Gunblade job must be a DPS.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

There is this vague expectation because it was said in fanfest about "multiple" jobs come ShB. If there would be only two, why they would go for the word multiple, since it represents usually more?
So, if we really gonna get 3 jobs, I suppose they'll follow the HW pattern with a healer, a tank and a dps, possibly a supportive type of dps to join MCH and BRD on that niche?

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Because it gets people's hopes up.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

There is this vague expectation because it was said in fanfest about "multiple" jobs come ShB. If there would be only two, why they would go for the word multiple, since it represents usually more?
So, if we really gonna get 3 jobs, I suppose they'll follow the HW pattern with a healer, a tank and a dps, possibly a supportive type of dps to join MCH and BRD on that niche?

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well "multiple" can be more than one.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

There is this vague expectation because it was said in fanfest about "multiple" jobs come ShB. If there would be only two, why they would go for the word multiple, since it represents usually more?
So, if we really gonna get 3 jobs, I suppose they'll follow the HW pattern with a healer, a tank and a dps, possibly a supportive type of dps to join MCH and BRD on that niche?

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Gee, I wonder why.

https://i.imgur.com/Jo8lgr2.png

Maybe it's because they pulled the exact same thing during Stormblood fanfest?

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

Gee, I wonder why.

https://i.imgur.com/Jo8lgr2.png

Maybe it's because they pulled the exact same thing during Stormblood fanfest?

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Multiple is more than one, not more than two.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/multiple

"consisting of, including, or involving more than one"

Hence why the opposite of it is only One or adjectives regarding one entity, not One and Two.

So 2 new jobs fits into multiple.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Multiple is more than one, not more than two.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/multiple

"consisting of, including, or involving more than one"

Hence why the opposite of it is only One or adjectives regarding one entity, not One and Two.

So 2 new jobs fits into multiple.

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Your point? Nowhere I my post did I say they were lying or going back against their words.

This kind of stuff is basic marketing practice used pretty much everywhere. I'm just pointing this out to the one person who was wondering why people are expecting only 2 new jobs and not more.

Not again. You take de Samurai, which should be Tank, now you want too the Gunblade. I don't want all the cool jobs to be DPS.

What you put as tank now? A guy with a hammer, probably the most ugly of all weapons? No, please, this time, let us tanks have a cool job. There is none since Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Not again. You take de Samurai, which should be Tank, now you want too the Gunblade. I don't want all the cool jobs to be DPS.

What you put as tank now? A guy with a hammer, probably the most ugly of all weapons? No, please, this time, let us tanks have a cool job. There is none since Heavensward.

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"I don't want all the cool jobs to be <role>."

You know, that's the same thing DPS said when DRK became a tank; it's the same thing DPS said when there were hot debates about whether SAM would be tank or not. It's definitely an interesting perspective, but it's funny you say a hammer is an "ugly weapon."

If you dislike said hammer tank, keep playing DRK--I'd say a greatsword is probably one of the most aesthetically pleasing weapons to have ever been imagined by humanity. Honestly, I'd trade you SAM for DRK. Otherwise, as has been brought up, currently our tanks are:

Sword
Greatsword
Axe

Someone already brought up how all three are slashing-based attackers. This was rebutted by saying "Well it's just a number at the end of the day!" but there's definitely something to be said about making almost every tank a sword-user. You can fulfill a cool sword-using class fantasy using PLD or DRK already--what about people who want to tank but not use a sword? Surely their opinion is just as valid as yours.

"But now DPS have two sword users too! RDM and SAM!"

Fair enough. My only point here is, if I want to be a non-sword using DPS, I have 7 choices. If I want to be a non-sword using tank, I have WAR.

Ultimately, what am I saying here?

Not much, I guess I'm just kind of rambling about how an argument against DRK being tank, and against SAM being tank, is now being used against SLD being a DPS. It makes me chuckle.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

You know, that's the same thing DPS said when DRK became a tank; it's the same thing DPS said when there were hot debates about whether SAM would be tank or not.

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Tanks have one "cool" job concept, Dark Knight. Paladin is the typical "knight with magic" and Warrior is...you know, the most basic thing in existence that fights alongside "fighter". Healers have none in my opinion, but you could say that astrologian, a class that looks into the future and twists it to their will, could be considered "cool" concept.

DPS?! Summoner, Samurai, Red Mage, Ninja, Dragoon and Bard. All these classes are, in general, very popular in Final Fantasy and other fantasy titles. That's two-third of the total DPS classes, in comparison to one-third of tanks and and zero/third for healers, and six times in sheer amount.

Do you really think it's reasonable to try and turn the argument about "all the cool jobs for <role>" being used against tanks or healers?!

I do agree about the little choice of weapon, but "gunblade" is actually slashing/piercing, which is already a step forward. And yes, sorry...but hammers are generally not very popular. People are put off by their slow speed and typically absurd sizes in games and there is no really interesting class concept to use for a hammer. There never was any kind of "job" tied to the hammer. In real combat they were used as support weapons by knights or to raise fortifications. In fantasy, hammers are tied to dwarfs...which Final Fantasy XIV does not have.
Now, that being said all these "cool" classes begun somewhere and it is possible to make an interesting concept behind it, I'm sure. But pardon me, I won't really put my faith in the creativity of Final Fantasy XIV team to achieve that, especially since Nero uses a gunhammer which is as ridiculously oversized as you'd expect in a fantasy.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Tanks have one "cool" job concept, Dark Knight. Paladin is the typical "knight with magic" and Warrior is...you know, the most basic thing in existence that fights alongside "fighter". Healers have none in my opinion, but you could say that astrologian, a class that looks into the future and twists it to their will, could be considered "cool" concept.

DPS?! Summoner, Samurai, Red Mage, Ninja, Dragoon and Bard. All these classes are, in general, very popular in Final Fantasy and other fantasy titles. That's two-third of the total DPS classes, in comparison to one-third of tanks and and zero/third for healers, and six times in sheer amount.

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Tanks have a berserking warrior whose very essence screams "Come at me, I'll swim in both of our blood!" in Warrior; it has a holy guardian spellsword of Paladin, and a knight who channels their inner dark to bring justice. All three of those, to a lot of people, are cool. Just because you say DRK is their only cool job doesn't mean it is; it just mean you personally don't find them interesting.

Vice versa with the DPS; Bard is a painfully boring class fantasy. What is RDM but a combat focused spellblade? If PLD is boring, so is RDM. Ninja is just a thief with all the thief aspects taken out and forced into a Naruto archetype--fun. Samurai is meiji-era Rurouni Kenshin stuff, feudal era was way better. Summoner? Oh, you mean ruin mage.

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Do you really think it's reasonable to try and turn the argument about "all the cool jobs for <role>" being used against tanks or healers?!

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Did you even read my post? Lol

The argument was originally "I don't want Tanks to have all the cool stuff" when DRK was announced as a tank, and it resurfaced again when people were debating for SAM to be a tank. If SAM was also a tank you can bet we'd probably still have a hot debate about why SLD should be a tank.

The point of my post, appended at the end, was that it's interesting how from different perspectives, the same argument can be used for the opposite intent.

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I do agree about the little choice of weapon, but "gunblade" is actually slashing/piercing, which is already a step forward. And yes, sorry...but hammers are generally not very popular. People are put off by their slow speed and typically absurd sizes in games and there is no really interesting class concept to use for a hammer. There never was any kind of "job" tied to the hammer. In real combat they were used as support weapons by knights or to raise fortifications. In fantasy, hammers are tied to dwarfs...which Final Fantasy XIV does not have.
Now, that being said all these "cool" classes begun somewhere and it is possible to make an interesting concept behind it, I'm sure. But pardon me, I won't really put my faith in the creativity of Final Fantasy XIV team to achieve that, especially since Nero uses a gunhammer which is as ridiculously oversized as you'd expect in a fantasy.

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And yet people want a hammer tank. And yet the axe tank (axes typically swing at the same speed and appeal to the same demographic that likes hammers) is currently the most popular tank, with "Fell Cleave" being the job action that resonates cross role because of how AWESOME it is. Not every sword needs to be wielded by tanks, and not every tank needs to wield a sword.

Gunblade can easily be a tank, and i have said it before and will say again in that we have enough dps until 6 or 7.0

What is "cool" is entirely subjective. Therefore any serious argument based on the premise "X role gets all the cool jobs" is an exercise in futility.

You could approach it from a numbers angle- "X role gets more jobs that are highly requested" or "X role gets more jobs that are popular in other FF games" but that's about as close as you can get.

How would a new tank play any differently than the 3 you currently have tho? DRK is already a mesh between PLD and WAR. All three already feel the same to me. Granted I only play tanks to level them. DPS jobs at least feel "slightly" different. Also with all the trouble they've had balancing 3 tanks and 3 healers do you really think they could balance 4 of each?

That being said... If Gunblade is a tank I'll live. I just would have preferred it to be a DPS since that is what I main. But hey, at least it wont be a limited job...

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

How would a new tank play any differently than the 3 you currently have tho? DRK is already a mesh between PLD and WAR. All three already feel the same to me. Granted I only play tanks to level them. DPS jobs at least feel "slightly" different. Also with all the trouble they've had balancing 3 tanks and 3 healers do you really think they could balance 4 of each?

That being said... If Gunblade is a tank I'll live. I just would have preferred it to be a DPS since that is what I main. But hey, at least it wont be a limited job...

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how would a new dps will play diferently than the 9 we currently have? you know the question works the same for DD, all tanks are pretty diferent each other in terms of gameplay despite they share the same mechanics to operate they role they optimization its pretty diferent from each other so there is no reason to say gunblade will not have a new amazing gameplay for tanks specially since we are stuck with only 3 compared to 9, you know we will love some new fresh blood on our role, tank balance is still a mesh but is not worse that dps balance mesh.

Why not a tanking and a dps crystal like sommoner/scholar

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

How would a new tank play any differently than the 3 you currently have tho? DRK is already a mesh between PLD and WAR. All three already feel the same to me. Granted I only play tanks to level them. DPS jobs at least feel "slightly" different. Also with all the trouble they've had balancing 3 tanks and 3 healers do you really think they could balance 4 of each?

That being said... If Gunblade is a tank I'll live. I just would have preferred it to be a DPS since that is what I main. But hey, at least it wont be a limited job...

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That's because they're confined in their role. Every job in a role does the same thing, but get there in a different way. PLD/WAR/DRK have playstyle differences even if they're all tanks however slight they may be. Same with all the healers and dps. Strict balancing is actually causing everything to feel similar.

Tanks and healers have been waiting 2-4 years for just one job. Feelsbad. DPS have gotten a job every expansion and sometimes in between them (Ninja), tanks/heals have barely gotten anything while DPS just got 2.

Now, if we still get a tank and healer job and gunblade is dps, go for it. 3 more new jobs seems very unlikely though considering BLU.

It is most likely going to be a Tank Job considering how things are currently.

I honestly love Gunblade mostly because the choice of style for it was usually a Melee Magic Job that implemented Mana through special bullet rounds put into the Gunblade in Fantasy style worlds. Making this a weapon that anyone can pick up no matter if they have Magic talent or not.

That is basically why Squall can perform all his elemental Magic using only his Gunblade and from the Trailer design of Thancred Gunblade (most likely how our player Gunblade Job weapons maybe designed) it seem that maybe how it works for the Gunblade Job use of the Gunblade which will follow more to Squall's Gunblade combat style since there is no Gun barrel to fire bullets but bullet slots still exists to place in Magic elemental rounds to empower the Gunblade to perform elemental attacks.

https://www.mmobyte.tv/wp-content/up...V-gunblade.png

A bit sad it is most likely going to be a Tank though but guess I will just have to use the current DPS jobs until a actual Melee Magic Sword User DPS Job is released. I will still level Gunblade Job for the Job storyline but won't Main it because my preferred play style is DPS role.

(PS Still waiting for a actual Melee Magic Sword DPS Job. Not that Range Magic Sword DPS Job Red Mage that only use melee for in and out small moments but rather a true Magic Melee Sword DPS Job.)

(PSS Looks like Thancred maybe using the FF14 version of Revolver)

Its going to be a tank. Even though squall in FFBE is a dps, he is the tankiest dps in that game. So it makes sense that Gunblade is a tank.

If gunblade is a dps job then we can expect the other job to also be a dps job which will screw over tank and healer players again.

Theoretically Gunblade could be a DPS Job, but that means we'd be seeing three Jobs released with an expansion again, and I do believe the Developers stated that was very difficult with Heavensward, especially when they had implemented Ninja just prior to it. Implementing Blue Mage just prior to Shadowbringers would be repeating the issue if we were getting three new jobs.

Right now we really need a new Tank and Healer Job each. Players of both roles were extremely upset with Stormblood only providing two new DPS jobs.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Theoretically Gunblade could be a DPS Job, but that means we'd be seeing three Jobs released with an expansion again, and I do believe the Developers stated that was very difficult with Heavensward, especially when they had implemented Ninja just prior to it. Implementing Blue Mage just prior to Shadowbringers would be repeating the issue if we were getting three new jobs.

Right now we really need a new Tank and Healer Job each. Players of both roles were extremely upset with Stormblood only providing two new DPS jobs.

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The issue was mainly because of Ninja during 2.X and the three Jobs in 3.0 release. That is basically 4 new jobs they had to work on which stressed them.

If they stick to releasing new jobs down to 1 on Patch X.X and 2 on X.0 or just 3 on X.0 only then the stress may have been far less since the focus would have been only on 3 Job's development rather than 4 new job development.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Its going to be a tank. Even though squall in FFBE is a dps, he is the tankiest dps in that game. So it makes sense that Gunblade is a tank.

If gunblade is a dps job then we can expect the other job to also be a dps job which will screw over tank and healer players again.

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Considering the design looks to be Squall Style Gunblade, I am not surprised if it becomes a DPS Tank like Warrior but with Elemental Bullet Mechanics instead of Rage.

The question remains then, will it rival Warrior as a equal, less, or better in the DPS Tank reputation?

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Originally Posted by Dark_Lord_Kuro

Why not a tanking and a dps crystal like sommoner/scholar

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The devs have stated point blank that was a mistake they won't be repeating, and the further we go from it, the more likely it seems they will be splitting the two apart and abandoning the class/job system entirely.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

The devs have stated point blank that was a mistake they won't be repeating, and the further we go from it, the more likely it seems they will be splitting the two apart and abandoning the class/job system entirely.

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I dearly hope sch and summoner gets split from arcanist. It would make life much easier. Both balance wise and it would prevent people who think playing sch is the same as smn (even if they mean well).

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

it would prevent people who think playing sch is the same as smn (even if they mean well).

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What exactly do players do that makes you think this?

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Considering the design looks to be Squall Style Gunblade, I am not surprised if it becomes a DPS Tank like Warrior but with Elemental Bullet Mechanics instead of Rage.

The question remains then, will it rival Warrior as a equal, less, or better in the DPS Tank reputation?

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Personally I'm of the mind that Gunblade could make for the next Ranged DPS class that isn't a caster. We got Mechanist in Heavensward after all. That said I would be shocked if Gunblade was purely ranged. I imagine it'd be a bit like RDM in having a Ranged/Melee set of skills. Or even attunements/stances/auras/whatever which alter abilities for ranged/melee. Kind of like an AST's Sects, but in this case it locks you into a play-style for a battle. Perhaps ranged is more utility based and melee does more debuffs?

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Originally Posted by shao32

how would a new dps will play diferently than the 9 we currently have? you know the question works the same for DD

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I fully support tanks and healers getting new classes this time around, as stormblood really was unfair, but I dont think its accurate to make this comparison. Damage dealers have notably more complex rotations as their only consistent responsibility is to damage things. This opens them up to more flexibility in themes as well.

Tanks and healers have more specific roles. They do have rotations, but they have to be simpler because they have other priorities during a fight. That means that no matter how different they try to make tanks, a large part of their kit always has to be aggro management and damage mitigation. Same with healers. That's why people ask where you would go. Paladins are better for physical enemies, dark knights for magical, and warriors try to heal through it all with more hp. There aren't too many other ways to build a class around surviving damage and feel unique.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Theoretically Gunblade could be a DPS Job, but that means we'd be seeing three Jobs released with an expansion again, and I do believe the Developers stated that was very difficult with Heavensward, especially when they had implemented Ninja just prior to it. Implementing Blue Mage just prior to Shadowbringers would be repeating the issue if we were getting three new jobs.

Right now we really need a new Tank and Healer Job each. Players of both roles were extremely upset with Stormblood only providing two new DPS jobs.

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Yoshi P: "It'd be difficult to bring BLU to FFXIV"
also Yoshi P: "But I didn't say that we wouldn't do it!"

So probably,
Yoshi P: "It was hard to made three jobs in an expansion"
also Yoshi P: "But I didn't say that we wouldn't do it again!"

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Personally I'm of the mind that Gunblade could make for the next Ranged DPS class that isn't a caster. We got Mechanist in Heavensward after all. That said I would be shocked if Gunblade was purely ranged. I imagine it'd be a bit like RDM in having a Ranged/Melee set of skills. Or even attunements/stances/auras/whatever which alter abilities for ranged/melee. Kind of like an AST's Sects, but in this case it locks you into a play-style for a battle. Perhaps ranged is more utility based and melee does more debuffs?

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After the introduction of RDM, I could see it working in reverse with Gunblade. Mostly melee attacks, but can "jump" back to do some ranged attacks.

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Originally Posted by Symon17

I fully support tanks and healers getting new classes this time around, as stormblood really was unfair, but I dont think its accurate to make this comparison. Damage dealers have notably more complex rotations as their only consistent responsibility is to damage things. This opens them up to more flexibility in themes as well.

Tanks and healers have more specific roles. They do have rotations, but they have to be simpler because they have other priorities during a fight. That means that no matter how different they try to make tanks, a large part of their kit always has to be aggro management and damage mitigation. Same with healers. That's why people ask where you would go. Paladins are better for physical enemies, dark knights for magical, and warriors try to heal through it all with more hp. There aren't too many other ways to build a class around surviving damage and feel unique.

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This is actually a good point.

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Originally Posted by Fland

Yoshi P: "It'd be difficult to bring BLU to FFXIV"
also Yoshi P: "But I didn't say that we wouldn't do it!"

So probably,
Yoshi P: "It was hard to made three jobs in an expansion"
also Yoshi P: "But I didn't say that we wouldn't do it again!"

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This too.

I wonder if the final stage of Relic for the gunblade will be a glowing Lionheart :D
A Flame Sabre with a fire effect would be pretty cool too. Whilst I am hoping Gunblader is a tank (since I haven't fully leveled a tank since HW), I would still play it if it was dps (even with the queue times T-T)

ill be honest i think were gonna be getting 3 jobs in 5.0 not including blu but thats just a hunch cas multiple means more then 2 in my opinion and they said 5.0 will bring multiple new jobs and since blu is coming in 4.5 im pretty sure were getting 3 new jobs in 5.0 so its possible were getting gun as a dps or a tank time will tell

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Originally Posted by RubyCirha

ill be honest i think were gonna be getting 3 jobs in 5.0 not including blu but thats just a hunch cas multiple meens more then 2 in my opinion and they said 5.0 will bring multiple new jobs and since blu is coming in 4.5 im pretty sure were getting 3 new jobs in 5.0

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While multiple could very well mean 3, just as someone posted 2 pages back in this thread, Stormblood also got the tag line multiple and only had 2 jobs.

And they were not a new job before stormblood, even limited job, so I think there is less chance to get 3 new jobs than in 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Symon17

I fully support tanks and healers getting new classes this time around, as stormblood really was unfair, but I dont think its accurate to make this comparison. Damage dealers have notably more complex rotations as their only consistent responsibility is to damage things. This opens them up to more flexibility in themes as well.

Tanks and healers have more specific roles. They do have rotations, but they have to be simpler because they have other priorities during a fight. That means that no matter how different they try to make tanks, a large part of their kit always has to be aggro management and damage mitigation. Same with healers. That's why people ask where you would go. Paladins are better for physical enemies, dark knights for magical, and warriors try to heal through it all with more hp. There aren't too many other ways to build a class around surviving damage and feel unique.

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You can easily make any new tank and healer unique like any DD, timers, consistency, how much you depend of you resources or your burst windows, sustained? Semi burst? Or big burst? Dot based meaby?, some kind of procs?how you desing the mitigations tools?, how much raw damage they will mitigate?, what is his frequency?, we desing it having many long recast strong coldownds or we make it limited but more consistent number of skills? Will cost gauge? MP? Meaby both? There is a plenty of combinations of all this questions to make any new tank or healer feel unique and fun.
the only limitation is you imagination, you are not more limited for being tank or a healer, the same way you can make some DD being based on heavy burst windows and make it different you can make mitigation tanks or shield healers work around that in different ways and have different dps rotation to work around.

Edit: btw PLD is not better against physical or WAR work around his high HP pool on defiance and self heals to survive, only DRK is bit better against magic outside of grit but all tanks are equally effective against any kind of damage.

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Originally Posted by Super_Bee_Brian

Gunblade job must be a DPS.

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Nah, it must bee a tank.

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Originally Posted by shao32

You can easily make any new tank and healer unique like any DD, timers, consistency, how much you depend of you resources or your burst windows, sustained? Semi burst? Or big burst? Dot based meaby?, some kind of procs

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Those differences can exist in damage rotations, but non dps roles typically have simpler damage rotations because they can't just dps and dodge mechanics. A DPS goes into an encounter really only caring about performing their rotation properly while not dying. Tanks and healers still have to do this, but tanks need to manage skills and cooldowns in order to survive heavier hits, establish and maintain the most enmity, and swap for some fights. Likewise, healers have to heal through consistent party-wide damage while keeping everyone in good shape, throw out raises, and manage mp a little more than most. These things may not be necessary in every fight, but every tank and healer added has to have the ability to do these things.

That leads to every tank and healer first being designed to perform in that way. They do have differences in the ways they push dps while doing those things, but they share a "core" in a way that DPS jobs don't. That can be further seen in they way they implemented DRK and AST. Those jobs kinda felt like they started with a PLD and WHM base, then built up from there.

By comparison, when a DPS is added the only real requirement is to push damage at the same rate as others. Any defensive, healing, or utility skills included are totally optional and can be added in different ways and amounts to make them even more unique.

I don't say any of this to mean it's impossible to create something new for tanks and healers. It just seems to me that it's not a 1 to 1 comparison, and it is a bit harder to properly do. This seems especially true in a game like FFXIV, where combat is pretty inflexible (This encounter needs to play out exactly like this or everyone dies), and class design doesn't deviate much from traditional fantasy archetypes (Tanks are "warriors", mages wear dresses, etc.).

A lot of people here mentioned BLU and even as the 3rd job for SB/SHB but the thing is we can't count BLU as either Shadowbringers' or Stormblood's job since it's gonna be available in ARR. So technically it's an ARR job.

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Originally Posted by Lumivyory

A lot of people here mentioned BLU and even as the 3rd job for SB/SHB but the thing is we can't count BLU as either Shadowbringers' or Stormblood's job since it's gonna be available in ARR. So technically it's an ARR job.

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BLU is a SB job. It will be introduced in SB months before Shadowbringers is released. Yoshi P said it wasn't counted among the jobs coming then, too. It will only be able to do ARR content right away, but it's still a job being introduced in SB.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

In fantasy, hammers are tied to dwarfs...which Final Fantasy XIV does not have.

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Dwarves are confirmed to be the other beast tribe alongside No Mou in Shadowbringers

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Originally Posted by Symon17

Those differences can exist in damage rotations, but non dps roles typically have simpler damage rotations because they can't just dps and dodge mechanics. A DPS goes into an encounter really only caring about performing their rotation properly while not dying. Tanks and healers still have to do this, but tanks need to manage skills and cooldowns in order to survive heavier hits, establish and maintain the most enmity, and swap for some fights. Likewise, healers have to heal through consistent party-wide damage while keeping everyone in good shape, throw out raises, and manage mp a little more than most. These things may not be necessary in every fight, but every tank and healer added has to have the ability to do these things.

That leads to every tank and healer first being designed to perform in that way. They do have differences in the ways they push dps while doing those things, but they share a "core" in a way that DPS jobs don't. That can be further seen in they way they implemented DRK and AST. Those jobs kinda felt like they started with a PLD and WHM base, then built up from there.

By comparison, when a DPS is added the only real requirement is to push damage at the same rate as others. Any defensive, healing, or utility skills included are totally optional and can be added in different ways and amounts to make them even more unique.

I don't say any of this to mean it's impossible to create something new for tanks and healers. It just seems to me that it's not a 1 to 1 comparison, and it is a bit harder to properly do. This seems especially true in a game like FFXIV, where combat is pretty inflexible (This encounter needs to play out exactly like this or everyone dies), and class design doesn't deviate much from traditional fantasy archetypes (Tanks are "warriors", mages wear dresses, etc.).

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When you desing a DD is not only "dealt damage", you need to think the type of DD is, is mele or ranged? If is ranged is a caster or "ranged" (BRD-MCH)? That's they core since it's pretty important to desing encounters based on this, now we have that you have to desing the new DD to interact with the current ones like new tanks or new healers have to do too, you know sinergy between the jobs, and then choose what kind of damage will have, if they will have party buffs ect ect and addapt the other jobs with the new additions to make all of them relevant for the 4 slots they have on party.
they have some requeriments, right now for example the requeriments for adding a new DD will be not being melee since we have 4, being ranged since we have only 2 and meaby caster but that's force the machine a bit, and obviously the sinergy and all the stuff with his 9 brothers so is not limitless as you think.

BTW merry christmas ^^

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

BLU is a SB job. It will be introduced in SB months before Shadowbringers is released. Yoshi P said it wasn't counted among the jobs coming then, too. It will only be able to do ARR content right away, but it's still a job being introduced in SB.

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It's introduced in SB but it will be available for people who don't even have Heavensward. If it's available for people who only have ARR then it's an ARR job. If it was a SB job it would be locked and you'd have to have SB expansion to play it.

Hasn't every gunblade in garlean empire on ffxiv always wear heavy plate armor just like a tank does. Don't see it being dps class.

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Originally Posted by Symon17

Those differences can exist in damage rotations, but non dps roles typically have simpler damage rotations because they can't just dps and dodge mechanics.

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This is just completely false.

Healers need about 10-13 skills dedicated to the healing to be capable of pulling their weight in every content while not being overpowered. Tanks need about the same, but can supplement their damaging skills with tanking skills. That means that 15-20 skills can be whatever, including a complicated rotation.

Holding aggro costs nothing at all...but slapping "Generates Additional Enmity" on skills. As Warrior shows, the skills with additional enmity can be quite capable at dealing damage (Overpower, Steel Cyclone etc). Seeing as higher damage ALSO generates higher enmity...there really is no reason why a tank cannot have a complex rotation for that. Especially since tanks should NOT dodge everything like a headless chicken. If they do, they risk cleaving the whole party (which Tsukuyomi proves with her cleaves in the middle of the fan phase), they interfere with the DPS's damage rotation etc. Some of the lesser attacks can be "eaten" without problem. And even if they do need to dodge...how does that make it any different for them in comparison to Samurai, Ninja, Monk or Dragoon?!


Now, healers are a bit more restricted, in part. It is possible to have spells that both heal and deal damage (like Assize), but having too many of them would overpower the job. On the other hand, healers would need to frequently break combos to throw a heal or two. But...it is possible to add several ability heals with cast times or spells that don't break combos...and suddenly you can have a proper rotation and still keep on healing in-between. Problem solved. Mix that with attacks that heal small amounts on top of dealing damage and you have a healer with sustainable rotation that does its job.


In other words...no, neither healers nor tanks are limited and need to be bland and similar to each other. Healers and tanks have MORE functions than DPS. More functions means more options. Healers and tanks can be LESS bland than DPS. It is just more difficult to make since it requires balancing each of these both to other classes and to the other function at the same time.