they are allowing custom UI's and im sure the first design by fans will look like classic ff
http://s14.postimage.org/fykfgi4n3/f...ne_pc_4321.jpg
Battle Command Design -PLEASE FIX IT
Printable View
-
02-17-2012, 04:57 AMIrondude
-
02-17-2012, 05:01 AMIrondude
haha here you go even better
http://s10.postimage.org/w278k9449/f...e_pc_43212.jpg -
02-17-2012, 06:18 AMKhal_Drogolol <3 -thank you!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Irondude
-
02-17-2012, 06:50 AMKhal_DrogoThat's not true at all. I assure you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
~You used the menu system to engage and initiate an attack (unless you really milked your macros and used /a)
~You used the menu system to /check ppl
~You used the menu system to access and use your food/drinks
~And you probably used the menu system to do your ranged attack and several abilities/spells you didn't feel like macro'n (or didn't have room for on your "Job-Specific" macro list)
lol, ok, that's a BIT of an exaggeration. No one is asking that EVERYTHING that is "good enough" should be kept the same. And, I seriously doubt that Natabant wants FFXIV to be a carbon copy of XI (as I'm sure you know too).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
Granted, there were an innumerable amount of problems w/ FFXI, and I'm glad SE changed some of it up. But this action bar, the horrible party-play for exp'n, the armoury/class system, the market wards, this questing crap planned for jobs, and turning end-game content into focus on crafting rather than hard boss fights and so on...it's all awful. In this case, sorry to say, but "if it ain't broke" logic couldn't apply more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
I'm not saying "there's nothing better out there." In fact, someone MAY eventually design a better UI, but in the mean time, let's at least settle for what works. The "nested, unintuitive" system in FFXI, that you condescendingly referred to, is FAR superior to this abomination they call the action bar. And if anything, it's MORE intuitive. Not only does it list *all your spells/abs/ws, it actually categorizes them, so you can immediately access a specific action.
There's nothing "intuitive" about the action bar. I can't tell you how many times I've smashed "abilities" thinking they were Weapon Skills b/c they have a tp cost associated w/ them. -
02-17-2012, 07:38 AMRydinby saying we should settle for it... you're implying it isn't ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
I definitely respect your opinion... I just can't see how Macro use is different in either case
Macros and an Action bar is no different than Macros and a Menu
You can also arrange the action bar to help alleviate any confusion regarding what you want to use
Lastly... using the actual Menu instead of the Action Bar cause you to spend a lot more time staring at text and not at the action going on... the Character and MOB models look incredible... -
02-17-2012, 09:31 AMKhal_DrogoI agree that the menu system isn't "ideal" in the sense that we can never truly attain perfection. But for all intents and purposes, the traditional FF menu system *is perfection, imo. It's sleak, condensed, and to the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
And if anything, the action bar is the one that causes players to spend more time staring and scrolling through their actions (instead of the incredible character and MOB design models).
Text is a lot less distracting these big, flashy, primitive flashing icons (faded out when unavailable, colored when available, etc.). So, I'm sorry to say it, but the action bar is an abomination; as is the targetting system. XI is superior to XIV on both counts. -
02-17-2012, 09:42 AMJinko
I hated FF11's menu based system and so glad they changed to action bars for this one.
I normally play with gamepad unless I'm in battle when i switch to mouse and keyboard because its easier and faster to use number keys.
If you are a noob maybe, it only takes a couple of hours to get used to where actions are placed on an action bar.Quote:
And if anything, the action bar is the one that causes players to spend more time staring and scrolling through their actions (instead of the incredible character and MOB design models).
I think you will find that text is more primitive than on screen graphics.Quote:
Text is a lot less distracting these big, flashy, primitive flashing icons
I'll agree that the targeting system is still pretty terrible. -
02-17-2012, 09:54 AMRydinIm sorry you feel that way because the current team seems to think nested menus are counterproductive to their vision of the gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
Also... it is absolutely true that FFXI's UI discouraged MANY new players. It worked for you.. I understand that. But it didn't work for a lot of people. Im not doubting that you enjoyed it... You seem to have enjoyed it very much, unfortunately many did not.
FFXI was known for amazing storylines.... and tons of diverse content. The battle UI is never mentioned in a conversation about what was great with FFXI... and for good reason... I'm guessing we could go with this for hours but the one thing that stands out the most
this is the best argument for why we shouldn't go for that. Im personally tired of "in the mean time" from this game. I want SE to stop worrying about quick fixes and just get on with what the want to do....Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
Maybe one day SE will make a turn based MMO with nested menus and random battles....
But for right now... My vote would be no -
02-17-2012, 10:15 AMKhal_DrogoI wasn't saying that you have to stare at the screen and scroll back and forth b/c you don't know what actions you have equipped. I was saying that the action bar is more distracting b/c you can't help but scroll through the lists to see if your timers are back up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
And I wasn't disputing the primitivity of a text display. I was simply stating that "ooo, pretty" icons are about the worst substitutions conceivable...Plenty of ppl play with controllers, and ps3 players obviously will too; so, to justify the action bar just b/c it's easy to navigate w/ a keyboard and mouse isn't a valid argument. I knew console players who didn't even own/use keyboards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
If FFXIV wanted to appease the PC gamer, rather than the console players, then they should have just said from the beginning that they had NO PLANS to release XIV to consoles, EVER. It would have saved us all a lot of time and disappoinment. -
02-17-2012, 10:39 AMShadowCadjaSorry to say but this action bar works seriously well with a controller(much better than with a keyboard for me and many others), so I don't really understand what you really talking about...Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
-
02-17-2012, 11:22 AMKhal_DrogoAre you kidding me? Do you have any idea how many ifrit fights I've been in where ppl got caught in one of the specialty moves b/c they were having to coordinate looking down to hit a key, or pay close attention to which icon their controller is scrolling onto? And how many times I've accidentally scrolled down to a 2nd or 3rd list while scrolling left/right b/c the d-pad is too sensitive?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowCadja
The action bar is a HORRIBLE template for controller users...so, "I don't really understand what *you're talking about" <.< -
02-17-2012, 11:46 AMRydinDo you know how many people I play with who that's never happened to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
and the same people too distracted by the action bar to get out the way of an Ifrit ability....
Do you think they wont suffer the same fate with a nested menu? -
02-17-2012, 11:51 AMNatabant3? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
It does happen... -
02-17-2012, 12:33 PMKhal_DrogoActually, I do. In fact, they'll probably dodge them like pros. How often do you remember yourself opening up your battle menu, in XI, and trying to take a look at your timers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
....It never happened. No one felt the need to look at timers. They just spammed their macro, got prompted w/ a mssg in the chat log box, letting them know what their timers were at, and went on their merry way. If nothing else, they should use the down/up buttons on the d-pad for something else, and use L1/R1 for swapping between slot lines. Personally, I hate the active and passive modes.
The menu system looks nice; it's nostalgic; it's efficient; and, best of all, it doesn't have to replace anything.....OPTIONS, "yes please." Why does it always have to be either/or? -
02-17-2012, 12:49 PMRydinYou've sold me... I can't think of a more efficient way to do it. Spamming macros to see my cooldowns... sounds genius.. why can't every game do that....Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
oh wait...
edit: Really? thats really the solution? I had to edit just to say, once again, how bad that sounds -
02-17-2012, 05:20 PMAlcideDude... change party '>.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
Seriously, I never thought this thread could have gone this long, so let's cut it down. Fast paced BS + text based menu is a total fail, from every point of view. If you wanna do somethin fast you just don't want to read, you want to recognize what you're gonna do by giving just a quick glance at the menu, you don't want to stop reading, and that's why an action bar with icons is way better than a classic FF menu. I agree that the fact that you have to scroll it down is annoying, but they alrady said they're gonna make all of the actions visible at the same time, so that's really not an argument. And some icons are looking quite too similar (hello Second Wind and Dark Seal) but the majority of them are definitely recogniable.
Now I get that a classic FF menu can have its own fashion, that someone might like its feeling of nostalgia, but let's just stop pretending that it could work better. Every designer knows that icons owns text ALWAYS, in any situation, in any project, videogame or whatever. It's just a fact. -
02-17-2012, 06:03 PMChardrizard
He is just running out of ideas on how to justifies this thread when mostly are against the idea of FFXI UI.
-
02-18-2012, 10:49 AMKhal_Drogolol actually, it's just the opposite. There are so many ways to justify going back to XI's UI for battle, XI's targetting, Xi's job system (with adjustments to achieve balance), XI's battle style (at least the choice to do long high-exp fights, instead of having to kill 3000 monsters every 17 seconds), and so much more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
The problem is that I'm running out of energy trying to convince WoW c#$%-suckers that XI had the potential to be one of the best MMORPGs in existence...and that XIV has/had even more potential to do so, b/c it could/can learn from XI's mistakes.
Unfortunately, it seems that none of the people on these forums have any vision (at least not any of those on the other side of the fence...aka anti-XI ppl). You hear the words "Final Fantasy XI" and run off, screaming "rape."
Well, if you want to ostracize the console community with this ghetto action bar, be my guest. No variation of that abomination will ever get my vote.
Let's just pray that the rumor, about ps3 users having access to popular add-ons, is actually true. -
02-18-2012, 05:00 PMNatabantQuote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
I don't know why ya'll can't all just come in here, and simply post: "I absolutely agree; SE should strongly consider giving players this option. It certainly wouldn't hurt."
Do you ppl really think you're being productive w/ all this bickering? It may not be a "game-changer" to have the option...but it I assure you it would go a long way in bringing back many of the FF fans.
First of all, that's not true at all. That might be the case for PC players, but try navigating your "precious" "WoW" UI w/ a controller. It would suck. And having a screen full of 30 icons to navigate back and forth between, practically, FORCES players to use a mouse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcide
-
02-18-2012, 09:39 PMAllistar
We all have different preferences, all the OP is asking for is a choice, and I don't see the problem with that. Some of you prefer the action bar, others like myself don't...we are all entitled to our opinion and beliefs. Stop bashing each other's ideas and thoughts. Options are what’s going to increase the game's player base, no one system is better than the other and no one system works for everyone. Change is good...yes, but so are options.
-
02-19-2012, 02:39 AMJinkoIf SE wanted to appease the PC gamer the current UI wouldn't be anything like it is now, the current UI is massively centered around using a game pad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
Yoshi-p has already said he plans to have 2 seperate UI one for keyboard and mouse players and one for gamepad players. (its worth noting the Yoshi-p plays using keyboard and mouse just for reference) -
02-22-2012, 02:28 AMRydinIm sorry... it was a horrible idea...Quote:
Originally Posted by Natabant
I don't know why ya'll can't all just come in here, and simply post: "I absolutely agree; SE should strongly consider giving players this option. It certainly wouldn't hurt."Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
You've sold me... I can't think of a more efficient way to do it. Spamming macros to see my cooldowns... sounds genius.. why can't every game do that....Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
oh wait...
edit: Really? thats really the solution? I had to edit just to say, once again, how bad that sounds
Do you ppl really think you're being productive w/ all this bickering? It may not be a "game-changer" to have the option...but it I assure you it would go a long way in bringing back many of the FF fans.
If your friend was like "Hey Natabant, let's go rob a bank"
You wouldn't say "I respect that you came up with an idea... but how about we try something else"
No... instead you say "What the hell is wrong with you... that is idiotic.. and by extension... so are you"
I'm not saying you guys are idiots... I'm just saying I found nothing positive about that suggestion...
edit: I just reread your post.. and I must be crazy because it sounds like you said "Why can't people just come in here and agree with me"
You sound like Hillary Clinton Circa 2007-2008
Who says that?
haha... why would we not say that? maybe because we don't feel that way...Quote:
Originally Posted by Natabant
Are you trolling? I'm not accusing you... I'm just asking
Why would you expect people to come in and say they agree with you when they clearly don't agree with you.... I don't get it... Im missing something -
02-22-2012, 03:36 AMelreed
I know you hate it, and this is the #1000 thread about this, is not hard to play with a gamepad, i use one and dont have any trouble, and for those who say that they would like the action menu like FFXI well i dont think the majority used it that much for everything, ussually you had a macro set up so it was kinda same the way it was used then than what we have now, you had 10 macros in each side that you clicked and executed several actions without scrolling the menu, you even have the same choice in FFXIV, they could upgrade the system a little bit to lessen the lag while scrolling, right now i use the gamepad for mobility, bar scrolling and targeting and i click directly the actions in my keyboard, so get just to it.
-
02-22-2012, 09:20 AMKhal_DrogoWell, if you take the mssg out of context (like you did), then yes it comes off that way. But he was, obviously, referring to the general theme of the thread. Almost, EVERYONE, agrees that the current UI is complete S#$%. Not all them like MY idea, but they do agree that a change needs to be made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
Natabant was simply proposing that everyone should start being constructively critical of other ppl's ideas, rather than coming in here and saying: "your idea is CRAP! ME NO LIKEY!!!! <end post>"
And, I hate to tell you this, but the reason this game is failing so badly is b/c it failed to please it's XI fanbase. SE was pretty much guaranteed to get EVERY fan from FFXI to play this game, had they just brought back some of the fundamentals (i.e. battle UI, targetting system, job system (although it did need some tweeks w/ the nin crap going on), jse and level specific armor, party play for exp'n, general battle pace, etc.). And, now, b/c of their desperate attempt to appeal to WoW players and "like-minded" pc gamers, XIV is dying.
It's a classic case off "cut off your nose, to spite your face" or w/e the hell that saying is... Your ostracizing the only player-base that will pretty much guarantee this game's success. The game is being released to PS3. It's being *RE*-released to PC. Who do you think is more likely to rush to the stores to purchase the game? PC players into WoW, SWtOR, EQ, GW and so on? .....or PS3 players who are into XI? -
02-22-2012, 09:26 AMRydinSorry.... I stopped reading right there... Maybe you made some good points after that... maybe you didn't...Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
But I hate when people make baseless generalizations like that
Almost everyone? really? many posts in here have supported your idea but those are all by 2 people....
I've seen quite a few people say they have no problem with the Action Bar... and others who say they just want to be able to see all their cooldowns....
You just can't speak For everyone....
Bad Khal... SMH
edit:
ok... that was mean... I went back and read your entire post....
And I've got to say.... three hundred thousand people does not a successful game make...Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
It might not be "losing" money... but its not breaking any records.....
FFXI AT IT'S HEIGHT... did 500k.... FFXIII sold 2 million in the first week.. IN JAPAN ALONE
SE definitely wanted all the different players to come together.... But what they DIDN'T want was the FFXI vets alienating non FFXI players....
Like I said.. FFXI had some great ideas that FFXIV could use... the battle UI is just not one of them
And to take it a step further... Some FFXI players used Macros for everything...
In which case the new system is not unlike the FFXI one for them -
02-22-2012, 09:46 AMdarkstarpoet1
i'm sorry, but i have to say that i am a game pad user and i love the way the ui is setup. i would agree there could be come changes i would like to see, but i do not think a menu based system would help. it may work for kb/m idk. i think both ui's need some work, but i like the majority of how it is now.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...poet1/bar1.jpg
something along these lines for the gamepad i wouldn't mind, but i would want the other bars to be even smaller than i have here. it was just a quick throw together using paint, but just shows a basic idea. i like the idea of showing the bar i am on completely, but having a small section of the other 2 bars showing so i can keep up with how long is left per cool down. to do something like this they would need to work on the icons for each ability to show more of differences so you can tell what you are looking at.
yes, the system we have now is far from optimal, but it is not horrid. the biggest issue i have right now with the ui is when my cool downs show i am ready to cast an action, but the timers are 5-10 sec off at times. remember i am speaking as a gamepad user and not a keyboard player. the system in place now is much more acceptable to me than a full menu and macro based bar. -
02-22-2012, 10:07 AMKhal_DrogoOk, I'll admit that I EXAGGERATED a bit...Not everyone thinks that the battle UI is "complete s$%t;" but most do agree that it's not ideal, and they absolutely want SOME sort of change (they just don't quite know what).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
And I dunno what the hell you're talking about w/ XI's customer base. It was somewhere in the several million range in it's peak (like 2.5M to 3.25M). I assume you pulled it out of your a@@ just to make a point lol, but point not made...
"Bad Rydin...SMH"
And, btw, 3 million+ ppl are worthy of SE's attention. PC gamers had their chance. They tried the game; they hated it cuz it wasn't a WoW clone; and now they're going to ruin it for XI fans by trying to make it more appealing to *their* community.
P.S. What does SMH mean? -
02-22-2012, 11:06 AMdarkstarpoet1i'm not sure where you got these numbers from at all. according to wiki the most players xi had was 500k subscribers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
"As of 2006, between 200,000 and 300,000 active players logged in per day, and the game was the dominant MMORPG in Japan.[4] As of 2008, in an announcement for three additional expansions in development, SE noted Final Fantasy XI still has a strong user base of around 500,000 subscribers."
now it did go on to state that in april of 2009 that they had reached 2mil total characters, but this is not subscribed players nor taking into account of the people that played several alts.
"In April 2009, Square Enix announced that the total number of active characters exceeded 2 million for the first time."
my numbers come straight from wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XI
where do your 3.5 mil numbers come from? -
02-23-2012, 04:42 AMKhal_Drogolol wow...I see that you're right now. I feel retarded. I trusted the word of my friend, who is known to pull sh$% out of his a$$...I should've known better. Well, if that's the case, I'm more than happy to settle for somewhere around the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
XI was at it's "peak," for me, somewhere between 2004-2005. I don't know what the exact subscriber count was, but there were ppl all over the place, leveling in the major areas (Dunes, Korolloka, Qufim, Kazham, Altepa, etc.). CoP had just been released, recently, and the game was really flourishing. Personally, I'd rather see the game go back to some of the core aspects of FFXI (at least as far as battle UI, battle pace, targetting, party play/exp, and so on); but if the game can really get to a point where we've got millions of subscribers....then I'm willing to let most of this stuff go. XI was AWFUL when areas started to empty out.
So, "Kings to you, Fernand..." lol -Count of Monte Cristo quote -
02-23-2012, 05:46 AMAllistarQuote:
Like I said.. FFXI had some great ideas that FFXIV could use... the battle UI is just not one of them
And to take it a step further... Some FFXI players used Macros for everything...
In which case the new system is not unlike the FFXI one for them
Actually, I find using the action bar nothing like using macros from XI, and XI did do a lot of good things, majority of which were not SOP for an MMORPG, its biggest claim...it refused to be a WoW clone, or EQ, or any number of other online rpgs out there...granted it did take some good things from the games that came before it...but when it was all said and done...you knew XI from anything else, it felt different, it looked different and it played different.
Also, a game doesn't need to break records to be successful of profitable... -
02-23-2012, 06:41 AMRydinYea... thats true.. you don't have to be the biggest game ever to be a success...Quote:
Originally Posted by Allistar
But you've got to think SE wants to tap into all of these people buying these offline final fantasy titles...
Im an idealist and call me crazy but I really do think you can please everyone... ok.. maybe almost everyone... Some people will never be satisfied....
I don't know exactly how you would please most people though... but then again... I'm no game designer -
02-23-2012, 07:41 AMKhal_DrogoMost ppl don't have the "vision" to recognize "bliss" even when it's slapping them in the face. It may sound a bit narcissitic of me, but I think I know exactly what it would to take to please, virtually, every gamer out there. Nvm, it sounds REALLY narcissistic lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Rydin
The problems with games today, however, cannot be condensed into a handful of posts on these threads. And, unfortunately, since we're not face to face, it's easy for our ideas to get misinterpreted. And, frankly, ppl love to b%#@h. They won't ever stop...even when they get their way.
And, no, I'm not being hypocritical. Had XI exchanged the increase in lvl cap to 99 for a "limitless" upgrade to all meritted attributes, skills, and abilities, I can honestly say that I would be completely content with that game. That's just 1 example of a "perfect" game that would quell my "rage." -
02-23-2012, 09:15 AMdarkstarpoet1but here's the thing. xi was great for some people, but others enjoy the wow route. i'm not a fan of either xi or wow honestly. i hated xi and didn't even make it a full month before i deleted my character and never returned. wow was too cartoonish and had too much hand me everything for my liking so i left if for different reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
i'll be honest i was happier in january of last year with xiv than i was either in xi or wow. yes, the game needed tons of work, but i enjoyed the battle system, graphics, armory system, and crafting system much more than i did in those other games. it doesn't make you wrong for liking the xi system nor does it make the wow players wrong because they like that system.
the only reason i bring up xi and wow is the fact they are completely different games that are in opposite directions of each other. there is nothing that can be done to please both groups of people at the same time. they are just as opposite of each other in their desires of games they enjoy as those games are themselves. -
02-23-2012, 09:27 AMSophiaI use a controller and i have no problems whatsoever using skills in battle and i find the action bar is perfect for controller users after all it doesnt take a rocket scientist to map abilities to a convenient spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
If you are having problems using abilities with a controller its your own fault or you are using a crappy third party controller in which case its still your fault.:p -
02-23-2012, 10:09 AMKhal_DrogoThat is true, yes; but, as far as I know, XI's UI was pretty much "fool-proof" (and I mean that in the most literal sense possible). My fault or not, this shouldn't even be an issue....Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia
But, either way, I just want SE to stop ostrasizing their XI fanbase. Is it really that hard to please both parties? -
02-23-2012, 12:09 PMRydinSoph... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOQuote:
Originally Posted by Sophia
edit: too late -
02-28-2012, 08:51 AMbyyakoBecause what they have right now is kind of half ar$$ of everything... Doesnt satisfy the controller players nor the PC gamers...Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeZ
-
02-28-2012, 08:53 AMcarlosx
hey rydin where do you made this signature pls gime the website .... ty
-
02-28-2012, 12:34 PMRydinhttp://elektrikmedia.net/enezia/sigsv2Quote:
Originally Posted by carlosx
Also... If you like someones sig you can right click on it and go to "View Image" (on Mozilla firefox) and look at the actual address of the PNG or JPG -
02-28-2012, 11:29 PMJinkoThis game was never targeted at FF11 players, if you look at the interviews prior to beta, Tanaka wanted a casual experience similar to WOW and Yoshida seems to have a similar vision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo
Simply you are not getting your battle command list back, deal with it.
Isn't this being addressed in 2.0 though, man did any of you read that PDF stuff or do you just assume and complain.Quote:
Originally Posted by byyako