[Tanks/Healers]: Are you disappointed there is no new job in 4.0?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

The thing is that I don't see them drastically changing AST because they want it to be able to fill both roles in the existing meta. The only way to make balancing that work is to either alter the meta itself or try and tie it down to a particular place. Or make all the Jobs good at doing everything which would end up making them feel even more similar.

---

They kinda backed themselves into a corner and we got AST, a WHM with SCH shields as a result. It was hardly new when introduced and devs trying to smash it into the meta ended in it being broken now. AST's playstyle and how its been handled are pretty much why I don't think it'd be a good idea to introduce a new healer atm. I don't really want another job thats a repainted existing job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altena

Goad and enmity control is a thing. Not to mention enhancing the party's burst damage with Trick.
Goad is TP regen for everyone else ASIDE from the ninja.. That alone should show you how selfless of a class they are meant to be.
As for Enmity control - they allow the tanks to push out more damage by dropping enmity stances and combos in favour of damage, with both Shadewalker and Smokescreen.

---

Trick increases their own damage too and is a normal part of their rotation. Having Litany and Disembowel doesn't suddenly make DRG any less of a "heavy melee dps". Goad and Shadewalker are nice, but are off the GCD and don't impact the ninja's dps in the slightest so I'm not sure why those would put melee players off from the job. Personally I love DRG and MNK but not ninja, and my reasoning for that is I hate how mudras clip the GCD--not the extra utility that lets them lock in 1 of the 2 melee slots in a raid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altena

In all honesty, your statement earlier about PLD being "different" to WAR and DRK..

They really just aren't..

They are literally the same base class with some sort of mechanic overlayed over the top of it.

---

I do hope you realize that by going on about this like you are, you're single-handedly destroying your own previous argument right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altena

Because Tanks and Healers just got their new shiny in the current running expac..

---

By your own admission, Tanks really didn't get a new shiny because the new tank job added is copy paste. All the tank players who didn't want Paladin 2.0 have still gotten nothing. Just like DPS players who prefer a different experience in their DPS role (i.e. you breaking down DPS into multiple subcategories, when realistically after Heavensward it's either Melee, or Caster.) What about people who want to tank but just don't like the current tanks? Or want a difference in playstyle inside their preferred role?

If you can break DPS down into sub roles, then Tanks and Healers can be too, which means there's plenty of those demographics that have gotten nothing either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Llus

I actually think a hammer wielding tank would be a great idea. Synergy with MNK would improve since hammer = blunt damage

---

This alone won't fix MNK's problems. You gain Synergy with monk, but lose the synergy that now 5 other jobs share. All 3 tanks and now 2 DPS jobs use Slashing damage. All introducing a Blunt damage tank will do is basically make a tank that is less desirable from the get-go for party compositions.

The better choice is to remove blunt/slash/pierce etc. damage types altogether. Then it doesn't matter. But implementing a whole other job just to make MNK more viable is not how you fix a job.

I think it's safe to break DPS down into three groups, really - melee, magical ranged, and physical ranged. Maybe if RDM adds significant "magical melee" gameplay to their arsenal we'll have four subgroups, but for now I think that's the easiest way to approach it. HW added a "physical ranged" DPS, so SB is adding a "melee" DPS and a "magical ranged" DPS (assuming RDM's melee aspect is just some weird gimmick and not a core aspect of their gameplay).

Maybe the intention was to balance out the options for those three subgroups, or maybe the intention really IS to seriously work on how new tanking and healing jobs are conceptualized and designed before adding any more to our meta. Either way, it's what we're being given, so at this point there's not much point in bickering over it. That said, I can't wait for the endless forum riots if the next two jobs in 5.0 are something odd like a new DPS and a new healer (but no new tank), or a new DPS and a new tank (but no new healer). Or, heaven forfend, if the devs don't add any new jobs at ALL, citing that they want to work on making a broader variety of multitudinous types of content for people to enjoy instead of just tomestone roulettes and 8-man raids. It doesn't matter that stuff like this is standard for other MMOs, the forum rage will be palpable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Because Astro is a mix between White Mage and Scholar, its cards are totally RNG, DPS is not interesting at all compared to the two others jobs, and the concept of the Balance destroy the other cards in some way.
In fact, it's lack identity.

---

I cannot disagree with you more. As a main AST, IMO, all the cards are useful. His DPS is very good, I never had problems with It. And if you're a good AST you know what todo with every Card, winning RNG.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

So by that logic NIN is similar to BRD? O.o

This is my point. People seem to be trying to divide DPS into a dozen different sub roles to justify there being two dps. There is one logical reason and one alone why we aren't having a tank and healer. They could only make two jobs and tanks and healers missed out this time. Beyond that it starts to get ridiculous. Next you will be dividing them up by the type of damage they do to justify it. Hell with the stats NIN and BRD/MCH and MNK and DRG don't share gear beyond accessories so why the hell does primary stats matter?

---

Yes, NIN is similar to BRD. They are a support mele role; smokescreen, shadewalker, trick attack, goad, jugulate, dancing edge

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shippuu

This alone won't fix MNK's problems. You gain Synergy with monk, but lose the synergy that now 5 other jobs share. All 3 tanks and now 2 DPS jobs use Slashing damage. All introducing a Blunt damage tank will do is basically make a tank that is less desirable from the get-go for party compositions.

The better choice is to remove blunt/slash/pierce etc. damage types altogether. Then it doesn't matter. But implementing a whole other job just to make MNK more viable is not how you fix a job.

---

I agree. It would be just one more niche comp that people might play but doesn't fix the underlying issue with monk in that it's only raid utility is traited mantra.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

That said, I can't wait for the endless forum riots if the next two jobs in 5.0 are something odd like a new DPS and a new healer (but no new tank), or a new DPS and a new tank (but no new healer).

---

I believe 5 will be adding 2 new tanks and 6 will be adding 2 new healers (4 is the "red" expansion, 5 the "blue", 6 the "green"). Blue Mage, look forward to it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reiryuu

[Tanks/Healers]: Are you disappointed there is no new job in 4.0?

---

I am glad that there will be no new tank or heal jobs.
If anyone has farmed A1s for light, you will know we have too too many tanks and healers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Llus

Yes, NIN is similar to BRD. They are a support mele role; smokescreen, shadewalker, trick attack, goad, jugulate, dancing edge

---

All the melee classes have utility skills. The reason that people feel MNK is underpowered is that its utility is less useful than NIN or DRG. Its dps is perfectly competitive. As you said:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Llus

I agree. It would be just one more niche comp that people might play but doesn't fix the underlying issue with monk in that it's only raid utility is traited mantra.

---

The issue tanking and healing balance have is the meta. Unless SE can rework it to make it more flexible I am extremely sceptical they will successfully balance the tanks and healers and we will end up in the same place in 5.0 that we are now. Unfortunately I am also sceptical that they are actually going to deal with the issues with the meta. I very much hope I am wrong. Balance isn't something we should be lucky to get. It should be the norm, at least to some extent.

It doesn't really help that PLD doesn't really have any mechanic to it. That's the reason DRK is similar to it. Its basically the base combos with a bunch of CDs. Its the most simple Job mechanically in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nicobo

I am glad that there will be no new tank or heal jobs.
If anyone has farmed A1s for light, you will know we have too too many tanks and healers.

---

What queues have you been in? All mine as healer have been instant.

In 1.0 my Main is DRG, when 2.0 arrive i try to level all class to 50 and taste the different, at 2.0 i feel all the job are in quite well balance, once 3.0 hit, actually I shift my main class to AST and MCH, but at that time it was not that interesting, MCH feel like a BRD clone, and AST feel like a weaker version of WHM and SCH hybrid
after so many patch, what dev done was just buff this nerf that, the basic have never change
so when i hear the news about 4.0, I m hoping they rework most of the class, giving each class some uniqueness, especially those added during 3.0, rather than give another expansion with clone

and to be honest, I am glad no more new healer class is added, i found getting my WHM to 60 is way more painful (boring) than AST, and SCH, I do not wish for new heal class until they give identity to each heal class, and I dont even feel the need of more than new class for expansion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shippuu

The better choice is to remove blunt/slash/pierce etc. damage types altogether. Then it doesn't matter.

---

Oh man... I really hope this happens. I've been speculating it ever since Yoshi said RDM will just do physical and didn't mention piercing, if RDM does use piercing it will just be so gimmicky along with magic damage. We'll get RDM's demanding BRD's and DRG's... D:

To answer the OP's question. I was disappointed and really wanted SAM to be a Tank... but I'm already over it. It's not like us Tank and Healer mains can't enjoy the new jobs, their still there and available for us to play. But it will definitively impact the queues and your a lair or a fool if you think otherwise, it won't last forever but it will be there for sure.

Regardless I'm really excited to see the balancing they do to Tanks and Healers and how they will make the current ones more appealing. I'm also really looking forward to the new Tank/Healer in 5.0! Even though it's like another 2-3 years away... I've mentioned in another thread but I would really like to see either a Warhammer Tank or a Dual Wielding Tank. Leaning more on Dual Wielding Tank as I think that would be really unique and maybe make it a Tank that has high speed like MNK/NIN. Hoping for it to be either Blue Mage or Mystic Knight garbed in Heavy Arabian/Desert themed armor. A Tank can dream! :o

However! I am worried... Yoshi's logic to not adding a new Tank and Healer is really concerning. But honestly he's probably just being dishonest and really just wanted his ideal Samurai to come to life.. It's still worrying though. Maybe we'll get more of his opinion in interviews to come.

more disapointed by no adding a new tank/healer im more disapointed about yoshi faith to keep us in the role with the promise of a balance they dont complete yet and using that excuse to add 2 extremly popular jobs to the DPS.

im pretty worry about that extreme effort on that "balance"in our roles, now by default the population of healers and tanks go to get down, the question is ¿how many? all depend now of that balance, ¿what they go to do? change the meta and the jobs a bit to force us to face our natural weaknes and make a balance between our strengh and utilitys?, keep this break meat and buff a lot the jobs how are laking keeping the racing of how do more dps or how offer more dps to the team? we all go to have unlimited resourses to manage like WAR, SCH and AST or we go to our origins and make utility and help to the party to generate more resourse with our supports skills more important to just burn all? in other words more tactics on DPS skills aka BRD/MCH.

i cant make a judment and wait until they reveal more info, i stay main tanking, but i play multiple roles and i want to try SAM like my second one when i want to take some fresh air of tanking, better they do it extremly well to justify this move.

Not really... I would still main my SCH. If there were a new healer added I would level it just as I did WHM and AST, but nothing more than that.

I was really disappointed tha Samurai was not a tank, but based on the theme of the expansion. I can understand why it was decided to be DPS. Right now I am hoping for a Shogun Tank job in the future that Yoshida Mentoned, and going forward, I feel that it is possible to implement an Orignal Job like Shogun sometime in the future. As long as there is conflect and the east is involved in it in some way still.

I think jobs in this game should classified like this.
http://i.imgur.com/uAwvRUl.jpg

5 main stats, 7 types.

STR jobs are attack based jobs and seperate to 2 types; heavy armor and light armor.

DEX jobs are support based DPS who have various party support/utility and resources regen. And same as STR, they seperate to 2 types; melee and ranged. NIN have vulnerability like BRD/MCH, Goad for regen party member TP and enmity ulity same as BRD get peon and MCH have dismantle/rend mind. These are share characteristics of DEX jobs.

If we group the jobs like this, you will see balance in it.

Disappointed but not at all surprised. For now I'm perfectly happy to accept the reasoning they gave. I do worry however that they've designed themselves into a corner with the tank and healer roles, and it will be very no bueno if we only get more excuses (and at that point they will be excuses) and don't see a new tank and healer next go around.

As a Warrior main (not with this toon), the answer is both yes and now.

Yes because if Samurai was going to be tank, I would've bought the expansion on day one, as I play alone and tank allows me to play at my own leisure without relying on others. Plus it's easy to tank in this game!

No because I still have the warrior which is probably the best all round tank with great dps and great tanking abilities. I just won't buy the game on day one though because of their huge mistake during 3.0 and because nothing that they announced interests me.

I just liked the idea of Shogun and duel wielding swords as a tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altena

In all honesty, your statement earlier about PLD being "different" to WAR and DRK..

They really just aren't..

---

Actually, I'd like to point out how this is wrong and why PLD and WHM currently suffer the most for being different.

A PLD brings heavy mitigation to the raid, but mainly deals in physical mitigation.
A WHM brings heavy healing output, AoE and single alike.

However, the content is balanced and focused around bringing any job and composition into a fight. Most of the player base is merely concerned with pushing out as much DPS as possible (again, keep in mind that all content is balanced around any composition, with Yoshi having even said nothing requires healers to DPS to complete it while specifically mentioning savage).

Unfortunately, PLD lacks in DPS in comparison to WAR and DRK. Even though SE has said they will not design fights that require specific roles [anymore], they went out to create Alexander 12 Savage. Bringing a PLD actually leaves them with not enough cooldowns for magic damage and they will eat Punishing Heat raw somewhere in the fight. Please, do not confuse this with doing things to specifically by-pass mechanics as they are intended. I know many do not like warrior to MT on Zurvan EX because the timing for Holmgang on Demon Claw/ Wave Cannon is tight (it's not impossible, just very, very, VERY tight). However, the intended mechanic is not dissimilar to Ser Zephirin's javelin in Thordan's Reign, minus the raid wipe on a death from a single person.

The same mentality to applied to WHM via the community. There is no need for heavy healing and being more difficult to sustain DPS (possible, not as impossible as people claim it to be) and lacking the raid utility of AST (read: number bloating from cards), it has lost it's place in the meta. Meanwhile, SCH's place is secured having a companion with infinite MP and easy MP management, even though it has the least DPS output of the three healers. Oddly enough, double AST is a thing because, again, all of the content was created around being able to bring anything (AST in regen or shield stance).

This is all the more evident in this current raid tier. There is also no point for them to fix it and may be watching and weighing what needs to be fixed and where for Stormblood (hopefully). While I enjoy each job being specialized, in PLD and WHM's cases, their specializations have been deemed unneeded (and this same stigma has been passed onto MNK for, again, lack of DAMAGE raid utility).

If we're simply looking at what skill does what, yes, the classes are the same in the case of tanks and healers. Of course they need similar skills to fulfill the same role- this is called a kit. However, the application in the meta is what makes all the difference.

No, I was actually telling my friends that it'd be odd if they'd add again one tank and heal as the ratio heal/tank vs dps job would get weird considering 80% of the player base play dps.
At first we thought they'd add 3 jobs and i was rather sure that if they were to add 3, it would probably be 2 dps 1 heal. As tank is the least popular job and that, imo, there was still room for unique healing gameplay. (Like, heavy focus on HoTs like the resto druids from WoW).


My current feeling is that Astro and White Mage currently like gameplay identity. They lack interesting unique skills or, as I like to call it, they lack flavor. They're a tasteless.
Sure the Astro has the card (I main astro btw) and the WHM has tons of healing tool but... In the end, the White Mage toolkit is rather boring. There are no exciting and unique spells in his arsenal.
The Whm and Astro playstyle could be summed as "Heal, big heal, bigger heal, aoe heal, big aoe heal". Yes there are the cards and some fun skill like Synastry, Essential Dignity, Assize but that's it.

I've played healer on many mmo and Scholar is pretty much the only interesting one in this game (uniqueness of the gameplay). The two other are vey mainstream in their playstyle and if you main White Mage, it doesn't take much time for you to get your hand on the Astro and vice versa.

So, instead of adding another healer, I'd rather them make the current one more unique with better identity. I wouldn't say "fix" them as, even though they're extremely mainstream, they stay effective.
The Astro toolkit is borderline brain dead (heal, heal2, aoeheal, aoeheal2, instant heal) but it stays effective nonetheless.

In short, I hope they'll give the WHM and Astro unique healing mechanic like Eatherflux from the Scholar. Something core to the healing style of the job. Card are a core element of the job, but it doesn't change how you heal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylvain

No, I was actually telling my friends that it'd be odd if they'd add again one tank and heal as the ratio heal/tank vs dps job would get weird considering 80% of the player base play dps.

---

Y'know, except for the fact the numbers last shown are 23% Healers, 21% tanks, and 55% DPS players. Please do tell where you pulled 80% out of your ass. By not adding a new tank and healer job, they've basically ignored close to 50% of their player base, and that 50% are people who play roles that are more in-demand than DPS by a longshot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shippuu

Y'know, except for the fact the numbers last shown are 23% Healers, 21% tanks, and 55% DPS players. Please do tell where you pulled 80% out of your ass. By not adding a new tank and healer job, they've basically ignored close to 50% of their player base, and that 50% are people who play roles that are more in-demand than DPS by a longshot.

---

If healers are only 2% more then tanks then people who play healers must be more active because I haven't seen DF give out bonuses for Healers since Heavensward started. It's rigged I tell you, RIGGGGGGGEEDDDD.

Not disappointed at all, our roles as healers or tanks will be even more required and demanded as lots of players will love to try out the new dps jobs

Im not dissappointed, I dont limit myself to one role, I often switch between expansions and sometimes patches. I originally was a WHM main until halfway through the ARR patches, where I then switched to MNK, and then I switched to AST, and can possibly see myself switching to BRD or even SAM.

Yes i am. I got the good from it and all but i am not happt.

I have said since 2.X that I would immediately main SAM if it ever came out, regardless of it's role. I picked up WAR to get accustomed to tanking, so I'm somewhat relieved that SAM isn't a tank job, as sensible as it would be. I've come too far with DRG to just throw it away though, so I will at least keep it geared and learn the level 70 rotation.

HOWEVER, I do think it's for the best the way things turned out. The only thing a SAM tank would have done is put DRK out of a job as WAR/SAM would be the hot new comp. I like PLD aesthetically, but damn if it isn't boring as sin to level. It's real telling that all of the tank mains (who have all tanks at 60) I know have encouraged me to drop PLD as soon as I get awareness. Rework the tanks first, make all 3 equally viable, then we can talk about adding new tanks.

Likewise, there probably won't be a DPS in 5.0 and that's ok.

I'm sure a lot of healers and tanks are ready to become rare unicorn demi-gods as my fellow DPS experience the struggle™ in queue.

Yes, I'm 200% disapointed to see I'm stuck with the same old gameplay for at least 2 yeasr to come -_-

No cause I like how Paladin plays wouldn't switch to a new main.

i main DPS with a tank as 2nd and i was really really hoping that we did get Dancer as a healer class. It's actually one that i thought could have been really interesting and may have actually been enough for me to switch to it as my second or maybe even my main

Very much so.

Initially I was worried about the Q's. Then I thought about the balance and realized they've added a job so far now for all the different roles. Tank, Ranged Physical DPS and Healer introduced in HW and now Caster DPS and Melee DPS in SB. Every distinct role has gotten an additional job now, so it balances out well enough again in the long run. Besides, I'm just incredibly happy we get another melee DPS as that is my preferred role. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Actually, I'd like to point out how this is wrong and why PLD and WHM currently suffer the most for being different.

A PLD brings heavy mitigation to the raid, but mainly deals in physical mitigation.
A WHM brings heavy healing output, AoE and single alike.

---

Eh? If you actually read my post properly you would already see that I pointed out their skills have different mitigation types and percentage values.

However my core point remains the same, much like the core fundamentals of the three tank classes (and in retrospect the same goes for the three healers, with SCH having a bit of a unique thing going for it as it's based on a DPS class).
They are the same base class in terms of how they function, with some mechanic tacked onto the top of them to make them seem different.
Yes PLD focuses heavily on physical mitigation and DRK focuses on Magic. However this difference is literally 1 or 2 skills..

DRK has one... Yes one skill that makes people say they are the magic damage tank.
PLD has what... Sheltron? I mean you could argue Bulwark there but you could flip that and highlight that DRK also has Dark Dance which is close enough to equivalent.

However this argument isn't even about the fine details of what a job has and doesn't have.

The 3 tanks literally have the same base, with some form of mechanic overlayed over the top. Some might do things better than others, but that doesn't make them inherently different classes. They both achieve similar results, with similar kits.

I can almost gaurentee that a Tank main can play any of the three tank jobs to some level of reasonable success, regardless how little they play the job - due to the obvious similarities. Ask a MNK to jump on MCH? Yeah no.. Sorry but that just won't be very successful.

Quote:

---

However, the content is balanced and focused around bringing any job and composition into a fight. Most of the player base is merely concerned with pushing out as much DPS as possible (again, keep in mind that all content is balanced around any composition, with Yoshi having even said nothing requires healers to DPS to complete it while specifically mentioning savage).

---

I never said they were balanced. I simply said they were the on such a similar level as a base role. Much more similar than a MCH and a DRG.. Which many people claim here.. "DPS is a DPS!"

This is also another glaring reason as to why adding another Tank or Healer to the current meta is just flat out a bad idea. They need to return PLD and WHM to some level of balance (sure, don't have to be a perfect equilibrium) before adding another broken job into the mix on either role.

Quote:

---

If we're simply looking at what skill does what, yes, the classes are the same in the case of tanks and healers. Of course they need similar skills to fulfill the same role- this is called a kit. However, the application in the meta is what makes all the difference.

---

I cut a bunch of stuff from your post because it was rather irrelevant. Hope you don't mind.

I mean, are you not agreeing with me here then? Because it really seems like you are..

Of course they have a similar skill set, and of course they fill the same role. That is not even remotely what I am saying..

My point here is that a MCH is very different from a MNK and DRG, because they flat out don't fill the same role as many people claim. This is such a primary argument for the Tank and Healer only players that are so butthurt.

So many people are saying "DPS got MCH in HW!" (wow all them abbreviations).. So Tank and Healers are left out in the cold! It's so unfair. Wah wah..

My point is that DPS are very different from one another, and the stigma that people have of putting all DPS under one role heading is flat out wrong and a very close minded way of looking at it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shippuu

I do hope you realize that by going on about this like you are, you're single-handedly destroying your own previous argument right?

---

I had to actually highlight this very point twice before someone actually decided to say anything about it. I mean if you read my first post, I heavily hinted that the one major rebuttle here is NIN..

I then flat out stated it in the 2nd one. So yes I do realise this, because I mean... I even highlighted the only real valid arguments against my point.

Quote:

---

By your own admission, Tanks really didn't get a new shiny because the new tank job added is copy paste. All the tank players who didn't want Paladin 2.0 have still gotten nothing. Just like DPS players who prefer a different experience in their DPS role (i.e. you breaking down DPS into multiple subcategories, when realistically after Heavensward it's either Melee, or Caster.) What about people who want to tank but just don't like the current tanks? Or want a difference in playstyle inside their preferred role?

---

As are the melee, as are the phys ranged.. Casters are about the only classes that have some degree of uniqueness to their design.
People are saying that because we got MCH, melee should be perfectly happy and don't need more variety. This is a key argument in so many Tank and Healer only players..
NIN itself was added because this game didn't have a thief/rogue/assassin style class to begin with and it was a large hole in the line up of job choices.

As for MCH being a caster, it really just isn't.. BRD? Sure I will give you that, it cast a cast time despite it not really playing like one. (It's an oGCD whore)..
MCH spends a very large portion of its DPS using the ammo mechanic which practically negates the cast bar anyway.
Ranged compared to a BLM or SMN? Yeah nah.. Still more different than DRK / WAR / PLD... Or WHM / AST / SCH...

Quote:

---

If you can break DPS down into sub roles, then Tanks and Healers can be too, which means there's plenty of those demographics that have gotten nothing either.

---

Sure... If you can tank from range.. Or pull out some melee healers.. I mean there isn't much else to go with Tanks/Healers.. Do you have any ideas that haven't been done? There aren't any categories until there is enough differentiation between them.

Tanks don't have that.
Healers don't have that, at a push you could separate SCH from the other two - but even then, the healing side of SCH is fundamentally the same as the other two.
DPS? Well a ranged is nothing like a melee, and a support is really nothing like a caster..

I'm not, because I feel there needs to be more balancing between the 3 classes in each role. I think PLD and WHM need some fixing before they add anything new....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altena

/snip

---

You know Altena, I have actually forgotten the point you were trying to make to begin with. Tanks/healers shouldn't feel disappointed maybe?

Not that is going to make much difference. People who are disappointed aren't suddenly going to stop being disappointed because you tell them its not there turn. It is disappointing regardless of the logic behind it.

Its also not going to change any balance or queue side effects or lack there off, that result from the lack of new Jobs for Healers or tanks. The reality of the situation is that people are disappointed and we are getting two dps.

Beyond that I will just have to agree to disagree with you. I still find your logic flawed but I am not sure as to the point of arguing over it, at least in regards to this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Please don't kill astro ;-; I like astro, I'm good at astro. I even like doing pvp as astro. ;-;

---

The fact AST was built to mimic WHM and SCH is a huge problem, IMO. To me, that's something worthy of a redesign; "Killing it" might be better than leaving it as is and trying to build off it.

---------------------------------------------

I'm not bothered by the lack per se, but at the reasoning given. This is like their logic for making Au'ra look like hyurs with cosplay bits on them; they're convinced there's more people switching for more of the same and are not taking into account the new people DRK and AST attracted to tanking and healing. Just like how Au'ra were basically an exercise in selling Fantasias instead of using them to attract new people who might not be into the aesthetic of the original 5 races.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altena

Eh? If you actually read my post properly you would already see that I pointed out their skills have different mitigation types and percentage values.

---

You're arguing the semantics about difference and is a waste of time.

I think the jobs will come after not on release just like Ninja dis