I would like to encourage everyone to keep providing the feedback YoshiP asked for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Also are we even a Machinist? We feel like a glorified gunner class with very little gadgets. I know the PvP kit really isn't feasible in PvE, but it is essentially what I think of when I think MCH: each of the gadgets do a bit of CC to make them stand out from one another and not just a Drill clone. Also I want that Bishop Turret.

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PvP kits now are how *most* jobs feel like they should operate. I would love it if they just built out PvP modes and gave each job just a smidge more of their PvE kits and I wouldn't feel the need to ever play PvE again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

SE knows exactly what's wrong with AST as the question was asked rather early on in Shb's life cycle iirc: fix our damn cards. They said "no" then and keep tacking on this seals system.

Well it ain't working and I'll complain until you revert some of them back. Even more so now! PvP was able to make 3 of them diverse, I'm sure you could do the same for PvE.


As for MCH? Heat Blast ping issues still exist. I haven't touched it yet since 6.1 but I don't think Queen's AI has been adjusted and it needs to. Why doesn't it target what we're attacking? Flamethrower isn't as useless as Undraw is, but it may as well be. GNB's PvP Limit Break can move while it's being "casted"/channeled can we get that here?

Also are we even a Machinist? We feel like a glorified gunner class with very little gadgets. I know the PvP kit really isn't feasible in PvE, but it is essentially what I think of when I think MCH: each of the gadgets do a bit of CC to make them stand out from one another and not just a Drill clone. Also I want that Bishop Turret.

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Honestly with the way things are going...expect having only 1 card left for draw now. It will give them a reason to remove redraw and at the same time probably.

For MCH, I played it a bit during SHB and it felt like an insult to what it used to be. I just found the experience very wanting, even the Queen wasn't very satisfying to use. I'm not versed enough to touch on the ping issues, but I have heard frustration from my static mate. Flamethrower was actually something I had to ask about recently because I used to see it during downtime, but now it's almost completely useless? Of course, these are just my opinions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

PvP kits now are how *most* jobs feel like they should operate. I would love it if they just built out PvP modes and gave each job just a smidge more of their PvE kits and I wouldn't feel the need to ever play PvE again.

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I honestly want to try the new PvP stuff but I refuse to login as a sign of protest. How different are they compared to before? I've only heard positive things about it really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roxus

I honestly want to try the new PvP stuff but I refuse to login as a sign of protest. How different are they compared to before? I've only heard positive things about it really.

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Like completely different jobs. Job gauges are gone. Every job has its own limit break and gauge that you build and spend independent of everyone else. Off the top of my head (and without having played it yet so apologies if there are any inaccuracies--I also haven't logged in yet, not out of protest but kind of existential disappointment), changes include:

* DRK now has HP-sacrifice abilities.
* GNB has junction-role abilities.
* AST has cards with actual abilities again.
* BLM builds elemental weakness stacks on enemies.
* WHM can turn players into plant imps and has Seraph Strike from Bozja.
* SMN has Bahamut/Phoenix as limit breaks.
* RDM can free-swap between a black magic and white magic toolset.
* MCH brought back Bishop Turret and has more of a "toolkit" crowd-control vibe.
* SCH has a bit more of a "chemist" vibe and dropped faeries, Seraph is now limit break.
* DNC has an AoE charm ability.
* BRD has an AoE silence ability.
* NIN can do a "Hide" to "Assassinate" combo and removed a lot of the elemental Ninjutsu junk.
* SAM just uses ST combo finishers and can then buff them into AoEs, also LB Zantetsuken is an insta-kill with the correct debuff applied beforehand.
* DRG has a limit break that literally removes them from the field for 5 seconds and then you can target where they will land.
* Some job has like an AoE hysteria ability, I'm 90% sure its RPR but it could be WAR.

Basically, rule of thumb is for every job:

* They cut away half of the less flavorful abilities (and boy do I miss so few of them)
* They removed the job gauge as a middle man and incorporated it into the remaining abilities with stuff like stacks or triggered effects.
* They added roughly one new flavorful move per job.
* New limit break for every job.

It's such an overhaul and so fresh and elegant and I really hope PvP is just being used as a testing ground for a total PvE overhaul because the difference in quality is just so massive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

Like completely different jobs. Job gauges are gone. Every job has its own limit break and gauge that you build and spend independent of everyone else. Off the top of my head (and without having played it yet so apologies if there are any inaccuracies--I also haven't logged in yet, not out of protest but kind of existential disappointment), changes include:

* DRK now has HP-sacrifice abilities.
* GNB has junction-role abilities.
* AST has cards with actual abilities again.
* BLM builds elemental weakness stacks on enemies.
* WHM can turn players into plant imps and has Seraph Strike from Bozja.
* SMN has Bahamut/Phoenix as limit breaks.
* RDM can free-swap between a black magic and white magic toolset.
* MCH brought back Bishop Turret and has more of a "toolkit" crowd-control vibe.
* SCH has a bit more of a "chemist" vibe and dropped faeries, Seraph is now limit break.
* DNC has an AoE charm ability.
* BRD has an AoE silence ability.
* NIN can do a "Hide" to "Assassinate" combo and removed a lot of the elemental Ninjutsu junk.
* SAM just uses ST combo finishers and can then buff them into AoEs, also LB Zantetsuken is an insta-kill with the correct debuff applied beforehand.
* DRG has a limit break that literally removes them from the field for 5 seconds and then you can target where they will land.
* Some job has like an AoE hysteria ability, I'm 90% sure its RPR but it could be WAR.

Basically, rule of thumb is for every job:

* They cut away half of the less flavorful abilities (and boy do I miss so few of them)
* They removed the job gauge as a middle man and incorporated it into the remaining abilities with stuff like stacks or triggered effects.
* They added roughly one new flavorful move per job.
* New limit break for every job.

It's such an overhaul and so fresh and elegant and I really hope PvP is just being used as a testing ground for a total PvE overhaul because the difference in quality is just so massive.

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Interesting. That sounds promising, as I always loved having CC involved in endgame content rather than....what we have now. Maybe we'll get our Identities back alongside some less scripted fights in the future. I always had a hope that when we finished the story arc from 1.0, that they would decide "Okay, that's enough handholding, let's do some interesting things with our systems" from 7.0 onwards.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

The devs do listen and I’m pretty sure they did with a idea or it’s just a coincidence. The devs are doing a great job on the game and made it a fun theme park experience. I hope they continue to grow it. When they do a good job they rarely hear it on the forums. A personal lesson I learned is to not just complain but provide feedback back to how you’d like to happen to a problem. If doesn’t matter if your idea has no likes or gets down voted. The devs might like the idea and use it.

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What are you on about? Popular Twitch streamers (who the devs have stated that they watch regularly) are constantly sucking the devs’ collective d**k. Almost every ffxiv player on twitter who do nothing but take screenshots of their characters with nipple mods lynch anyone who gives any valid criticism of the game.

The devs listen? Give me a break. Look at the state MNK was in for the entirety of SB and ShB up until 5.4. Look at BRDs begging for a crumb of job identity since the beginning of ShB. Look at MCHs with their ping issues. Look at Mr. Happy & Reddit asking Yoshi P about the ping issues and its interaction with animation lock and his response being “hmm sounds like packet loss lol.”

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roxus

Interesting. That sounds promising, as I always loved having CC involved in endgame content rather than....what we have now. Maybe we'll get our Identities back alongside some less scripted fights in the future. I always had a hope that when we finished the story arc from 1.0, that they would decide "Okay, that's enough handholding, let's do some interesting things with our systems" from 7.0 onwards.

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Here's a thought:

Come 7.0, everything in the Hydaelyn saga will be past content. The challenge of current content will not be there AND on top of it it would represent a slog for newer players to have to play through the whole story.

Some players have proposed some kind of "second starting point" for players to begin fresh in 7.0. Maybe this could be involved in that fresh start. All content going forward uses the PVP skills, all content going backward--well it wouldn't really matter how they keep it as long as it is optional.

Starting with these job kits would also solve another important problem which is ability bloat. Most jobs are already approaching "doneness" or have already started tacking on useless win-more abilities in levels 80-90. They can't keep adding to these kits, so maybe switching to PVP kits in 7.0 would be a way to avoid having to continuously add 10 levels of abilities on top of already bloated kits every expansion.

In a weird, screwed up way, as much as the PVE changes make me doubt the devs care about the game's longevity anymore, PVP makes me hope that perhaps they are simply setting things up so that they can completely abandon the old job designs in 7.0 to make way for something more dynamic and varied like what PVP hints at. Maybe PVP is the testing ground for a new paradigm, the "safe space" of meaningless side content that they can explore without creating too much player expectation, and then if it is well-received they can transition it to PVE.

That...is my hope anyway. For all of the complaints we have about the devs being lazy and not implementing X or Y needed change, they *did* overhaul not only the lighting but also the physical assets and trust AI for past dungeons. Perhaps the reason we aren't getting more Hroth and Viera hairs is that the models are due for an overhaul in the graphics update anyway and it would have been wasted effort. IDK what to think, really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roxus

Honestly with the way things are going...expect having only 1 card left for draw now. It will give them a reason to remove redraw and at the same time probably.

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Frankly, I'm waiting to see what they do to AST in 6.2. Either way I'm going to have a ball.

But seriously, if PvP can give back Spire and Ewer (limit break and mana regen respectively) and make it work there, I'm sure they can do something similar in PvE. We have the melee range split on the cards as is, give them 3 diverse options and let us have fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

Abbreviated.

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Yeah I think the new PvP actions are most definitely a test, they've mentioned something off hand like the side content that does well may be further looked into and such a long time ago. They drove themselves into that hole of "doneness" by homogenizing up to this point, so it's expected. All they can add is another line of damage because that is what their design limits them to. And it's unfortunate. I've had my monitor die on me mid fight and I can still execute the mechanics and my rotation pretty easily while switching to my backup. It's just so predictable.

I think it depends on how exactly they are updating the graphics, IMO. If they are just touching on our current engine, likely nothing is ever going to change. It's outdated. However, if we are going into what is essentially CD 2, I have high hopes they can remove so many of these supposed limitations they have claimed prevented much of the development process. Imagine the excitement of exploring what would essentially be a brand new game. Unlikely, but nice to think of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Abbreviated.

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I wholeheartedly agree. Systems they made obsolete need to start mattering again. I'm concerned that our future is auto battles and iPads at the rate we're going.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

I'm not sure how a large quantity of threads being made on the dps role forum could possibly overshadow healer threads. If anyone would want to complain about it, it'd be other DPS. But I don't see many NIN or MCH players coming into these threads and raising a stink about how their issues are being ignored.

That being said I think the main difference between healer feedback and samurai feedback in this case is that SAM players are pretty united in their feedback and what they want done, whereas healer feedback all kind of agrees that healer feels unfun and unsatisfying to play, every healer seems to have a completely different ideal about how to deal with that problem. Most Samurai players want is kaiten back and auto-crits removed, it's a lot easier to implement feedback when it's that clear and universal.

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As a Mch main, and I can only speak about myself, I stick to the threads that are general dps threads kinda like this one, and ones pertaining to mch/ranged physical. I havent leveled Sam or really played it. Why would I go into a thread and make comparisons to mch? Yes it does get kinda disheartening to see mostly only Sam threads, but for the most part its understandable. Sam had a key ability removed and some unwelcomed changes. Yes I understand what youre going through, MCH have had issues from the jump and the devs blatantly ignore them, going as far as to say they haven't heard any negative feedback about it for years. My husband is a healer main and I have heard all about how bad the changes are or have been in the past but Im not gonna go into a healer thread and take the conversation away from the healers to talk about DPS jobs, unless the thread is about changes overall.

Also it feels like the mch main players are fewer and farther between, which is understandable, so we'll typically have a lot of threads early when new stuff comes out and we get shafted again, but they tend to die down pretty quickly because we've been tilting at that windmill for years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

Not every DPS is the same. MCH problems still getting ignored after 4-5 years. Damage is too low, ping problems unfixed.

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in terms of mch with the ping issues (i don't get that since my internet/location is good thankfully) but it seems they are actively doubling down on that design.
giving more and more to do so you can't even double weave anymore because the GCD gets sped up like crazy, which can lead to easy GCD clipping at higher pings.

MCH is definitely in a really bad spot right now. It's definitely a motivation killer how there isn't really a good bridge between the players and the devs. This is something I have always wished to change. Let's continue to do our best.

That's why I started posting on the forums today. I disliked the changes to Ninja so strongly that I wanted to try to affect some change. Trick attack needs to be the Raid-wide damage buff. First, a complex series of button presses like that should have a big pay off. It should feel like the effort has purpose. Second, that rhythm was vital to the feel of the job, it was the one thing I made absolutely sure not to screw up because the party was relying on those windows. Putting the raid-wide damage boost on an ogcd which only comes up every 2 minutes feels anticlimactic and dull.

I'm not saying that it breaks the job. It just makes it less fun.

Hello again SE, revert the 6.1 changes.

I wholeheartedly agree with this forum post and the intention behind it.
Revert the 6.1 changes and start listening to the FF14 community.

The changes to samurai in this patch has actually made the whole experience of the patch worse for me, as melodramatic as that might be. I find myself less motivated to do any content outside of activities with my static out of obligation, and I'm not really looking forward to progging the ultimate as much as I was just a few weeks ago. 6.1 has been a great patch overall so far, and there should be a lot of things for me to love about it, the devs have actually added a lot of cool QoL stuff on top of the new expected content. And still I find myself not having fun.

I've been playing around with the other jobs, melee especially as that's what I have the most gear for, and it leaves me more confused than anything. The things that was given as the reason for changing samurai exists on other jobs too, I'd even go so far as to argue that some other jobs actually has it worse than samurai did pre-6.1. And yet samurai is the one that had to change. I wonder if I should give examples but I wouldn't want to potentially give ideas on how to ruin other jobs that people love.

As an aside I would like to see more clarity from the dev team as to why certain changes are made going forward in the future. I've personally found the reasons given and the extra elaboration for the samurai changes to be extremely vague and not really answer much of anything. And this isn't specifically a request about samurai either. There are often changes made to jobs that the community have to puzzle out why are made because very rarely are reasons given.

I've seen people say that the samurai players are making too much noise. That we are spamming the forums to have our job fixed. And to that I have two things to say; that it should show how passionately the feelings on these changes are, and that maybe if other jobs feel unheard about the issues they face that maybe they could try to muster up that kind of response too.

Sadly I've ended up cancelling my sub because of these changes. I've tried to keep playing either on a different class or focusing on different content but the lack of fun on SAM keeps eating away at my enjoyment. After spending hundreds of hours on MNK/NIN through multiple characters I finally gave SAM a shot and got addicted to the gameplay. It took a while to click with it but now I can't go back. It's just not fun, and the rest of the game suffers because of it. Interestingly enough I took a similar break from the game after the 5.4 rework of MNK that removed Greased Lightning stacks. There's just something about making classes easier that kills my mood.

Hopefully they revert or a future re-work brings back the soul of the class. At least I've got Ghost of Tsushima to help scratch that Samurai itch in the meantime.

I actually only play SAM i have said that many times on the forums but I do have a question...

What exactly happened to the other classes? Only recently have I heard that MNK had these oversimplifications making MNK playrate drop? And I see MCH posts. I see healer changes like WHM mains telling us this is what you get same treatment you should have voiced converns for us as well, well idk what that means I just don't... i joined so late. DRK I don't know what happened and the recent Ninja posts as well as SMN rework?

I feel like a history lesson is needed and idk where to start honestly or what err idk guide video or whatever. I just don't like playing any other class and I haven't played long enough to know what the changes were. I even only just typed WHM idk what happened to say AST if something did happen I genuinely have no idea... and I could i guess read a 1000 posts somewhere else, but is it okey to ask it here? and then answering with " this is what the hell happened " while at the same time it being a form of " Feedback " ?

Edit: if this is a bad idea just ignore it btw, i was just genuinely curious, i have no frame of reference on where to start... though I also can't help voice concerns for something I just don't know or understand

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

I actually only play SAM i have said that many times on the forums but I do have a question...

What exactly happened to the other classes? Only recently have I heard that MNK had these oversimplifications making MNK playrate drop? And I see MCH posts. I see healer changes like WHM mains telling us this is what you get same treatment you should have voiced converns for us as well, well idk what that means I just don't... i joined so late. DRK I don't know what happened and the recent Ninja posts as well as SMN rework?

I feel like a history lesson is needed and idk where to start honestly or what err idk guide video or whatever. I just don't like playing any other class and I haven't played long enough to know what the changes were. I even only just typed WHM idk what happened to say AST if something did happen I genuinely have no idea... and I could i guess read a 1000 posts somewhere else, but is it okey to ask it here? and then answering with " this is what the hell happened " while at the same time it being a form of " Feedback " ?

Edit: if this is a bad idea just ignore it btw, i was just genuinely curious, i have no frame of reference on where to start... though I also can't help voice concerns for something I just don't know or understand

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The only one I know about is MCH, which generally seems to be that they have less Support than the other two, making them the SAM/BLM of the Ranged Phys DPS, but they don't have the DPS to make up for their lack of Support. And that they are heavily harmed by ping due to Heat Blast spam's very fast nature.

Is what I can interpret. It could be wrong, but that's my impression of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

I actually only play SAM i have said that many times on the forums but I do have a question...

What exactly happened to the other classes? Only recently have I heard that MNK had these oversimplifications making MNK playrate drop? And I see MCH posts. I see healer changes like WHM mains telling us this is what you get same treatment you should have voiced converns for us as well, well idk what that means I just don't... i joined so late. DRK I don't know what happened and the recent Ninja posts as well as SMN rework?

I feel like a history lesson is needed and idk where to start honestly or what err idk guide video or whatever. I just don't like playing any other class and I haven't played long enough to know what the changes were. I even only just typed WHM idk what happened to say AST if something did happen I genuinely have no idea... and I could i guess read a 1000 posts somewhere else, but is it okey to ask it here? and then answering with " this is what the hell happened " while at the same time it being a form of " Feedback " ?

Edit: if this is a bad idea just ignore it btw, i was just genuinely curious, i have no frame of reference on where to start... though I also can't help voice concerns for something I just don't know or understand

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The short answer is that many of the jobs had a lot more to do in previous expansions.

The longer answer would be pointing out the actual individual changes and removals that have happened to each job over the years. But as someone who only started playing during Stormblood, I'm only qualified to speak of what happened from there on.

Enmity (or aggro) used to be something actively managed by Tanks and certain jobs even had abilities to help with that *cough NIN*....

Healers had a more involved dps rotation (it wasn't much) like for instance, SCH still had a lot of spells from the base dps class of Arcanist.

Tanks used to have a tank stance and a dps stance and they would dance between them in fights to maintain damage and aggro, even having 2 separate 1-2-3 combos, one for aggro and one for damage/sustain/debuff depending on the job.

Dps... well, melee had more of a focus on positionals (particularly MNK) and SAM positionals were mostly tied to kenki generation rather than damage.

That's just stuff I can recall off the top.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

Abbreviated

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I'll only answer for the Job I played.

Smn used to have more of a focus on managing your pets and building up to Bahamut and Phoenix rather than having them be on timers. Was old smn clunky? Yes. Pets had some jank AI. But imagine our surprise when we asked for a fix to the job and we got a lobotomy. We no longer commanded our pets to take actions, they were now just kinda animations that happened to ghost if your target died. Our DoT's interacted with fester and had its cooldown refreshed upon entering our trance phase before we summoned our demi's. There was a fair amount more nuance to the job and admittedly alot of that *was* from the pet AI it was just as simple a job as any other. But to find out that it got reduced to recolored ruin spam in 6.0 was crazy. We wanted the pet AI to be fixed. We didn't ask for it to get gutted like this. Alot of us are even okay with the new direction but the absolutely static rotation with no way to optimize is a frustration.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dxzstar

I'll only answer for the Job I played.

Smn used to have more of a focus on managing your pets and building up to Bahamut and Phoenix rather than having them be on timers. Was old smn clunky? Yes. Pets had some jank AI. But imagine our surprise when we asked for a fix to the job and we got a lobotomy. We no longer commanded our pets to take actions, they were now just kinda animations that happened to ghost if your target died. Our DoT's interacted with fester and had its cooldown refreshed upon entering our trance phase before we summoned our demi's. There was a fair amount more nuance to the job and admittedly alot of that *was* from the pet AI it was just as simple a job as any other. But to find out that it got reduced to recolored ruin spam in 6.0 was crazy. We wanted the pet AI to be fixed. We didn't ask for it to get gutted like this. Alot of us are even okay with the new direction but the absolutely static rotation with no way to optimize is a frustration.

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I dabbled in SMN back then, but never to a point where I knew what I was doing. Trance was interesting. Bahamut was neat. Titan-egi was capable of tanking a majority of low end content and as well as swapping in high end content for a brief bit I heard.

I will say I like the direction SMN is going, but I feel like they should've done something more at 90 with the kit they introduced in 6.0 rather than it just being a slightly stronger reskin of the new level 50.

As for jobs I personally played or mained, I was primarily DRK and SAM. I also leveled the other tanks and SCH/SMN in those days for flexibility on roles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xAFROx

The short answer is that many of the jobs had a lot more to do in previous expansions.

The longer answer would be pointing out the actual individual changes and removals that have happened to each job over the years. But as someone who only started playing during Stormblood, I'm only qualified to speak of what happened from there on.

Enmity (or aggro) used to be something actively managed by Tanks and certain jobs even had abilities to help with that *cough NIN*....

Healers had a more involved dps rotation (it wasn't much) like for instance, SCH still had a lot of spells from the base dps class of Arcanist.

Tanks used to have a tank stance and a dps stance and they would dance between them in fights to maintain damage and aggro, even having 2 separate 1-2-3 combos, one for aggro and one for damage/sustain/debuff depending on the job.

Dps... well, melee had more of a focus on positionals (particularly MNK) and SAM positionals were mostly tied to kenki generation rather than damage.

That's just stuff I can recall off the top.

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This shit here is why I made the post.

The problem at hand isn't "SE made a blunder".

Let's be real. This is 100% intended. SE wants to dumb down every class as much as possible. They want to absolutely make everything brainless for the most casual players. God forbid there's even a tiny blip of complexity ANYWHERE in the game in the path of the casuals. They must all go.

"We care about your feedback"? If they care so much about it, why the hell didn't they gather them BEFORE they make these changes? Where even the hell this shit even came from? No one asked for it. Everyone was pissed of the INSTANT kaiten removal was brought up. Oh no. "Feedback" is just damage control.

Some players then actually go and test things out and pointing out all the issues and saying "best way to fix it is to just revert everything".

Guess what happens next? Of course they not going to revert it. Dumbing down classes is THE directive. "Handling your feedback" is damage control. They will spin bullshit after bullshit from the forum "feedback" and give you watered down garbage. Sounds familiar?

Giving any other feedback is just counter productive. It's like negotiating with terrorist. Just revert it. No one likes it. End of discussion.

Edit- TBF, they are not doing that maliciously. It's not like they think "let's trash the game and who cares about the players". It's just the way the company functions. They have objectives and goals top down from the senior management and after damage is done, the team have to try pick up the pieces. The directive isn't "make the game dumb". It's "make the game more accessible to more players" which is just mostly casuals. This is why giving them room to spin doesn't help. The only way is to tell them to go back to the management and tell them to shove it or else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep

Let's be real. This is 100% intended. SE wants to dumb down every class as much as possible. They want to absolutely make everything brainless for the most casual players. God forbid there's even a tiny blip of complexity ANYWHERE in the game in the path of the casuals. They must all go.

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Can confirm. I tried SAM without even bothering with Shinten as well because that is more button and APM bloat. More opportunities to mess up, best not bother with it.

Perfectly Lobotomized, just as SE seems to intend.

Why yes, I do have a high Sodium Chloride level.

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Originally Posted by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep

Abbreviated.

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I absolutely agree. And I want more people to speak up. Even if they tried once before, or think it's pointless, if they suddenly decide to start listening and you stop, they won't know what to fix and change something random again. Sadly negotiating is what people are starting to get used to because they feel their feedback is ignored. JP feels this way as well.

Oh also it would help if our community managers were more involved with the community. I think it's unacceptable how silent they are at times. Acknowledgement would be a huge load off of people's shoulders, we don't have to be friends or anything. Just you know, let us know you're all still here reading what people are saying.

NIN
+1 for reverting change, it was good in 6.08, mug having too many properties now and gameplay less fun now (if the team prefers adding 10% personal buff with the 5% team buff, I don't mind), burst window alignment is not necessary for most of the content in the game, so no reason to change 6.08 ninja state
SAM
+1 for reverting change, it was good in 6.08, kaiten was fun to use. Removing it for reducing variance is a bad solution. If the team wants to reduce variance, juste make 100% critical hit..
DRG
+1 for reverting change about jump lock animation. Although I guess there are some people who asked that change, I don't like it, it was part of the identity of the dragon for me to use jumps at the good moment

Bump due to thread still be extremely relevant.

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Originally Posted by DreadfullyAwful

Bump due to thread still be extremely relevant.

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It most certainly is. Thanks for the bump.

Bump.

I still would like to hope that SAM is reverted and be given proper adjustments in line with keeping the kit intact.

Bring back Seigan, make it transform over Shinten for proper mitigation with Third Eye.
Bring back Kaiten, do whatever balancing changes it needs to fit with the new design, I just want my swish swish animation that flows through the gcd roll back, shinten stab is awkward and janky.
Change Ogi Namikiri to appear on the Ikishoten button when used.
Let Ikishoten change Shinten and Kyuten into Senei and Guren when used.
Make Tenka Goken a cone again.
Make a dedicated button for Meditation stack skills that act similarly to the iaijutsu button and expand on the Meditation resource as a whole.

Can even bring back Merciful Eyes if they want to with changes like this.

Potencies can be adjusted as needed, just so long as the damage we deal is focused where it always should have been, with the big finisher iaijutsu skills.

A compromise on keeping the number of actions available while cleaning up the amount of buttons.

Bump for this thread.

First time poster to the forums.

Doing so has been something I really didn't want to do. But I wanted to voice my opinion on this.

I feel feel that the current changes have taken away the feel and fun of the class for me.
The class as of 6.08 felt so good to be playing.
Then after they did these changes to the skills... the class has felt empty and has lost the rewarding feeling it once had to play.

I truly hope that these will be fixed and reverted...
but from what I have seen... I have little hope as it appears the developers aren't listening to the outcry at all.

It saddens me as I was looking for a game that had such a class in it for a long time until I stumbled upon it in FFXIV. I truly enjoyed learning how the class worked and every time I got better at it and more used to it. it felt so rewarding...
Yet now... it just feels so unrewarding... I miss the way it felt before and played before...
Its just missing that feeling that it had before...

I hope the developers will listen... and take the outcries to heart and revert us back to how we were... they had hit such a sweet spot with the class... and then ruined it so quickly...

That is just my two-sad-cents...
Hoping that being someone whom doesn't post on the forums... speaking out may mean something...
We shall have to see...

Thank you.

My pleas:

- Change your fight philosophy to be less formulaic, because this impacts directly into the jobs' kits, especially healers' healing actions and the overall importance of DPSers to use their personal utilities (interrupt, cleanse, etc)

- Destroy 2 minute cycle alignments, it just makes everything so homogenous...

- For DNC, my main job: (given the above point) Instead of Technical Step party buff window, let Standard Step keep its buff across multiple people at the same time. Making Closed Position work like Kardia, I would be able to weave it before the next SS and spread 60s buffs between other party members - the challenge would be to optimize on how many people you could keep your SS buff rolling at once, and TS would be just a big personal buff and to your current dance partner.

Alright, here's my feedback. The SAM changes feel unnecessary and done for nothing more than further simplification. Tenka didn't need to be a circular AoE. Aside from the fact that the range feels tiny, the potency is crap, and the positioning throws you into the middle of damage, the animation just doesn't work. It doesn't, it makes no sense. Why are there slices coming out of my butt from frontal swipe? It's not even as satisfying to do. The loss of kaiten turns the meter into mindless shinten dump and hurts our parry even more. I know we no longer have a counter, but now we don't even get free charge for kaiten. Anyhow, you guys have explained the technicalities better than I ever could so let me move to the feel and flow of the job.

It might sound ridiculous, but I mean this from the bottom of my heart: THE FLOW SUCKS.

The feeling of buildup is gone, the anticipation for the FAT NUT giga damage one would slam out feels so flat now. Numbers aside, the crescendo of pressure and readiness when coming to the end of the combo, spinning your sword, and readying Setsugekka is dead. Now it's a crit every time too? A pitiful crit, at that. Not even the satisfaction from critical hit remains. Why even have a cast bar at this point? The damage doesn't seem that much crazier than other skills.

I wasn't sure how I felt about SAM in 6.0, to this day I miss things like our execution and counter, but I can tell you I was having fun. It worked well, the Namikiris felt like having a shotgun. Juicy, satisfying, ah. Just go back, please. Reverting can't be that hard, just copy paste data.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renascent

All valid point, to be honest i'm sure kaiten was annoying to figure out for balancing especially with the auto crit change, but it felt like the lazy way out and just ruin the job for us so @#%& that.

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While I'm at it, this has been the sentiment I've gotten for a while now. Jobs with pets? Lol take them out! Pets are hard to balance! Crits might inconvenience design somehow? Let's not figure it out, just simplify! Simplify always, never more depth, never more complexity, never more richness. It's a real shame. When Yoshi-P said the battle designers wanted no more pet jobs, I cringed. And now look at SMN. Look at MCH, their turret/robot's a joke, and of course, all the potential DRK had with their clone is completely wasted. It's a visible DoT.