Fix Housing Megathread

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Originally Posted by Viviumm

Honestly with housing they should really keep adding plots.... and I mean weekly or monthly for example in the goblet there's only 25 wards there could be way more... but they should keep housing how it is its what makes it so unique and what makes a lot of people want houses tbh. Also remove relocation because it feels like its really unfair

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Problem with this, is server hardware cost. That's why they are pretty slow on adding new ones until it's really needed.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Problem with this, is server hardware cost. That's why they are pretty slow on adding new ones until it's really needed.

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A couple of things SE should probably do if they are hellbent on keeping supply low:

• End personal house grandfathering
• End shell FC housing

If we are going to forever deal with a limited supply, all players must be restricted to one personal house per server per subscription, and an FC should not be allowed to hold a house if it does not have at least four unique active subscriptions associated with that FC.

The housing supply has to be optimized and fairly distributed and SE must end a player controlling a single ward without paying for a lot of subs to make it work.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

The housing supply has to be optimized and fairly distributed and SE must end a player controlling a single ward without paying for a lot of subs to make it work.

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You have no right to do that, especially for those 2 guys on Mateus
They choose a server where no one want to go there at the time.
They started a project on something that no once cares at the time.
They have the foresight and you don't.

Your subscription never guarantee you a house by default, it is only player self-proclaimed.
You only gain the right to access, it is never 100%.
It is same as you are not guaranteed with Savage Eden drop just because you have a subscription, you worked for it

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

You have no right to do that, especially for those 2 guys on Mateus

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Those two guys on Mateus deserve to have all but one of their personal houses stripped and all of their shell FCs disbanded. If you disagree with that, you are part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

They choose a server where no one want to go there at the time.
They started a project on something that no once cares at the time.

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They had their fun, and it's time for that to end because the needs of the many outweigh the infantile desires of the one (or in this case, two).

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

It is same as you are not guaranteed with Savage Eden drop just because you have a subscription, you worked for it

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Those two are completely incomparable things since there's no limit to the number of Eden Savage drops... but there is a limit to the number of houses. I mean, you can run any instance as many times as you want in a week.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Those two guys on Mateus deserve to have all but one of their personal houses stripped and all of their shell FCs disbanded. If you disagree with that, you are part of the problem.

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Figure out how to give them back the time they spent building that stuff, and then we'll just go ahead and do a refund.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Figure out how to give them back the time they spent building that stuff, and then we'll just go ahead and do a refund.

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Absolutely not. They abused the housing system so they should suffer the consequences - and in this case, get screwed over because of their greed.

I mean, SE isn't going to properly fix the supply issue anytime soon, so the only other option they have is to forcibly release houses on people that are tying up more than their fair share of land.

Don't they have enough... It sure seems square enix would make a lot which could help this matter

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Absolutely not. They abused the housing system so they should suffer the consequences - and in this case, get screwed over because of their greed.

I mean, SE isn't going to properly fix the supply issue anytime soon, so the only other option they have is to forcibly release houses on people that are tying up more than their fair share of land.

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Just refund the price of the houses and if they’ve got too much furniture tied up there well bully for them I guess. At this point I don’t really care too much.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Problem with this, is server hardware cost. That's why they are pretty slow on adding new ones until it's really needed.

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It's not just hardware cost, they also have to arrange for physical space at the facility housing the servers and have technicians available to install the equipment.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

A couple of things SE should probably do if they are hellbent on keeping supply low:

• End personal house grandfathering
• End shell FC housing

If we are going to forever deal with a limited supply, all players must be restricted to one personal house per server per subscription, and an FC should not be allowed to hold a house if it does not have at least four unique active subscriptions associated with that FC.

The housing supply has to be optimized and fairly distributed and SE must end a player controlling a single ward without paying for a lot of subs to make it work.

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I doubt the grandfathered housing amounts to much. There weren't that many players with multiple houses when it went into effect and it's likely some of those houses have since
been relinquished.

The shell FC situation is a much bigger issue. It was nice to hear YoshiP acknowledge during the keynote that RMT and the other housing exploits are a problem they are trying to find ways to address but it was a shame they still wish to avoid an actual solution to the problem in favor of making new band-aids that will still get exploited.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Absolutely not. They abused the housing system <...>

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Gonna go ahead and stop you right there, since you're dead wrong.

Playing a game within the rules of that game isn't abuse.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Absolutely not. They abused the housing system so they should suffer the consequences - and in this case, get screwed over because of their greed.

I mean, SE isn't going to properly fix the supply issue anytime soon, so the only other option they have is to forcibly release houses on people that are tying up more than their fair share of land.

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There was no abuse. They didn't glitch to do this. They just managed to afford several houses. Abuse implies some sort of exploiting.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Gonna go ahead and stop you right there, since you're dead wrong.

<But I'm a hypocrite advocating for further abuse and oppression>

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It is when you're negatively impacting others. And stop trying to defend the indefensible.

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Originally Posted by Arielen

There was no abuse. They didn't glitch to do this. They just managed to afford several houses. Abuse implies some sort of exploiting.

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Given the restrictions, it's pretty clear that they did something SE did not intend them to do, otherwise they wouldn't have felt the need to pen what's on https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ .

You can keep deluding yourself that the restrictions weren't the original SE intention but SE naively thought people wouldn't get greedy and buy up wards then were forced to implement that policy once it became a problem due to lack of supply.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I doubt the grandfathered housing amounts to much. There weren't that many players with multiple houses when it went into effect and it's likely some of those houses have since
been relinquished.

The shell FC situation is a much bigger issue. It was nice to hear YoshiP acknowledge during the keynote that RMT and the other housing exploits are a problem they are trying to find ways to address but it was a shame they still wish to avoid an actual solution to the problem in favor of making new band-aids that will still get exploited.

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Until we have the SE stats (and not some third party site that may have doctored stats), we don't know what percentage of the houses are grandfathered in, what percentage of the FCs are FCs with less than four members (which is how many that's needed to sign it) or how many FCs have less than four active service accounts. I have a strong feeling that if stats of that nature were published we'd probably be shocked at the amount of FC houses that fall into the two buckets I listed, as all of those FC houses should be released back into the pool so a legitimate FC (or another player) can get a house they've been longing for. And while I doubt the grandfathered in houses are as big a chunk as the FC side of things, that's also something that should have never been allowed to exist in the first place, and SE should correct that mistake as I imagine SE naively thought most players would only roll one character, so there'd only ever need to be one personal house per server per account... and history has shown that not to be the case.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

It is when you're negatively impacting others.

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Abuse implies broken rules. So no, it's not.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Abuse implies broken rules. So no, it's not.

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In this case, yes it is. Stop defending the indefensible obscene display of vulgar greed that flies in the face of the intentions of SE with housing, which has also bred MANY RMT issues.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

In this case, yes it is. Stop defending the indefensible obscene display <hysteria>

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Sure. As soon as you stop acting like your "headcanon housing rules" apply to the player base at large.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Sure. As soon as you stop <presenting your perfectly logical and reasonable arguments>.

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Ok... so why did SE write the restrictions listed at https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ ?

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Ok... so why did SE write the restrictions listed at https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ ?

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Those were implemented at some point during Stormblood. The people who bought tons of houses and got grandfathered in did so before these restrictions were implemented.

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Originally Posted by Arielen

Those were implemented at some point during Stormblood. The people who bought tons of houses and got grandfathered in did so before these restrictions were implemented.

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And that was a mistake on SE's part that should come to a (very long overdue) end... especially since SE is not properly addressing the supply issue.

Purchasing a number of houses, as much as it's super greedy and shouldn't be allowed in the first instance, was not the player's fault, but the developers.

Clarify your language about abuse. The player did not abuse what they were able to do, with the sheer amount of gil they had. That. Is. Not. Abuse.

The developer of the game not fixing it afterwards, That could be classed as a type of abuse.

Such arrangements are known as Grandfathering. It would have been better for Square to advise players to pick one property to keep, reimburse with their made up gil purchase for the rest, and put the others back into circulation.

It is an abuse to keep the status quo and not change it, I agree on THAT point alone.

People bought houses because they couldn't share them with alts. They still can't. It was allowed at the time and in many cases housing wards sat open with many houses going unclaimed for months. The team recognized that and they weren't going to penalize people who simply followed the rules and did what was permitted at the time.

Changing the rules does not make those people evil and they shouldn't lose what they earned.

Some will continually want to take away from others but the team has made that decision to grandfather and they're not about to change their minds. It doesn't matter how many times some come here and say they should they aren't going to.

Current rules also allow users to purchase housing on other servers as well. One FC and one personal house. If those rules were to change later to one house per account those following the rules now shouldn't have to pay or be demonized because they elected to do what is permitted. Changing rules should and will affect future purchases just like now an alt cannot buy a house if there is one character on that account who owns one on that server.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Ok... so why did SE write the restrictions <in 2018>

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Because they recognized the need for change.

Guess we need a calendar to go with that dictionary. The restrictions you link took effect February 2018. The announcement was very specific that the rules were not retroactive, meaning that anyone who already had alt-character housing was keeping it. I get that you disagree with the decision, but people smarter than you who work for SE are the ones who made it.

OVERHAUL the placement. Have the ability to raise and lift without having to use the float trick, easier way to float items through floors and place windows and objects onto EVERYTHING if the option is picked like the rotate/grid button. Housing instances + what we currently have. Instances would eliminate botting with houses and whales buying multiple houses on different accounts. Much like how apartments work but with housing costs but in an instance.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Because they recognized the need for change <and I can't admit that my position is wrong>

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Yeah, I agree with that.

You want to keep sock-puppeting me and argue against whatever you think I'm saying, I'll keep returning the favor because a dishonest person like you isn't worth the time it takes to type this response.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

People bought houses because they couldn't share them with alts. They still can't.

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And that's something that SE should definitely change and allow a port to each personal house on the same account on the same server. I imagine that once that happens, some of the grandfathered in houses would be consolidated - especially if SE gave the houses storage that the alts could share and a way to transfer items (and gil) between the alts and main.

This is something LotRO did from the get-go, and that MMO housing largely worked for the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

It was allowed at the time and in many cases housing wards sat open with many houses going unclaimed for months.

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That was tied to the fact that we had sufficient supply for the population. At the current point in time, we're at the exact opposite issue where there's a housing shortage and the players that have more than one personal house per server per account are now hogging more than their fair share of resources. SE should focus first on incentives to get them to release their houses, then forcibly release the houses because that policy makes sense given the significantly larger population. That said, the shell FCs all need to die, as that's definitely an aggravating factor here.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Current rules also allow users to purchase housing on other servers as well. One FC and one personal house. If those rules were to change later to one house per account those following the rules now shouldn't have to pay or be demonized because they elected to do what is permitted. Changing rules should and will affect future purchases just like now an alt cannot buy a house if there is one character on that account who owns one on that server.

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Changing the rules and then enforcing the changes makes everyone equal. We should be striving for housing equality here, should we not?

Rule changes are never retroactive; they only ever take effect from the date the rule is introduced. Retroactive rule changes that would punish people in the past for breaking a rule that didn't even exist at the time would be total chaos. People with several personals or several fc houses under the same fc aren't breaking any rules unless they find a way to get around the cap so that they can get several personals or several houses under the same FC, which would require actual exploiting.

Retroactively applied rules wouldn't only affect housing. It would affect any element of the terms of service...treating people who didn't exploit as exploiters is wrong.

Imagine if they straight up banned all swearing. And by all swearing I mean targeted or otherwise, so any f-bombs dropped regardless of context would get someone warned and/or suspended. Retroactive application of that rule would get a ton of people essentially randomly banned.

Frankly, what's really inappropriate is this constant badgering about people with grandfathered houses which has become witch hunting leading into harassment.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

a dishonest person

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You say people playing the game are breaking rules. I say they plainly aren't. You decide that's grounds for personal insults?

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Yeah, I agree with that.

You want to keep sock-puppeting me and argue against whatever you think I'm saying, I'll keep returning the favor because a dishonest person like you isn't worth the time it takes to type this response.

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For someone so sensitive about the subject of harassment, you certainly love doing it to others.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

And that's something that SE should definitely change

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They don't need to change it they made their decision. Those players played by the rules and the dev team understands that. You definitely don't. You don't make the decisions and your ranting about it continually isn't going to change anything. They did the right thing.

Tell you what report back when you see it in the patch notes but I wouldn't hold your breath.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Those two guys on Mateus deserve to have all but one of their personal houses stripped and all of their shell FCs disbanded. If you disagree with that, you are part of the problem.
They had their fun, and it's time for that to end because the needs of the many outweigh the infantile desires of the one (or in this case, two).

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To be honest, no, you are just witch hunting like a zealot ignoring all senses and logics.
These two players bought these plots when no one wanted them (that is a fact) and they put in time, effort and gils to create a legacy of their own. That shouldn't be taken away just all of sudden community want a house plot.

They are not source of the problem as they follow the rules S/E created and it was SE's mistake because they allow personal housing instead of keep it as FC only. Can you blame S/E? NO you can't You are blinded if you ignored the fact upon until Personal Housing is installed, 2/3 of housing wards are emptied.

On other hand, you are the source of a lot of NA player's living nightmare with that little reclaim timer idea of yours. Not saying it is not an effective method, but it nevertheless is short sighted because SE too didn't expect players will try to camp it 24 hours straight.

This is also why I am not buying any short sighed ideas such as casino, etc.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

You say people playing the game are breaking rules. I say they plainly aren't. You decide that's grounds for personal insults?

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I'm not the one that started sock-puppeting people.

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Originally Posted by Arielen

For someone so sensitive about the subject of harassment, you certainly love doing it to others.

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Sometimes the only way to get someone that likes harassing others to stop is to harass them back so they go "oh, that's not a good idea and I should stop it"

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

They don't need to change it they made their decision. Those players played by the rules and the dev team understands that. You definitely don't. You don't make the decisions and your ranting about it continually isn't going to change anything. They did the right thing.

Tell you what report back when you see it in the patch notes but I wouldn't hold your breath.

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It's still something that needs to change cause (quite honestly) the entire housing system needs an ownership defrag as SE isn't adding more wards anytime soon, so getting ownership optimized to one personal house per server per account and the FC houses to only the legitimate FCs is going to free up houses for others to participate in this system.

Or in other words, the status quo sucks and it needs to change.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

someone that likes harassing others

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Considering I'm the one you're harassing, I'll assume you mean me.

So now you're saying I like harassing people? Look, I don't know what your deal is, but you don't know me, and you need to back off, now. My entire point, my only point, is that no players with alt housing have broken any rules. You're angry because I changed your link to "0<rules posted in 2018>"? The link you posted was literally rules posted in 2018. I don't see how labeling your link instead of including it is dishonest.

So you can either point out where those rules were posted in 2015, or you can accept that the guidelines you're pointing out did not apply to the players you are upset about and drop this.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

I'm not the one that started sock-puppeting people.

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No one is sock puppeting you. You said "What about these rules <link to rules posted in 2018>" and I wrote the link like that instead of including it.

Are you disagreeing that your rules are from 2018 or am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

To be honest, no, you are just witch hunting like a zealot ignoring all senses and logics.

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That's a fancy way of saying "I disagree with you"

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

These two players bought these plots when no one wanted them (that is a fact) and they put in time, effort and gils to create a legacy of their own. That shouldn't be taken away just all of sudden community want a house plot.

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There are no other solutions on the table, and (to be quite honest) they are hogging an entire ward that would let another 20-30 people join in housing. Why should those 20-30 people be locked out because two are being selfish and greedy?

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Can you blame S/E? NO you can't You are blinded if you ignored the fact upon until Personal Housing is installed, 2/3 of housing wards are emptied.

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If that's true, why have I pointed out several things that LotRO has done better than FFXIV in housing?

SE's oversight was that they didn't really take into consideration that people would have alts (which has much less need now that New Game+ is a thing) and they built the entire personal housing around the limited subscription. SE made several mistakes and I have been advocating for changes to the housing system like having all alts on a server get ports to all personal houses on the same server owned by that service account and also housing storage that will allow someone to transfer items between chars on the server. These are two things that LoTRO has had for player housing since it launched many years ago, and it's two things that are long overdue in FFXIV for housing.

While I will be (occasionally) hyperbolic, I have been consistently advocating for positive change to the system.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

On other hand, you are the source of a lot of NA player's living nightmare with that little reclaim timer idea of yours. Not saying it is not an effective method, but it nevertheless is short sighted because SE too didn't expect players will try to camp it 24 hours straight.

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When Yoshi-P indicates that there are RMT issues within housing (largely because of the housing market that existed before it), and they still exist to this day... that idea was not short sighted. SE saw it as an easy way to stop the housing flipping which it does exceedingly well. If you're someone that got burned by it then (quite honestly) you deserved it.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

This is also why I am not buying any short sighed ideas such as casino, etc.

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I fail to see what this has to do with anything.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

No one is sock puppeting you. You said "What about these rules <link to rules posted in 2018>" and I wrote the link like that instead of including it.

Are you disagreeing that your rules are from 2018 or am I missing something?

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Overall, he has a zealot-like hatred towards those 2 on Mateus and weird logic about housing that totally ignore the fact it is impossible for physical servers (supply) to meet rapid growth of playerbase (demand).

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Originally Posted by Catstab

No one is sock puppeting you.

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Yes you are.

When you do anything to edit the quote beyond breaking it into pieces that's sockpuppeting because you are putting words into my mouth that were never spoken and changing what I have said.

Remember the other poster that went ham against me and got banned?

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

weird logic about housing that totally ignore the fact it is impossible for physical servers (supply) to meet rapid growth of playerbase (demand).

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You know that supply issue I keep talking about? That's what you just described.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Yes you are.

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Again, I changed the quote from "Read these rules though http://www.square-enix...."

to "Read these rules though <link to rules from 2018>"

So I did not alter what you said. I have not been dishonest. Your accusations are false.

Anyway back to the topic at hand....

So on top of those rules added in 2018, what changes do you think should be made to the system? Since that's sort of the purpose of this thread.