Reminder that war is still good.

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Originally Posted by Mahoukenshi

The survey is not conducted by JP gamers, but by "western" gamers (海​外 = overseas, abroad), which was probably translated into JP, seeing the the original source is on reddit. Jut mentioning it if the JP point of view should have been important.

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Oh, my misunderstanding. The JP point of view wasn't of any importance. I was just including what I thought was the source for transparency's sake (though I was wrong lol).
Thanks for the correction.

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Originally Posted by Rhyn

You only get Inner Chaos when you infuriate. It only happens once and it provides the gauge necessary for IC. It is essentially completely separate and acts identically in both scenarios. You don't get reduced Infuriate cooldown from FC anymore so I don't see how it effects anything at all. It should be pretty obvious I didn't mean you shout spend the 50 gauge from Infuriate on Onslaught instead of Inner Chaos.



See above for infuriate. Otherwise I don't see what you're trying to say here. Yes you have to replace a GCD when you FC, that's why I calculate the difference in pot from a FC and the average pot + gauge generation from your combos. In a hypothetical fight with 100% uptime on the boss, you do more dps by using Onslaught on CD, and using the gauge you can't spend on Onslaught on FCs. Upheaval is first priority of course.

*edit* Ah you're talking about raid buff windows. Yes in that case it matters what you can squeeze in. I don't take that into account.

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FC DOES reduce infuriate cd... you got ur facts wrong = (

I see people keep telling me FC reduces your Infuriate CD. I know it used to be that way, however...

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/warrior/ <- only two abilities there mention a cooldown reduction. Inner Chaos and Chaotic Cyclone.

*edit* yeah I see i missed Enhanced Infuriate.

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Originally Posted by Rhyn

You only get Inner Chaos when you infuriate. It only happens once and it provides the gauge necessary for IC. It is essentially completely separate and acts identically in both scenarios. You don't get reduced Infuriate cooldown from FC anymore so I don't see how it effects anything at all. It should be pretty obvious I didn't mean you shout spend the 50 gauge from Infuriate on Onslaught instead of Inner Chaos.

See above for infuriate. Otherwise I don't see what you're trying to say here. Yes you have to replace a GCD when you FC, that's why I calculate the difference in pot from a FC and the average pot + gauge generation from your combos. In a hypothetical fight with 100% uptime on the boss, you do more dps by using Onslaught on CD, and using the gauge you can't spend on Onslaught on FCs. Upheaval is first priority of course.

*edit* Ah you're talking about raid buff windows. Yes in that case it matters what you can squeeze in. I don't take that into account.

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All 4 skills reduce infuriate CD by 5 sec.

https://i.imgur.com/FsCsH5g.png

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

All 4 skills reduce infuriate CD by 5 sec.

https://i.imgur.com/FsCsH5g.png

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I question what they mean by "Most targets". I would assume hitting an Immune enemy might not lower the recast but I wonder what enemies/targets don't do it.

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Originally Posted by Rhyn

I see people keep telling me FC reduces your Infuriate CD. I know it used to be that way, however...

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/warrior/ <- only two abilities there mention a cooldown reduction. Inner Chaos and Chaotic Cyclone.

*edit* yeah I see i missed Enhanced Infuriate.

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Yea it's the trait "Reduces Infuriate recast time by 5 seconds upon landing Inner Beast, Steel Cyclone, Fell Cleave, or Decimate on most targets."

There's a lot of good and a lot of bad information in this thread. I think the bottom line for me is that I would have happily played Stormblood Warrior for another 2 years, so as far as I am concerned I got almost everything that I wanted. The only changes I'd really like to see on WAR are a little more single target damage, better AOE damage outside of Inner Release, and the ability to put Nascent Flash on yourself.

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Originally Posted by Poison_Rose

There's a lot of good and a lot of bad information in this thread. I think the bottom line for me is that I would have happily played Stormblood Warrior for another 2 years, so as far as I am concerned I got almost everything that I wanted. The only changes I'd really like to see on WAR are a little more single target damage, better AOE damage outside of Inner Release, and the ability to put Nascent Flash on yourself.

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What actually happens:

Yoshi-P: "Give them more Fellest Cleaves."

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Originally Posted by msoltyspl

Did we really ?



We (all tanks) lost anticipation (which statistically was not particularly amazing +30% chance for parry to happen) and awareness which had somewhat niche use in some scenarios (and was often paired with old version of raw intuition during trash pulls).

IMHO it doesn't feel like we lost anything relevant.

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actually if you look at the GNBs Camouflage skill its basicly just a better version of Anticipation, with the added 10% dmg reduction and 50% parry rate, which feel kinda under powered and a step backwards. but yeah you are right tanks ( espically the WAR) didnt lose much. also i though Onslaught was bad as well hell through all but the very end of SB i never had it on my hot bar because it cost BG. but i tryed it out and it has many more uses out side of IF or IR. i use it all the time to pop back into the boses face after they do AOE's. plus the fact that BG dosent go away unless used means most the time i end up having a ready 20 BG to use.

Ever since it was added to the game, Warrior has existed in one of two states: "Highest damage Tank" or "About to be buffed". Thus, it's overwhelmingly likely that a Warrior buff is already in the pipeline. It wouldn't be the end of the world if it isn't, though. The number of people demanding a self applying Nascent Flash amuses me, though. Guess that's just a consequence of the odd over-removal of Warrior's self heals.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

Ever since it was added to the game, Warrior has existed in one of two states: "Highest damage Tank" or "About to be buffed". Thus, it's overwhelmingly likely that a Warrior buff is already in the pipeline. It wouldn't be the end of the world if it isn't, though. The number of people demanding a self applying Nascent Flash amuses me, though. Guess that's just a consequence of the odd over-removal of Warrior's self heals.

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Equilibrium is really good now so that sorta helps. I'm actually kind of okay with NF having a party restriction in pve, but in pvp, it's gotta go.

Onslaught is just weird because it taps on a dps resource.

And beast guage as a resource is meh. I almost wish we used mana instead at this point.

Or have beast guage regen out of combat with the aura only showing while in combat.

Also, with the change to infuriate makes it required to inner chaos before IR during opening on a boss. Toss in the need to single target combo for eye on top of it, and it feels slightly clunky.

Would be nice if Inner Chaos and IR made the attacks always do max damage as if under eye buff. That way we can cut out hte eye combo before IR and get straight to IR during an opening, a d delay eye combo until afterwards.

Or something like that to make applyjng and maintaining eye buff smoother and easier.

Yea I watched Xeno's recent tank video, all I have to say is glad he is apparently maining DRK now. Maybe it's old timer's disease.

I don't get how after putting up eye for nearly 6 years it's all of a sudden become clunky. It's the same 3 GCDs it's always been lol. Furthermore, WAR doesn't have near the amount of oGCDs that DRK has to warrant getting rid of the combo. Spam path and Fell Cleave, wow such depth. It wouldn't be good for the job IMO.

I could however see Eye being extended to 40 sec, a minor buff since it would allow for more Path & Cleaves.

Agreed. Xeno has some decent stuff but he spews some BS too and people seem to eat it up. His rant on applying eye is one of those headscratchers. War has always been the only tank job that needed a wind up. Pld has always just plopped out fof and gone to town. Drk just engages and off it goes. War had literally been a 3gcd wind up for slashing and self damage buff for all time and now its 'clunky'?

Xeno is why were memecleave now because people blindly bought into his 'rng crit QQ' sob story that had no basis in reality if you checked the math. Now hes trying to delete eye because....reasons. i too am glad he might move away from war and stop mucking it up with his 'influencer' power. The internet is great at spreading ideas. Unfortunately no distinction between good and bad ones.

The bigger problem is actually Path, which is functionally useless outside of giving you 10 extra gauge. Not exactly the most exciting combo, is it? At least with Eye you get a good boost to your damage. Maim is even more useless than Path or Eye since it literally just exists to be the 2nd part of your combo. I think there's a worthwhile argument to be made that they should really look into the combo system in general tbh.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

The bigger problem is actually Path, which is functionally useless outside of giving you 10 extra gauge. Not exactly the most exciting combo, is it? At least with Eye you get a good boost to your damage. Maim is even more useless than Path or Eye since it literally just exists to be the 2nd part of your combo. I think there's a worthwhile argument to be made that they should really look into the combo system in general tbh.

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Right so because path combo dosent give a dmg boost get rid of it? You apparently dont pay attention the path combo is pretty much the only self heal a WAR can spam, and its a decent heal i heal for about 4 to 5 k last i checked i only just lvl 78.

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Originally Posted by cjparmen

Right so because path combo dosent give a dmg boost get rid of it? You apparently dont pay attention the path combo is pretty much the only self heal a WAR can spam, and its a decent heal i heal for about 4 to 5 k last i checked i only just lvl 78.

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I mean, the only situation you'd use Path in is on bosses... and the only damage that matters on bosses is tank busters and cleaves, which you won't be able to heal with just a 4-5k heal. The healing effect is essentially useless, which is why Path is essentially useless outside of it giving you the 10 extra gauge. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather it actually did something beneficial defensively - like a bigger heal or maybe a shield effect, but as it stands it's just Eye with 10 extra gauge and no beneficial effect.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I don't get how after putting up eye for nearly 6 years it's all of a sudden become clunky. It's the same 3 GCDs it's always been lol. Furthermore, WAR doesn't have near the amount of oGCDs that DRK has to warrant getting rid of the combo. Spam path and Fell Cleave, wow such depth. It wouldn't be good for the job IMO.

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It seems, generally speaking, that "clunky" = "thing I don't like"

About Xeno and other youtubers/streamers, the thing is they simply voice their opinion and thats it, those are opinions, same as in the forums/reddit or other platforms. You either agree or disagree and everyone might share or have different opinions. The problem comes when people start just "eating" everything up, as izsha said, and repeat the same statements those people made, like sheep.

I can see where he (xeno) is coming from, like no wind up and all, and that since removing the debuff on eye has changed things and how the skill works, but for me nothing really changed. None of the tanks actually uses their dmb buff right from the pull, be it in dungeon or raid environment, so having to use 3 gcd's to apply warriors dmg buff is a non issue. Where i start having issues with the buff is in dungeon environment and aoe situations in general. Sure we always had to do this in the past, but it feels a bit awkward to having to do a single target combo once you grouped up the mobs you pulled. Yes you can do the combo while you grab them and go to the next pack, but its no less awkward of doing this. But this isse could be resolved by letting our aoe combo apply the eye combo buff with a shorter duration then the single target combo, as it was already proposed by whiskybravo in another thread. Still i don't care about dps in dungeon environments or rather anything below extreme and savage content, since they are pretty much faceroll and would just be a qol thing for me.

Increasing the buff duration will not change much for the buff itself, but will alternate the rotation and playstyle a bit and might complicate things unnecessarily, without thinking about it much, it might put more emphasis for onslaught to be used more as a gauge dump (also more frequently) or fellcleave, since we will use at least 1 more path combo thanks to increased eye duration. If its good or bad i cannot say, will be pure speculation and i am not in the mood for theorycrafting atm. Also i am against outright removing the skill, since i much more preffer eye combo animation over path..

Also i don't see the clunkyness of inner release and infuriate. Rather i think people still have the muscle-memory or the old habit of using infuriate inside inner release for gauge increase. Its the same as if paladins were to use fight or flight> requiescat>holy spam instantly without using the fight or flight duration to its fullest. I mention this specifically since he made the example of party finder groups and what he sees from other people.

Path combo is fine.

I took my 70 WAR alt via DR into The Aery last night. Trash pulls, one group, were kicking the stuffing out of me and the healer was constantly healing me, even with cooldowns.

WAR is not okay. Pre 5.0 I took much less damage in that same dungeon with the same gear. In fact, I took way less damage everywhere I've been since the expansion launched. The reason my WAR is still 70 and my PLD is 80 is that I hate how squishy my WAR is and the PLD is more bearable now, even though it also is still squishy at il440+

Whatever they did to our mitigation, they need to reverse it. Everyone compares the tanks via damage numbers - we're not DPS, we're supposed to be able to take several hits...

Don't tell me it's "okay at 80" because that's just elitist rubbish. People have to GET to 80 first.

(The main problem I have found on these forums over the many years I've been here is that there is a vocal group whose main replies can be summed up as "I like the difficulty - it's all great - get good scrub." and the average player doesn't feel that way. It's supposed to be a game where you can have fun with a reasonable level of competence. They'll probably chip in several times in all the threads like this. If they are who the devs actually listen to, that's why we're screwed.)

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Originally Posted by Rabin

I took my 70 WAR alt via DR into The Aery last night. Trash pulls, one group, were kicking the stuffing out of me and the healer was constantly healing me, even with cooldowns.

WAR is not okay. Pre 5.0 I took much less damage in that same dungeon with the same gear. In fact, I took way less damage everywhere I've been since the expansion launched. The reason my WAR is still 70 and my PLD is 80 is that I hate how squishy my WAR is and the PLD is more bearable now, even though it also is still squishy at il440+

Whatever they did to our mitigation, they need to reverse it. Everyone compares the tanks via damage numbers - we're not DPS, we're supposed to be able to take several hits...

Don't tell me it's "okay at 80" because that's just elitist rubbish. People have to GET to 80 first.

(The main problem I have found on these forums over the many years I've been here is that there is a vocal group whose main replies can be summed up as "I like the difficulty - it's all great - get good scrub." and the average player doesn't feel that way. It's supposed to be a game where you can have fun with a reasonable level of competence. They'll probably chip in several times in all the threads like this. If they are who the devs actually listen to, that's why we're screwed.)

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I haven't tanked much low level stuff since i used DR's for leveling alt jobs and am not aware of any dmg increases in older dungeons, but since they took out a lot of stuff , you simply miss a few mitigation skills, which might have been available previously or simply you haven't unlocked yet. Namely lvl 56 Raw Intuition, lvl 58 Equilibrium, lvl 68 Shake it Off, all of those you can use as mitigation, or have to use right now in higher lvl dungeons to cycle through. You don't have access to Anticipation,Convalescence, Awareness anymore and also the mitigation and self-heal on Inner Beast is gone too. But for that you have a built in 20% dmg reduction as a passive trait. Also as an advice, you should incorporate Arm's Length into your mitigation rotation, since it applies "Slow" which slows down the attack speed of the mobs and the frequency of their ability use. Does not work on some mobs(immune to status effects, but those are rare and usually every mob gets this debuff in dungeons) and bosses.

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Originally Posted by Rabin

(The main problem I have found on these forums over the many years I've been here is that there is a vocal group whose main replies can be summed up as "I like the difficulty - it's all great - get good scrub." and the average player doesn't feel that way. It's supposed to be a game where you can have fun with a reasonable level of competence. They'll probably chip in several times in all the threads like this. If they are who the devs actually listen to, that's why we're screwed.)

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Here's the problem,its actually complete opposite: SE listens to people that don't know how to play the job correctly, that's the reason why we have less skills than we did 2 expansions ago(some of those were skills that people didn't use which is good, there shouldn't a skill bloat, but they could've made them useful instead of removing completely). People get upset that there are players who outperform them those "tryhards", "elitists", but they deserve to outperform them, because they try more, they spend time perfecting rotations and optimisation. But instead of blaming themselves those "average players" blame job design and jobs get completely butchered, so good players that actually enjoyed difficulty get screwed. Their favourite job is no longer fun which is heartbreaking honestly. Some people may say "difficult does not equal fun", but how come when asked what was the most fun iteration of drk for example, people always refer to 3.0 drk when it had the biggest apm and was one of the more difficult jobs. I can't see what's fun in pressing baindead 5 buttons and seeing high numbers without even trying(current IR btw), but i do see fun in perfecting a hard rotation, squeezing the most out of the job, optimizing every last bit of it, and getting better at it with every fight.

I'm not by any means a top savage raider, but to me it seems extremely egotistical, when people want to ruin fun for other players just because they can't be bothered to learn their job to at least decent level. If those "average players" actually loved their classes they would've tried their best to master it, not butcher it. Average players if they call themselves that should be fine with average performance.

The takeaway here is SE shouldn't listen to either every other "scrub" nor should it listen to "1% top player base", cause those people care only about numbers and not what is actually fun.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Yea I watched Xeno's recent tank video, all I have to say is glad he is apparently maining DRK now. Maybe it's old timer's disease.

I don't get how after putting up eye for nearly 6 years it's all of a sudden become clunky. It's the same 3 GCDs it's always been lol. Furthermore, WAR doesn't have near the amount of oGCDs that DRK has to warrant getting rid of the combo. Spam path and Fell Cleave, wow such depth. It wouldn't be good for the job IMO.

I could however see Eye being extended to 40 sec, a minor buff since it would allow for more Path & Cleaves.

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Eye was never 3 gcds. What we call eye now was the old maim buff.

And its clunky now because no other tank has to deal with it.

Eye was removed for pvp and its much smoother that way.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Agreed. Xeno has some decent stuff but he spews some BS too and people seem to eat it up. His rant on applying eye is one of those headscratchers. War has always been the only tank job that needed a wind up. Pld has always just plopped out fof and gone to town. Drk just engages and off it goes. War had literally been a 3gcd wind up for slashing and self damage buff for all time and now its 'clunky'?

Xeno is why were memecleave now because people blindly bought into his 'rng crit QQ' sob story that had no basis in reality if you checked the math. Now hes trying to delete eye because....reasons. i too am glad he might move away from war and stop mucking it up with his 'influencer' power. The internet is great at spreading ideas. Unfortunately no distinction between good and bad ones.

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I like "memecleave."

Xeno had 2 major complains about WAR.

1 - need 3 GCDs for 10% buff at pull (4 if you count the tomahawk).
2 - need a minor potency increase on some weaponskills.


That is all the changes warrior needs, no onslaught dumb changes please.

We need at least 7 skills merged into one, 3 is not enough. xD

But on the serious side note, it would be cool if they changed our gauge skills into oGCD with 2.4 sec CD.

Why does war siddenly 'need' to get rid of eyes 3gcds when it has been fine with it for 5 years? The other tabks always had faster ramp so that didnt change either so war isnt any more relatively slow than ever before.

Xeno says it and suddenly its a problem? No one has mentioned this 'problem' in 5 years until a youtube personality said it. If you want to change it, then articulate some reasons WHY. Dont just parrot stuff someone else said.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Why does war siddenly 'need' to get rid of eyes 3gcds when it has been fine with it for 5 years? The other tabks always had faster ramp so that didnt change either so war isnt any more relatively slow than ever before.

Xeno says it and suddenly its a problem? No one has mentioned this 'problem' in 5 years until a youtube personality said it. If you want to change it, then articulate some reasons WHY. Dont just parrot stuff someone else said.

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I don't know where your 5 years come from but the Eye was added to the 3rd combo in Stormblood, before that the effect was applied by maim which is our 2nd GCD.
Eye became an issue now because the combo effect of Mythril Tempest is mocking us with the increased timer on Eye, which makes us the only tanks that have to worry about applying their buff in mob groups where as others don't have to.
Now that every tank has AoEs WAR feels cluncky with the Eye effect where other tanks just do it with either a buff or a OGCD.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

I don't know where your 5 years come from but the Eye was added to the 3rd combo in Stormblood, before that the effect was applied by maim which is our 2nd GCD.
Eye became an issue now because the combo effect of Mythril Tempest is mocking us with the increased timer on Eye, which makes us the only tanks that have to worry about applying their buff in mob groups where as others don't have to.
Now that every tank has AoEs WAR feels cluncky with the Eye effect where other tanks just do it with either a buff or a OGCD.

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Ive been here since 2.0 playing war the entire time. War had the slashing buff on eye before they swapped it with maim. You ALWAYS had a full 3gcd combo ramp up since this game has existed. It used to he to get slashing and damage buff, then just damage buff.

Other tabks have ALWAYS had an ogcd to get up and running. Pld never had a ranp up. Even in 2.0 it was fof and 1 rage of halone. There was no ramp. Boom go while war was eye combo. Drk has never had a ranp. Darkside used to be an always on buff before the fight. Now you have to hit an ogcd to turn it on. The only job that got slower to apply their buff is drk because darkside isnt on before engaging.

So your logic is that eye is 'clunky" because other tabks have an ogcd. But that has literrally always been the case. It was clunky last month, last year, and 5 years ago but no one noticed or cared until xeno said it. Now its a 'problem'.

The aoe argument is even worse because war, againx has always been the job trying to manage a st combo with aoe. But now its easier because you can extend it. War got LESS clunky in aoe thanks to tempest extending eye and giv8ng gauge.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

So your logic is that eye is 'clunky" because other tabks have an ogcd. But that has literrally always been the case. It was clunky last month, last year, and 5 years ago but no one noticed or cared until xeno said it. Now its a 'problem'.

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I'm far from a top level WAR but my feeling is that Eye started to felt clunky when Path receive the additionnal gauge, thus giving the feeling that applying Eye "reduced" your DPS by delaying your next Fell Cleave. The more I think about it, the more I feel that the completely-awesome-over-the-top-Fell-Cleave brought WAR into this uncomfortable position that this is the only skill that matters.

On a sidenote, as a main DRK, I'd take maintaning DArkside with a 3-step combo any day just for breaking our 1-2-3 rotation over and over.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Snip

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I'm not saying I agree. But, I can also see where people are coming from on this. Yes, historically warrior has always had a 3 combo wind up to aoe. But, historically warrior also had the best aoe of the tanks, and the trade off we thought was the wind up. But I am not sure this is the case anymore. I think that is the clunk that people are grappling with currently. Is the wind up worth it to be 3rd best in aoe?

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I'm not saying I agree. But, I can also see where people are coming from on this. Yes, historically warrior has always had a 3 combo wind up to aoe. But, historically warrior also had the best aoe of the tanks, and the trade off we thought was the wind up. But I am not sure this is the case anymore. I think that is the clunk that people are grappling with currently. Is the wind up worth it to be 3rd best in aoe?

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I'm like half certain IR Decimate, IF Chaos, and Nascent Flash still win out an easy first place.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I'm like half certain IR Decimate, IF Chaos, and Nascent Flash still win out an easy first place.

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Can you offer something to support your half certain? Also Nascent Flash isn't damage its HP restore so not sure how that is a factor here. I agree warrior has some powerful aoe options. For example IR spam is about 2342 factoring in direct hit and crit. Paladin magic spam over the same number of GCDs is 2700 potency before crits and direct hits and its up more often. Then you need to compare that with boosted physical combo also up every minute as well as circle of scorn. Paladin has some nice aoe.

No edit option on phone. Potencies reported are per target. The only reason I can guess Nascent Flash is mentioned is to try to bring in a variable about healer dps I would imagine.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Can you offer something to support your half certain? Also Nascent Flash isn't damage its HP restore so not sure how that is a factor here. I agree warrior has some powerful aoe options. For example IR spam is about 2342 factoring in direct hit and crit. Paladin magic spam over the same number of GCDs is 2700 potency before crits and direct hits and its up more often. Then you need to compare that with boosted physical combo also up every minute as well as circle of scorn. Paladin has some nice aoe.

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I'm honestly too tired to do math.

That said, I did forget that Paladin has absurd AoE now, but the two should be pretty even in practical scenarios.

Honestly, I think the "issue" is that Storm's Eye doesn't feel very rewarding.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Honestly, I think the "issue" is that Storm's Eye doesn't feel very rewarding.

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To be quite honest, I would love having combo finishers that had cooldowns on them.

3 or 4 combo finishers, the '3' in a 1 2 3 line, and have them have something like 7.5 second cooldowns, and then give them more impactful effects.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

I'm not saying I agree. But, I can also see where people are coming from on this. Yes, historically warrior has always had a 3 combo wind up to aoe. But, historically warrior also had the best aoe of the tanks, and the trade off we thought was the wind up. But I am not sure this is the case anymore. I think that is the clunk that people are grappling with currently. Is the wind up worth it to be 3rd best in aoe?

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2 points.

1. Not all the rise of eye complaints are about aoe. Some cite single target ramp up as unfair because other tanks have no ramp. "4 gcds if you count tomahawk" in the post i responded to for example. So the loss of aoe damage trade off is wholely irrelivant here. This ramp up in single target has ALWAYS been there between eye and slashing you always had to setup 3 gcds to be at full power at all points in 14s history and other tanks had functionally zero.

2. If eye is 'clunky' (in aoe) because war was designed to have stronger aoe and eye was compensation, and war no longer has the aoe damage to justify eye then there is a simple solution to that. Increase wars aoe damage to restore that tradeoff. The alternative is the always hated homogenization. "I dont have what other tanks have so gimme" just means all tanks end up with 1 combo and insta damage buffs. If aoe damage is to lacking to justify the expense of putting eye up, then dont remove eye. Return war to the state that no one thought eye was a problem instead.

Persoanlly i dont think it is an issue because you can put up eye 2-3x per dungeon with the extensions built in, and in raid scenarios you never just go cold turkey into an aoe phase and should already have eye anyway. But if the masses really feel war aoe is a problem then by all means adjust it. Dont trim down the simplest job with the fewest actions to arr 123+flash paladin. Just because other tanks dont have a ramp up doesnt mean the solution is to make war even more like every other tank when there are still active threads complaining about drk having 1 combo and simplifying their aoe rotation. 1 combo wonders for even more tanks, ill pass. If this really must be considered a problem at all, there are far more elegant solutions.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Snip

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Again, not saying I agree with them that this is clunky. in ST this breaks up the 123 spam which dark knight currently deals with. I don't think its really an issue to apply this before starting aoe or st.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Xeno had 2 major complains about WAR.

1 - need 3 GCDs for 10% buff at pull (4 if you count the tomahawk).
2 - need a minor potency increase on some weaponskills.


That is all the changes warrior needs, no onslaught dumb changes please.

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You sure about that? I distincly remember him saying onslaught needed a change since it was in a weird spot.