Why Does A Fierce Race Of Female Warriors...

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

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I'm not saying that you shouldn't voice your opinions, or saying they're not allowed to critisize, you absolutly should, but when you start refering something released as a "problem" when it isn't just because you personally find it distasteful that's where the issue lies. You start to encroach on the devs creative freedom. What I'm trying to do is point out that certain thought processes are harmful to the outcome of the content released. I've never said "you can't dislike that" only that you can't say it's a problem when it's not just because you dislike it.

My opinion isn't more important than others, but their opinions aren't more important than the dev's wishes for their game. Some of the male Viera threads are a good example of people trying to use their opinions to essentially force the devs to release male Vieras by calling them "regressive", "sexist" and "homophobic" and saying that not having the males present is a problem. You get enough of those and the devs will think that's how the majority feels and even if their end decision was to not implement the male they'll feel like they had to because of the pressure. Your Unnamed Industry has fallen into this trap where they think the loud minority speaks for everyone and now they're paying the consequences. I don't want the same thing to start happening here.

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Originally Posted by Joven

I'm not saying that you shouldn't voice your opinions, or saying they're not allowed to critisize, you absolutly should, but when you start refering something released as a "problem" when it isn't just because you personally find it distasteful that's where the issue lies.

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Idk man, I don't think it's right to do the same language policing thing where certain words become off-limits due to fear. I think you're right to say it's misleading to call something a "problem" as if it's objective fact. It's not, it's the OP's opinion and that difference is important. But if they want to use it they've got that right, just like you've got the right to point it out and disagree.

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Originally Posted by Joven

My opinion isn't more important than others, but their opinions aren't more important than the dev's wishes for their game.

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I think that's a bit debatable. This is a business and a franchise. It's not one person's passion project existing in the vacuum of their head. A lot of the problems I described in my unnamed industry are because there is zero sense of professional responsibility, craftsmanship, or respect for most customers. People are literally destroying entire brands for selfish reasons. The attitude there is that storytelling (visually, verbally, etc.) is worth as much as the creator's feelings, that the creator's feelings and self-expression are the ultimate good, and no one has a right to criticize. That entitlement is a massive problem, just as fan entitlement and harassment is a massive problem. It's important to recognize that both positions (critic and creator) have some merit, but taken to extremes can cause huge issues.

The dev's wishes for the game are important. If the dev's wishes for the game come at the expense of the customers more than they bring enjoyment, the inevitable consequences of that are more people leaving than entering the playerbase. It's a balancing act, you know?

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Originally Posted by Joven

Some of the male Viera threads are a good example of people trying to use their opinions to essentially force the devs to release male Vieras by calling them "regressive", "sexist" and "homophobic" and saying that not having the males present is a problem. You get enough of those and the devs will think that's how the majority feels and even if their end decision was to not impliment the male they'll feel like they had to because of the pressure.

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I agree that behavior is wrong. If this was a Western property, accusations like that could be career-ending. Fortunately, people in this fandom seem to still have a degree of skepticism instead of taking it as a given that accusation = guilt. Further, Japan has some protection by virtue of not depending on Western values/opinions. Since people casually making accusations of bigotry don't have power with respect to FFXIV, the important thing from there is that the devs have the mental and creative fortitude to simply reject those accusations as ridiculous/unfounded and keep trucking. It also seems to be pretty commonly understood that forums ≠ the entire player base, and the international player base differs a great deal from the American or just overall English-speaking player base.

This is that confidence thing I mentioned. Part of the responsibility involved in being a good creator comes from being able to understand there will always be critics, even those who are hateful and want to destroy what you've made. Mature creators need to be able to take a deep breath and decide independently what criticism has merit, what doesn't, and keep going according to what seems appropriate. Not just trying to appease the loudest voices.

No fan has the right to tell SE how to evaluate criticism. They have to use their own good judgment. Assume they see the arguments and counter-arguments, then simply make a good case.

Like I said before, I have no problem with the female Viera's default clothing. It's even kind of reassuring to me because that sort of thing is so demonized elsewhere. I don't necessarily think OP's criticism is fair under the circumstances, so I raised that point. I'd also like male Viera included, but I don't think it's right for people to launch accusations at devs for not getting what they want when they want it. I happen to agree with you that using fear tactics and censorship is a major problem, and it's the LAST thing I want in FFXIV. That said I don't think OP was terrible, out of line, or threatening in expressing their opinion on the subject.

Bring on the sexy. The more the better. My only problem with viera so far is their facial features appear too Paris Hiltony for me.

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Originally Posted by Acesfool

Bring on the sexy. The more the better. My only problem with viera so far is their facial features appear too Paris Hiltony for me.

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The thing that has me the most excited to play a Viera is trying to get that 'rabbit like nose' Fran has. So far I've seen it in most of the concept art so I'm still assuming it will be on the character choices. If it is, My Elezen is extremely likely to find a Moogle has a fantasia potion for her.

My second 'long bet' is to hope the glamour choices look better.

What will Hempen Camise look like? - that alone can make or break a character choice.
What will 'Brand New Boots' and 'Brand New Gloves' look like. Currently this is a trash item unless you have an Aura female, and then it's the 'Hempen Camise' of shoes... :)
- and so on.

Also desperately hoping they have a more silly 'panic' emote like a Miqote or Aura and not the 'I'm too dignified for that emote' version the Elezen have. Because I begin every dungeon on my cat and lizard characters with a healthy panic emote for the laughs. :)

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

but if its a female? ooooo hell no! its hypersexual and everybody goes bat-crap crazy, Like the OP who outright calls viera strippers.

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Yeah it says a lot more about the OP than anything else that that phrasing was used... That bit of misogyny angered me...

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

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I agree that it is a fine line between calling out someone for using terms that have the potential to give the wrong impression about something and trying to deny them the option to disagree about that something. I struggle to express myself in a way that doesn't come off as trying to tell others what they should/n't be doing and sometimes I succeed and others, like this thread, not so much. That's kind of one of the reasons I participate in discussions like this, to try and better my ability to debate and express my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

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Just because this is a business doesn't mean the devs can't have a passion for the world they've created. It's not just one person's passion, it's a whole team's passion and it's shown in the little details of the environments, the character animations and emotes, the music, etc and it's proven that they have a passion and respect for the fans by the content released. Most of which comes from fan requests. I know that this is a business and that money is a motivating factor, but I honestly think that this game is almost wholly a passion project because if it was purely profit driven they would have scrapped the whole concept after the failure of 1.0 for being unprofitable.

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

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I agree that it is a balancing act of giving fans what they want and holding to your vision, but sometimes you just have to say "we feel like that addition doesn't work for what we're intending". I'll use the Viera/Hrothgar situation as an example again since it's the most recent controversy: I feel that if the devs had an in-world related reason as to why those races only have one gender and they felt that fan requests for the other genders went against that reason and would disrupt future plans then they should be able to reject the request without facing severe backlash. That's where we as fans need to understand that we shouldn't expect to get everything we want even though we pay a subscription. We're paying to participate in the story the developers are telling, not paying to control it.

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

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Japan and SE aren't going to be shielded from Western values/opinions forever since they participate in a global market and marketing shapes cultures.

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

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I don't think the OP was any of those things either but their line of "I thought you were better than that SE" is in the same vein of "I think this is a problem and you should change it". It's not threatening or out of line, but it still insinuates they wish to change something due to personal taste.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Why does every female have to be dressed in a Burka to satisfy some people?

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Totally a strawman argument, Makeda. If you noticed, I did not complain about the starting outfits of other races. To me, they are fine.

What I'm complaining about is that the gear is barely there. The viera are practically nude. They seem more like the outfits you'd see adult entertainers wear in a strip club.

((The viera's buttcheeks are already a meme. Look it up.))

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Why does every female have to be dressed in a Burka to satisfy some people?

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Totally a strawman argument, Makeda. If you noticed, I did not complain about the starting outfits of other races. To me, they are fine. I appreciate people like their sexy characters.

What I'm complaining about is the viera are practically nude. They are wearing lingerie and I feel that goes too far.

((The viera's buttcheeks are already a meme. Look it up.))

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Is this a joke thread?


"I ordered a hamburger!

-Gets Hamburger

Why is there burger in my humburger!? Come on SE .."

This is how this train of thought sounds.
The viera look exactly like how they have always looked in their starter gear. You can make your character wear w/e you want so REALLY the only thing to look at are emotes and poses as these define the persona of that race and you can't control that ... and they don't have stripper or w/e emotes sooooo yeah, make em look like you're dream warrior.
(10)

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Another strawman argument.

But, as I wrote earlier, now that I know that the gear is a throwback to FFXII, I'm not as bothered. I'm just stating it bothered me when I first saw it and it doesn't matter if I'm behind the times. It's the first time I saw the starting gear.

I didn't sign up to FFXIV to get characters dressed like something out of Forsaken World or Tera.

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Yeah it says a lot more about the OP than anything else that that phrasing was used... That bit of misogyny angered me...

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I'm not misogynistic in the least. Perhaps i should have used the term, Victoria's Secret models.

And I my comment was on the outfit, not the Viera. I felt they should be treated with more respect than they appeared to be by Square Enix. Hence my remark that I thought S.E. was better than that.

If you think that line of thought is misogynistic then there is nothing more than I can say because I believe from the deepest place in my heart you are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

If you noticed, I did not complain about the starting outfits of other races. To me, they are fine.

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If all of the other female race's starter gear is fine, what's wrong with having one race with starter gear like this? I personally like their racial gear. It's just like Fran's.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

...look like strippers?

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To distract the enemies and be able to slide a dagger between their dibs while practically hugging them.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Totally a strawman argument, Makeda. If you noticed, I did not complain about the starting outfits of other races. To me, they are fine.

What I'm complaining about is that the gear is barely there. The viera are practically nude. They seem more like the outfits you'd see adult entertainers wear in a strip club.

((The viera's buttcheeks are already a meme. Look it up.))

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You take issue with viera starter but not miqo'te?
Miqo'te has a mini skirt where you can clearly see their panties without even trying and tiny tube top where their breast bounce in it like its DoA.

well i will say we should be grateful fran's outfit is not a mogstation item since it will be a popular demand to have if it wasn't a racial gear.

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Originally Posted by Senn

If all of the other female race's starter gear is fine, what's wrong with having one race with starter gear like this? I personally like their racial gear. It's just like Fran's.

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I think it's more that the Viera starter gear looks like something you'd expect from the hempen sets.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I think it's more that the Viera starter gear looks like something you'd expect from the hempen sets.

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Oh. I wouldn't really mind it if they changed it to a hempen set, either. Whether it's starter gear or hempen set, the overall design doesn't bother me. Can always wear different gear anyway.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

The thing that has me the most excited to play a Viera is trying to get that 'rabbit like nose' Fran has. So far I've seen it in most of the concept art so I'm still assuming it will be on the character choices. If it is, My Elezen is extremely likely to find a Moogle has a fantasia potion for her.

My second 'long bet' is to hope the glamour choices look better.

What will Hempen Camise look like? - that alone can make or break a character choice.
What will 'Brand New Boots' and 'Brand New Gloves' look like. Currently this is a trash item unless you have an Aura female, and then it's the 'Hempen Camise' of shoes... :)
- and so on.

Also desperately hoping they have a more silly 'panic' emote like a Miqote or Aura and not the 'I'm too dignified for that emote' version the Elezen have. Because I begin every dungeon on my cat and lizard characters with a healthy panic emote for the laughs. :)

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I plan to fantasia to a female character after the expac comes out. I'm heavily leaning toward aura for now but will give viera a chance before making a final decision.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I think it's more that the Viera starter gear looks like something you'd expect from the hempen sets.

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I think it's more they wanted to give a fran set in a way that doesn't involve viera getting an extra set over other races or a mogstation exclusive.


With the way small groups of people try to hold the game hostage over every little thing may likely just push the game developers to just start ignoring user feedback. It's extremely hostile and rude and should evoke a negative response despite how often they try to appease fan demands to disasterous results

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Totally a strawman argument, Makeda.

What I'm complaining about is that the gear is barely there. The viera are practically nude. They seem more like the outfits you'd see adult entertainers wear in a strip club.

((The viera's buttcheeks are already a meme. Look it up.))

Totally a strawman argument, Makeda. If you noticed, I did not complain about the starting outfits of other races. To me, they are fine. I appreciate people like their sexy characters.

What I'm complaining about is the viera are practically nude. They are wearing lingerie and I feel that goes too far.

((The viera's buttcheeks are already a meme. Look it up.))

I didn't sign up to FFXIV to get characters dressed like something out of Forsaken World or Tera.

I'm not misogynistic in the least. Perhaps i should have used the term, Victoria's Secret models.

If you think that line of thought is misogynistic then there is nothing more than I can say because I believe from the deepest place in my heart you are wrong.

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There are two ways this whole thing could have been approached.

Is the issue with the representation of female characters, or more specifically Viera starting outfits, about objectification or S-shaming (wherein S refers to a 4-letter term).

With the term 'strippers' and many of the other terms such as those above... you went with 'S-shaming' - which is a classic misogynistic approach.

There is an argument to be made about objectification.

But it would be made in a very different manner. And even if one made it I would come back with comparing representation in FFXIV against those in other related media and find that FFXIV is a lot better on this score - when it does present an outfit that is very sensuous, it often looks a lot less exaggerated, and the characters themselves are also some of the least exaggerated in any related media.

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Originally Posted by Joven

I struggle to express myself in a way that doesn't come off as trying to tell others what they should/n't be doing and sometimes I succeed and others, like this thread, not so much. That's kind of one of the reasons I participate in discussions like this, to try and better my ability to debate and express my thoughts.

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No worries! :) Honestly if you find a spot online where you can practice this kind of discussion calmly with folks it's worth doing! Can't do it everywhere but since FFXIV is good for this kind of thing better to run with it. For what it's worth, I figured it would be worth chatting with you because I totally get where you're coming from and you seem well-intended with this stuff. Since I'm coming from a spot where censorship is a major issue I figure I might be able to offer some perspective and maybe help reassure you on a few points. The big thing with FFXIV I think is that they need to be aware there is some nonsense going on in business/consumer relationships in the West rn (especially on creative properties) and not fall into the same trap. That's part of why I talk about the subject some in forums.

For what it's worth though, I'm reasonably sure that Japanese media is becoming increasingly aware of this issue.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Just because this is a business doesn't mean the devs can't have a passion for the world they've created.

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Of course! I'm a creator too with all of this, the passion for the work and having a clear vision is crucial. I figure having a measure of passion should be a given. It's just also important to remember that you're engaging with other people, and sometimes to be the best storyteller you have to be willing to "cut up your baby" so to speak haha. There's a certain measure of fun that comes from limits and taking on a challenge as well as you can. It's all still a job with responsibilities and remembering the consumer base, but if you have the temperament for it it's a fun job.

I do think it would be unfair to say continued commitment to FFXIV after 1.0 was only motivated by passion though. I suspect a big part of it was they had an idea of how to fix things and they had already committed a lot of resources. Writing it off as a total loss at that point would have been a bigger loss because as an MMO it's not like you can continue collecting sales to a lesser degree years after the fact. If there's no maintenance of the community you can't really play. I'm sure passion played a part, but I think practicality tied in too.

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Originally Posted by Joven

I'll use the Viera/Hrothgar situation as an example again since it's the most recent controversy: I feel that if the devs had an in-world related reason as to why those races only have one gender and they felt that fan requests for the other genders went against that reason and would disrupt future plans then they should be able to reject the request without facing severe backlash.

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At this point I take that as giving themselves an out if there wasn't sufficient demand for the other genders to justify the effort tbh. Kind of testing the waters. Frankly, it's a little bit of a gamble because people rarely (if ever) do legitimately monstrous looking female characters and fanservice-y male characters to the degree that's being proposed. Sometimes it is ABSOLUTELY worth taking those gambles, it opens the door to new possibility and innovation and can really invigorate the customer base. But especially when a lot of time, money, and effort is attached that can also be a risk if it fails.

I do think it would be a shame for people to declare ruined forever and leave over this. However, I also think it would be a huge shame for SE to miss the opportunity both creatively and as a business. When there is huge audience demand like this (not talking loud non-fans just looking for power, I mean actual fans who spend money and engage with the story) it's actually a good opportunity signal and shows people are invested. There's also precedent for doing a genderlock then unlocking later, and for there being more males and females for various races that are then shown in practice. I don't wish anything bad whatsoever on the devs if they opt out of the option, but I don't think they should do that and I don't think it needs to cause any problems if they decide to go with it at their own pace.

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Originally Posted by Joven

That's where we as fans need to understand that we shouldn't expect to get everything we want even though we pay a subscription. We're paying to participate in the story the developers are telling, not paying to control it.

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Idk, I think this is a complicated issue. I think it's true in the sense that the game is rated T and as an MMO we are interacting with other players who for example signed on for a T-rated game. If players are using language and/or modding to the point that it goes into hard R or X territory, I think SE absolutely has the right to enforce that. But I think to completely forget and ignore consumer demand is a huge mistake and can seriously lead to the death of a franchise. SE is pretty damn good to its fans, and I think their success reflects that. I don't think they should stop that.

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Originally Posted by Joven

Japan and SE aren't going to be shielded from Western values/opinions forever since they participate in a global market and marketing shapes cultures.

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No offense intended truly, but I laughed pretty hard at this. Western media currently is in the toilet in pretty much every way it possibly could be, whereas Asian media has been finding ungodly success by comparison. Additionally, they can absolutely leave off the West if they wanted or had to. It would be a shame, but they 100% would survive. Their domestic success is absolutely insane. They literally do not need us. On top of this, because of Western media being in the toilet more and more people have been turning to Asian media instead across a number of entertainment mediums. There are literally people in the West rn trying to figure out how Asia is doing this and how they can replicate it because of the difference in success.

Asian stories might not get shown in mainstream Western media as much because frankly there are issues with domestic monopolies and discrimination going on, but even with Hollywood insanity we're getting more and more Western remakes of films and mangas that Asia did better. There's a reason for that. The West has some serious catching up to do rn.

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Originally Posted by Joven

I don't think the OP was any of those things either but their line of "I thought you were better than that SE" is in the same vein of "I think this is a problem and you should change it". It's not threatening or out of line, but it still insinuates they wish to change something due to personal taste.

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Idk I just took that as OP being frustrated and disappointed. In general when people are frustrated and disappointed they'd do things differently if they had the chance. It's okay.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Why does every female have to be dressed in a Burka to satisfy some people?

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Yeah I dont get it. Nothing wrong with showing off what your momma gave ya.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

What I'm complaining about is that the gear is barely there.

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That's how they always looked.

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The viera are practically nude.

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That's how they always dressed.

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They seem more like the outfits you'd see adult entertainers wear in a strip club.

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That's how they always dressed and looked soooo they should be changed because of your opinion of it?

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Personally, I'm only disappointed their starting gear are literally Fran's clothes and not what the other viera npcs wear in XII, lazy gear for a lazy race.

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Fair enough but have you ever seen anyone still go around in their starting gear? How important is it really?

Not to mention all the other races can be semi-nude too. In that sense Viera is no different really. If it's bothersome you can dress them back up literally the instant after you fantasia'd.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

That's how they always looked.

That's how they always dressed.

That's how they always dressed and looked soooo they should be changed because of your opinion of it?

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I mean, that's if you forget that FFTA (the very first game they appear in) is a thing.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I mean, that's if you forget that FFTA (the very first game they appear in) is a thing.

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Viera fencer:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...era-fencer.jpg

Viera red mage:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...ra-redmage.jpg

Elementalist and Archer are both skimpy, which in total is half their available jobs in FFTA.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I mean, that's if you forget that FFTA (the very first game they appear in) is a thing.

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The concept art of a non-job default viera in FFTA wears a tiny bikini top attached to a strip of cloth. The same outfit turned into tiny bits of metal defying the laws of physics with a strip of cloth in FFXII. What we've got could have been worse.

FFTA:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20061218231306

FFXII:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100416201314

[Rings bell]
SHAME

Let's not ever consider isolated and territorial peoples who regularly wear nothing or loincloths for identity. If their weaving and leather working bring them to something sensual to the outsiders eye, that's their fantasy culture. No one's wearing chainmail micro-bikinis or intentional fetish gear like TERA. I think their race clothing is alluring and graceful.

Oh sorry I meant-

[Rings bell]
SHAME

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Originally Posted by Gula

[Rings bell]
SHAME

Let's not ever consider isolated and territorial peoples who regularly wear nothing or loincloths for identity. If their weaving and leather working bring them to something sensual to the outsiders eye, that's their fantasy culture. No one's wearing chainmail micro-bikinis or intentional fetish gear like TERA. I think their race clothing is alluring and graceful.

Oh sorry I meant-

[Rings bell]
SHAME

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Hey, I like the Viera and I like their outfits but lets not pretend they aren't designed to look sexy. There's nothing wrong with that either IMO, but equating their skimpy gear to that of an isolated RL tribe - that's a bit of a stretch to me.

With that said, my fantasias are ready and I shall be hooching it up - at least for awhile ;)

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

I do think it would be unfair to say continued commitment to FFXIV after 1.0 was only motivated by passion though. I suspect a big part of it was they had an idea of how to fix things and they had already committed a lot of resources.

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From what I've been lead to believe through my time reading these forums is that the money XIV is generating gets leeched off for other projects, which is why they're constantly low on resources. That's why I said this seems to be almost wholly a passion project, because why would you continue to try and deliver high quality content when you're not getting the funding and resources your content is generating? I get that the Japanese have pride in their work and all, but everyone has a limit on what they're willing to do when expectations over takes compensation.

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

If players are using language and/or modding to the point that it goes into hard R or X territory, I think SE absolutely has the right to enforce that. But I think to completely forget and ignore consumer demand is a huge mistake and can seriously lead to the death of a franchise. SE is pretty damn good to its fans, and I think their success reflects that. I don't think they should stop that.

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I'm not saying they should ignore consumer demand, just that they should be allowed some wiggle room to be able to say "no" when a demand is either unreasonable/not possible or doesn't fit with what they have in mind going forward and that we as fans need to understand that they have limitations to what they can do from a technical standpoint and from a story/world building stand point. They've made so many concession about adding things that fans think if they make enough noise the devs will cave and that's not a good dynamic to have.

As for modding: that's a completely different area and SE should with all certainty put their foot down on that because the modders are breaking the ToS even if the mods they're adding is something minor.\

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

Additionally, they can absolutely leave off the West if they wanted or had to. It would be a shame, but they 100% would survive. Their domestic success is absolutely insane. They literally do not need us. On top of this, because of Western media being in the toilet more and more people have been turning to Asian media instead across a number of entertainment mediums.

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The reason I said that is because if you pay attention to some of the news around anime you can see some minor signs of western values affecting the genre. One example is the creator of Sword Art Online Reki Kawahara. He did an interview where he talks about how he needs to keep "political correctness" in mind in the future. Here's a video talking about the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu2TGF60yGM&t=412s. It may be a minor thing, but that's how it always starts, you ignore it because it seems insignificant until you turn around and it's grown to consume everything, just like it has in the West.

If they dress that way, it's because you want them to dress that way.

If skin offends you, set your glamor as your favorite armor or conservative outfit.

I actually like the gear, there's some interesting patterns and textures to it. As to the practicality of it, well lets assume for the sake of realism that it is perhaps ceremonial? I mean, I play Miqo'te and yes we are way over sexualized if not in lore but in the games player culture. Yes, SE did provide the tools (gear) but that's available to all races and there's skimpy stuffs fer both represented genders as noted by others. I play both sides of that coin, meaning I dress for the occasion, we have that nice Glam thingie xD. Typically in serious, proper duties I glam practical or realistic gearsets so PUGs etc will take me seriously more or less. When playin with friends, or for certain weekly events I may go with a theme, or joke glam. With certain ppl who are appreciative (Elv-wife) I may go all sexy like, just fer kicks, mine and theirs. We have one person who likes to laugh at that kind of silliness so I hit the two piece up in every instance where it makes the least sense in terms of realism, live the stereotype he shouts! I've never had any issues offending others with how I dress but I do play with a rather tight knit group and for the most part we are a pretty gender fluid group and the jokes, they do fly. Anyways, wear what floats yer boat, anyone who would say something will be offended no matter what /shrug

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Originally Posted by van_arn

If they dress that way, it's because you want them to dress that way.

If skin offends you, set your glamor as your favorite armor or conservative outfit.

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Me with the 3 retainers on display in various bikinis and maid accessories.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

...look like strippers? Come on, S.E.

I was looking forward to playing a Viera for something different but that starting outfit is too much for me to overlook. They look like they are straight out of Forsaken World.

I thought you were better than that, Square Enix. Count me as disappointed.

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you are being completely RIDICULOUS. They do NOT look like strippers. They are dancers and need less clothing to move around more freely. Also, they are more natural and less sensitive about showing more skins than hyurs (humans) dont be a perv. Warriors races dont all need stupid ugly heavy armor. Dont be insensitive. Are you just crying out for attention?

You can change it you know, only pervy guys will keep that starter gear. What about highlander hempen set then? Just keep first person camera so you don't have to see higher :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leloa

You can change it you know, only pervy guys will keep that starter gear. What about highlander hempen set then? Just keep first person camera so you don't have to see higher :)

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That's... is it sexist if you go after someone's sexual orientation? :thinking:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

...look like strippers? Come on, S.E.

I was looking forward to playing a Viera for something different but that starting outfit is too much for me to overlook. They look like they are straight out of Forsaken World.

I thought you were better than that, Square Enix. Count me as disappointed.

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Why strippers? I mean, are the Viera naked because strippers are. No? Then they don't look like strippers.

Typical stereotyping....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gula

That's... is it sexist if you go after someone's sexual orientation? :thinking:

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It's sexist for thinking all of one sex feels, thinks or acts a certain way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joven

It's sexist for thinking all of one sex feels, thinks or acts a certain way.

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What I mean to say is girls can like seeing girls. And non pervy guys could also keep them in default to nothing.

To say only pervy guys would do such a thing is literally wrong. I just can't put my finger on a term that eclipses how wrong they are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

That's how they always looked.

That's how they always dressed.

That's how they always dressed and looked soooo they should be changed because of your opinion of it?

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*nods*

I know that now. I was unaware of their prior presentation when I made my original post. This MMO and the original Final Fantasy are my only exposure to the franchise.

So that said, no. I don't believe the gear should be changed. It's an homage to the original viera gear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guardin

you are being completely RIDICULOUS. They do NOT look like strippers. They are dancers and need less clothing to move around more freely. Also, they are more natural and less sensitive about showing more skins than hyurs (humans) dont be a perv. Warriors races dont all need stupid ugly heavy armor. Dont be insensitive. Are you just crying out for attention?

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Nope, I'm not crying out for attention. I just didn't like what I saw and let SE know my opinion.

I'm not seeing how having an issue with a set of starter gear, which I feel objectifies women, makes me a pervert or insensitive.

Quote:

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Why strippers? I mean, are the Viera naked because strippers are. No? Then they don't look like strippers.

Typical stereotyping....

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The starter gear reminded me of what some of my friends would wear when they were working. Make of that what you will.

And, I am talking about the starter gear. I'm not calling Viera a race of strippers.

Well sex sells

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gula

What I mean to say is girls can like seeing girls. And non pervy guys could also keep them in default to nothing.

To say only pervy guys would do such a thing is literally wrong. I just can't put my finger on a term that eclipses how wrong they are.

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Well "sexist" is usually the go-to term people use when something like that comes up. I can't think of a stronger word either. I mean calling someone sexist is already pretty bad in and of itself so.....

Of course there's always "homophobic" since those two words are typically thrown around together.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leloa

You can change it you know, only pervy guys will keep that starter gear. What about highlander hempen set then? Just keep first person camera so you don't have to see higher :)

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I'm a straight female and I'm totally gonna sport that starter gear now and then. The husband may question why I'm running around half naked, but that's not my problem. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joven

I mean calling someone sexist is already pretty bad in and of itself so.

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It's a term invented for a reason. If someone fits into the definition, then it should be used. No word or phrase of ill intent is good in nature unless it's just one of those words that got twisted in translation.

Someone could say, "I hate X." To not call someone out on it and to let them continue is even worse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by programcanaan

Well sex sells

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https://media.giphy.com/media/KOhsqWbFQgNsk/giphy.gif

Hahaha omg...