Stricter requirements for Mentors.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

I completely agree with this statement.

Players that have the mentor status and have no intention of helping should have it revoked permanently.

Ive seen mentors using battle materia in crafting gear, telling people that cure 1 is essential on WHM, ect ect.

Its unacceptable that these people are giving advice to new players.

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Isnt the battle materia in crafting gear purely for spiritbond gain? IIRC more materia increases your spiritbond gain regardless of what materia it is.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Isnt the battle materia in crafting gear purely for spiritbond gain? IIRC more materia increases your spiritbond gain regardless of what materia it is.

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Yes and it's often much cheaper than the DoH/DoL alternatives.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Isnt the battle materia in crafting gear purely for spiritbond gain? IIRC more materia increases your spiritbond gain regardless of what materia it is.

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Yes, it pretty much is lol. I learned that from a crafting friend.

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

Sounds more like a hardcore mentor than anything else.
I don't have to collect every recipe and cleared every gathering node to actually be able to answer sprouts questions like: "How to gather?" and "What are legendary nodes?"
The same applies to the rest. You're not promoting mentorship. You're promoting elitism.

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Do you know how many trade mentors do not know how to do expert crafting when asked?

How, and why, do these people even qualify for the status if they don't know how to play the game.

I think stricter requirements are the only solution to weed out the people that want the status just for the symbol next to their name.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

My argument is that somebody who does not participate in Endgame Activities is arguably, not suitable to be 'Mentoring' new players, and is most likely going to give out false information.

Battle Mentor:
1. Completion of all current Extreme Trials per patch basis. (Yes, you lose your crown until you complete the latest trial on extreme)

2. Completion of at least ONE current Raid Tier on Savage as of the X.1 Patch of an expansion. (Your previous crown will last until the release of the first raid in the expansion).

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That is not what a mentor is. The point of Novice Network is help new players understand aspects of the game, answer questions and offer guidance. None of this has anything to do with raiding. I'm sure if someone tracked all conversations in NN, a tiny fraction revolve around raiding.

It sounds like the OP just wants a special symbol for clearing raids and extreme trials. That's what mounts and titles are for. Being an end-game raider has nothing to do with Novice Network. Raiding is only a tiny portion of the game. Back when I raided, if I had questions - it was a matter of doing research or going on a discord that was focused on raiding. And if someone asks raid-specific questions like "what should my opener be for P8S" or something like that, they will likely just be directed to that discord anyway.

As for the crafting aspect of it - crafting every recipe in the game teaches you nothing. If you can make any single level 90 3-star recipe, you can make all of them. What a silly requirement to offer up. And is harvesting Ilmenite Ore any different from raw rutilated quartz? Is there some vastly different rotation between mining and botany? Again - what a silly requirement.

And I don't think the OP realizes that the entire NN would be vacated of mentors every time a patch drops since no one will have crafted every recipe, gathered every node and cleared the raid tier and extreme trial. However, some might say that's a benefit to NN...

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Do you know how many trade mentors do not know how to do expert crafting when asked?

How, and why, do these people even qualify for the status if they don't know how to play the game.

I think stricter requirements are the only solution to weed out the people that want the status just for the symbol next to their name.

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Expert crafting itself is very niche. So if a person doesn’t understand the reactionary and random mechanics of an expert craft, they are in no position to give any crafting advice? Can’t explain the difference between craftsmanship and control. Can’t explain durability vs progress. Nope. Because they aren’t at this top rung of a ladder that only a very small, niche part of the community gives an f about

The trade mentor requirements I could get behind, at least somewhat. Maybe exclude the expert recipes. Those battle mentor requirements though? Yikes. That's all I have to say.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

My argument is that somebody who does not participate in Endgame Activities is arguably, not suitable to be 'Mentoring' new players, and is most likely going to give out false information.

To become a mentor, and to help newer players grow into better players overall, you should at least have a clear understanding of the combat or crafting side of the game.

Some basic ideas below, to make becoming and keeping a mentor status more strict.

Trade Mentor:
1. Completion of all current Gathering Nodes and Crafting Recipes per patch release (Yes, that means Expert crafting and Timed nodes too!)


Battle Mentor:
1. Completion of all current Extreme Trials per patch basis. (Yes, you lose your crown until you complete the latest trial on extreme)

2. Completion of at least ONE current Raid Tier on Savage as of the X.1 Patch of an expansion. (Your previous crown will last until the release of the first raid in the expansion).

3. 100 PvP Victories in Crystaline Conflict

Full Mentor:
1. All of the Above.

2. No prior warnings/actions taken against their square enix account by support.

Having much stricter requirements will easily weed out the Mentors that only have the crown as a collectable item, and clean up things like Expert Roulette for newer players, having only mentors that actually know what they are doing, playing in those activities.

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In my experience the best teachers are not people who had top marks in school. They are people that had to struggle to make sense of things which led them to a greater understanding.

Expecting the top of the top is just being elitist with no result in terms of effective teaching/mentoring.

Now I say that as someone who has been in teaching for 29 years.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Isnt the battle materia in crafting gear purely for spiritbond gain? IIRC more materia increases your spiritbond gain regardless of what materia it is.

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Your statement is correct and actually makes Dixie double down on an awfully wrong post that they did not long ago and i told them why they were incorrect. And yet the audacity to say that factually wrong statement AGAIN. Piety and tenacity materia are the cheapest to buy, and you can effectively pentameld and grind the hell out of spiritbond that way.

But mentors btw right?

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Do you know how many trade mentors do not know how to do expert crafting when asked?

How, and why, do these people even qualify for the status if they don't know how to play the game.

I think stricter requirements are the only solution to weed out the people that want the status just for the symbol next to their name.

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Imagine requiring expert crafting full knowledge when expert is full rng .. yikes.

So for you, only content creators on youtube/twitch should be mentors? found the fanboy.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Do you know how many trade mentors do not know how to do expert crafting when asked?

How, and why, do these people even qualify for the status if they don't know how to play the game.

I think stricter requirements are the only solution to weed out the people that want the status just for the symbol next to their name.

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Because expert crafting is literally the hardest thing crafting has to offer, it's equivalent to Ultimate in the main game. It's also completely full of RNG so even if you do everything "perfect" you might not finish the craft.

Battle Mentors aren't expected to know Ultimate just like crafters aren't expected to know Expert.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Do you know how many trade mentors do not know how to do expert crafting when asked?

How, and why, do these people even qualify for the status if they don't know how to play the game.

I think stricter requirements are the only solution to weed out the people that want the status just for the symbol next to their name.

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Knowing how to play the game doesn't mean knowing everything about the game.
Your stricter requirements will not ensure mentors will know the answers to every question. Nothing can ensure that.

What is needed is to weed out the people who don't want to help and teach newbies. No in-game requirements can do that.

Those requirements are downright ridiculous. What is however needed for mentors is some sort of behaviour filtering and forceful removal if they are actively unhelpful. Savage raiding is done by the top 1% tryhards mostly and is not good representative of knowledge of the game as a whole; same for max level master recipies. Its not their knowledge of latest savage fight that matters, its their ability to quickly recognize whether the orbs random lvl 70 dungeon boss spawns are something to collect or to avoid and tell the party about it. Width of knowledge over the entire game rather than the useless 1% savage.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

Savage raiding is done by the top 1% tryhards

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Not sure where you got that 1% are tryhards from.

The clear rates foe E8S last expansion were documented in comparison to active level 90 characters.
And this is NON-Echo clears, so while the tier was CURRENT content.

Datacenters:
Mana: 22.3%
Gaia: 19.09%
Elemental: 17.92%
Aether 10.79%
Chaos: 10.61%
Primal: 10.33%
Light: 9.55%
Crystal 4.45%

Individual Servers:
https://i.postimg.cc/FzbJmcBc/image-...-114804308.png

Globally it was 13.15% of players completing the full tier, with 25% clearing E5, 21.51% clearing E6 and 19.03% clearing E7.

So if 25% of the playerbase cleared atleast 1 fight on savage last expansion, does that mean that a whole quarter of the playerbase are tryhards?

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

snip

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Your idea is unpopular. Leave it at that. Not everyone believes only the top % have something worth contributing to the community.

Let’s move along now

Sprout: "hey how do I color my armor?"

NewQualificationsMentor: "IN PHASE 3 YOU NEED TO GO TO YOUR MARKER AND KILL ONLY THE BLUE ADDS"



.. yup.. OP definitely understands what the mentor role was intended to be.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

And this is NON-Echo clears, so while the tier was CURRENT content.

Datacenters:
Mana: 22.3%
Gaia: 19.09%
Elemental: 17.92%
Aether 10.79%
Chaos: 10.61%
Primal: 10.33%
Light: 9.55%
Crystal 4.45%

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Okay, so if we go by those numbers and the requirements you would implement for battle mentor status, I have to ask: how many of those raiders also PVP?

And for full mentor: how many of those raiders who PVP also craft?

You have just shrunk your pool exponentially. Your requirements are ridiculous. Full stop.

To be fair, the current qualifications to become a mentor is definitely too low, especially a trade mentor.

I've seen plenty of 'trade mentors' who just utilize the novice network as a general chat channel and ended up clogging up the 100 mentor limits which is currently too low.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Oh and Dixie, before you start setting 'qualifications", Ill just draw your attention to the merits..or lack thereof..of CURRENT NA mentors who, when asked a question, responded with "Google it". If THAT is the calibre of your current mentors, then you got MUCH bigger problems.

THAT happened to a sprout three days ago. They were..unimpressed.

"Google it" is NOT an answer any new player should receive..so with all honesty, maybe what you might want to do beforehand is to make sure that the people who are mentors are suited to BE mentors in the first place?

Having done all of that doesnt mean they can teach, or will be willing to teach, or are suited in any way to help new players..

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Having given the answer, "Google it" I will stand by it.

I'm not going to go into a 12 page explanation of the exact lore reasons behind why good king moogle mog exists.

It's not a mentor's job to actually know everything.

It's not even a mentor's job to teach.

Let me quote you, exactly, the requirements for mentor.

Mentors are expected to:
-Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers.
-Be an exemplar for player etiquette.
-Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network, and answer their queries in the chat channel.

"NO" is an answer.


Lets be honest, somebody hurt you, deeply. What happened? What made you this way that you can't accept that sometimes folks won't have the perfect answer for you?

I've ended up in Trails and DR leveling where the mentor was useless and I helped the person more than the mentor.
Mentor means less currently because there is no way to reward the mentor for helping out personally.

Go do 2,000 roulettes.

It should get 2,000 comms from the "returner" or "new adventurer" in DR mentors.
That way you have to work for your reward, not just run content.

My raid group died mid-Shadowbringers, that doesn't make me less capable I just don't have the time to devote to raiding. That doesn't mean I don't understand the game or can't help people new to the game or unfamiliar with the changes.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

so removing the mount removes ANY need to grind.

will still have bad mentors, but the ones wanting to grind "efficiently" will be far fewer

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That's naive. People don't just wear the mentor status for the mount. I am not talking about the mount. I am talking about other grinds for relics and new content.

Let's say you have to farm a Stormblood dungeon for a relic. Regardless of if you are a mentor, if you are a veteran player that's done these grinds every expansion, you most likely want to get through that dungeon efficiently and farm it. But that sprout tank in your party might want to take it slow, because they are new and it's their first time.

I'm trying to say that veteran players know how everything works and just want to get through the content efficiently. They often forget what it's like to be a new player and become brash and self-confident in how good they are at a game. It's an easy trap to fall into and they don't always realize it.

My point is they could become a mentor to help by sharing their knowledge and to say they are a veteran player, but subconsciously have transformed into this overconfident, brash person that is trying to make new players gogogo in a dungeon, forgetting how they haven't completed the map, don't know what to expect and don't really know all the things the veteran player knows. Because the veteran player isn't putting themselves in the shoes of the new player enough and remembering what it was like.

It's just a trap I've seen from veterans in any game and eventually they have to look at their own attitude, and remember, what it was like to be new. It's just the veterans in this game often (but not always) wear an icon.

isn't pvp mentor different? or did they change that?

or am i just remembering completely wrong? :thonk:

There should be a written test when mentors apply for the certification where they are tested on job and dungeons/trials/raid mechanics.

Example: 1) What is the general opener for a 'insert job here' and what are the more niche openers and describe what kind of situations would you prefer the niche compared to general opener. 2) Describe the mechanics which you encounter in 'insert dungeon/trial/raid' here and explain how you would resolve such mechanics.

In addition to the written test, all would be mentors have to clear all current savage raids and extreme trials to prove that they are decent at the game (I'll exclude ultimates as that might narrow down the potential applicants too much)

As for trade mentors, it's a joke and should be completely removed.

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Originally Posted by DeNada

There should be a written test when mentors apply for the certification where they are tested on job and dungeons/trials/raid mechanics.

Example: 1) What is the general opener for a 'insert job here' and what are the more niche openers and describe what kind of situations would you prefer the niche compared to general opener.

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Why would most sprouts, under level 80, care about the proper opener for a savage tier level 90 fight, that sometimes contains abilities they don't even have?

Can you justify what this is on your list, as example question 1, when it would serve no use for actual sprouts?

Because if so sprout wants to engage in serious content, and you aren't able to provide the correct guidance, can you really call yourself a mentor? The current certification is a complete joke and any Tom, Dick and Harry can become one provided they play long enough without learning anything.

mentor
/ˈmɛntɔː/
noun
an experienced and trusted adviser.

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Originally Posted by DeNada

Because if so sprout wants to engage in serious content, and you aren't able to provide the correct guidance, can you really call yourself a mentor? The current certification is a complete joke and any Tom, Dick and Harry can become one provided they play long enough without learning anything.

mentor
/ˈmɛntɔː/
noun
an experienced and trusted adviser.

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no sprout is in savage.
Because you lose sprout status long before you can do current savage.
As for older savage, your opener doesn't work there due to level sync.
Hence your knowledge of lvl 90 opener is useless

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Originally Posted by DeNada

mentor
/ˈmɛntɔː/
noun
an experienced and trusted adviser.

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Yes, and so you should know enough to be able to help them with things that actually matter.
I give advice and provide examples of how not to get banned, and exemplar behavior in the novice network.

I'm doing my part.

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Originally Posted by DeNada

There should be a written test when mentors apply for the certification where they are tested on job and dungeons/trials/raid mechanics[...]

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A test for every jobs? I'm already cringing by just imagining what sort of tests SE designing for the green jobs.

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As for trade mentors, it's a joke and should be completely removed.

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This one here, I can agree. They're more than not are used as an easy card to re-access NN.

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Yes, and so you should know enough to be able to help them with things that actually matter.

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Crafting doesnt matter?

..............news to me

Battle Mentor:
1. Completion of all current Extreme Trials per patch basis. (Yes, you lose your crown until you complete the latest trial on extreme)
Mentor roulette doesn't contain current Extremes

2. Completion of at least ONE current Raid Tier on Savage as of the X.1 Patch of an expansion. (Your previous crown will last until the release of the first raid in the expansion).
Mentor roulette doesnt contain current raids

3. 100 PvP Victories in Crystaline Conflict
This wouldn't even belong with battle mentor it's pvp

Mentors are there to help people up to the end of the current expansion story. They are not for current Extremes, savage or Ultimate. Also NN would have no mentors for quite a while as they would be either trying to clear (or would have left the game after clears). You're also pretty deluded if you think all Mentors can even remember every fight in the game.

A "written test", is this a game or a job? Y'know what this reminds me of?

Jobs in the US that demand a Masters degree...for a job that pays $13.00 an hr

https://media.tenor.com/EFtwsVlZ2BMAAAAC/10-really.gif

Folks: lemme just remind you that mentors are VOLUNTEERS, they arent paid, they arent employees ( a fact that one sprout on Kujata had to be forcibly reminded of ), and they do this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Put rubbish like this in front of them and they will walk away "nuh uh I aint sitting a "written test" to do this.

Craft mentors have a very real and very valid purpose, saying that crafting "doesnt matter" or that " you arent a mentor unless you are a "leet raider" is a fast way to lose 95% of all current mentors, who, I remind you, do this out of generosity..

I dont care how many savages you have done, sprouts arent level 90, the vast majority DONT GIVE A RATS for savage or extreme, I repeat that it doesnt matter how many of those you have done, if when someone comes to you to ask for help and all you can do is flip them off and say "Just Google it" because "You are not there to hold their hand' then guess what.

You dont deserve to be a mentor.

As two organisations found out when they abused my goodwill, Im a volunteer, not an employee, and I can and will walk away anytime I want. As I seem to recall, one of those organisations had a conniption fit when they realised they had just honked off the only person who had been willing to come in and help out when they were short.

Thats what happens when they treated a volunteer like an unpaid employee. Mentors are volunteers giving of their own time. They can just as easily go to the Smith, decertify, you will never see them again.

DeNada: theres an old proverb from my days in D and D that comes to mind when I see this

When the Gods really want to punish you, what do they do? They give you your hearts desire. You might want to remember that in future.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Thus marking themselves as no one to approach for any help whatsoever.



If you have a teacher at a school, and you are told to go to them for help, you ask them and they flip you off with "go look it up'? Id go straight to the headmaster to tell them they have a teacher that refuses to teach.

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A mentor is not a teacher they're there to offer support and point people in the right direction. If you don't know the knowledge you show them where to find it. i.e a Maths teacher teaches you algebra and a support teacher helps you work out the algebra.
You couldn't go to the Headteacher and say the support teacher is not teaching me math.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Ive seen mentors using battle materia in crafting gear.

Its unacceptable that these people are giving advice to new players.

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So you're defo not a crafting mentor then.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

A mentor is not a teacher they are there to offer support and point people in the right direction. If you don't know the knowledge you show them where to find i

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i mean, you made the comparison

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

If you have a teacher at a school, and you are told to go to them for help, you ask them and they flip you off with "go look it up'? Id go straight to the headmaster to tell them they have a teacher that refuses to teach.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

A teacher that wont teach needs to go be a bartender.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

A "written test", is this a game or a job? Y'know what this reminds me of?

Jobs in the US that demand a Masters degree...for a job that pays $13.00 an hr

Folks: lemme just remind you that mentors are VOLUNTEERS, they arent paid, they arent employees ( a fact that one sprout on Kujata had to be forcibly reminded of ), and they do this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Put rubbish like this in front of them and they will walk away "nuh uh I aint sitting a "written test" to do this.

Craft mentors have a very real and very valid purpose, saying that crafting "doesnt matter" or that " you arent a mentor unless you are a "leet raider" is a fast way to lose 95% of all current mentors, who, I remind you, do this out of generosity..

I dont care how many savages you have done, sprouts arent level 90, the vast majority DONT GIVE A RATS for savage or extreme, I repeat that it doesnt matter how many of those you have done, if when someone comes to you to ask for help and all you can do is flip them off and say "Just Google it" because "You are not there to hold their hand' then guess what.

You dont deserve to be a mentor.

As two organisations found out when they abused my goodwill, Im a volunteer, not an employee, and I can and will walk away anytime I want. As I seem to recall, one of those organisations had a conniption fit when they realised they had just honked off the only person who had been willing to come in and help out when they were short.

Thats what happens when they treated a volunteer like an unpaid employee. Mentors are volunteers giving of their own time. They can just as easily go to the Smith, decertify, you will never see them again.

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Just because you aren't a paid employee doesn't mean you can shirk your duties when you sign up as a mentor.

In fact, you can simply not become one if you don't want to be saddled with the responsibilities of being one since no one is holding up a gun to your head to force you to become one and it's purely voluntary. If you do sign up as a mentor, it should be with the notion to be a guiding light to new players and be equipped with the knowledge, skill sets and patience to guide and assist them with any questions they may have. And a stringent enough test for mentor certification definitely aids in that process and weeds out players who are simply there for the crown symbol for prestige purposes.

If players are unwilling to take a test to become a mentor, they simply aren't cut out to be one and by restricting to mentorship status to only those who are deserving of one, it would fulfil the true purpose of mentorship and relegate the notion of mentors being a burger king crown and a source of ridicule as it is currently to the annals of history.

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Originally Posted by DeNada

And a stringent enough test for mentor certification definitely aids in that process and weeds out players who are simply there for the crown symbol for prestige purposes.

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Harder requirements make the crown symbol more prestigious, not less. Right now it's a burger king crown for people with 3 max level jobs. If you require savage, it becomes a savage crown. You think people wouldn't want to wear a savage crown like they use the flaming wyrm mount or their dyed savage gear?

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Harder requirements make the crown symbol more prestigious, not less. Right now it's a burger king crown for people with 3 max level jobs. If you require savage, it becomes a savage crown. You think people wouldn't want to wear a savage crown like they use the flaming wyrm mount or their dyed savage gear?

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Only thing SE needs to do is remove the rewards problem solved. People who want to help will do regardless if there's a reward or not.

Why is OP putting 100 CC wins as a requirement for PVE mentor when PVP mentor has its' own symbol?

Don't get me wrong, the rest is still highly questionable, but this one stood out to me.

At this point I don't want mentor something people see as an unlock/grindable anymore, I want people who actually are nice/helpful and have good community standings to be mentors.

Though I expect a lot from non-JP players.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Why is OP putting 100 CC wins as a requirement for PVE mentor when PVP mentor has its' own symbol?

Don't get me wrong, the rest is still highly questionable, but this one stood out to me.

At this point I don't want mentor something people see as an unlock/grindable anymore, I want people who actually are nice/helpful and have good community standings to be mentors.

Though I expect a lot from non-JP players.

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It’s probably a milestone they themselves have reached, thus holding everyone else to a standard they themselves are at. More like a flex than anything

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Originally Posted by DeNada

Because if so sprout wants to engage in serious content, and you aren't able to provide the correct guidance, can you really call yourself a mentor? The current certification is a complete joke and any Tom, Dick and Harry can become one provided they play long enough without learning anything.

mentor
/ˈmɛntɔː/
noun
an experienced and trusted adviser.

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Most sprouts who want to cut their teeth at serious content are in the ARR and HW Extreme fights, and wanting to do the Coils of Bahamut and Alexander raids. They aren't doing EW Savage raids and tbh, it just sounds out of touch with what sprouts are asking and need from other players.

Most sprouts want to know stuff like:
- When do they get a chocobo
- When do and how do they get flying mounts
- How Aethercurrents work
- Job basics - and I mean real basics like the core rotation at Lv20, 30, 40, 50, 60. Not Lv90. When to use certain abilities, how to collect mobs without having strays while tanking.
- How crafting works and how to make gil
- Stuff with their first relic weapon
- How often they should gear
- Job recommendations

Never have I heard a sprout ask for help with a high level rotation or savage content. If high end content comes into it, its usually about how hard those ARR Ex's are and which ones they should start with. Maybe some strategy stuff and whether people will run the trial with them.

Those are ridiculous requirements.

A more middle ground would be that wannabe mentors need to complete all older content synced with No echo because you can complete old content that requires you to do them unsynced and it will still count.

Also change the Mentor crown into a watering can to fit the theme of sprouts and remove the mentor mount reward because most mentors are only after that.

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Just because you aren't a paid employee doesn't mean you can shirk your duties when you sign up as a mentor.

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Did the word "volunteer" not resonate with you?

EMPLOYEES have duties, volunteers are there to contribute as they see fit, they have no duties, no obligations, no requirements. An EMPLOYEE is PAID, a volunteer is there out of goodwill, which can be retracted at any time for any reason they see fit.

DO NOT make the mistake of equating one for the other. I can right now go ingame and decertify, walk away permanently, no "two weeks notice", no "obligation to remain".

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And a stringent enough test for mentor certification definitely aids in that process and weeds out players who are simply there for the crown symbol for prestige purposes.

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So, they need a resume now?

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If players are unwilling to take a test to become a mentor, they simply aren't cut out to be one

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Put idiotic standards like this in place, and you may find out just how many are unwilling. I am way past "sitting mandatory examinations", I and others will be more than happy to refuse...all of a sudden you will find yourself with empty NN channels.