Wouldn't removing the tome cap allow everyone to get "raid-level gear" that they don't need easier than ever?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV
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08-20-2018, 11:05 AMMagic-Mal
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08-20-2018, 11:20 AMKaonisConsidering just about every discussion on what the game needs to become more functional boils down to a new engine it's what I'm leaning towards them doing too. If they need to make a new engine to fix many of the underlying problems with the game, then they may as well just make a new game. And considering all the monetization they are doing I see them just trying to squeeze as much cash from the game before they let it slowly die off.Quote:
Originally Posted by kyomaZZ
The problem is they need to build trust with players here and now showing that they can make a competent MMO when they have a fully developed engine. The past few years with this game are making me very dubious they can make a worthwhile MMO, let alone that they intend to make a worthwhile MMO. For being a subscription model it's pretty insulting how much of a F2P model they run. -
08-20-2018, 03:21 PMSoma
Op had lots of good stuff to say. I agree. We have large empty zones. Churning mist and sea of clouds are the worse. I get sad when, in other games that have a whole mysterious zone dedicated to a raid. We have a purple hole in the ground -.- beastmen daily really dailys? 3 quest a day lol I could go on and on but op nailed it. What are we gone do? What can we do? I still love the game. It could be so much better though.
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08-20-2018, 03:30 PMSoma
Did anyone take the SE survey? One question that surprised me was something " how interested are you in playing an mmo that isn't ffxiv?" Hmmm
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08-20-2018, 03:39 PMNezeriusGordias/Midas wasn't just for "raiders only", it was for hardcore raiders only. We had Coil before that, which was definitely not as difficult as Gordias/Midas, yet was still decently challenging.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
Having a difficulty like Savage Second Coil would've been a good option for the hardcore raiders, but they complained about the lack of rewards from that version of Savage.
There are numerous definitions on the words "casual" and "hardcore", yours simply doesn't line up with Magic-Mal's definition of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
The raid-or-die (or perhaps in this case, raid-or-wait) mentality is what cripples the gear situation in XIV. Players are expected to raid to get the very best gear, or wait 3.5-4 months for the upgrade tokens from the Alliance raid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
You do know that it's possible to have challenging non-raid content that can reward raid-level gear, right? Just look at the Mythic+ dungeon system in WoW. In that system, the dungeon's difficulty scales with the level of the Keystone that's used to start the dungeon.
For example: A level 3 Keystone will increase the health and damage of all the trash mobs/bosses by 21%. Keystones also gain an affix at Level 4, 7 and 10, at a total of 3 affixes on a Level 10 Keystone. These affixes are dungeon-wide effects, like Raging (mobs enrage at 30% health, dealing 100% more damaging until they're killed) or Bolstering (mobs buff nearby enemies, increasing health/damage), among other options.
Finishing the dungeon in time upgrades the keystone by 1, 2 or 3 levels, depending on how fast the group is. Loot iLvl is based on the level of the Keystone. There's also a Mythic chest that contains a keystone + a guaranteed piece of gear with its iLvl based on the highest Mythic+ cleared during the previous week. -
08-20-2018, 03:45 PMLuna-MI'm.... so hyped nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Laerune
This. Not all raiders have to be hardcore/midcore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra
I raid on a casual static and we've cleared this tier without a problem. -
08-20-2018, 03:50 PMMagic-MalThank youuuuuu. That is what I have been trying to get at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
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08-20-2018, 03:57 PMMoroMurasakiIf the content isn't significantly easier than current Savage it won't draw a much larger audience than Savage does now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
If the content is much easier than Savage it invalidates Savage as being the only way to acquire BiS while being much easier. Who cares about an i375 weapon from O8S if you can also pick one up by dungeoning? Might as well hit BiS before even starting Savage at that point.
If someone chooses not to do Savage that's perfectly fine but they then don't need to gear up as quickly (or honestly at all for quite some time) and they certainly don't deserve the same rewards as people putting in considerably more effort.
To put it bluntly - why does anyone not doing Savage feel like they need or deserve the same ilvl without delay as someone who is actually raiding? It just strikes me as super entitled. If you want the gear then do the content. If you don't that's fine too. -
08-20-2018, 04:11 PMDualgunnerQuote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
Did anyone argue the point that non-raid content can be challenging? Problem is, in XIV, it isn't. I agree, a Mythic+ like system would be fun, and a great change of pace especially for those who can't find seven other people to commit time to the game with, but as it is, basically all the content outside of Savage (and to a lesser extent, EX) requires very little relative technical skill. -
08-20-2018, 04:11 PMLadon
Eureka has made it sadly apparent they are completely unwilling to take any risk with the main game. Eureka is some of the biggest deviation they have take
with The Formula but it’s completely hamstrung by being optional.
Just imagine if they were able to take the MSQ through Eureka and shake up the cycle a bit or put a raid tier in one that functioned like BCNMs in FF11 that required groups of 8 to complete some Eureka based tasks before being able to take on that cycles raid bosses.
But if won’t happen because they are paralyzed at the thought of upsetting a few people with change. So we are stuck with all of the new ideas being thrown in completely optional content with unfulfilling rewards. -
08-20-2018, 05:44 PMNezeriusI'm guessing you've never heard of the Mythic+ system, or the massive success it was in Legion, to the point of being considered one of the best features that had been introduced in that expansion.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki
First of all, a dungeon with scaling difficult would already be more accessible to players, due to the simple fact of requiring half as many players (4 instead of 8). Second, the content wouldn't be "much easier than Savage", since you wouldn't be getting the raid-level gear until higher difficulty levels, that's kind of the point of the whole scaling difficulty thing.
Short answer: Because players find it fun to progress in an MMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki
Long answer: Because there's literally no other option of similar difficulty that allows players to obtain gear above the stuff that can be easily grinded for (ie: facerolling dungeons for tomestones, buying crafted gear, gear from Alliance raids). Mythic+ is seen as an alternative to raiding, without the hassle of organizing a group of 10-30 players. It allows players who prefer tight-knit groups, or prefer to have their playtime be much less schedule based (ie: hopping on to do a mythic+ or two) to still progress at a decent pace.
To answer your blunt question, because there's isn't any non-raid content at similar difficulty level, it's literally the only option people have. This is the raid-or-die mentality that I was talking about. Add actual options of similar difficulty (like WoW did), and I wouldn't be surprised for people to show interest in said options, despite having chosen to not do savage raids.
It's a direct reply to Ilan, specifically the part where they said "You basically want that you get raid gear outside of raids which is not right. If you want it put in the effort." as if people who don't raid are somehow incapable of putting in the effort of clearing difficult non-raid content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
But I agree with Ladon here. As we're reaching the fifth anniversary of ARR, it's becoming more and more apparent that SE isn't really all that interested in shaking things up, preferring the safe content cycle that they're currently working with. -
08-20-2018, 06:29 PMTheodric
If people are concerned about gear being 'devalued' then their priority should be the players selling and buying boosts for high end content. When I see someone using a weapon or title from high end content I no longer find it awe inspiring. I simply roll my eyes and wonder if they bought or sold the same boost services being advertised through the party finder. The same listings that direct people to Discord to smooth out the details instead of discussing it in the game itself.
A lot of people have also been asking for more 'tough but rewarding' content geared towards smaller groups of players. A lot of us want to raid and/or are perfectly capable of clearing high end content ourselves...but we don't ever get the opportunity to do so because of poor luck and the sheer amount of flakes that exist in the raiding community. -
08-20-2018, 06:39 PMDualgunnerIf you're that curious if they bought it, check their FFLogs; if they did, they won't have an uploaded log.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
As far as devaluing, there is an argument to be had there. However, as I've stated before, in another thread about this topic: selling runs, even for gil, is something I won't participate in. However, I won't begrudge others for making gil doing what they're good at; crafting can't be the only way to earn gil in this game, and as far as raiding is concerned, raiding anywhere within the first two months can be an expensive endeavor between potions, food, and purchased gear. For RMT, I disagree with wholeheartedly, but don't know any way to really quash that without just making it more prevalent for the attempts to quash it.
Sort of replying to both you and Nexerius atm:Quote:
A lot of people have also been asking for more 'tough but rewarding' content geared towards smaller groups of players. A lot of us want to raid and/or are perfectly capable of clearing high end content ourselves...but we don't ever get the opportunity to do so because of poor luck and the sheer amount of flakes that exist in the raiding community.
First, take in the context that, as of right now, raiding is the only high-difficulty content in the game, really. For the sake of argument, we can also assume that XIV is a lot of people's first MMO; in this specific case, it is easy to see why they would equate raiding to high-difficulty content. So when they hear "raid level gear outside of raid level content," they hear "high difficulty content gear rewarded outside of high difficulty content."
With that in mind:
If the content carries the same difficulty as savage, then yes, similar rewards should be available from it. Diadem is not the same difficulty as Savage. Eureka is not the same difficulty as Savage. Mythic+ styled content would be very fun in my opinion, and I agree fully that it would be a great way to add more gearsets to diversify one's stat build with. I also agree that one of the biggest roadblocks to getting into raiding is finding seven other people as committed as oneself. -
08-20-2018, 07:18 PMsexythaumaturge
I'm sorry, but the overworld areas all look great. Sea of Clouds made my jaw drop the first time I saw it. It's true that they're largely empty. Why not move Eureka content into them somehow? So you don't just get seals from FATEs.
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08-20-2018, 07:52 PMAlleoQuote:
Originally Posted by Ruinfeild
More NPCs that do things out there: Have someone cut down some trees, have someone just sitting there and looking at the landscape or painting things. There could be a lot of small things with NPCs that could make the world feel more alive.
Animals that are not attackable or that are passive: Nearly everything wants to kill you out there..which does not make any sense because they might even take some time for us to defeat, so how are any other NPCs surviving there? Have small animals running around, maybe a cute bunny family (just use some of the pets we have) that is running around and if you are silent you might be able to watch them and if you run too loud you will scare them away. You can also have bigger herbivore animals walking around. And how awesome would it be if the ruby sea would feel like a sea full with life?
Lore/riddles: For a game that is so proud about its story and lore its kinda lacking in that part. Yes you have the sightseeing parts but those are barely there and you can now see them thanks to the bubble. So to give us more lore about these regions, why not let us find notes or books that will tell us something about the place? (Which then will become part of our own ingame liberary) This can all range from texts about the animals living there, to the landscape itself or the history of the place. To hide them you could give us riddles to solve that will get us to the place if you do it right (and yes people can look them up but thats imo no good argument against something like that).
Other hidden items: Its quite fun to search for artifacts in Rift. They are just small balls of light but if you pick them up you get another piece for a collection. If you have completed one you will get the price. This could be something that can be done in FF14 too. Have random spawned items on the map that you need to search for (and that will only spawn for you on that place) and if you collected them all per map you will get a price.
Map Quests: Have some daily or unlimited repeatable quests on the map where you help NPCs with their daily life. Gather something for them or find something missing. This could involve riddles too. At the end you could gather points per NPC or map and with them could buy some items.
All of those are just ideas of mine but imo would help greatly with making the world feel more alive and give us a reason to do it.
@OP: I agree with your post. I just feel like FF14 is nice to look at but lacks good gameplay and content..which is imo quite important for a MMO. At the same time even though we say that Glamour (and fishing) is the true endgame we also dont have a true glamour catalogue in this game either..(and no tacklebox) so we cant even go around and get all the glamour that this game has to offer..In the end it feels like they try to do things from all parts (housing, glamour, PVP, raids) but none of those really deep and great. Most of the systems are either limited or too complicated.. -
08-20-2018, 08:00 PMLubu_Mykono
More NPCS with do things out there : Already done with FATES, random people in every zone etc.
Animals that are not attackable or passive: Why? Interaction is a lot better and it means you have to do something to earn that meat
Lore/Riddles: there are plenty of quests that don't give physical descriptions on where to go, just cues in the description. Already done.
Hidden Items: Resource Nodes already basically does this, maybe make it a bit harder oh yeah we have maps too...
Maps: This is just another name for Beast Tribe Dailies -
08-20-2018, 08:11 PMRuinfeild
I would like to see something kind of like WoW's mythic system. Was a lot more fun than I thought (considering I only ever go back to WoW every so often and play for like a month and get bored) and sure made everything feel new compared to the previous years. Having something like that in FFXIV would be nice and a good change of pace but to be at the same level or more than savage is up in the air.
HoH I believe was considered to be savage difficulty with 30+ but the weapon isn't the same ilevel (least I don't think).
What people seem to forget is that Yoshi-P (I need to go through the live letters again) said he doesn't want to do much with high end difficulty with only four players simply because if the healer drops, you lose where as with 8 people you have a better chance of coming back from mistakes. I wouldn't point at Rath though cause it doesn't have any sort of tank aggro or heavy mechanics you need to worry about other than dodge and stack. Trying to apply that sort of thing to something like Savage or Ultimate would probably just cause more problems. -
08-20-2018, 08:12 PMAlleoWith NPCs out there I simply meant that they are out to see. You cant do anything with them, the same with the animals. Whx? Well because going through a zone where barely any NPC or any normal animal is wandering around is just boring and does not feel like this is a living and breathing world. Again look at the ruby sea and compare what they have shown us in the benchmark and whats in the game..it does not provide more gameplay but does provide for a map that feels like its part of a world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono
No there are barely any quests that give you riddles and I truly mean riddles that you can randomly find in the open world without any marker. The same with the lore. You wont be taken there by a quest, you simply will have to wander the map and find them. You could say that the lore part is a wider and worked out sightseeing one. But now if you are interested in this you can get some nice information about quite a lot of things of the world and might finally go into a small cave that you normally would completely ignore because there is nothing there.
Resource nodes are only there for the gatherers, are not random thus you will also just be in certain parts of the map. Hidden items could be all over the map and will randomly appear on it.
Yes its another beast tribe daily, that would give people something to do (if they want to) and that will give them some nice small informations about the people living there.
Again those ideas are here to make the maps feel like there is life there. If you dont care you can still ignore it and yet those that care for that would finally have a real reason to get back to the maps. I mean even WoW has something like the animals, where you sometimes even can capture some of them as pets. I just find it interesting how the one game that is proud about its story and visual looks barely have any of that on the maps itself. -
08-20-2018, 08:30 PMLubu_MykonoIt's a very big MMO. I think it feels pretty alive as it is. The benchmark tool isn't mean't to be an accurate reflection of the minute to minute game-play, it's used to highlight the technical capacity as the engine for a specific system. I do agree though that if they are using the tool for falsely advertising it is wrong, but there is no evidence of this anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleo
If you like WoWs idea's then it might just be simpler to play that game. Something like riddles etc. is in essence quite pointless when you look at the resources. They would have to pay people even more to make up text, localise it, then patch it. It makes more sense to tie it to something like the major or side quests to make it worth the time involved.
Once a zone is modelled nicely and sparkled with the odd NPC, the Fates and the structural components like the buildings, ruins etc. it's left on it's own until more patch content comes that is relevant. Random riddles are not. -
08-20-2018, 08:37 PMAlleo
@Lubu_Mykono: Or people can voice their ideas instead of just getting a "if you like x just play y". I mean those are not even ideas that need a whole change of the game. Just something that would make the maps better for me. Thus if you are alright with it, its fine but not everyone needs to be that way.
(And if we argue about something being pointless then big maps that we have right now are pointless too because they have no real gameplay value and are probably just big because we can fly, so maybe they should cut them down.) -
08-20-2018, 08:44 PMBourne_EndeavorThe issue becomes they won't even attempt difficult content outside of raids, let alone dungeons. If they actually did Mythic+ styled content, I would be more open to the idea of high end raid gear being available from it, but they seem utterly afraid to make anything too difficult outside Ultimate. With that said, you have to remember WoW has a substantially different gear progression system—one heavily dependent on RNG to maintain its relevancy. Say they did end Mythic+ styled dungeons but they will weren't anywhere close to Guardian or Kefka's difficulty. Well, what reason do raiders have to touch the aforementioned two when Hell's Lid EX offers a faster alternative?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
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08-20-2018, 09:00 PMKallera
The definition of "difficulty" within this this game is too narrow. Crowd control moves and status effects other than DoTs have been largely devalued in the face of trash that dies quickly and bosses that are immune. Healers bounce the party back from any sort of non lethal damage, causing the devs to rely more and more on Vuln up and instant kill attacks to cause anything substantial. And Hard enrages/limit break gain nerfs after a certain amount of time also cause problems, with players refusing to deviate from the first strat they see on Youtube because dps is behind the most discouraging deaths:the ones at 1%.
I agree that this game needs a shake up in almost every way imaginable and soon. -
08-20-2018, 09:05 PMZojhaEgh. You can use literally any mechanic that doesn't amount to:"People take damage no matter what they do."Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinfeild
The issue with healer reliance is caused by unavoidable damage. It's "game over" when the healer dies because no matter how well you play, you're going to take more damage than you can sustain. The more such damage is going out, the faster people will inevitably die and thus, the more reliant a group becomes on the healer. On the flip side, that also means the healer role is becoming more and more stressful, because people rely more and more on them being competent.
Rathalos pretty much neuters healers with the death limit and healing debuff, but in turn makes most of his damage avoidable. That takes responsibility off the healer and allows non-healer comps to beat it, but it also makes healers feel relatively pointless. So it's not like you cannot take some burden off the healer for tough 4-man content - it's just that it can only really be done by marginalizing them. And that might be controversial. -
08-20-2018, 09:11 PMBourne_EndeavorConversely, all I hear from you is "I want the same ilvl as raiders because I deserve it! Even if the content I prefer is brain dead easy and requires no more than spamming buttons on target dummies that proc!"Quote:
Originally Posted by ElazulHP
Just because you put similar or more time into something, does not make them equal tasks. By that logic, spamming dungeons should also reward i370 gear. -
08-20-2018, 10:18 PMIlanSo we where hardcore raiders because we did that stuff. Yeah thats not true, our group was just a bunch of not even good players who had some fun. But whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
Why does it cripple anything? Why do you want the best possible gear if you don't do anything where you would need it? Just to feel good? Or to show others how good they are?
Could be nice to have something like the mythic system but you would still have the same complains because you would've to step up their game too and thats what a lot of people are just not willing to do. They just want the best gear for doing nothing whats challenging, maybe not all of them but a lot.
Lets face it, there never will be real challenging content outside of savage, ultimate and maybe some ex primals in this game because SE continues with their way to make everything easier or they just fail to create something challenging, i'll pick pagos as example for that. -
08-20-2018, 10:21 PMLorgana
Lol tfw casuals complain that they don't get raid equivalent gear when they aren't willing to do raiding. Gtfo here with that socialist thinking, this is a capitalist game ;3
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08-20-2018, 11:50 PMMahrzeBut thinking the opposite is needed is ludicrous though, because of the second 'no'. Incentive. Ruby sea's incentive is HoH and the Kojin. Fringes' incentive is the Ananta, etc. No matter how 'good' the carrot is, its only there for so long. ARR maps, even with all the nuance were mostly empty because people stay in cities or housing wards, unless you want those to be lost in favor of 'better' over-world maps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic-Mal
No, it didn't ruin it, it made obvious how barren most maps are. I know I fight an uphill battle with nostalgia and sense of wonder but maps, unless they have some sort of 'natural progression' or 'are very much alive' are only interesting after so long. Maps can be interesting with flight, but SE still has no idea on how that one works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic-Mal
But this is mostly because they can only do so much with the glamour system they have, but expecting more at this point is a bit far-fetched since the gear is the carrot, they've already perpetuated this mentality. "Do this to get this", its how every game works. And the circle jerk with the devs is they mostly play female characters so that's why most gear is usually favoring female characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic-Mal
Problem hear is that 'intricate' dungeons will just have 'the path of least resistance' as 'the right path/way' and every other option as 'bad' not only by design, but by player consensus. Even when 'all roads lead to rome' everyone wants the shortest one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic-Mal
Throwing raiders into the fray is a hit/miss issue. Because reality is, the devs decided to use the raider rewards as the highest worth measure. If the devs decided to keep this value, then its all the more reason to think 'its the best' (even though sub-stats can prove otherwise as a 'bis' and relic has been bis at expansion end due to stat customization) but even those items are not needed for most of content, plenty of raiders clear stuff under the ilvl cap and farm it. Its more of a 'medal in the form of gear' than an actual reward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic-Mal
Overall I think we're being to fatalistic with what the game does since its been doing the same thing since 2.0. Its simply more people are "woke' to the thought. But adding nuance to maps, expanding gear and other tid-bits would only mean: "this isn't enough, SE because <reasons>".
They themselves have an uphill battle with overly high expectations that they also seem to foment. Specially when the game has 30 categories of different types of content that needs investment or qol treatment and they seem to only be able to work on 1 thing every 3 months. -
08-21-2018, 12:17 AMMelodyCrystel
Hm, usually I avoid the forum since I'm no fan of some extremists here, but well... I try to use words which aren't too impolite, so let's see if still anybody wants to behead me for having an opinion that doesn't match their ideals.
About the author's critique considering the Open World:
In theory, having 'dead areas' is not necessarily a bad thing. At least I can imagine our Roleplayers – who I personally find creepy and would never want to join – will appreciate such spots. But apart from having maybe some logical reasons for having zones that are practically lifeless, there is indeed a bitter taste to wander around from Quest A to Z without seeing anything interesting. Most of the time, there are no NPCs who stand around plus interact with each other – and the total lack of 'normal animals' is annoying me since HW, because I love some of these passive creatures in ARR a lot.
(If SE gave us an Antelope or Sheep as mount, they would definitely make me happy. You guys can wish for whatever you want, but only these two and that monster-type which resembles the bird-of-paradise are on my personal list.)
About Flying:
As much as I heard, many players wished for having the ability to fly. It's of course no must to like the result, yet I find it a bit harsh to depict this feature as a game-ruining-aspect. For example: Impatient people who want to kill a Hunt will not wait for others – whether or not the selfish persons can fly. Or: Somebody who simply doesn't care for the landscape will on his/her second visit ignore everything the map offers. I am somebody who can wait hours for something and who loves pretty areas, so partly I understand the complaint, yet I presume Flying won't vanish from the game plus return in the next Expansion.
About Dungeons:
The reason why these things aren't anymore detailed in consideration of their map is simple: We players. We pulled as many monsters as possible and rushed each visit just in order to save a handful of seconds/minutes. With us being so ignorant, it's just natural SE did slowly give in as well as created only linear dungeons without any hidden corners. Before now anybody complains, he/she wouldn't be a rusher, I can assure you, that I am also no fan of hectic, yet I know SE looks at what the majority of us does, whereby their decision was made to skip anything labyrinth-like.
About Trials:
While I found the trials of HW different, I agree that in SB, there is always the same schema to recognize once one enters a new content. Surely the mechanics differ, but the basic-plan looks always identical and can be predicted. I wonder, when I was for the last time truly dazzled by a Trial, because admittedly I do not 100% remember anymore. Maybe Sophia or Zurvan, but I'm not sure...
About Raids:
Hmhm, the stuff for 8 people really looks like SE wants us to focus on our main-purpose, though I do not like the way how Alexander made us hit some Minibosses just for having access to the final exemplar. What I would prefer would be a mix of tiny dungeons and clean boss-fights, so that we don't get monotone things to do. Wasn't Coil somehow like that? Anyways, the critique about Omega's Trials is kind of a double-edged sword. Okay, they are not the most creative stuff, but at least one can notice differences between them. While I was doing Sigmascape every week once it was new, the visits didn't bore me as long as at least two of them remained considering weekly loot.
About Raiders:
Ah yes, my 'favorite' topic when it comes to the game itself... I have seen Raiders. Many of them. Pro-Raiders including. Oh yeah, a handful of Raiders is in my friend-list, even. But as much as I like to convince myself of the good nature everybody of us should wear in their hearts, I must unfortunately say I am in general no admirer of Raiders. As one who did the Mentor-challenge and obtained the Astrope, perhaps I shouldn't talk like that, but I can't change my nature: I do not like the way how SB looks more and more as if SE cares only for the minority of their players; the ones who truly match the 'insult' which the word Raider can become. I can't whitewash that – it is so obvious to me that one must be blind in order to not see it. If I hurt somebody with my words, I am really sorry, yet I notice since 4.0 how everything looks like it was content mostly made for the kind of Raiders who childishly complain once they do not get the biggest piece of a cake.
The selfishness which the bad side of that coin demonstrates frustrates me even more, because the contrariness in their opinions is so absurd that it turns my stomach upside-down. They say “You do not need best gear just for doing standard content.”, yet complain “Man, your Tanking/Healing/DPSing is too weak! This run will take ages!” --- anybody must tell me, how to deal with that inconsistency, since – even when these words aren't directed towards me – I don't want to turn my chat off as long as an instance lasts. Especially, since some of us aren't god-sent creatures who don't need good gear to compensate their skill-lack. Even while I am in the middle-field, so that it shouldn't mean anything to me, I find it awful how the weak players are kicked around for – in the end – unimportant reasons.
And holy cow, what do I hear since good old Anima about the negative-minded Raiders and their Relic-opinion... Does it really matter, what kind of gear stranger XYZ wears? Is it a personal mission to prevent a non-Pro-Raider from having good stuff to hit hard? And why must a relic-weapon have these days worthless stats, just because some Raiders thought, that the Zodiac-/Anima-weapons weren't something they'd like to try themselves? Nobody blocked this content for them or something like that, so I feel like I missed something that suddenly Relic-weapons look like toys, while a Raider-friend of mine did back then ALL Animas in HW with noticeable pride.
(And a Raider from another server became a friend of mine just because the two of us met each other due to eagerly working in HW for our Astrope. So, if anybody says Raiders have time for nothing else but their 'job', then it is definitely from my point of view a lie, because both friends wear always Savage-equipment and aren't 24 hours per day online.)
Sopp, feel free to behead me if you like to, although you shouldn't hope for a reaction coming from me. It's not very likely that I waste my time with discussions in this forum, since I – who got called 'salty' and whatever in Eureka – wouldn't be afraid of risking a ban here. Plus, with being known for acting insensitive, I definitely should try to respect the opinions others have and stop hurting their feelings willingly. -
08-21-2018, 12:46 AMRiyahArp
The problem with hard content is that it's only hard due to one-shots.
HoH hard content: everything oneshots you.
Rath ex-everything oneshots you, and you have a 3 respawn limit since he has no tight enrage (seriously, when you are 362 and need to meld vit AND use food just to survive a mistake, something is up)
Savage- screw up and it oneshots you, and you have enrage to act as a defacto life system, since raise sickness and downtime due to dps is the greatest dps loss.
hard 24 man bosses-have an attack that oneshots you (hashmal's rush, math boss on DPS)
You can't really adapt this to casual content. Bout the only way they did was to make the oneshotting very slow (titan gaols) or just make it very occasional (titan landslides.) Ultros's original mechanic, where you wiped if all 4 imps didnt hit their imp punch correctly, shows what happens if you try. -
08-21-2018, 12:53 AMMagic-MalBiS stats most likely. "Raid level gear" from content that isn't a raid already exists in the form of tome gear that everyone, even the worst players, can get. Fact is though that raid gear doesn't always have the best stats on it. Tome gear has the BiS stats all the time. Too often we end up with both raid and tome gear having the same 2 stats on it with the priority stat switched maybe. Or the tome gear being sucky but the raid gear being sucky too. It's extra boring. We can already get raid gear without raiding and could have for 6 years now so I don't know what the fuss is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
I would love to have options to get more gear pieces with different stat match-ups. If I wanna have 4,000 skill speed, I should have the opportunity to do it while still being i370. But we don't have that choice.. -
08-21-2018, 01:00 AMMahrzeBut by many standards Titan still holds itself as training ground. Same for MogEX and the Ultros fight are all "team effort or die". while the same can be true on prev 1hKO examples its not just "fail = death". That small degree of nuance makes things less "the same" even if it is in an objective view.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
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08-21-2018, 01:15 AMRiyahArpTitan's min ilvl is 57. We have an insane ilvl advantage over him now. All those fights we pretty massively outgear. Titan can only be considered training due to that, imo. Like a lot of the attacks we pretty much can soak with increased ilvl and that reduces the difficulty or makes them nolonger oneshot, and even then some mechanics are still designed to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahrze
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08-21-2018, 01:18 AMMahrzeAnd I am fairly confident that a good portion of people can't do it at min lvl because of what you mention. Content is not made to last, but plenty of those 2.0 fights had more nuance than more recent ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
And that's my point. Most fights now are boss > adds > boss. -
08-21-2018, 01:52 AMKisaiTenshiWell Yoshi-P could just throw in the towel and not develop anymore EX/Raid content. Here you go, all storyline. The thing FFXIV does, is that the EX content is not simply a buffed up storyline content, it's actually significantly different that it IS a different fight. There are things you can do in EX fights that wipe the normal one.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
If people keep complaining that something is boring, they just won't do any more of them. No more Ultimate's, no more EX's, no more raids, etc. Watch what you wish for. The the truth is that the people who say they want harder content, have that "minimum ilevel" knob available, and don't use it because there's no reward to it. Rather they just turn on all the easy-mode switches and complain it's boring.
Far be it Yoshi-P to actually put content out there that can't be completed by sneezing on it. -
08-21-2018, 02:09 AMAyer2015Given how many people find Eurerka mind numbingly boring, forcing people to do it to progress in the MSQ would likely come with many unsubs. I get some people like it..... well most doing it seem to be suffering through it, but whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladon
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08-21-2018, 02:39 AMLadonYou are assuming that piping in main content would mean the exact same design. Eureka is largely boring because the overall goal is meaningless and they can’t make it anything significant due to it being 100% optional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayer2015
A different set of goals would allow for the slight tweaking the content would need to be something different and interesting.
I mean a savage level fight that required strategic use of the magia board would be earth shattering for the game right now. -
08-21-2018, 04:18 AMElazulHPTo be honest I'd be perfectly ok with this if it was setup where there is a token that drops at a 5% drop rate or there about. Collect xx amount and unlock said gear. Would vitalize interest in dungeons - many of which are run once and then never run again unless going for glam or gets randomly picked from roulette. Which in no way devalues the raid gear like I've also previously said...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
...and i'll keep repeating this because nobody has presented a convincing logical case for why raid gear needs to be exclusively a higher ilvl and that if something is as powerful then it somehow becomes devalued instead of simply being an alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElazulHP
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08-21-2018, 04:54 AMMoroMurasakiMy two concerns are that Savage remains relevant and that any content that rewards the same gear at the same pace is the same difficulty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
It sounds like some people want the rewards without the effort. That bothers me. If you want raid gear you should be doing content that takes the same amount of time and focus.
At the end of the day it's nice that people like feeling like they're progressing but I don't care if they feel like they need another way to proceed - there is already an avenue to get savage gear. Its called savage. -
08-21-2018, 05:13 AMMagic-MalI don't recall anyone asking for the ability to get Diamond gear from dungeons. Is tome gear savage gear now? Help me with my confusion please because it exists and it seems to be just fine. Side content that is released that gives a i370 chest with Crit/Det would not be the same as the i370 raid chest that gives Crit/Skill Speed. Or even Det/Crit instead of Crit/Det.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki
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08-21-2018, 05:16 AMEdaxI spend most of my time in this game crafting and monitoring the marketboard to make large sums of gil. How come I can't use any of my hard work making gil to simply buy some really nice gear? Monitoring the MB everyday and maintaining a diverse resources stockpile to meet the demands of the market isn't exactly "easy". So why do I have to be hamstrung by armor, simply because I choose to make gil instead of raiding? Isn't this a capitalist game? And not some kind of military junta where only the raiders get the good stuff?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorgana