PvP Rewards; 6.1 and beyond.

Also I want to mention you won't hear a lot of opinions from actual pvpers here, most pvpers are just tired of arguing with PvErs who never played the game mode or just lack the skill level to do so. And especially when people just parrot insanely wrong facts like "all of PvPaissa are wintraders" or "people bragging about wintrading on their livestream". Like where do we even go from here when you say stuff like that, it's like you started off the argument by saying the moon is made of cheese as an actual fact.

Yoshi P said the old top 100 rewards were going to remain exclusive. It makes sense from a competitive standpoint and how the game mode was advertised. I love this game and I've been playing since 1.0, but honestly if he walks back on this I would definitely think about quitting as it's just such a huge betrayal since I supported the game and participated in the game mode under the assumption he would keep his word.

The simple solution for everyone is to just introduce newer and better rewards.

You sound like a wintrader, typicaly PvPer, sad that you guys got rewarded for playing a dead game mode

https://c.tenor.com/rnhV3fu39f8AAAAM/eating-anime.gif

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Let me give you an example of how removed from reality this statement is: "It wouldn't surprise me if the whole Balance Discord is full of people who buy all their clears."(This might be true idk) I would really like to hear any sort of actual evidence you have on any of the stuff you spewed out. I assume either yourself or someone you know got told once how they could play better in PVP, got mad, left all discords, never improved, didn't make top100, and got madge.

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Ah yes, there it is, a S19 Armor Gatekeeper.

The last thing i gotta do, is justifying myself on the internet, so take things as you will.

A Discord Channel pretending to work for the "good" of PvP in general seems to be too good of a perfect disguise, dont you think?

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Originally Posted by Anhra

A Discord Channel pretending to work for the "good" of PvP in general seems to be too good of a perfect disguise, dont you think?

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Curious about how does this work? Paissa is a public channel with 19 000 members while leaderboards only fit a 100 :p

I got t100 on my main last season, and I think the rewards shouldn't stay exclusive. That being said, the past seasonal rewards should IMO require skill. The reason why I think the reward structure isn't necessarily great is because of FOMO. All else equal, seasons with bad rewards tend to have less player participation while seasons with better rewards tend to have more.

The solution IMO is to create a token rewarded for a seasonal t100, tradeable for any past seasonal reward. This prevents the FOMO and means that all rewards are obtainable forever, but still require skill.

Cheating, wintrading, and speedhacking is a problem with the STF, not the incentive structure.

My issue with Feast though, is that the community is too small because SE has not really put a lot of effort into growing it. This leads to so many issues:

- MMR can become very imbalanced because of the small player pool
- FOMO: you either get to gold in the first few weeks or not at all.
- Too many cliques and drama. With a larger community it's usually easier to avoid the weird cliques and drama.

I don't think I'll be seriously PvPing anymore outside of doing Frontlines with friends. The game mode itself was really fun but parts of the community honestly ruined it for me.

The game needs more exclusivity, not less. If the issue is that pvp is "special" then the solution is to add special titles or glamour to high end pve challenges. Special titles for world first, world 1 - 10, server first etc etc.

MMOs are not designed to be 100%'d, you don't need nor deserve literally everything that's in the game. The vast majority of content in the game is handed to you on a silver platter, most of it is extremely low effort "Do X Thing Y amount of times" which anyone can get with patience and zero challenge. Prestige has always been an MMO staple, when people get legendary weapons or special titles for being exceptional that's a good thing. I miss walking by people ingame and being genuinely impressed rather than thinking "That outfit is 80% mogstation" or "Wow they really did 10,000 leves for that huh".

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Originally Posted by Anhra

It wouldnt suprise me if the whole PvPaissa Discord is full of Wintraders. It is the same mess on Omega DC on every Feast Season, the moment a non-regular of the Top 100 Leaderboard shows up anywhere close to it who isnt part of the Discord, gets quickly filtered away by said regulars (or their Alts) by them either throwing the game, or simply log off the moment you are in their team.

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You seem incredibly sure of this and are making VERY LARGE claims so i'm assuming you would have some form of proof of a large scale new player-griefing operation on Chaos. Do you have a catalogue of examples to back up these claims? I know plenty of first-time players on NA who got top 100 in the last few seasons, including some who started very late into these seasons( one player in particular was completely brand new to ff14 and started PVPing at the start of October and improved fast enough on healer to get top 100 in s20, which ended about a month ago) Many of these first-time players had no problem getting top 100 while still learning which makes me skeptical whenever someone claims gatekeeping as the sole reason that they miss out on rewards.

If they want to bring back old feast rewards, they should go to the poor souls ranked 101+ who missed out by less than 25 points during each season. An acceptable compromise, no?

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Originally Posted by AtomicBomb

If they want to bring back old feast rewards, they should go to the poor souls ranked 101+ who missed out by less than 25 points during each season. An acceptable compromise, no?

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Give to the people likely screwed by cheating and not to the people that AFK at nodes in Frontlines?

Sounds too reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Praesul

The game needs more exclusivity, not less. If the issue is that pvp is "special" then the solution is to add special titles or glamour to high end pve challenges. Special titles for world first, world 1 - 10, server first etc etc.

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if they announced more exclusivity I would stop playing & look for another game.
PvP is already bad enough w/ those that I'm waiting on what the changes entail before I decide if I want to bother w/ the new thing.

The greatest thing about 14 is how it's "you want to get this, then do x", even if it's unforgiving like solo PotD.
However, feast is "you want this? get lost lmao".

Hence I'd welcome the reintroduction of the old stuff.
If you want to be pedantic make them "authentic imitation"s like the old event housing items are.

May someone enlighten me - has the feast been popular on the JP datacenters?
For as much as I can tell, they put a lot of effort into making it lucrative by offering exclusives - but it only makes people look to wintrading to ensure themselves getting them w/o getting many new players into it.

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Originally Posted by QueenVanraen

if they announced more exclusivity I would stop playing & look for another game.

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No offense, but if that's the kind of stuff that makes you unsub from a game the problem might lie more within you than the game <.<.

I see no issue in a game trying to reward its players by performing well in a certain mode, or achieving a certain challenge etc. I really dislike how people seem to always end up complaining about everything having to be readily accessible for them at the blink of an eye.

The way I see it? The Feast rewards are nothing but shiny trophies. Literally trophies. You don't ever ask for a trophy to be given to you, because you like how it looks... You are asked to perform well in whatever competition this trophy was given out.

And just to clarify...I'm not even a seasoned PVPer, and I generally hate anything involving PVP related because of how heated things can get mixed with peoples' inability to keep their temper most of the time. Also, the whole cheating and rigged leaderboards with dozens of alts is very underwhelming and I also hate it, but using that as an excuse to bring exclusive past rewards back? What kind of twisted logic is that <.<.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

No offense, but if that's the kind of stuff that makes you unsub from a game the problem might lie more within you than the game <.<..

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I'm a collector - getting minions, mounts, orchestrions, etc. is literally my endgame.
Yours might be fashion, or just making gil, or housing, doesn't mean that I'm the issue when they use a terrible system.

If my main motivation for playing the game long-term is lost to fomo, why would I continue w/ that game & not look to somewhere else for my enjoyment?

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Originally Posted by Gallus

I see no issue in a game trying to reward its players by performing well in a certain mode, or achieving a certain challenge etc.

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The game does that everywhere else outside of feast rankings - and unlike feast rankings - without utilizing fomo *shocked pikachu face*.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gallus

I really dislike how people seem to always end up complaining about everything having to be readily accessible for them at the blink of an eye.

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For PotD you need invest up to 18hrs *just for an attempt* at killing the 2nd behemoth, the arguable hard wall for solo PotD,
not to mention you have to get your weapon & armour into the 80-90s first, which takes hours before you even think about solo.
Is the necromancer title worthless because it's just sitting there, waiting for you to play PotD?
Are the 181 always available mounts worthless because you can always get them at your own pace?

Having to work for content is good - it's what gives players an actual feeling of accomplishment.
Imagine if only the first 100 raiders *per DC* would get the savage mounts, or ultimate weapons & titles,
you'd have a lot less people even bothering to do savage, not to mention that content would be dead as soon as the well dries up - something we see w/ PvP - week 1 everyone got their placings in, week 2 you're lucky to get a pop in queue.

I really dislike how people always assume those who argue against exclusives are lazy slackers that want everything pushed up their butt.

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Originally Posted by Gallus

What kind of twisted logic is that

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These rewards shouldn't have been exclusive in the first place, simple as that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by QueenVanraen

The game does that everywhere else outside of feast rankings - and unlike feast rankings - without utilizing fomo

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Pretty much most things from 1.0 are gone, many IRL item purchases have had codes for emotes, minion's etc that cannot be obtained anymore, Ishgard restoration had 6 achievements total with 2 titles that cannot be obtained anymore, plenty of achievements have been removed over the years and things like expansion pre order items. MMO's are kinda terrible for someone who wants to collect everything :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by QueenVanraen

I'm a collector - getting minions, mounts, orchestrions, etc. is literally my endgame.

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Sounds like a personal problem. Life doesn't revolve around you.

They keep reusing PvP sets for non PvPers. Keep PvP great.

This would all be fixed by a proper ranking algorithm that took match statistics into account (like what serious competitive games do) but that's expecting way too much from them at this point.

If the new mode isn't another complete mess I'd be positively surprised but my expectations are VERY low.

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Originally Posted by Fryfor

Been argued to death. Purists who live and breathe this game mode will beg Square not to take away their goodies expecting it to be given out for free. As long as it isn't the trophies, who honestly cares as long as there's effort to put in? Square has the final say at the end of the day. I think it's pretty ironic that people will cite multitudes of reasons for why Feast never picked up without looking at the systems in place themselves. It took them how many years to finally rework this? The fact they even had to shelf Feast just so they could spark SOME kind of interest in PvP? A cornerstone for any MMO worth it's salt? Surely they didn't just want Frontlines to be the be all end all, right?

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Originally Posted by QueenVanraen

These rewards shouldn't have been exclusive in the first place, simple as that.

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Many top 100 feasters worked really hard to obtain those items. People practiced day in and out to learn how to improve in their respective jobs, logging in daily to grind their rankings for hours.
Getting to top 100 or even Diamond for players was a huge achievement and back then Feast was being pushed as a major event for FFXIV with FRC2018 being a thing for us to look forward to which offered it's own rewards.

Over the seasons especially after FRC2018 it was obvious the focus on Feast was slowly vanishing especially when later seasons became completely unmoderated. On top of this The Feast was a confusing mess, Metas and rules sometimes changing completely in just one season. (For example, Light Medals, Heavy Medals, Supply boxes, map changes and constant job updates some that would completely revamp a job)

Feast slowly became a huge mess of a mode, However, there were those that stuck with it through season after grueling season and kept it alive even when it was doomed to fail. In my opinion these rewards were well earned by those that stuck with it from beginning to end. To those that earned them reintroducing exclusive rewards would be a big slap in the face so much that I doubt many of the hard core pvpers that stuck with Feast would continue playing any new pvp game mode released.

In the event they do allow for Feast rewards to become public there are a few rewards that should absolutely stay exclusive to those that earned them:
1. FRC Titles (FRC2018 Ranker, FRC2018 Finalist, FRC2018 Champion)
2. Feast top 100, Top 10 and Rank 1 Titles (Hunter Wolf, Beta Wolf, Leader of the Pack, Including Pack Wolf Titles)
3. Tier Title Rewards (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Plat, Diamond Wolf, including Pack Wolf Titles)
4. Top 10 Crowns for Season 1 and Season 2
5. Top 10 Earring Accessories
6. Tier accessories
7. Rank 1 Trophies

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Originally Posted by Anhra

Ah yes, there it is, a S19 Armor Gatekeeper.

The last thing i gotta do, is justifying myself on the internet, so take things as you will.

A Discord Channel pretending to work for the "good" of PvP in general seems to be too good of a perfect disguise, dont you think?

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Pvpaissa was a discord created by two amazing people with the intention of teaching and helping new players interested in feast. The discord had high ranked pvpers who mentored newer players interested in ranking up in Feast with a huge amount of guides on the game mode itself, helpful pvp macros, and class guides. The community, mods, and mentors of pvpaissa old and new have done some amazing things for the pvp community. For example, holding many unofficial events like Aether Cup and Feast World Cup.
https://ffxivpvprevival.com/world-cup

It was never a hub for cheaters or some malicious discord in disguise like you claim. Hell, even some FFXIV community reps frequented the discord in the past.

Right now pvpaissa is living out it's golden years as feast has come to an end and the mantle has been handed over to a really good pvp discord called Revival - FFXIVPVP.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

This would all be fixed by a proper ranking algorithm that took match statistics into account (like what serious competitive games do) but that's expecting way too much from them at this point.

If the new mode isn't another complete mess I'd be positively surprised but my expectations are VERY low.

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I'm of the same mind. The match making algorithm and Highest Ranking being saved for the top 100 was the worst change they could have ever made and was abused really badly on Primal Datacenter in Seasons18->20. People warned them about the huge problems with the change when it was first added but they kept it in even as people abused it.
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...Ranking-System

I really think the mounts and gearsets from feast seasons should come back as high end rewards for crystal conflict. Not super easy to get, but not entirely lost to time. Of course crowns and trophies etc should remain exclusive to those people, but If we want PvP to be exciting and a content people do all the time, then having these mounts and gearsets is definitely something that would attract people and keep them playing. I know they are sought after by a lot of people, and unfortunalely 99.9% of the players don't own those mounts. Less than 0.1% of players having any of those mounts is unacceptable for how good they look. They basically don't exist in game. In my 4 years of playing I think I saw someone with a feast mount in the wild 2 times.


With other pve content, it feels like nothing is sacred to SE. In those moogle tomestone events they'll put an extremely rare emote or minion, that was really hard to achieve for some people, in a really easy to get and cheap way. I don't know why the feast rewards are the only piece of "sacred" content that can never be re-released. I also think it won't remain like that for too much longer, let's wait for 6.1 and see what the crystal conflict "season pass" rewards are going to be.


I'd also like to add that I really like pvp in this game, and do it every day. I just never tried to rank high on feast because I had other priorities.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starshower

Of course crowns and trophies etc should remain exclusive to those people, but If we want PvP to be exciting and a content people do all the time, then having these mounts and gearsets is definitely something that would attract people and keep them playing. I know they are sought after by a lot of people, and unfortunalely 99.9% of the players don't own those mounts. Less than 0.1% of players having any of those mounts is unacceptable for how good they look.

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Your reasoning why it is 'unacceptable' is because 'unfortunately 99,9% don't own it' ? That is by itself not a very good reason.
You know what would attract people to play PvP? just any good looking reward tbh, doesn't have to be an old one

each top100 reward is basically 'the trophy' of that season, idk why we only should include top1 or top10 in that circle of remaining exclusivity. If they release top100 reskins they can release top1 trophy reskins for the casual frontline player idm, its the same to me...

If you don't understand why it is "sacred" then you just can't differ between PvE and PvP I guess. I would rather voice&support your concern about moogle tomestone events that you brought up, instead of demanding that every rare item gets the same treatment, which would be pretty sad for the game in my opinion.

But ye we will see with 6.1 or later, and given their track record of PvP reskins for PvE and less items for the PvP mode overall in the last addon, one is not very hopeful about them not taking the forbidden ranked-feastreward fruit, just to save dev time and release on time. I hope they don't take that shortcut.

If i can just add my 2 cents, imho they should go like this..
Old rewards can rot to hell.. wathever..
For a new system i think they could leave top1, top10 and top100. They should get only titles and trophies or plates (i mean a furnishing item like). Beside that should exist a similar battle pass sistem that let you achieve with hard work mounts and glamours..

what do you think? i think that could be a nice compromise..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Garten

leave top1, top10 and top100. They should get only titles and trophies or plates (i mean a furnishing item like). Beside that should exist a similar battle pass sistem that let you achieve with hard work mounts and glamours.

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So everything available for everyone and people who play ranked can obtain the bracket titles on top of that? Sounds good actually :p

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Your reasoning why it is 'unacceptable' is because 'unfortunately 99,9% don't own it' ? That is by itself not a very good reason.
You know what would attract people to play PvP? just any good looking reward tbh, doesn't have to be an old one

each top100 reward is basically 'the trophy' of that season, idk why we only should include top1 or top10 in that circle of remaining exclusivity. If they release top100 reskins they can release top1 trophy reskins for the casual frontline player idm, its the same to me...

If you don't understand why it is "sacred" then you just can't differ between PvE and PvP I guess. I would rather voice&support your concern about moogle tomestone events that you brought up, instead of demanding that every rare item gets the same treatment, which would be pretty sad for the game in my opinion.

But ye we will see with 6.1 or later, and given their track record of PvP reskins for PvE and less items for the PvP mode overall in the last addon, one is not very hopeful about them not taking the forbidden ranked-feastreward fruit, just to save dev time and release on time. I hope they don't take that shortcut.

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Would it be acceptable for you if we got those old mounts and gearsets, but in a new color? That would be alright for me, but a passerby wouldn't know your colorway is the rare one, would that sour it for you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starshower

Would it be acceptable for you if we got those old mounts and gearsets, but in a new color?

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They could have made it like that, if they designed it that way from the start, but I don't feel like it is gonna work out now, at least for glamour. Simply because there is barely any difference between the reskins past season2. You need a magnifier to see the differences for some sets, because they are all dyeable by default, so if something is made both in black for example - you have like 5 pixels that are different. Not even PvP players gonna see the difference with the latest reskinsets.

If you look at mounts they already brought some back from 1-2years ago with a second reskin just before Feast ended, so maybe there will be more. The new system will reward you for just participating any PvP duty already, the effort wouldn't be similar...That is the real issue I guess, would suck if it becomes a grind activity with no knowledge/skill involved.

If you look at the hellhound for example, there are already 4 versions of it, and some PvE mounts even use the very same skelton - Fenrir, Managarm and Kamuy/Ninetails. It is already blue/red/green/silverlila - do we really need the whole rainbow? Yellow White hellhounds ? idk

When they could just release instead an even cooler hellhound skeletontype mount with wings - Tioman https://i.imgur.com/gJj3w1k.png

In the end having fun is the objective, the next pvp patch seems like its promising if balancing isnt a mess, and it will make the reward system better for casual players even if the old rewards are not in it. I think many of the players complaining in the past they didnt get it, would have gotten it if they had more fun with the mode, as it wasn't that difficult in some seasons with low gold floor.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

So everything available for everyone and people who play ranked can obtain the bracket titles on top of that? Sounds good actually :p

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Yeah. Of course i dont mean that it should become something braindead, like is collecting wolfmark for example or people would just spam matches and afk. There should be like daily or weekly challenges that grant points toward the battle pass.. i have not a lot of experience with this type of mechanic, but i always thought the fortnite one was simple understandable..

I think the t100 players who had to no-life the game would feel a bit betrayed if their hard-earned rewards were just thrown into a new system for everyone to get after a set amount of time casually doing PVP. Then again, overall it would make even more people happy to be able to have a chance to receive rewards such as the dope DarkSouls like armour sets. It's a tough thing. If it did come to it, I would be for putting anything into the system in order to make PVP more active and enjoyable. Totally understandable if someone who does own a top 100 reward would not want others to obtain it as it makes them unique in a sea of the same old glamour and mounts everyone can easily obtain. It's some of the few things where if you see them in town or open-world you always have to examine them cause it's soo cool. We have few things in this game like that nowadays and I guess it's cool to keep it that way.

Let the veteran players keep their exclusive rewards. Give the new players re-skins. Everyone is happy \o/

Bring back the old stuff + add new stuff. Stuff to work toward just like every other mode.

In no other part of the game (well, there is the Restoration titles for crafters, another blunder) such an obtuse and unrewarding system was in place as in the Feast.
The whole game mode eventually failed because it wasn't fun, it wasn't rewarding and it was rigged/was abusable.

None of those rewards is worth keeping behind bars if they could be used to fuel PvP modes, recurrent track rewards, etc. But no matter how many new PvP modes they add, if they again make them as they were in the Feast, that game mode will also be a failure. Because it was from the begining the rigged and completely out of place ladderboard and reward structure which doomed the Feast in the end. There is no worth on rewards that were given out on rigged competitions, people was trading all over the place we all know SE never gived a damned, act as much as you like: "oh but i worked hard for them" - maybe, but we have no way to tell - And that's exactly why it wasn't a proper competition to begin with. When a proper competition is in place there are also systems in place to validate and oversee that the competition is always legit... Not such thing happend in all the years of the feast.

It's rewards are stained. You got no way to tell anyone "I legit won this mount/armor in PvP". Because there was no proper competition systems in the beging - And mind you, this game mode was supposedly built with e-sports in mind.

A complete failure. The one good thing they could for the Feast aside eliminating even the rankings would be to release it's rewards (of course with a proper token-economy system that encouraged daily PvP participation). As a manner of restoration for all the players that actually like PvP but cannot be bothered to participate in rigged competitions that were more closely related to fixing your schedule and evading tilters than actual PvP skills.

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Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

You got no way to tell anyone "I legit won this mount/armor in PvP".

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Now see, this is just disrespectful to the people who grinded literal thousands of hours for their achievement per season.

You're right though, the exclusive rewards aren't common throughout the game, but I fail to see why that's a bad thing? The devs try their best to have a piece of the game for every type of player, and the Ranked PVP is for the sweaty tryhards who enjoy competition. I don't understand the concept that everything must always be for you. If you don't like it, don't do it, you don't see me crying over the Morbal mount being locked behind BLU that I don't care to do. Or hunt mounts, or crafter mounts, etc.

Also you cannot just blanket statement every resentment you have for the game mode. Is it perfect? No, and many of us look forward to the upcoming changes, but saying things like "The whole game mode eventually failed because it wasn't fun" when I legitimately had fun at times(not all the time, lets be real), or "Because it was from the begining the rigged and completely out of place ladderboard and reward structure" bruh, I played Tank. That's 30min-1hour queues in a role that doesn't carry as hard as melee or healer. If it was that "riggable" I wouldn't have to play 600 games to secure my spot. "people was trading all over the place", there are about 10 times as many legitimate alt accounts than there are wintraders, you want to free up space on the Top100 boards? Tackle that first. "A complete failure." tell you what, YOU add on PVP to a game that wasn't built with PVP in mind and you try to cater to both the hardcore veterans as well as the daily casuals and tell me if you can nail it on the first try. Almost everything added into this game is trial and error, go look up Diadem, check out the first Alexander Raids on release.

I want the competition. I want the exclusivity. It's what I enjoy more than a majority of the other content in the game. If it's not for you, then don't play it. All this complaining while in the last live letter they announced changes to the ranking structure not to mention how the new game mode actually works in a way that it should make it more difficult for cheaters. Imagine if all the people asking for rewards to be freebies instead wrote posts on the lack of intervention from SE on cheaters.

What if they had leaderboards that were just for show, like the rankings for POTD or Free Company? Would anyone care then? It's doubtful. PVP players need something to work toward too. But opening it up for more players is a good thing, since we WANT more people to play PVP even if the game wasn't designed for it at its core. Let's say Rank 1 is the highest you can get and you start at 50 or something and work your way up. Wouldn't it be enough for you if YOU achieved Rank 1 along with several others? Or does it HAVE to be you to the exclusion of everyone else?

(Granted if FFXIV PVP was an actual e-sport having such a ranked leaderboard would make sense, but it's not and despite their best efforts, it will never be).

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

What if they had leaderboards that were just for show, like the rankings for POTD or Free Company? Would anyone care then? It's doubtful. PVP players need something to work toward too.

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Wrong.

What is characteristic of FFXIV playerbase is that we aren't competitive at all. Yes there are raiders playing for world first, there are crafters that are 24/7 undercutting and someone might think their PvP rank is the subject of endless envy... But reality is that most of us, here playing XIV, don't give a single damn about "Status". What we in general want, is just access and be able to get what we want at our own pace.

Thats why: If the new PvP mode is competitive, will fail exactly like the Feast. We don't want competition on PvP, we just want to PvP. Weird i know. But is in fact the reason why the only sucessful PvP mode in this game is the Frontlines - Is non-competitive at it's core.

We need a higher number of participants, continuous (24/7) instanced battleground PvP, something like World vs World in GW2.

They are already catering it more towards the casual playerbase by most likely putting the mounts and armor as the SERIES reward, with the unique calling cards and titles as the SEASON reward in response to so many posts similar to this complaining about armor they cannot get. I think they will get rid of the boards tbh, and just make it achievement based per season/series. Which I am not a huge fan of cause I see it stripping the competition down to FL levels, which isn't fun. Will just have to wait and see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

We don't want competition on PvP, we just want to PvP.

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PVP - Player vs Player. Where the outcome results in one winner, and one loser.

Competition - Competition is a rivalry where two or more parties strive for a common goal which cannot be shared: where one's gain is the other's loss.

PVP is a competition. If you win the PVP, you win the competition. You cannot separate the two and still call it PVP.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

PVP - Player vs Player. Where the outcome results in one winner, and one loser.

Competition - Competition is a rivalry where two or more parties strive for a common goal which cannot be shared: where one's gain is the other's loss.

PVP is a competition. If you win the PVP, you win the competition. You cannot separate the two and still call it PVP.

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Yes you can. Look at Frontlines.
It's PvP - No one cares. Fun as heck. Rewarding. Active.

XIV will never have a COMPETITIVE mode in anything, because it's playerbase is not like that - Only a very VERY small vocal minority here in the forums like to pretend it's otherwise. Most of the players, just want to participate, have fun, be rewarded. Who wins and loses - no one cares.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alexandre_Noireau

Yes you can. Look at Frontlines.
It's PvP - No one cares. Fun as heck. Rewarding. Active.

XIV will never have a COMPETITIVE mode in anything, because it's playerbase is not like that - Only a very VERY small vocal minority here in the forums like to pretend it's otherwise. Most of the players, just want to participate, have fun, be rewarded. Who wins and loses - no one cares.

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Frontlines has a winner and two losers. In fact, you might not know this, but the winner gets rewarded more for winning(exp, wolf marks, credit towards a mount, credit towards the Field Commander set, etc.), so it's still a competition even if you don't treat it like one.

"XIV will never have a COMPETITIVE mode in anything" if you don't include the 20 seasons of Feast and exclude FRC, you'd still be wrong because every PVP mode is a competition. Just because you personally don't care whether you win or lose doesn't mean your teammates don't as well. In fact, they most likely resent you for not trying to win because every PVP mode is a competition.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Frontlines has a winner and two losers. In fact, you might not know this, but the winner gets rewarded more for winning(exp, wolf marks, credit towards a mount, credit towards the Field Commander set, etc.), so it's still a competition even if you don't treat it like one.

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Is exactly what happens If you remove the feeling of a competition, then you no longer have it. Competition is a thing of attitude more than some aparently solid rule of the universe as you want to check it.

Frontline has no winners or losers, only people queuing up endlessly 24/7 because eventually they win, eventually the lose, life goes on and is a rewarding and fun experience.
No one enters frontlines with the mindset high competition. And is exactly that highly competitive actitude which just doens't work with XIV playerbase - Literally we don't care. Why the Feast was dead aside the 10 people that cared. Like there is literally dozens/hundreds of players who play Frontlines per each "competitive" player of the Feast.

All that granted you are not one of those who cry about losing in Frontlines, hah.

If it makes you more to the idea, let's split competition in two: the basics of common challenge/goal for a reward AND a form of mindset/way of thinking about that challenge/goal.
Is this second aspect of a competition what choked the feast - Thus, creating a new pvp mode that exacerbates exactly the same as the Feast did - A highly competitive mindset. Then that mode is doomed to die: Because most players do not care.

In 6.1 or after they'll have the battlepass for casual PvP players to make progress towards rewards, and they'll also have a ranked mode which will be far less popular but will also serve to cater to the more competitive crowd. Not all content has to be for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

the exclusive rewards aren't common throughout the game, but I fail to see why that's a bad thing? The devs try their best to have a piece of the game for every type of player, and the Ranked PVP is for the sweaty tryhards who enjoy competition. I don't understand the concept that everything must always be for you. If you don't like it, don't do it, you don't see me crying over the Morbal mount being locked behind BLU that I don't care to do. Or hunt mounts, or crafter mounts, etc.

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Hmm I think the sentiment for most is not that the rewards were exclusive, its that they are completely non-obtainable once the season is over. If one were to theoretically hear about FFXIV for the first time in 2021 and then subsequently go on to become by far and away the greatest Feast player of all time, they will never be able to obtain a Felhound mount. Where as if that same person found out about Morbol/Legend status/whatever and then became the best at their craft, they COULD obtain those things. The Feast rewards should remain extraordinary feats. But they don't need to be removed from the game. When new players join this game and see a past reward, ask where its from, and then want to obtain it only to find out they cant... What is the incentive participate in PvP at all if they can't get the reward they wanted no matter how good they got at it?