Endgame content is too stressfull and difficult

What the hell am I even reading? Since when does "I wish this was manageable, rather than a frustrating cycle of imminent failure" = "Give me free stuff"?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...PNG?1307468855

Probably because it's not frustrating to most people. Literally everyone is saying the current tier has been one of the easiest ever and a lot of people are bored with it. If harder content is not for you, then don't do it. There is no reason to dumb it down further because there are other people that cannot do it. And there should be a reward for doing the content, I don't like the idea of taking bis away from savage just to give it away for logging on, savage and ultimate need something to make them worth doing.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

What the hell am I even reading? Since when does "I wish this was manageable, rather than a frustrating cycle of imminent failure" = "Give me free stuff"?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...PNG?1307468855

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Because anything easier than this is bassically free? Maybe not for you and the OP but for a lot of people who actually try to learn the fight and jobs.

I for once clear the 1 to 4 fight in PUG in week 2, only one set or one and half every night and 3 on weekend, albeit i play on jp server which has far more awesome PUG that NA but that's just prove how easy the fight is, it's not the fight that is to blame it's the player mentallity when challenging it that's to blame.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Not sure what you mean... if anyone dies in E6S right now at the normal item levels it is good game. Unless you are being sarcastic? ;p

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My sloppiest clear of E6S has over twelve deaths throughout the party. If you cannot beat the fight with just one, there is an issue somewhere with multiple people's rotations.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

What the hell am I even reading? Since when does "I wish this was manageable, rather than a frustrating cycle of imminent failure" = "Give me free stuff"?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...PNG?1307468855

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You don't want to do the content that rewards the gear? Cool. You don't get the gear. Just get tome gear and upgrade it in 5.3 instead.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Probably because it's not frustrating to most people. Literally everyone is saying the current tier has been one of the easiest ever and a lot of people are bored with it. If harder content is not for you, then don't do it. There is no reason to dumb it down further because there are other people that cannot do it. And there should be a reward for doing the content, I don't like the idea of taking bis away from savage just to give it away for logging on, savage and ultimate need something to make them worth doing.

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That sounds like a load of BS to me. If these fights are so easy, why do I always get stuck with parties who can't do them?

Again this is a case of. "It's easy for me, therefore no one else should find it difficult."

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

That sounds like a load of BS to me. If these fights are so easy, why do I always get stuck with parties who can't do them?

Again this is a case of. "It's easy for me, therefore no one else should find it difficult."

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Just because a good chunk of PF players are incompetent doesn't mean the fights are too difficult, people either make mistakes which cause issues or might just be straight up bad. The general population of the game that *does* this content mutually agrees that this tier is quite easy compared to others.

Savage content is meant for players that have a decent understanding of the game and their job, and can learn mechanics and do them semi-consistently. There is a skill bar for this content. If you can't do it, there's plenty of other content in the game to do. If you *do* want to do it but you're not good enough then there are plenty of methods and resources to get better. Saying savage raiding is too stressful and difficult just because you might not be very good at the game isn't fair to the people that ARE good enough to do this type of content (Ultimate is another extreme but good example for this since it was meant to be challenges for some of the best players in the game). The developers have made savage raiding absurdly more accessible this expansion with the removal of certain skills/debuffs and how much they've simplified the jobs (ESPECIALLY tanks and healers), never minding the relative mechanical ease of most of the fights. To claim that savage must be made even more accessible after everything that was done just because some people aren't good enough at the game is, in my opinion, insulting. It's MEANT to be difficult.

If you want to do savage content join a static and start progressing through the fights. We set up a group 5 weeks ago with all players new to the game, recently got to level 80 and had 480 crafted gear. So far we've cleared E5S, E6S and E7S and are starting to throw ourselves at Shiva (we know this will be tough). We've also had a great time doing it despite some nights being just wipes and feeling like little progress. That's raiding.

Im looking forward to the next fights coming out and being able to figure out the fights before the guides are released (I'm hoping we'll get a few weeks in and guide makers don't just throw them on YouTube the day they are released).

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

That sounds like a load of BS to me. If these fights are so easy, why do I always get stuck with parties who can't do them?

Again this is a case of. "It's easy for me, therefore no one else should find it difficult."

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You have it backwards. You get stuck with parties who can't do it because the current raid tier is relatively easy. It attracts players who don't do their research and aren't trying to play their class properly because it's easy to get hard carried, escpecially right now with so many people outgearing content.
I've often had players in my parties who have several e5-e7 kills with around 3k dps on healer or barely above 10k on dps without dying or tanks happily eating tankbusters raw and doing less dps than mediocre healers. As long as you stay on your feet for some mechanics that requires all 8 to be alive or you have further losses, you can make up for a lot of lacking gameplay.
And that's disappointing. I rarely see enrage wipes even knowing that everyone is doing signifcantly less than they could.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

That sounds like a load of BS to me. If these fights are so easy, why do I always get stuck with parties who can't do them?

Again this is a case of. "It's easy for me, therefore no one else should find it difficult."

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Shadowbringer has brought a lot of new player into this game.
When you're new, you have a lot to learn. Logic.
However, a lot of player realistically aren't ready for savage.
Dev made the first floor accessible to encourage people jumping into raiding. Which leads in some player getting their kills by getting helped by other more experienced player that make up for their lack of knowledge of skill. (meeting the dps checks)
Then, as they progress through turns, dps checks are more tight and definitly need their involment in the party or you won't pass some dps checks and heavy mechanics moment.

Scenario is, savage is availaible once you beat normal. Why not jumping into it right ?
But if the player already struggle to understand what he's doing (its rotation, knowing what skill he has at his disposal like mitigation and support skill), add the mechanic layer onto that and they'll feel lost very quickly. Either they'll mess up their rotation/primary job or they'll fail mechanic.

Savage is "easy".
But for player who already have solid basics of how to play their class and have some knowledge or certain mechanics function.
Any player who barely got to 80 (except if they're extremely fast learner) who jump into savage so quickly will certainly meet a wall. And then it's a 50%/50%. They find a group who can catch up their lack of dps as long as they do mechanic right, or their contribution drag the group progress down.

If players are really interested in Savage and trying some "challenging" content, they should definitly have some self awareness of what their capabilities are, and maybe try a little more dungeon, normal mode and extreme to get used to how the game works. This is the same learning process as a lot of things in life.
Then, we also have player on the other end of the spectrum with lack of confidence in themselves and avoid doing savages fights because they think they're not ready and get anxiety doing it, but that's another topic.


TL;DR : New player/less experienced player may underestimate that savage is a party contribution content and might think they can "just do it" while they're not ready to do it at all. Which lead to think that this is a very hard content while some learning and training might ease a lot of things.
Don't burn steps.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

That sounds like a load of BS to me. If these fights are so easy, why do I always get stuck with parties who can't do them?

Again this is a case of. "It's easy for me, therefore no one else should find it difficult."

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Be careful of what you said, i don't see how you play but i have seen many people who think they play perfectly but infact they distrupt the party by not knowing enough stuff.

Like how a certain positioning can make difference on how the others move etc etc,
This is especially true on e8s, lots of melee blaming the others party member for not able to get pass the mob phase,but infact they using stun before the tank make overall stun time shorter... because of melee stun is shorter and resistance...etc etc

This is especially occurs on people who only play one role.


When you can't win it doubt yourself, you maybe the bad apple that make them fail.

Im gonna go ahead and say as a mentor ive seen better People on low level extremes than in pugs. And yes there is a strong mentality of ill get carried in savage and is especially bad when you try to do a fight that you cant get carried on. And im gonna go ahead and say that these People are the same ones Who think that the People trying Hard for the clear are toxic. Its not a problem of teaching newbies stuff they didnt know or how to improve on their job its the problem of People Who dont give a shit about Hard content thinking that the People wont notice their inexperience, how many times do first times go in to kill parties, or the fight needs you to pop food to survive and they Come with a boiled egg then if you get mad after 2 weeks of prog when they Come with normal unmelded crafters gear theyll say its Just a game bro lol.
Difficulty is the Meat of every game, doom or dmc wouldnt be as fun to perfect if every monster was a dummy with some angry googly eyes on it, and this is something ff14 players need to stop bitching about before every job become literally a 1 button cutscene. You got 99% of the game not needing to think to play it leave the 1% alone the rewards behind are not necessary to anyone but the ultimate community.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

My sloppiest clear of E6S has over twelve deaths throughout the party. If you cannot beat the fight with just one, there is an issue somewhere with multiple people's rotations.

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My first clear of E6S back in Feb with the party all in gear bellow ilvl480 had 3 deaths and we killed it something like 3 mechanics ahead of enrage. If one death is an issue nowadays with all the extra gear, people aren't doing their rotations properly. For sure.

Let me try a different approach here.

Normal Raid/Trial = A forgivable window for learning telegraphed mechanics and ample opportunity to recover from mistakes.

Savage Raid/Ex Trial = A hidden list of hundreds of actions that must be performed in precise order and with perfect positioning. Any mistake by any player results in failure and starting over from the beginning.

I really don't see where I'm wrong for thinking this is too much of a brick wall. It doesn't feel like difficulty, it feels like psychotic fake difficulty.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Let me try a different approach here.

Normal Raid/Trial = A forgivable window for learning telegraphed mechanics and ample opportunity to recover from mistakes.

Savage Raid/Ex Trial = A hidden list of hundreds of actions that must be performed in precise order and with perfect positioning. Any mistake by any player results in failure and starting over from the beginning.

I really don't see where I'm wrong for thinking this is too much of a brick wall. It doesn't feel like difficulty, it feels like psychotic fake difficulty.

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Ex trial...? Okay, you really shouldn't try savage for your own sake... not if you find the current Ex trial is hard, no and i'm not being sarcistic of anything it's just looks like savage isn't the right game for you. You are not missing anything other than dyeable gear and mount and you can get that easily later as time goes on, just do roulletes and maybe Potd or HoH.

Oh and i know you probably never done imd and just read guides and trace but gimmick solving is part of the game. If you don't like it don't do it.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

I really don't see where I'm wrong for thinking this is too much of a brick wall. It doesn't feel like difficulty, it feels like psychotic fake difficulty.

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It's called progging. if you can't handle progging. then don't do it. you learn as you go.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Let me try a different approach here.

Normal Raid/Trial = A forgivable window for learning telegraphed mechanics and ample opportunity to recover from mistakes.

Savage Raid/Ex Trial = A hidden list of hundreds of actions that must be performed in precise order and with perfect positioning. Any mistake by any player results in failure and starting over from the beginning.

I really don't see where I'm wrong for thinking this is too much of a brick wall. It doesn't feel like difficulty, it feels like psychotic fake difficulty.

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Its perfectly fine that you find savage too difficult. Despite the way this tier has been, savage is supposed to be hard. But it does not require perfect positioning and most singular mistakes do not cause the fight to restart outside of very few fringe cases.


Why do you feel that Savage needs to be nerfed, rather than you changing your gameplay or you simply not doing the content? You have the other 99% of content to chew through if Savage and Ultimate don't suit your taste and if you really want the mounts or glamour from Savage, you can simply wait an expansion so you can unsync them.

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Originally Posted by rsod

Endgame content (savages especially) is too difficult and therefore too stressful.
Completion of savages requires multi-hour wiping for a many weeks or even some months, as well as pretty much perfecting rotation, and rotations in FFXIV are very difficult on their own.
This isn't particularly fun, and not everyone is as perfect. Not every human is entitled with enough reaction. Trying for hours every day just to get your bis equipment does not feels right and good.
Moreover, such difficulty leads to difficutly to find people to practice and run dungeons with. If you wasn't lucky to find a group at the beginning of the content - you're pretty much out of it for good.
Something needs to be done about that. Either savage difficulty relaxed a bit, or another source of same bis equipment is needed. Let it be 2 times slower to get than savage's loot, but let it be. For these people, who can't do savages due to time issues, or due to lack of proper reaction and skills, or due to inability to find a group.

I'm sorry for any possible mistakes in text, I'm not native English speaker and my English knowledge is mediocre.

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No one is forcing you. Stop crying

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

I really don't see where I'm wrong

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So i know this is repeating myself a little, but hopefully some of you will forgive me. If every group you are in has an issue, the problem probably isnt everyone else.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Savage Raid/Ex Trial = A hidden list of hundreds of actions that must be performed in precise order and with perfect positioning. Any mistake by any player results in failure and starting over from the beginning.

I really don't see where I'm wrong for thinking this is too much of a brick wall. It doesn't feel like difficulty, it feels like psychotic fake difficulty.

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You're not wrong for having your opinion. It's a brick wall for you. That's fine, everyone has things they're good at and bad at. This is why Normal trials and raids exist and why decent 480 loot is easy to obtain. That's the content aimed towards you.

For others it's not a brick wall. You just need to know your rotation, get the key mechanics right (there certainly aren't "hundreds" of these) and the rest doesn't take perfect positioning and a few deaths are perfectly recoverable. It's not overly complicated for us, just a nice level of challenge to keep us occupied for a patch cycle.

I don't enjoy fishing or PvP or solo PotD runs or sightseeing jump puzzles or so on but I'm certainly not demanding they rip it away from people who love it and change it just for me.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Let me try a different approach here.

Normal Raid/Trial = A forgivable window for learning telegraphed mechanics and ample opportunity to recover from mistakes.

Savage Raid/Ex Trial = A hidden list of hundreds of actions that must be performed in precise order and with perfect positioning. Any mistake by any player results in failure and starting over from the beginning.

I really don't see where I'm wrong for thinking this is too much of a brick wall. It doesn't feel like difficulty, it feels like psychotic fake difficulty.

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You are not wrong, but I don't think problem is Savages. Those are here for engame raiders.
Problem is, that there is nothing IN BETWEEN normals and savages (Ex-trial once in blue moon doesn't count).

There is no content for casual raiders so to speak, no hero dungeons, no nothing.
Its either storymode snoozefest or zen-memory game in Savage.

SE seems to ignore substantial part of PVE playerbase, instead shovering them with various types of farming or metagaming in "different world" (Eureka, endless dungs).
How they never looked at heroic dungeons after 6 years of operation is.. puzzling to say the least.

But they are fixing vanila storytelling - which was so atrocious for so long - so maybe next step can be looking at this (wishful thinking 101).

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Originally Posted by RylaBee

You are not wrong, but I don't think problem is Savages. Those are here for engame raiders.
Problem is, that there is nothing IN BETWEEN normals and savages (Ex-trial once in blue moon doesn't count).

There is no content for casual raiders so to speak, no hero dungeons, no nothing.
Its either storymode snoozefest or zen-memory game in Savage.

SE seems to ignore substantial part of PVE playerbase, instead shovering them with various types of farming or metagaming in "different world" (Eureka, endless dungs).
How they never looked at heroic dungeons after 6 years of operation is.. puzzling to say the least.

But they are fixing vanila storytelling - which was so atrocious for so long - so maybe next step can be looking at this (wishful thinking 101).

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A lack of measured progression really hurts the end game and seeing Squeenix take the opportunity to address that would be very nice.

Sadly they seem to be more interested in catering to the people who scream "GIT GUD!" in my face. >_>

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Originally Posted by RylaBee

You are not wrong, but I don't think problem is Savages. Those are here for engame raiders.
Problem is, that there is nothing IN BETWEEN normals and savages (Ex-trial once in blue moon doesn't count).

There is no content for casual raiders so to speak, no hero dungeons, no nothing.
Its either storymode snoozefest or zen-memory game in Savage.

SE seems to ignore substantial part of PVE playerbase, instead shovering them with various types of farming or metagaming in "different world" (Eureka, endless dungs).
How they never looked at heroic dungeons after 6 years of operation is.. puzzling to say the least.

But they are fixing vanila storytelling - which was so atrocious for so long - so maybe next step can be looking at this (wishful thinking 101).

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While I agree, SE needs to add more endgame content as a whole. A significant reason they've held back is not knowing how to adequately reward said content. Granted, it's on them for making gear such a rigid and boring affair but they aren't going to overhaul it now. So how do you reward Mythic+ type dungeons? If they also drop Savage equivalent then it renders Savage pointless. Why do something harder for an identical reward? The same applies if said gear were equivalent to Normal mode. Now you could go with increments of five—which they technically did with the relic armor. But that severely impacts crafting.

All in all, they need more options to get people to try out this harder content. Unfortunately, the current gear system has painted them into a corner. Something will inevitably lose out to compensate.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

A significant reason they've held back is not knowing how to adequately reward said content. Granted, it's on them for making gear such a rigid and boring affair but they aren't going to overhaul it now. So how do you reward Mythic+ type dungeons?

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Yes the itemization is rigid, but I dont realy see rewards as much problem.

You just give some alternate currency and use it for stuff like tomestone upgrade items, pets, glams, mounts, orchestrions. They dont even need to be all new items. Some can be from previous expansions - just like we are getting for those moogle tomestones.
I think rewards are not blocker for heroic dungeons/raids, its more the fact that it would require some significant resources to develop/polish. Resources that are not spend for Eureka-style content and similar.

PS: Hell, maybe even resources that are now not used at all. This game has huge playerbase on pay-to-play system. I don't realy feel much funds it is pushed back to improve the game. Feels like upkeep, sorry..

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Originally Posted by RylaBee

Yes the itemization is rigid, but I dont realy see rewards as much problem.

You just give some alternate currency and use it for stuff like tomestone upgrade items, pets, glams, mounts, orchestrions. They dont even need to be all new items. Some can be from previous expansions - just like we are getting for those moogle tomestones.
I think rewards are not blocker for heroic dungeons/raids, its more the fact that it would require some significant resources to develop/polish. Resources that are not spend for Eureka-style content and similar.

PS: Hell, maybe even resources that are now not used at all. This game has huge playerbase on pay-to-play system. I don't realy feel much funds it is pushed back to improve the game. Feels like upkeep, sorry..

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the problem is if the carrot being dangled isn't enticing enough it will be dead content on arrival.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

A lack of measured progression really hurts the end game and seeing Squeenix take the opportunity to address that would be very nice.

Sadly they seem to be more interested in catering to the people who scream "GIT GUD!" in my face. >_>

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They "cater" to these players because you really do have to get good..? lol (it can also be argued that the devs already cater to casual players but... that's a whole separate topic). A fair amount of players need to "git gud" in savage since there are still a surprising amount of players that queue in with little to no understanding on their job or role. There's a minimum skill bar to do Savage content. If you don't meet the bar... sorry man. There are plenty of ways to level up your play (simple practice (either in fights or practice dummies), looking up guides, etc) and if you either can't or simply *don't want to* get better, there's plenty of content for you to do that isn't savage.

Savage is designed for players that have a sturdy understanding on their jobs and can play mechanically better than the average player base, that's just how it is. It's not designed for everyone, even though they made it very accessible this expansion. Don't ruin savage just because *you* have a hard time doing it. PF is not an accurate representation for savage because you get people of varying skill levels and occasionally players that simply WANT to be carried. If you want to do savage and actually intend to get through it I highly recommend finding a static or at least a premade group of around 4-5 players.

Secondly... lack of measured progression? You learn to do one mechanic, start doing it consistently, then start working on the next. You can easily measure your progression..

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

the problem is if the carrot being dangled isn't enticing enough it will be dead content on arrival.

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Clearly there is chunk of playerbase that doesnt feel like Savage and is totaly bored with storymode.
So what are you basing your "dead on arrival" on? On the fact that YOU would not be interested?

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Originally Posted by RylaBee

Clearly there is chunk of playerbase that doesnt feel like Savage and is totaly bored with storymode.
So what are you basing your "dead on arrival" on? On the fact that YOU would not be interested?

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I agree with him.

If Savage dungeons dropped tomestones, moogle tome equivalents, current crafted gear equivalent, glams or old items, I would rarely go near them. I want a Mythic+ system, but from experience if the reward isn't enticing people will run them less often, you'll struggle to get groups and it just won't feel worth it long term for the effort. In other words it'll die out. Look at BLU as an example. It's interesting and there's a Morbol mount, but old allied seals and one mount for a lot of effort isn't enticing.
Their gear system is very rigid. Crafted/Normal 8 man gear is good enough for almost everything, even the first few Savage bosses and extremely easy to get. Then there's Savage/high tome gear. There's no room for an in-between, no use for anything worse and anything equal to Savage invalidates it. We don't need tomes either, they rain from the sky.

WoW pulled it off because they had a very different gear system. FF14 could probably only pull it off either by adding gear almost at Savage level (495 for example) which is very debatable, or by adding significant new mount/glam/minion rewards and updating them which eats resources. It's a delicate one to figure out.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I agree with him.

If Savage dungeons dropped tomestones, moogle tome equivalents, current crafted gear equivalent, glams or old items, I would rarely go near them. I want a Mythic+ system, but from experience if the reward isn't enticing people will run them less often, you'll struggle to get groups and it just won't feel worth it long term for the effort. In other words it'll die out. Look at BLU as an example. It's interesting and there's a Morbol mount, but old allied seals and one mount for a lot of effort isn't enticing.
Their gear system is very rigid. Crafted/Normal 8 man gear is good enough for almost everything, even the first few Savage bosses and extremely easy to get. Then there's Savage/high tome gear. There's no room for an in-between, no use for anything worse and anything equal to Savage invalidates it. We don't need tomes either, they rain from the sky.

WoW pulled it off because they had a very different gear system. FF14 could probably only pull it off either by adding gear almost at Savage level (495 for example) which is very debatable, or by adding significant new mount/glam/minion rewards and updating them which eats resources. It's a delicate one to figure out.

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One area they could maybe afford to infringe on is the i490 gear. Stop handing out essentially free upgraded crafting gear and make it so Mythic+ dungeons dropped i490 gear that could be upgraded to i495. If they really wanted to push the envelop, they could potentially tie a reward from these upscaled dungeons to Savage, thus allowing i500 drops. Frankly, tome gear being so readily available really shot them in the foot. It also doesn't help sub-stats are equally rigid. Crit + whatever is pretty much the answer.

This is definitely one aspect of 6.0 they really ought to look into, especially if they are considered the rumored stat crunch. But yeah, I think even they're finding out you can only toss in minions and mounts for so long before people stop caring.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This is definitely one aspect of 6.0 they really ought to look into, especially if they are considered the rumored stat crunch.

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Mind elaborating on this? or at least sharing a link? I personally haven't heard anything about this.

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Originally Posted by EthanXdeath

Mind elaborating on this? or at least sharing a link? I personally haven't heard anything about this.

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Don't have the link, but I know what they're talking about.
It was in one of the many post 5.0 live letters (why I can't find it now).
They were saying the numbers are getting too big and things dealing a million damage doesn't make sense, so they were gonna rework things under the hood to dial back the damage inflation.
They didn't give a hard date, but said it might happen for 6.0.

Oh god. Leave what little hardcore content alone. It's literally the only thing that's fun in the game now and the only rewarding content in the game by far.

You literally have 24 mans, normal raids, normal dungeons, and normal trials and to an extent. This is your content, content that can just be tank and spanked, not following any mechanics, and limped through it. You can spend as much time as you want in this content because there's no enrage. In fact, you can literally do content like this just by spamming one button. This is the content that you want.


We only really have 12 savage fights per expansion, and 2 ultimates and I guess EX Fights that play more like Normal Trials but with no telegraphs and a very forgiving dps check. That's literally what hardcore people who want challenging content have.
There's literally no Savage Dungeons, not even a new Deep Dungeon to do. Once you learned the fight, and you have it on farm, there's nothing to do anymore.

You don't need raid gear, because there's no Hard Enrage in your content . In fact, the few fights that do have dps check has built-in echo, which is literally a permanent dps buff, hp buff, and it allows you to wipe less .

And guess what? That BiS gear is gonna be useless come next raid tier anyway, unless you're doing Ultimate, which you're probably not gonna do (and probably beg SE to nerf too). Like I'm serious, the next normal raid gear, they're gonna be better than the previous BiS gear . They're only used for this SAVAGE raid tier.

So honestly, stop crying. You're more than welcome to try out hardcore content, and you're more than capable to complete a Savage raid tier, and you're welcome to work for it.

And yes it's enjoyable to work for something, even in video games. It's very satisfying to complete a hard fight that you struggled to clear. It's the same reason why Dark Souls exists, it's very satisfying to overcome an obstacle that you struggled and to finally grab the reward that you really wanted.

Not every game needs to be Animal Crossing.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

Oh god. Leave what little hardcore content alone. It's literally the only thing that's fun in the game now and the only rewarding content in the game by far.

You literally have 24 mans, normal raids, normal dungeons, and normal trials and to an extent. This is your content, content that can just be tank and spanked, not following any mechanics, and limped through it. You can spend as much time as you want in this content because there's no enrage. In fact, you can literally do content like this just by spamming one button. This is the content that you want.


We only really have 12 savage fights per expansion, and 2 ultimates and I guess EX Fights that play more like Normal Trials but with no telegraphs and a very forgiving dps check. That's literally what hardcore people who want challenging content have.
There's literally no Savage Dungeons, not even a new Deep Dungeon to do. Once you learned the fight, and you have it on farm, there's nothing to do anymore.

You don't need raid gear, because there's no Hard Enrage in your content . In fact, the few fights that do have dps check has built-in echo, which is literally a permanent dps buff, hp buff, and it allows you to wipe less .

And guess what? That BiS gear is gonna be useless come next raid tier anyway, unless you're doing Ultimate, which you're probably not gonna do (and probably beg SE to nerf too). Like I'm serious, the next normal raid gear, they're gonna be better than the previous BiS gear . They're only used for this SAVAGE raid tier.

So honestly, stop crying. You're more than welcome to try out hardcore content, and you're more than capable to complete a Savage raid tier, and you're welcome to work for it.

And yes it's enjoyable to work for something, even in video games. It's very satisfying to complete a hard fight that you struggled to clear. It's the same reason why Dark Souls exists, it's very satisfying to overcome an obstacle that you struggled and to finally grab the reward that you really wanted.

Not every game needs to be Animal Crossing.

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And not every game need to be Dark Souls.

In fact, that's a pretty poor comparison in that Dark Souls it's on you learning the fights, not having to coordinate with 7 other people.

And let's be honest, some Dark Souls fights are more forgiving than EX/Savage.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

And not every game need to be Dark Souls.

In fact, that's a pretty poor comparison in that Dark Souls it's on you learning the fights, not having to coordinate with 7 other people.

And let's be honest, some Dark Souls fights are more forgiving than EX/Savage.

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i agree lets be honest, You people asking savage and ex to be nerfed is not simply laughable and bad for the game, its also extremely selfish. You already can clear in pf groups, if you hate having to coordinate with 7 other random players , then go find 7 players you can coordinate. Also no the game isnt Dark Souls especially not Ex fights, and this needs to be said till its drilled into your selfish head Savage or Ex trials is not something youre forced to do and also Bis is not necessary for anyone else but those who raid in super savage . you can already get 490 ilvl in a slower pace by simply doing dailies and when the next patch comes you can get 500 ilvl. You guys already stopped giving a shit in dungeons single pulling stuff or just using heal spells or using single targets on 12 mobs just so you can watch netflix and not only that you get upset if anyone tries to give you advice. You want to chill then go do literally every other content in the whole game

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

And not every game need to be Dark Souls.

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They add roughly 9 fights a year above the default difficulty level. They come out mostly in 6-7 month intervals, and rarely are there more then 5 active at a time. If the existence of a literal handful of instances that you cant do(and dont seem to want to work on being able to do) is that much of an issue for you then there is no point in trying to talk to you.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

And not every game need to be Dark Souls.

In fact, that's a pretty poor comparison in that Dark Souls it's on you learning the fights, not having to coordinate with 7 other people.

And let's be honest, some Dark Souls fights are more forgiving than EX/Savage.

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They make 8-9 hard fights a year. They don't need their difficulty nerfed because you can't rise to the challenge or play well with other people.

But here's some questions for you since you're so sure its the rest of the party's fault you can't clear. Your profile says you're a SCH main. Are you dpsing when the group doesn't need to be healed? Are you spending every GCD doing something? Are you using your Aetherflow and Fairy abilities efficiently? Are you keeping Aetherflow and Dissipation on cooldown? Using your Chain Stratagem as often as its up and aligning it with other raid buffs as applicable?

Or does 25% GCD uptime, 43% Biolysis uptime, wasted Aetherflow stacks, and 2/4 Chain Stratagems used sound more like you? If so, you have no business being in savage content blaming other people for your inability to clear.

I see no harm in adding alternative methods to obtain the current BiS gear. No one loses out on anything and since it "doesn't matter" to those that don't play Savage then it shouldn't matter to those that do.

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Originally Posted by Britha

I see no harm in adding alternative methods to obtain the current BiS gear. No one loses out on anything and since it "doesn't matter" to those that don't play Savage then it shouldn't matter to those that do.

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except that it does matter for those that do play savage cause they want to do super savage. and you would be undermining all the effort those people put . why dont you go and spit on their faces as well.

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Originally Posted by HeulGDarian

except that it does matter for those that do play savage cause they want to do super savage. and you would be undermining all the effort those people put . why dont you go and spit on their faces as well.

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That's a bit of an exaggeration, I think. I know Savage Raiders and have dipped my toes in now and then and almost to a man they really don't care about gear beyond the stats. Their concerns are clearing, doing well and the only rewards they care about (if they care about them at all) are the special mounts for Savage tiers. Gear is not a goal, it's a means to an end.

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Originally Posted by Britha

That's a bit of an exaggeration, I think. I know Savage Raiders and have dipped my toes in now and then and almost to a man they really don't care about gear beyond the stats. Their concerns are clearing, doing well and the only rewards they care about (if they care about them at all) are the special mounts for Savage tiers. Gear is not a goal, it's a means to an end.

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the gear in savage is also a reward for their effort. And most people dont care about the mount the recognition they get is mostly from the gear, the mount is just some rng loot that only 1 in 8 will get per clear.