Predict the endwalker healing meta!

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Trust me I don't. I stopped at 50 when I realized how boring and unfun it is compared to sch/whm.
Cards, crowns, divination and healing??? At 50 no sir.

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the bait never ceases

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

the bait never ceases

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I realize now that ff14 community when they can’t understand someone else’s opinion or thought process defaults to calling someone bait. I guess it’s just a form of lack of understanding or mental exposure to understand.

"AST can't be meta because it's too hard for Sylphies to figure out more than one button" isn't an opinion. It's gibberish.

Don't tier lists or metagaming generally assume that people play the stuff at a very high or nearly perfect level, anyway?

Static meta: AST/SCH

Casual meta: WHM/SGE

While WHM did get nerfed in certain areas its simplistic design is still very new savage healer friendly over AST due to not having to worry about raid buff alignment. SGE and SCH might just be asthetic choosing but SCH is really really good however there are some players that just refuse to play SCH due to the fairy management and possible ghosting.

From what I can see, as long as SCH and AST are the only healers with raid buffs/debuffs, they'll always be meta. Not like meta matters that much anyway since it only applies to speed clearing.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Except AST is terrible design. You are forced to constantly weave and manage multiple systems it's insane.

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Not liking it/difficult to play & master =/= terrible

Not only its busy,but its also fun, rewarding and powerful.
Fortunately, WHM exists for people who don't like clicky jobs and prefer more straighforward gameplay.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

Except AST is terrible design. You are forced to constantly weave and manage multiple systems it's insane.

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Such a terrible design that they're making every other healer more in line with it in Endwalker!

AST/SCH

Damage is king, and I think SCH will bring more rDPS than SGE. AST because…..obviously.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

"AST can't be meta because it's too hard for Sylphies to figure out more than one button" isn't an opinion. It's gibberish.

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it’s “too busy” you don’t get time to learn fights and enjoy the game while playing it because you are managing your own abilities too much

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

Such a terrible design that they're making every other healer more in line with it in Endwalker!

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1.5 weaving is fine.
constantly having play draw, having to match cards, having to have separate seals, having to upgrade cards and heal same time is very intense and not fun to play

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

1.5 weaving is fine.
constantly having play draw, having to match cards, having to have separate seals, having to upgrade cards and heal same time is very intense and not fun to play

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I'm sorry you feel that way. :)

AST SCH

If not begin of the expansion, definitely sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in

I realize now that ff14 community when they can’t understand someone else’s opinion or thought process defaults to calling someone bait. I guess it’s just a form of lack of understanding or mental exposure to understand.

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Except it's not an opinion because you speak in absolutes. To paraphrase: "AST won't be meta over WHM because it is boring and unfun." You do this all the time where you parade around opinions and misinformation as gospel truth that the rest of us aren't enlightened enough to understand, and that's why you're always met with people claiming "bait." These statements are so far from reality that they cannot be perceived as legitimate opinions.

First and foremost "boring" is a incredibly odd choice even by your own description. You blamed the cards and divination for why AST is unfun, and someone who was bothered by those specific aspects wouldn't use the word "boring" because it doesn't make sense in that context. The words you'd actually use if those aspects of the job bothered you would be things like "confusing," "hectic," or "frustrating." "Boring" implies that something is too repetitive or slow--that you have difficulty staying focused as there's not enough to engage with in some meaningful fashion, which is not the kind of experience the card system would elicit in someone who wouldn't like it.

Next, "Meta" is used in reference to raiding, not popularity. WHM will likely always be the most popular healer in numbers because it's the most accessible healer at level 1, it's easy to play, it's a classic Final Fantasy job where SCH and especially AST are more niche, and it's ultimately good enough to clear anything despite every other healer having better support and better healing. This is not meta. WHM has not been meta in over 4 years. This isn't news. It's based on real information from actual people clearing content.

That's not to say that no one can't still like WHM. Some people like the aesthetic, or the concept of what WHM is supposed to be, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with saying "I'll still play WHM because I like it." There's nothing wrong with saying "AST is too complicated for me, and I don't enjoy it." I hate NIN because, as one of my FC mates has put it, its opener is like playing Flight of the Bumblebee on your keyboard/controller while everyone else is playing scales. It's too much for my enjoyment, and that's mores stressful for me than it is fun, but that doesn't mean it's not meta or that it's a badly designed job.

If you weren't a troll and weren't baiting, then I would imagine you could read that and understand why there's a difference in speaking in absolutes vs sharing opinions. If that's something you genuinely care about, then learn how to present your posts as something other than false gospel and people will engage with you cordially.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Except it's not an opinion because you speak in absolutes. To paraphrase: "AST won't be meta over WHM because it is boring and unfun." You do this all the time where you parade around opinions and misinformation as gospel truth that the rest of us aren't enlightened enough to understand, and that's why you're always met with people claiming "bait." These statements are so far from reality that they cannot be perceived as legitimate opinions.

First and foremost "boring" is a incredibly odd choice even by your own description. You blamed the cards and divination for why AST is unfun, and someone who was bothered by those specific aspects wouldn't use the word "boring" because it doesn't make sense in that context. The words you'd actually use if those aspects of the job bothered you would be things like "confusing," "hectic," or "frustrating." "Boring" implies that something is too repetitive or slow--that you have difficulty staying focused as there's not enough to engage with in some meaningful fashion, which is not the kind of experience the card system would elicit in someone who wouldn't like it.

Next, "Meta" is used in reference to raiding, not popularity. WHM will likely always be the most popular healer in numbers because it's the most accessible healer at level 1, it's easy to play, it's a classic Final Fantasy job -snip-.

That's not to say that no one can't still like WHM. Some people like the aesthetic, or the concept of what WHM is supposed to be, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with saying "I'll still play WHM because I like it." There's nothing wrong with saying "AST is too complicated for me, and I don't enjoy it." I hate NIN because, as one of my FC mates has put it, its opener is like playing Flight of the Bumblebee on your keyboard/controller while everyone else is playing scales. It's too much for my enjoyment, and that's mores stressful for me than it is fun, but that doesn't mean it's not meta or that it's a badly designed job.

If you weren't a troll and weren't baiting, then I would imagine you could read that and understand why there's a difference in speaking in absolutes vs sharing opinions. If that's something you genuinely care about, then learn how to present your posts as something other than false gospel and people will engage with you cordially.

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I actually appreciate this post. That kind of explains why people constantly have thought my point of view was bait. I do tend to speak in absolutes….and yes boring to me is something unfun. However the reason i consider it unfun is too many systems to manage so frustrating/unfulfilling or not worth the effort would be better description. Anyway I’ll work on this cause I tend to do it irl I think also.

On paper, with current values, AST + SGE seems better for both progression and damage.
- Chain Stratagem is noticeably weaker at the start of expansions, since crit buffs have more impact much later in gear progression.
- Lilybell doesn't actually seem that good, since the WHM needs to be the one hit in order to trigger it. (though maybe there will be an abundance of J-Wave Style Damage output)
- SGE's HPS is significantly higher than SCHs ~and~ SGE has no opportunity cost for using Addersgall Healing oGCDs.
- Macrocosmos

SCH with Expedient may also be an incredibly powerful prog and uptime tool, but I do not personally believe that ability alone will tip the balance in SCHs favor.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

On paper, with current values, AST + SGE seems better for both progression and damage.
- Chain Stratagem is noticeably weaker at the start of expansions, since crit buffs have more impact much later in gear progression.
- Lilybell doesn't actually seem that good, since the WHM needs to be the one hit in order to trigger it. (though maybe there will be an abundance of J-Wave Style Damage output)
- SGE's HPS is significantly higher than SCHs ~and~ SGE has no opportunity cost for using Addersgall Healing oGCDs.
- Macrocosmos

SCH with Expedient may also be an incredibly powerful prog and uptime tool, but I do not personally believe that ability alone will tip the balance in SCHs favor.

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Why do you think that SGE has higher hps then scholar? Seems quite the opposite if they have to move at all. They do have of course benefit of being able to choose the recipient of the kardia heals. You can't base anything off potency since those aren't final and just have to look at the kit. While I will be playing sage as my main, its shielding is inferior, its spread coverage is inferior because of the abilities tied to its physical location. If I recall correctly alot of its aoes have a tighter range then scholars as well. They are also the most immobile healer and punished the most by having to move of all 4.

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

Why do you think that SGE has higher hps then scholar? Seems quite the opposite if they have to move at all. They do have of course benefit of being able to choose the recipient of the kardia heals. You can't base anything off potency since those aren't final and just have to look at the kit. While I will be playing sage as my main, its shielding is inferior, its spread coverage is inferior because of the abilities tied to its physical location. If I recall correctly alot of its aoes have a tighter range then scholars as well. They are also the most immobile healer and punished the most by having to move of all 4.

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Potencies are all we have to compare them but just by looking at the skills SGE seems to have an edge in a lot of aspects, quick examples are physis vs whispering dawn in which physis is a 20% stronger, the existence of physis 2, Zoe is far more versatile than deplo as it not only can be used to put a bigger shield with prognosis than anything Sch can put without relying on buffs and crits but also can be used with pneuma for an 800 potency heal that happens to be dps neutral (and gain in AoE), Haima as a source of single target shielding far more consistent than seraphic veil and Painhaima by its nature of shielding first and healing second has an easier time to not waste potential than Consolation, etc...

Sch shielding also does not have better numbers unless you go to suboptimal routes (basically, recitation and buff it to the extreme), Succor is worth 320 potency shield in EW which is the same as E!Prognosis and both Adlo and E!Diagnosis are clones, difference being that if you dont crit and spread an adlo you'd spread a 540 potency shield vs Zoe + E!Prognosis which is worth 640, Scholar could in theory surpass Sge's numbers if they go full protraction+recitation+fey illum+dissipation but at least 3 of those 4 skills will be used in uptime so unless a cheese strat needs it that would be overkill and poorly efficient and if we take attacks that deal multiple hits panhaima + Zoe E!prognosis alone can be better than anything Sch can throw

About range while its true Sch has the fairy to heal far away Sge's reach in terms of the radius of its heals are either equal or higher than Sch's and with Icaros to move freely to a party member unless mechanics need the healers to be far away or not being able to reach party members Sge could overcome that, thats without mention how the 3 major skills Sch has to use from far away are Consolation, Whispering Dawn and Soil have a Sge equivalent that is "fire and forget" being Panhaima a heal that automatically refresh the shield, Physis a regen that once in on the party member you can forget about it and Kerachole being also a skill that once makes contact with the party member they get the full benefit so if they have to be far away from the party for not too long periods of time a smart sge could do as well as Sch

And while its true Sge has the least mobility vs Sch its also worth notice that every downtime gives sge up to 3 intacast gcds + melee range gcd every 45s + a gap closer+ the dot refresh and the lower cast time in EW, they're not a mage turret and contrary to Sch they have more tools to move without losing dps (woudnt be suprised if they also give more ways to get toxicons in 6.05 too)

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Originally Posted by DragoAskani

Why do you think that SGE has higher hps then scholar? Seems quite the opposite if they have to move at all. They do have of course benefit of being able to choose the recipient of the kardia heals. You can't base anything off potency since those aren't final and just have to look at the kit. While I will be playing sage as my main, its shielding is inferior, its spread coverage is inferior because of the abilities tied to its physical location. If I recall correctly alot of its aoes have a tighter range then scholars as well. They are also the most immobile healer and punished the most by having to move of all 4.

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For the sake of your argument, I will completely disregard potency (even though Potency as it stands right now puts SGE clearly in the lead)

SGE's shielding is not inferior to SCH. All of SGE's shielding GCDs can be cast while moving, giving SGE numerous situations where they would be favorable.
I also don't really understand people like you saying SGE is immobile. Each healer now has tremendous slide cast and movement potential. SGE can also gather Addersting stacks by pre-shielding before pull or during transition.
SCHs are required to save an energy drain for movement and retain their opportunity cost for Aetherflow. SGE can freely use Addersgall (Allowing for free Kerachole Damage Reduction and Regen without the placement restrictions of Soil)
Both SCH and SGE have roughly the same range on all healing abilities showcased thus far (several exceptions: Fey Blessing, Seraph, Pneuma, Physis II)
Most importantly, SGE has Prognosis, a Medica/Helios variant.

I believe the only real advantage SCH has over the other healers is Expedient and Displaced Healing. While WHM and AST have several decent options for displaced healing, SGE really doesn't have anything in that category, except for Pneuma, which has a very large 25m radius.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

For the sake of your argument, I will completely disregard potency (even though Potency as it stands right now puts SGE clearly in the lead)

SGE's shielding is not inferior to SCH. All of SGE's shielding GCDs can be cast while moving, giving SGE numerous situations where they would be favorable.
I also don't really understand people like you saying SGE is immobile. Each healer now has tremendous slide cast and movement potential. SGE can also gather Addersting stacks by pre-shielding before pull or during transition.
SCHs are required to save an energy drain for movement and retain their opportunity cost for Aetherflow. SGE can freely use Addersgall (Allowing for free Kerachole Damage Reduction and Regen without the placement restrictions of Soil)
Both SCH and SGE have roughly the same range on all healing abilities showcased thus far (several exceptions: Fey Blessing, Seraph, Pneuma, Physis II)
Most importantly, SGE has Prognosis, a Medica/Helios variant.

I believe the only real advantage SCH has over the other healers is Expedient and Displaced Healing. While WHM and AST have several decent options for displaced healing, SGE really doesn't have anything in that category, except for Pneuma, which has a very large 25m radius.

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How do potencies put SGE clearly in the lead? Most of its skills share the same potency with SCH (like Addersgall skills) and some of them are slightly more powerful or slightly weaker.

SGE has weaker shields (you could use Zoe and hope for a crit, but you can't plan around RNG) and while shields being instant is nice, it's also not the huge advantage you think it is, especially considering that shields are supposed to be planned and are something you can cast well in advance.

SGE is not the most immobile healer (that's still WHM), but it is also not as mobile as SCH. SCH can have 100% DPS uptime thanks to Ruin II and in prog the DPS loss doesn't matter so you don't have to use ED for that. SGE has Toxicon but not every fight has transitions, so sometimes it will be even more clunky to get stacks.

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Originally Posted by rewd

SGE has weaker shields (you could use Zoe and hope for a crit, but you can't plan around RNG) and while shields being instant is nice, it's also not the huge advantage you think it is, especially considering that shields are supposed to be planned and are something you can cast well in advance.

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Just wanna point that Zoe works on spells, so in theory at least it's notable especially for buffing Pneuma's healing component up to 800p at 25y range. It's actually pretty insane in addition to the spell being multifunctional at its core.

At least that's what I'd use Zoe for instead of shielding, considering shielding has been more on niche side of spectrum in term of usage.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Potencies are all we have to compare them but just by looking at the skills SGE seems to have an edge in a lot of aspects, quick examples are physis vs whispering dawn in which physis is a 20% stronger, the existence of physis 2 and how it buffs ogcds something Sch does not have that early and by when it gets one Sge unlocks a 20% buff too, Zoe is far more versatile than deplo as it not only can be used to put a bigger shield with prognosis than anything Sch can put without relying on buffs and crits but also can be used with pneuma for an 800 potency heal that happens to be dps neutral (and gain in AoE), Haima as a source of single target shielding far more consistent than seraphic veil and Painhaima by its nature of shielding first and healing second has an easier time to not waste potential than Consolation, etc...

Sch shielding also does not have better numbers unless you go to suboptimal routes (basically, recitation and buff it to the extreme), Succor is worth 320 potency shield in EW which is the same as E!Prognosis and both Adlo and E!Diagnosis are clones, difference being that if you dont crit and spread an adlo you'd spread a 540 potency shield vs Zoe + E!Prognosis which is worth 640, Scholar could in theory surpass Sge's numbers if they go full protraction+recitation+fey illum+dissipation but at least 3 of those 4 skills will be used in uptime so unless a cheese strat needs it that would be overkill and poorly efficient and if we take attacks that deal multiple hits panhaima + Zoe E!prognosis alone can be better than anything Sch can throw

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Physis II only works on spells, not abilities. Some SGE skills are more powerful, some SCH skills are more powerful, so there's no clear advantage for SGE.

If you have to keep moving the goalposts to prove that SCH is not a better shield healer (or that it has better better numbers, at least), you are not helping your case. Shielding could already be considered "suboptimal" and having to use skills to enhance your skills doesn't take anything away from SCH's power (besides, SGE does the same with Zoe)

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Originally Posted by rewd

Physis II only works on spells, not abilities. Some SGE skills are more powerful, some SCH skills are more powerful, so there's no clear advantage for SGE.

If you have to keep moving the goalposts to prove that SCH is not a better shield healer (or that it has better better numbers, at least), you are not helping your case. Shielding could already be considered "suboptimal" and having to use skills to enhance your skills doesn't take anything away from SCH's power (besides, SGE does the same with Zoe)

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True about physis 2, I'll edit that

However I dont think I'm moving goalposts about Sch, Im just analyzing it case to case. GCD wise Sch has to use more key tools that harm its dps or leave it with less optimal heals than Sge to matchup and surpass its shielding potential, at a base level of no buffs both shield the same (320 potency shield) however Sge's shield is instacast while Sch one needs to be casted, with "low" investment Sge takes the crown as ZoE+E!Prognosis is better of an AoE Shield than the biggest Shield Sch can use with the same level of investment Deplo+Adlo (640 potency shield vs 540) potency, if we go into higher investment then Sch becomes better gcd wise for a single hit but keeps being worse at multihits even with consolation because the nature of how haima and panhaima works. When the two are almost identical at 0 investement, Sage is stronger at low investment (the 2 more common cases) and only at an investment so high it becomes suboptimal outside stuff like cheese strats and only if there is no multihits Sch takes the lead I dont think we have the ground to say Sch is a better shielder, especially when efficiency wise Sge has better tools for the shielding.

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Some SGE skills are more powerful, some SCH skills are more powerful, so there's no clear advantage for SGE.

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I disagree, Sch has neat tools and high heal power but in raw healing capabilities doesn't have as many as Sge giving the latter an edge and if we consider efficiency is not even a contest (Sch has 9 ogcd heals + embrace and out of those 9 4 are dps losses unless recitation is used, in which case only 2 vs Sge which has 11 dps neutral heals + kardia), for every heal or cooldown Sch has and its stronger you can name one in Sge's toolkit that is either stronger than its Sch counterpart, more efficient and/or more versatile, quick examples physis vs whispering dawn, Zoe vs Deplo, all the non recitation aetherflow heals vs addersgall heals...

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

True about physis 2, I'll edit that

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This would be a perfectly valid point if SCH needed more tools to match what SGE does, but SCH can use more tools and achieve greater results. You are also ignoring the fact that Zoe's "versatility" is actually a problem, because Deployment will always be available when you need it, but Zoe has other uses, and one (Pneuma) happens to be an amazing one. You are talking about DPS losses, efficiency and subotimal usages, but SGE is the healer that is hurt the most by giving up a damage GCD (330 DPS loss and 170 heal loss) and you are giving up a zoe'd Pneuma which might have important consequences.

On the other hand, SCH has four different skills it can use to boost shields, which means you don't even have to necessarily use Recitation and that something is always available.

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I disagree, Sch has neat tools and high heal power but in raw healing capabilities doesn't have as many as Sge giving the latter an edge and if we consider efficiency is not even a contest (Sch has 9 ogcd heals + embrace and out of those 9 4 are dps losses unless recitation is used, in which case only 2 vs Sge which has 11 dps neutral heals + kardia), for every heal or cooldown Sch has and its stronger you can name one in Sge's toolkit that is either stronger than its Sch counterpart, more efficient and/or more versatile, quick examples physis vs whispering dawn, Zoe vs Deplo, all the non recitation aetherflow heals vs addersgall heals...

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SGE is more efficient (but this was never the topic), but it does not have higher raw healing capabilities, especially considering how Addersgall works, which gives less flexibility than Aetherflow.

Dawn is less powerful than Physis, but more flexible because it can reach people SGE can't reach. Blessing is on paper stronger than Holos but it will probably end up having the same potency because of pet scaling (unless it is even closer to 1:1 than it seems now). Still, Blessing is again more flexible because of the fairy. Then we can compare Lustrate and Druochole which are the same skill, but SCH can spam then back to back for some quick spot healing, something SGE can't do unless you store 3 stacks of Addersgall, so less flexibility again. Seraph has more potency than Panhaima (and this is without counting Seraphic Veil). Fey Union only needs 3 ticks to have more potency than Haima (if we want to compare them because level 70 skills). If you want to compare it to Soteria, Union is way, way more flexible. Even when comparing their ST buffs, Protraction is way more flexible/versatile than Krasis. They both increase healing potency (Krasis being more powerful at this), but Protraction also has the cool implication of letting SCH enhance other people's shields (Shake it off, The blackest night, Divine Veil, Celestial Intersection), further cementing it as the better shield healer.

I am not toouch of an accom

Ugh... I hit the wrong button on my phone. Please ignore.

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Originally Posted by rewd

On the other hand, SCH has four different skills it can use to boost shields.

Protraction also has the cool implication of letting SCH enhance other people's shields (Shake it off, The blackest night, Divine Veil, Celestial Intersection)

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Please specify which 4 ways SCH can augment their own shields. The only abilities that they have that actually augment healing are Illumination and Protraction. Recitation guarantees a Crit, (though recitation on Excog or Indom is favorable in nearly every scenario)
Seraph adds an additional shield, so I assume those 4 methods are what you refer to.

SGE has Physis II and Krasis, with both options having higher healing augmentation, albeit a longer CD on Physis II. They have Haima and Panhaima for single target and AoE situations. And of course they have Zoe (in a perfect setting, Zoe would be used with every Pneuma, though this may not be the case). By that logic, SGE has 5 methods of boosting shields.

Also: All of your examples are correct, except Celestial Intersection, which is not affected by the maximum HP of the target (Essential Dignity and Divine Benison do not work this way either). If you are referring to the increase in healing potency of those abilities, Krasis would be more effective for this purpose, specifically with Co-Healer abilities.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

Please specify which 4 ways SCH can augment their own shields. The only abilities that they have that actually augment healing are Illumination and Protraction. Recitation guarantees a Crit, (though recitation on Excog or Indom is favorable in nearly every scenario)
Seraph adds an additional shield, so I assume those 4 methods are what you refer to.

SGE has Physis II and Krasis, with both options having higher healing augmentation, albeit a longer CD on Physis II. They have Haima and Panhaima for single target and AoE situations. And of course they have Zoe (in a perfect setting, Zoe would be used with every Pneuma, though this may not be the case). By that logic, SGE has 5 methods of boosting shields.

Also: All of your examples are correct, except Celestial Intersection, which is not affected by the maximum HP of the target (Essential Dignity and Divine Benison do not work this way either). If you are referring to the increase in healing potency of those abilities, Krasis would be more effective for this purpose, specifically with Co-Healer abilities.

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Illumination, Protraction, Recitation and Dissipation. Recitation forces a crit and the other 3 skills directly augment the healing potency of your Adlo.

Krasis doesn't work for AoE shields (because unlike SCH you can't deploy a ST shield) but good catch on Physis II, I forgot that one.

The example about Intersection is correct and you already said yourself why so there's no need to explain. We are talking about shields and flexibility, so although Krasis is better when paired with CI specifically, Protraction has the big added benefit of working with CI and shields like Shake and Veil.

Edit: It should already be clear, but that wasn't the logic used (and I don't know why would you think so) so Consolation or Pan-Haima are irrelevant in this context.

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Originally Posted by rewd

Illumination, Protraction, Recitation and Dissipation.

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Ah Yes, Dissipation, the skill that I use to augment my healing GCDs by crippling my HPS for 30 seconds. I am all about the sheer amount of anti-synergy in SCHs kit. I can count on one hand the number of times I have used Dissipation for the purpose of larger shield GCDs. None the less, I suppose that counts...

But that just means both SGE and SCH have 5 forms of shielding augmentation. SCH may have Deploy, but they also retain their absolutely horrid GCD sustain. In terms of potential Burst Healing and Sustained GCD Healing, SGE is the clear winner. This isn't necessarily an issue, since SGE and SCH branch off into Pure Healing/Damage and Extra Utility respectively.

Back to the very original comment that I made regarding healer meta at the start of the expansion, I believe SGE will be favorable due it's prog friendly kit and high damage output. Crit buffs at the start of the expansion see much less value, dampening Chain Stratagems impact. Unless Expedient becomes this godly CD (which it very well may), I see SGE having the edge over SCH.

Being better at shields and mitigation when item level makes them optional means they’re useless edges. Arguing about Sage vs Scholar is like arguing about Eos vs Selene. Giving yourself and your cohealer more free throughput especially at the rate of control and flexibility Physis II, Pneuma, Haima, Panhaima, and Cardia have beats everything the fairy can do combined. Chain, Expedient and Baby Thrill doesn’t make up for that. Sage is going to be the strongest healer we’ve had to date. It’s AST vs SCH for second place, and self aware WHM mains crying in a corner.

I think the meta will be: AST/SCH

My reasoning: Both buff raid damage while the other two don't.

Factors that might subvert my prediction: People playing what they think is cool and SCH looks boring.

Meta:

Savage Tier: At beginn WHM/SGE later AST/SGE or AST/SCH depends on how the raid design will be.
My reasoning: No optimatited fight, Gear scaling (Better melds like DH/Crit builds etc), Weaker heals (wich require add CGD Heals). I can't really think how forgiving (like movement) SGE will be but i think more then SCH so i put him in favor here.

Ultimate: WHM/SGE
Same as above just that later can be anything.

4-Man Content: WHM/SGE
Special Content (Like DRS or Any Content with insane scaling): WHM/SGE

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Originally Posted by Mirico

I think the meta will be: AST/SCH

My reasoning: Both buff raid damage while the other two don't.

Factors that might subvert my prediction: People playing what they think is cool and SCH looks boring.

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SCH may look boring but SMN is new and spicy. I think a lot of people may level their SCH "first" to get a crack at SMN

AST/SCH has the most buffs and raid DPS utility as a result. If AST is tuned correctly to not be underpowered, AST/SCH will be "meta", though exchanging a WHM for AST will also be functional and WHM will be meta for progression as well as probably the go-to healer for when your party is ready to try for solo heal clears.

Sage is the one I'm not sure about. It seems to largely mirror SCH's kit, but I'm not sure it has as much utility. It will probably be a bit easier to play, which might make WHM/SGE your prog mega, but it's hard to say right now if it will be in practice or not.

WHM will still probably be the most common healer played and the easiest/most approachable, though there will likely be a lot of Sages for people that want to pick up healer but don't want to go through 60-90 levels.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

WHM will be meta for progression as well as probably the go-to healer for when your party is ready to try for solo heal clears.

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WHM has historically struggled with solo heals in Savage and Ultimate thanks to lacking group mitigation options. AST will continue to be the leader here thanks to Neutral sect and a mighty MP economy.

My Prediction: AST/SGE

My Reasoning: Both of these classes have access to almost all of their healing abilities without a DPS cost. There's a clear gap in high-end content where the AST does 30 to 50% more healing than their WHM or SCH counterpart simply due to the fact that it costs the AST nothing. Sage will definitely bring a lot more healing to the table with Addersgall being incentivized rather than discouraged like Aetherflow. Especially with the rumors that healing is going to be required more frequently in Endwalker.

Additional Reasoning: With the overall damage reduction for healers' damaging spells, the buffs of Divination and Chain Stratagem have a lot to make up for. Dosis does 10.6% more damage than the Broil. Chain Stratagem only accounts for ~10% of the Scholars overall rDPS. It is not safe to assume that the buffing healers will get a spot in the meta. I honestly expect to see the rDPS of the healers more balanced than ever before.

What could upset my prediction: Stat Squish's effect on Critical Hits. If Crits are even better than before, the rDPS from Chain Stratagem will outweigh the personal DPS of Sage.

PLD and War will be the new healing Meta so real healers can dps more!

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Originally Posted by Hammerhorn

PLD and War will be the new healing Meta so real healers can dps more!

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Well played…. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hammerhorn

PLD and War will be the new healing Meta so real healers can dps more!

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And let me tank with my new main MNK

Judging from the job guides, I'm going to suspect it'll be AST/SGE.