels like baseless conspiracy nonsense. "Clearly this many people can't disagree with me! They must all the the same person!"

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Aye, there is no hidden alt army -- just a couple posters who like putting up the posts that are occasionally considered incendiary enough to give them forum vacations and/or post too often for the daily limits, at which point they rotate to an alt account.

I've yet to see more than 2 of their accounts active at the same time, and there's no appearance of either inflating their like counts noticeably off their alt accounts alone.

Tbf, though, it's also not the only excuse used to dismiss any disagreement. "You're all DPS mains in disguise, working per some conspiracy" / "You're all actually elitists, with some oligarchical agenda," and "You're all just a vocal minority anyways" all worked fine even pre-Titanmen.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Seriously, I don't even know where people get the idea that 7.0 is going to fix or even partially fix the problems with this game, it's not just one or two people, it's like the majority of the playerbase.

If you don't like the game at all, unironically save yourself the money and quit now because at this point this game is irredeemable. There's literally no point in waiting for 7.0 to fix anything. Spoiler: they won't. Only reason to stick to this game is for secondary, non-game purposes.

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It depends on what the individual player sees as problems.

A lot of players don't see any problems. Of course they're excited for Dawntrail, it's a new expansion.

Other players only see as the lack of a new exploration zone this expansion as a problem. YoshiP said the developers are working on ideas for a new exploration zone in Dawntrail. That solves the problem for those players (as long as one gets released).

Job design is a mystery at this point since they usually don't announce vague details until the JP FanFest and wait until the media tour to go more in depth. It feels like some players think it can't get worse and so whatever changes are made in Dawntrail will be an improvement.

What are the problems you see with the game that you feel won't be addressed in Dawntrail?

Keep in mind that the NA FanFest is what it has traditionally been - a big teaser. EU adds in some more teasers with a little bit of specific information (one of the two jobs will be announced, we'll probably get concept art for 2-3 dungeons, etc.). JP FanFest is when the big picture comes together.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

A lot of companies have policies for devs not to directly interact with players. Nothing good comes of it in communities as toxic as this one. If I was a dev and saw how people act here I’d stay far away. When people are rude and entitled they aren’t owned the devs time.

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Yet not everyone is rude and entitled.

I'm in the group of those who think the developers should be spending their time actually working on the game rather than spending their time reading/listening to player feedback and replying directly to them. But the developers aren't the only staff working for the game.

The Community Managers have traditionally been the link between players and developers in most games. Getting the occasional "we've been watching the feedback in this thread and passing it onto the developers. We've made a special note of X problem that was mentioned" even when they can't give us specific answers is helpful.

Silence only adds to player frustration. The more frustration experienced, the more likely one is to become hostile.

I'm not going to accuse the Community Team of not doing their job because I don't have access to their job descriptions. But it would be nice if SE had them engaging with community regarding feedback instead of just using them as a PR/marketing tool on social media and through the stream events, and writing Lodestone topics.

Knowing the feedback has been seen and forwarded would help.

(edit: to add in it would be nice they also posted translations of some of the JP publication interviews on Lodestone. It's rough when we're relying on other members of the player community to get information. It looks bad on the game.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I don't really agree with the notion that all feedback needs to be constructive to be valuable. Sentiment is still pretty valuable on its own, and it's frequently going to be the role of the professional to contextualize customer sentiment, positive or negative.

---

Isn't that the sort of attitude that's causing problems in the service industries right now? "It's your job so suck it up and deal". Turns out human beings are tired of being told that.

More and more businesses are starting to realize that no, the customer doesn't always have to be right and especially not when they're being hostile to people simply trying to do their jobs to the best of their ability. Many are more likely to start cutting ties to those customers than serving them.

You don't need to use expletives and personal attacks to express sentiment. "I feel frustrated" is a lot more likely to garner a response than "You are garbage and should be fired".

If the lack of response to player feedback is starting to get bad on all sides, then definitely it's time that SE take a closer look at what they have the Community teams doing.

Good thread, OP.

I think ultimately what matters is that people keep their criticisms to the game, not other players. When folks are attacking other players, that's not valid criticism of the game, and it shouldn't surprise anyone that folks see that and think the people doing it are kind of rage filled haters. (As can be seen even in this thread's first couple pages).

On the other hand, criticism of the game itself can be done by people that want to see the game improved (or at least improved from their perspective), which is honestly fine, though it must also allow people to argue the opposed position of they happen to like things as they are.

When the criticisms shift from the game to attacks on other players and other perspectives, I think that's when it becomes toxic. There's no benefit and the Devs can't improve the game based on "I think the only people that want X are people that AFK in Limsa all the time and don't even play the game" or similar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Isn't that the sort of attitude that's causing problems in the service industries right now? "It's your job so suck it up and deal". Turns out human beings are tired of being told that.

---

I think you're talking at cross purposes. In general in corporate settings it is rare the person working on a product will be the one dealing with customer feedback on it, unless we're talking about settings where the customer is directly providing input on the product's design, which will generally be B2B contexts or internal customers. And if you're involved in that kind of work, yes, you do need thick skin, not necessarily because of insults etc, but because your work will be directly criticised. However, for mass market products like this, you generally have specialised teams dedicated to handling customer feedback, so I'm not really sure how the picture you paint connects with such a setup.

Quote:

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You don't need to use expletives and personal attacks to express sentiment. "I feel frustrated" is a lot more likely to garner a response than "You are garbage and should be fired".

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Yes but it's almost like you're picturing this as someone yelling at a barista or something for getting their coffee wrong.

The general expectation in dealing with consumer complaints is that the customer does not have the right to become abusive with the staff member dealing with them and that communication can be terminated at that point. But that's simply relevant to direct interpersonal contact and not the only way feedback is obtained. Also, rare is the business that would simply end a customer relationship altogether, just because the customer became emotional. Especially for a larger, more established business, it's not professional or good commercial practice.

Instead, a business seriously interested in improving its offering would try to understand what in the customer journey led to that frustration and how it can ameliorate it. Sometimes there may be legitimate reasons to the customer's frustration (habitually ignoring feedback/malicious compliance, for example...) and it's important to understand that to improve your product/service design.

Furthermore, if the business is harvesting feedback from third party sites, it cannot expect to have control over what is said and there is potentially valuable feedback being left on the table if it does not harness that. And especially on sites with anonymity and which don't regulate what can or can't be said, you're going to have the occasional "X should be fired", expletives etc.

All LittleImp seems to be saying to me is that the feedback does not need to be able to precisely pinpoint how the product could be improved to be valuable... and I 100% agree with this:

Quote:

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The notion of a developer in a corporate setting ignoring feedback because it hurts their feelings is legitimately beyond absurd.

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Hiding behind a few nasty comments here and there and using it as a pretext to ignore feedback is neither wise nor a respectable practice, IMO.

What the devs can control is their own website and it certainly would be nice if we saw more of an effort on SE's part there, but it's not the only way they could ask their customers for their thoughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

If you mean the WoW sub then that subreddit is literally filled with more FF14 players than WoW players and players that havent played WoW in 10 years but still decide to have an opinion on it. They pretty much overran the subreddit around 2 years ago and the mods didnt care.

But aside from that, what even is your point?

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I believe i said WOW FORUMS...if i meant subreddit i would have said subreddit, just cuz you want to make on mindset negatively on this game don't think im too dumb to know what im talking about or mean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I have yet to see any actual proof of there being this hidden alt army.

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Then you have not looked closely enough. They are typically a new forum user (made this year) and have a character with all crafters/gatherers leveled and 1 job leveled to 90. They are in a Free Company and are the only person in it, slowly ranking it up and often use the same second name as their main, although not always. Their character appearance is often the same or similar to their main, although not always.

If you don't know why someone would do this, let's just say they could make a lot of gil that way and work out the rest from there.

The accounts with the traits I described tend to make half the topics in this forum (and have for a very long time). Just SE banned a whole lot of them the other day as well as some of their new ones they tried to use in their place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Then you have not looked closely enough. They are typically a new forum user (made this year) and have a character with all crafters/gatherers leveled and 1 job leveled to 90. They are in a Free Company and are the only person in it, slowly ranking it up and often use the same second name as their main, although not always. Their character appearance is often the same or similar to their main, although not always.

---

That, in itself, describes a poster, who has used a series of accounts, not an army.

I.e., the difference between bigamy and serial monogamy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Smart boss.



Bro you need to look in the mirror.



This right here is why people mention Atelier's alts. There's nothing inherently wrong with having alts but this guy will say that Eureka/Bozja are boring but he'll play through MSQ a gazillion times.



A normal sprout only has to do the content once, you forced yourself to do it four extra times.

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I seriously have 9 characters. None at max though one (my main) is halfway through Shadowbringers. I just love ARR and Heavensward and get the itch to do it again on a different character and figure out better faster smarter ways to go through it. Stormblood is always my hard stop. I made it through it once but I really did not like that expansion. So far I am loving Shadowbringers though.

We all play to do different things. If we didn't have something we enjoyed we wouldn't still be here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That, in itself, describes a poster, who has used a series of accounts, not an army.

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Why should the term "alt army" not be used to describe a large collection of alt accounts acting as a group and controlled by a single person?

It seems an accurate description to me. It reflects the number of accounts the person is using.

And yes, it is an army, not a series. They appear to have several active at any one time and sometimes stage arguments against themself or post multiple comments in a thread one after the other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Why should the term "alt army" not be used to describe a large collection of alt accounts acting as a group and controlled by a single person?

It seems an accurate description to me. It reflects the number of accounts the person is using.

And yes, it is an army, not a series. They appear to have several active at any one time and sometimes stage arguments against themself or post multiple comments in a thread one after the other.

---

I've yet to see any more than two accounts at a time.

An army would be capable of hijacking threads wholesale and inflating like-counts regardless of public sentiment. His don't. His threads usually see as much activity as they do because they are directly lie near to an already contentious issue, and there are plenty of real posters responding with agreement to his less ironic / pure-bait posts, for the simple fact that they don't happen to be (taken from) rare or spurious positions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I want to preface this by saying this isn't a judgment, but rather genuine curiosity; I'd like to better understand a perspective that is different than my own that I have trouble relating to.

I also want to get ahead of anyone who might want to jump in with a snarky reply to dunk on the posters I'm asking about: please don't. I'm not interested in hearing what you think about frequent negative posters; I'm interested in hearing their own genuine words and thoughts. Please do what you can to avoid turning this thread into a conflict. Thanks in advance for being cool.

Okay, with all that out of the way, I've noticed that the FF14 forums seem to have numerous users who regularly post in ways that suggest that they feel very negatively about the game. I'm not talking about folks who post a thread here and there with criticism of certain aspects of the game; rather, I'm talking about folks who post frequently and almost exclusively have negative things to say about the game.

And that's kind of what I don't get, because at least for me, if I disliked something that much, I would personally want to get away from that thing, rather than expose myself to more of it every day. Which makes me think that I'm probably misunderstanding these posters, or perhaps I'm only seeing one aspect of them that isn't representative of them as a whole.

So here are some questions for frequent negative posters, the answers to which I hope will bridge the gap and help me better understand your perspectives:

---

Sure, I'll bite. I've been negatively posting since 2019!

• Do you overall dislike the game?
  Yes and no. I like Final Fantasy XIV, in general. I specifically disliked, and now hate Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker.
  • If so:
    • Why do you stick around in the game/forums?
      
      The forums in theory are the only place where I can speak to my concerns about the game state, and have it actually be recorded somewhere for discussion or reference. Reddit is unbearable, 4chan is unhinged, Discord is a stream of consciousness, and Twitter is a cesspit. Even if I enjoy FFXIV, there are several things about it that can be improved, and outside the game itself, there are several things Square Enix can do to make the experience of the players more enjoyable, less divisive, and ensure the next ten years is spent expanding and improving the game, not dismantling it. No king lives forever, but that doesn't mean you poison a perfectly alive king to get the next one in (see: removing things to improve them. Destroying problems, not solving them) Yes, I am well aware the developers most certainly do not listen to the tiny minority, I never positioned myself fighting against that inevitability. I simply wish we could coexist and there was more communication. I also really enjoy reading posts from certain users who have analytical analysis of mechanics or designs.
      When it comes to the game itself, FFXIV is one of the few games out there that I have a very intimate, and almost complete understanding of. The only games that I have more of a grasp are Soulsborne games. Like I said in my previous posts, I am a gameplay focused player, but I also have a love of good, in-depth world building and lore, and possess a deep connection to my personal character. I'm less focused on characters outside of my own, and more focused on how civilizations, bonus points for grounded flawed or collapsing ones, deal with each other and in the wake of crisis, which is why I enjoyed the game in it's more isolated expansions, unless Garlemald was a core antagonist during the plot. Ergo, HW/SB/ShB good, ARR/EW bad, joking, joking. And of course, a class with dark magic and a greatsword, if that combo exists in a game, I am programmed to enjoy it at some level. And sometimes, there is a glimmer of brilliance in the gameplay suite. I stick around seeing if we will ever get back what was taken from us, or if we can exceed even those limits. Basically, I'm a glutton for getting disappointed. Good thing I'm off playing other games these days, this is the first tier I haven't completed since Heavensward!
      
      • Does something about it give you enough joy to be worth your time?
        
        There is a bit of masochism required to enjoy the forums at any point, but the fact that I have continued to play XIV in it's current state despite my preferences towards previous expansions hints towards masochistic tendencies on my behalf anyway. There are legitimate times when the forums have useful, insightful commentary on the current state of the game. You will not find it in General Discussion, because it's been rendered into a No Man's Land between two very different factions of FFXIV players. And to state again, when there's a good, well sourced, informative post on the forums, it's REALLY good, even if it's a bit spicy. Posts like that are few and far between as of late, sadly, there's just no reason to make them with a game this dumbed down and solved, and a community this split and brutal to each other.
        
        For a snarky response, the forums are unironically more engaging than the game itself at this point.
      • Is there something that gives you hope that things will get better, and thus you're not ready to leave just yet?
      • Or something else entirely?
        
        Eh, unsure. There's quite a bit of sunk cost fallacy in there. I have honestly given up on expecting the world from FFXIV, which is a shame, because there was a point where the world was provided to me. That being said, there always remains a bit of intrigue on if they can pull this game back to where I enjoy it with my entire being again, rather than with a laundry list of asterisk points, trade offs, and bitter nostalgia. I do know when it comes to the forums itself, the primary reason I made an account was to give feedback on the Dark Knight rework back during the ShB media tour. It's been a few years since then, and my opinion of the game has only decreased since, but over those years we made a fantastic Dark Knight megathread that may or may not have actually influenced the current state of the job, truly one of the wonders of the NA Tank Roles board, in good and abominable ways. Nowadays, I really just want to gently encourage as many people who are so miserable with the game that it is impacting their overall mental state to take care of themselves. I'm legitimately concerned about things like MMO addiction and sunk cost fallacies. I think there are better games for coping in this disaster of a reality than with a game whose developers who can't be bothered to speak TO us, and not AT us.
  • If not:
    • What do you still enjoy about the game?
      
      https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...known-1718.png
      Joking aside, whenever someone asks me to log in and help them for old time's sake, I think that's fun.
      
      But, I don't think I have enjoyed the game...at all since 6.15, or even earlier. I don't really know, sorry. When I am subbed, it's just force of habit, or some days I just sit AFK in HW/SB/ShB areas and reminisce. There's no real desire there.
      
    • Why the frequent focus on negative aspects?
      
      I speak for myself, primarily, but I also speak for my old free company, my old linkshells, and my countless number of friends who have been absolutely fed up with how this game is right now. Yes, humans have a negativity bias, but over the last few years it's been filled with nothing but static disbands, despair over their gameplay expereince being destroyed, and fury when their complaints are blown off or even worse, marginalized and mischaracterized by people who couldn't be bothered to say anything but "game popular and good, please unsub if complain". If tanks were better, my tank friends probably might come back. If healers were better, my healer friends might come back. If exploration content was in EW, my friends list wouldn't be filled of grey OFFLINE and (Unable to Retrieve). And of course, I'd just be having a better experience for myself.
      
      • Is it just that there's nothing to say about the good parts?
        
        I've had good things to say. I've complimented the developers on their fight design pre-DSR many times. I've complimented the music, the lore (pre-EW), the PvP rework, the decision to adopt many mods into actual in-game systems and numerous amounts of other things. But none of that really matters to me when talking about FFXIV in it's totality, because they have shown no interest in fixing the main, foundational problem for me. Which is, the game is boring to play unless you are bleeding edge. And please note, I have no issue with "easy" or "hard" content. Stardew Valley is one of my favorite games, that's objectively a casual game, but it has plenty of skill expression and min/max potential if you WANT to do that. I do not care about how DIFFICULT a game is. I only care about how FUN and ENGAGING it is, and I'll do the difficulty slider myself. When there are 19 jobs in the game, and ONLY ONE OF THEM can be described as "difficult/high skill ceiling", that's not the game state I want. If the game was always like this post-ShB state, I could've made the choice to not get invested, and to not play the game. The game that I actually liked was ripped away from me.
        
      • Or is it something else?
        
        There is something else. I'm going to quote a post I made a long time ago, because they still resonate with me now, and if anything it's much stronger now. I had another one, where I talked about how people are more concerned with hurting other people and tearing down others than anything, but it seems to have been lost in a deleted thread...
        
        
        Quote:

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        Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

        I wouldn't be negative if I didn't start in mid-Heavensward and see what the developers were capable of, and how they were improving the gameplay each patch/expansion instead of regressing it.
        
        I wouldn't be negative if Square Enix hadn't deliberately ignored years of feedback for the West regarding community conflicts (BA), ping issues that makes jobs unplayable, or haphazard bandaids with overhauls to jobs or systems that no one asked for. (Housing/almost every rework since 4.1)
        
        I wouldn't be negative if there was more upfront transparency in how the game systems work, so I wouldn't be forced too ask around in discord servers and third party websites just to determine what substat tiering is, or what damage type basic attacks are in this game.
        
        I wouldn't be negative if my trust in Square Enix to deliver a compelling gameplay experience(I am playing a video game, after all) wasn't constantly being undermined by absolutely pathetic, braindead normal content, and excruciating savage (door bosses) and ultimate content with zero middle ground or due to the 2 minute burst windows, no room for skill expression outside of rote memorization. With an occasional unreasonable, and frankly, unhealthy grind layered in there somewhere. (Hunt mounts/Pternadon).
        
        I wouldn't be negative if the plot threads that I was a huge fan of in SB and ShB have essentially been written off or totally discarded in Endwalker lieu of void adventures that honestly, should involve Unukalhai, Cylva, and the role quest team on the First, and not the Scions. That is their world to save, and I think Uunukalhai and especially Cylva would do well with a true redemption arc to pull their world back from total destruction. I would've waited until like, 8.0 to see that pan out. Come in as the seasoned veteran and mentor to a new team trying to salvage a shard, in contrast to ARR - SB adventure turning into hero arc that we were used to. I always imagined of the day where I'd be storming the Emperor's throne room with Maxima and the Proletariat, forcing another confrontation with those dual bosses from Ghimlyt, but that room is just a side piece to an elevator that brings you to Anima. I will never get these moments, and it was my folly to even think like that.
        
        I wouldn't be negative if Square Enix's job philosophy did not become "Remove to Improve" and "literally destroy all the skill ceilings" for whatever reason. I played non-meta jobs at points in this games lifetime that have had more originality, more meaningful gameplay choices, and more opportunities to demonstrate class understanding. That is mostly removed now. PLDs, DRGs, and ASTs (again), get comfortable. You're the next jobs to be butchered.
        
        I wouldn't be negative if my preferred side-content, Exploration content, hadn't been removed come Endwalker, with some of those gameplay environments being entirely riddled with bots, something Square Enix also refuses to even try to mitigate by altering the reward structures or introducing methods into the game to stem the flow of the bot apocalypse that is underpinning the game, delegitimizing the economy and ruining Eureka in particular for newer players. The STF is worthless. Island Sanctuary is not battle content, does not allow me to experiment, and therefore I do not find it interesting or engaging even with the limited attention I give it.
        
        I wouldn't be negative if Endwalker's failure to expand on Shadowbringers gameplay and systems like how Stormblood tried to expand on Heavensward didn't happen, and instead extended and doubled down on things a lot of people disagreed with and added more jenga blocks to an already unstable tower. This is not refinement, this is regurgitation. This has lead to my entire old FC pretty much quitting the game, much of my CWLS going dark, and losing connections with people who I have played with, argued with, laughed with, for years, citing that they are no longer happy with the direction of the jobs, or the game itself. My most recent one said " I cannot watch them butcher PLD with the rework like they did with the others. That's not the game I signed up for. This game isn't for me anymore." Smart guy.
        
        Had Dark Knight not get absolutely lobotomized the way that it did, I probably would not find myself on this path of hating the game that has essentially been my home in a world and a life that is destroying itself day after day. Because I'd still be having fun at a fundamental level, instead of logging in and being absolutely dismayed at the state of the game currently, and of it's trajectory.
        
        People will not agree with me, and that's a good thing. They are able to take the game at face value, not integrate themselves too deeply, and enjoy it for what it is, whatever that may be, and not what it was. I cannot see what they see, I am incapable of it now. My memories of late Heavensward through late Stormblood are too bright. Seeing people enjoy FFXIV in it's current state is physically repulsive, and it disgusts me. It is not their fault, it is because I remember when I was also enjoying things, and when I trusted Square Enix to deliver me a compelling gameplay experience. But after years of my hopes being dashed, I can no longer bring myself to trust them. I do not hate CBIII, they do good work mostly, except for the people in the job design team. I do not like them after what they have done to the combat systems.
        
        For those who can remain blissful, I envy them, for I can very rarely harness true enjoyment from this game anymore.
        
        For those who are able to leave, or already have, I envy them. For I cannot. Sunk cost, mental hangups, the works. I put too much investment in trying to get Blood Weapon and Living Dead working properly and clearing content.
        
        I'm tired of seeing people tear each other apart over differing opinions. It doesn't matter. No one is going to change their mind, because people aren't wired to do that once they've been conditioned in their subjective, personal experiences. People are not that self-reflective on average. If someone tells me, "Well, I'm having fun, and so are millions of other people" I just don't get it, because I don't know millions of people. I just know me, and my friends who aren't here anymore. This is not a "wow im so much better than the sheeple" opinion. This is a "My perspective is outright irreconcilable to a sizable portion of people, and it probably works the other way around as well." opinion. "Get some perspective", real interesting hearing that from a forum that constantly refuses to engage in simple empathy for anyone but their own side and sling frequent one-liner gotchas designed to hurt others. "Screw the other side, they're my enemy, hope they are miserable." The lines in the sand have been drawn for a long time.
        
        Yes, I am disappointed in Endwalker.
        No, I don't think there's anything I can ever do about it.
        We can never go home.

        ---

        
        
        A final note. I don't think anyone sane wants to be angry and miserable, particularly over this game. Sometimes, deep passion for a hobby looks like that. We want to believe things will change, even though they won't. But I assure you, none of us want to be like this. So I'll end this with what I always say. If you aren't happy, please try to find something that will make you happy. This game cannot give back what it took from us. If you are happy, I'm jealous.
        

I don't dislike the game per se but I do have some major issues with it. I took a couple of months off from the forums and realistically didn't really play the game for about 5 months over the summer. I think there are bad actors on both sides for sure, but I think the overall message from more negative posters is that they want the game to just be better. I am in the camp that EW was kind of a let down after ShB both in story and gameplay which is why I took time off from it (that and it's been a phenomenal year for game releases). I am hopeful that with the dev team not focusing on the graphics overhaul and Yoshida talking about all of the battle content they want to do in DT that there will seemingly a lot of things to do in DT which I didn't feel like I had to do or even really wanted to do in EW. I am kind of excited to see if we get the jobs I think and want us to have in the next expansion and if we do then I imagine that will make me want to play through there as well.

Just as something to keep in mind, people will shoot for hyperbole a lot in their arguments about the game to overstress a point and get traction with their posts or threads. Most of the time if you weed through it you can find a decent point that is a good topic for discussion. That being said if you ignore the bomb throwing, there can be some good discussion here.

tl:dr its a really fun and entertaining casual experience. there are two sides of that coin though if something in a dungeon or raid fails and your first impression is to yell at sprouts or whoever caused it. if so then yes, you should quit. On the other hand though if something fails and you just laugh it off, you enjoy the experience. Just think if yoshi p responded on here with broken english, and followed through. those negative feedback would disappear overnight. Because getting yoshi p to listen and follow through would be like astronauts landing on mars, it would be a groundbreaking event of the century.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

(the best post i've read on these forums)

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I appreciate everyone who has been kind enough to answer my questions and help me understand their perspective a bit more, but I wanted to extend an extra special thanks your way. Your post is so detailed, so thoughtful, and so well-expressed. It was honestly moving to read. Thank you for taking the time to share so many of your thoughts and so much of yourself in such a critical yet wholesome way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

[LIST][*]Do you overall dislike the game?

• If so:
  • Why do you stick around in the game/forums?
    • Does something about it give you enough joy to be worth your time?
    • Is there something that gives you hope that things will get better, and thus you're not ready to leave just yet?
    • Or something else entirely?
      

---

• • • Not a frequent poster or outright negative but will weigh in anyway
      
      am like a fence sitter
      
      came into FF late in Shb and since then have mostly seen negative changes SMN was my sole DPS job and yeah well it's dead now. Sge came and i was like new healer . . . but then dissapointed to find it was just alternate SCH
      
      Don't have hope that things will get better.
      
      I suppose i just kind adjusted, lower playtime and shifted to other things, i suppose i still find the game relaxing so stick around
      
      do a lot more crafting and such
      
      
      
      Quote:

      ---

    • What do you still enjoy about the game?
    • Why the frequent focus on negative aspects?
      • Is it just that there's nothing to say about the good parts?
      • Or is it something else?

      ---