Maybe we should not have new jobs in 7.0

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

This already should have/could have been addressed when Dancer was added.

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If Dancer was a melee dps class sure, but it isn't. I'm holding out for another scout like job like Assassin, or some other kind of Dervish.

The numbers and diversity are enough. It's better if they just focus on each class to make them fun/engaging in their own ways. And definitely shouldn't feel clunky. That's all for me.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

NIN needs a Job to share gear with, it's the only Job currently that doesn't share it with anyone.

Considering how NIN ain't doing all that well and how it's the most unpopular Job currently ( as far as I know? ) it becomes even dumber.
I mean was NIN supposed to pay a '' no gear share '' tax too because of Trick Attack?
Well that's hardly relevant atm, especially considering that you're incentivized to level and play multiple Jobs it kinda sucks.

Every Job should share it with at least one other Job imo.

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I wish they would just merge Aiming into Scouting... the "scouting" word can infer both melee or ranged, so you would solve this issue without having to add a new job - just - for that. And on top of it, Dancer players would get to enjoy Scouting glams, which feels much more appropriate for them rather than the aiming ones.

But then, since the dps role slot (ranged physical, melee, ranged magical) isn't defined by the armor type, they would still need something for ranged phys and something for ranged magical to balance the roster. I'd say that - after - 7.0 they would hold new jobs for a while to re-evaluate the old ones, especially because by 8.0 some job designs will probably hit a wall, just like happened with monk or summoner.

They will never hit a job wall, and new red DPS sells subscriptions. Several jobs at 90 didn't really change that much aside from previous skill upgrades and a new button or two, versus some got better fills in their rotation such as Black Mage. Short of job rehauls, they can retire more old skills, or start to upgrade them at 93+ like EW does. Summoner they always like to shuffle the deck, now it's almost like Bard as a caster.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I wish they would just merge Aiming into Scouting... the "scouting" word can infer both melee or ranged, so you would solve this issue without having to add a new job - just - for that. And on top of it, Dancer players would get to enjoy Scouting glams, which feels much more appropriate for them rather than the aiming ones.

But then, since the dps role slot (ranged physical, melee, ranged magical) isn't defined by the armor type, they would still need something for ranged phys and something for ranged magical to balance the roster. I'd say that - after - 7.0 they would hold new jobs for a while to re-evaluate the old ones, especially because by 8.0 some job designs will probably hit a wall, just like happened with monk or summoner.

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Nope. 5% full-party buff is tank, healer, melee, ranged, magical dps. You can't break that any further, this encourages raid groups to have a proper composition, compared to end of HW where bringing magical DPS was actually not the most optimal raid comp over double ranged.

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Originally Posted by Lieri

The numbers and diversity are enough. It's better if they just focus on each class to make them fun/engaging in their own ways. And definitely shouldn't feel clunky. That's all for me.

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You don't think they can walk and chew gum at the same time?

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Originally Posted by technole

They will never hit a job wall, and new red DPS sells subscriptions. Several jobs at 90 didn't really change that much aside from previous skill upgrades and a new button or two, versus some got better fills in their rotation such as Black Mage. Short of job rehauls, they can retire more old skills, or start to upgrade them at 93+ like EW does. Summoner they always like to shuffle the deck, now it's almost like Bard as a caster.




Nope. 5% full-party buff is tank, healer, melee, ranged, magical dps. You can't break that any further, this encourages raid groups to have a proper composition, compared to end of HW where bringing magical DPS was actually not the most optimal raid comp over double ranged.

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I didn't suggest that?

What I said is that the composition has nothing to do with how the armor types are grouped, hence merging Aiming into Scouting wouldn't change the fact that ninja is still filling the melee slot and the other 3 still fill the ranged slot.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I wish they would just merge Aiming into Scouting... the "scouting" word can infer both melee or ranged, so you would solve this issue without having to add a new job - just - for that. And on top of it, Dancer players would get to enjoy Scouting glams, which feels much more appropriate for them rather than the aiming ones.

But then, since the dps role slot (ranged physical, melee, ranged magical) isn't defined by the armor type, they would still need something for ranged phys and something for ranged magical to balance the roster. I'd say that - after - 7.0 they would hold new jobs for a while to re-evaluate the old ones, especially because by 8.0 some job designs will probably hit a wall, just like happened with monk or summoner.

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Aiming is just odd for DNC to begin with imo and I think Striking is odd for SAM too.
I think a lot of people get way too hung up on the names.

Just my opinion tho but I actually think DNC would've been more interesting as a melee.
I think the idea of an upclose bladed dancer is more interesting than the magic chakras.

I'd never bet 100% against another melee, but I strongly doubt the next Job will be one.

I think the chance is always 1% bare minimum, even right after an expansion where we got Reaper.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

This already should have/could have been addressed when Dancer was added.

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Luckily they kept NIN the only Job in scouting gear so its gear could be calibrated around being a melee and not being a melee sharing a Job with a ranged attacker who shouldn't get the same stat spread.

Personally I kinda want a Scouting ranged because it'd be a lot more different for NIN, if I play something else I like it to be very different.
And I really want a Sniper Job, I think it'd fit '' Scouting '' too.

Something needs to be done tho either way, I don't think that NIN should be the only Job in the game that doesn't share gear with another.

I'm hoping they go for a Spellblade. Before anybody tells me that "they're just RDM", it's the opposite of RDM. They use their spells to power up their melee attacks and have few ranged attacks. Imagine their combos being attacks where they stay on the enemy, casting both spells and swordplay at the same time as part of their combos, sorta like a continuation thing. Long range attacks could be Wind Blade variants, AoE being -aga variants. Their big gauge combo basically being Bio Blade, then Holy Blade, then finally Flare Blade. Their single target LB3? Ultima Blade.

Before they even think of adding a new job, they need to do a complete rework of the healer role. All four jobs need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Before they even think of adding a new job, they need to do a complete rework of the healer role. All four jobs need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

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On what grounds are you claiming none of them function in their present role?

Healers are fine tho outside of having a very boring dps rotation, I think they need help there.
And also tank healing needs a nerf.

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Originally Posted by Selvokaz

On what grounds are you claiming none of them function in their present role?

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The combat system, encounter designs, and role balance (tank's sustain) leads to healers being a subpar dps job with a bloated healing kit and a mindless dps rotation.

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

People would be fine with no new jobs and other areas having content cut If they could see where the resources went which as we seen in shb and ew, is not the case. So stuff is being cut but nothing replacing it.

At the very least, they could do with a shift in job design philosphy away from braindead simplification and homogenisation

The problem isn't lack of resources to design jobs to be fun, its lack of care for anything thats not a caster or melee dps.

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See, I hope we won't go this way to suggest that they don't care of anything else other than melee and caster though I totally understand your point. I believe they do care but we just progress in some place that makes it feel more bloat and clunky rather than fun.

For example, I agree to one post that suggest DRK is an OGCD eccentric. Unfortunately they might just go a little bit too far. Now it's just more OGCD, some were unnecessary. Hence the bloat. On the other hand, we see positive result on class like BLM that actually even more fun when you can instant cast while introduce an enhance fire 1/Blizzard 1 to round the section of MP tick and reset astral fire. We just need to continue to provide them constructive criticism and patience with them.

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Originally Posted by MisterNublet

Before they even think of adding a new job, they need to do a complete rework of the healer role. All four jobs need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

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The only healer that needs a rework right now is SCH.

WHM just needs QoL on MP usage and on lilies (they could use an instant Lily creating oGCD), AST needs to drop a bit of button bloat, and SGE just came out and is fine in general.

SCH has quite a bit of antiquated systems attached to it. AF in general should probably be dropped in favor of everything going to the Fey gauge for a better management system (while giving the gauge an actual use), Fey Union could probably be changed to just focus the fairy's heals onto a single target (while being buffed a bit), Dissipation should be the gauge dump move without removing the fairy, and the fairy should probably permanently become Seraph at 80.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm hoping they go for a Spellblade. Before anybody tells me that "they're just RDM", it's the opposite of RDM. They use their spells to power up their melee attacks and have few ranged attacks. Imagine their combos being attacks where they stay on the enemy, casting both spells and swordplay at the same time as part of their combos, sorta like a continuation thing. Long range attacks could be Wind Blade variants, AoE being -aga variants. Their big gauge combo basically being Bio Blade, then Holy Blade, then finally Flare Blade. Their single target LB3? Ultima Blade.

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I believe this spell blade continuation combo may be fit in regular melee rotation: slower enhance melee (2.5sec) +continuation. Though now we're having another OGCD to press that may bloat the whole rotation.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I don't think that NIN should be the only Job in the game that doesn't share gear with another.

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But it makes me feel special.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Instead of focusing on jobs SE needs to work URGENTLY in how content at max level its being played.

Since level 90 I have been doing nothing but doing pre ARR/HW content because that's what everyone does according to roulettes , level syncs sucks it makes me don't even play this game knowing I'll have to deal with CT for 29837498237432984 time, seeing myself pressing 1-2-3 for countless hours isn't fun and it makes people quit or burn out very quick.

This game urgently needs to be looked around open world/mobs/rewards/drops/difficulty/etc, they solely focus 95% on MSQ which at this point could be just be a 2 hours film in YT.

Learn from Genshin,Monster Hunter even other dead's MMO like RO.

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If I wanted an open world MMO I'd go back to Guild Wars. I like msq and want it to stay as it is.

I would be ok with that, maybe add a couple of new jobs like a DoT-based magic dps and that's it.
The reality is that at some point, there's going to be so many jobs it's going to be unsustainable.

No. This thread is honestly bonkers. Do you people hate content? New classes are a STAPLE is MMO expansions. Not introducing new jobs in future expansions would MASSIVELY reduce hype and excitement for me and many many others. Please stop asking for this. Please. Thank you

For me, I would love for 7.0 to just be a massive TLC expansion pack. Add a few new interconnected zones, make a story utilizing both the new and old zones, but focus on the back end like the jumping physics engine.

Eventually, I would like to be able to go from, say, Ul'dah to Kugane entirely on foot/swimming (no airship/ferry teleports).

Fix the bloody engine. Forget content. Just turn this game into a competent 2022 mmo.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

For me, I would love for 7.0 to just be a massive TLC expansion pack. Add a few new interconnected zones, make a story utilizing both the new and old zones, but focus on the back end like the jumping physics engine.

Eventually, I would like to be able to go from, say, Ul'dah to Kugane entirely on foot/swimming (no airship/ferry teleports).

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I'd love this too, especially if they could somehow (by miracle) make FFXVI's godlike graphics engine and FFXIV's aging engine kiss. That's a lot of work to do, though. Probably. I'm an idiot.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

No. This thread is honestly bonkers. Do you people hate content? New classes are a STAPLE is MMO expansions. Not introducing new jobs in future expansions would MASSIVELY reduce hype and excitement for me and many many others. Please stop asking for this. Please. Thank you

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First of all, I do not think majority of people here hate content. Regardless of classes, I believe FFXIV capable of pulling it's own weight just fine. For the most part, we have contents that fit more than just enough players from casual and all the way ultimate.

This trend should be able to continue. This thread primarily discuss on new job(s)/rework job(s) in general.

From my perspective, ffxiv capable of hype on it's own regardless of new jobs or not

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

No. This thread is honestly bonkers. Do you people hate content? New classes are a STAPLE is MMO expansions. Not introducing new jobs in future expansions would MASSIVELY reduce hype and excitement for me and many many others. Please stop asking for this. Please. Thank you

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We only really have 4+1 classes anyway, just with 19 different flavours.

I'm pretty much fine with the formula, but given that it is what it is, new jobs don't massively excite me anymore. Also I've played plenty of MMO's that don't add new classes every expansion.

it'd be cool if they introduced alternate jobstones for certain jobs. by this i mean add something that effectively reskins a job around another while retaining its functionality. there are a lot of ff jobs that could be added to xiv, but a lot of them fill the same kind of functional or aesthetic niche warrior (pirate, viking, berserker i guess) dark knight (SOLDIER, rune knight), ninja (thief, corsair, gambler), geomancer (seems like a far eastern version of white mage). as like a side thing, not like as a replacement for actual jobs. i look forward immensely to the new gameplay styles they can come up with. especially since they tend to tie at least one job's lore into the setting of the expansion. (machinist, dark knight, and ast's jobs are deeply tied to ishgard, samurai is pretty obvious, gunbreaker is from bozja which we get to go to later in the expansion, and sage originates from sharlayan and reaper from garlemald), we'll just have to wait until patch content to figure out what directions they'll go with the setting (and jobs)

honestly too i'd like if they made a real blue mage job. they could re-name blue mage as it currently exists to "true blue mage" and the actual blue mage job would just be...blue mage. they said they couldn't implement blue mage without taking away what made it unique, so my question is why not have blue mage? they can have the fun side content blue mage, and an actual job for people like me who's favorite job in the franchise is blue mage.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

We only really have 4+1 classes anyway, just with 19 different flavours.

I'm pretty much fine with the formula, but given that it is what it is, new jobs don't massively excite me anymore. Also I've played plenty of MMO's that don't add new classes every expansion.

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Why do you have 4 more classes than I have? There is only one class (DPS), with 3 specs (Red/Blue/Green), and each spec has a couple variants.
(and I love it this way)

Its a double edged sword.
Honestly, I am 100% for the idea that maybe at least ONE WHOLE EXPANSION...they dont release a new job, and all that work they would put into a new job is reallocated to pure job balance, and making fresh new content around it.

The other side is, yes new jobs are attractive and get peoples attention...who cares if having to many jobs to balance will further divide balance. Shiny New Toy bby lol.

Maybe we could or should get 1more mage and ranger so theys at an even number, and maybe 1 more melee to share scouting gear...but I do feel like weve hit that point that we should probly slow down on making new jobs, and actually put time into balancing all of the current jobs (except Bluemage, because its as intended)

That extra time could also go into a CC overhaul and/or adding more to the CC
And new Hairs and adjusting/redesigning headgear for Hrothgar and Viera

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

No. This thread is honestly bonkers. Do you people hate content? New classes are a STAPLE is MMO expansions. Not introducing new jobs in future expansions would MASSIVELY reduce hype and excitement for me and many many others. Please stop asking for this. Please. Thank you

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This is not only a short-sighted perspective but also somewhat dismissive of things that have already been proven to work.

On the one hand, XIV's design is already extremely dated. If it does not bring itself into the next decade soon, there won't be *any* more new jobs because consumer interest will have died off and development will be pulled back into maintenance mode. I am already anticipating that we will see a substantial dropoff in playerbase now that the main story has concluded, all it will take is the next big MMO experience to hit the market and steal subscriptions.

And on the other hand, XIV has already shown, definitively, that there are not only other ways than jobs to create player interest, but that specifically massive reworks generate quite a lot of player goodwill and interest. If ARR isn't enough evidence of that, the game received another massive surge in popularity in the post-SB job reworking, and again in EW now that jobs are becoming more accessible. The biggest threat to XIV's longevity these days are dated, clunky gameplay systems, and the right overhaul--effectively making a totally new game, FFXIV 3.0--would pretty much kill all other competitors and ensure XIV's dominance of the market for another 10 years.

Jobs are niche and shallow. They are fun and generate hype, but they don't actually translate to much goodwill because they are purely self-serving and don't improve on anything else in an increasingly expansive game. They are short-term trends, and do nothing to address things that current players think need to be improved in the game, nor refine the game in ways that would attract players who had never exhibited interest before.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

This is not only a short-sighted perspective but also somewhat dismissive of things that have already been proven to work.

Jobs are niche and shallow. They are fun and generate hype, but they don't actually translate to much goodwill because they are purely self-serving and don't improve on anything else in an increasingly expansive game. They are short-term trends, and do nothing to address things that current players think need to be improved in the game, nor refine the game in ways that would attract players who had never exhibited interest before.

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I agree.
A New Shiny Toy is Great and all, but there are MANY things they can do that will Generate that New Toy Hype. Many things that the game might NEED to further its Life.
As already mentioned, Job Balance, New Playable Content to make around that Balance. Job Mechanics, a New or Updated CC.
FF:XIV is about More then just check out the New Job we can Play, and there is only so many times they can do that before even THAT stops Generating Hype, or they literally Create to many Jobs to Balance. And if people are complaining already that So-So job needs attention, so-so job is Overtuned and too powerful.....bruh...this is the Curse of Variety.
Its the Spice of Life and all that Jazz...but there should be a Limit...otherwise, Imbalance Will ruin everything.

Essentially you can say that FF14 jobs don’t really translate to the magnitude of classes in other MMOs, you’re just doing the same things with different effects, it’s all patternized, no matter which job in a specific role, a builder, an aoe version of that builder, a spender, an aoe version of that spender, a cd nuke, an aoe version of that, so on. It’s basically effect glamour.

And no job has a special talent, niche or feel to it, like in WoW, because the game design itself wouldn’t even support that approach. Even tho most people here likely play this on a computer
, you can instantly tell that this game was designed as fast-food console serving, good or bad is up to you.

I wanna change my stance on this. I would like them to continue adding new jobs IF said new job is something that plays drastically different than what we have so far. I am deadly serious when I say, I want a Pet focused job back, as well as a Shapeshifter job. Maybe they needed to rework the pet system, I wont argue that, but if they can come up with a good one, yes I would like to have Trainer become a job because I want to be the very best like no one ever was. As for the Shapeshifter, I want to say they could fit in as tanks, but I don't know obviously, as it would really depend on how the job works and takes shape. Maybe it's a concept that can't work at present but maybe in a later version of the game they could, but these are two of my favorite themselves in games like this so yeah I'd like to see the game continue to add new jobs if these types of archetypes or other interesting ones could be done.

the usual problem with adding new jobs at this point is... its skills are obviously coming from somewhere. want a new healer? sure... we'll take a skill from this healer, one from that healer, give it this "special" talent which unfortunately means lessening another healer...

what more jobs lead to is increased homogenization of the jobs as a whole. sure, its a nice new shiney for a couple months, and likely an "alpha" in its job group... but all its really doing is spreading the job out between a limited pool, all for the sake of what? something new? a new weapon? I can use the inventory space for something else, trust me.

no new jobs? I am okay with that, means they could concentrate on making the jobs we have better.. plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Essentially you can say that FF14 jobs don’t really translate to the magnitude of classes in other MMOs, you’re just doing the same things with different effects, it’s all patternized, no matter which job in a specific role, a builder, an aoe version of that builder, a spender, an aoe version of that spender, a cd nuke, an aoe version of that, so on. It’s basically effect glamour.

And no job has a special talent, niche or feel to it, like in WoW, because the game design itself wouldn’t even support that approach. Even tho most people here likely play this on a computer
, you can instantly tell that this game was designed as fast-food console serving, good or bad is up to you.

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I wouldn't go far to say ffxiv jobs are doing the same things but with different effect. Yes, we all burst, sustain, and proactive in mitigate. However, each roles has their respective expectation and play style. For example, let say a caster and range. Depending on encounters, both roles partake in the encounter differently. Caster are getting more of planning, and adjusting if mistakes happens, while range, still plans, but their kits are easier to reactive to the fight and less punish during mistakes on burst.

Again, I do not believe all class are the same. Though I hope time will suggest that a great rework is amazing and just as cool as new jobs

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Originally Posted by Selvokaz

I wanna change my stance on this. I would like them to continue adding new jobs IF said new job is something that plays drastically different than what we have so far. I am deadly serious when I say, I want a Pet focused job back, as well as a Shapeshifter job. Maybe they needed to rework the pet system, I wont argue that, but if they can come up with a good one, yes I would like to have Trainer become a job because I want to be the very best like no one ever was. As for the Shapeshifter, I want to say they could fit in as tanks, but I don't know obviously, as it would really depend on how the job works and takes shape. Maybe it's a concept that can't work at present but maybe in a later version of the game they could, but these are two of my favorite themselves in games like this so yeah I'd like to see the game continue to add new jobs if these types of archetypes or other interesting ones could be done.

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Tbh I don't think shapeshifter is an option seeing how FF handles the player character. Reaper is the closest we can get to shapeshifting - and it's basically force-dresses your character in an NPC clothing. Overall Reaper's Enshroud made very intrestingly, but for now it's the pinnacle of change they can do with character changing - and it's already a bit shunned because it removes any racial details, including horns and tails.

It would be nice to get something like WoW druids or hunters, but I'm afraid current engine (and also how pets were being handled with summoners, which was very clunky) just wont be able to handle such classes smoothly

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Originally Posted by Selvokaz

I wanna change my stance on this. I would like them to continue adding new jobs IF said new job is something that plays drastically different than what we have so far. I am deadly serious when I say, I want a Pet focused job back, as well as a Shapeshifter job. Maybe they needed to rework the pet system, I wont argue that, but if they can come up with a good one, yes I would like to have Trainer become a job because I want to be the very best like no one ever was. As for the Shapeshifter, I want to say they could fit in as tanks, but I don't know obviously, as it would really depend on how the job works and takes shape. Maybe it's a concept that can't work at present but maybe in a later version of the game they could, but these are two of my favorite themselves in games like this so yeah I'd like to see the game continue to add new jobs if these types of archetypes or other interesting ones could be done.

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for a shapeshifter they could make like an "esper" caster (think of terra in ff6 and how she could transform into an esper) or tank or whatever they wanted really

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

I disagree.

First of all, not all categories are balanced. We still only have 3 casters and 3 ranged.

Second, reworks aren't like adding new classes, they are more like deleting a class to add a new one. You like the new SMN and MNK, but a lot of people who played them before hate the change and had to drop them because of it.
I certainly won't be touching MNK anymore after the changes so for me they effectively deleted a class, rather than added one. And that was just a very secondary class for me, I can't imagine one of my main/favourite classes receiving that treatment.

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This is how I feel with AST