To people who are likely used to underperforming groups including themselves, finding a decent tank does likely make a run smoother than what they're used to.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
This is why this game should'nt get a parse
Printable View
-
12-31-2017, 02:10 AMCanadane
-
12-31-2017, 02:11 AMBourne_EndeavorAnd yet I see far more toxicity from the casual side than parse advocates. Calling out someone for essentially getting carried isn't abuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by jameseoakes
"Uh, what's going on, DRG? Your damage is way lower than it ought to be."
"Are you a dumbass? Just uninstall the game if you're gonna play like shit."
Both statements reference a parse yet only one could be reasonably labeled toxic. In the event parsers were ever implemented, the latter statement could and should be reported. Assuming the GMs do their job, said player would get a warning. So...
I firmly believe many people don't even realize how poor their performance is because this game does absolutely nothing to relay that information to the player. You have to rely on third parties for rotation guides and advice. On more than a few occasions I've talked to people after a run that I at least somewhat know and they've been shocked that what they were doing wasn't the proper rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by BluexBird
-
12-31-2017, 02:14 AMSlirith
SE just needs to break parsers like Blizzard did with certain addons that made fights super super easy.
-
12-31-2017, 02:18 AMBourne_EndeavorBlizzard isn't break parsers. They were forced to embrace them and simply developed fights around the knowledge people were using a third party program. SE delete battle logs tomorrow and people would find a way to calculate all the data. It's like ADblock. Facebook bragged how they developed the latest technology to finally beat Adblock... and it was rendered trash in less than two days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slirith
-
12-31-2017, 02:36 AMKakikoQuote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
This. I'm new to MMOs, and thus new to FF. I've only been playing since July and there was nothing anywhere about rotation. Sure, I can look at the descriptions for my BLM stuff but there's nothing suggesting a proper rotation. I've had to scrounge the internet and find one that I think is the right one? There are so many conflicting opinions on which one is the correct one, too, that makes it extremely difficult some days. I want to do my best, to make content go smoothly for everyone, but man it's hard for newbies when you have to spend lots of time researching third party sources (Reddit, forums, Youtube, etc) and I can see why some people just... don't. It eats up your time.
As for parsers. I don't care. I parse to keep an eye on my numbers and see that Im not lagging behind, say, the healer. If I'm doing less damage than a melee DPS, as long as it's not a HUGE drop (like they're doing 5k and I'm doing 1k), and we're both similarly geared, then I'm not too worried. What does worry me, is trying my best and ending up with someone's FFlogs being posted here or on Reddit complaining about how this fight or that fight was going slowly because the DPS (even if they don't call me out by name) was lagging. Of course, with one side of the story, you'll never know if that DPS was doing what they thought was best or was just being a troll and more often than not, people responding to such stories tend to side with the poster, unless it's super obvious the poster is in the wrong themselves. Public shaming sucks when you're honestly trying to do your best. Obviously, if you're blatantly trolling and casting nothing but Bliz 3, then shame away. But I think many people honestly believe they're doing the best (or maybe I just like to give people the benefit of the doubt?).
On the topic of FFlogs though, I have it and I'm having difficulty uploading my stuff. Every thing I do upload shows up as "This report contains no fights yet." I can't seem to find a solution to it (I've Googled..I have). -
12-31-2017, 02:39 AMjameseoakesWell I've got parse data on there despite not having access to a parser. It should be set to hidden by default as you have to know it exists to be able to do that. FFlogs should not be treated as something that is required in end game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baalfrog
-
12-31-2017, 02:59 AMPArcherI'll be completely honest here; most people who do not want data on them almost always have something to hide. Here, its usually really poor play because they don't want to put the effort in to learning how to play their job properly and want to get carried (includes tanks who don't swap into DPS stance or never use cooldowns and 0 DPS healers). In the endgame, you are expected to know your job and actually try to do well, FFLogs is one easy tool to use to check that.Quote:
Originally Posted by jameseoakes
Good farm groups will look someone up on FFLogs as they join parties to see what kind of player they're getting; if they see only grey logs (or no logs at all) they know they got someone hoping for a carry, which isn't something these groups want (and if its someone who hasn't cleared...well, they're really hoping for a carry in a farm party and deserve the kick and blacklist they're getting). -
12-31-2017, 03:04 AMKaethra
I will say this.. SE is weird. So... enrage timers became a thing because of parsing in EQ and damage meter addons in WoW. Since players found optimal rotations and means of DPS, they were put in to challenge said players. SE uses enrage timers in FFXIV but doesn't want us to link them or boot people from groups.
So my question is what does SE expect us to do when 3 DPS in a 8 man are doing less damage than the tanks and the group is hitting the enrage timer? No one is dying, and the tanks and healers are doing quite well, and maybe 1 DPS is doing great. But those 5 need the other 3 to perform to complete the encounter, but can't because of the little damage output. -
12-31-2017, 03:13 AMBaalfrogIt's because of this weird thing they have, that only the group matters and such, which is okay I suppose, but the sum is not larger than its parts. Like in the case of the OP and how 3 of 4 dpses did less than tanks, from SEs standpoint, the group did the thing, they beat the challenge they set for the encounter and thats all that matters to them. Someone on the know about logs and such however can easily determine that the group limped over finishline and basically got carried by the higher performing non-dps roles. In other words, they got carried.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaethra
And this is an interesting problem, because on SE's end everything is fine, people are doing the content. But this will create a split in the community about people wanting to get better and clear clean and faster and have higher number and so on, and then the other group thinks that doing barely enough is good enough because it clears what the developers had in mind. -
12-31-2017, 03:14 AMTridusIf you create an account there, you can claim your character and then mark yourself as hidden. At that point your character won't show up.Quote:
Originally Posted by jameseoakes
And yes, a third party tool shouldn't be required in end game. That's on SE for making enrages and faster killing a primary part of end game and not providing any reasonable first party method to handle those things. It's not the fault of someone who comes in and fills in the gaps. -
12-31-2017, 03:22 AMTridusThe only addon Blizzard directly tried to break that affected fights was Decursive... and yeah, that was pretty ridiculous. But it was also a response to fights in Molten Core that were "hit dispel 900 times", at a time when Blizzard didn't provide a raid UI at all. I don't know how they expected healers to cross dispel across 8 groups with no raid UI, but it was monumentally stupid. Fortunately they had an addon API and the playerbase solved the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slirith
Blizzard never broke damage meters and AFAIK they never broke Deadly Boss Mods. They certainly didn't break mods that provided raid frames and additional hotbars, since they didn't even bother to provide those things themselves in vanilla and only did it later because those addons were mandatory to have a functional raid group.
This is the same problem. If you want to have a progression static, parsers are not optional. The difference is that SE prefers to pretend the issue doesn't exist whereas Blizzard provides an addon API and explicitly decides what that API can and can't do, thereby letting the playerbase solve the problem in a relatively safe way. -
12-31-2017, 03:26 AMLazaruzThink of it this way. How many toxic assholes are not being toxic just because they're afraid someone will report them for parsing?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElHeggunte
-
12-31-2017, 03:29 AMHoodRatSo wait...are you saying that harassment will no longer be a punishable offense if SE adds an official parser?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
-
12-31-2017, 03:33 AMBourne_EndeavorAbout the same amount of toxic assholes who don't use parses yet have no qualms blaming the healer, tank or decrying how bad everyone else is yet when if you do happen to be running a parse, they're the ones lagging behind? If a person is willing to be an antagonistic, they don't need a parse. I know someone who simply says, "Does someone need to me link job guides?" That's passive aggressive at its finest. Hell, if you want to call someone out you just claim you've "watched their rotation" and voila. No mention of parses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
Once again, if GMs do their job and warn/ban toxic people. This wouldn't become an issue. -
12-31-2017, 03:33 AMHyoMinParkGot any proof of those heavy assumptions? How many of these silent players do you think just carry bad players because they don't want to risk getting reported/banned because someone's feelings got hurt, and they automatically take it out on the person who was supposedly parsing instead of looking at what they possibly did wrong (because, remember, bad players do no wrong; everyone else are the mean elitists for not carrying them or putting up with their poor play in farm parties).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
-
12-31-2017, 03:43 AMKakikoThat's a super wide brush you're using.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
-
12-31-2017, 03:48 AMOscuraWhat is with this argument that harassment will suddenly be allowed if parsers are one day condoned?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
The two don't go hand in hand, and people will still be banned for harassing others regardless whether or not parsing is "legal."
It's actually getting annoying how people are so desperate to push their narrative that it completely undermines actual harassment. -
12-31-2017, 03:48 AMJijifliHow many people can get away with doing almost nothing because daring to mention it risks you banned for parsing, whether you are or aren't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
There's more to toxic than just parsing someone... -
12-31-2017, 03:51 AMTridus^ This. We already have people tossing blame around randomly when a group fails and nobody has a parser. I fail to see how that's better than being able to see what's actually going on. If being toxic is a bannable offense, that'll still be true later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
I mean, it's not like parsing isn't happening now. It's just not happening on an equal footing between PC players who know how to do it, and PC players who don't know/PS4 players who can't. -
12-31-2017, 04:22 AMHyoMinParkHow so, though? Why hide your logs if you have nothing to hide?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakiko
This. Never forget when I first started playing back in 3.1 (so the darks days of BRD), and people kept telling me that I was trash for playing a trash job like BRD. That I should stop playing BRD because it was a horrible job and weak and I was trash for just loving it, cast bars and all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
Nothing about parsers or parsing in those comments. But they are just as toxic. -
12-31-2017, 04:35 AMStarRosieNot answering for Kakiko but to give a little idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
Privacy for one, yes I know MMO and all that but some level of privacy is allowed even in MMOs. I mean lodestone has options to hide your info or set it to friends only so why can't I with logs? But yeah, I enjoy having a mild bit of privacy and the ability to show this info to people I trust rather than leave it for any random Joe or Jill schmoe to search up. To be honest, if FFlogs had logs set to private by default rather than its current "You have to log into our site, link your character and claim it in order to set to private." system, I'd be a lot less...skeeved out by the whole thing but that is overall a different discussion.
Secondly, while I personally don't have much to hide, I don't like the idea of someone just being able to search up my character and attempt a "GOTCHA! YOU SUCK!" post or something. (No, not saying that's all people do with logs or anything just...it’s an example I guess?). But yeah, the whole "Someone being able to look up your character and see every raid, trial, and bit of content you've done." concept really creeps me out and I don't like that, so I hide that stuff to keep some form of privacy. If I want to discuss my overall performance or my track record with people, I want it to be with people I trust and know aren't going to be asses or condescending about it. (I know, I repeat myself a lot but it helps get the points across.)
Thirdly, cause it calms my anxiety down. I am a frickin' mess of anxiety, my mind will take tiny things and run them through every possible scenario it can till it finds the most frightening, crippling outcome and then constantly tell me "This is gonna happen if you join that PF. HEHEHEHEHE!" so having my logs and stuff set to private to have a thing to tell my mind "No it won't cause this is all set to private so they can't just look me up and do that." helps calm me down. Also if I'm kicked cause I won't share this stuff, then those aren't the types of players I wanna hang out with.
Fourth, because I can. Just because logs or the like are recorded by other people and posted without my consent or knowledge, does not mean it is suddenly everyone's right to scrutinize, critique, point out, or overall judge my entire career as a player. They are still MY LOGS and if I wanna hide them, then that is my right. This doesn't automatically make me a bad player it just means I'm exercising my right as a person, to a bit of privacy.
People hiding their logs doesn't instantly equate to bad/lazy/poor/shitty player who wants to be carried. Some people may have legitimate reasons to hide their logs or hide their info. So yeah, if you are saying "If you hide your logs, you are probably a bad player." Then yes, you are painting with a SUPER WIDE BRUSH!
I know someone is gonna come out and basically do a "You're totally wrong, lol." counter argument post and tell me how I'm stupid or something for wanting a little privacy and overall, I don't care. I was merely offering a few examples from my point of view for why someone might hide their logs and such and if you don't agree with them, that is fine but I'm not really gonna budge from this. I enjoy privacy and control over my own data and information. If that makes me a 'bad player', then ok, I'm fine with being a 'bad player'.
Anyways, have a lovely day and thank you for reading. -
12-31-2017, 04:36 AMSebazyWhy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Slirith
When I mess up as a healer and people don't get topped in-time or such, it's generally fairly obvious what happened even with chat logs alone, more so with a video recording. As such, I'll need to up my game, adjust and sort it out or get replaced for someone who can do it.
When a tank messes up and gets themselves one shot by a mechanic, fails their positioning and get's the raid cleaved, doesn't pick up an add in time or such, it's generally fairly obvious what happened even with chat logs alone, more so with a video recording. As such, they need to up their game, adjust and sort it out or get replaced for someone who can do it.
When a DPS messes up and fails a mechanic, it's typically fairly obvious what happened, however, when they fail the DPS check as a collective whole it's very difficult to tell what went wrong with chat logs alone and only marginally easier with a video replay (Unless you've got PoVs for each DPS in fairness).
What makes DPS such special snowflakes that they are above criticism and unaccountable to their standard of play in Savage content when neither Tanks nor Healers have anything like that luxury in their core role? Should I and 3 other 'support' players be obligated to endure banging our heads against a brick wall purely because we got unlucky enough to land too DPS that either couldn't be bothered or simply don't understand how to play their role to at least an average standard?
Like or not, the sad reality is that the current endgame is still very DPS centric, until SE step in and provide the tools end game orientated players need to gauge their own performance accurately and relevantly, other people will step in with tools of their own. -
12-31-2017, 04:39 AMKakikoIt was more in response to this:Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
Than the first, although in regards to the first:Quote:
Good farm groups will look someone up on FFLogs as they join parties to see what kind of player they're getting; if they see only grey logs (or no logs at all) they know they got someone hoping for a carry, which isn't something these groups want (and if its someone who hasn't cleared...well, they're really hoping for a carry in a farm party and deserve the kick and blacklist they're getting).
Not everyone who wants to set their logs to private does so because they have something to hide. I absolutely detest that excuse for any sort of discussion like this ("oh well, if you've nothing to hide then you don't have to worry"). As I mentioned in my earlier post, situations can arise where someone runs to the forums or to Reddit to remark about how this player or that player, even without saying names, was doing crap damage. Look at how this very thread started as proof. But, you only get one side of the story. Maybe that player people complain about thought they were doing the best they could? There's a lot of room for "what ifs" and assumptions when logs are made public and someone isn't performing as well as you think they should. That's what I don't care for. I know there have been times when my own numbers dipped because I was experiencing lag, and lately I think my keyboard needs to be replaced as my tab-target isn't working properly sometimes. So, if someone were to run off to to the forums or Reddit to make a thread about how the DPS in that instance was crap and they had to carry the little DPS, even if they didn't say my name - it's still there in the log with no explanation of why my numbers were terrible or why maybe my rotation was shoddy. It's not that I have something to HIDE, it's just that you're only ever going to get one side of the story.
My comment though was more in regards to the second part. Up until a few days ago, I didn't have FFlogs and as of right now, anything I upload isn't showing as there being any fight there anyway (because I can't figure out how to make it work properly, despite watching videos and reading different sites). So for all intents and purposes, it looks like I have nothing. So, if I join something even if it's something I am fairly confident in, by the quoted segment's logic, the group is going to "know" they got someone who wants a carry just because they can't see any of my logs. What about people who didn't know about FFLogs (like.. me.. up until like a week ago)? Or people who can't figure out how to make them work? There are also people out there who don't care about logs at all, and so haven't ever downloaded anything or looked into it because to them it's not a priority and they don't want to spend their time on it. Not everyone who doesn't have them are looking for a carry. Not everyone going into a farm group without a prior clear is looking for a carry (although it's kind of dumb to go into a farm if you're not at least somewhat aware of the mechanics). Or, again, they see my name in logs where I was having an off day, or any other issue, and decide I "deserve" a blacklist (according to the quoted post's logic).
The use of definites is what makes it a wide brush. Yes, maybe some people without logs hope for a carry. Maybe some people without a clear are hoping for a carry. But that doesn't include everyone and it just rubbed me the wrong way. -
12-31-2017, 04:50 AMDeceptus
Anytime a game has a quantifiable DPS check that must be made there simply needs to be a way to check dps numbers.
That's the only way you're ever going to be able to see who is pulling their weight and who is slacking. -
12-31-2017, 04:51 AMPArcherProblem is, its an absolutely tiny minority that can clear current content fine but has nothing on FFLogs. I wait a few hours after running anything now because its almost a guarantee that someone else is uploading the runsQuote:
Originally Posted by Kakiko
I've PFed farm parties a lot (though not as much recently because the quality of players right now is abysmal. Most good players are on break til 4.2 or have everything they want) and yeah, people with no logs are almost always dragging the party down. Its better to just boot them and get someone who has proof they can farm than take the chance and spend time wiping (or worse, going in and seeing the newbie bonus pop up). -
12-31-2017, 04:57 AMKaethraThey didn't complete the encounter, not until 3 DPS were kicked from the group. Which 'supposedly' was a rules violation according to SE. That's why its weird. Even though booting the DPS and getting better ones could potentially make the run a success.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baalfrog
If a tank dies to a tank buster because they didn't use a CD, they can be booted for it. No violation of any rules. If a DPS does too little damage and you use a parser to determine that (since its the only way to do so), and boot them for doing too little. Despite that being just as important and vital as a tank using a CD, its considered 'harassment'.
Of course I use quotes because its still hearsay to me, I've never seen an instance of someone being actioned for this personally. -
12-31-2017, 04:59 AMKakikoThen, I'm in the minority. I get that you want parties that can clear and where everyone pulls their weight. I just take issue with the generalization that because someone doesn't have FFLogs means that person is looking for a carry. It's not true 100% of the time. I don't know, I guess it's just different expectations from the game. To me, it sounds extremely elitist that someone has to have a third party item as "proof" or they "deserve" a blacklist.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
-
12-31-2017, 05:00 AMPArcherAs long as nothing is said in chat about the parse when kicking, there's nothing that can be reported. GMs have said you can boot someone for differing playstyles (so if they say, "this isn't working out, we need to find other people" its perfectly fine to kick)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaethra
-
12-31-2017, 05:03 AMPArcherThere is nothing elitist for expecting people joining a farm party to be able to pull their weight. Being able to check that someone can perform at a basic competency saves time and makes things more efficient.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakiko
EDIT: And yes, if you join a farm looking to be carried, you do deserve the kick and blacklist (especially if you haven't cleared yet). Its disrespectful to those who have put in the time and effort to get things on farm and they can definitely take steps to avoid having to deal with a player like that. -
12-31-2017, 05:08 AMKakikoI don't disagree that having people in a farm party who can pull their weight and competently complete the content isn't elitist. That wasn't even what I was calling elitist in my post you quoted. However, my counter to you would then be: why not join a static, or an fc, or a group of friends and farm, rather than rely on PF which can bring you people you find less desirable and not up to your standards (standards which are subjective to every player).Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
-
12-31-2017, 05:08 AMHyoMinPark
@Kakiko -- I appreciate the full response and the clarification. But I will say that the argument still holds as somewhat valid; if you aren't ashamed of your logs, why hide them at all? Here's why I think that:
Any person worth their salt who goes through logs will easily separate poor play from shoddy circumstances. I will use my V3S clear as an example--my overall DPS was abysmal, but I died three times. I was clipped twice by two people's Folio's (neither were my fault--one was the other BRD who ran into my same Library tile I had already been standing in, and did not move to adjust so I tried to scramble the last minute and couldn't make it; second was a tank and they actually ended up killing my friend on SAM, too later on--no big deal, we had a laugh about that one), and the third death was me screwing up Mindjack reapers because I got greedy (and because I will openly admit that I am awful at that mechanic). The comp also did not have a DRG, so as a BRD, I lose 300-400 DPS right there (it was actually double BRD, SAM, and I think NIN was the other DPS; maybe RDM, I would have to double-check). Anyone looking at that grey would see "Well, 3 deaths, two were clips from Folio, one they messed up, no DRG, definitely doesn't have anywhere near BiS for BRD, so that's why their damage was low". It wasn't even 3k.
Same thing for poor performers. I once had a MNK who used the following rotation: Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Rockbreaker. Every time. In V2S. And it was a farm group. Someone analyzing those logs can see: "Well, their damage is awful because they are using an AOE rotation on a single target and ignoring their other skills". Analysis of logs is key, and I say this the anyone who says people judge based off of just the percentile alone--there's more to it than just that ranking. Hence why you dig deeper. You can't do that if someone hides them; and when people do that, everyone automatically assumes they have something to hide, so it doesn't work out in their favor, in the end.
More research can also be done, such as looking at a player's gear. That's why I said OP should be pulling more than 3,500-4,000 DPS on a MCH. Because their MCH is 340--may not be BiS because no Genji body or Genji weapon, but the secondaries aren't weighed as much right now to cause a 1,000 DPS discrepancy.
Bottom line (because I feel like I'm rambling) is people have to dig deeper into those runs to see WHY damage was so low. Instead of just basing it off of a 19 median. Analyze the logs; look at the rotation, look at their gear, look at the comp (especially important for BRD/MCH because of their reliance on a DRG), and then make a judgement. However, I know that a lot of people don't dig deeper but take the number at face value.
As for the thread, it told both sides because of the log. If no one had the log to reference, we have just the OP's side, which blames the WAR for his supposed elitism, but mentions nothing about how the WAR was only being outDPS'd by a NIN who died once, and not a SAM, RDM, or MCH that also only died once (well, SAM died twice). It opens up for more discussion, because clearly there is room for improvement on the part of all three of those DPS. With no log, we only have that accursed WAR and their parser elitism.
But these are just my opinions. -
12-31-2017, 05:13 AMJijifliBecause there aren't 7 people in my FC that are on who want to go farm it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakiko
Because I don't have 7 friends on that want to go out and farm it.
Maybe the static isn't on for the farm because it's not schedule'd. -
12-31-2017, 05:31 AMBaalfrogThey did, the log in question has a kill in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaethra
Also kicking people cause they are not good enough for your standards and such is not a rules violation, it falls under the "different playstyle" and is perfectly fine with the GMs. Like if im in a dungeon with 3 friends, and the rando we get is Timmy the Icemage, we are in the right to kick them if they don't stop being like that after being told to stop. That said, you don't need to say anything, but since GMs check the chat logs, you might want to say something as to why they are being kicked. -
12-31-2017, 05:32 AMPArcherEven Yoshi-P has said that you can use parsers; just do not harass people with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
-
12-31-2017, 05:32 AMHyoMinParkWhat would you consider a MNK in a V2S farm that uses Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Rockbreaker, then? Bad player or "not 100% optimized"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
You seem to miss the point that a lot of people who parse do not demand 95th percentile play outside of anything but their own statics (if they are part of a hardcore static). You also missed the point that toxicity is not exclusive to parsing. -
12-31-2017, 05:37 AMLazaruzI would advise you to read that last part of my post againQuote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
SE's just allowing it because they know damn well they cant stop everyone, instead only threatening to drop the hammer if you act like an asshole with the information you collect through it
a.k.a you can parse. But harass people with the numbers and SE will take action
If you cant argue without reaching for the extremes, I'm gonna end this discussion right hereQuote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
-
12-31-2017, 05:38 AMJijifliOkay hold up here. You're saying we should not allow built in support Parsing, because there's a CHANCE someone will abuse it? Allow me to take this to the extreme then. Remove emotes, people can abuse them to flood your chat or harass you (Lala's can pat your butts/breasts.) Remove chat, there's a chance I can say something really really mean in it to someone, or someone could tell another to do suicide. Remove Materia, someone might get mad my bard has a Direct Hit instead of a Crit in 1 slot and harass me. Remove every attack that doesn't need a target, people can spam it and annoy another player. Remove the ability to name your character, someone might put a mean word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
Now you might respond with, "But you're taking that too far," but I'm not. All of these cases, you can fix the PERSON being the problem with reporting. So why is Parsing different? If your scared people might be mean with it in chat, removing chat would do the same thing, but you wouldn't like that because it removes the positives, right? Same for people that parse. They can take the positives. Rotation improving. Figuring out what people are doing to help others. Knowing who's doing level 45 damage in SHINRYU EX of all places and harming the run.
Tl;dr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
-
12-31-2017, 05:45 AMHyoMinParkNot an extreme; that is something I have actually seen. But how about these examples:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
--A BRD that never uses Tactician or Refresh, even when asked by the healers for MP
--A BLM that never uses anything above a level 50 or 60 rotation
--An "Ice Mage"
--A DRG that won't use Heavy Thrust, or their Chaos Thrust combo
--A MNK that doesn't use Fists of Fire
--A SAM who doesn't manage Shifu or Jinpu buffs
--A RDM that refuses to help Raise
--A SMN that refuses to help Raise
--A SMN that never uses their DoTs, or has their pets on Sic
--A tank that won't use proper mitigation; ever
--A tank that cannot hold aggro while in their tank stance
--A healer that is careless with their MP, be it from overhealing or from too much DPSing
--A healer that won't heal
"Bad player" or "not 100% optimized"?
Your arguments are all about the potential for abuse. Anything and everything has a potential for abuse. Vote Kick features, Party Finder restrictions, Vote Abandon features. They can all be abused. Does that mean they should also be removed because the potential for abuse exists?
I reiterate again: people who parse, the majority do not expect 95th percentile play from people that aren't part of their hardcore static (if they are in one). They expect people to pull their weight, but they do not expect perfection. Perfection is unobtainable. And, again, toxiticty exists in everything; it isn't exclusive to parsers. -
12-31-2017, 05:47 AMHoodRatFflogs doesn't automatically record everything you do, it has to be uploaded. So if "every raid, trial, and bit of content you've done" is uploaded, I'd say it's safe to assume you're the one uploading it. And I don't understand why you would upload everything you do if you don't like the idea of people seeing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by StarRosie
Fflogs shows a ton of information. People can see what abilities you used and in what order, how many times you used them, what buffs/debuffs you had, how long you spent standing idle, how many times you died, what you died to, when you died, and even how you moved around during the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakiko
Don't flatter yourself, as someone said earlier, people don't go around intentionally uploading parses to make people look bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazaruz
-
12-31-2017, 05:52 AMjameseoakesThose are some pretty big assumptions there and an unnecessarily aggressive post either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher