A big Problem that MAY come up with Stormblood...

ha tank main will play them all , but tanks first

I think they are going to add mounts as bonuses to keep people tanking.

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Originally Posted by AlexSag

I think they are going to add mounts as bonuses to keep people tanking.

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Yay, more coil farming.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Yoshi did say during the live letter that skill cooldown after changing jobs outside of sanctuaries would be gone. Don't think they specified it more closely than that general statement.

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Oh, awesome! I didn't hear about that. I only got the brunt of the info while I was working so I hadn't been able to sit down and watch or read through the live letter info. Thanks for letting me know! That's neat! :D

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Yay, more coil farming.

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I hadn't actually cared about the mounts for tanks until my DRK got her Kitty Coerul. After that, I decided I NEEDED, not wanted, but NEEDED the rest of the mounts lol. I'm a few runs short for war left so I thin I can do it by tuesday with as many WT runs I can do in a day xD I'd be excited for new mounts though!

DRK has like 5 aoes for some reason. Like wtf?

Now we are going to spam Dark Arts every 2 seconds and it's going to get tedious doing that and weaving in oGCDs.

DRKs new design is stupid and the only good thing we got out of it was Bloodsplitter.

After 3 years Im putting my Axe down as Warrior. I get it that War is a self heal based class with more dmg output but nerfing us so we cant use it anymore? I wont complain about Pld like i said in many forums they deserved that love. But Drk and War deserved a bit more too, its like pld is now the WOW effect and drk and war a meh... Effect.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

So.. a big chunck of Tanks and Healers i know are going to switch Dps. And no Not only because of Sam and Redmage, but also because of other DPS jobs wich got nice visual and skill upgrades.

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And this is going to be a problem for whom? The people switching to a Dps job? Sounds like a self-inflicted problem for them.
If Dps is going to get long queues then that is incentive for them to play tank or healer instead.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

And this is going to be a problem for whom? The people switching to a Dps job? Sounds like a self-inflicted problem for them.
If Dps is going to get long queues then that is incentive for them to play tank or healer instead.

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Except this is exactly the situation YoshiP doesn't want.

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DS: Considering that there won’t be a new tank or healer job in Stormblood, are you thinking of any measure to encourage players to play tanks and healers as much as possible, to balance the large influx of those covering DPS roles?

NY: We don’t want to force people to transition into those roles. Yet, for those who already like to play a tank or a healer, we’ll prepare more content encouraging players to play those roles. This is the direction that we’d like to take, as we don’t want to force DPS players to play tanks of healers if they don’t want to.

Looking at it from a role balance perspective, our data shows that the percentage of players who prefer tanks is about 22%, while healers are at 21%. Of course, ideally it would be nice if it was closer to 25% for each of those roles, but it’s still very close to that, so we feel that there is no point in trying to force people into doing something they don’t enjoy.

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http://www.dualshockers.com/final-fa...ments-paladin/

I've been tanking as WAR since the release of 2.0 but it's time to leave it behind. The amount of utilities warrior lost almost kill their identity entirely. I love that we can Fell Cleave for big damage but we also have to balance it out with keeping our 20% heal bonus or save it for Inner Beast, now we lost Bloodbath, Storm's Path, Berserk nerfed. I wasn't going to play Samurai straightaway but that's my only choice now, I'm not touching tank job for a while, I'll take the long que anyday over this 4.0 WAR.

And here I am trying to figure out what I should be going as: Dark Knight or Paladin.

Been flip flopping for a bit. I'm leaning Paladin after having done Dark Knight for so longer. Paladin was my first tank class and I feel more comfortable with that class.

No issues with going as a tank for me.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Except this is exactly the situation YoshiP doesn't want.


http://www.dualshockers.com/final-fa...ments-paladin/

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Short of deleting the need for tank and healing are roles I am not exactly sure how they can avoid at least trying to manage roles through incentives. The alternative is either trying to entirely rebuild how the game handles group makeup and balance or just leave dps with long queue times.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Short of deleting the need for tank and healing are roles I am not exactly sure how they can avoid at least trying to manage roles through incentives. The alternative is either trying to entirely rebuild how the game handles group makeup and balance or just leave dps with long queue times.

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Honestly, I think the longer DPS queue is justified. Every time I run roulettes, since I have all 60s, usually I start by asking myself "do I want a fast queue or do I want to be free of most responsibility?". Oftentimes, I choose the latter and find something else to do while sitting through that DPS queue time.

With Stormblood, I want those fast queue times instead, so I'll burden the responsibility as either a tank or a healer. Just have to figure out which one first.....

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Short of deleting the need for tank and healing are roles I am not exactly sure how they can avoid at least trying to manage roles through incentives. The alternative is either trying to entirely rebuild how the game handles group makeup and balance or just leave dps with long queue times.

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Oh, don't get me wrong. I totally agree with you. The problem is, Yoshi P doesn't seem to think healers and tanks like to play/try out new jobs too and that throwing mounts at tanks will magically fix the problem. As far as I know, healers aren't getting much incentives to stay healers and while AST is certainly going to see its player base grow, a lot of SCH and WHM seem unhappy with their changes and are talking about switching roles. I can't really speak for tanks as I don't play mine aside from leveling them =p

As far as I can see, not a single DPS player in my guild, nor in any of the guilds I know (and we have a HUGE raid community) is switching to a tank or healer for Stormblood. However, we are losing roughly half of our tanks and about 1/4 to 1/3 of players to the new DPS classes. Of course not ALL of them are going to stay, but some are.

There is ZERO incentive outside of queue times to be healer or tank in normal everyday content in SB over picking a DPS player. There is zero new reason to switch, 2 healers and 2 tanks got actually conceivably nerfed and its all over the forums if someone cares to look it up. But there is 2 big incentives to go DPS.

So I dont think the idea that tanks and healers will soon go back to being just that, and the total mix isnt going to change, is gonna fly this time. It may not get MUCH worse, but it WILL get worse.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

So I dont think the idea that tanks and healers will soon go back to being just that, and the total mix isnt going to change, is gonna fly this time. It may not get MUCH worse, but it WILL get worse.

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We will see. But given the only trend we've seen in Final Fantasy XIV, that people won't switch role completely to tank or healer just because a cool job is in that role, we could extrapolate that to mean the opposite as well. If people want to tank or heal, they will tank and/or heal.

Problem as I see it is just because new tanks and healers didn't attract DPS players over doesn't automatically mean that tanks and healers will stay as tanks and healers when no new jobs are being offered. Indeed, feedback so far seems to indicate that a lot wont.

Guess they'll have info on that for 5.0

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Problem as I see it is just because new tanks and healers didn't attract DPS players over doesn't automatically mean that tanks and healers will stay as tanks and healers when no new jobs are being offered. Indeed, feedback so far seems to indicate that a lot wont.

Guess they'll have info on that for 5.0

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i think the problem is not that they don't get a new tank or healer class, but that the existing tanks and healers lose a lot of tools and don't really get something exciting new in return. plus the balancing between the tanks and healers seems horrible with PLD and AST extremely overbuffed.
in 3.0 we didn't lost ALL the Tanks and Healers to DRK and AST - okay, AST was undertuned... however, i remember that WAR and SCH and to some degree WHM were really happy with their new toys. but now? WAR, DRK, SCH and WHM all are getting the short end of the stick >.>

Don't worry, everyone! Yoshi P said that players tend to stick to their roles, so everything will be FINE!

Pfffff, sorry, couldn't keep a straight face. XD

Queue will be longer for DPS players, but this will only last for the first few months. I think around 4.1, we will see the players who play their tanks and healers go back to those classes. Most of the new Red Mages and Samurai's are going to be played dps players, so they will only swap one dps for another.

Level 50-60 queue will be very slow and 60-70 might be a bit slower then usual aswell, but this will only last few weeks - couple of months. If we do have a big shortage of tanks and healers, then I think SE will introduce something to encourage players to play those roles.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

If we do have a big shortage of tanks and healers, then I think SE will introduce something to encourage players to play those roles.

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Inb4 they pull a league of legends and implement "auto-fill" somehow.

"It will just last a few months" as an argument is showing such an obvious ignorance about todays gaming market and competitors, its baffling. Every expansion release for any MMO ever has been a test. There have been expansions that vastly grew their games, and expansions that killed them (looking at you, SWG) in no time flat.

If there are massive DPS queues for a few months, meaning during the time when returners and new players check out the game, just to find they will be waiting 30-60 minutes in order to progress through dungeons they NEED to do, this will hurt, A LOT.

And it will be blamed on the game, reviews everywhere will say the game has massive wait times (even though technically its just for DPS classes, who are, DRK aside, pretty much the coolest designs so far), people will flame, whine, demand changes, quit, and be generally toxic because they will lose hours of their gameplay time to this.

Within days, with 45 min wait queues, there will be posts demanding you take out instanced zones, pressure to reduce the number of needed healers/tanks in 8-mans or increase DPS slots in 4-mans, and this will NOT even out in the long run, because it NEVER has been the case in the historiy of MMOs. Bad launches stay with you forever, as ESPECIALLY FFXIV should show.

I've mained DRK since half-way through 3.x, but I've already decided to pick up my bow again and go back to BRD for Stormblood. I will certainly level all the classes eventually, but neither a tank nor a healer will be first. Likewise, I know my FC's other tank is also much less interested in continuing as WAR. One of our dedicated healers (a WHM) has already said that he's probably not going to play that class anymore.

Saving grace is having enough friends to play with to make pre-mades, but I definitely feel bad for any new players coming in as DPS. While I doubt it will be game-breaking, it's not gonna be fun either.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

If there are massive DPS queues for a few months, meaning during the time when returners and new players check out the game, just to find they will be waiting 30-60 minutes in order to progress through dungeons they NEED to do, this will hurt, A LOT.

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Seriously doubtful it lasts a few months. DPS are only doing the dungeons for the MSQ one time, then they can do quests, FATEs, PotD, Hunt Bills, PvP for XP.

I'm going to level every job so I'm going to play the DPS ones but after leveling I'll end up always healing or tanking at Level Cap which is what happened in HW.

Personally i mained tank since 2.x, first PLD then DRK when it came out, and i'm gonna be going full SAM in stormblood, but not because of any changes or anything, purely out of spite.

When they said "well, you know tanks tended to continue tanking (ignoring that tanks GOT a new tank) and healers continued healing (ignoring that healers GOT a new healer) in HW, so we dont forsee a problem with queues and such"

All i heard is "meh, we couldn't be bothered, the monkies will dance and sustain queue times for us either way, so we're just gonna charge them exactly the same amount for less content within their roles! screw those dumb losers right?!? DPS party wooh!"



And yes i know that's an extreme radicalization of what was being said, but that's how 'I' heard it, chalk it up to my ADHD.

So no, Yoshi-P i'm not gonna be your monkey, i wouldn't even play this game anymore if my friend didn't threaten to buy me stormblood and gametime if i tried quitting, i loved everything about HW i even changed main to DRK even though i knew it was the worst tank in 3.0 because it was new and refreshing, but going forward, you can be your own god damn monkey and fill tank queues for the people. I'll be SAM'ing my way through potd and when i level all my tanks to 70 it wil lbe in potd or with friends, sorry to everyone who potentially has to wait longer because of me and people like me, but this is us taking a stand.

A tank main will play tanks and be a tank main, so let's not give that tank main more tanks to play with even though they pay the same as DPS mains = Logic

I like to use a restaurant metaphore; you and 2 friends go to the same restaurant for years, you get fish, chicken, and beef respectively, one day the chef says he can add another awesome dish of each type for a one time fee and he'll keep improving the style for each type as well over the next 2 years.
You love the food so you're fine with that and it's on the menu and the recipe evolves over time.
Now fast forward 2 years and the chef comes out again and says he's gonna add, not just one, but TWO fish dishes, but we all have to pay the fee even though chicken and beef guy dont like fish, if we dont, our dishes will never evolve again, but he says he will sprinkle some new seasoning on the current dishes, some you might like, some not (and apparently piss on one chicken dish (WHM) he's a weird chef, but i'm digressing), so as happy as chicken and beef guys are for their fish friend, dont you think they feel a bit f***ed over?

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Originally Posted by Rizvu

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(english is not my main language so sorry)

To take your exemple:

But the chicken and beef guys got new things 2 years agos,and fish dude got nothing,and feeled f*** himself?


You seem to forget that heavensward added 1 tank,1 healer,and 1 ranged physical dps.
Physical dps and casters got nothing.

With this expansion they added the missings roles (physical dps and caster) so,now that all jobs are done,maybe next expansion you could see a new tank added

I agree that yoshi chosed his words poorly ,but it don't mean they will not add tank/healers in future expansions.

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Originally Posted by Lokranas

(english is not my main language so sorry)

To take your exemple:

But the chicken and beef guys got new things 2 years agos,and fish dude got nothing,and feeled f*** himself?


You seem to forget that heavensward added 1 tank,1 healer,and 1 ranged physical dps.
Physical dps and casters got nothing.
With this expansion they added the missings roles (physical dps and caster) so,now that all jobs are done,maybe next expansion you could see a new tank added

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inb4 "You can't separate DPS into categories of DPS!"

Sorry love, XIV itself already did. Look at the revamped character window and role skills, separated into "Tank", "Healer", "Melee", "Ranged", and "Caster".

We got a Tank, Healer, and Ranged in 3.0. Getting a Melee and Caster evens it all out for 4.0.

EDIT: This wasn't a response to the quote, just a good quote to use to spring into my post.

these threads come up every expansion, its comical

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

"It will just last a few months" as an argument is showing such an obvious ignorance about todays gaming market and competitors, its baffling. Every expansion release for any MMO ever has been a test. There have been expansions that vastly grew their games, and expansions that killed them (looking at you, SWG) in no time flat.

If there are massive DPS queues for a few months, meaning during the time when returners and new players check out the game, just to find they will be waiting 30-60 minutes in order to progress through dungeons they NEED to do, this will hurt, A LOT.

And it will be blamed on the game, reviews everywhere will say the game has massive wait times (even though technically its just for DPS classes, who are, DRK aside, pretty much the coolest designs so far), people will flame, whine, demand changes, quit, and be generally toxic because they will lose hours of their gameplay time to this.

Within days, with 45 min wait queues, there will be posts demanding you take out instanced zones, pressure to reduce the number of needed healers/tanks in 8-mans or increase DPS slots in 4-mans, and this will NOT even out in the long run, because it NEVER has been the case in the historiy of MMOs. Bad launches stay with you forever, as ESPECIALLY FFXIV should show.

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Woosh! Wow, saving this post.

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Originally Posted by Lokranas

Snipperoonie.

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I mean, yeah that's a fair point, but let me try and put this in my perspective and yours;

Mine; DPS is split into subcategories, same with healers and tanks; tanks are either mitigators, offtanks or a mix of both, healers are prevention based and reaction based. dps; ranged, caster, melee right? so you could be condescending and say "inb4 "you can't separate DPS into categories of DPS" " but that's still the case. What does a tank do? he tanks, what does a healer do? he heals, what does a caster do? DPS, what does a melee do? DPS, what does a ranged physical do? DPS.
It's separated into subcategories because what type of DPS they do is relevant, but the overall theme is still; tank, healer, DPS.

Yours; subcategories count! okay so now we've balanced the numbers right? we got 3 tanks, cool! we got 3 healers, cool! we got 3 casters, cool! we got 2 ranged physical, cooool...? and we got 4 melee, wait what?

Maybe they'll change NIN into like Genji from overwatch, a shuriken-throwing ranged physical, that would even out the numbers <_<

Yeah,in the end we will have 4 melee dps,but what? we are not talking about number balance,but new things to play for roles who got nothing new until now?
Or do you suggest for the sake of number balance, to square enix to add only 1 new job next expansion,a physical ranged?(but in that case don't cry if you still don't have new tank^^)

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

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Could not agree more to this. IF .. and i really mean IF this addon fails to deliver because of predictions based on Heavensward wich had very different circumstances, (New jobs were 20 levels away from ne contenct and underpowered, the new ones are only 10 levels away and now we have Palace of the Dead for easy leveling to 60) this will stay with the Game forever. We all know how fast bad news spread since people are just waiting for them. I WANT this Game to stay successfull for a long time...

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Originally Posted by Lokranas

(english is not my main language so sorry)

To take your exemple:

But the chicken and beef guys got new things 2 years agos,and fish dude got nothing,and feeled f*** himself?


You seem to forget that heavensward added 1 tank,1 healer,and 1 ranged physical dps.
Physical dps and casters got nothing.

With this expansion they added the missings roles (physical dps and caster) so,now that all jobs are done,maybe next expansion you could see a new tank added

I agree that yoshi chosed his words poorly ,but it don't mean they will not add tank/healers in future expansions.

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missing roles?
They took away PGL tanks, CNJ caster DPS, and THM healers in 1.0 (-1tank, -1caster, -1healer) (I also dont count sentinel as a class really)
Then they added a healer and caster wtih ACN. (-1tank, neutral on caster/healer)
Then they added a melee. (-1tank, +1melee)
Then they added tank, healer, ranger (+1healer, +1melee, +1ranger)

so technically they will be up 2 melee, a caster, ranger, and healer. (by the logic of "who's turn it should be")
Or simplified as -1tank, +1melee.

(not that SAM and RDM arent great DPS adds the game needed, just that this is how the logic worked out.)

EDIT: also, I personally dont think we should separate DPS based on their playstyles in this manner, when deciding which roles to add.
I agree they are different, and people will want to stick to certain playstyles, such as ranged w/o casts, ranged with casts, pet job, melee job, quick, slow, dots, non dots, burst, sustain, etc.
but why are we doing this only to DPS?
We dont have non caster ranged healers.
We dont have melee healers.
We dont have Caster tanks
We dont have ranged tanks.

And we dont have DoT tanks.

So on, and so forth.
(Trust me, im still waiting for my melee healer, and my friend is dieing to play a caster tank in an MMO for once.)

So its a bit unfair to claim its the DPS who are missing out, and not the other roles by this logic.
Either we add a new job based on its role, or we add a job based on its missing playstyle. (regardless of role)

Not this vague biased version.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

inb4 "You can't separate DPS into categories of DPS!"

Sorry love, XIV itself already did. Look at the revamped character window and role skills, separated into "Tank", "Healer", "Melee", "Ranged", and "Caster".

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The distinction might mean something if dungeon queues called for a tank, a healer, a melee, a ranged and a caster. But they don't.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

The distinction might mean something if dungeon queues called for a tank, a healer, a melee, a ranged and a caster. But they don't.

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Doesn't Feast do that on some level? One tank, one healer, one melee, one ranged (either physical ranged or caster) all for the sake of a relatively even playing field.....or some nonsense like that.

Although I don't think it should be done for dungeons, it's possible that they could do it knowing that they have the tech to limit group entry the same way they do it with Feast.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

The distinction might mean something if dungeon queues called for a tank, a healer, a melee, a ranged and a caster. But they don't.

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Humorously enough the algorithm tries to match it that way, at least as far as I've been told.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

inb4 "You can't separate DPS into categories of DPS!"

Sorry love, XIV itself already did. Look at the revamped character window and role skills, separated into "Tank", "Healer", "Melee", "Ranged", and "Caster".

We got a Tank, Healer, and Ranged in 3.0. Getting a Melee and Caster evens it all out for 4.0.

EDIT: This wasn't a response to the quote, just a good quote to use to spring into my post.

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You know, they just might do that. Duty content that requires 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 ranged and 1 melee. Maybe more/all duties in V4.0 will be 8-man content.


The easiest fix, and I say this as oversimplification, instead of having the player pick a role, and then pick what to play, reverse it. Pick the duty, and whatever role you have has the lowest queue, highlight that as #1 recommendation, and whatever role you are currently in highlight the current queue time. Literately give the player the opportunity to switch, or queue multiple roles before committing to the queue time. Except for the Duty Roulette, (which is basically "give me whatever".) Part of this obviously exists because the system goes "Tank needed" or "Healer needed" when looking at the roulette.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Humorously enough the algorithm tries to match it that way, at least as far as I've been told.

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I've been told the same thing, never seen any evidence for it though.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Seriously doubtful it lasts a few months. DPS are only doing the dungeons for the MSQ one time, then they can do quests, FATEs, PotD, Hunt Bills, PvP for XP.

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u

Are you for real? Didnt see thst the in need for this dungeon are dps.no one did fates after 51 for exp in hw.there will be no gopod exp in potd from 60 to 70 in 4.0 at last.