SCH adlo and succor

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Originally Posted by Dregenfox

Indom + Succor = 800 pot for 2280 mana + 1 GCD's (plus whatever fairy gives you)

Medica + assize + medica = 900 pot for 3360 mana + 2 GCD's

Which one would you honestly rather prefer?

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Assize completely negates the cost of the 1st medica and does 300 potency damage to boot, so in actuality

Indom + Succor for 800 potency for 2280 + 1 GCD (plus fairy)
Medica + Assize + Medica = 900 potency + 300 damage for 1680 MP +2 GCD

I prefer that one that is actually good aka White mage.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

A) People are still learning the class....
B) Not everyone plays the same way....
C) Fairy abilities are clunky....

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Scholar really doesn't play that much differently , it's mainly been reeled-in from it's overpowered MP management, and it's free healing when it was always clearly #1 in that area among all healers since the job ever came out. That was also why minimum PIE builds were always considered best-in-slot. Making a relic? Absolutely no PIE in that weapon. The job could get away with practically almost no gear having PIE in Creator Savage, and still put up powerful HPS and DPS provided your raid parties were not error-prone. So even not being the slightest bit optimal, you'd get away with it or just add PIE somewhere for traps/messy parties. Aetherflow going from 20% to 10% now makes a little more aware of using the correct skills for the situation. But like some posters have also eluded to, you only need enough MP to "always be casting". I've had to train my bards previously that I didn't need mana song even when it looked like I'm super low of MP.

Practically going back to ARR it was Embrace/Whispering Dawn doing all the dungeon healing. Double/triple pulling a heavy dungeon pack in 4.0 in a 310 sync dungeon you'll have to play it using all your skills, but they gave us Fey Union which is really super-sayan for even the heaviest dungeon pulls and constant tank raid damage in the game. Which you didn't mention, and requires only aggressive Aetherflow build-up. It's once again, free. Oh you can pop Rouse+Whispering Dawn to get another tank regen before you pop Miss Super Sayan tether. That's two powerful regens, and now you got more Aetherflow in-case they dip into emergency range while you DPS down the trash. Easy game.

There are a few threads in this forum to explain and help force the fairy to stop what she is doing to do things like Whispering Dawn. Even Sustain had a purpose because she would immediately stop healing someone to heal herself. Most of the time that wasn't necessary as a Scholar because the most she probably had was a tank cleave and she lived through it without any more damage coming. But to say clunky fairy is about akin to saying Benediction going off on a dead player. It hasn't stopped anyone from playing pet jobs.

SCH don't need MP management, they had aether flow.

They trade their main ressource for a more restrictive but more powerful secondary one. It's not being OP, it's something that just plain work. Weak on demand spells vs stronger three every minute abilities. And for that, they didn't need piety and it was fine. They had their own BiS, their own playstyle.
What overpowered could even mean, seriously ? Did people make team of 8 SCH of slaughtered the game ? No, they didn't. SCH/AST was more optimised for standard composition fast run of fght you already now. That's it.

Was SCH mandatory to the game ? No it wasn't. Was bringing SCH to a party made the content significantly easier ? No it didn't. Every thing else is on the player base mentality.

Can't you get a clue about the fact that some people would kick WHM from parties for the exact reason you kick posting on that thread pop new way to spite on other SCH.
Just give it rest, you're not even making any sense.

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Originally Posted by technole

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The difference between HW SCH and SB SCH is that SCH was nerfed on several fronts. Aetherflow being cut in half, the increase in cost to Adlo and Succor, and the fairy potency nerf are all factors that come into play here. As you just said, Embrace/Whispering Dawn was doing all the healing back in the day but as of now, that is NOT the case. You cannot let the fairy do everything and actually have to be more attentive of your playstyle, be more mindful of you MP, etc or else things will go south fast. I didn't mention any fairy ability, Fey Union included, because it has a long wind up time and needs to be built up to be used. It's clunky to use, which is the general point of my 3rd point. Not saying it's stopping people from playing pet classes, I'm saying it's stopping them from playing them EFFECTIVELY.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Assize completely negates the cost of the 1st medica and does 300 potency damage to boot, so in actuality

Indom + Succor for 800 potency for 2280 + 1 GCD (plus fairy)
Medica + Assize + Medica = 900 potency + 300 damage for 1680 MP +2 GCD

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Umm....you don't even know how the healers work.

The mp regain for SCH is on Aetherflow, while it's on assize for WHM. SCH has already gained that mana earlier beforehand.

If you really insist on taking our 10% mana regen skills into account -

Indom + Succor for 800 potency for 600 MP + 1 GCD (plus fairy)
Medica + Assize + Medica = 900 potency + 300 damage for 1680 MP +2 GCD

On top of that, WHM is pressured to use Assize on CD or lose mp, which may or may not conincide with when the party actually needs Assize for healing, while SCH gets aetherflow every 30-45s and can use it without penalty while saving indom for greatest impact.

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Originally Posted by technole

Double/triple pulling a heavy dungeon pack in 4.0 in a 310 sync dungeon you'll have to play it using all your skills, but they gave us Fey Union which is really super-sayan for even the heaviest dungeon pulls and constant tank raid damage in the game. Which you didn't mention, and requires only aggressive Aetherflow build-up. It's once again, free. Oh you can pop Rouse+Whispering Dawn to get another tank regen before you pop Miss Super Sayan tether. That's two powerful regens, and now you got more Aetherflow in-case they dip into emergency range while you DPS down the trash. Easy game.

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So if you are overgeared it works.

Yet, not everyone is overgeared, and classes shouldn't be built needing to be overgeared in mind.

I got a late start on SB so I'm only about i300 atm. Just using Whispering Dawn, Tether, and Aetherflow skills is definitely not enough to keep the tank alive during big pulls. Some Aldo spam is required.

And this is kind of the point. Scholar is fine so long as the healing requirements the job needs to do falls within their threshold of free healing. Scholar's free healing threshold is definitely a ton higher than every other healer (largely because of Whispering Dawn). Once you need to heal more than your free healing provides though it gets messy. In raids this is covered because the other healer covers that gap. There are times though that the Scholar himself needs to heal more than his free healing provides (usually due to bad players), and when this happens Scholar becomes trash tier where as the other 2 healers would be absolutely fine in the same spot.

Should Scholar's MP healing be as efficient as the other 2 classes? Of course not. I understand that because of how much free healing scholar has that their MP efficiency should be lower than the other two...but not by THIS much. I mean 50% higher costs, lower MP regen, and lower potency than White Mage? The difference in free healing between the jobs isn't THAT big (it's mainly whispering dawn, everything else Scholar has there's an equivalent).

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Originally Posted by Dregenfox

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I'm not taking anything into account other than what was provided in your example, which was heavily bias towards SCH. Assize is outlined in your example and the MP return of it should be taken into consideration because of it, whereas Aetherflow could have been used prior to the fight and could result in 0 MP return as a result; we don't know because it's not mentioned in the example at all.

Assize and Aetherflow need to be kept on CD for the EXACT same reason (you lose MP if you don't) so this is a strawman argument.

Please don't insult my intelligence.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I'm not taking anything into account other than what was provided in your example, which was heavily bias towards SCH. Assize is outlined in your example and the MP return of it should be taken into consideration because of it, whereas Aetherflow could have been used prior to the fight and could result in 0 MP return as a result; we don't know because it's not mentioned in the example at all.

Assize and Aetherflow need to be kept on CD for the EXACT same reason (you lose MP if you don't) so this is a strawman argument.

Please don't insult my intelligence.

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Still seems like you're not getting it...Indom for SCH requires a stack of Aetherflow, which can only be gained by using the skill Aetherflow (only exception is dissipation). The 10% mana part is tacked onto both classes and is required to use either Assize or Indom. Exactly when that mana gain happens doesn't really matter.

The SCH loses nothing by keeping AF on cooldown because he can E-drain any remaining stacks and be back at 3 stacks again with no impact on indom usage. For a WHM to come close to matching that they need 3x lilies and need to use Assize the moment it comes off CD, which may not be the moment your party needs the aoe healing.

This is why it doesn't make sense to factor in the mana gain. It's completely arbitrary and can be discussed in favor of this or that situation forever.

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Originally Posted by Dregenfox

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Even if we discount the MP return, Assize still does more upfront damage than SCH can dish out in 1 GCD so regardless of the situation, WHM would still pull ahead but we've derailed the thread long enough so I say we just agree to disagree.

I get a good chuckle out of Scholars claiming the fairy just "feels so worthless and weak". It's so wimpy that it's only the highest potency regen tick in the entire game (Fey Union notwithstanding), and that's including the pet tax. And the Heavensward and Stormblood nerfs.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

So if you are overgeared it works..."SCH is trash tier if they have to manually heal"

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Your argument now adds up to. 'I just reached i300 SCH, these dungeons are too hard to heal big pulls with SCH skills, I have to spam Adlo, it costs too much, please cut in half'.

No one was even i300 when we all got to Ala Mhigo let alone Susano Extreme, every normal pull is fine even with the free i290 AF gear. Now with 4.06 Excog potency you should be using that more liberally even at <50% HP tanks, and even the Fey Union buff is even better because 15y gives tanks more room to wiggle around AoEs before coming disconnected. So it's even easier now.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

I get a good chuckle out of Scholars claiming the fairy just "feels so worthless and weak". It's so wimpy that it's only the highest potency regen tick in the entire game (Fey Union notwithstanding), and that's including the pet tax. And the Heavensward and Stormblood nerfs.

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Shhh, that just makes too much sense. The more we become reasonable the less chance they buff the job!

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

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Because MP management isn't the matter yet every one still come back to hit because "bad healers".

I don't think one single second that someone in the developpement team of this game actually though "we have to increase succor cost to make player think before that cast it", because to get to that conclusion you have to look what succor actualy does to noticce it doesn't do much. Its something that have to do with preventing damage vs healing it, and what succor preventing is generally not as high as raw numbers makes it look. But if there's no reason not to cast it if you though it would made raid healing easier and you're not dead set on doing much DPS possible, why not. It feels rewarding and isn't unfair to other healers, while extremly rarely being mandatory. And I'm not specially talking about top 5% savage raid environement, but basically any 8-players content. It's effect wasn't good enough already punishing in cas of abuse, there was no reason to adress it. The new SCH "MP management" doesn't exist, every just press the new mana boutton whenever its off CD. It's the exact opposite of management.
It even makes the game go backward in a weird way : if its alway on CD, it means that MP starvation only exist to make you push the mana boutton. And now one care about that. Especially SCH that was already doing real ressource management before, pressing that boutton every 2 minutes is just unneeded noise. I'm not sure how you could feel that misplaced arrogance about even doing it. Where's the management when there's only one obvious good solution ?

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I get a good chuckle out of Scholars claiming the fairy just "feels so worthless and weak". It's so wimpy that it's only the highest potency regen tick in the entire game (Fey Union notwithstanding), and that's including the pet tax. And the Heavensward and Stormblood nerfs.

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Is that a joke ?

It is still, again, the same thing over and over. Either your alone on a 4-man and that stronger fairy tick compensate global weaker hardcast spells. Or you're in 8-man and both tick cummulate. What you're saying is not less stupid, it's not like the game is a DoT contest or whatever. Those belong to different character playing different ways.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

So basically Scholar doesn't have any MP issues when they don't use their MP to heal

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Lol I find that this is what some people are basically saying. "Use your Aetherflow stacks for healing instead of mana and you will have more mana" yea that would be possible if Aetherflow gave 12 stacks instead of just 3. But we don't so we have to use standard healing spells a lot anyway. You can to some degree use Aetherflow heals in place of those that cost mana as a form of mana management but Aetherflow is tied to some of sch's most important cds. Some fights demand that you save stacks for those cds to be able to deal with certain mechanics, instead of burning them all with Lustrates in place of Aldo or Physick for the sole purpose of conserving mana.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

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Healing requirement is really low on dungeon and there's a co healer in raid.
So yeah, indo ad whispering down end up being your most used tools. Even if you really want to help afterward, outside of poping CD succor efficiency gest halved after the first one so there's nothing you can reasonnably do as SCH in situatio where high heals are needed.

But then, you can physick heals the tank if you think that's what is needed at the moment. It's not optimized way of using the job but that don't makes it bad if you're not aiming for high end performance, everything goes right and the boss falls then it's fine.

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Originally Posted by Vyriah

Healing requirement is really low on dungeon and there's a co healer in raid.

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And? How does this change that savage and ex content typically has a lot of healing to do? You can't always heavily rely on Aetherflow to replace mana based healing in savage/ex. Unless you feel like frequently throwing yourself into the possibility of having nothing powerful to cast when a deadly mechanic happens, which in some cases would essentially doom the party to wipe.

Never mind how unfair it is to force the other healer to work harder because your so-called mana management makes you ill-equipped to deal with mechanics that demand a lot of healing and/or mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

And? How does this change that savage and ex content typically has a lot of healing to do? You can't always heavily rely on Aetherflow to replace mana based healing in savage/ex. Unless you feel like frequently throwing yourself into the possibility of having nothing powerful to cast when a deadly mechanic happens, which in some cases would essentially doom the party to wipe.

Never mind how unfair it is to force the other healer to work harder because your so-called mana management makes you ill-equipped to deal with mechanics that demand a lot of healing and/or mitigation.

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I'm staying within 80-90% of my WHM's healing in everything up to o3s. IDK yet about o4s but I suspect it would be similar.

I cast maybe 20-21 succors total in that fight. I think I only adlo like 2-3 times, during dragon add and ninjas. The rest of the healing is purely fairy/dissipation/Aetherflow.

It's really not necessary for SCH to hardcast that many heals and still keep up with healing. I also get like 25% overheal compared to WHM's 35% usually, so we're not really that far off.

If you're having to spam Adlo/Succor in the fight it really just means your pt is failing too many mechanics. o2s fight itself is like 11-12 minutes long, and with dissipation spam I'll get like 18-20 AF off which is 50+ lustrates/indoms.

The thing with SCH is that they have just enough AF to cover a fight's mechanics, and anything more forces the SCH to start hardcasting adlos. So SCH will look good or bad depending on their party. A WHM can easily get 10000+ raw HPS in a fight but what is the point? Your group is probably meeting enrage with those numbers.

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Originally Posted by technole

Your argument now adds up to. 'I just reached i300 SCH, these dungeons are too hard to heal big pulls with SCH skills, I have to spam Adlo, it costs too much, please cut in half'.

No one was even i300 when we all got to Ala Mhigo let alone Susano Extreme, every normal pull is fine even with the free i290 AF gear. Now with 4.06 Excog potency you should be using that more liberally even at <50% HP tanks, and even the Fey Union buff is even better because 15y gives tanks more room to wiggle around AoEs before coming disconnected. So it's even easier now.

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1) I haven't just hit i300. I've been sitting on it for a while. I've been a bit slow picking up new gear even though I have the currency for it, but I've still been doing the dungeons so I have a pretty good gauge at how they feel as an i300 Scholar. (Also of course normal pulls are fine. No one does normal pulls though, and the giant pulls is where the issue is. I can handle most of them, but I know every other healer isn't needing to call for an MP break before entering the boss room because you are empty and everything is on CD)

2) Missed the point entirely. I was saying that because you are i320 (and overgeared for the dungeons) that means your free healing threshold is good enough to heal through big pulls meaning that you don;t have to cast MP heals. At i300 which is still overgearing it slightly, but not much, the free healing threshold isn't enough to heal all the damage that the tank takes and the spell MP issue is magnified.

The point was pretty much the jest I made earlier. Scholar doesn't have any MP issues as long as they don't have to spend their MP to heal. If a scholar has to use his MP to heal the spells are too expensive and it's far too easy to OOM atm. This may not affect max ilvl scholars in savage atm, but it certainly affects those that are less than max ilvl, and it could easily kick scholars out of groups if future savage content requires more healing than 1 healer can handle, the moment a fight requires enough healing where the scholar needs to dip into his MP pool more often then now is the moment it'll be kicked for Ast.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

And? How does this change that savage and ex content typically has a lot of healing to do? You can't always heavily rely on Aetherflow to replace mana based healing in savage/ex. Unless you feel like frequently throwing yourself into the possibility of having nothing powerful to cast when a deadly mechanic happens, which in some cases would essentially doom the party to wipe.

Never mind how unfair it is to force the other healer to work harder because your so-called mana management makes you ill-equipped to deal with mechanics that demand a lot of healing and/or mitigation.

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I'm not sure about the question.

If you're playing SCH you have no on-demand AoE heal outside of succor, wich would prevent a wipe only if the impending doom is within that 150 potency shield (or 180, but we're already talking about CD usage then). You can't perform it well anyway.
That's why you have to be carefull about other tools like fey covenant or deployement tactics. Sacred soil is in a weird spot now that cleric stance is no more as it's hard to see when it'll be needed and when it's not, indo is more beneficial to your co-healer.

Unfair or not, you can't do what you can't do. It's a bit confusing since the job is currently in a very strange spot these succor won't help much even though you can cast them if you thing that's what the party need.

The more I look into the job, the more it looks like the job minor flaws in design are now in the front :
- ARR version is really clear : you reduce damage before, WHM heals after. This is simple and solid, its works perfectly. I'm not sure about people talking about SCH being OP "since its release" as both healer did what they had to do.
- HW went less in the mitigation healer and gave more cooldown. This time, it was working because skill you can use in cleric stance (fairy skills, damage reductions) on those you have to stance dance for (anything that heals). Again, it's still clear enough : use the first ones until you need to go for the new ones, with stronger option being more and more restrictive.

There's some irks in those, like shields being a bonus that was often not needed. But then, you could still chose to use them for safety purpose and everything was fine. But you didn't have to pause and just start thinking about the exact difference between preventing a damage and healing it. Your job was doing the former, and then got the possibility to do the later better if needed. That's something you can get in video game terms, in MMO terms and in FF XIV terms.

But now, what's the exact difference between sacred soil, succor, emergency tactics, deployement tactics, indo and whispering dawn ? Mostly, in thing like this better when everyone is spread, this is better when no one is taking damage for 21sec, this as no real use if there's no risk of player losing more than 100% of their HP in the next 30 sec, etc. And none of these have with is SCH supposed to do as clear as I could formulate it earlier. Absolutly everything about all this is emergent, none is designed.
They're powerful tools, but they're scatered tools, they don't belong to a single coherent and complet job.

And what I'm not saying here is that player are stupid or bad for not getting this. Look at how incredible friend that speak like being better than everyone else in this thread and say without any hesitation than fey union is what you need in dungeon. That's great and all, but actually rouse + whispering dawn will always be better. It have arround the same potency due to fairy still healing during whispering dawn but less uptime due fairy gauge charging per eather flow stacks used. It can be circunvalent by charging the gauge before entering the dungeon but it's a needlessly sophistaced answer just in order lock embrace, fey illumination and fey convenant that can bring more flexibility to a pool.
And there, the new manual for the good SCH. Wich still tells nothing about what kinf of healer is SCH who have now the HoT that barely do what SCH didn't already do. Get the gauge out and make it a buff that'll make fairy focus that target with slightly stronger spells for 30 sec on 2 minute CD, and you get about the same result. Gauge gimmick is here because no one knows what SCH is supposed to be anymore.

The SCH state is best illustrated by dissipassion. The skill do 3 things : getting your eather stacks full, giving you a 20% healing spell power increase and dismissing you fairy. But then, your abilitie used wiht the stacks aren't affect by the spell buff and it isn't added to the fairy gauge.
So players are using it to get more enrgy drain. Something that was quite obviously not made for.

What if we made Emergency tactics either a toggle or have aldo and succor reduce its CD by a couple of sec for each use.

What if we had deployment tactics no longer spread aldo and eye. It would instead for the next "x" cast of aldo and succor has those potency increased by "y". MP cost for "z" seconds is reduced by 50%

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Originally Posted by Dregenfox

It's really not necessary for SCH to hardcast that many heals and still keep up with healing. I also get like 25% overheal compared to WHM's 35% usually, so we're not really that far off.

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Maybe it's because I primarily do pugging so I can't account for the skill of the other healer as well as some other party members, but if I abstained from hardcasting a lot in ex/savage we would die. Like literally forget about even getting the boss to 50% never mind killing it.

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Originally Posted by Vyriah

Unfair or not, you can't do what you can't do.

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You're missing the point. The point I'm making is that if you use the Aetherflow mechanic for more than just mana management you can do more with sch. Such as on demand ogcd burst healing, which is sometimes exactly what the party needs. Emergency tactics is handy but it takes .5 seconds for the game to realise you have clicked it and unless you swiftcast you also have to add in casting time. Obviously you can hardcast in advance if you know when the damage is going to hit, but sometimes you need to fit as much healing as you can in the few gcds you have to work with for a particular mechanic and the Aetherflow heals can be excellent for that.

And the other point I'm making is it's unfair on the other healer to force them to work harder if you can find the room to use Aetherflow for more than just mana management but choose not to. Our role is called healer, not mana hoarder.

Despite the significant drop in mana efficiency sch has gotten from HW to SB, I can still make it work and unless I have to burn loads of mana on ressing I still have enough mana to heal properly without using Aetherflow stacks primarily for mana management. It's just a bit disheartening to see whms consistently on very high mana even though they're certainly not slacking at all ;)

I think probably the best way to handle the Fey Gauge is to rename it to the Overflow Gauge, have it working the way it currently is and then rework Aetherpact. What it would do is grant the Fairy a massive buff to its abilities, and grant it access to the opposite fairy's abilities. From there the fairy can use its new-found power to free up the scholar to do whatever. This is all sounding pretty OP but it would give scholar an absolutely explosive ability once per pull. It would be scholars version of Hallowed Ground, on a 10 minute cooldown. It would likely last from 30 to a full minute.

I rly don't get it why ppl are so mad at SCH. SCH is super strong atm, if just look at aspected bene vs adlo, ofc aspected will win bc SCH its not just adlo. Excog is an awesome mitigation tool, the sheer power of indom is incredible and you pretty much are rdy for any situation in raid. Yes SCH have become a bit more complex to play with those mana costs but if you are spamming adlo/succor and got low on mana then the problem is you. Ppl seem to forgot about the launch of HW where the fairy was super weak as it is now, yea I know -50 potency on embrace can be felt but the overall healing of the fairy will be lower in this stage of the game as it was in early gordias.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

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I'm not sure why you're quoting me, I don't think MP management on SCH is even a thing. You just use lucid dreaming every two minute and bye bye MP management.

Using eather flow stack for healing is exactly what everyone is talking about. By "on demand healig", I'm talking about anything that won't have limited use on limited time, so the thing aren't on CD or eatherflow stacks. Wich means physicks, addlo, succor and embrace. The help you can provided with those is limited anyway, so using the rest of your kit isn't MP management, it's just using your more potent option most of the time. And will result in less mana loss overall.
I'm pretty sure we're saying the same thing, maybe typos and broken english makes it sound different by I think SCH is pretty much played the way you describe, with more or less focus on DPS depending of what you want for your party.

I'm not that person who is gonna tell you that's not how you do thing. Unless you're using succor every mechanic, then that's not how you do thing.

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Originally Posted by Sighearth

I rly don't get it why ppl are so mad at SCH. SCH is super strong atm, if just look at aspected bene vs adlo, ofc aspected will win bc SCH its not just adlo. Excog is an awesome mitigation tool, the sheer power of indom is incredible and you pretty much are rdy for any situation in raid. Yes SCH have become a bit more complex to play with those mana costs but if you are spamming adlo/succor and got low on mana then the problem is you. Ppl seem to forgot about the launch of HW where the fairy was super weak as it is now, yea I know -50 potency on embrace can be felt but the overall healing of the fairy will be lower in this stage of the game as it was in early gordias.

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Did you even read those post before ? Or did you see a lot of words and though "oh ! They are angry, they must be spamming addlo and being out of mana ! I'm sure no one said that yet !"

Those two super strong spell you're mentioning were super ninja buffed in the first few patch of SB, so yeah, they're stupid powerful. Don't makes the job most complex because it makes indo being the right everytime its up. It's even better than lustrate at single target healing if there's no AoE damage in the next 30sec, this more OP than absolutly all what SCH could do before as it doesn't even lower your DPS to use it.
And Exco isn't mitigation, if the blow kills the tank, it won't trigger. It's an auto trigger essential dignity that's actually weaker most of the time, or a stronger lustrate for the same cost. There's really few use of this ability currently. And it's even easier to use than addlo was in HW.

But then again "SCH is strong because of the bads healer".
You just have to look, they all say it. That's the real tell that SCH is broken.

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And Exco isn't mitigation, if the blow kills the tank, it won't trigger. It's an auto trigger essential dignity that's actually weaker most of the time, or a stronger lustrate for the same cost. There's really few use of this ability currently. And it's even easier to use than addlo was in HW.

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I usually use Excog as more of a an "HQ Lustrate" for when party members fall below 50%, rather than as a "safety net", since it triggers instantly if the player is already under 50%. What would be HOT is if we could spread it with Deployment Tactics (and spread Chain Strategem with Bane). AoE 800 potency heal would be broken I guess for recovering from things like Photon/Charybdis though...

Yeah, Excog is great, it's mainly to cover auto-attack damage after a tank buster. Maybe they barely mitigate and now are down to critical health, well that Excog proc will save them from dying on the next auto. But if you have someone at <50% HP, Excog should be used over Lustrate. Also if you raise someone and need quick top-up, use Excog over Lustrate. Many uses in pinch situations.

Astro ED is akin to about 1k potency at critical health so it's almost as-good, but the fact Excog is Aetherflow you want to use it liberally if you can make it proc.

It's good the way it is now, because most of our complaints at 4.0 launch was that it wasn't enough of a benefit over Lustrate potency-wise, and you'd run into crappy Paladins using Clemency too much because they are too afraid of seeing low HP, and then overhealing themselves causing the proc and Aetherflow to be wasted. Now that's changed too.

I wish the heal on Adlo was just removed entirely. Turn the spell into a flat 450p shield, and have ET Adlo heal for 300p when the shield expires. Nine times out of ten I just want to mitigate damage before it lands and the heal is fluff.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

@CreinCrein Play whm and ast at the same lvl and you'll truly understand how abysmal sch mana efficiency is right now.

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Psst, I suspect Crein has a significantly better understanding of SCH than you do sir =(

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Psst, I suspect Crein has a significantly better understanding of SCH than you do sir =(

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Or maybe I'm better at whm than at sch :P