Labyrinth and Syrcus Tower...

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Efficiency. There's a minimum and a maximum priciple.

Minimum priciple: Get a fixed reward with as little effort aus possible.
Maximum prnciple: Use a fixed amount of effort to gain a reward that's a big as possible.

Since the reward in roulettes is fixed and the effort is variable, the only reasonable thing to do is minimizing your effort to get the fixed reward.

Now if all Raids took the same amount of time, but the rewards varied, people would jump on the one that grants the biggest reward for the fixed effort.

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Meh, there's efficiency and then there's limiting yourself to running the same thing daily in a video game.

But hey, as long as people show that they don't mind doing that, I guess that's one more evidence against all the people that complain that this game is the same thing expansion after expansion or that it's too easy. That's what people want and the developers don't mind being efficient themselves in how they release content.

I still think the only wat to solve this problem is making the reward and the end to scale on the lenght of the roulette you just did.
That way if you are wiping and taking a lot of time it still will be worth, because when you finish it, you will will get a lot of exp worth your time and effort on clearing something that took several wipes.
So it wont matter if you take something fast or long, it will be the same exp/time consuming

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Originally Posted by Flay_wind

Leveling Roulette is another can of worms. No one wants Sastasha, Copperbell, or basically anything pre 50. Why it puts me and other 3 60+ leveled players into Sastasha? This needs fixing first, imo.

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I dont know why you dont like Sastasha, is by far the best on exp wise. It takes 15 minutes and gives you ton of experience.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Of course I do, and everyone who says they never done it is either a liar, or hasnt unlocked SB alliance raids yet :P Nice try making it look like I'm engaging in some kind of forbidden or unethical activity tho xD Go ahead, name and shame me for avoiding Orbonne Abandon Roulette, I can take it ^^

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Never done this but in the same breath, I've never had a level 70 alliance raid hit in the roulette since expansion. I for one am bored of getting WoD as well simply because the level 50 job kits are just so lacking.

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Originally Posted by Suniva

I, and other players, are forced to watch cutscenes in MSQ if they que up for it. Nice try.

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You're not forced to queue for MSQ roulette. You sign up knowing full well the cutscenes are there, therefore you face the consequences. Basic adulthood really.

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Originally Posted by Clouse_Cleyra

I still think the only wat to solve this problem is making the reward and the end to scale on the lenght of the roulette you just did.
That way if you are wiping and taking a lot of time it still will be worth, because when you finish it, you will will get a lot of exp worth your time and effort on clearing something that took several wipes.
So it wont matter if you take something fast or long, it will be the same exp/time consuming

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They can't tie experience to time spent because people would intentionally cause wipes to bloat their EXP gains. If they go the EXP route, it will be a fixed amount like how Prae is higher than Castrum.

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Originally Posted by Clouse_Cleyra

I dont know why you dont like Sastasha, is by far the best on exp wise. It takes 15 minutes and gives you ton of experience.

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Because it's mind numbingly boring. It also isn't the best. All the Shadowbringer dungeons, and even most Stormblood ones, scale much better. Not to mention, they're nearly as fast even with a party full of chimps.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

They can't tie experience to time spent because people would intentionally cause wipes to bloat their EXP gains. If they go the EXP route, it will be a fixed amount like how Prae is higher than Castrum.




Because it's mind numbingly boring. It also isn't the best. All the Shadowbringer dungeons, and even most Stormblood ones, scale much better. Not to mention, they're nearly as fast even with a party full of chimps.

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Not that much sense wiping on purpose cause it would take you more time, time that you can be using to gain exp on dungeons or doing other stuff.
Everybody likes prae because its long on CS so you dont even need to be on the game, its basically free exp.

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Originally Posted by Strika23

I got Orbonne last week in my roulette and it was wipe after wipe. At the 3rd boss, the raid abandoned duty and I wasted almost an hour of my game time [...]

I think SE need to adjust the difficulty of Orbonne first and foremost. I'm not saying to make it mind-numbing boring like CT/ST, but the mechanics (especially on the third boss) are way too hard IMO for a regular roulette duty.

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This seems to not be an issue on JP servers, or at least Elemental. Wipes are rare and most people seem to know what they're doing - at least enough to keep everything running.

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Originally Posted by JowyAtreides

You're not forced to queue for MSQ roulette. You sign up knowing full well the cutscenes are there, therefore you face the consequences. Basic adulthood really.

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Um, yes. Yes I know this. The point of me making the statement was that RoyalBeef had stated that the game has no right to force things onto players. I simply made it a point that anyone that DOES queue up for MSQ is going to be forced to watch the cutscenes, regardless if they want to or not. I am sorry if you were not able to figure out the context of me having made the statement, but I hope I clarified it enough for you.

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Originally Posted by Clouse_Cleyra

Not that much sense wiping on purpose cause it would take you more time, time that you can be using to gain exp on dungeons or doing other stuff.
Everybody likes prae because its long on CS so you dont even need to be on the game, its basically free exp.

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But your suggestion implied tying EXP to the length it took, thereby making it potentially beneficial to wipe as it takes longer. And no, people prefer Prae because it gives a boatload of EXP whereas Castrum isn't worth the roulette at all.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

But your suggestion implied tying EXP to the length it took, thereby making it potentially beneficial to wipe as it takes longer. And no, people prefer Prae because it gives a boatload of EXP whereas Castrum isn't worth the roulette at all.

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Shouldn't be a time based reward but level based. 50 level raids should reward less experience than 60 and so on.

The content (drops) are sure something most aren't interested in anymore although some do want them for glamour. When Orbonne was relevant for gear, tokens, materia rewards people didn't mind so much when they got that in a roulette because the other content was soemthing they may have wanted stil. That sure isn't the case anymore.

LotA and ST take about 15-20 minutes. They're run so often people get their bonuses quicker.

I've been getting a lot of Void Ark lately which is nice, something more to actually do then Zerg rush.

Also had my first complete Orbonne run without vote abandoning last night in months. Almost missed the dps check on TG Cid but we managed because I melee lb 1'd before it 100.

Once the first Yorha raid comes out expect to have a lot of that too, which I'm totally in favor for but only if people don't vote abandon for it.

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Originally Posted by Noitems

LotA and ST take about 15-20 minutes. They're run so often people get their bonuses quicker.

I've been getting a lot of Void Ark lately which is nice, something more to actually do then Zerg rush.

Also had my first complete Orbonne run without vote abandoning last night in months. Almost missed the dps check on TG Cid but we managed because I melee lb 1'd before it 100.

Once the first Yorha raid comes out expect to have a lot of that too, which I'm totally in favor for but only if people don't vote abandon for it.

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Whenever a new raid comes out, the roulette kind of balances out for a few weeks, but then it goes right back to functioning in the way that it does, with people dropping their ilvl down. I've personally have had very few runs in Orbonne and fewer still that have been abandoned. But I typically will ask in my party as well as in alliance if anyone needs mechanics explained to try and help avoid the wipe fest that it could potentially be. I would like to think it helps, but who can really say for sure.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

People are artificially lowering their ilvl to get them by removing equipment because they're easier and faster to do. The rare time I actually get something that ISN'T Lab or Syrcus, a few people leave. : / It's annoying, aye.

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Or *gasp* people are leveling 51-59 jobs that can’t get highs roulletes. I’ve also seen people leave Lab and Sycrus when it starts cause they don’t want to do those.

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Originally Posted by Suniva

Whenever a new raid comes out, the roulette kind of balances out for a few weeks, but then it goes right back to functioning in the way that it does, with people dropping their ilvl down. I've personally have had very few runs in Orbonne and fewer still that have been abandoned. But I typically will ask in my party as well as in alliance if anyone needs mechanics explained to try and help avoid the wipe fest that it could potentially be. I would like to think it helps, but who can really say for sure.

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For sure. I remember the ye olde days of Rabnast where Rofocale was viewed as the TG Cid equivalent and you'd have to go through every single mechanic. Now the guy dies before the second marker add.

I also remember the joys of Lighthouse where Contruct 7 was the hurdle since people don't know how to run around him in a circle.

I'm in the same mind, I like checking in with people especially if the first couple of bosses take much longer then planned. When a Mustadio run gets in 3 analysis you start to become worried and make sure people know. It's just a matter if people actually pay attention and listen that determines if it's gonna be a good time.

There is a super easy fix for the lowering of ilvl oversight. Just have a minimum ilvl for the roulette depending whether you are level 50,60 or 70. I cannot fathom why this isn't already the case, I want to queue for alliance raid roulette, not for LotA/Syrcus roulette, if that stops some people for doing it fine, I don't want to play with people who can't concentrate for 30 minutes anyway. Increase the exp bonus for the higher lvl raids and everything is fixed.

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Originally Posted by Suniva

Um, yes. Yes I know this. The point of me making the statement was that RoyalBeef had stated that the game has no right to force things onto players. I simply made it a point that anyone that DOES queue up for MSQ is going to be forced to watch the cutscenes, regardless if they want to or not. I am sorry if you were not able to figure out the context of me having made the statement, but I hope I clarified it enough for you.

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SE doesn't force you to queue MSQ roulette
Nor they force you to watch the Cutscenes when you are in.
They however make sure people can enjoy them and do the dungeon and for that we have a better reward.

I've lowered my item level a few times to do this, but it isn't for the reason some may think. I want to try for the tank chestpiece from LotA and get my daily bonus. There's nothing stopping me from queueing up for LotA only but I like to be efficient with my time. Going through this thread, however, I feel as though I probably shouldn't contribute to this. It probably isn't the most ethical thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Noitems

I'm in the same mind, I like checking in with people especially if the first couple of bosses take much longer then planned. When a Mustadio run gets in 3 analysis you start to become worried and make sure people know. It's just a matter if people actually pay attention and listen that determines if it's gonna be a good time.

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One can typically gauge how the raid will go based on Mustadio alone, though I have had runs where he was painful and the rest were smooth sailing. But for the most part, if Mustadio is bad, the rest will be just as bad or worse in my experience. Sometimes I will stay, sometimes I will leave. That is ultimately my choice to make. Usually, as long as the boss dies and there is very few screw ups I will stick around. Dps output doesn't really factor into my decision.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

There is a super easy fix for the lowering of ilvl oversight. Just have a minimum ilvl for the roulette depending whether you are level 50,60 or 70. I cannot fathom why this isn't already the case, I want to queue for alliance raid roulette, not for LotA/Syrcus roulette, if that stops some people for doing it fine, I don't want to play with people who can't concentrate for 30 minutes anyway. Increase the exp bonus for the higher lvl raids and everything is fixed.

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Because DF doesn't support selective requirements like this, there is only one level requirement, item level requirement and whether you need to have 2 duties completed or all of them. There's a lot of work that goes into making the proposed system possible and SE is far more likely to give EXP incentives for newer raids than go through the trouble of adding this as it is a significant system change. XIV's main staff only has a few programmers at hand and their time is better spent on new features when an alternative solution is available.

Right now, Orbonne simply isn't worth the time, if it even completes in the first place, when ST gives the same EXP for a fraction of the time.

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Last night, I got Orbonne in roulette, and one tank left. By the time we got to Cid, a new tank showed up and we finished the raid, and that's with several people being new. They're all relatively easy now, so I don't know why anyone would bother trying to limit what you get. It's people leaving (especially tanks) that actually makes any of the raids harder than they need to be, not the raids themselves.

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That's great that that's been your experience. My last few experiences of Orbonne ended up being huge wastes of time that ended in vote abandons.


And tbh, even if the run goes smooth as silk, it still takes way longer to complete than LotA/ST.

In all honesty, I'll remove some gear occasionally when I queue for Alliance Raid, but only to the point that I'm below 360. Orbonne Monastery is too much of a headache to deal with nowadays to the point I've only seen a clear on Thunder God Cid once since Shadowbringers started. And even then, there was a wipe at 1% beforehand where I believe some people might've left.

Every other Raid I'm fine with doing (even if I am deathly tired of the Level 50 ones). I just don't want to spend 30+ minutes on a Raid where everyone's going to disband because they forgot/don't know mechanics and then have to requeue and waste further time.

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

LotA/ST: "Yaay, free XP"
WoD: "Shouldn't be a problem, but you never know!"
Dun Scaith: "Oh shit."
Obonne: "Shit just hit the fan!"

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Dun Scaith isn't too bad nowadays unless people are really really REALLY not paying attention on Deathgaze or let Scathach's minion use Full Swing. Orbonne, though, is a nightmare.

I'd like to do Ridorana or Rabanastre once in a while, though, even if people rarely do the mechanics on Mateus right anymore.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

There is a super easy fix for the lowering of ilvl oversight. Just have a minimum ilvl for the roulette depending whether you are level 50,60 or 70. I cannot fathom why this isn't already the case, I want to queue for alliance raid roulette, not for LotA/Syrcus roulette, if that stops some people for doing it fine, I don't want to play with people who can't concentrate for 30 minutes anyway. Increase the exp bonus for the higher lvl raids and everything is fixed.

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I can agree with this, though the fact that Crystal Tower is the earliest accessible Raid means that you're still probably likely to wind up in a roulette for it.

When there's an ilvl requirement for 24 man raids that you can cheese and sit there and AFK vs people who are ilvl 200 in Holmnister Switch with no ilvl requirement, yeah it is a problem even today I que in and 5 people were at 2.5k hp naked then put their gear on. It's an issue that I hope SE fixes in the near future I hate getting LoTA/ST and people still die because they didn't run to pads and are just AFK because they're the bad ones who leave when they get Orobonne and Ridorana and Dun Scaith they're just adding more to the problem by cheesing ilvl.

Yeah, I'm not sure when it started, but I've noticed that people ignore mechanics in Syrcus Tower a lot more. Used to be that people took the orbs to towers, but now they just sit there and let them explode on them (or whatever they do if you let them sit on you).

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Of course I do, and everyone who says they never done it is either a liar, or hasnt unlocked SB alliance raids yet :P Nice try making it look like I'm engaging in some kind of forbidden or unethical activity tho xD Go ahead, name and shame me for avoiding Orbonne Abandon Roulette, I can take it ^^

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Everyone, huh? Why don’t we not use absolutes, because you’ll just end up proving yourself wrong.

I don’t lower my item level. I actually like getting the HW and SB Alliance raids. And I’m hoping they implement a fix for this. I’ve got a friend who has someone they play with often that lowers their item level. I refuse to do Alliance Roulette with them because I’m tired of LotA and ST.

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Originally Posted by Flay_wind

Okay. So, tomes/exp are just a bonus. Then, why not just queue for a raid you want to run instead of complaining about getting the raid you do not want in roulette?

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Because some of the other raids have abysmal queue times. When I was trying to do the HW raids on an alt, I was waiting 30-45 minutes for Weeping City and Dun Scaith. I haven’t attempted to queue for them individually within the last month or so, but I wouldn’t be surprised if these queues are actually still that bad. Shame, because I’d love to farm the tank coat from Weeping to use.

The roulettes are also supposed to help these queue times. But people cheesing their item level doesn’t help anyone.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Everyone, huh? Why don’t we not use absolutes, because you’ll just end up proving yourself wrong.

I don’t lower my item level. I actually like getting the HW and SB Alliance raids. And I’m hoping they implement a fix for this. I’ve got a friend who has someone they play with often that lowers their item level. I refuse to do Alliance Roulette with them because I’m tired of LotA and ST.

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Same I have a friend who does the same and I don't que with em if I wanna AFK I can just do MSQ and watch a youtube vid on my other monitor, one week I que'd for Alliance Roulette everyday and got either LotA/ST everyday it was just so boring, I get people want fast EXP but if you want that just do HoH or PotD. It defeats the purpose of having a roulette in the first place if people want just a coin flip on either 50 24 man I enjoy having variety not just Labyrinth of the Asleep and Snorcus Tower I really hope they do a fix for this as well.

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Originally Posted by Flay_wind

Okay, i'll chime in. For example i have only Crystal Tower and Ivalice Raids unlocked. I only queue into Alliance Roulette on a 50-69 character i am currently leveling to max. Other 23 players that are queued with me into that particular Raid Roulette all funneled to Crystal Tower Raids only, because that's the only thing available to me personally. Do i cheat the system or not and how wrong is for me to do it?

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Not wrong at all. Your question is the same as asking as a level 50-59 player if by queueing up for alliance roulette, are you cheating other players from the more recent raids. There are certain things we have to accept by using the roulette. We give up certain freedoms for the convenience of getting a full group together faster, but an exploit such as this one is not one of them.

It's comes down to your intent. Deliberately reducing your ilv to exclude yourself (and possibly everyone else) from higher level raids is cheating not only the system, but potentially 23 other players as well. In your case, you're not cheating anyone but I would recommend unlocking the HW alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Or *gasp* people are leveling 51-59 jobs that can’t get highs roulletes. I’ve also seen people leave Lab and Sycrus when it starts cause they don’t want to do those.

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I go to sleep and the thread explodes. Yeesh.

Clearly not the case here hun, and I'm sure you're aware of it, but good job trying to justify it. In this thread and others many people have already admitted to lowering their ilvl. Still going with this excuse?

The only real fix is to enforce ilvl based on level. If this means those who have been lowering their ilvl no longer queue, good riddance.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Asking for a fix is implying there is something wrong with the system. It's working as intended tho ^^ Next thing you know, people ask for it to become a reportable offense. Some time in the future you'll be banned for equipping lower gear, or like in the other thread, for putting you PF party in the wrong category ^^
People who do that obviously don't want to play the raid you queued for, so why implement something that forces them and wil lead to them leaving or not queuing up anymore? As if that fixes your queues times.

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The intent of the roulettes is largely to facilitate new players being able to get through these raids (ok, they're also really a ploy to ensure daily investment in the game, thereby forming habits and mentally manipulating players into retaining subscription). If you honestly wanted to queue for Labyrinth or Syrcus, you would check them off specifically in duty finder. But you don't, because you really want the roulette reward. So you should have to pool into potentially going into any of the 24 mans you've unlocked when using said roulette.

There doesn't need to be bannings, and you even bringing that up such an extreme is a deflection. All that is needed is for roulettes to require the min ilvl of the highest unlocked instance available to your equipped job's level. Therefore, if someone wants to queue for a roulette on a max level character, they'd be potentially entered for the entire roulette. If they want to only get Labyrinth and Syrcus, they can... with a leveling job between levels 50 and 59.

Sure some people would stop queuing. Some might not do the later raids to begin with so they aren't added to the possibilities (mostly on alts only though, I'd wager). I think these people would be in the minority; many would do the roulette because it is a roulette and gives relevant tomes. And the more of those people not clogging the system with Labyrinth and Syrcus, the better.

We also know this system isn't working as intended, because SE doesn't want to put (badly needed) min ilvl restrictions on leveling dungeons for this exact reason among possible others. They fear that players would strip down to the point where they're guaranteed to get Satasha or something, drying up the supply of players helping new characters level later on.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

People are artificially lowering their ilvl to get them by removing equipment because they're easier and faster to do. The rare time I actually get something that ISN'T Lab or Syrcus, a few people leave. : / It's annoying, aye.

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This doesnt actually work. I've been completely naked and gotten Monastery before.

The fact is, that you don't need to unlock all 9 in order to open up the roulette. There are a good amount of people queuing for Alliance Roulette who never unlocked the higher level choices.

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Originally Posted by niwaar

This doesnt actually work. I've been completely naked and gotten Monastery before.

The fact is, that you don't need to unlock all 9 in order to open up the roulette. There are a good amount of people queuing for Alliance Roulette who never unlocked the higher level choices.

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Yes, it does. The game only verifies your gear when you initiate the queue itself. If you switch jobs or take everything off while waiting for it to pop, that doesn't impact what your results will be. If you were naked then queued, it's impossible to get Orbonne Monastery.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

I go to sleep and the thread explodes. Yeesh.

Clearly not the case here hun, and I'm sure you're aware of it, but good job trying to justify it. In this thread and others many people have already admitted to lowering their ilvl. Still going with this excuse?

The only real fix is to enforce ilvl based on level. If this means those who have been lowering their ilvl no longer queue, good riddance.

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I was recently leveling jobs that level “hun” so not sure what you are accusing me of excusing and justifying?

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

Yeah, I'm not sure when it started, but I've noticed that people ignore mechanics in Syrcus Tower a lot more. Used to be that people took the orbs to towers, but now they just sit there and let them explode on them (or whatever they do if you let them sit on you).

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It's been a thing for a while because of the high gear we get now
so we're allowed to take a few hits and already kill the boss.
People ignore almost all mechs because it's a DPS race to the finish, just like all of CT.
Another bad thing about this is, newbies don't get to see the full of the raid.
You know when you're suppose to platform jump on the Glabos w/e his name is?
Well, don't need to, just DPS as fast as you can and he doesn't even transition.

on the tower as Vieria I can't even access the towers

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Originally Posted by niwaar

This doesnt actually work. I've been completely naked and gotten Monastery before.

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Under ilevel 90 you'll get only CT or ST. WOD requires ilevel 90, Void ilevel 175, Weeping 205, Dun Scaith 235. Orbonne requires an ilevel of 365 so no idea how you're getting Monestary in your bday outfit.

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Originally Posted by niwaar

There are a good amount of people queuing for Alliance Roulette who never unlocked the higher level choices.

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I have a character on Balmung who is a skipper. I jumped her recently given i wanted a Viera there. The only duties I've unlocked for her atm are CT, ST and WOD. Now that CT is fairly easy to unlock those raids are pretty accessible. I've had characters where I started with Void and Weeping to unlock the roulette given the CT unlock was just too much of a pain to do. Unless you want to have all duties unlocked and cleared I see little reason for me at least to do them all on some of my alts.

Please nuke LotA and Syrcus from the roulette at this point. (I'm joking.)

I'm literally so sick of them, and it's part of a larger issue with people at endgame having absolutely no idea how to play their class or perform mechanics correctly. Gaming the system to avoid higher level content defeats the point of a roulette and the point of our roulettes - to keep old content active so people can get through them for story, achievements, rewards, etc. Having people constantly force LotA/ST popping because they don't want to put effort into playing the game is getting tiring. It's to the point I heavily consider dropping out when one of the two pops up every day.

I really implore the devs to implement some kind of stricter ilevel requirement for Alliance roulette and Leveling roulette.

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Originally Posted by linay

Last night, I got Orbonne in roulette, and one tank left. By the time we got to Cid, a new tank showed up and we finished the raid, and that's with several people being new. They're all relatively easy now, so I don't know why anyone would bother trying to limit what you get. It's people leaving (especially tanks) that actually makes any of the raids harder than they need to be, not the raids themselves.

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That's why I asked for an exp buff for raids that usually take longer, over here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...to-be-adjusted

Right now it's a bit more efficient to leave orbonne, do fates / afk for 30 mins and ilvl cheesing Syrcus than to clear Orbonne.

It takes 3x as long for the same rewards as Syrcus.

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Originally Posted by RoyalBeef

Of course I do, and everyone who says they never done it is either a liar, or hasnt unlocked SB alliance raids yet :P Nice try making it look like I'm engaging in some kind of forbidden or unethical activity tho xD Go ahead, name and shame me for avoiding Orbonne Abandon Roulette, I can take it ^^

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It IS unethical, its meant for us to fill the que for new players and ppl that farm stuff... thats the point of the roulet, or else que just for tower lol.

And no i never did it and most ppl I know neither.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

I've never done that because I accept that queuing for a roulette means I'm fine with running any content that roulette can put me in at my level. I get the reward for running the roulette because I'm willing to participate in the content I'm thrown in at random - and thats pretty obviously the way it was intended to be.

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Omg ^ this. Thank you for stating such. I queue 5/5 Ex Primals regularly for fun, as well as to simply help others new to the game, and cannot believe how many mentors land in there and immediately complain "why would anyone Duty Finder this, form a Party". These... "fake mentors" for lake of a better term will literally berate the newcomers for not using Party Finder instead.

My response every time is "Why would you queue mentor roulette if you're not willing to accept what you're potentially getting yourself into". I strongly wish the Mentor Roulette either consisted of only Extreme content, or that there was in fact, a roulette for extreme content.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

I was recently leveling jobs that level “hun” so not sure what you are accusing me of excusing and justifying?

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You are excusing it, inadvertently it or not. You claimed you were leveling jobs that level (if you were, fine), therefore you getting Lab/Tower means no one is exploiting an oversight, despite the numerous posts on this forum admitting such? Really, now?

And really, did you seriously think leveling jobs didn't occur to anyone as a possibility, at any point? Problem is, that is clearly not what is happening here, which is why people are irritated in the first place, hun.

Until/Unless they make the higher level raids worth more exp, then (some) people will continue to cheese it to get easy exp. There is no getting around it. People will choose the path that offers the biggest exp reward for the least time/effort. To make people stay in the ""challenging"" (read: you must pay some level of attention) raids, the exp reward would need to be significantly higher than doing 3~4 at-level dungeons, because that is less time and effort than it takes to clear Orbonne with an incompetent party, especially if you grab 3 friends and don't have to wait for queue.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

hun.

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Your opinion is not necessarily correct just because you use the most condescending language, buttercup

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Yeah or they need to adjust the system so that you simply cant queue for the roulette if you dont meet the ilvl requirement for all duties of your level...

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This sounds like an excellent suggestion to me. Roulette was introduced to be a party filler. This would accomplish that.