Dark Knight follow up thread

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Originally Posted by MerlinCross

I was real tired when I was typing that out. But that point is I feel we lost a lot of stuff or nerfed and what have we gained? Inner Release and a buff to our AoE game which wasn't terrible, like it wasn't Ninja. Also I could have sworn we still had the blind tagged to Dark Passenger for Stormblood. Already losing my memory of what stuff did because it's just straight up gone.

I just feel like I'm not doing anything when I play DRK. Sure I actually might be doing more actions but it's spam with less buttons so it doesn't feel like it. And as much as I loved TBN in Stormblood, this really needs to get nerfed. Look I love it, it's still very good, but if something isn't going to change, we're probably going to just get balanced around TBN going forward.

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DRK still had Dark Passenger in Stormblood but it was heavily nerfed but still had the blind effect, and then they outright removed it but replaced it with Flood of Darkness/Shadwow which I feel is a lazy way of introducing new things to what was originally the first expert tank and now it's lumped in with the beginner's tanks...

I also feel like I'm doing nothing on DRK when waiting on cooldowns or 50 Blood to use whatever Blood spender I can use based on the situation...

The AOE combo at such a late time in the game is just bad IMO.

Blood weapon needs to be 15s duration or reworked completely.

LD, thats a dead horse.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

DRK still had Dark Passenger in Stormblood but it was heavily nerfed but still had the blind effect, and then they outright removed it but replaced it with Flood of Darkness/Shadwow which I feel is a lazy way of introducing new things to what was originally the first expert tank and now it's lumped in with the beginner's tanks...

I also feel like I'm doing nothing on DRK when waiting on cooldowns or 50 Blood to use whatever Blood spender I can use based on the situation...

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I honestly hated Dark Passenger 4800 MP for a blind? Great thanks. It was super situational and you used it maybe a handful of times in raids like O3S or O7S for adds other than that wasn't worth the cost associated with it I like FoS where I can even get a free one with TBN much more engaging than blowing half my mana for a mediocre blind.

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Originally Posted by Awful

I honestly hated Dark Passenger 4800 MP for a blind? Great thanks. It was super situational and you used it maybe a handful of times in raids like O3S or O7S for adds other than that wasn't worth the cost associated with it I like FoS where I can even get a free one with TBN much more engaging than blowing half my mana for a mediocre blind.

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The solution was to buff the potency to justify the absurd MP cost but NOPE replacing it with a more quarter-baked skill seems to be the better alternative...

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

The solution was to buff the potency to justify the absurd MP cost but NOPE replacing it with a more quarter-baked skill seems to be the better alternative...

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It's better than Dark Passenger, blind is pretty worthless it does 20 more potency at a better cost I don't get why you defend it when it wasn't very good at all, if I wanted to blind things I'd play old HW DRK when you could have used DP at a better cost with Dark Dance and it was only good in dungeons. Either way old DP was crap and I'm glad it's gone I like FoS, it's DP but does a smidge more damage and gives me Darkside, is it complex? No. Doesn't have to be. It's the natural evolution for DRK for DP because it was bad.

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Originally Posted by Awful

It's better than Dark Passenger, blind is pretty worthless it does 20 more potency at a better cost I don't get why you defend it when it wasn't very good at all, if I wanted to blind things I'd play old HW DRK when you could have used DP at a better cost with Dark Dance and it was only good in dungeons. Either way old DP was crap and I'm glad it's gone I like FoS, it's DP but does a smidge more damage and gives me Darkside, is it complex? No. Doesn't have to be. It's the natural evolution for DRK for DP because it was bad.

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So you like sitting there doing nothing for 80 seconds waiting for Delirium to come off cooldown...? How is that interesting...? I seriously want to know. How is spamming the same 3 buttons waiting for for other buttons to come of cooldown, while also pressing 1 or 2 additional button in between, both fun and interesting?

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

So you like sitting there doing nothing for 80 seconds waiting for Delirium to come off cooldown...? How is that interesting...? I seriously want to know. How is spamming the same 3 buttons waiting for for other buttons to come of cooldown, while also pressing 1 or 2 additional button in between, both fun and interesting?

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I never mentioned Delirium in any of my posts but since you bring it up, do I dislike it? A little since it's a carbon copy of WARs IR but lesser, that's my opinion on it I do find value with BW and CnS despite DRK being slowed down I never liked old Delirium that extended BW DRK should be a heavy hitter and Delirium is a good base but it should't be so similar to WARs burst.

There should have been another way to do their burst while fitting it in the burst window, because this game is all about burst DPS within certain party buffs, I don't mind playing DRK at all for many reasons just because you don't see that and find it boring doesn't mean that I agree. I play GNB and DRK and they're both a blast to play ones fast and ones a heavy hitter there's enough there to want me keep playing either because I love how FFXIV lets me switch on the fly at anytime I want.

Do I wanna do Titania EX as a GNB? Nah I'll go DRK and see how I can DPS balls to the wall while using TBN effectively for DPS gains and mitigation and fitting my burst in, even if it is predictable, then I can switch out and go GNB for Innocence EX for a shake up. Yes I'm aware DRK only has a 1-2-3 and a 4 when you get blood but to me it's not as boring as other classes like I cannot for the life of me play Monk I loathe playing Monk, to me that's boring and I never wanna touch it but opinions are opinions and are ever changing I'm not trying to convince you play what you find interesting just like I'll play what I want to play.

I know a lot of people aren't happy with Delirium and there are valid concerns I honestly don't know what they could do to make it better or unique exclusively to DRK.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

So you like sitting there doing nothing for 80 seconds waiting for Delirium to come off cooldown...? How is that interesting...? I seriously want to know. How is spamming the same 3 buttons waiting for for other buttons to come of cooldown, while also pressing 1 or 2 additional button in between, both fun and interesting?

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I agree that spamming soul eater again is very disheartening, but the new skills help break it up. I think what would fix DRk's extreme downtime is just shortened CDs, like come on not everything needs to be an entire minute long. GNB feels fast (imo) because of the short cds, which really helps make the job feel like you're constantly pressing things even though you may just be pressing the same button. Like damn, imagine if gnashing fang was like a minute long CD. It realy sucks if they made DRK slow just because they want GNB to be the only fast tank. I'm leveling up PLD atm so I don't know if the new sword oath mechanic and confiteor skill helps break up the royal authority (after goring blade) spam because I'm already tired of seeing riot blade lol.

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Originally Posted by Awful

I know a lot of people aren't happy with Delirium and there are valid concerns I honestly don't know what they could do to make it better or unique exclusively to DRK.

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I call what they did with Delirium "uninspired" because there a couple of easy things that they could've done to make it feel different.

I would like to preface my following comments by saying that these are not suggestions for changes as I don't think that they are going to make any changes nor does this take into consideration for potency balances or the need for double weaving. These are just examples for other ways they could have made Delirium create a spammy burst window to hit 5/6 skills while not being just a copy of inner release:

#1) 45 sec cd and 7 sec duration, with the same skill otherwise.

#2) 90 sec cd and 10 sec duration, giving us a permanent Dark Arts proc during the duration or make all atks give the Dark Arts proc during the duration.

#3) 45 sec CD, fills our MP bar and Blood gauge to maximum then gives us a Dark Arts proc.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

At least Continuation changes to the appropriate attack name when you are using Gnashing Fang Combo, which is surprisingly macro friendly... I might name the macro "Mashing Fang" since that is basically how macro friendly it is... although I think Koji Fox knew someone would make a Gnashing Fang Macro with that name...

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First you complain about drk being slow and clunky, and now you are using super clunky macros on gnb which are also slowing him down.
Hmmmmm
Idk if you could even double weave with these macros without clipping, since its slowing your input a lot due tothe queue nature of the game..

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

First you complain about drk being slow and clunky, and now you are using super clunky macros on gnb which are also slowing him down.
Hmmmmm
Idk if you could even double weave with these macros without clipping, since its slowing your input a lot due tothe queue nature of the game..

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As someone who used to use Salted Earth Marco, I noticed no issues with Gnashing Fang Macro, since all you need to do is mash the macro button, whereas Salted Earth and similar macros don't even place the the thing to activate the effect.

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Originally Posted by Sancho_Nyanta

I call what they did with Delirium "uninspired" because there a couple of easy things that they could've done to make it feel different.

I would like to preface my following comments by saying that these are not suggestions for changes as I don't think that they are going to make any changes nor does this take into consideration for potency balances or the need for double weaving. These are just examples for other ways they could have made Delirium create a spammy burst window to hit 5/6 skills while not being just a copy of inner release:

#1) 45 sec cd and 7 sec duration, with the same skill otherwise.

#2) 90 sec cd and 10 sec duration, giving us a permanent Dark Arts proc during the duration or make all atks give the Dark Arts proc during the duration.

#3) 45 sec CD, fills our MP bar and Blood gauge to maximum then gives us a Dark Arts proc.

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I actually liked the fact Delirium used to extend Blood Weapon and restores MP, but right now a lot of this more "wait until next expac to see anything meaningful overhauls" but one can have hopes and dreams...


So first The Blackest Night is just more hindrance due to it just giving a free Flood/Edge of Darkness/Shadow and gives 25% HP shield (which can be even more punishing when you could have used that 3k MP for Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow) over 50 Blood Gauge, the 50 Blood Gauge was way better in my opinion because at least it was a guaranteed DPS gain or loss based on whether or not the shield broke, but early level mitigation is BAD, and 1 fix for this is bring back Shadowskin, and have it upgrade into The Blackest Night.


Second is Blood Weapon, I REALLY WISH Blood Weapon restore HP on hit because it's less stress for me(and DRKs in general) and less stress on the healers...


Third is Delirium... change it back so that it restores MP, extends Blood Weapon, and have it restore HP... and if they really want to push Living Shadow as the level 80 ultimate, then they can add the current Delirum effect as a level 80 trait...


But because the devs are more worried about drawing the WARs ire about how their DPS is crap compared to GNB, they will never do any of these changes until next expansion...


And on a side note, I see no reason bring DRK and WAR over GNB and PLD since DRK and WAR have the worst utility in the game, and probably the worst DPS even if you are playing optimally...

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

As someone who used to use Salted Earth Marco, I noticed no issues with Gnashing Fang Macro, since all you need to do is mash the macro button, whereas Salted Earth and similar macros don't even place the the thing to activate the effect.

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If you put everything into one button the clipping is super terrible, and it sometimes does not use continuation if you press this button too often.

Even if you put on all 3 buttons a macro with continuation its still a problem.

Dont macro these skills with continuation, and dont macro them all together it will hurt your flow and you will hurt your rotation with it. Usage of macros comes with some heavy input lag or whatever it is causing it.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

If you put everything into one button the clipping is super terrible, and it sometimes does not use continuation if you press this button too often.

Even if you put on all 3 buttons a macro with continuation its still a problem.

Dont macro these skills with continuation, and dont macro them all together it will hurt your flow and you will hurt your rotation with it. Usage of macros comes with some heavy input lag or whatever it is causing it.

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Have you tried it yourself on GNB? Because I'm getting the feeling that you haven't tried it yourself, but I also get this feeling that you just hate macros in general...

Either way, Gnashing Fang Macro I haven't noticed too many issues and unless someone at Square-Enix tells me to stop using that macro, then I will stop using that macro, but as far as I'm concerned, Macros are within Terms of Service as macros are a part of the game, and therefore I will keep using it, unless there is proof that the macros are causing HUGE lag spikes which as far as I can tell with FF14 spaghetti code everything cause lag spikes...

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Have you tried it yourself on GNB? Because I'm getting the feeling that you haven't tried it yourself, but I also get this feeling that you just hate macros in general...

Either way, Gnashing Fang Macro I haven't noticed too many issues and unless someone at Square-Enix tells me to stop using that macro, then I will stop using that macro, but as far as I'm concerned, Macros are within Terms of Service as macros are a part of the game, and therefore I will keep using it, unless there is proof that the macros are causing HUGE lag spikes which as far as I can tell with FF14 spaghetti code everything cause lag spikes...

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Yes i tried it just right now, its terrible.
You should never do macro on this skills, clipping is everywhere anytime you want to squish in one extra oGCD into rotation.
Its super bad when you make it one button, with 3 separate buttons you have no space to breathe in double weaving if you fail you clip, its harder than doing it without macro.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Yes i tried it just right now, its terrible.
You should never do macro on this skills, clipping is everywhere anytime you want to squish in one extra oGCD into rotation.
Its super bad when you make it one button, with 3 separate buttons you have no space to breathe in double weaving if you fail you clip, its harder than doing it without macro.

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You gotta mash it like you were doing the active time maneuver in Shinryu fight.

also macro needs to be as follows;

/micon "Gnashing Fang"
/action "Continuation"
/action "Gnashing Fang"
/action "Savage Claw"
/action "Wicked Talon"

Macros have a intented delay to make it bad on combos, only targeting macros on skill that need it like salted heart are consider acceptable and don't hurt you performance.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

You gotta mash it like you were doing the active time maneuver in Shinryu fight.

also macro needs to be as follows;

/micon "Gnashing Fang"
/action "Continuation"
/action "Gnashing Fang"
/action "Savage Claw"
/action "Wicked Talon"

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I'd never use a macro especially for Continuation you're gonna delay and clip losing in lots of DPS not to mention if you mess one up GNB gets punished heavily if you mess up your burst windows vs any other tank, as Shao said Salted Earth is the only one that doesn't hurt because it's ground targeted since it's faster due to the animation skip.

Not to mention in your opener you use 1 Gnashing Fang + 1 continuation then you use your DoTs/OGCDs so it messes it up even more.

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Originally Posted by shao32

Macros have a intented delay to make it bad on combos, only targeting macros on skill that need it like salted heart are consider acceptable and don't hurt you performance.

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Originally Posted by Awful

I'd never use a macro especially for Continuation you're gonna delay and clip losing in lots of DPS not to mention if you mess one up GNB gets punished heavily if you mess up your burst windows vs any other tank, as Shao said Salted Earth is the only one that doesn't hurt because it's ground targeted since it's faster due to the animation skip.

Not to mention in your opener you use 1 Gnashing Fang + 1 continuation then you use your DoTs/OGCDs so it messes it up even more.

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I seem to get the opposite effects from those 2 macros, also Gnashing Fang Macro I use when I'm waiting for No Mercy to come off cooldown.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

I seem to get the opposite effects from those 2 macros, also Gnashing Fang Macro I use when I'm waiting for No Mercy to come off cooldown.

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We'll think about it in this way instead, a macro for gnashing fan combo will take over 6 seconds to being used, on that time you are unable to weave anything properly so you become vulnerable and your mitigations won't affect you on time or whatever, if you have to run out the boss mid combo the macro will be interrupted and other stuff, in resume you will have way less chance to adapt on combat.

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Originally Posted by shao32

We'll think about it in this way instead, a macro for gnashing fan combo will take over 6 seconds to being used, on that time you are unable to weave anything properly so you become vulnerable and your mitigations won't affect you on time or whatever, if you have to run out the boss mid combo the macro will be interrupted and other stuff, in resume you will have way less chance to adapt on combat.

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I also pop a defensive cooldown before using the macro if that helps(provided I have any off cooldowns given how hard enemy auto attacks hit you for) and I also don't use the /wait text command in the macro.

So I finally got DRK to level 80, and I still think it sucks...


-Living Shadow is basically showing you what your Blood gauge combos could have been, and because it's a pet it has the possibility of being a DPS loss because the boss goes untargetable, or trash dies too quickly, so bring back Dark Arts as a button you press to increase your potency by 200 and have it upgrade into Living Shadow which increases you potency by 400.



-Stalwart Soul is too ****ing bright, but I wish it was an oGCD DoT, and I would have rather have Dark Passenger at level 40 and it be the combo path for Unleash.


-Salted Earth needs to be replaced with target AoE that is part of the Unleash combo path, preferably the combo ender after Dark Passenger.


-The Blackest Night is either DPS neutral or a DPS loss for high cost, so remove the cost and the DPS neutral/loss effect, and Bring back Shadowskin, have it at level 4 and make it upgrade into The Blackest Night at level 70.


-Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow extending Darkside is fine, but because they both cost MP and DRK hate dying because of the huge penalty of death is even greater for them because they don't have the MP to get Darkside back up in time to save a wipe so they need to bring back Darkside as a button, and rework Edge/Flood of Darkness to just cost MP when you don't have blood gauge to spend and have them turn in Edge/Flood of Shadow when you have 50 and turn them into Blood gauge combo spenders like how the pet does it.


-Dark Dance could have been a better invuln for DRK instead of Living Dead... enough said on the invuln topic...


This my compromise, because of how bad DRK leveling is EVEN WITH THE TRUST SYSTEM, I refuse to get the level 80 artifact gear for DRK and I also refuse to do the level 80 DRK quest because of how bad DRK is in practice...

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

This my compromise, because of how bad DRK leveling is EVEN WITH THE TRUST SYSTEM, I refuse to get the level 80 artifact gear for DRK and I also refuse to do the level 80 DRK quest because of how bad DRK is in practice...

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you know im doing exactly the same, if Sidurgu see my character with current DRK the one that will get punched won't be a moogle but my viera.

edit: didn't consider the whole sentence necesary but i don't mind quote all.

I like some aspects of this but I think the implementation of living shadow and surging dark side would be considered too complicated based on the level of difficulty of the other tanks.

I think DRK just needs Delirium and Abyssal drain changed at minimum and living shadow needs another mechanic to make it more interactive if they really want to blow me away.

I'm particularly salty about Delirium as using abilities without cost is antithetical to the resource management tank.

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Originally Posted by shao32

you know im doing exactly the same, if Sidurgu see my character with current DRK the one that will get punched won't be a moogle but my viera.

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If you're going to quote me, at least quote the whole sentence. That's all I ask

I can see them adjusting potencies but not core concept or properties of skills. It seems like every skill a Tank has, the other tanks have a comparable skill. All tanks have a 30% cooldown, gap closer, ST/AoE gauge spender, skill that allows multiple gauge finishers, AoE DoT, self heal, short recast defensive, etc.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I can see them adjusting potencies but not core concept or properties of skills. It seems like every skill a Tank has, the other tanks have a comparable skill. All tanks have a 30% cooldown, gap closer, ST/AoE gauge spender, skill that allows multiple gauge finishers, AoE DoT, self heal, short recast defensive, etc.

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DRK animations are too long to even just enjoy looking because of things like enrage timers, which just make the job look clunky and makes it feel like most of DRKs abilities need to be GCD but have really high potency on said GCD to make up for the fact that they are on GCD.


And yes I am aware that people probably hate or even cringe at such a concept, but with long animations like the ones DRK has, it feels like it needs to happen. If something takes longer than 1 GCD to finish, than it needs to be on the GCD. If takes less than half of a GCD to finish then it needs to be oGCD.

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

So I finally got DRK to level 80, and I still think it sucks...

Living Shadow is basically showing you what your Blood gauge combos could have been, and because it's a pet it has the possibility of being a DPS loss because the boss goes untargetable, or trash dies too quickly, so bring back Dark Arts as a button you press to increase your potency by 200 and have it upgrade into Living Shadow which increases you potency by 400.

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So don't use living shadow if the boss is going to be untargetable. Bad play =/= bad ability.

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-Stalwart Soul is too ****ing bright, but I wish it was an oGCD DoT, and I would have rather have Dark Passenger at level 40 and it be the combo path for Unleash.

-Salted Earth needs to be replaced with target AoE that is part of the Unleash combo path, preferably the combo ender after Dark Passenger.

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So you want to remove Stalwart Soul (the combo finisher) and make it an oGCD Dot, and swap Salted Earth (oGCD Dot) to a combo finisher?

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-The Blackest Night is either DPS neutral or a DPS loss for high cost, so remove the cost and the DPS neutral/loss effect, and Bring back Shadowskin, have it at level 4 and make it upgrade into The Blackest Night at level 70.

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Blackest Night may be DPS neutral, but it's not just a DPS skill. It's mitigation. Thus your healer can do more damage instead of healing you. Which would be a DPS gain. It should never be a DPS loss. Again, Bad play =/= bad ability. TBN is one of the best abilites in the game for tanks.

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-Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow extending Darkside is fine, but because they both cost MP and DRK hate dying because of the huge penalty of death is even greater for them because they don't have the MP to get Darkside back up in time to save a wipe so they need to bring back Darkside as a button, and rework Edge/Flood of Darkness to just cost MP when you don't have blood gauge to spend and have them turn in Edge/Flood of Shadow when you have 50 and turn them into Blood gauge combo spenders like how the pet does it.

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Just wondering, why do you need darkside up to save a wipe?

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-Dark Dance could have been a better invuln for DRK instead of Living Dead... enough said on the invuln topic...

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Living dead is the worst of the 4 invulns, but it's still absolutely fine.

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This my compromise, because of how bad DRK leveling is EVEN WITH THE TRUST SYSTEM, I refuse to get the level 80 artifact gear for DRK and I also refuse to do the level 80 DRK quest because of how bad DRK is in practice...

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I found DRK levelling incredibly fun. It's a massive improvement on SB DRK, it feels like it flows so well, and got rid of the awful clunkyness that was dark arts spam that was not interesting or engaging in any way.

Carve and Spit could do with either restoring more MP, or having a 30s cooldown. Alternatively, make it so it gives dark arts instead of restoring MP.

I like DRK's new play style (at least after you have a bit of Sks on it), but hoboy does its damage suck. Definitely needs some potency buffs. Would also say it needs better MP regen.

Idk why people are complaining about tank damage when the difference between top tank dps and lowest tank dps is less than 300.

Example (E2N):
GNB: 7,459.58 (Top)
PLD: 7,442.58
WAR: 7,229.49
DRK: 7,193.09 (Bottom)

GNB - DRK = 7,459.58 - 7,193.09 = 266.49

Numbers might look deceiving at first glance, but in reality, the difference is not that big.
I won't be concerned with tank personal dps unless the difference is much bigger.

With that small difference, I'd say just play the tank you enjoy most.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

So don't use living shadow if the boss is going to be untargetable. Bad play =/= bad ability.

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You could remove the blood gauge cost Living Shadow, and I would still hate it just because it's pet mechanic and basically a worse Demi-Bahamut.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

So you want to remove Stalwart Soul (the combo finisher) and make it an oGCD Dot, and swap Salted Earth (oGCD Dot) to a combo finisher?

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I'm going to assume that you didn't get the full context about Stalwart Soul, I don't like how short it's animation is and I want Stalwart Soul have some kind of different effect if it's animation is going to be that short and just prefer it to be oGCD, and as for Salted Earth; I hate ground targeting abilities as the just break my immersion because I have to macro it.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Blackest Night may be DPS neutral, but it's not just a DPS skill. It's mitigation. Thus your healer can do more damage instead of healing you. Which would be a DPS gain. It should never be a DPS loss. Again, Bad play =/= bad ability. TBN is one of the best abilites in the game for tanks.

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If it was just mitigation and didn't cost resources for DPS, yes it is better than Heart of Stone, but because of The Blackest Night costing a resource that you could have used to save a group from wiping to enrage, it's not worth the 3k MP just leaving it to chance and it doesn't take priority over other shields.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Just wondering, why do you need darkside up to save a wipe?

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Play MNK and die with all of your Greased Lightningstacks and you will know why Darkside needs to be up to save the group from a wipe.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Living dead is the worst of the 4 invulns, but it's still absolutely fine.

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All I am hearing from this sentence is "jUsT uSe BeNeDiCtIoN" because with randoms it's going to get wasted because it was used too early or too late, better yet go on WHM, do just that and tell me that Lining Dead is fine after that.

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

I found DRK levelling incredibly fun. It's a massive improvement on SB DRK, it feels like it flows so well, and got rid of the awful clunkyness that was dark arts spam that was not interesting or engaging in any way.

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Waiting for discount Inner Release to come off of cooldown is boring, also I hate Inner Release as game mechanic and I just wish WAR was the only tank to have it...

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Originally Posted by TheRealQuah

Carve and Spit could do with either restoring more MP, or having a 30s cooldown. Alternatively, make it so it gives dark arts instead of restoring MP.

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Like I said before, the animation is too long too enjoy it proper before next GCD is up. if the animation lasts a full GCD before GCD even comes up it needs to be on the GCD, if the animation last less than half of a GCD then it needs to be oGCD.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I like DRK's new play style (at least after you have a bit of Sks on it), but hoboy does its damage suck. Definitely needs some potency buffs. Would also say it needs better MP regen.

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All of the skill speed, potency buffs, and MP regen in the world will not save DRK from being the most boring tank to play... because all you do is use your discount Infuriate to get discount Demi-Bahamut then use discount Inner Release for discount Fell Cleave spam...

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

All of the skill speed, potency buffs, and MP regen in the world will not save DRK from being the most boring tank to play... because all you do is use your discount Infuriate to get discount Demi-Bahamut then use discount Inner Release for discount Fell Cleave spam...

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Let's not pretend DRK is the only tank to have the "totally not_____ or discount_____" stuff.

I don't see how that's any different from doing two Rage of Halone combos, popping Fight or Flight into Circle of Scorn/Spirits Within, unlocking your Enchanted Dark Arts Riposte combo and then finishing up with Bloodspiller. Over and over again.

I get that you don't like the new DRK, but let's stop with the sour grapes. It's always the same three people complaining. Especially when you're playing GNB of all things.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Idk why people are complaining about tank damage when the difference between top tank dps and lowest tank dps is less than 300.

Example (E2N):
GNB: 7,459.58 (Top)
PLD: 7,442.58
WAR: 7,229.49
DRK: 7,193.09 (Bottom)

GNB - DRK = 7,459.58 - 7,193.09 = 266.49

Numbers might look deceiving at first glance, but in reality, the difference is not that big.
I won't be concerned with tank personal dps unless the difference is much bigger.

With that small difference, I'd say just play the tank you enjoy most.

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Definitely agree with all this.

Personally though think it should go GNB > DRK > PLD > WAR. Crit scaling will mean by the end of the expansion WAR will be top.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jetfire117

Let's not pretend DRK is the only tank to have the "totally not_____ or discount_____" stuff.

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I agree. I see so many people getting so bent out of shape and acting like it is a much bigger deal than it actually is. Pretty much all of the tanks have a lot of similar features and abilities. TBH, all the tank job play fine and some of them do need a few tweaks but it is a fact that they do play different from each other. It just may be that the current form of the job may no longer be the job for people whom are dissatisfied with it. Sometimes these things just happen and you either have to adapt to what has changed, just switch jobs, or switch games.

Like I don't really begrudge people whom offer small tweaks and suggestions, but people who put these crazy long posts with talking about complete reworks of the jobs are just silly and a waste of time IMHO. Likewise when I see posts of people whom are going, "I hate the way that this job is now and I'm quitting the job/game!" I'm left wanting to go, "Ok, o/ bye have a beautiful time!"

So far I have not been convinced as to why you would bring a DRK over PLD, WAR, or GNB in terms of either main tank or off tank, because DRK cannot carry the group from wiping to a boss because healer died, even though GNB also has this problem as well, you are better off taking any of the other tanks over DRK in dungeons.


The Blackest Night is a good shield yes, but as a DPS tool you are better not having a gimmick on it if it's just DPS neutral or loss.


And I see no reason to run double DRK because how bad Living Dead is because you waste resources just to get DRK up to full HP and you NEED TO GET DRK TO FULL HP OR THEY DIE WITH WALKING DEAD.


Dark Mind is worse than Rampart just because it only reduces magic damage taken since the number of tankbusters is half physical and half magical.


Darkside has the same problems that it had in Heavensward which I understand why people liked it but now it's way worse because you can't prep Darkside outside of combat and you might as well be taking MNK over DRK.


DRK is for those players who just hate people in general and do not want to take responsibility for any slip ups they did and just make other peoples lives just as miserable as they are.


And I hate to say it but if they do want to make DRK fun they need to retcon the DRK story quests.


But alternatively they could just not retcon the lore and make it fun, lore be damned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

So far I have not been convinced as to why you would bring a DRK over PLD, WAR, or GNB in terms of either main tank or off tank, because DRK cannot carry the group from wiping to a boss because healer died, even though GNB also has this problem as well, you are better off taking any of the other tanks over DRK in dungeons.


The Blackest Night is a good shield yes, but as a DPS tool you are better not having a gimmick on it if it's just DPS neutral or loss.


And I see no reason to run double DRK because how bad Living Dead is because you waste resources just to get DRK up to full HP and you NEED TO GET DRK TO FULL HP OR THEY DIE WITH WALKING DEAD.


Dark Mind is worse than Rampart just because it only reduces magic damage taken since the number of tankbusters is half physical and half magical.


Darkside has the same problems that it had in Heavensward which I understand why people liked it but now it's way worse because you can't prep Darkside outside of combat and you might as well be taking MNK over DRK.


DRK is for those players who just hate people in general and do not want to take responsibility for any slip ups they did and just make other peoples lives just as miserable as they are.


And I hate to say it but if they do want to make DRK fun they need to retcon the DRK story quests.


But alternatively they could just not retcon the lore and make it fun, lore be damned.

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I didn't know it was April 2020 already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jetfire117

I didn't know it was April 2020 already.

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The fools certainly be out too. XD

I feel like if DRK has less utility, less defensive cooldowns and no way to heal itself reliably then it should be the black mage of tanks. Its dps should be boosted to make it quite a bit above the other tanks. When you see PLD soloing all the Heavensward EX primals you know things are not balanced because there's no way in hell a DRK could do that; yet their dps is roughly the same. How is that fair in the slightest?