SE Please Sell Gil

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Originally Posted by grey1234

SE,
I'm quitting, .

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o/

In all seriousness, No. No. and No. It's not going to be paid to win. Also, I have been playing FFXIV since 1.0. In all my years of playing I only had one issue with bots killing diremites about 6 years ago.

That's it.

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Originally Posted by CookiesNCreams

LOL what happened to OPs character?

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Well he did say he was gonna quit.

"Game will be P2W"

They already sell gil, so far no one has had complaints about the $25 - 500k exchange. You can also buy 8 additional retainers generating 1m every couple of days.

I don't see how a WoW token like would break the game when the cash shop already generates so much gil in exchange for money.

I feel like using i450 as an argument for pay to win when our current max ilvl is i470 is a big stretch.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

They already sell gil

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Ok, then that's the end of the thread, I guess. People who want to buy gil can already do so.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

"Game will be P2W"

They already sell gil, so far no one has had complaints about the $25 - 500k exchange.

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In the context of fighting bots, the bots provide an exchange rate that 50 times better then the mogstation. Of course the bots are going to win that battle.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

You can also buy 8 additional retainers generating 1m every couple of days.

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Which isn't healthy for the game.

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I remember when they introduced such tokens to Everquest

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Krono sales and the healthy trading market on eq's TLP servers are basically keeping EQ alive right now.

Daybreak makes a LOT of money off them, and it's a big force in regulating the market.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Krono sales and the healthy trading market on eq's TLP servers are basically keeping EQ alive right now.

Daybreak makes a LOT of money off them, and it's a big force in regulating the market.

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I don't know which mechanisms and precaution are in place today, last time I played was 7 years ago or so. All I remember is BIM going for 15k pp and the whole game being overrun by mage bot armies ^^ That wasn't healthy at all.

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Originally Posted by Edax

In the context of fighting bots, the bots provide an exchange rate that 50 times better then the mogstation. Of course the bots are going to win that battle.

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This is the very tactic the WoW RMTers used even after the token was implemented.

They'd simply sell gold at prices even lower then what Blizzard indirectly offered via the token so they could never get rid of them entirely.

RMT really is a problem that can only be mitigated at best as they almost always find ways to do it at little to no cost to themselves, meaning there's only profit to be made.

It sounds like you really want to kill this game. Very bad idea.

Perhaps they should just increase the amount of gil that one can earn from various tasks.

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Originally Posted by ADarklore

Perhaps they should just increase the amount of gil that one can earn from various tasks.

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That would just cause inflation unless they increased the gil sinks to remove that extra gil being added to the economy. Flooding the economy with currency just devalues it, in 1914 a loaf of bread cost 13 cents in Germany, by 1923 bread cost $100 billion a loaf. Just handing out more gil isn't going to solve the problem.

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Originally Posted by ADarklore

Perhaps they should just increase the amount of gil that one can earn from various tasks.

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Think about what most money is spent on: Its stuff on the marketboard, mostly the most recent crafted gear, food and potions or rare glamour items like clothes, mounts, pets etc. All of those things have one thing in common: The prices are set by the playerbase and are adjusted to their current worth, aka what people are willing and able to pay for them. The more money people have, the more they're willing and able to spent and the prices go up accordingly. The problem of looking at the marketboard and thinking "Damn, that night pegasus is still 30 million, I cant afford that because I only have 10 million!" wouldnt be solved - it would only turn into "Yeah, I have 100 million now, I can buy that pegasus! ...wait... why does it cost 300 million now?!"

Your suggestion would be a proper one if the game itself offered massive gil-sinks, but it doesnt - the only thing close to a gil-sink would be housing and thanks to price-reductions most housing isnt even one: apartments, FC-rooms and small houses only leave a tiny dent in most peoples pockets, while mediums might have a chance at that and mansions are to few to have a real impact. Other than that... when does the game asks you to spend money? You can buy beast tribe mounts for 200k each and thats it.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Your suggestion would be a proper one if the game itself offered massive gil-sinks, but it doesnt - the only thing close to a gil-sink would be housing and thanks to price-reductions most housing isnt even one: apartments, FC-rooms and small houses only leave a tiny dent in most peoples pockets, while mediums might have a chance at that and mansions are to few to have a real impact. Other than that... when does the game asks you to spend money? You can buy beast tribe mounts for 200k each and thats it.

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Housing doesn't fail as a gil sink because of reduction, it fails because it's unavailable to most of the player base. Can't buy a house if there are no open plots. A gil sink only works if it's something actually available to sink gil into.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Housing doesn't fail as a gil sink because of reduction, it fails because it's unavailable to most of the player base. Can't buy a house if there are no open plots. A gil sink only works if it's something actually available to sink gil into.

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Yep, exactly.

WoW came up with a system where you could buy a token with cash, then sell it on the auction house to another player for gold. The buyer could then turn in the token for game time, effectively paying for the game with in-game currency.

So, players who want extra gold can buy it from other players with $$ through Blizzard.

It didn't stop the RMT sellers or the bots.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

WoW came up with a system where you could buy a token with cash, then sell it on the auction house to another player for gold. The buyer could then turn in the token for game time, effectively paying for the game with in-game currency.

So, players who want extra gold can buy it from other players with $$ through Blizzard.

It didn't stop the RMT sellers or the bots.

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The main thing it accomplished was allowing Blizzard to tap into the RMT market. They love their money above all else, even their dignity and product quality. It did, however, put a slight dent in RMT sellers because people can buy gold from Blizzard instead without having their accounts compromised or risking a ban.

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Originally Posted by ADarklore

Perhaps they should just increase the amount of gil that one can earn from various tasks.

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All this accomplishes is diminishing the value of already existing Gil in the system and will not solve anything. All things that are worthwhile to buy with Gil are sold by players, so prices will adjust accordingly to how easy Gil is to earn.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

WoW came up with a system where you could buy a token with cash, then sell it on the auction house to another player for gold. The buyer could then turn in the token for game time, effectively paying for the game with in-game currency.

So, players who want extra gold can buy it from other players with $$ through Blizzard.

It didn't stop the RMT sellers or the bots.

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It also made the cost of everything skyrocket since even if no one bought your token in 24 hours you got the gold anyhow. This mostly achieved flooding the game with more gold and ruined the economy even more.

I hope SE never implements anything like this.

its not hard to make gil and for most things you dont even need gil if you just farm / craft or gather stuff. so no, SE dont sell gil. their enough p2w games, just play them instead.

The only way to stop the bots and rmt shout is to stop buy Gil for real money.

SE need a big campaign and make clear to everyone that buying gil for real money will cause a permanent ban on the main character.
Also to make clear that they are not joking, they should tell us how many active players they banned and how active these players have been.
Like:
5 players has been banned, the most active had 2 years of in-game playtime.

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Originally Posted by Edax

In the context of fighting bots, the bots provide an exchange rate that 50 times better then the mogstation. Of course the bots are going to win that battle.

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The context is people saying "the game will be pay to win", what bots do or don't do doesn't matter, it's whether this would be pay to win or not. The game didn't die when they started selling gil through level boosts, it wouldn't die if they added some sort of sub token, just like GW2, WoW, ESO, RS/OSRS, EVE and countless others remain alive with similar systems.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Which isn't healthy for the game.

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And despite additional retainers being unhealthy for the game they have been here for what, 5 years now? And no doom and gloom, everything operates just fine, people who have them can earn more gil than those who don't, and it's all fine because gil is largely useless.

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Originally Posted by Curisu

The only way to stop the bots and rmt shout is to stop buy Gil for real money.

SE need a big campaign and make clear to everyone that buying gil for real money will cause a permanent ban on the main character.
Also to make clear that they are not joking, they should tell us how many active players they banned and how active these players have been.
Like:
5 players has been banned, the most active had 2 years of in-game playtime.

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I do find the sheer amount of transparency involved with the reporting system rather awkward.

It's rather customary for a MMO to at least tell you if a report has been read and whether or not it was actually acted on. With how poorly XIV handles things it makes me wonder if they're reading the reports at all.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

The context is people saying "the game will be pay to win", what bots do or don't do doesn't matter, it's whether this would be pay to win or not. The game didn't die when they started selling gil through level boosts

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Again, what's the point of asking for SE to sell gil if they already do? It's because the way SE does it is not enough as a means of earning gil.

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And despite additional retainers being unhealthy for the game they have been here for what, 5 years now? And no doom and gloom, everything operates just fine, people who have them can earn more gil than those who don't, and it's all fine because gil is largely useless.

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It's because you still have to have the items to sell and ventures for the retainers and even have to level up or boost each retainer. It is not a simple real money for gil exchange.

The only way the gilseller / botting issue ends, is if YOU the players STOP BUYING IT!

If they dont make money, they dont bother and move on to the next game.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The main thing it accomplished was allowing Blizzard to tap into the RMT market. They love their money above all else, even their dignity and product quality. It did, however, put a slight dent in RMT sellers because people can buy gold from Blizzard instead without having their accounts compromised or risking a ban.

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Actually, you didn't buy gold from Blizzard, you bought it from other players. The cash you paid to enable the transaction went to cover the seller's subscription when he traded the token for time, and a $5 handling fee to Blizzard.
The buyer was effectively paying cash for another player's game time, and getting that player's gold in return for it.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

Actually, you didn't buy gold from Blizzard, you bought it from other players. The cash you paid to enable the transaction went to cover the seller's subscription when he traded the token for time, and a $5 handling fee to Blizzard.
The buyer was effectively paying cash for another player's game time, and getting that player's gold in return for it.

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...and the money still goes to Blizzard, since it's the cost of a subscription fee.

Meh, if SE sold gil it wouldn't make the game pay to win in the slightest. What is there to even spend large amounts of gil on?

Houses?
HQ crafted gear?
Materia?

If SE sold gil and I suddenly bought, (let's be hyperbolic) 100 million gil right now, I wouldn't suddenly be able to go and get full BIS savage mode raid gear.

Where are people getting the idea of pw2 from? all gear in this game is easily obtainable from simply playing the game, doing your tome grind, ext primals savage stuff, I'm not even sure if you can buy that stuff, and even if you can, why would you do that in a game like this? if you buy your gear you're literally skipping "end game" to the point where you've literally just ended your game, there's nothing left to work for at end game, PvP? pretty sure your gear doesn't matter, open world pvp? doesn't even exist, so what do you win exactly? the fashion parade? lol

Seriously though, I think the idea of "pay to WIN" has had it's meaning nuked, at best this game would be "pay to progress faster" and it wouldn't even be in a way that would hinder literally anybodys gameplay at all, the only thing advancing gear does is open up a few more instances at end game, but even then, you hit level cap in SB and suddenly you can do all the current end-game dungeons anyway from getting the gear obtainable from completing your role quest, the only thing missing is ext primals and savage, something that not everyone does anyway and wouldn't somehow prevent people from doing it, especially when getting access to it is so incredibly easy.

You can already 'buy gil' legally. Every story skip/job boost potion comes with 500k. I have no idea where this stacks up against gil seller prices, but if someone wanted to they could just buy a bunch of these items, throw out the level up books and keep the gil from them as much as they wanted.

As for pay to win I don't really consider this pay to win, though I can see the arguement.

What is 'winning' in this game? Buying job boosts will get you to level 70 sure and a bit of gil. But even if that gil gets you crafted gear, so what?

In pvp, your gear doesn't even matter, so buying these boosts isn't helping you win in pvp.

In raids, buying crafted gear can be a help, but this gear isn't so expensive or valuable that I think this would count as pay to 'win' anyway especially with there being other sources of endgame gear, with savage gear being better.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Meh, if SE sold gil it wouldn't make the game pay to win in the slightest. What is there to even spend large amounts of gil on?

Houses?
HQ crafted gear?
Materia?

If SE sold gil and I suddenly bought, (let's be hyperbolic) 100 million gil right now, I wouldn't suddenly be able to go and get full BIS savage mode raid gear.

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It would cause inflation if SE just started selling gil without using the job skips/scenario skips (and again folks factor in the fact that they lose out on gil they could have earned without doing this, especially with the story skips... so it does even out some)

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Originally Posted by Vespar

The only way the gilseller / botting issue ends, is if YOU the players STOP BUYING IT!

If they dont make money, they dont bother and move on to the next game.

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No, this is not a valid statement because it implies some level of control over the playerbase. We cannot control the actions of RandomPlayer123 therefore if this is the solution then the botting issue will never end. We need to get SE to PREVENT the botting situation by making it so players can't do it in the first place, or having a handle on stopping it before players can purchase.

Blaming the players for buying Gil is like saying "people need to stop stealing from shops" instead of putting in proper security measures and alarms.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/a6/a698...fdd9d00331.jpg

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Originally Posted by Wiccan026

It would cause inflation if SE just started selling gil without using the job skips/scenario skips (and again folks factor in the fact that they lose out on gil they could have earned without doing this, especially with the story skips... so it does even out some)

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They wouldn't sell gil outright. They'd sell Crysta tokens or tradable items that players would buy for cash and sell on the MB. This means no gil is generated, it merely moves from one player to another.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

And despite additional retainers being unhealthy for the game they have been here for what, 5 years now? And no doom and gloom, everything operates just fine, people who have them can earn more gil than those who don't, and it's all fine because gil is largely useless.

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Just because it isn't doom and gloom that my mother has had cancer for 7 years now does not mean cancer is healthy or that everything is fine. It's still a problem. If gil was largely useless as you say, there wouldn't be all these bots farming gil so your premise is contradicted by the reality of the situation.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Meh, if SE sold gil it wouldn't make the game pay to win in the slightest. What is there to even spend large amounts of gil on?

Houses?
HQ crafted gear?
Materia?

If SE sold gil and I suddenly bought, (let's be hyperbolic) 100 million gil right now, I wouldn't suddenly be able to go and get full BIS savage mode raid gear.

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And what do you need that "full BIS savage mode raid gear" for when you've already beaten the optional difficult content? It's as optional as anything you get with gil and only there for people's enjoyment of the game, so might as well sell them too if you don't think selling gil is pay to win.

like Reiyu comment this because it use husky and I argee with it

I came up with a great idea to solve all the gil problems. We need a Gilfundme page. This way people who don’t have anything to spend gil on can donate to the less fortunate players. This could cut out the bots all together

Dude seriously made a forum account just to try and make the community buy and sell gil. Didn't get the responses he wanted, so he bolted AND his profile doesn't have an active character anymore. Sooooo I guess he quit. That's fine, botters literally do nothing in this game other than flood the market with materials that I need for crafting. Gil has no real value when each quest gives between 3k-10k for just talking to someone. I bought an entire set of HQ lv70 gear, right before SHB released. By just doing the MSQ, I made all of that gil back in an hour. No farming. No selling anything. Just quests.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

That's fine, botters literally do nothing in this game other than flood the market with materials that I need for crafting.

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If that good or bad?

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Originally Posted by linay

And what do you need that "full BIS savage mode raid gear" for when you've already beaten the optional difficult content? It's as optional as anything you get with gil and only there for people's enjoyment of the game, so might as well sell them too if you don't think selling gil is pay to win.

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In Rift you can buy entire raid sets for real money, that's all optional as well. Pay to win, means being able to buy something that makes you better than other players at the same level. Adding gil doesn't really do anything but let you buy some crafted (worse than tomestone/raid/dungeon gear in most cases) and houses (in the rare moments they're available). Pay to win to me, would be if it was like Rift where you could spend money and buy an entire set of raid gear for yourself that other players can only get by clearing the raid or forking over some dosh.

I'm not saying I'm for selling gil mind you, quite the opposite. Gil is so useless most of the time that there's no reason to buy it as far as I'm concerned. However I adamantly disagree with this notion that buying gil (regardless of the source) somehow trivializes the game and makes it pay to win. The notion is nonsensical and doesn't hold under any real scrutiny.