What's the Healer rush?

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Originally Posted by True-to-Caesar

I started 3 months ago, in a few occasions I had a healer or even DPS rushing ahead. But it’s genuinely a stupid move because if you’re trying to pull multiple packs, you need to get that first aggro, that first AoE right.

In my case those doing this were mentors, so yea I’m starting to understand where to meme came from.

Having DPS classes with great AoE and burst make the whole thing easier too, in my experience the smoothest run was with a ninja and machinist.

You also don’t know how the healer plays, so best thing is pull 2 pack and see how it goes from there.

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What meme? Most healer mentors are not even DPSing properly let alone rushing sprout tanks.

Also, you don't need to get the first AoE right, just self-heal and all mobs are going to be targeting you. GNB has Aurora, WAR has Equilibrium, PLD has Clemency, Dark Knight has a barrier, and Abyssal Drain. All mobs will be targeting you once you self-heal with Stance on. All you need to do as a tank is press W and move. You should start worrying about getting AoE right after you have stopped pulling.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

What meme? Most healer mentors are not even DPSing properly let alone rushing sprout tanks.

Also, you don't need to get the first AoE right, just self-heal and all mobs are going to be targeting you. GNB has Aurora, WAR has Equilibrium, PLD has Clemency, Dark Knight has a barrier, and Abyssal Drain. All mobs will be targeting you once you self-heal with Stance on. All you need to do as a tank is press W and move. You should start worrying about getting AoE right after you have stopped pulling.

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One or two auto attacks on another player also arent going to kill them either. Everyone can help out a tank by stacking up with them in case they happen to have aggro on a mob or two.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

30 min is BS, sorry. Just pure hyperbole.

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you know what's BS? this attitude that's plaguing the forums and other communities about this, and, hell, other non-MMO games even
consider yourself lucky if you haven't experienced those, but 30 (sometims even 60 or more ;)) minute dungeon runs do exist and, no matter how many times posts like yours try to discredit other posters' experiences as made up lies, some players are just THAT bad
of course these are always outliers even for a DF run but literally no one says that those 30 minute (or more) dungeons are the norm anywhere, not even in the most toxic reddit/4chan threads
hell, recently I had a 35 minute run of heroes gauntlet where I single-handedly carried the whole run by doing more than half the party damage alone because I was too stubborn/trusting to leave after the first freaking pull took way and I mean wayyyy too long even for a random DF run
I've also had multiple WoD runs that took an hour or more because people just refused to DPS, do mechs or, well, do anything, but is that the norm? no, but it happened
stop trying to invalidate the experiences other players have had in this game and accuse them of lying

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

Firstly let me say I've come from WoW so I'm used to a M+ environment where it's all about killing everything as fast as you can chain pulling ect

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It was the same for me. I tanked exclusively in WoW, did a lot of high keys and I was very used to blitzing through dungeons at high speed. I don't go slow when I tank. FF14 however is something different entirely. In a lot of cases it's perfectly fine and your group is happy, but then from time to time you get that group that is literally just there to try and outspeed you so they can Rescue or blame you. If you complain, you're the bad guy for having a "tank ego" and the forums will rant about slow pulling tanks and how you deserve it, despite the fact you were cutting a fast pace. It's extremely rare that I see an actual slow tank, but I've seen a fair share of "go go go" groups in runs that are proceeding quickly. Meanwhile no one bats an eyelid at the healbot or the dps doing half the damage they should be.

I just quit running random dungeons on tank. Full stop. I wasn't wanted, so I don't play the role in DF. FF14 has a wonderful community in many ways, but they treat tanks terribly. In ff14 the tank is just the group slave, a weak dps sweeping brush for mobs.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

30 min is BS, sorry. Just pure hyperbole.

When I heal, and the tank goes wall to wall, but the DPS can't get stuff killed in time, eventually, I'll run out of mana/instants, too, especially when coupled with a rather weak tank.
A group consists of four players, not the one bored guy who's been around for longer than is good for one's psyche.

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But guess what? Those kind of runs in fact do exist.

How? Take at least 2 or 3 underperforming players---single targeting DPS, netflix healer, unga bunga single pulling tank, auto attacking BRD, ice mage, mudraless NIN, freestyle SAM---you name it. Shove them all in a single run. Suddenly all these 30m 'nightmares' are actually a real thing. Of course one would ask: what are the odds of having 3 of these kind of players matched into one single run? Pretty low perhaps. But that's the point: it's just quite uncommon occurrence amongst many other mediocre/average DF runs; it's not the norm.

I had terrible groups, where I basically carried the run as healer, and none of them took 30 minutes.

But that's what's to be expected on these forums, melodrama and hyperbole.

As if Yoshi-P read this and went to work on wish fulfilment immediately.

I am pretty much done with xiv because of the way classes are designed. I have mained a tank for 3 years and if you get a healer who actually does their job you're expected to feel grateful for it. Healers are whiners, pull all the time, ruin what could be easy runs and its all because of bad game design. Healers in xiv are toxic and they blow smoke up each other's asses which breeds more toxicity. The never ending boring homogenization of this game is also a massive problem.

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Originally Posted by RinaB

I am pretty much done with xiv because of the way classes are designed. I have mained a tank for 3 years and if you get a healer who actually does their job you're expected to feel grateful for it. Healers are whiners, pull all the time, ruin what could be easy runs and its all because of bad game design. Healers in xiv are toxic and they blow smoke up each other's asses which breeds more toxicity. The never ending boring homogenization of this game is also a massive problem.

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Other people can only pull what you havent already, if you've been playing tank for 3 years and people still have to pull for you that sounds like you are still just single pulling at this point and that would be pretty sad.

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

So why is it with healers you're in such a god damn rush?

I kinda feel it's such a different attitude compared to everything else I've experience from the FF community.

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Id say level a healer and find out yourself why we tell you to pick up more.

You might have a whole array of button to press when tanking or dpsing but if the only three attacks you have is a dot, single target and an aoe attack. And no group damage to heal you want a little action too.

If your healer says to pick up more its not cause they wanna go go go or maybe a little but also because they wanna have something to do too instead of press 1 button over and over.

What in the name of Hydaelyn are all these toxic replies? Seriously???
No. All of y'all got bad takes that make the game less fun for new players.
When you, a new player, come into a dungeon and tell people 'Hey, it's my first time in here.' that's where the other players need to accommodate YOU. DO NOT 'pull more' just because a healer is bored. Healer bored? They have DPS abilities, they can use those. DO NOT leave your comfort zone until you're ready. I have a zero tolerance policy for people who pull when I'm tanking. If you want to pull the mobs, be the tank. Plain and simple. I've literally stood back and watched a MCH die after they pulled a ton of stuff. I didn't use AoE while killing what went on the healer because of fairy aggro. Healer dismissed their fairy. The other DPS also stood back. We all watched this guy run around me in a panic until he died. Then I turned my Grit back on, picked up the trash, and went about my tanky business. Shocker, he didn't pull for me again.
I mained a healer last expansion when I first started playing, and I also main a healer in WoW. The mentality XIV healers seem to have is toxic. I encourage you to call it out. When a dps or healer decide to pull, that's when they need to learn to tank. We all have roles for a reason. When I first started playing I got yelled at a LOT by DPS because I wasn't DPSing as a WHM. Luckily my friend tanked every dungeon for me and is a mentor, so he told them to shut up and let me figure it out at my own pace. Now I DPS and heal just fine because I was allowed to go at my own pace.
I'd gladly heal the rest of your dungeons if needed, just so you can have an enjoyable experience and learn at your own pace.

Happy travels!

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Originally Posted by Crorinu

What in the name of Hydaelyn are all these toxic replies? Seriously???
No. All of y'all got bad takes that make the game less fun for new players.
When you, a new player, come into a dungeon and tell people 'Hey, it's my first time in here.' that's where the other players need to accommodate YOU. DO NOT 'pull more' just because a healer is bored. Healer bored? They have DPS abilities, they can use those. DO NOT leave your comfort zone until you're ready. I have a zero tolerance policy for people who pull when I'm tanking. If you want to pull the mobs, be the tank. Plain and simple. I've literally stood back and watched a MCH die after they pulled a ton of stuff. I didn't use AoE while killing what went on the healer because of fairy aggro. Healer dismissed their fairy. The other DPS also stood back. We all watched this guy run around me in a panic until he died. Then I turned my Grit back on, picked up the trash, and went about my tanky business. Shocker, he didn't pull for me again.
I mained a healer last expansion when I first started playing, and I also main a healer in WoW. The mentality XIV healers seem to have is toxic. I encourage you to call it out. When a dps or healer decide to pull, that's when they need to learn to tank. We all have roles for a reason. When I first started playing I got yelled at a LOT by DPS because I wasn't DPSing as a WHM. Luckily my friend tanked every dungeon for me and is a mentor, so he told them to shut up and let me figure it out at my own pace. Now I DPS and heal just fine because I was allowed to go at my own pace.
I'd gladly heal the rest of your dungeons if needed, just so you can have an enjoyable experience and learn at your own pace.

Happy travels!

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Being new to a dungeon is no excuse to RP as sandbag. Dungeon mobs are just the same everywhere. All tanks have to do is aoe and occasionally push a mitigation button. I hate how some people in this thread act like new players just do not have a brain at all and that just hitting their two part aoe combo is too far advanced for them. You learn nothing by single pulling, you arent even needed for single pulling and if you are past the first few dungeons you should start to learn that. Your behavior encourages bad play and you are denying new people their chance to learn. That's really bad.

You literally admit to griefing in this post, I hope your ego is proud of you.

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Originally Posted by Crorinu

What in the name of Hydaelyn are all these toxic replies? Seriously???
No. All of y'all got bad takes that make the game less fun for new players.
When you, a new player, come into a dungeon and tell people 'Hey, it's my first time in here.' that's where the other players need to accommodate YOU. DO NOT 'pull more' just because a healer is bored. Healer bored? They have DPS abilities, they can use those. DO NOT leave your comfort zone until you're ready. I have a zero tolerance policy for people who pull when I'm tanking. If you want to pull the mobs, be the tank. Plain and simple. I've literally stood back and watched a MCH die after they pulled a ton of stuff. I didn't use AoE while killing what went on the healer because of fairy aggro. Healer dismissed their fairy. The other DPS also stood back. We all watched this guy run around me in a panic until he died. Then I turned my Grit back on, picked up the trash, and went about my tanky business. Shocker, he didn't pull for me again.
I mained a healer last expansion when I first started playing, and I also main a healer in WoW. The mentality XIV healers seem to have is toxic. I encourage you to call it out. When a dps or healer decide to pull, that's when they need to learn to tank. We all have roles for a reason. When I first started playing I got yelled at a LOT by DPS because I wasn't DPSing as a WHM. Luckily my friend tanked every dungeon for me and is a mentor, so he told them to shut up and let me figure it out at my own pace. Now I DPS and heal just fine because I was allowed to go at my own pace.
I'd gladly heal the rest of your dungeons if needed, just so you can have an enjoyable experience and learn at your own pace.

Happy travels!

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The funny thing is, some of these people are literally like 'tank do your job' while they insist on interfering with the tanks job.. a job that includes setting the pace, tank sets the pace, not the DPS, not the healer, the tank. Their job is to pull and to decide how much to pull, thus setting the pace of the dungeon.

If you want it faster as a healer.. communicate, tell the tank you're more than comfortable with bigger pulls.. good chance is that 9 out of 10 tanks will step it up to accommodate you.. shocking right? Perhaps inquire on whether the tank in question may not be comfortable with a certain dungeon yet and that such may be why they may not be pulling as fast as you think they should. Anything more constructive than 'i no like your pace so now i pull for you, adjust' or even worse, rescue griefing. It's that kind of behavior that ultimately causes the tank to either say or do a 'you pull it, you tank it' that some of you find oh so horrible.

the group sets the pace, but keep saying it's not
also lol @ the person calling others toxic when they refuse to do the most simple job in the entire game because someone else pulled a mob, I hope you're trolling

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

The funny thing is, some of these people are literally like 'tank do your job' while they insist on interfering with the tanks job.. a job that includes setting the pace, tank sets the pace, not the DPS, not the healer, the tank. Their job is to pull and to decide how much to pull, thus setting the pace of the dungeon.

If you want it faster as a healer.. communicate, tell the tank you're more than comfortable with bigger pulls.. good chance is that 9 out of 10 tanks will step it up to accommodate you.. shocking right? Perhaps inquire on whether the tank in question may not be comfortable with a certain dungeon yet and that such may be why they may not be pulling as fast as you think they should. Anything more constructive than 'i no like your pace so now i pull for you, adjust' or even worse, rescue griefing. It's that kind of behavior that ultimately causes the tank to either say or do a 'you pull it, you tank it' that some of you find oh so horrible.

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A DPS' job is to deal damage, more mobs means more damage because AoEs hit more. It is actually everyone's job to deal damage even. The tank is not the one who sets the pace, you are not the leader, you are the meatshield. There is only one way for a tank to not take aggro over something a dps pulls towards them and that is by actively choosing to sandbag the team. If you just keep aoe'ing, you'd automatically take aggro.

You know, reading this thread...

I have, as a Healer player in games - always tried to go damage, always fell back onto support - always assumed that the tank is to set the pace. Tank is the leader, tank will be the one bearing the brunt of all the mobs...

Then over time, I saw more people opining that it is the healer who is to set the pace. The healer will have to be the one healing through unavoidable and avoidable damage, the one to remove debuffs, deal with tankbusters and mistakes, etc. That made sense to me, so I began carrying on with this mindset.

But then in practical play, if the damage dealers cannot dish out enough heat, pulls will last much longer - making the tank strain their resources, making the healer's job long-winded and stressing, and making things taking longer than "necessary". Does that not mean the DD can be said to be setting the pace too?

I think a simple answer to this is that - it is the group that sets the pace. Why does there need be a leader who is solely responsible for deciding what their group is capable of? Why not take a few moments to come together and mull it over? This sounds needlessly complex than it sounds, but even subconsciously a group will realize if a role is not able to cope with the size of a pull, or wants more. I get that the line "communicate!" is cliche, but I really believe every person in the group should recognize they have equal parts to play in the act, and should not falter silent.

I feel if an environment is staggered enough to make anyone too nervous or unwilling to speak out, there is something badly wrong. Additionally the stigma that no one besides the tank/healer/DD is allowed to decide is stifling, and in my opinion should not exist.

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Originally Posted by Crorinu

What in the name of Hydaelyn are all these toxic replies? Seriously???
No. All of y'all got bad takes that make the game less fun for new players.
When you, a new player, come into a dungeon and tell people 'Hey, it's my first time in here.' that's where the other players need to accommodate YOU. DO NOT 'pull more' just because a healer is bored. Healer bored? They have DPS abilities, they can use those. DO NOT leave your comfort zone until you're ready. I have a zero tolerance policy for people who pull when I'm tanking. If you want to pull the mobs, be the tank. Plain and simple. I've literally stood back and watched a MCH die after they pulled a ton of stuff. I didn't use AoE while killing what went on the healer because of fairy aggro. Healer dismissed their fairy. The other DPS also stood back. We all watched this guy run around me in a panic until he died. Then I turned my Grit back on, picked up the trash, and went about my tanky business. Shocker, he didn't pull for me again.
I mained a healer last expansion when I first started playing, and I also main a healer in WoW. The mentality XIV healers seem to have is toxic. I encourage you to call it out. When a dps or healer decide to pull, that's when they need to learn to tank. We all have roles for a reason. When I first started playing I got yelled at a LOT by DPS because I wasn't DPSing as a WHM. Luckily my friend tanked every dungeon for me and is a mentor, so he told them to shut up and let me figure it out at my own pace. Now I DPS and heal just fine because I was allowed to go at my own pace.
I'd gladly heal the rest of your dungeons if needed, just so you can have an enjoyable experience and learn at your own pace.

Happy travels!

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And you make the game less fun for healers. They have the most terrible job, you should be sympathetic right ? This mentality of newcomers first has to stop, especially when the underlying issue is in part that gameplay for healers is terrible at max lvl. You can't satisfy everyone, but you can at least talk it through instead of being so adamant....

"Don't step out of your comfort zone", that's how the game gets bland real quick and makes newcomers quit after a short while.

Oh, and healers have ONE dps ability.
I also stop healing the tank when I see them not tanking after someone else pulled. But guess what, healing is not even needed then, even less when there's one pack ! Dungeons are so faceroll and boring, and infinitely more so as a healer. I'd go as far as to say that in the current context, you're basically telling your healer not to play when you pull one pack.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

the group sets the pace, but keep saying it's not

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I am in agreement that it’s the group’s decision; not the tank’s nor healer’s. It should be the majority decision.

Want some example? I have one from half a year ago: Antitower

I came in as a WHM. We all know how terribly undertuned Antitower is as of now. So obviously both DPS were also hoping for a wall pull.

The GNB is our party? Nope. Sprint does not exist for them. Single pulling, all the way. I was literally ‘dancing’ back and forth like possessed flamingo way ahead the group, telling that I wanted a bigger pull. No response from the GNB. They just slowly take their time mowing the the pack one by one. Eventually one of the DPS runs ahead of me, the second DPS follows suit: yes, they pulled the next pack.

What then? Beyond 1st wall pull after the frog boss, I literally sprinted together with those two DPS, way ahead of the GNB who still ain’t bothered to hit their sprint—I tanked those trash pack as a WHM. Mind you they’re not even a new tank. They have 1 other tank to lv80 in their search info. This persists until the end of the run.

Before exiting the finished run, GNB typed ”Gj all. Except healer.” then immediately bolts out.

Perhaps I could’ve been nicer and just ask politely? Maybe… am I an a$$hat for complying those two DPSes? I don’t think so. This is a team game. The group’s literally split into: (1)three of us who wants a wall pull and (2)The GNB who wants to dilly dallying back there. One of us could’ve just vote dismissed and deny that GNB from clearing their run; pretty sure it would’ve passed very easily too. But such thought never passed our minds until reading their last words.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

One or two auto attacks on another player also arent going to kill them either. Everyone can help out a tank by stacking up with them in case they happen to have aggro on a mob or two.

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Yup, and sadly not many have the will or mind to do that.
When I play on my DPS classes I do because I play GNB most of the time, but pure dps players may not think about stacking up on pulls.

Self healing while moving to get the next pack isn’t going to do anything either, if you didn’t managed to land a hit and the others already started to burst. You waste time getting them all and moving back again to the next pack. While it could have been avoided if people had a tiny bit more patience and awareness.

99% of dungeon party dynamics issues can be solved by just talking it through.
Being passive aggressive never works out.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Anything more constructive than 'i no like your pace so now i pull for you, adjust' or even worse, rescue griefing. It's that kind of behavior that ultimately causes the tank to either say or do a 'you pull it, you tank it' that some of you find oh so horrible.

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Even if you don't like it, this kind of behavior isn't griefing. Griefing is largely determined by the intent of the player; If a players primary goal is to increase the efficiency of the group, it isn't really griefing.

Griefing is when you prioritizing ruining the experience of another player over your or your groups success. If you'd like a great example of genuine griefing, look no further than the very post you quoted:

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Originally Posted by Crorinu

I've literally stood back and watched a MCH die after they pulled a ton of stuff. I didn't use AoE while killing what went on the healer because of fairy aggro. Healer dismissed their fairy. The other DPS also stood back. We all watched this guy run around me in a panic until he died. Then I turned my Grit back on, picked up the trash, and went about my tanky business. Shocker, he didn't pull for me again.

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Of note, it's funny how in this persons totally true story their team is somehow competent enough to wordlessly coordinate griefing another player, and then deftly handle an unexpectedly large pull with a DPS down, but wasn't competent enough to handle actual coordinated large pulls in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Ayche

99% of dungeon party dynamics issues can be solved by just talking it through.
Being passive aggressive never works out.

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You mean people have to actually...communicate to solve their problems? Woah there. Let's not get crazy now.

My first post here - thank you for all the helpful info.
Yesterday was my first time healing Toto-Rak and also for one of the DPS. We both expressed this.
The tank died early in a trash pull as I could not keep up speed-wise. (I'm not good at remembering to use sprint yet). I got nervous and got lost but one of the dps held back so I could get back. The dps always held back a bit after this.
I also had just had an influx of new actions to my hotbars - medica and regen - which I didn't realize had changed my rotation keyboard numbers. I ended up pointing and clicking which I don't prefer.
We continued on and the tank was still way ahead and there are a lot of corners etc so I told him to wait up and he finally started slowly his pace enough for me to keep everyone healed and esuna-ed. There is a lot of poison there. We were fine until the final boss where he also died during the fight and I raised him before it was over.
So yes, I am kind of explain-y here but sometimes needed.
After I said I was doing my best, everything became hunky-dory and I was busy the whole time casting cure and esuna. I threw out as many aeros as I could fit in. The tank even started giving me tips.
So yes, I think in this case the healer did set the pace. But not go-go-go.

Healing in this game isn't all that demanding. Pulling all mobs possible makes the role more enjoyable, and the content faster.

Only made it to page 6. All I can say is I hope I never encounter people in game like I find on these forums.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

That's called 'you pull it, you tank it', perhaps you should stop volunteering to do the tanks job by pulling ahead.. because yes, you are going to get tanks who will happily let you try your hand at being a green tank.

Also, 'ego that needs a reality check', coming from a healer who will pull and dump it on the tank? Pot calling the kettle black?

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''YoU PuLl yOu TaNk!1!'' is the mantra of crappy Tanks worldwide, I used to be guilty of saying it myself in other games when I was younger until I got my head out of my bum and realized that there is no valid reason to actively hinder the group's advance by blatantly letting people die just because they tried to help make things go faster.

Pulling ahead doesn't mean someone is volunteering to do the Tank's job or that they want to be a Green Tank, it simply means they know they and the Tank can handle more than what is currently being pulled, the Tank's job on trash is literally to stand there, hold aggro and hit back, thats it. Making ''dump it on the tank'' seem like a negative thing is also pretty silly, should be grateful the role is made even simpler tbh.

Any diva Tank that would rather practice ''u pull u tank!'' over pressing their one or two buttons to grab aggro shouldn't be playing Tank in group content, especially not with strangers.

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Originally Posted by Crorinu

Masturbatory totally real ''you pull you tank'' story

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Please stop queuing as Tank, thanks.

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Originally Posted by morsdood

''YoU PuLl yOu TaNk!1!'' is the mantra of crappy Tanks worldwide, I used to be guilty of saying it myself in other games when I was younger until I got my head out of my bum and realized that there is no valid reason to actively hinder the group's advance by blatantly letting people die just because they tried to help make things go faster.

Pulling ahead doesn't mean someone is volunteering to do the Tank's job or that they want to be a Green Tank, it simply means they know they and the Tank can handle more than what is currently being pulled, the Tank's job on trash is literally to stand there, hold aggro and hit back, thats it. Making ''dump it on the tank'' seem like a negative thing is also pretty silly, should be grateful the role is made even simpler tbh.

Any diva Tank that would rather practice ''u pull u tank!'' over pressing their one or two buttons to grab aggro shouldn't be playing Tank in group content, especially not with strangers.


Please stop queuing as Tank, thanks.

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Having someone pull for you can be annoying. Had it happen a couple of times myself while learning how to tank, though I was working up to pulling bigger than a few groups over time. After a certain point I basically just said screw it and threw myself into the deep end and started pulling big, and probably a lot bigger than I was comfortable with. But it helped. A lot. Even so, it is definitely somewhat rude to pull for a tank, and shows a complete lack of patience. Don't really care who does it. That is a simple fact. Patience is a virtue I wish many people would learn. The "you pull it you tank it" mentality is just petty though. A tank's job is to tank, and that means anything and everything that gets pulled, voluntarily or involuntarily. It doesn't matter who does it or when, it falls on the tank to do their job. Nothing good comes from letting your party members die just because they did something you didn't like. It just slows things down further and leads to some rather tense interactions.

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

That's called 'you pull it, you tank it', perhaps you should stop volunteering to do the tanks job by pulling ahead.. because yes, you are going to get tanks who will happily let you try your hand at being a green tank.

Also, 'ego that needs a reality check', coming from a healer who will pull and dump it on the tank? Pot calling the kettle black?

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"You pull it, you tank it."

Ah, I fondly remember the days when I was a toxic twit, too. Cut it. That idea hasn't been valid in literal decades, and frankly, it was crude in the first place.

This game's dungeons are extremely linear, straight lines with enemies. You can wall to wall pull in minimum gear, and it is objectively faster and easier on everyone's resources. Deal with it.

If someone is pulling for the tank, the tank can take aggro and do their best to use cooldowns and do some aoe. Then, if a wipe happens the tank gets to feel smart and say "See? We need to go slower."

But that's not what usually happens, is it? ;) What happens is that everything dies pretty cleanly and the group proceeds to the next section, thus proving that the tank was being needlessly slow. The tank knows it too and that's why he/she would rather throw a fit in game and on the forums, than grab the ninja pull and take the chance that there might be room to improve.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Healing in this game isn't all that demanding. Pulling all mobs possible makes the role more enjoyable, and the content faster.

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this

i dont get people saying there arent enough healing skills at low lvl to heal several packs... its not needed. just use your spammable heal every 2.5 seconds xD

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

Firstly let me say I've come from WoW so I'm used to a M+ environment where it's all about killing everything as fast as you can chain pulling ect

However when I came to FF and did dungeons almost everyone has been ok at the speed I go through a dungeon at (I'm a warrior) I say almost because on the few occasions that I've had someone in my group who has been the "go go go" guy it's always a healer.

Now I'm not saying I'm without blame in these cases but for the first time I go into a dungeon, I don't know how bad the mobs might hurt ect so I will air on the side of caution and so maybe I do go a little slow. I do always mention if it's the first time I'm doing a dungeon. The last case was the dungeon Doma Castle. The build up to this dungeon was awesome and I was looking forward to it. Instead what I had was a level 80 healer spent the entire dungeon running ahead of the group, barely healing me at all (on one group of mobs letting me die as he didn't cast a single healing spell)

So why is it with healers you're in such a god damn rush?

I kinda feel it's such a different attitude compared to everything else I've experience from the FF community.

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In addition to what others have said, not pulling wall to wall in most dungeons is a real pain for healers because it doesn't line up well with our cooldowns AND we end up having to aoe damage twice as long (which can lead to mana issues).
Pulling wall to wall or pulling single packs, at the end of the day, makes no difference for anyone other than the healer. So overall, double packs should be the default.

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Originally Posted by morsdood

''YoU PuLl yOu TaNk!1!'' is the mantra of crappy Tanks worldwide, I used to be guilty of saying it myself in other games when I was younger until I got my head out of my bum and realized that there is no valid reason to actively hinder the group's advance by blatantly letting people die just because they tried to help make things go faster.

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They're not helping the run go faster, they're being impatient. Unless they communicate and the tank is fine with it, it's just going to cause mess, especially if the tank paused for a few seconds to type or grab something. Both silent sprinting ahead then Rescuing/pulling and "you pull you tank" are toxic behavior. As a group, you either...

a.) Kick the tank for difference of playstyle (majority want to go faster than the current pace the tank is willing to do)
b.) Kick the dps/healer for disrupting the run when the majority are perfectly content with the current pace.

Either way, it's a majority rules.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

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So we've got two options:

1. Take the small chance of disrupting a group if your tank happens to self-destruct over being asked to, over an efficient target count, do the same things he'd already be doing in any pack of 3+ enemies. Do not kick the tank. Do not waste the group's time.
2. Necessarily disrupt the group through comms to make issue of something that can then only be resolved through a kick. Likely kick the tank. Waste the group's time.

How is the first considered the more toxic—or even, ultimately, the more messy?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

So we've got two options:

1. Take the small chance of disrupting a group if your tank happens to self-destruct over being asked to, over an efficient target count, do the same things he'd already be doing in any pack of 3+ enemies. Do not kick the tank. Do not waste the group's time.
2. Necessarily disrupt the group through comms to make issue of something that can then only be resolved through a kick. Likely kick the tank. Waste the group's time.

How is the first considered the more toxic—or even, ultimately, the more messy?

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Furthermore, it isn't as those trash mobs hit hard. A DPS picking up an extra three pack will barely put a dent in them, especially Melee. While you can argue it might be a little annoying if a DPS/Healer runs ahead, it's nowhere near as toxic as someone outright refusing to do their job because their ego was lightly bruised.

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Originally Posted by ArmaDragkun

So why is it with healers you're in such a god damn rush?

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Try healing a dungeon one trash pack at a time.

It's mind numbingly dull.

Not to mention it's fairly common place for healers to level almost entirely via dungeon spam.

I must be the odd one out as a WHM main. I don’t get bored at all with small pulls. I listen to You Tube and podcasts. Don’t remember sh on my account.

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

I must be the odd one out as a WHM main. I don’t get bored at all with small pulls. I listen to You Tube and podcasts. Don’t remember sh on my account.

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"I play a videogame to not play it and instead watch youtube while I press one button every 30 seconds"

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

"I play a videogame to not play it and instead watch youtube while I press one button every 30 seconds"

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Was gunna say...

I don't queue as healer to watch youtube. Not to mention the admission was just circumventing the problem.
You are bored with small pulls that's why you watch youtube, if you weren't watching youtube you would be bored with small pulls, that's why you're watching youtube.

Class isn't boring I watch youtube when I'm there.

I hate the mindset that healers are just a one button job. It's a lot more complicated then that. Also I don't like tanks pulling big groups, mainly because there bad tanks and take a lot of damage and I have to throw everything at them including the kitchen sink to keep them alive and after all that I have no mana and they are already onto the next big pull. Can't you see I have no mana?

Also most tanks think they can handle big groups but then hardly use any mitigating cool downs to help keep them alive. I'm sick of it... I Can see that you are not using your abilitys.. be better tanks!! And maybe then I would not mind the rush.

On a side note i am handicap and have a hard time playing this game as it is. It's hard for me to push a million buttons at one time, but I do my best. Please stop assuming everyone is like you and wants to rush. Maybe ask first?

I honestly think more healers could dps and help kill things faster if the pulling was no so rushed. Thankfully all my healers are 80 so I don't have to go through that hell again till the new healer job arrives.

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Originally Posted by Sagos75

I hate the mindset that healers are just a one button job. It's a lot more complicated then that. Also I don't like tanks pulling big groups, mainly because there bad tanks and take a lot of damage and I have to throw everything at them including the kitchen sink to keep them alive and after all that I have no mana and they are already onto the next big pull. Can't you see I have no mana?

Also most tanks think they can handle big groups but then hardly use any mitigating cool downs to help keep them alive. I'm sick of it... I Can see that you are not using your abilitys.. be better tanks!! And maybe then I would not mind the rush.

On a side note i am handicap and have a hard time playing this game as it is. It's hard for me to push a million buttons at one time, but I do my best. Please stop assuming everyone is like you and wants to rush. Maybe ask first?

I honestly think more healers could dps and help kill things faster if the pulling was no so rushed. Thankfully all my healers are 80 so I don't have to go through that hell again till the new healer job arrives.

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You only have healers leveled to 80, presumably through dungeons and it doesn't look like you've even done normal raids and you're going onto leveling another role.
There are bad tanks in the game but I have a fairly good guess most of your problems come from you not so much the tanks because the only class that should ever run out of mana from pulls when decently played is SCH on the chaddest of pulls.
Also if you don't like throwing the kitchen sink at the tank in dungeons then you honestly probably just don't like healing in general. For me healing is fun because I'm being forced to heal that's why I picked healer.

It would be faster to wall2wall and have you only heal than it would be to single pull and have you only do damage.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Having someone pull for you can be annoying. Had it happen a couple of times myself while learning how to tank, though I was working up to pulling bigger than a few groups over time..

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Pretty much the reason I have all tanks at 80 for the amaro but didn't bother learning how to play them properly. I'd be in Copperbell, tell the team I'm still getting it all under my belt and intentionally sticking to low dungeons to practice, and still get healers and dps running ahead and dumping more on me. So I noped out. Leveled with like MSQ and Deep Dungeon and other non-dungeon methods. Which was a shame for me, because I loved my Protection Paladin in WoW.