Please make healing more worthwhile than Dps-ing

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Originally Posted by Miminming

There's only a finite amount of heal you can heal in a fight, wont having a nuke that can only be done after a certain amount of healing would make interaction between heal and dps-ing more interesting? since you need to heal as much as possible WITHOUT overheal too much (lets not count overheal since... its overheal), at least i think its gonna be more its challenging than dps-ing while praying nobody make any mistake... imo, i think... not sure?

Ps. Just try healing savage so that i can understand more healer POV and manage to do E3s just fine with 450 eden normal gear (with a good healing partner that tell me when to heal at VC though... lol)



1. Make it so that healer have a gauge that can only be accumulated by healing and raise (don't count overheal), that can be used to dish out a BIG Dps

AND

2. Decrease the normal Dps spell potency (Glare/Broil/Etc

Apperantly people tend to miss the and part? Number 2 is there to balance the dps, since we dont want just give healer another nuke and raising their dps again, please dont just read the nerf, and ignore the buff they are a set in one idea, thank you.

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You mean those lilies WHM has? Thats already a thing, and no, they're not very interesting. At best, they're a bad version of aetherflow.

1. Miminming,as said before your idea about healing contribute to dps is already implemented with WHM and his lily gauge.

2.the problem isn't with "oh healing isn't contribute to dps logs so lets not heal" cause lets face it if you get healers that only dps they are most likely inexperienced/not their main role/probably have to due to insufficient dps for checks(savage raid players) /just plain bad healers.
you won't really find a solution cause lets say that even if you find a way to make healing contribute to dps , those who are just bad healers will probably use healing on themselves and won't use it to help others.

the problem is the healers pool,lets face it, most of the pro/decent healers have probably switched to a different roles(due to leveling other jobs or quit due to changes).
the more the jobs being pushed to being stale,boring,too simple,lacking in downtime abilities and losing their unique game style the more people will just leave being a main healer and go be a tank or dps cause they offer complexity and stuff to do.
during downtime a support can do a few things dps,apply buffs(includes regen and shields),apply debuffs(including dots) and sadly ff 14 healer can apply barely 1 buff, 1 / 2 debuffs and all thats left is just 1 dps skill and trust me most healers here don't want to just press the same dps skill button all the time.

that just leaves those who only level to get to 80 and abandoned the role, leeches that want people to carry them while they do nothing and the few people who kept being main healers.
if the problem was just handling inexperienced healers, then other then the occasional "healer is to blame"/"what im doing wrong" thread would be up ,most people would actually be fine and help with training.

but it isn't ,there is a decline in healers and due to the shortage you get more lechers/bad healers that want fast queue and if remember reading correctly i think those who main dps/tank at static parties sometimes had to switch to a healer job just cause they cant find one.

so in summery the problem isn't with healing not being rewarding enough its because of the lack of people that keep being main healers that you get leachers or bad healers more. i mean the healer community does have a 25 pages thread on why people quit healing after all :(

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Originally Posted by Miminming

There's only a finite amount of heal you can heal in a fight, wont having a nuke that can only be done after a certain amount of healing would make interaction between heal and dps-ing more interesting? since you need to heal as much as possible WITHOUT overheal too much (lets not count overheal since... its overheal), at least i think its gonna be more its challenging than dps-ing while praying nobody make any mistake... imo, i think... not sure?
Ps. Just try healing savage so that i can understand more healer POV and manage to do E3s just fine with 450 eden normal gear (with a good healing partner that tell me when to heal at VC though... lol)

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Yeah, that's the current WHM lily mechanic and it's not engaging. It's convenient not having to spend Swiftcast to Medica or Cure II when moving, but the translation between healing and DPS is slim to none. It sucks that Misery literally can't line up with initial burst. In all honesty, it was more exciting to commit to DPS on Cleric Stance.

Having the healing kit and DPS kit interact is in theory an avenue for interesting play, but none of the implementations so far have given us that, because they've all been binary chunks that doesn't lend themselves well to different encounter types. Hell, even within a kit healers have limited interaction.

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1. Make it so that healer have a gauge that can only be accumulated by healing and raise (don't count overheal), that can be used to dish out a BIG Dps
AND
2. Decrease the normal Dps spell potency (Glare/Broil/Etc
Apperantly people tend to miss the and part? Number 2 is there to balance the dps, since we dont want just give healer another nuke and raising their dps again, please dont just read the nerf, and ignore the buff they are a set in one idea, thank you.

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Ah, I see. So for all solo content healers (who under this seems to be even more homogenized) are supposed to get their ass beat and heal themselves until this "BIG Dps" becomes available? Alternating between healing and spamming a weak filler damage spell sounds riveting.

If you want us to heal more, just make the boss do more damage.
But atm, healing consist of burst phase that you deal with ogcd (usually) spaced with nothing to do.

If we were to not dps we could easily soloheal most boss if you'd just make some burst phase less bursty(or just give us more time to heal them)

To be honest I would really like a totally different healing meta.
Fixed MP for a fight and no recovery well may be something like resting in FFXI but that kinda hard to implent with the enconter design in FFXIV.
This way you really have to think about when you're healing and who is receiving the heal may be even skip all but 1 oGCD heal and make cast even longer like 4-5 sec.
so you have to think in advance where you can place yourself.

Now have fun killing me :D:cool:

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Originally Posted by Auftragskiller

To be honest I would really like a totally different healing meta.
Fixed MP for a fight and no recovery well may be something like resting in FFXI but that kinda hard to implent with the enconter design in FFXIV.
This way you really have to think about when you're healing and who is receiving the heal may be even skip all but 1 oGCD heal and make cast even longer like 4-5 sec.
so you have to think in advance where you can place yourself.

Now have fun killing me :D:cool:

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That sounds absolutely dreadful. "I want healers to do nothing but heal, and when no healing is to be done they must stand still because now you have no Mana recovery"

I guess it is dreadful for a "ogog generation"
But not everyone in this world is young and has "ADHD".
I know it wont happen and probably only a very very little minority would like this kind of gameplay but what's wrong with
a more relaxed gameplay where you have to think about overheal and if it is really needed to cast?
It won't be easier to keep the party alive this way! Two Cure too much or at the wrong time or for the wrong person and you've got a wipe incoming.
You have to think twice what you do!
I'm working all day I dont want to stress me with abusing keyboard/mouse/controller that's why I don't care about anything group relatet outside of story.

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Originally Posted by Auftragskiller

I guess it is dreadful for a "ogog generation"
But not everyone in this world is young and has "ADHD".
I know it wont happen and probably only a very very little minority would like this kind of gameplay but what's wrong with
a more relaxed gameplay where you have to think about overheal and if it is really needed to cast?
It won't be easier to keep the party alive this way! Two Cure too much or at the wrong time or for the wrong person and you've got a wipe incoming.
You have to think twice what you do!
I'm working all day I dont want to stress me with abusing keyboard/mouse/controller that's why I don't care about anything group relatet outside of story.

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Uh...what...?

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Originally Posted by Auftragskiller

I guess it is dreadful for a "ogog generation"
But not everyone in this world is young and has "ADHD".
I know it wont happen and probably only a very very little minority would like this kind of gameplay but what's wrong with
a more relaxed gameplay where you have to think about overheal and if it is really needed to cast?
It won't be easier to keep the party alive this way! Two Cure too much or at the wrong time or for the wrong person and you've got a wipe incoming.
You have to think twice what you do!
I'm working all day I dont want to stress me with abusing keyboard/mouse/controller that's why I don't care about anything group relatet outside of story.

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You are playing a game that is quite obviously not to your taste regarding its gameplay, you chose to stick with it nonetheless and that is fine.
FFXIV heavily favors a lot of active time, which may feel like stress to you but if you still play it, that's solely on you. Instead of accepting that, you look down on people who play it as intended and dare to enjoy it as "ogog generation with ADHD".
Spoiler: you are not the only person on the planet with a full-time job or not in their teens anymore. This has nothing to do with either.

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Originally Posted by Auftragskiller

I guess it is dreadful for a "ogog generation"
But not everyone in this world is young and has "ADHD".
I know it wont happen and probably only a very very little minority would like this kind of gameplay but what's wrong with
a more relaxed gameplay where you have to think about overheal and if it is really needed to cast?
It won't be easier to keep the party alive this way! Two Cure too much or at the wrong time or for the wrong person and you've got a wipe incoming.
You have to think twice what you do!
I'm working all day I dont want to stress me with abusing keyboard/mouse/controller that's why I don't care about anything group relatet outside of story.

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I mean, you're perfectly free to stand around and do nothing but /dance between heals as it is now. Just pretend you have a fixed MP pool as your RP fantasy.

Just don't make me do it.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I mean, you're perfectly free to stand around and do nothing but /dance between heals as it is now. Just pretend you have a fixed MP pool as your RP fantasy.

Just don't make me do it.

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^^ This all day on repeat ^^

Don’t want to get into the whole ‘buffing/debuffing is impossible in ffxiv because it requires full content design’ argument but I feel like it would make sense for healers to be supporting the party in the huge healing downtime we end up with.

That’s not to say that healers shouldn’t have damage dealing capabilities, but I think if they don’t want us to heal very much it’d at least make more sense from a ‘trinity role’ perspective for healers to deal with support, since no other job does at the moment anyway. Buffs could be spells like Bravery / Haste or Protect / Shell (PvP version of course). Debuffs could be spells like Debrave or Deprotect, or unique ones like Virus and Eye for an Eye (though these were both off the cooldown before).

Basically I think if we had the same damage rotations we have now it wouldn’t have been as much of an issue if we have actual GCD spells to support the party. Right now we just have overpowered pure healing oGCDs that remove the need for our GCD, and nothing else to do but use either single target DoT, AoE direct damage and direct damage filler spell.

If they desperately want to keep healer playstyles the exact same way they are now they could at least invert the strength of oGCD and GCD. It always felt kinda weird to me that oGCDs were so much stronger than GCDs; surely it should be the other way around.

I understand that they don’t want healing to be too difficult but there has to be some limit lol. I mean, to do well as a DPS you really need to pay attention to a lot, whether it’s using proper rotations, lining up things like raid buffs or damage boost abilities, positionals, cast times, enemy aoes that get in the way of either of these, even just simple things like managing job gauges. Barely of any it applies to healers, where you can slap any target with one or two oGCDs and get them back to 100% HP, without any real limitation like cast times or MP, and incoming damage is usually spaced apart so far that the cooldowns don’t have much meaning.

Tl;dr is I think healers should be focused on ‘supporting the party’ in some way during healing time. Failing that (since what I suggested is close to impossible), they could at least tone down oGCD strength, because they feel far too strong for how easily used they are.

^ Not just overpowered, but boring. Cooldowns that are superfluous in purpose are simply not that interesting. Shadowbringers actually suffers from a lot of this on every job. Why have TWO Egi Assaults that do the same thing and just get used on cooldown? What is the point of Bloodletter or Carve and Spit if I'm simply using them on cooldown? Healers just have it the worst, because they have multiple oGCD cooldowns that just refill HP bars and the supply exceeds the demand for the vast majority of the time.

I don't think given XIV's situation that there is a way to avoid healers dpsing, unless you want to exchange it completely for babysitting buff cooldowns (which I'd really rather not). But if there were more skills focused on optimizing performance or to address specific niches that actually come up (unlike the difference between Low Blow and Interject), then that would go a long way towards making healer play more compelling during downtime.

Also, our dps rotation can be a little more than one boring ass button and a boring ass DoT. I promise, it's not too complicated for us.

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

Also, our dps rotation can be a little more than one boring ass button and a boring ass DoT. I promise, it's not too complicated for us.

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Scholars all around the world had to deal with five dots and stance dancing in HW and things were going well. But apparently SE thinks players have become dumber over the years...?

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Originally Posted by Lodi

Scholars all around the world had to deal with five dots and stance dancing in HW and things were going well. But apparently SE thinks players have become dumber over the years...?

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Or maybe they understand that tracking 5 dots on different timers is not fun, just tedious.

I don't know why the dots get brought up when obviously the best thing about HW was Cleric Stance.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Or maybe they understand that tracking 5 dots on different timers is not fun, just tedious.

I don't know why the dots get brought up when obviously the best thing about HW was Cleric Stance.

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Maybe dots get brought up because a lot of people actually enjoyed it? Just because YOU didn't like it doesn't mean nobody else had to, I honestly don't get this notion of why you think your opinions on everything is fact.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Maybe dots get brought up because a lot of people actually enjoyed it? Just because YOU didn't like it doesn't mean nobody else had to, I honestly don't get this notion of why you think your opinions on everything is fact.

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I'm not gonna preface every post with an "Opinion warning" just because it's not obvious to you that everything in this forum is opinion.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

I'm not gonna preface every post with an "Opinion warning" just because it's not obvious to you that everything in this forum is opinion.

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Maybe, but it seems so out there to you that there are people who do enjoy things that you didn't, and every post you play out like it's a fact. Yes, opinions are certainly a thing and your entitled to yours, but when you say something like "stance dancing was superior" and label that as fact, just as in every post where somebody disagrees with you. You don't ever come off as "this is my opinion" you state everything as if it is fact and only your interpretation of healers or w/e is the correct one. No, you don't have to say "in my opinion" before every post, but to act like you can tell people what they enjoyed about healers, ie. Saying cleric stance was better then dots so why even bother bringing those up, makes you come off as arrogant.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Maybe dots get brought up because a lot of people actually enjoyed it? Just because YOU didn't like it doesn't mean nobody else had to, I honestly don't get this notion of why you think your opinions on everything is fact.

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Well, they had to change it because Scholar is the only healer in game. If you liked healing but didn't like DoTs you literally had no other options.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Or maybe they understand that tracking 5 dots on different timers is not fun, just tedious.

I don't know why the dots get brought up when obviously the best thing about HW was Cleric Stance.

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I did mention Cleric Stance, but oh well.

And I know that I had more fun tracking two dots with different timers in SB than just a long one in ShB. You know, having two separate things to keep track of (and one of them not being instant cast) really broke the monotony. I used to hate AST at low level because it was exactly how healers are today: press 2 then 1 for X seconds, repeat.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Well, they had to change it because Scholar is the only healer in game. If you liked healing but didn't like DoTs you literally had no other options.

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I'm sorry, what?

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Maybe, but it seems so out there to you that there are people who do enjoy things that you didn't, and every post you play out like it's a fact. Yes, opinions are certainly a thing and your entitled to yours, but when you say something like "stance dancing was superior" and label that as fact, just as in every post where somebody disagrees with you. You don't ever come off as "this is my opinion" you state everything as if it is fact and only your interpretation of healers or w/e is the correct one. No, you don't have to say "in my opinion" before every post, but to act like you can tell people what they enjoyed about healers, ie. Saying cleric stance was better then dots so why even bother bringing those up, makes you come off as arrogant.

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That was obviously his opinion, people don't tend to preface everything with a "this is my opinion" since it should be obvious. People tend to to express their opinions with fact like manner, nothing new.

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Originally Posted by Lodi

I'm sorry, what?

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fairly certain his response was a sarcastic joke.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

fairly certain his response was a sarcastic joke.

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I really hope it is.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

That was obviously his opinion, people don't tend to preface everything with a "this is my opinion" since it should be obvious. People tend to to express their opinions with fact like manner, nothing new.

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Fair enough I suppose. Most likely a lot of it is biased at that individual as well, considsding how they went on tangent like"new AST is obviously superior and others will see that I'm right eventually" (still haven't seen those AST numbers go up at all, and we're 8-9 weeks into the raid tier, so, you know. Oops)

i think its safe to say that everyone here ,with whatever they liked about their healers, wish for it to come back and make all 3 healers fun and engaging while keeping proper balance,so there is no need to fight about what we liked or dont liked ok ^^ .
SCH wish to have their dots and selene back,AST wants varied cards buff again, WHM is in a good spot but if it can be made even better it will always be a welcome addition.
in the end,i think we can all agree that the problem lies with the blunt changes they did to all healers and wish SE to give healers their unique identity and that their unique kits that will actually balanced them all and will complete what the other lacking.

to the OP, i said it in previous post the problem isn't making healing worthwhile cause most that do play healers know how important healing is and will gladly heal when its truly needed.
your problem is with the actual person you got stuck in the raid. tying healing to dps sound like an interesting mechanic to a kit as others said(i had fun with that idea for whm kit idea tbh ^^) but it wont solve your problem if the person himself wont press the button to heal or target you for healing so it isn't a class design problem but the person who took the healer spot.

the lack of good healers comes from the changes SE done that drives the healers away from the role cause they truly lost what made them unique and they aren't engaging enough.
it isn't about how much dps we do but what other things we can do when we dont heal cause 1 dps skill, 1 dot skill and 1 aoe skill is not interesting at all.
healers basically want to do more: give more buffs , apply more debuffs , use different dps skills.
we want to have more meaning, to manage different types of buffs that will actually impact and help party members(there are more things that improve dps then pure dmg aka faster casting, healing effect increase,mp regen,mitigation to protect better), manage debuffs that make mobs and boss suffer and be vulnerable(dot,attack reduced,defense reduced, crit hit increased, crit damage increase,even dispel the boss from enchantments works) and lastly to have varied skills that do damage not just 1.

In conclusion,AST need their varied card buffs again(and find a better solution for that fishing problem they suffered),SCH need to have more stuff(give them varied debuffs and pet uniqueness) and while WHM is in a good place give him more stuff that will make him more unique and as important as the other healers and not get discriminated like i heard he suffered in previous expansion.(all of this is of course in proper balance between all us healers ,no discrimination to any healer :) )
the moment there will be various things for healers to do during downtime, you will see that you will get less and less bad healers that don't heal in your party ^^.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Fair enough I suppose. Most likely a lot of it is biased at that individual as well, considsding how they went on tangent like"new AST is obviously superior and others will see that I'm right eventually" (still haven't seen those AST numbers go up at all, and we're 8-9 weeks into the raid tier, so, you know. Oops)

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In the "Goodbye Astro" thread you referenced, I said "AST is strong. The healers are more balanced than they've ever been. People will realize it sooner or later". If I wanted to quote something you said in a different thread, I would have gone to that thread, found the post and made sure I quoted accurately. I expect you to to do the same.

You haven't seen the AST numbers go up "at all"? Have you even looked?

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

In the "Goodbye Astro" thread you referenced, I said "AST is strong. The healers are more balanced than they've ever been. People will realize it sooner or later". If I wanted to quote something you said in a different thread, I would have gone to that thread, found the post and made sure I quoted accurately. I expect you to to do the same.

You haven't seen the AST numbers go up "at all"? Have you even looked?

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My point was not to quote you or to even attack you, merely to show that I have a bias and an example of why I have said bias, so I paraphrased. Should I have gotten an exact quote? Probably, but I'm sick,tired, and at work, so I honestly cannot be bothered to dig through old threads or through profiles or w/e.

As for AST growth, yes, I looked at it this morning, sure it went up, but not in anyway that indicates it's doing well. I have an old SS from sep 2 where AST was at 15k, to today where it was at 17k. A significant growth, until you compare it to the other two healers, who grew at the same amount in the same amount of time, with WHM actually growing a bit more. Tells me the same people who were playing AST are the same people still playing it. If there were any time for AST to get more popular, it'd be now since people are getting bis and would actually care about starting to do parse runs. I am curious how it's grown compared to when the raid tier started. For much the same reason I can't be asked to go back and find the numbers it was at then,so please show me if you have them, if I remember correctly, AST hasn't grown nearly as much as the other two, but that's people off whats in my head so I wont make conjecture.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Or maybe they understand that tracking 5 dots on different timers is not fun, just tedious.

I don't know why the dots get brought up when obviously the best thing about HW was Cleric Stance.

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I don't recall this tedium you claim to have experienced. In fact, the only time I have ever found myself bored with SCH's basic gameplay is Shadowbringers. It was the tightest, most thought-through design in ARR and it took two expansions for it to get bloated enough to threaten that. Now after "rework" it's a mess with a one-button dps spam rotation and many superfluous cooldowns I rarely find legitimate reason to use outside of wall-to-wall pulls and Titan.

And even in this state, I still consider it the best healer design of the expansion. Give it back the rest of its DoTs and it might even be fun to play in low tension situations again.

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Originally Posted by Lodi

Scholars all around the world had to deal with five dots and stance dancing in HW and things were going well. But apparently SE thinks players have become dumber over the years...?

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I don't want to believe there's anything malicious going on. Just think they are convinced they are doing Scholars (and to my limited knowledge of them, AST and WHM) favors by removing Cleric stance, baking offensive spells into each other, removing nuance spells, streamlining identities, hand out oGCD heals like candy etc. But I wanted to chain myself to these abilities when they came in with the cleaver and shouting "No no, overcoming these incoinveniences are what makes the job so fun!" In their mind, being able to do 10 0000 damage with a single spell seems to be the more lucrative playstyle instead of having it ramp up by being a risky stance, apply several dots in prepared order, actually have to get dangerously close for Miasma 2, casting 3.0s Shadowflare while needing to keep an eye on party healthbars, Lily and boss' castbar for mitigation. Then further forget Ruin/Broil exists because at the point you have nothing else left to do, the fight is over.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Well, they had to change it because Scholar is the only heaer in game. If you liked healing but didn't like DoTs you literally had no other options.

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Hehe, it's almost like there isn't three jobs in the role that couldn't afford to be strikingly different appealing to completely different playstyles. This might be in their grand plan for next expansion: "In ShB we Balanced healers, in 6.0 we balance Everything!"

And hey Tali, almost didn't recognize your portrait.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Or maybe they understand that tracking 5 dots on different timers is not fun, just tedious.

I don't know why the dots get brought up when obviously the best thing about HW was Cleric Stance.

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Cleric Stance was great (in HW, not in SB and especially not in ShB on account for not existing except with a red line across it on hotbar#8.) but dots were also great. All five of them. So was Selene and the pet hotbar. And the Arcanist skills. I agree, standing before a training dummy apply the dots then stand around wasn't particulary engaging. On the other hand, apply five dots while in Cleric Stance, while Griffin is jumping back and forwards, while a DPS didn't run fast enough took an aoe to the face, the tank is in dps stance, while you're about to be shackled AND you see Aero is just about to drop off! Now that was fun. I've got so many more stories like that. The part of dodging stuff and party taking unnecessary damage still occurs, I just don't have a fraction of the things I used to be able to do while also watching out for the party or when doing stuff alone.

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Originally Posted by Lodi

I really hope it is.

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Probably is.

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Originally Posted by Sloprano

And hey Tali, almost didn't recognize your portrait.

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Hey Quil o/ :cool:

Here's how I see it: If it was a serious issue with the healers' toolkits, nobody would be clearing content.

Yet people are clearing content all the time.

It isn't the toolkit; it's the person behind it.

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Originally Posted by WalxAtNite

Here's how I see it: If it was a serious issue with the healers' toolkits, nobody would be clearing content.

Yet people are clearing content all the time.

It isn't the toolkit; it's the person behind it.

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"Complete" toolkits don't equal fun toolkits.

And "Complete" is purely subjective.

Ask 2.0 Warriors, 3.0 Bards / Ninjas, 4.0 Dark Knights / WHM

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

"Complete" toolkits don't equal fun toolkits.

And "Complete" is purely subjective.

Ask 2.0 Warriors, 3.0 Bards / Ninjas, 4.0 Dark Knights / WHM

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I didn't insinuate otherwise. The point I'm trying to make is if healers are DPSing instead of healing, and if it's causing deaths/wipes, the toolkit they have access to - no matter how complete or incomplete it may be - is *not* the cause. It just isn't. It's the healer.

"But healing is boring."

Yes. I totally understand this and while I have never played a healer in this game (still a noob, honestly), I know what it's like to play a boring class in an MMO because I've played them for years. I legit sympathize with healers who just aren't having a good time. It sucks. Badly. I hope there are changes on the horizon for them.

Nevertheless, if people are dying due to lack of healing as OP suggested, it has nothing at all to do with how boring or complete/incomplete the toolkit might be. It's the person using the toolkit.

Just because it's boring, that doesn't mean anyone should just let people die. You can't not heal and then say, "Oh, it isn't me. It's the job," because it isn't. People are, in fact, clearing content every day, and there are plenty of healers out there keeping people alive all the time.

Now, if we switch that around and people were *not* clearing content, we could blame the toolkit at that point and call it broken. Unfortunately, boring =/= broken to the point that healers can't keep people alive.

That's the only thing I'm getting at. My comment isn't "it's working as intended so leave it alone and stop bi***ing."

It's more along the lines of... they have the ability to keep people alive, and if they aren't, the toolkit isn't to blame. The person using it is.

TL;DR - Even if it sucks REALLY hard because it isn't fun, if you are a healer and people are dying because you'd rather DPS, that isn't the job or its abilities. That's you.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

As for AST growth, yes, I looked at it this morning, sure it went up, but not in anyway that indicates it's doing well. I have an old SS from sep 2 where AST was at 15k, to today where it was at 17k. A significant growth, until you compare it to the other two healers, who grew at the same amount in the same amount of time, with WHM actually growing a bit more. Tells me the same people who were playing AST are the same people still playing it. If there were any time for AST to get more popular, it'd be now since people are getting bis and would actually care about starting to do parse runs. I am curious how it's grown compared to when the raid tier started. For much the same reason I can't be asked to go back and find the numbers it was at then,so please show me if you have them, if I remember correctly, AST hasn't grown nearly as much as the other two, but that's people off whats in my head so I wont make conjecture.

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The reason I pick on your statement is because you used the words "at all", which is just wrong. You even agreed with me that AST numbers would increase back then. Of course they would, the 5.05 buff was massive and addressed a major reason why people were not playing AST.

Here's a quote from back then:

Quote:

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AST currently makes up 16.6% of the healer parses on E1, or 4897 out of 29247. If you go E1S then it is 13.4%, or 4624 out of 34360. If you go up through normal it stays consistent in that for every 1 AST there will be 3 WHMs and roughly 2 SCHs. If you go up Savage then the amount of ASTs drastically drops to where you have up to 14 WHMs or SCHs per AST.

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This is what was said back then about fflogs parses. Looking at fflogs parses now vs then, the "savage parsing AST" population has doubled proportionally for pretty much every floor. You had 14 WHM per AST in Titan before. You have 6 WHM per AST in Titan now. Of course, this is not indicative of the general population. But you cannot claim that AST numbers have not increased. I never thought fflogs is a particularly good indicator of population.

I doubt it will ever be 1:1. As much as people say that they want more complex gameplay - even if AST were as strong as WHM, people tend to choose the path of least resistance.

To make healing more worthwile you change encounter design, not class design.

A healer will not heal when everybody is topped off. There is not benefit for the party to be overhealed. There is benefit for the party in dealing damage.

Reducing potencies or adding mechanics that gives healers bonuses to damage for doing healing will not work unless there is actually healing to do.